hypocrisy

[glauistean]

In this great country, the US, we are bombarded with excess to the point of absolute and utter shameless greed. So much so that there is a lack of knowledge between the children and in a very large segment of the population of what is going on in the world.

While visiting Europe before the last election I was appalled to hear what people thought of the US in terms of knowledge and education. It was appalling.

Most people in Europe know and can explain the system of our governmental elections, down to the electoral college. There is a comical view of our youth when it is shown that over 80% of Ivy league college students can't A/ tell where Honduras is, B/ name two recent British Prime Ministers C/ what were the names of the crew on the moon landing and who stayed on the mother ship. D/ Why is England not a country and E/ lastly, what is proportional representation, socialism, communism and capitalism?

It was a total failure. It was also an eye opener to the people I spoke with about the standard of education in High School and that students had to go to "college" first for at least four years in order to enter the field of their choice, i.e. Law, Medicine, Engineering etc while European students go through a rigorous high school regimen that they are ready after graduation to enter these highly skilled areas.

It was embarrassing to hear the stories I was told and I tried to defend my country. This was an absolute catastrophe when I met a person fro the Midwest that interjected in a conversation that he was not invited to and began to speak in the most despicable manner about President Obama that he was thrown out of the bar to a loud cheer. If anyone is under the deluded opinion that racism is not here in the US and as bad as it ever was this guy certainly disproved that opinion. He was not even drunk.

I'm sure you all know the statistics of one person airing their opinion in public without concern. It is pretty high in terms of the population that there are many more of these same clowns.

Reminded me of the old verse used with reference to WW II.

First they came for the Jews........

[anthonyvop]

Ahhhhhhh....

Another Europeans are better than Americans rant!

If Europe is so great how come there are so many of them in the USA?

[gloomyDAY]

Ahhhhhhh....

Another Europeans are better than Americans rant!

If Europe is so great how come there are so many of them in the USA?Because the good ol' US of A has some of the best universities in the world? Just a wild guess!

If you have a problem with the public education system, then go to private school. I was fortunate enough to have two parents that worked their asses off as laborers so their son could have a better future. Honestly, I ain't doin' too bad for the offspring of illegal immigrants.

I think America is very unique in the sense that hard work and dedication will pay dividends for your future. So far, that line of thinking has worked well for me.

[glauistean]

First of all, that was not a rant. Secondly, there are fewer Europeans of the current generation moving to the US. They are instead moving throughout the EU.
However, instead of answering the body of the post you immediately react as all right wing fanatics. You deflect. You try to alter the very context of what was written instead of addressing it's merit.
By doing this Prop, you fall into the very argument that is proposed.

[Bob Riebe]

First of all, that was not a rant. Secondly, there are fewer Europeans of the current generation moving to the US. They are instead moving throughout the EU.
However, instead of answering the body of the post you immediately react as all right wing fanatics. You deflect. You try to alter the very context of what was written instead of addressing it's merit.
By doing this Prop, you fall into the very argument that is proposed.
It was your opinion, and you are merely trolling for a response so you can attack those who disagree with you.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

In this great country, the US, we are bombarded with excess to the point of absolute and utter shameless greed. So much so that there is a lack of knowledge between the children and in a very large segment of the population of what is going on in the world.

While visiting Europe before the last election I was appalled to hear what people thought of the US in terms of knowledge and education. It was appalling.

Most people in Europe know and can explain the system of our governmental elections, down to the electoral college. There is a comical view of our youth when it is shown that over 80% of Ivy league college students can't A/ tell where Honduras is, B/ name two recent British Prime Ministers C/ what were the names of the crew on the moon landing and who stayed on the mother ship. D/ Why is England not a country and E/ lastly, what is proportional representation, socialism, communism and capitalism?

It was a total failure. It was also an eye opener to the people I spoke with about the standard of education in High School and that students had to go to "college" first for at least four years in order to enter the field of their choice, i.e. Law, Medicine, Engineering etc while European students go through a rigorous high school regimen that they are ready after graduation to enter these highly skilled areas.

It was embarrassing to hear the stories I was told and I tried to defend my country. This was an absolute catastrophe when I met a person fro the Midwest that interjected in a conversation that he was not invited to and began to speak in the most despicable manner about President Obama that he was thrown out of the bar to a loud cheer. If anyone is under the deluded opinion that racism is not here in the US and as bad as it ever was this guy certainly disproved that opinion. He was not even drunk.

I'm sure you all know the statistics of one person airing their opinion in public without concern. It is pretty high in terms of the population that there are many more of these same clowns.

Reminded me of the old verse used with reference to WW II.

First they came for the Jews........

I don't know who you talked to but I don't think that most people over here could even explain our own election system, never mind a foreign country.

I think statistics are used unfairly against Americans in comparision to Europe. Such as only 22% of Americans having a passport. You can't compare this to Europeans because a foreign country is often less than an hours flight away. If we only needed a passport to travel outside of Europe most of us wouldn't have one.

However there does seem to be a lot of confusion in America about the difference between England, Wales, Scotland and the United Kingdom. I read some American reviews of the England versus USA match at the FIFA World Cup. I noticed how they used the Union Flag to represent England instead of the St.Georges Cross and referred to the English footballers as Brits. The sad truth of this ignorance is the Scottish people don't call themselves British because Americans always assume British people are English (who talk like Hugh Grant, have tea and crumpets in the afternoon and have bad teeth).

[Alexamateo]

...........

Americans always assume British people are English (who talk like Hugh Grant, have tea and crumpets in the afternoon and have bad teeth).

Wait a minute!! ...... You mean they're not???????!!!!!!! :confused: :crazy: :D

[Rollo]

However there does seem to be a lot of confusion in America about the difference between England, Wales, Scotland and the United Kingdom. I read some American reviews of the England versus USA match at the FIFA World Cup. I noticed how they used the Union Flag to represent England instead of the St.Georges Cross and referred to the English footballers as Brits. The sad truth of this ignorance is the Scottish people don't call themselves British because Americans always assume British people are English (who talk like Hugh Grant, have tea and crumpets in the afternoon and have bad teeth).

In defence of "confusion in America" I present World Cup Willie from the World Cup in ENGLAND in 1966:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/1966_worldcupwillie.png
Why should you expect other people to make a distinction when the historical distinction itself is blurred?

This video from QI explains further:
2O5rCjTa6v4

The point to all of this is the concept of "Metonymy" where one label or concept is used in place of another. In normal parlance for instance we talk of "America" when in actual fact for 99% of cases, we probably mean "The United States of America". Do the rest of America which includes both North and South continents feel indignant? Likewise We might refer to "Whitehall" when we actually mean The British Government.

Even "The Oxford History of England" states:
'England' was still an all-embracing word. It meant indiscriminately England and Wales; Great Britain; the United Kingdom; and even the British Empire.
(A.J.P. Taylor, Volume XV: English History, 1914–1945, page v)

Really the "sad truth of this ignorance" is caused by and was perpetuated by the "English" (whatever that means), right up until about the second half of the 20th century and was really solidified with devolution and the granting of independent parliaments to Wales and Scotland.
Even the use of the crosses of St George at sporting fixtures really only took off with the coming of Euro '96, and the Union Flag itself fell out of favour once the BNP started gathering momentum.

Can you accuse someone of "ignorance" when even the English are confused about their own identity?

[rah]

Lol, nice one Rollo.

Laughing at silly Americans is an international past time so I can't see it ending soon. I don't think yanks are less intelligent than the rest of us, but I do think more surveys are done in the USA which makes them look dumber.

I listen to a lot of science podcasts, and there is not a week that goes by that some super boffin from the States has invented something that I then have to try and wrap my head around. Some of the recent ones are: paint on lasers, fission reactors with fusion reactors inside and laser cooled atoms for better atomic clocks.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

In this great country, the US, we are bombarded with excess to the point of absolute and utter shameless greed. So much so that there is a lack of knowledge between the children and in a very large segment of the population of what is going on in the world.

While visiting Europe before the last election I was appalled to hear what people thought of the US in terms of knowledge and education. It was appalling.

Most people in Europe know and can explain the system of our governmental elections, down to the electoral college. There is a comical view of our youth when it is shown that over 80% of Ivy league college students can't A/ tell where Honduras is, B/ name two recent British Prime Ministers C/ what were the names of the crew on the moon landing and who stayed on the mother ship. D/ Why is England not a country and E/ lastly, what is proportional representation, socialism, communism and capitalism?

It was a total failure. It was also an eye opener to the people I spoke with about the standard of education in High School and that students had to go to "college" first for at least four years in order to enter the field of their choice, i.e. Law, Medicine, Engineering etc while European students go through a rigorous high school regimen that they are ready after graduation to enter these highly skilled areas.

It was embarrassing to hear the stories I was told and I tried to defend my country. This was an absolute catastrophe when I met a person fro the Midwest that interjected in a conversation that he was not invited to and began to speak in the most despicable manner about President Obama that he was thrown out of the bar to a loud cheer. If anyone is under the deluded opinion that racism is not here in the US and as bad as it ever was this guy certainly disproved that opinion. He was not even drunk.

I'm sure you all know the statistics of one person airing their opinion in public without concern. It is pretty high in terms of the population that there are many more of these same clowns.

Reminded me of the old verse used with reference to WW II.

First they came for the Jews........


In defence of "confusion in America" I present World Cup Willie from the World Cup in ENGLAND in 1966:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/1966_worldcupwillie.png
Why should you expect other people to make a distinction when the historical distinction itself is blurred?

This video from QI explains further:
2O5rCjTa6v4

The point to all of this is the concept of "Metonymy" where one label or concept is used in place of another. In normal parlance for instance we talk of "America" when in actual fact for 99% of cases, we probably mean "The United States of America". Do the rest of America which includes both North and South continents feel indignant? Likewise We might refer to "Whitehall" when we actually mean The British Government.

Even "The Oxford History of England" states:
'England' was still an all-embracing word. It meant indiscriminately England and Wales; Great Britain; the United Kingdom; and even the British Empire.
(A.J.P. Taylor, Volume XV: English History, 1914–1945, page v)

Really the "sad truth of this ignorance" is caused by and was perpetuated by the "English" (whatever that means), right up until about the second half of the 20th century and was really solidified with devolution and the granting of independent parliaments to Wales and Scotland.
Even the use of the crosses of St George at sporting fixtures really only took off with the coming of Euro '96, and the Union Flag itself fell out of favour once the BNP started gathering momentum.

Can you accuse someone of "ignorance" when even the English are confused about their own identity?


:(

[Roamy]

Well who really gives a sh!t??? We have some dumb ones we have some smart ones. We have Apple, Intel, Microsoft the F22 and you guys have a huge Muslim influx. So when you get around to stoning your women send the pretty ones over here!

[janvanvurpa]

Because the good ol' US of A has some of the best universities in the world? Just a wild guess!

If you have a problem with the public education system, then go to private school. I was fortunate enough to have two parents that worked their asses off as laborers so their son could have a better future. Honestly, I ain't doin' too bad for the offspring of illegal immigrants.

