Porsche back in to F1?

[Dave B]

It's time for the annual "Porsche back to F1" rumour! Only this time it does appear to have a slim chance:



Porsche is to seriously evaluate a return to Formula 1, its new chairman Matthias Mueller has revealed at the Paris Motor Show on Friday.

Speaking to AUTOSPORT's sister publication Autocar, Mueller said he expected his company's motorsport activities - which encompasses Porsche and Audi through its tie-up with the Volkswagen Group - to include both top-level sportscars and F1 in the near future.

He made it clear that he expected either Porsche or Audi to have an LMP1 car in the future - while the other brand would then enter F1.

Source and full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87103

[i_max2k2]

I hope they are thinking about the 2012 season, and that would be great news, a company that could pour in some serious money would really save us from teams such as HRT.

[steveaki13]

When was the last time Porsche was involved in F1?

[VkmSpouge]

1991 with Footwork. The Footwork-Porsche combination would make Hispania look like high-fliers.

[V12]

They won't be in for 2012, no point in them designing a 2.4 V8 only to junk it after a year, they'll be in for 2013 with the new engine regs, if at all. This rumour should have some credibility though, since up until now VW/Porsche have always taken every opportunity to say that they DON'T want to be in F1. If people within the company (rather than the media) are suggesting it, then it may have some legs.

Glad to see it's likely to be as an engine supplier/partner rather than buying a team and completely taking it over, I think it's the right way to do it. BMW, Renault, Honda have all had more success as works engine suppliers than with their own factory efforts, Porsche ironically being the exception that proves the rule, and even that exception goes away if you include the TAG-branded McLaren engines as Porsches.

Plus more importantly for us fans, it means the teams keep some sort of identity for themselves, rather than becoming departments of a major manufacturer.

Wonder who they'd partner with if they did come? Williams would seem a good fit on paper, although the VW Group have previous with Red Bull in F3 and Dakar-style rallying, so who knows...

[Robinho]

I'll go out on a limb here and make a bold prediction.

Porsche will be back in 2013 as engine partner with Williams, running the Williams Kers system that Porsche use in their GT racers.

you read it here first, please bookmark and point out my awesomosity when this is confirmed! ;)

[Robinho]

although V12 seems to make the same prediction a little before me, D'oh!

[UltimateDanGTR]

hmmm, there has been rumours of porsche going to LMP1 and replacing Audi there for a while now. I wouldnt be at all surprised to see either Audi or Porsche in F1 in 4-5 years (maybe in 2013 as V12 very logically suggests) and this is supported by the article.

We hear rumours about company X possibly to enter Racing Series Y all the time, but I wouldn't be surprised if this one had a slight leg or two for the not too immediate future.

[Koz]

Can someone explain to me why VW would have Porsche rather than Lamborghini?

Even going with Audi makes more sense for WV seeing Mercedes is here.

[maximilian]

My wish would be for Porsche to strike up a partnership with Sauber, a la BMW... the cars being called Porsche-Sauber. But seeing that Sauber may well be sold before then, this may not be in the cards at all. Would be nice if Sauber can hang on until this might happen... well, if it even ever happens at all! :P

Red Bull-Porsche, anyone? That could be pretty awesome ;) But would a top ranking team take a chance on a completely "new" engine constructor?

[Sonic]

Now here's a rumour I can get on board with.

A new manufacturer in their proper role of engine partner.

With so many brands under the ownership of one company it also offers the possibility of a badging exercise and having say, a Williams Porsche and a Red Bull VW with effectively the same engine. Real value for money for the group.

[wedge]

I'll go out on a limb here and make a bold prediction.

Porsche will be back in 2013 as engine partner with Williams, running the Williams Kers system that Porsche use in their GT racers.

you read it here first, please bookmark and point out my awesomosity when this is confirmed! ;)

Many thought the same the same when watching the Nurburgring 24hrs

[jens]

There have been such whispers for some time and I think it is fairly likely that one of VW Group brands (most likely Porsche) will be in F1 from 2013 onwards. In any case, they are the most likely car manufacturer to (re)join F1. And to be honest, I haven't heard even a random rumour about anyone else.

The big question is that with which team they are going to enter in partnership. Most likely the decision will be taken between three - Red Bull, Sauber and Williams. Especially the last two are surely now trying their best to impress and attract the interest of Porsche to try to get out of the midfield stagnation in co-operation with a car manufacturer.

[Dr.Phibes]

Well, we're getting more and more reports in Germany stating that the Porsche LMP1 project is well on its way. So I'll bet my money on Audi in F1 2013, VW in WRC 2013 and Porsche at Le Mans.

[DexDexter]

To me the obvious partner for Porsche would be Mclaren. They've got a customer engine deal with Mercedes so it would make some sense and they've been together before.

