70 years ago this week never was so much owed by so many to so few

[Brown, Jon Brow]

On Sunday 15th September 1940 - now known as "Battle of Britain Day" - the Luftwaffe launched two huge bombing raids on London. Believing that the RAF was close to breaking point.

On the 15th, Prime Minister Winston Churchill visited RAF Uxbridge, the headquarters of No. 11 Group, Fighter Command. This group was responsible for the defence of London and the south-east of England. On this day, it was the beating heart of the battle.

The first wave of about 250 bombers came over the Channel at 11am and whilst many Luftwaffe planes were intercepted by the RAF, around half managed to make it to London and drop their loads. A second wave of about the same number returned at 2pm believed to be aiming for South London and the railways out to Kent. The raids continued into the night.

There was not one RAF squadron left in reserve.

The RAF claimed to have shot down 185 German planes; in fact, it was 61, but these were the highest losses the Luftwaffe had suffered for over a month. The RAF lost 31 planes.

Although fighting continued in the air for several more weeks, and British cities were bombed sporadically for the rest of the war, German tactics to achieve air superiority ahead of an invasion failed.

Sunday 15 September marked a clear and decisive defeat for the Luftwaffe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/battle_of_britain_day

http://www.sonsofdamien.co.uk/images/spitfire%20p7350.jpg

[Rollo]

I was listening to the World Service over the weekend and there was a chap talking about Britain's role in the "New Europe", and compared it to 70 years ago.

When Churchill was making his speech, Britain effectively stood alone on the Western Front and the Battle of Britain more or less proved that Britain could defend herself with very little help indeed.
With the decline of British industry over the next 40 years, and finally what little remained being gouged out, if another brouhaha were to start again would Britain be able to cope?

Even Dmitry Medvedev has said that Britain is effectively a second level power, and with the rise of Germany within in the EU taking a more pacifist policy, Britain's power is falling..
Having said that, for 2009 Britain was still the world's second biggest spender on the military.

[Sonic]

Even Dmitry Medvedev has said that Britain is effectively a second level power, and with the rise of Germany within in the EU taking a more pacifist policy, Britain's power is falling..
Having said that, for 2009 Britain was still the world's second biggest spender on the military.

Really? I know the British forces have been involved with ongoing operations for best part of a decade but surely just on size alone China, Russia and maybe France must be up there on military spend.

[Macd]

With the decline of British industry over the next 40 years, and finally what little remained being gouged out, if another brouhaha were to start again would Britain be able to cope?



Well we all know who to blame for that ....

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I was listening to the World Service over the weekend and there was a chap talking about Britain's role in the "New Europe", and compared it to 70 years ago.

When Churchill was making his speech, Britain effectively stood alone on the Western Front and the Battle of Britain more or less proved that Britain could defend herself with very little help indeed.
With the decline of British industry over the next 40 years, and finally what little remained being gouged out, if another brouhaha were to start again would Britain be able to cope?

Even Dmitry Medvedev has said that Britain is effectively a second level power, and with the rise of Germany within in the EU taking a more pacifist policy, Britain's power is falling..
Having said that, for 2009 Britain was still the world's second biggest spender on the military.

Well thanks in part to the EU it is very unlikely that we will ever have another war between European powers.

I'm not so sure what role the RAF has today. I really think it is the most vulnerable of the big 3 forces to spending cuts.

[AndyRAC]

Anybody see the Battle of Britain programme on TV last night? Have you seen the state of Biggin Hill, an absolute disgrace!! It should be preserved as a museum, not left to rot.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Even Dmitry Medvedev has said that Britain is effectively a second level power,

We have to believe Mr. Medvedev. After all, he is the President of a mighty superpower...

[janvanvurpa]

Well we all know who to blame for that ....

The owners of British Industry who failed to re-invest and allowed once great leaders in both design and manufacture slip?
The owners of Britsish steel who never re-invested and were surpassed by new, more efficient mills in Germany and American---who were in turn surpassed by.....as American owners also became fat and complacent?

Pretty hard to blame the workers who build what's on the print if the owners commission ancient designs like the Morris 1000 and those can only sell in colonial markets with monopolies and protectionist tariffs.

n'cest pas?

[Captain VXR]

Everyone in GB should be bloody grateful for what the British, Polish, Czech, Canadian and various other pilots in the RAF bravely did for freedom, democracy and equality

[schmenke]

Everyone in GB should be bloody grateful for what the British, Polish, Czech, Canadian and various other pilots in the RAF bravely did for freedom, democracy and equality

Notably, the American volunteer pilots.

[Jag_Warrior]

No political speech from me. Just a simple hats-off to those who made the ultimate sacrifice for a worthy cause.

[Rollo]

Notably, the American volunteer pilots.

All of them could fit into a Vauxhall Zafira.

[schmenke]

All of them could fit into a Vauxhall Zafira.