I think America is very unique in the sense that hard work and dedication will pay dividends for your future. So far, that line of thinking has worked well for me.

I have seen no discernible difference between children "educated" in Public or private High Schools.. briefly put "a whole lot of nuthin" is not much difference from "don't know jack sh!t"..

The main difference is that the cocky twerps who were or went to expensive ($22,000/yr in the mid 1990s for one here in Seattle who worked for me doing her Senior Year project for 4 months) is they announced with a certainty that "I'm getting a good education".

And you are wrong is imagining (you don't "think" America is unique, you imagine or believe America is unique, had you gotten a decent education you would have been taught that there are huge differences between those words)
that USA is unique "in the sense that hard work and dedication will pay dividends for your future. "

There is MORE social mobility ---moving in social classes--- in Europe than USA, and if you want to see return on investment in education and hard work, I suggest you visit China sometimes...It is totally amazing what a good college education and hard work accomplishes there.

[janvanvurpa]

Well who really gives a sh!t??? We have some dumb ones we have some smart ones. We have Apple, Intel, Microsoft the F22 and you guys have a huge Muslim influx. So when you get around to stoning your women send the pretty ones over here!


Ah Fousto, or whatever dumb name he's hiding behind lately, whose brilliant reasoning and insight is here the clinching the discussion that the American educational system, indeed the whole society produces..........

intellectually negative, plagiarizing, violent xenophobic, ciphers.

hey Fousto, don't say "we' to all that stuff, you had nothing to do with any of it.

And with we've heard of your physical 'amplitude" it won't do you any good if the Europeans send 20,000 babes to USA, they're not impressed with well guys like you...to put it as politely and understated as possible.

In more plain words, fat rednecks aren't the "in" thing in the civilised parts of the world.

[glauistean]

It was your opinion, and you are merely trolling for a response so you can attack those who disagree with you.

Most people who write on a forum express an opinion. Trolling? What is trolling? To me it is putting a bait in the water to catch a fish. If that's the case I have caught one very insecure one. Bob Riebe, if you are unabale to refute what I have said , and you, yes you, are the one that is trying to illicit a reponse.

[janvanvurpa]

First of all, that was not a rant. Secondly, there are fewer Europeans of the current generation moving to the US. They are instead moving throughout the EU.
However, instead of answering the body of the post you immediately react as all right wing fanatics. You deflect. You try to alter the very context of what was written instead of addressing it's merit.
By doing this Prop, you fall into the very argument that is proposed.


Glauistean, according to all those on the Authoritarian Extremest side of the field, anything they either cannot begin to understand---or feel they may disagree with, or have been told by their betters on the Talk Radio is bad, they characterise as a "rant"..
You should do as I do who believes that each person treats others as they wish to be treated themselves and invariably refer to any response from the V.I.s here as a rant in return..

To them, there is one mode of dialog and that is Ranting. no talking, no laying foundations to a premise, only agreement or ranting...

Keep up the good work, ignore Vop, he's in a fantasy world, ignore the currently named Roamy aka Fousto the Plagiartist (he cuts and pastes email chain letters and junk from Freerepublic and Storm Front and posts it up as if he was clever enough to have thought, much less written more than 3 lines of hate at a given time.)

[glauistean]

I don't know who you talked to but I don't think that most people over here could even explain our own election system, never mind a foreign country.

I think statistics are used unfairly against Americans in comparision to Europe. Such as only 22% of Americans having a passport. You can't compare this to Europeans because a foreign country is often less than an hours flight away. If we only needed a passport to travel outside of Europe most of us wouldn't have one.

However there does seem to be a lot of confusion in America about the difference between England, Wales, Scotland and the United Kingdom. I read some American reviews of the England versus USA match at the FIFA World Cup. I noticed how they used the Union Flag to represent England instead of the St.Georges Cross and referred to the English footballers as Brits. The sad truth of this ignorance is the Scottish people don't call themselves British because Americans always assume British people are English (who talk like Hugh Grant, have tea and crumpets in the afternoon and have bad teeth).
Ireland (Rep) was the country where I had the most in depth conversation.

People in Ireland are very well versed in most topics and politics is one of their favorite topics. That it does not include GB and you assumed I spoke of the GB shows a little bit of arrogance on your part sinve the UK or GB was not mentioned.

Ireland ranks in the top five in education at secondary level (high school). Ten places higher than the UK and another 7 places higher than the US.
English football palyers are Brits. So too are the Scots, the Welsh and those from Northern Ireland.

England is not a country and is allowed t participate as an independent body as the others mentioned as a result of a request to do so.

Your comment that most people travelling outside of their own country with specific emphasis on GB is obvious because of geography.

The endemic problem in the US is its colloquial approach to everything, be iteducation, politics or knowledge of history or geography. Should I say Sarah Palin? Again?

[Bob Riebe]

Most people who write on a forum express an opinion. Trolling? What is trolling? To me it is putting a bait in the water to catch a fish. If that's the case I have caught one very insecure one. Bob Riebe, if you are unabale to refute what I have said , and you, yes you, are the one that is trying to illicit a reponse.
You have said nothing to refute, all you give is your opinion and as it is baseless, it is vacuous.

Nice try at avoiding having to make a an actual point by attacking other posters rather than proving your rhetoric, although as it is vacuous, that would be impossible anyway.

You seem to be a little child, who is a legend in his own mind---
Definition of COLLOQUIAL
1
: of or relating to conversation : conversational
2
a : used in or characteristic of familiar and informal conversation
b : using conversational style

--as ignorant as it seems to be.
Troll, troll, troll your boat....

[Rudy Tamasz]

Ireland (Rep) was the country where I had the most in depth conversation.

People in Ireland are very well versed in most topics and politics is one of their favorite topics. That it does not include GB and you assumed I spoke of the GB shows a little bit of arrogance on your part sinve the UK or GB was not mentioned.

Ireland ranks in the top five in education at secondary level (high school). Ten places higher than the UK and another 7 places higher than the US.
English football palyers are Brits. So too are the Scots, the Welsh and those from Northern Ireland.

England is not a country and is allowed t participate as an independent body as the others mentioned as a result of a request to do so.

Your comment that most people travelling outside of their own country with specific emphasis on GB is obvious because of geography.

The endemic problem in the US is its colloquial approach to everything, be iteducation, politics or knowledge of history or geography. Should I say Sarah Palin? Again?

Why is Oireland so miserable then?

[Rollo]

English football players are Brits. So too are the Scots, the Welsh and those from Northern Ireland.

England is not a country and is allowed to participate as an independent body as the others mentioned as a result of a request to do so.


England is not a country? Bollocks.

England is one of four constituent countries of the UK, and whilst it doesn't have a devolved parliament of it's own, the laws passed in Wales do not apply in England, the laws passed in Scotland do not apply in England and the laws passed in Northern Ireland also do not apply in England.

However, although laws passed in the Parliament in Westminster do apply throughout the UK (subject to special applications law in Northern Ireland), it is English Law which applies in Wales and England, Scots Law which applies in Scotland, and Northern Ireland law which applies in said country.

England did not simply disappear with the Acts of Union, nor did it "dissolve" into the UK. England is in political union Scotland which formed a new country called the United Kingdom, but nevertheless it is still a country in its own right.

English football players are ENGLISH. There is no British Football Team (though in the past there has been for a few select matches). England participates along with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, because they all have separate Football Associations and because they are four separate countries.

Furthermore the International Football Association Board is made up of the four countries in the UK, plus four other FIFA members, not because of some "request". The four home nations have a very big say in the laws of the game.
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/organisation/ip-100_04e_ifab_9481.pdf

The English are English, the Scots are Scottish, the Welsh are Welsh, and the people of Northern Ireland are from Northern Ireland. Britain is both a political construct, a sovereign territory and a flag of convenience or inconvenience as required.

[Mark]

and the people of Northern Ireland are from Northern Ireland.

Nicely swerved there :p

[MrJan]

English football palyers are Brits. So too are the Scots, the Welsh and those from Northern Ireland.

Yes they are, but to describe them as such invites confusion, it's like referring to Spanish players as Europeans.

I am both British and English....and we're as stupid as any other country :p : :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Ireland (Rep) was the country where I had the most in depth conversation.

People in Ireland are very well versed in most topics and politics is one of their favorite topics. That it does not include GB and you assumed I spoke of the GB shows a little bit of arrogance on your part sinve the UK or GB was not mentioned.

I didn't assume you were talking about GB. I was just using it as an example of a European country because it is the one I know most about.




Your comment that most people travelling outside of their own country with specific emphasis on GB is obvious because of geography.

But as most nations in Europe are of a similar geographical size to US states it is relevant to almost all of Europe, not just GB.

[F1boat]

Huh, I think that some Americans are obviously very dumb, it can be seen every time the news broadcast a tea party campaign, but on the other hand it is ridiculous to say that all Americans are stupid, I mean, they have great authors, movie directors, scientists and so on and so on. In every country there are many stupid people and not so many smart ones. Maybe the fact that the USA are currently the strongest country in the world puts it into focus. For example, many people, including me, are apalled when 40 or 50% of Americans express the belief that Earth is several thousand years old (it's like to say that it is flat), but I am sure that in other countries, maybe in the Middle East for example, the results would be also devastating, even worse. So, stupidity is paramount and transnational, but maybe I agree that in Europe the situation is better - at least in Western Europe.

[Garry Walker]

Huh, I think that some Americans are obviously very dumb, it can be seen every time the news broadcast a tea party campaign.

Funny, I always thought that the dumbest americans (and in fact, the kind of people who are a disgrace to the whole country) can be seen in democraps conventions.

[Roamy]

In more plain words, fat rednecks aren't the "in" thing in the civilised parts of the world.

you are probably right with this one. I am sure they prefer "Gay" lapboard holders with a communist attitude

[F1boat]

Funny, I always thought that the dumbest americans (and in fact, the kind of people who are a disgrace to the whole country) can be seen in democraps conventions.

Opinions are like a$$****. Everybody has one.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Huh, I think that some Americans are obviously very dumb, it can be seen every time the news broadcast a tea party campaign, but on the other hand it is ridiculous to say that all Americans are stupid, I mean, they have great authors, movie directors, scientists and so on and so on. In every country there are many stupid people and not so many smart ones. Maybe the fact that the USA are currently the strongest country in the world puts it into focus. For example, many people, including me, are apalled when 40 or 50% of Americans express the belief that Earth is several thousand years old (it's like to say that it is flat), but I am sure that in other countries, maybe in the Middle East for example, the results would be also devastating, even worse. So, stupidity is paramount and transnational, but maybe I agree that in Europe the situation is better - at least in Western Europe.

I wouldn't call people dumb just because they are not aware of this and that. If they know their business well, they qualify as smart to me regardless of whether they stay on top of the latest astronomy theories. I'd rather prefer this kind of attitude than European (especially East European) attitude when people "know it all" from literature to chemistry but cannot tighten a screw properly, let alone run their countries efficiently. Awareness is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom, my friend.