[Sonic]

To me the obvious partner for Porsche would be Mclaren. They've got a customer engine deal with Mercedes so it would make some sense and they've been together before.

It fits but for one thing. Ron D's stated desire to develop McLaren along the Ferrari Model - and you don't do that with someone elses engines powering your machines.

[Sleeper]

It fits but for one thing. Ron D's stated desire to develop McLaren along the Ferrari Model - and you don't do that with someone elses engines powering your machines.
So what engine does McLarens new road car have? I wonder if they're remotely willing to spend the money required to build an F1 engine department.

[maximilian]

So what engine does McLarens new road car have? I wonder if they're remotely willing to spend the money required to build an F1 engine department.
"A mid-mounted McLaren M838T 3.8-litre V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine) twin-turbo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-turbo) engine developing appoximately 592 bhp (441 kW; 600 PS) and around 443 lb·ft (601 N·m) of torque" (Wikipedia)

[Valve Bounce]

When was the last time Porsche was involved in F1?

As a manufacturer? a long, long time ago. But I am sure StD will come and tell us.

[Valve Bounce]

Look! seeing no one will tellya, I'll hazard a guess: 1962, although you should realise this is a rough approximation.

[djparky]

I'll go out on a limb here and make a bold prediction.

Porsche will be back in 2013 as engine partner with Williams, running the Williams Kers system that Porsche use in their GT racers.

you read it here first, please bookmark and point out my awesomosity when this is confirmed! ;)

was going to say the same thing! if they can keep him would also be good marketing opportunity with Nico Hulkenberg in the car

[maximilian]

I am not so sure Williams would be the best option. I still think it would make a lot of sense to team up with Sauber, and turn the whole thing into a Porsche-Sauber operation, especially given that Peter Sauber wants to retire anyways, and that it's a really short distance between Hinwil and Stuttgart. I don't think it makes sense to withdraw Audi from endurance racing after establishing them there for a long time now already, so I would think Porsche would be the brand we see in F1.

[Sleeper]

I am not so sure Williams would be the best option. I still think it would make a lot of sense to team up with Sauber, and turn the whole thing into a Porsche-Sauber operation, especially given that Peter Sauber wants to retire anyways, and that it's a really short distance between Hinwil and Stuttgart. I don't think it makes sense to withdraw Audi from endurance racing after establishing them there for a long time now already, so I would think Porsche would be the brand we see in F1.
Though Sauber have brilliant technical resources, they dont have the fiancial ability to match what Porsche wants, certainly not in a way that Williams does (and they're a long way from being the richest team out there), and Porsche being owned by VW probably means they dont wont to bank roll a team to success.

Looking at it like that I'd say that the only realistic potential partners for Porsche are Williams and McLaren.

[Valve Bounce]

Though Sauber have brilliant technical resources, they dont have the fiancial ability to match what Porsche wants, certainly not in a way that Williams does (and they're a long way from being the richest team out there), and Porsche being owned by VW probably means they dont wont to bank roll a team to success.

Looking at it like that I'd say that the only realistic potential partners for Porsche are Williams and McLaren.

What are we talking about here? Porsche coming back to F1 by being a Constructor
or
Porsche paying some Engineering firm in England to make them an engine and badge it as PORSCHE?

Porsche has never been all that successful in F1 so let's not go flying off to jump over the moon here. Dan Gurney did win them a race once!

[Ranger]

What are we talking about here? Porsche coming back to F1 by being a Constructor
or
Porsche paying some Engineering firm in England to make them an engine and badge it as PORSCHE?

Porsche has never been all that successful in F1 so let's not go flying off to jump over the moon here. Dan Gurney did win them a race once!

Ahem:

McLaren-TAG

Seasons: 5 (1983-1987)
Victories: 25
Drivers Titles: 3 ('84, '85, '86)
Constructors Titles: 2 ('84, '85)

The engines were built by Porsche and badged as TAG engines.

...just in case people forgot.

[Valve Bounce]

Ahem:

McLaren-TAG

Seasons: 5 (1983-1987)
Victories: 25
Drivers Titles: 3 ('84, '85, '86)
Constructors Titles: 2 ('84, '85)

The engines were built by Porsche and badged as TAG engines.

...just in case people forgot.

OK! ya got me there, but I still want absolute confirmation from StD!

[Duchess]

I'd like to see a Sauber-Porsche partnership, mostly because I'd hate to see Sauber go down without the chance to put up a good fight. I know losing BMW really took the wind out of their sails at the beginning of the season but no one should write them off just yet. Then again, money's always an issue isn't it? :p :

I suppose it all depends on what Porsche wants to get out of a renewed foray into F1.