:confused:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

:confused:

The US was still neutral during the Battle of Britain.

The RAF only recognises 7 US pilots who fought during the Battle of Britain. Although I guess more Americans probably fought as 'Canandians'.

[schmenke]

Thanks B,JB. I was under the impression that there were perhaps dozens that volunteered :|

[Easy Drifter]

There were quite a few who joined the RCAF before the US got into the war but they did not see action in the Battle of Britain.
Later yes.
Quite a few also transferred to the USAF after the US joined the war.

[Rollo]

Everyone in GB should be bloody grateful for what the British, Polish, Czech, Canadian and various other pilots in the RAF bravely did for freedom, democracy and equality

There was a single Canadian squadron (No.1 RCAF), but apart from that everyone else flew in RAF units. There were Polish and Czech pilots, but no Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans etc were awarded 1939-45 Stars with "Battle of Britain" clasps (or at least none which Krause's Standard Catalogue of British Medals cares to mention).
Canadians were more likely to be awarded Air Crew Europe, France & Germany and Atlantic Stars, whereas Australians & New Zealanders were more likely to be awarded Africa and Italy stars, and South Africans were almost exclusively awarded Africa stars only it appears.

The Commonwealth generally were a brilliant help in supply, but when it came to the Battle of Britain itself, this was far too early in proceedings for the RAF to actually get help from other nations forces.

[Hondo]

Don't forget to thank Goring for really poor target selection, a failure to appreciate the value of the British radar, an unchanging tactical doctrine, and most of all, foolishly trying to achive a strategic goal with a tactical airforce.

Let's not forget Adolf who insisted upon switching the bombing to British cities after a German city was bombed and who was not real keen on the idea of invading England anyway.

[Easy Drifter]

At the beginning of the war the RCAF like the RCN did not amount to much.
One of the largest contributions to the air war was the huge number of training bases for air crew established in Canada. They were used to train many pilots of the RAF as well as the RCAF plus other nations.
Many of those airfields became Canada's race tracks and Gimli is still in use as a track. Edenvale where I saw my first race in '52 is now an active private field and there may be future race events there, although there is local opposition.
I raced at Green Acres, now a Turkey farm and Harewood, now Oil Refinery and was at a few more over the years, including Debert and Gimli.
By the end of the war the RCN was the 3rd largest in the world although the largest ships were two light Cruisers.

[Hondo]

From another perspective, imagine that Dowding was given 30-60 days to establish air superiority over Normandy and the Channel using Wellingtons, Fairey Battles, Boulton Paul Defiants, Hurricanes, and Spitfires. He would have been wiped out. Dowding would be facing escort fighter aircraft lacking the range for any meaningful combat time in the target area, some fighters (Boulton Pauls) needing escort themselves, pilots having to bail out over hostile territory instead of home ground, and the loss of downed or severly damaged aircraft for salvage purposes.

[markabilly]

By the end of the war the RCN was the 3rd largest in the world although the largest ships were two light Cruisers.
Cause everyone else previously above the RCN, had this certain problem of being chopped up......

[Easy Drifter]

The RCN lost many ships and men on the North Atlantic run and the Murmansk run. Other were sunk in the Channel and Med.
Most of of the RCN were small ships with a few Destroyers but most were Corvettes, Frigates, MTBs, MGBs and Fairmiles.
Outside of the Destroyers, MTBs and MGBs they did mostly anti sub escort work.
Neither of the light Cruisers which were ex RN vessels joined the RCN in time to see action as Cdn. ships.
Our ships were not big there just were an awful lot of them!

[Mark in Oshawa]

3rd largest Navy in the world at the end of the war...and the largest ships were two cruisers and maybe a "jeep" carrier.

The Battle of Britain was proof positive that the British ARE different...and much more resilient as a nation then people realized. Now I suspect that has been lost a little, but it is nice to remember at least the brave "few" that showed the world in 1940 that the UK wasn't going anywhere. She was bloodied but only more determined to fight on....

The movie of the same name does sort of tell the story, but the plot is just a light weight frame to hang all those great shots of Spitfires, Hurricanes and Messerschmitt's and the sound of those Merlins...the first "sound of freedom" in WW2.

Never been a fighter more pleasing to the eye than a Spitfire....

[Steve Boyd]

The RCN lost many ships and men on the North Atlantic run and the Murmansk run. Other were sunk in the Channel and Med.
Most of of the RCN were small ships with a few Destroyers but most were Corvettes, Frigates, MTBs, MGBs and Fairmiles.
Outside of the Destroyers, MTBs and MGBs they did mostly anti sub escort work.
Neither of the light Cruisers which were ex RN vessels joined the RCN in time to see action as Cdn. ships.
Our ships were not big there just were an awful lot of them!
If you're interested in the Battle of the Atlantic you might appreciate this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/front_page/newsid_8858000/8858855.stm