[glauistean]

You have said nothing to refute, all you give is your opinion and as it is baseless, it is vacuous.

Nice try at avoiding having to make a an actual point by attacking other posters rather than proving your rhetoric, although as it is vacuous, that would be impossible anyway.

You seem to be a little child, who is a legend in his own mind---
Definition of COLLOQUIAL
1
: of or relating to conversation : conversational
2
a : used in or characteristic of familiar and informal conversation
b : using conversational style

--as ignorant as it seems to be.
Troll, troll, troll your boat....


Bob Riebe, why are you posting a very narrow definition of a word on the forum. If you had to look it up on the dictionary supplied on the toolbar, then it is too sad. For you.

Colloquial has many uses so subtle that it surprises me that you would bash me for one thing and then proceed to put up a definition for a word.

For instance. There is a word, colloquialism that refers to language of a specific area. Then there is the use of the word as I did and that any educated person would understand it to mean the local context within which matters are discussed or understood.

If you believe I am on a high horse or podium it is your insecurity that has me there as I certainly am not doing so myself. You had ample opportunity to bash me with my last post which was written on my laptop. Unfortunately, the laptop is dying a death and as a result I am left with the unsavory task of posting with many words falling in on top of each other. But, I digress.

[anthonyvop]

I have seen no discernible difference between children "educated" in Public or private High Schools.. briefly put "a whole lot of nuthin" is not much difference from "don't know jack sh!t"..

The main difference is that the cocky twerps who were or went to expensive ($22,000/yr in the mid 1990s for one here in Seattle who worked for me doing her Senior Year project for 4 months) is they announced with a certainty that "I'm getting a good education".

And you are wrong is imagining (you don't "think" America is unique, you imagine or believe America is unique, had you gotten a decent education you would have been taught that there are huge differences between those words)
that USA is unique "in the sense that hard work and dedication will pay dividends for your future. "

There is MORE social mobility ---moving in social classes--- in Europe than USA, and if you want to see return on investment in education and hard work, I suggest you visit China sometimes...It is totally amazing what a good college education and hard work accomplishes there.


Wow.

That was a way over the top, jealous, ignorant rant by any standard.....even yours.

You base your whole belief of private education on one example......and the idea that Europe has more social mobility is true if you consider a downward slide a good thing.

[anthonyvop]

Funny, I always thought that the dumbest americans (and in fact, the kind of people who are a disgrace to the whole country) can be seen in democraps conventions.


Nope.

The dumbest are those who vote for the candidate that gets nominated at that convention.

[janvanvurpa]

Wow.

That was a way over the top, jealous, ignorant rant by any standard.....even yours.

You base your whole belief of private education on one example......and the idea that Europe has more social mobility is true if you consider a downward slide a good thing.


No, Vop, you are too simple minded---as we see constantly---to understand that i only referenced one example . I have encountered over 40 years of examples... but I am in contact with and talk to a large variety of peopl, not stuck in some cess pool of retirees and crimianls like most of Florida where you are mired.

The social mobility of Europe, and it's loss in USA is well documented, but that would require research on your part, and of course, that is way more effort than just writing contrarian one liners, so of course you can't be bothered...

Why do you go re-phrase other peoples press releases and let the adults discuss without your gems.

[glauistean]

Funny, I always thought that the dumbest Americans (and in fact, the kind of people who are a disgrace to the whole country) can be seen in democraps conventions.

Gary Walker: you prove the point. I would like to ask you what a democrap is (presumably a democrat)? I would also like to point out the fact that the Republican Party is doing it's best to dumb down the population of right wingers. Hence your idiotic post. Try writing something with substance that does not have a childish slant akin to the one above ,and the Republican penchant for trying to be glib but looking and sounding like two year olds by call the Democratic party the Democrat party.

It is so amusing to me to see that within a day of a person writing or saying something right wing and sarcastic or just plain foolish there is a race for repetition of the idiocy. But, they fail to see it, like you.

[glauistean]

Wow.

That was a way over the top, jealous, ignorant rant by any standard.....even yours.

You base your whole belief of private education on one example......and the idea that Europe has more social mobility is true if you consider a downward slide a good thing.

Downward slide in Europe? Where and compared to what country?

[glauistean]

Nope.

The dumbest are those who vote for the candidate that gets nominated at that convention.
Really, Barack Obama is dumb? John McCain is smart? So smart that he could not name the differencebetween rival sects, their location and whom they represented. All this in a world wide interview.

You have Sarah Palin that believes that Africa is a country and I would bet that she or for that matter , you, could not place Samoa, New Guinea, or the Isle of Man on a map. Unimportant as they may be, there is a history, profound history to them that I can almost assurredly believe that President Obama , VP Biden and Hilary Clinton would not only know what it is , but also, let you know what the effect has been as a result.

Now, off you go and look it up. I will expect a reply (not instantaneous) but in maybe two or three hours.

[F1boat]

I wouldn't call people dumb just because they are not aware of this and that. If they know their business well, they qualify as smart to me regardless of whether they stay on top of the latest astronomy theories. I'd rather prefer this kind of attitude than European (especially East European) attitude when people "know it all" from literature to chemistry but cannot tighten a screw properly, let alone run their countries efficiently. Awareness is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom, my friend.

First of all, they are aware. They refuse to believe it because they prefer faerie tale. For me, this qualifies them as dumb.
Second, about Eastern Europe, to a degree you are right, but for me it is not bad to have knowledge about different and interesting things, which are not necessary connected with your job or about how you make money. About running the countries, it's a long topic, but for me the whole system is screwed from the start, in purpose.

[glauistean]

Glauistean, according to all those on the Authoritarian Extremest side of the field, anything they either cannot begin to understand---or feel they may disagree with, or have been told by their betters on the Talk Radio is bad, they characterise as a "rant"..
You should do as I do who believes that each person treats others as they wish to be treated themselves and invariably refer to any response from the V.I.s here as a rant in return..

To them, there is one mode of dialog and that is Ranting. no talking, no laying foundations to a premise, only agreement or ranting...

Keep up the good work, ignore Vop, he's in a fantasy world, ignore the currently named Roamy aka Fousto the Plagiartist (he cuts and pastes email chain letters and junk from Freerepublic and Storm Front and posts it up as if he was clever enough to have thought, much less written more than 3 lines of hate at a given time.)

Isn't it amusing to you if you ever see Beck, O'Reilly , Hannity and others that constantly use references to the Nazi party of Germany and applying it to democratic leaning people. Either they are being disingenuous or they are as ignorant as so many of those that listen to them and believe their inane commentary.

To the Vops and the Walkers and whomever is reading. The Nazi party and Hitler were in your mold. They were right wing extremists , maybe farther than you but with the basic tenets of belief. You are now following the ignorant and because of your hatred for a party but I bet it's primarily the President you have all suddenly come out of the woodwork and are espousing the same diatribe that was used in the past. That is why this thread started with a comment on my experience and amazement that people in the Republic of Ireland were not just completely informed about the workings of their own government they are informed as to that of others including the US.

Just an example. The Lisbon Treaty.

[chuck34]

Really, Barack Obama is dumb? John McCain is smart? So smart that he could not name the differencebetween rival sects, their location and whom they represented. All this in a world wide interview.


Yep you're right, John McCain is so dumb that he didn't even go campaining in all 57 states.

[chuck34]

To the Vops and the Walkers and whomever is reading. The Nazi party and Hitler were in your mold. They were right wing extremists , maybe farther than you but with the basic tenets of belief.

Think for yourself here a bit, and don't just espouse what you've been told over and over about the Nazi Party being right wing, and then associating that term with the Republican Party of the US. What exaclty are the policies that the Nazi Party and the Republican Party (especially the so called extreme right, or T.E.A. party) share?


You are now following the ignorant and because of your hatred for a party but I bet it's primarily the President you have all suddenly come out of the woodwork and are espousing the same diatribe that was used in the past.

"suddenly coming out of the woodwork", says the guy that joined in April of THIS year.


That is why this thread started with a comment on my experience and amazement that people in the Republic of Ireland were not just completely informed about the workings of their own government they are informed as to that of others including the US.

Great you found some smart guys in Ireland, and picked out a few "dumb" people in the US. Or is it that those "dumb" people just have different views than you do? Why can't you accept that smart people may just have a different opinion than you do? That doesn't mean they are dumb.


Just an example. The Lisbon Treaty.

Oh, now we're throwing out treaty names to prove how smart we are. Cool, I wanna play too. Let's see .... Treaty of Versailles 1871. How's that?

[Bob Riebe]

Bob Riebe, why are you posting a very narrow definition of a word on the forum. If you had to look it up on the dictionary supplied on the toolbar, then it is too sad. For you.

Colloquial has many uses so subtle that it surprises me that you would bash me for one thing and then proceed to put up a definition for a word.

For instance. There is a word, colloquialism that refers to language of a specific area. Then there is the use of the word as I did and that any educated person would understand it to mean the local context --
con·text   [kon-tekst]
–noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage. (Does this mean people in your area sound like braying hinnies?
Con-text- literally means, with text.)

-- within which matters are discussed or understood.

If you believe I am on a high horse or podium it is your insecurity that has me there as I certainly am not doing so myself. You had ample opportunity to bash me with my last post which was written on my laptop. Unfortunately, the laptop is dying a death and as a result I am left with the unsavory task of posting with many words falling in on top of each other. But, I digress.ROFLMAO
http://foolstown.com/sm/leb.gif
Yeah sure, you just keep saying that and eventually maybe you are obtuse enough that you will believe yourself-- but then you are a legend in your own mind.
As the old saying goes- ignorance is bliss and you are a very blissful person.

Words mean things, but to you they mean what ever you bray out, because you have not the faintest idea of their definition.

[Eki]

You base your whole belief of private education on one example......and the idea that Europe has more social mobility is true if you consider a downward slide a good thing.
Downward slide? My great grandfather was a stone worker who hadn't gone any schools, could read some, but not write. I have a university education and a nice office job.

[Eki]

To the Vops and the Walkers and whomever is reading. The Nazi party and Hitler were in your mold. They were right wing extremists , maybe farther than you but with the basic tenets of belief.
Farther? Just like anthonyvop, the Nazis believed that those who are not fit to work are also not fit to live.

[DexDexter]

Wow.

That was a way over the top, jealous, ignorant rant by any standard.....even yours.

You base your whole belief of private education on one example......and the idea that Europe has more social mobility is true if you consider a downward slide a good thing.

Europe? Europe is a continent. Which European country are you referring to? One word shows how little you know about things. And to the thread starter, you cannot say most people in Europe know this and that cause we are not a nation.

[Bob Riebe]

Europe? Europe is a continent. Which European country are you referring to? One word shows how little you know about things. And to the thread starter, you cannot say most people in Europe know this and that cause we are not a nation.

But, but-- I thought you had the European Union.

[Eki]

But, but-- I thought you had the European Union.
We also have the United Nations. It doesn't mean every country involved is the same.

[Garry Walker]

Really, Barack Obama is dumb? John McCain is smart? So smart that he could not name the differencebetween rival sects, their location and whom they represented. All this in a world wide interview.