[steveaki13]

I'd like to see a Sauber-Porsche partnership, mostly because I'd hate to see Sauber go down without the chance to put up a good fight. I know losing BMW really took the wind out of their sails at the beginning of the season but no one should write them off just yet. Then again, money's always an issue isn't it? :p :

I suppose it all depends on what Porsche wants to get out of a renewed foray into F1.


Welcome to the board Duchess :D

[Valve Bounce]

I'd like to see a Sauber-Porsche partnership, mostly because I'd hate to see Sauber go down without the chance to put up a good fight. I know losing BMW really took the wind out of their sails at the beginning of the season but no one should write them off just yet. Then again, money's always an issue isn't it? :p :

I suppose it all depends on what Porsche wants to get out of a renewed foray into F1.

If Porsche wants to enter F1 properly, they might as well buy Sauber out and have their own team which they can run themselves.

What's wrong with that?

[Sonic]

If Porsche wants to enter F1 properly, they might as well buy Sauber out and have their own team which they can run themselves.

What's wrong with that?

Can. Worms. Open.

[Valve Bounce]

Can. Worms. Open.
If you don't like worms, don't go fishing. :P:

[maximilian]

Though Sauber have brilliant technical resources, they dont have the fiancial ability to match what Porsche wants, certainly not in a way that Williams does (and they're a long way from being the richest team out there), and Porsche being owned by VW probably means they dont wont to bank roll a team to success.

Looking at it like that I'd say that the only realistic potential partners for Porsche are Williams and McLaren.
McLaren won't happen. They are going to build their own engines. I doubt Williams will be the one, given what happened with BMW that eventually made BMW move to Sauber - the same issues will face Porsche. I can envision Porsche taking a controlling interest in Sauber, and supplying RedBull as well.

As for money, Porsche entering will require an infusion of cash, no matter what, so whether the team they partner with has more or less cash doesn't matter as such. They also can't be too cocky, being new returnees to the sport and expect all the top teams to line up before their engine is proven in competition.

[Duchess]

Welcome to the board Duchess :D

LOL thanks! What better way to start at a forum than to jump right in? :laugh:

[V12]

We've only (just about) got rid of the horrible "BMW Sauber" name, so I hope Porsche/VW don't end up doing something similar.

Engine name just come AFTER car name, this isn't Grand-Am.

[Robinho]

Sauber ship has sailed, the Mexicans are coming, they won't be wanting for money for a while now Perez and Slim are onboard, that is a slow run up to a buyout if ever i've seen one.

Williams is the obvious partner, they have the facilities, the history, the personnel and also Williams and Head are looking to move back from the team a little. They have already tied up with Porsche by selling the flywheel KERS to Porsche, so there is a foundation of a technical tie up. They are also not at the moment a top flight team so are more likely to go with an unproven engine.

[jens]

Though Sauber have brilliant technical resources, they dont have the fiancial ability to match what Porsche wants, certainly not in a way that Williams does (and they're a long way from being the richest team out there), and Porsche being owned by VW probably means they dont wont to bank roll a team to success.


Regarding that so-called financial ability, I don't think BMW-Sauber was less funded or technically inferior compared to Williams-BMW. Just perhaps it was the issue of management, which didn't quite enable BMW-Sauber to reach the heights of Williams-BMW, although they seemed to be getting close.

In terms of logistics Sauber sounds a logical choice (with Switzerland being close to Germany), but it remains to be seen, how strong and vital the KERS-link is going to be between Williams and Porsche in this matter.

McLaren-Porsche? Maybe not totally absurd, but personally don't quite see it happening. Porsche, like Ferrari, sounds more like a McLaren rival, who they are aiming to beat in car market. And we surely wouldn't imagine a McLaren-Ferrari on the grid. :p :

[DexDexter]

If Porsche wants to enter F1 properly, they might as well buy Sauber out and have their own team which they can run themselves.

What's wrong with that?

That route doesn't usually work, they'll just spend an awful lot of money and don't win anything. An engine supply deal with Mclaren would give them a lot more publicity (compared to costs) and success.

[maximilian]

It won't be McLaren.

[Valve Bounce]

McLaren won't happen. They are going to build their own engines. .

Don't tell me they've swiped the plans from Ferrari again. :rolleyes:

[DexDexter]

It won't be McLaren.

Maybe not but it should be. :)

[maximilian]

Maybe not but it should be. :)
Not with the way McLaren have repositioned themselves. If they wanted to partner with a big German luxury car maker, they already had that deal going, and it was a good one. ;) So they aren't gonna start over again with another one. Look for the McLaren Turbo engine and a pure McLaren-McLaren in 2013.

With the extra Mexican money, Sauber's chances may well just have gone up further.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'd like to see them go to Williams, even though I'm not a huge Williams (or Porsche) fan.

As someone mentioned, it would be nice to see the Lamborghini name back in the sport. But it's such a niche player in the market that I doubt the investment would be worth it compared to Porsche.