You have Sarah Palin that believes that Africa is a country and I would bet that she or for that matter , you, could not place Samoa, New Guinea, or the Isle of Man on a map. Unimportant as they may be, there is a history, profound history to them that I can almost assurredly believe that President Obama , VP Biden and Hilary Clinton would not only know what it is , but also, let you know what the effect has been as a result.

Yeah, that president obama is really smart, I mean, he has been to 57 states in America according to himself, that is impressive. He truly is the fountain of knowledge in every aspect of life, not just mr.teleprompter.

[gloomyDAY]

Yeah, that president obama is really smart, I mean, he has been to 57 states in America according to himself, that is impressive. He truly is the fountain of knowledge in every aspect of life, not just mr.teleprompter.Oh, please! He meant to say forty-seven instead of fifty-seven. He still had one state to visit (within the contiguous U.S.) and then all the slack-jawed yokels took it to mean a Harvard grad didn't know how many stars were on the flag. :rolleyes:

[glauistean]

Think for yourself here a bit, and don't just espouse what you've been told over and over about the Nazi Party being right wing, and then associating that term with the Republican Party of the US. What exaclty are the policies that the Nazi Party and the Republican Party (especially the so called extreme right, or T.E.A. party) share?

I espouse nothing that I have not read and studied. It would benefit you if you would do the same. Pick up the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer and when you're finished , you might have an idea as to what Nazism was and to what political group it paid homage to. Remember, Nazism and its control by the facist, Hitler was right wing. Again, right wing. That theory of governance that you admire. Secondly, that you are asking me to explain to you what the friggin idiotically named Tea Party ideals are and how what they share with the Nazi's is sad. Find out for yourself. It is not up to me to educate you on your political views since you have made your mind up about them already and evidently have no idea what they are.


"suddenly coming out of the woodwork", says the guy that joined in April of THIS year.

My boy, I have been coming to these forums a lot longer than you. Another example of a right winger who simply has to be told or shown something simple and therefore believes it.



Great you found some smart guys in Ireland, and picked out a few "dumb" people in the US. Or is it that those "dumb" people just have different views than you do? Why can't you accept that smart people may just have a different opinion than you do? That doesn't mean they are dumb.

I did not "find" some smart guys in Ireland. I found many and on top of that I found many smart women too. Amazing thing was that one could sit down and not have to go through this moronic exercise that one is compelled to do in order to educate the uneducated like you.



Oh, now we're throwing out treaty names to prove how smart we are. Cool, I wanna play too. Let's see .... Treaty of Versailles 1871. How's that?

The Treaty of Lisbon was last year. That you find it intimidating that someone knows such things is sad. That you respond like a pompous bratty child is in my field of work known as the "ego defence mechanism".

Please read within the enclosed box as I have answered the posed questions. Unfortunately, I do not have the time or inclination to learn how to do these things.

[glauistean]

Europe? Europe is a continent. Which European country are you referring to? One word shows how little you know about things. And to the thread starter, you cannot say most people in Europe know this and that cause we are not a nation.
Dex, I am fully aware that Europe is a continent. Been to Europe many times. Been to Andorra for instance, San Marino, even to the smallest nation on earth and to the amazment of many, not the Vatican. stating that Europeans collectively are more informed is not just me stating something on a whim. It is a fact based upon international studies, peer groups and organizations.

Of countries with high level, third level, Europe is higher in knowledge on most subjects than any other continent. That is because of the diversity of subject and the quality of teaching.

[Mark]

BTW it is acceptable to use "Europe" as a short hand for "European Union", as long as the context is clear.

[markabilly]

Farther? Just like anthonyvop, the Nazis believed that those who are not fit to work are also not fit to live.
He never said that....he only said those that do not have enough money to pay for it, have no right to eat, get medical care, live in a house, breathe....................................

[chuck34]

I espouse nothing that I have not read and studied. It would benefit you if you would do the same. Pick up the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer and when you're finished , you might have an idea as to what Nazism was and to what political group it paid homage to. Remember, Nazism and its control by the facist, Hitler was right wing. Again, right wing. That theory of governance that you admire. Secondly, that you are asking me to explain to you what the friggin idiotically named Tea Party ideals are and how what they share with the Nazi's is sad. Find out for yourself. It is not up to me to educate you on your political views since you have made your mind up about them already and evidently have no idea what they are.

Great dodge there, lots of words that don't say anything and don't answer the question. Are you a politician? The question was, what policies do the current Rublican Party in the US share with the Nazi party? It should be a simple question as they are the same, according to you. I on the other hand don't see any similarities, so please enlighten me, and others.


My boy, I have been coming to these forums a lot longer than you. Another example of a right winger who simply has to be told or shown something simple and therefore believes it.

So what names do you also post under? I don't hide behind other names or nick-names. I am who I am. I have been posting since December of '03, as can clearly be seen by my avitar. You on the otherhand have been posting as "glauistean" only since April of 2010. Stop hiding.


I did not "find" some smart guys in Ireland. I found many and on top of that I found many smart women too. Amazing thing was that one could sit down and not have to go through this moronic exercise that one is compelled to do in order to educate the uneducated like you.

I have had many intelligent conversations in the US. There are many "smart" people here, on both the left and right, conservative and liberal. If you took the time to actually understand that a difference of opinion is not stupidity nor ignorance you may be able carry on an enlightening conversation.


The Treaty of Lisbon was last year. That you find it intimidating that someone knows such things is sad. That you respond like a pompous bratty child is in my field of work known as the "ego defence mechanism".

You threw out the name of a treaty with no context to anything. It sure looked like you were just trying to somehow "prove" that you know more than anyone else. Then you come back with your little retort and prove that was your aim; to "prove you're smart". Because even in your response you don't explain what connection the Treaty of Lisbon has to anything being discussed. Que glauistean saying "if you don't know the connection, it just proves how dumb/ignorant/stupid/moronic you are". For your information I do know what that treaty is.


[Please read within the enclosed box as I have answered the posed questions. Unfortunately, I do not have the time or inclination to learn how to do these things.

You can't even figure out how to respond, and I'm the dumb one? Ha! :)

[markabilly]

Reminded me of the old verse used with reference to WW II.

First they came for the Jews........

don't worry, after less than a minute or so of listening to you, they would not waste their time.....

[anthonyvop]

To the Vops and the Walkers and whomever is reading. The Nazi party and Hitler were in your mold.

Spare me the ignorant left wing argument.

Fascism/Nazism is a from of socialism. It is in no way right-wing, conservative or any other label you want to label it.

Educate yourself.

[ArrowsFA1]

Fascism/Nazism is a from of socialism. It is in no way right-wing, conservative or any other label you want to label it.

Educate yourself.
Might be a good idea - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Position_in_the_political_spectrum

[DexDexter]

Dex, I am fully aware that Europe is a continent. Been to Europe many times. Been to Andorra for instance, San Marino, even to the smallest nation on earth and to the amazment of many, not the Vatican. stating that Europeans collectively are more informed is not just me stating something on a whim. It is a fact based upon international studies, peer groups and organizations.

Of countries with high level, third level, Europe is higher in knowledge on most subjects than any other continent. That is because of the diversity of subject and the quality of teaching.

I don't know, if you look at Pisa scores (The OECD Programme for International Student Assessment ), Nordic countries such as Finland are top 5 and countries like Italy and Spain are like around 20th or lower so Europe cannot be seen collectively. After travelling to dozens of European countries, I'd say that the smaller the nation, the better they are informed about things.

On the other hand, I've met many Americans (from the New York area) who seem to have pretty good knowledge of things outside US but maybe NYC is an exception?.

[Mark]

On the other hand, I've met many Americans (from the New York area) who seem to have pretty good knowledge of things outside US but maybe NYC is an exception?.

I've often heard NYC described as "a bit of Europe picked up and dumped on the doorstep of America". I don't necessarily agree with that but it's certainly true that New York is not necessarily representative of the USA as a whole.

[race aficionado]

but it's certainly true that New York is not necessarily representative of the USA as a whole.

True, so true . . . .
:s mokin:

[Roamy]

BTW it is acceptable to use "Europe" as a short hand for "European Union", as long as the context is clear.

And TIRE is the acceptable long hand for "European Union"

The Islamic Republic of Europe

[anthonyvop]

Might be a good idea - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Position_in_the_political_spectrum

Wikipedia?

Sorry but Wikipedia is the source for twits.





fas·cism
   /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

Sounds like the liberals to me. You know the types who admireguys like Castro. the types who want the government controlling all businesses. The people who want to suppress what they call "hate speech".

[TOgoFASTER]

Hitler was not a socialist in the strict sense of the word; this can be shown by his definition of 'socialist', which differs from the norm:
"Whoever is prepared to make the national cause his own to such an extent that he knows no higher ideal than the welfare of his nation; whoever has understood our great national anthem, Deutschland, Deutschland, über Alles, to mean that nothing in the wide world surpasses in his eyes this Germany, people and land, land and people — that man is a Socialist." (Bullock 76)
Hitler's meaning of socialism, therefore did not refer to a specific economic system, but to "an instinct for national self-preservation" (Fischer 125) or nationalism. Concerning the Socialist aspects of the 25-Point program, Hitler made promises "because in 1920, the German working class and the lower middle classes were saturated in a radical anti-capitalism; such phrases were essential for any politician who wanted to attract their support" (Bullock 75).

For those who say the Nazis were left because of the party name, would you call the People's Republic of China a republic? Would you call absolute rulers like Henry VIII and Bloody Mary leftists. The Nazis were authoritarian right, as opposed to libertarian right. They nationalized only a few industries, and they did not move to redistribute wealth. The crux of their movement was race/nation, not leftist socislism. The Nazi Party was named National Socialist in early 20s to draw lower middle class support, and it had a left wing headed by Ernst Rohm and the Strasser brothers, but Hitler had them killed in 1934 to please the conservative army brass. The Nazis outlawed unions and set up a labor front which favored management, and got their financial support from wealthy industrialists. Their extreme nationalism/fanatical patriotism/chauvanism placed them on the right. Leftist are internationalist and non-racist...."Workers of the world, unite." Remember, the first people sent to Dachau were communists and social democrats, who were true socialist. But, they shared many of the methods used by the communists...at the end of the day, they are all totalitarian.
.

[TOgoFASTER]

http://humanknowledge.net/PoliticalSpace.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

And TIRE is the acceptable long hand for "European Union" among mentally "challenged" right wing extremists who live in a world of unreality who get all the info from Limaugh and beck---and StormFront.org

The Islamic Republic of Europe

Fixed that for you Foustina

[Rollo]

Think for yourself here a bit, and don't just espouse what you've been told over and over about the Nazi Party being right wing, and then associating that term with the Republican Party of the US. What exaclty are the policies that the Nazi Party and the Republican Party (especially the so called extreme right, or T.E.A. party) share?

To be fair the NSDAP didn't have a clearly defined set of aims within its manifesto.
From what I can gather, the central tenants of its 1930 election policies were thus:
- To ready Germany for war, through a strong military
- Increasing the size of the armed forces
- Reducing imported goods and manufacturing goods in Germany
- Manufacturing military goods, thereby decreasing unemployment
- Maintaining pay rates and living standards
- The building of/or an expansion of the rail and autobahn system
- Amalgamating "Greater Germany" through Lebensraum (which I assume means living space)
- Explicit Anti-Semitism and Anti-Semitic laws
- Deregulation of financial markets
- Increased reliance on the corporation, and co-government-corporation co-operation

The GOP's "government" website, contains virtually nothing on pro-active policy, but spends the vast bulk of it's time attacking the Democrats and Obama.
http://www.gop.gov/policy-news
You therefore need to go to the GOP's home website, where again actual policy is thin on the ground:
http://www.gop.com/index.php/issues/issues/


- National Defense:"maintaining a robust defense against threats arising from nuclear proliferation, including a strong ballistic missile defense for America..."
This would sit quite nicely within the 1930 NSDAP election manifesto. I find the phrase "Peace through Strength" curiously close to "Kraft durch Freude" or Strength Through Joy which was the name of part of NSDAP's German Labour Front. Also, why is it that United States seems to go so readily to war in the first place?

- Health Care: "We oppose government run health care, which won't protect the physician-patient relationship, won't promote competition..."
In other words, the GOP wants an "Increased reliance on the corporation", which again would reflect the 1930 NSDAP election manifesto.

- Economy: "We believe in the power of America's free-market economy. We believe in the importance of sensible business regulations that promote confidence in our economy among consumers, entrepreneurs and businesses alike."
Would this involve the "Deregulation of financial markets" by any chance?

As for the "autobahn system", well obviously the United States doesn't have anything similar at all does it? Well nothing except the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways. Eisenhower by the way was a member of which political party?

Perhaps the GOP isn't Anti-Semitic, but I wonder to what degree the Tea Party which is otherwise an astroturf movement funded by the same backers as the GOP, also happens to enmesh with the severe Anti-Muslim sentiment sweeping the United States (just with a different target).

Of course the judge of character happens to be how one acts and all of this only happens with the actual execution of policy, but since this is specifically about policy (not about how it is carried out), then Q.E.D.

"Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo. So little time — so much to know!"

[anthonyvop]

To be fair the NSDAP didn't have a clearly defined set of aims within its manifesto.
From what I can gather, the central tenants of its 1930 election policies were thus:
- To ready Germany for war, through a strong military
- Increasing the size of the armed forces
- Reducing imported goods and manufacturing goods in Germany
- Manufacturing military goods, thereby decreasing unemployment
- Maintaining pay rates and living standards
- The building of/or an expansion of the rail and autobahn system
- Amalgamating "Greater Germany" through Lebensraum (which I assume means living space)
- Explicit Anti-Semitism and Anti-Semitic laws
- Deregulation of financial markets
- Increased reliance on the corporation, and co-government-corporation co-operation



Interesting how your view of the Nazis seemed to based on what you want others to believe.

The Idea that the Nazis wanted to deregulate the financial system is 100% false. The banks had to do whatever the Nazi leadership told them to do.

And stop using the G.O.P. and Conservatism as an interchangeable term. There are many current and past members of the G.O.P. who in no way would could be called Conservative.
Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford are among those.

[Rollo]

Interesting how your view of the Nazis seemed to based on what you want others to believe.

The Idea that the Nazis wanted to deregulate the financial system is 100% false. The banks had to do whatever the Nazi leadership told them to do.

100% False? There was the German Banking Act of 1934 which under the general trend of the "Reprivatisierung" policy, not only deregulated the banks, but saw a sell off of the German Government's 40% in DZ Bank entirely.

Perhaps you'd like to PROVE otherwise?


And stop using the G.O.P. and Conservatism as an interchangeable term. There are many current and past members of the G.O.P. who in no way would could be called Conservative.
Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford are among those.

I didn't say anything about Conservatism specifically. If you read chuck34's post and mine, nothing is mentioned about Conservatism. He was asking for a comparison of Nazi Party policy and Republican Party policy.
Putting words into someone's mouth and then arguing against that is a logical fallacy, otherwise known as a strawman. Please do try to construct and actual argument.

[Roamy]

Fixed that for you Foustina

Thank you Janice

[anthonyvop]

100% False? There was the German Banking Act of 1934 which under the general trend of the "Reprivatisierung" policy, not only deregulated the banks, but saw a sell off of the German Government's 40% in DZ Bank entirely.



Lets go back to 1938 Germany


Nazi Rep: "Excuse me Mr. Bank President but Chancellor Hitler would really be pleased if you would lend X amount of $$$ to the Acme printing company so they can increase production of Hitler Youth Posters."

Bank President: "I am sorry but please tell the Chancellor that lending money to Acme Printing would be a poor decision for us as they have a poor credit rating."

Nazi Rep: "But Chancellor Hitler insists that you provide the loan!"

Bank President: "Please explain to Herr Hitler that under the "German Banking Act of 1934" we are no longer under control of the German government so we won't lend them the money"

Nazi Rep: "May I borrow your phone?"

Nazi Rep speaking on the phone: "Hello SS Cattle Car Rail road? I would like to make a reservation for one on the Treblinka Express for our friend Mr. Bank President."

Bank President: "So how much does the Acme Printing Company need? Don't worry about interest"

Yea. German banks were deregulated.

[glauistean]

Spare me the ignorant left wing argument.

Fascism/Nazism is a from of socialism. It is in no way right-wing, conservative or any other label you want to label it.

Educate yourself.

Vop , you and Chuck 54 are in dire need of an education.
"The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader."

You whine and moan about questions not being answered, but never answer questions yourselves. Now I have stated all along that the Nazi's were right wing. If you can understand the above synopsis by one of the greatest experts, left or right where it portends to history I will be impressed. Arguining against the actual statement would make you look more idiotic than you already are.

Just one observation and point.

Point first/America is a wonderful country but drastically uneducated and ignorant of world affairs and history in comparison to the other developed countries. It is a country I love and my roots go back generations.

Observation/ It is sad for me to see so many of you here that are obviously American make moronic statements, Vop and Chuck.

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves for defending your ignorance becuase it does not fit your political point of view. It is people like you that have put a Hitler label on President Obama. Ignorant and crass.

Do what you want with your lame excuse for knowledge which you clearly don't have of anything remotely akin to history and how it has evolved. Pick up a book or two. I suggested the most comprehensive study of our times on the Third Reich written by an apolitical individual. Check it out of your local library. It will enlighten you although reading your posts it is diffiucult to say whether it will or not.

[F1boat]

Why do you argue with a ringwinger? What's the point? They don't know what communism is, what Nazism is and what socialism and social democracy are. They know only that they are right because Fox and some priests tells so. Being free means having tons of weapons and slaughtering muslims outside home and gays inside. Sorry for the simplistic view, but given the attitude of this people towards the EU or Obama, I can't take them seriously. BTW, we have such people in Europe as well - usually they are around 10% and vote for extreme right, Nazi like parties. The only sad thing is that in the USA, a country which represents the dream of freedom and which has given us great movies, books and scientists they are that many.

[ArrowsFA1]

Wikipedia?

Sorry but Wikipedia is the source for twits.
Wikipedia is not the source. If you care to look more closely at the link you will find specific referenced sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#References) (464 in total) for the information found there, as well as named historians & sociologists who have given their views on the subject of fascism's position in the political spectrum.

[Bob Riebe]

Vop , you and Chuck 54 are in dire need of an education.
"The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader."
.
Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance and with this bs bray, you are amplifying how ignorant you are.

The Nazis were member of a party, National Socialist German Workers' Party which had nothing to do with fascism, Mussolini was a fascist, not Hitler.
Fascism IS a form of government.

Your rhetoric makes you sound near illiterate.
-------------------------

http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

... Fascism, in short, is not only a law-giver and a founder of institutions, but an educator and a promoter of spiritual life. It aims at refashioning not only the forms of life but their content - man, his character, and his faith. To achieve this propose it enforces discipline and uses authority, entering into the soul and ruling with undisputed sway. Therefore it has chosen as its emblem the Lictor’s rods, the symbol of unity, strength, and justice.

POLITICAL AND SOCIAL DOCTRINE

When in the now distant March of 1919, speaking through the columns of the Popolo d'Italia I summoned to Milan the surviving interventionists who had intervened, and who had followed me ever since the foundation of the Fascist of revolutionary action in January 1915, I had in mind no specific doctrinal program. The only doctrine of which I had practical experience was that of socialism, from until the winter of 1914 - nearly a decade. My experience was that both of a follower and a leader but it was not doctrinal experience. My doctrine during that period had been the doctrine of action. A uniform, universally accepted doctrine of Socialism had not existed since 1905, when the revisionist movement, headed by Bernstein, arose in Germany, countered by the formation, in the see-saw of tendencies, of a left revolutionary movement which in Italy never quitted the field of phrases, whereas, in the case of Russian socialism, it became the prelude to Bolshevism.

Reformism, revolutionism, centrism, the very echo of that terminology is dead, while in the great river of Fascism one can trace currents which had their source in Sorel, Peguy, Lagardelle of the Movement Socialists, and in the cohort of Italian syndicalist who from 1904 to 1914 brought a new note into the Italian socialist environment - previously emasculated and chloroformed by fornicating with Giolitti's party - a note sounded in Olivetti's Pagine Libere, Orano's Lupa, Enrico Leone's Divenirs Socials.

When the war ended in 1919 Socialism, as a doctrine, was already dead; it continued to exist only as a grudge, especially in Italy where its only chance lay in inciting to reprisals against the men who had willed the war and who were to be made to pay for it.

The Popolo d'Italia described itself in its subtitle as the daily organ of fighters and producers. The word producer was already the expression of a mental trend. Fascism was not the nursling of a doctrine previously drafted at a desk; it was born of the need of action, and was action; it was not a party but, in the first two years, an anti-party and a movement. The name I gave the organization fixed its character....
-----------------------

On pondering, I think maybe you know full well that you are preaching bs, as you are the college professor type of troll, you post outlandishly obtuse items just to see who is gullible enough to respond thinking you are as poorly informed as your post make you out to be.
Either way it is still trolling.

[janvanvurpa]

Obviously, American Nazis want to rehabilitate the image of what they love so much, or---is that American fascists want to rehabilitate or..

Whatever the fad is, the Revisionism which has seen Contrarians and general haters try and twist language and transform and confuse the meaning of words is obvious.

As the kids say Obvious Troll is Obvious...

Nazis weren't Fascists
Nazi were Socialists
Democratic Party is Nazi
Democratic Party is Socialist
The utterly idiotic 100% certain mark of an idiot: We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic"

Clearly the idiots Masters have been on a campaign toremold langue by first destroying it...

And, with people with no minds, it works.

Sorry Bob, you're confused.

[Bob Riebe]

[quote="janvanvurpa"]Obviously, American Nazis want to rehabilitate the image of what they love so much, or---is that American fascists want to rehabilitate or..

Whatever the fad is, the Revisionism which has seen Contrarians and general haters try and twist language and transform and confuse the meaning of words is obvious.

As the kids say Obvious Troll is Obvious...

Nazis weren't Fascists
Nazi were Socialists
Democratic Party is Nazi
Democratic Party is Socialist

The utterly idiotic 100% certain mark of an idiot: We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic"-- Anyone who thinks that statement is wrong, concerning the U.S. is an obtuse ignoramus.
Beyond that you are poorly educated.


\

[Eki]

Obviously, American Nazis want to rehabilitate the image of what they love so much, or---is that American fascists want to rehabilitate or..

Whatever the fad is, the Revisionism which has seen Contrarians and general haters try and twist language and transform and confuse the meaning of words is obvious.

As the kids say Obvious Troll is Obvious...

Nazis weren't Fascists
Nazi were Socialists
Democratic Party is Nazi
Democratic Party is Socialist

The utterly idiotic 100% certain mark of an idiot: We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic"-- Anyone who thinks that statement is wrong, concerning the U.S. is an obtuse ignoramus.
Beyond that you are poorly educated.


\
You admit that the US is undemocratic? That's what I've been saying.

Peoples' Democratic Republic of North Korea claim that they are both democratic and a republic, but I say they are just a republic, like the US.

[Bob Riebe]

You admit that the US is undemocratic? That's what I've been saying.
What is undemocratic about a Democratic Republic?

Your point?

[Eki]

What is undemocratic about a Democratic Republic?

Your point?
They just claim it's democratic, but in reality only a small better-off elite rule and have a say, not everyone together like in a democracy. Just like the Nazis tried to fool people by claiming they were socialists, when they weren't.

[chuck34]

- National Defense:"maintaining a robust defense against threats arising from nuclear proliferation, including a strong ballistic missile defense for America..."
This would sit quite nicely within the 1930 NSDAP election manifesto. I find the phrase "Peace through Strength" curiously close to "Kraft durch Freude" or Strength Through Joy which was the name of part of NSDAP's German Labour Front. Also, why is it that United States seems to go so readily to war in the first place?

In 1930, the Nazis did not want anyone to know of their ultimate aims of unifying all German speakers. And since they weren't quite prepared to carry out that vision it would have been stupid to broadcast said goals. However, history proves out that the German national defense wasn't exaclty for defense, but rather expansion. The US goes to war to protect ourselves and our allies. The Nazi's went to war for expansion. Not quite the same thing.


- Health Care: "We oppose government run health care, which won't protect the physician-patient relationship, won't promote competition..."
In other words, the GOP wants an "Increased reliance on the corporation", which again would reflect the 1930 NSDAP election manifesto.

The Nazi's vision of a corporation was not quite the same as the US's. The Nazis would place one of their party members at the head of corporations, or intimidate them into submission, in order to ensure that Hitler could get what he wanted when he wanted. The GOP doesn't do that. Let's think who's at the head of GM now? Hmmmmm.


- Economy: "We believe in the power of America's free-market economy. We believe in the importance of sensible business regulations that promote confidence in our economy among consumers, entrepreneurs and businesses alike."
Would this involve the "Deregulation of financial markets" by any chance?

If you honestly think that the free-market system was at work in Nazi Germany, I think we're done here with our conversation.


- As for the "autobahn system", well obviously the United States doesn't have anything similar at all does it? Well nothing except the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways. Eisenhower by the way was a member of which political party?

So there you have it folks, since the US has an interstate highway system that was inspired by the autobahn, and the highways were created by a Republican ... that is the definitive PROOF that the GOP are all just Nazis in disguise. Seriously, did you think about what you wrote?


- Perhaps the GOP isn't Anti-Semitic, but I wonder to what degree the Tea Party which is otherwise an astroturf movement funded by the same backers as the GOP, also happens to enmesh with the severe Anti-Muslim sentiment sweeping the United States (just with a different target).

Yep, all the Republicans and T.E.A. Party people are out there just rounding up Muslims, making them wear cresents pinned to their shirts. Come on, for a minute I thought you might have actually wanted to have a serious conversation.

And if you honestly think that the T.E.A. party movement is somehow a funded organization I know a lot of people that would like to start seeing those checks clear.


- Of course the judge of character happens to be how one acts and all of this only happens with the actual execution of policy, but since this is specifically about policy (not about how it is carried out), then Q.E.D.

"Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo. So little time — so much to know!"

Yep it's all about the execution of policy. We all saw how Hitler carried out his policies. And we all saw how GWB (who some would like to believe was the second comming of Hitler) carried out his policies. If you think they were really comparable, then again, we're done.

[Bob Riebe]

They just claim it's democratic, but in reality only a small better-off elite rule and have a say, not everyone together like in a democracy. Just like the Nazis tried to fool people by claiming they were socialists, when they weren't.
In a democracy the majority rules, period; if you are not of the majority you do not count, period.

Sounds like horrible.

[Eki]

And we all saw how GWB (who some would like to believe was the second comming of Hitler) carried out his policies. If you think they were really comparable, then again, we're done.
Well, GWB invaded Iraq and Afghanistan just like Hitler invaded Poland and Czechoslovakia. And they both were eager warmongers against perceived "enemies of the homeland".

[janvanvurpa]

Obviously, American Nazis want to rehabilitate the image of what they love so much, or---is that American fascists want to rehabilitate or..

Whatever the fad is, the Revisionism which has seen Contrarians and general haters try and twist language and transform and confuse the meaning of words is obvious.

As the kids say Obvious Troll is Obvious...

Nazis weren't Fascists
Nazi were Socialists
Democratic Party is Nazi
Democratic Party is Socialist

The utterly idiotic 100% certain mark of an idiot: We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic"-- Anyone who thinks that statement is wrong, concerning the U.S. is an obtuse ignoramus.
Beyond that you are poorly educated.


\

Riebe, you, next to a few other over-the-top plagiarists and "ditto-heads" are the poster-boy of Revisionism and misuse of words to try and confuse the insure and make all dialog a mere shouting match.

I repeat: The 'serious' use of that recieved phrase is a marker of a mindless, unthinking moronic idiot.

Don't embarrass yourself further.

For those readers anywhere else who have not witness the relentless attack on the ideas of a representative democracy from these disgusting neanderthal authoritarians like the active Americans on Chit chat, Fousto, Riebe, etc etc etc here is a little brief overview to help clarify what is the objective---it does point out that the lumpen-contrarians here are jsut repeating a new-ish revision of words most languages have accepted to mean
such as Democracy--(they have decided to use it in one narrow sense already passing from ordinary usage in the early 1800s and pretend that is the ONLY meaning..


Neo-republicanism

This new school of historical revisionism has accompanied a general revival of republican thinking. In recent years a great number of thinkers have argued that republican ideas should be adopted. This new thinking is sometimes referred to as neo-republicanism. Engeman referred to republicanism as "an intellectual buzzword" that has been applied to a wide range of theories and postulates that have little in common in order to give them a certain cachet.

The most important theorists in this movement are Philip Pettit and Cass Sunstein who have each written a number of works defining republicanism and how it differs from liberalism. While a late convert to republicanism from communitarianism, Michael Sandel is perhaps the most prominent advocate in the United States for replacing or supplementing liberalism with republicanism as outlined in his Democracy's Discontent: America in Search of a Public Philosophy. As of yet these theorists have had little impact on government. John W. Maynor, argues that Bill Clinton was interested in these notions and that he integrated some of them into his 1995 "new social compact" State of the Union Address.

This revival also has its critics. David Wootton, for instance, argues that throughout history the meanings of the term republicanism have been so diverse, and at times contradictory, that the term is all but meaningless and any attempt to build a cogent ideology based on it will fail.
[edit] Democracy
Thomas Paine
A revolutionary Republican hand-written bill from the Stockholm riots during the Revolutions of 1848, reading: "Dethrone Oscar he is not fit to be a king rather the Republic! The Reform! down with the Royal house, long live Aftonbladet! death to the king / Republic Republic the people. Brunkeberg this evening". The writer's identity is unknown.

Republicanism is a system that replaces or accompanies inherited rule. The keys are a positive emphasis on liberty, and a negative rejection of corruption.[12] In the late 20th century there has been so much convergence between democracy and republicanism that confusion results. As a distinct political theory, republicanism originated in classical history and became important in early modern Europe, as typfied by Machiavelli. It became especially important as a cause of the American Revolution and the French Revolution in the 1770s and 1790s, respectively.[2] Republicans in these particular instances tended to reject inherited elites and aristocracies, but the question was open amongst them whether the republic, in order to restrain unchecked majority rule, should have an unelected upper chamber, the members perhaps appointed meritorious experts, or should have a constitutional monarch.[13]

Although conceptually separate from democracy, republicanism included the key principles of rule by the consent of the governed and sovereignty of the people. In effect republicanism meant that the kings and aristocracies were not the real rulers, but rather the people as a whole were. Exactly how the people were to rule was an issue of democracy – republicanism itself did not specify how.[14] In the United States, the solution was the creation of political parties that were popularly based on the votes of the people, and which controlled the government (see Republicanism in the United States)
. Many exponents of republicanism, such as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson were strong promoters of representative democracy. However, other supporters of republicanism, such as John Adams and Alexander Hamilton, were more distrustful of majority rule and sought a government with more power for elites. There were similar debates in many other democratizing nations.[15]
[edit] Democracy and republic

In contemporary usage, the term democracy refers to a government chosen by the people, whether it is direct or representative.[16] The term republic has many different meanings, but today often refers to a representative democracy with an elected head of state, such as a president, serving for a limited term, in contrast to states with a hereditary monarch as a head of state, even if these states also are representative democracies with an elected or appointed head of government such as a prime minister.[17]

The Founding Fathers of the United States rarely praised and often criticized democracy, which in their time tended to specifically mean direct democracy; James Madison argued, especially in The Federalist No. 10, that what distinguished a democracy from a republic was that the former became weaker as it got larger and suffered more violently from the effects of faction, whereas a republic could get stronger as it got larger and combats faction by its very structure. What was critical to American values, John Adams insisted,[18] was that the government be "bound by fixed laws, which the people have a voice in making, and a right to defend."
[edit] Constitutional monarchs and upper chambers


When a person is basically a dishonest person and uses words in dialog, in effect intending to imply a particular and peculiar idea not generally or commonly agreed on, then dialog with such a person is impossible..
And whatever knuckle-scrapers such as Bob Riebe and Fousto/Roamy etc want to call themselves, they have made even the pretense of a reasonable discourse in USA impossible..

That which remains is only ridicule and parody.

[janvanvurpa]

In a democracy the majority rules, period; if you are not of the majority you do not count, period.

Sounds like horrible.

You are an idiot.
Try entering the 1800s---oh wait that was done already 200 years ago....

[Eki]

In a democracy the majority rules, period; if you are not of the majority you do not count, period.

Sounds like horrible.
Yes, democracy in that interpretation sounds horrible. Like someone had in his signature: "Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what to have for dinner. Freedom is when the sheep has a gun", which sounds equally horrible. The US has pushed that kind of democracy to Iraq, where the majority Shiites rule and the minority Sunnis don't count.

[chuck34]

Vop , you and Chuck 54 are in dire need of an education.
"The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader."

Do you honestly think that the above description of the Nazi Party is also a description of the Republican Party in the US, or the T.E.A. Party? Now who's the idiot?

The GOP stands for the maximization of freedom for the individual. Hardly a totalitarian ideal. Who is this charismatic leader whom is trying to estabilsh this control? What policy are the Republicans in Congress pushing where the individual being subordinated to "advance the interests of the state"? What is the name of the paramilitary organization that the GOP has under their control to "stifle dissent and terrorize opposition", and presumably denigrate "non-Aryans"?


You whine and moan about questions not being answered, but never answer questions yourselves. Now I have stated all along that the Nazi's were right wing. If you can understand the above synopsis by one of the greatest experts, left or right where it portends to history I will be impressed. Arguining against the actual statement would make you look more idiotic than you already are.

What questions have you asked that I have not answered? I will answer them for you.

Yes we know that you have stated all along that the Nazis were right wing. No on is disputing that. I just don't think that the same definition of "right-wing" can be used to describe the GOP and the Nazi party.
Just one observation and point.


Point first/America is a wonderful country but drastically uneducated and ignorant of world affairs and history in comparison to the other developed countries. It is a country I love and my roots go back generations.

So by that statement I presume that you are American as well, or at least of American heritage. So when you Americans moronic/stupid/hypocritic? you are also refering to yourself. Oh but I suppose you have recieved some sort of "divine knowlege" that sets you apart from all of "us" lowly morons? So you must now impart all of your vast knowlege onto "us". That story seems strangely familiar. Hmmm....

Come on rational people can have a difference of opinion, that does not make them stupid, nor moronic, nor any other derogitory word you may come up with. Drop the insulting tone and maybe you could have a civil conversation that all parties may learn from.


Observation/ It is sad for me to see so many of you here that are obviously American make moronic statements, Vop and Chuck.

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves for defending your ignorance becuase it does not fit your political point of view. It is people like you that have put a Hitler label on President Obama. Ignorant and crass.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making so many crass and ignorant statements about someone you have a difference of opinion with. At the very least back up what you say. The "historians describe the Nazis as right-wing, therefore Republicans are Nazis" argument is just stupid especially if you present no actual evidence to back it up.


Do what you want with your lame excuse for knowledge which you clearly don't have of anything remotely akin to history and how it has evolved. Pick up a book or two. I suggested the most comprehensive study of our times on the Third Reich written by an apolitical individual. Check it out of your local library. It will enlighten you although reading your posts it is diffiucult to say whether it will or not.

If you are under the delusion that I have not read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich let me clear that up for you, I have. Now perhaps you could pick up an number of the thousands of OTHER books that are out there as well. But reading your posts I don't think any of them would get past your thick skull, as you seem unwilling to accept anything that does not fit with your opinion.



Oh yeah, why are you still hiding "glauistean", tell us the other names you have/are used.

[chuck34]

Well, GWB invaded Iraq and Afghanistan just like Hitler invaded Poland and Czechoslovakia. And they both were eager warmongers against perceived "enemies of the homeland".

No, not the same at all. Poland an Czechoslovakia were anexed into the Third Reich. We have done no such thing in Iraq and Afghanistan, in fact we have taken great pains to ensure that a stable representative government is set up in either country. Also, we are in the process of pulling out of Iraq (in an agreement signed by GWB), and the Afghan withdraw will start soon.

[chuck34]

They just claim it's democratic, but in reality only a small better-off elite rule and have a say, not everyone together like in a democracy. Just like the Nazis tried to fool people by claiming they were socialists, when they weren't.

The US is NOT a democracy. I agree though that for too long a small group of elite have ruled. However, the people are starting to reject that, much to the dismay of the "Party Leaders" on both sides.

[Eki]

No, not the same at all. Poland an Czechoslovakia were anexed into the Third Reich. We have done no such thing in Iraq and Afghanistan, in fact we have taken great pains to ensure that a stable representative government is set up in either country. Also, we are in the process of pulling out of Iraq (in an agreement signed by GWB), and the Afghan withdraw will start soon..
Hitler didn't annex Poland, Czechoslovakia or any other country to Germany, instead he set up friendly puppet governments in those countries, just like Bush in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

[Bob Riebe]

You are an idiot.
Try entering the 1800s---oh wait that was done already 200 years ago....
Such cute rhetoric, it fits your style and intellect.

[Bob Riebe]

Yes, democracy in that interpretation sounds horrible. Like someone had in his signature: "Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what to have for dinner. Freedom is when the sheep has a gun", which sounds equally horrible.
No it does not to a thinking person.

[Bob Riebe]

Riebe, you, next to a few other over-the-top plagiarists and "ditto-heads" are the poster-boy of Revisionism and misuse of words to try and confuse the insure and make all dialog a mere shouting match.

I repeat: The 'serious' use of that recieved phrase is a marker of a mindless, unthinking moronic idiot.

Don't embarrass yourself further.

For those readers anywhere else who have not witness the relentless attack on the ideas of a representative democracy from these disgusting neanderthal authoritarians like the active Americans on Chit chat, Fousto, Riebe, etc etc etc here is a little brief overview to help clarify what is the objective---it does point out that the lumpen-contrarians here are jsut repeating a new-ish revision of words most languages have accepted to mean
such as Democracy--(they have decided to use it in one narrow sense already passing from ordinary usage in the early 1800s and pretend that is the ONLY meaning..



When a person is basically a dishonest person and uses words in dialog, in effect intending to imply a particular and peculiar idea not generally or commonly agreed on, then dialog with such a person is impossible..
And whatever knuckle-scrapers such as Bob Riebe and Fousto/Roamy etc want to call themselves, they have made even the pretense of a reasonable discourse in USA impossible..

That which remains is only ridicule and parody.
I do not know who wrote your twisted corruption of grammar, you posted, but it fits your style.

You belong to the group who bray forth bs because words mean things and if the meaning does not fit their lying dogma, they make up new meaning and attack those who use literal verses make-believe grammer.

Basically semi-literate liars.

[Bob Riebe]

Riebe, you, next to a few other over-the-top plagiarists and "ditto-heads" are the poster-boy of Revisionism and misuse of words to try and confuse the insure and make all dialog a mere shouting match.

I repeat: The 'serious' use of that recieved phrase is a marker of a mindless, unthinking moronic idiot.

Don't embarrass yourself further.

For those readers anywhere else who have not witness the relentless attack on the ideas of a representative democracy from these disgusting neanderthal authoritarians like the active Americans on Chit chat, Fousto, Riebe, etc etc etc here is a little brief overview to help clarify what is the objective---it does point out that the lumpen-contrarians here are jsut repeating a new-ish revision of words most languages have accepted to mean
such as Democracy--(they have decided to use it in one narrow sense already passing from ordinary usage in the early 1800s and pretend that is the ONLY meaning.--



When a person is basically a dishonest person and uses words in dialog, in effect intending to imply a particular and peculiar idea not generally or commonly agreed on, then dialog with such a person is impossible..
And whatever knuckle-scrapers such as Bob Riebe and Fousto/Roamy etc want to call themselves, they have made even the pretense of a reasonable discourse in USA impossible..

That which remains is only ridicule and parody.
I do not know who wrote your twisted corruption of grammar and the English language, you copied, but it fits your style.

You belong to the group who bray forth bs because words mean things and if the meaning does not fit their lying dogma, they make up a new meaning and attack those who use correct definition verses their make-believe I cannot think of any honest words to defend my bs dogma.

Semi-literate liars.

Basically vurpy, you are the poster boy for why the Democratic Party uses a Jack-Ass to represent them.

[TOgoFASTER]

http://www.unity.i8i.co.uk/forum/images/smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

[janvanvurpa]

I do not know who wrote your twisted corruption of grammar and the English language, you copied, but it fits your style.

You belong to the group who bray forth bs because words mean things and if the meaning does not fit their lying dogma, they make up a new meaning and attack those who use correct definition verses their make-believe I cannot think of any honest words to defend my bs dogma.

Semi-literate liars.

Basically vurpy, you are the poster boy for why the Democratic Party uses a Jack-Ass to represent them.


So Bob, unable to expend the minimal effort at addressing even one point, since you are obviously too lazy to think for yourself even on a discussion forum, you resort to nothing but pure insult.

I insult people like you who have nearly ruined my country but I reference your words.

Like most anti-democratic, anti-intellect, whatever you are (you and your gang of haters here defiling my flag and crapping all over everything that this country stands for at it's best, are not conservatives and are not anything but pure manifestations of hate---regardless of what you imagine your "position" to be) your merely parry and rant...
Maybe that's why Americans like you give America a reputation as a-historic, and cowardly and never able to engage anybody else in a discussion.
"My way or the highway" must be your motto.
"For Freedom or with the Terr'ists"
You show you're not "for" freedom.

Why do you hate America?

[Bob Riebe]

So Bob, unable to expend the minimal effort at addressing even one point, since you are obviously too lazy to think for yourself even on a discussion forum, you resort to nothing but pure insult.

I insult people like you who have nearly ruined my country but I reference your words.

Like most anti-democratic, anti-intellect, whatever you are (you and your gang of haters here defiling my flag and crapping all over everything that this country stands for at it's best, are not conservatives and are not anything but pure manifestations of hate---regardless of what you imagine your "position" to be) your merely parry and rant...
Maybe that's why Americans like you give America a reputation as a-historic, and cowardly and never able to engage anybody else in a discussion.
"My way or the highway" must be your motto.
"For Freedom or with the Terr'ists"
You show you're not "for" freedom.

Why do you hate America?
I'M rubber, YOU'RE glue....

[Rollo]

I was going to contribute something to this, but since this is little more than a series of ad hominem attacks, it's hardly worth the effort.

Serious discussion is impossible.

"Tea and Cake with the vicar OR YOU DIE"
"Little Red Cookbook, Little Red Cookbook"

[glauistean]

Do you honestly think that the above description of the Nazi Party is also a description of the Republican Party in the US, or the T.E.A. Party? Now who's the idiot?

The GOP stands for the maximization of freedom for the individual. Hardly a totalitarian ideal. Who is this charismatic leader whom is trying to estabilsh this control? What policy are the Republicans in Congress pushing where the individual being subordinated to "advance the interests of the state"? What is the name of the paramilitary organization that the GOP has under their control to "stifle dissent and terrorize opposition", and presumably denigrate "non-Aryans"?



What questions have you asked that I have not answered? I will answer them for you.

Yes we know that you have stated all along that the Nazis were right wing. No on is disputing that. I just don't think that the same definition of "right-wing" can be used to describe the GOP and the Nazi party.
Just one observation and point.



So by that statement I presume that you are American as well, or at least of American heritage. So when you Americans moronic/stupid/hypocritic? you are also refering to yourself. Oh but I suppose you have recieved some sort of "divine knowlege" that sets you apart from all of "us" lowly morons? So you must now impart all of your vast knowlege onto "us". That story seems strangely familiar. Hmmm....

Come on rational people can have a difference of opinion, that does not make them stupid, nor moronic, nor any other derogitory word you may come up with. Drop the insulting tone and maybe you could have a civil conversation that all parties may learn from.



You should be ashamed of yourself for making so many crass and ignorant statements about someone you have a difference of opinion with. At the very least back up what you say. The "historians describe the Nazis as right-wing, therefore Republicans are Nazis" argument is just stupid especially if you present no actual evidence to back it up.



If you are under the delusion that I have not read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich let me clear that up for you, I have. Now perhaps you could pick up an number of the thousands of OTHER books that are out there as well. But reading your posts I don't think any of them would get past your thick skull, as you seem unwilling to accept anything that does not fit with your opinion.



Oh yeah, why are you still hiding "glauistean", tell us the other names you have/are used.

The more I read other posters impressions of you the more it is easy for me to agree.

I never once said that the Nazi party was like the Tea Party or qananything to that effect. What I did say and this is true. The Nazi party (right wing) is more and has more in common with your points of view than the idiots brandishish moustaches on President Obama. God, what would have happened if that was done to Cheney or Bush. You laud idiots like Malkin, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and so may others. two addicts giving you points of view. Oh yes. Just like that pillar of morality Goering(drug addict).

I know you have not read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Your're too obtuse and your responses reflect that. Another good one for you would be Marching Orders. Try that. Tyranny on Trial,Henchmen Today. Neo- Nazism in the US. There are many more and if you want to discuss why you and your neo conservative movement is not too far removed from the the views of Goebbels and Himmler, Heydrich and of course Hitler I will be very pleased to engage.

Reading your faux indignation over a statement made by one of the great thinkers of our time and then framing that asinine "I'm insulted" into a conservative , Tea Part issue was an attempt by you to change the very point you had disagreed with in order to make yourself look somewhat reasonable. You're not. Your ignorant, your uneducated.
Cuck34 has given you an education on what occured with countries occupied by the Wermacht. Do you understand him.

As for my American heritage I don't have to answer to you or anyone else when I see what has happened in the course of 18 months of President Obama as he tries to get this country on track only for your party stonewalling everything he has tried to clear up the 8 year mess created by Bush and Cheney.

I have family that lawyers, one federal judge, four high ranking police offcers, one nephew that is in a job that most are unaware of what itis exactly.
I have a Phd in pharmacology and psychology.

My love of my country is very dear to me, but , when I see what you write and others on the forum I am ashamed that others such as the posters from England and other countries. Well done. You must be proud.

[airshifter]

I was going to contribute something to this, but since this is little more than a series of ad hominem attacks, it's hardly worth the effort.

Serious discussion is impossible.



... and for the most part, a series of chest thumping, self serving, "holier than thou", assuming, often party based, ad hominem attacks. :D

We must have the same political views, otherwise based on this thread we could not agree on anything. Which is a good thing, because I'd hate to have to take the time to type a long winded post claiming to have all the worlds answers, while also stating that you are the arrogant one in the discussion.


I often wonder how much alcohol is involved in many of these long winded pompous rants. :laugh:

[steve_spackman]

Ahhhhhhh....

Another Europeans are better than Americans rant!

If Europe is so great how come there are so many of them in the USA?

Dont flatter yourself...YOU are very good at this

I could ask you why there are so many Americans in other countries? If the US is so great why do Americans cry out for European products and lure Europeans into jobs in US companies and enjoy the European lifestyle????

[steve_spackman]

VOP and CHUCK

T.E.A baggers


A misinformed, right-wing corporate media consumer who often fails to understand that BOTH major parties represent a corrupt plutocracy that steals from the middle class by taxing labor and profiting from corporate tax subsid...ies.

A teabagger also often fails to acknowledge that George W. Bush and his neo-conservative minions perpetrated one of the boldest and most egregious executive power grabs in the history of the United States. Furthermore, teabaggers mistakenly continue to blame a newly elected President Obama for all that ails the United States of America, based on a grossly flawed perception of reality (including latent racial prejudice) and despite the fact the U.S. economy collapsed on the previous administration's watch.

Teabaggers are also known to base their misguided, right-wing-media-inspired beliefs about President Obama on stupid conspiracy theories about totalitarian takeovers, FEMA camps, etc., despite the fact these very same theories have been circulating around on the Internet for years, and were originally ascribed to neo-conservative cabalists at a time when Barack Obama had not even entered national politics. Teabaggers also are known to be particularly paranoid, xenophobic and intolerant, especially with regard to immigrants and anyone who isn't white.

Additionally, teabaggers generally echo stupid myths about entitlement spending (it actually only accounts for about 1% of federal budget spending), have no idea that most poor people in America are not lazy, actually do work and don't want to be on welfare, and have no idea what socialism actually means or that socialist reform in this country is actually what allowed a middle class to flourish and ultimately make the U.S. one of the most prosperous nations in human history.

Furthermore, teabaggers incorrectly equate socialism with Stalin ism, think a system that rewards greed (capitalism) is the divine preference (despite Gospel evidence to the contrary), and are shameless champions of a misguided belief in American exceptional ism. Teabaggers also fail to recognize the inherently unpatriotic nature of their failed every-man-for-himself ideology that ultimately vilifies anyone who supports public policy aimed at reaching out to fellow Americans in need. They celebrate an exploitative corporatocracy (holy creator of jobs, blah blah blah) while denigrating the little guy for being "weak."

Interestingly, teabaggers uphold an immoral, morbidly obese, twice divorced, draft-dodging, college dropout and known drug addict as their de facto leader, and are even known to advocate burning books. Of course, teabaggers fail to recognize the blatant hypocrisy within the GOP and tend to oversimplify all political debate and social issues, much like their pseudo-intellectual, fat-@#$% leader.

Finally, incredibly, teabaggers fail to recognize the hysterical double enterprise associated with their proudly adopted teabag moniker.

Every village has its idiots, of course, but it's sad when citizens of any nation allow themselves to be whipped into a frenzy en masse by a state-run propaganda machine masquerading as a legitimate, fair, balanced and independent news organization. Teabaggers are right to believe the future of the U.S.A. is in jeopardy, but sadly they have not yet correctly identified the real enemy. Perhaps when teabaggers finally grow up and mature into thinking adults, they will see the right-leaning power establishment for the oppressive and cunning beast that it is.

Oh and using the word TEA is not so clever...maybe knowing the real reason behind the Boston tea raid would perhaps make these idiots look more..idiotic

[steve_spackman]

VOP and CHUCK...

The Fiction of Freedom in America: The "American Dream" of Social Inequality, Discrimination and Poverty

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18967

[chuck34]

I never once said that the Nazi party was like the Tea Party or qananything to that effect. What I did say and this is true. The Nazi party (right wing) is more and has more in common with your points of view than the idiots brandishish moustaches on President Obama. God, what would have happened if that was done to Cheney or Bush.

Drop the condesention and answer my original question ... Other than being labeled "right-wing", what exactly does the GOP, T.E.A. Party, or my views have to do with the Nazi party? Simple question that has been asked of you at least three times now and you have dodged all three times. At least Rollo tried to answer it.

And you really think that no one compared Bush or Cheney to Hitler? The Devil? The most hated men in the world? Give me a break. What in the world does that have to do with anything anyway?


You laud idiots like Malkin, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and so may others. two addicts giving you points of view. Oh yes. Just like that pillar of morality Goering(drug addict).

Where have I said anything about any of those people? I think for myself. Perhaps if you would stop listening to Ed Shultz, Olberman, and Maddow, you'd be able to think for yourself too.


I know you have not read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Your're too obtuse and your responses reflect that. Another good one for you would be Marching Orders. Try that. Tyranny on Trial,Henchmen Today. Neo- Nazism in the US. There are many more and if you want to discuss why you and your neo conservative movement is not too far removed from the the views of Goebbels and Himmler, Heydrich and of course Hitler I will be very pleased to engage.

You have no idea what I've read or have not.

You are clarly NOT willing to engage in a discussion of the supposed conservative/Nazi connection as I have asked you at least three times now to tell us all what policies the two share, and all you do is come back with idiotic ranting about how stupid/moronic/ignorant I (and all other Americans) are. That is not discussion. Stop the attacks.


Reading your faux indignation over a statement made by one of the great thinkers of our time and then framing that asinine "I'm insulted" into a conservative , Tea Part issue was an attempt by you to change the very point you had disagreed with in order to make yourself look somewhat reasonable. You're not. Your ignorant, your uneducated.
Cuck34 has given you an education on what occured with countries occupied by the Wermacht. Do you understand him.

Again you have no idea what my education is. So far all you have done is insult me or anyone who has a difference of opinion with you. Stop calling people ignorant and uneducated, and discuss the points. If you honestly want to have a discussion on the topic (I'm fairly sure you do not, as you only seem to want to insult people to "prove" how intelligent you are), then discuss the topic and drop the insults. Is that so hard? If I'm so wrong, prove it to me, and others.


As for my American heritage I don't have to answer to you or anyone else when I see what has happened in the course of 18 months of President Obama as he tries to get this country on track only for your party stonewalling everything he has tried to clear up the 8 year mess created by Bush and Cheney.

Sure Bush made mistakes, big ones. I'll admit that, as I think most conservatives will. But that doesn't mean that we should allow even bigger mistakes happen. And the mess we are in now wasn't created soley by Bush/Cheney, it goes WAAAAAY farther back than that, many Presidents/Senators/Congressmen from BOTH political parties can be blamed for this.


I have family that lawyers, one federal judge, four high ranking police offcers, one nephew that is in a job that most are unaware of what itis exactly.
I have a Phd in pharmacology and psychology.

Good for you. Is that supposed to impress me somehow?


My love of my country is very dear to me, but , when I see what you write and others on the forum I am ashamed that others such as the posters from England and other countries. Well done. You must be proud.

I am proud of what I've written. I try to stick to the topic at hand. Although I do get pulled down by people like you into the personal insult BS. I try to avoid that, but I don't always. I have put forward ideas as to why I believe that the current conservative movement is NOT like the Nazi party. For your part you have not progressed that conversation/debate/discussion one bit. You only insult people. Are you proud of that?

[chuck34]

.
Hitler didn't annex Poland, Czechoslovakia or any other country to Germany, instead he set up friendly puppet governments in those countries, just like Bush in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

Really?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=88

How about Austria?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=86

Poland? Well that wasn't nearly as peacefull a takeover.

And do you really think that Karzai, or al-Maliki are puppet's of Bush? I know this will come as a shock to you, but George W Bush no longer has any power to do anything.

[chuck34]

I was going to contribute something to this, but since this is little more than a series of ad hominem attacks, it's hardly worth the effort.

Serious discussion is impossible.

"Tea and Cake with the vicar OR YOU DIE"
"Little Red Cookbook, Little Red Cookbook"

Come on Rollo. At least you put forth some ideas. I apologize for getting a bit carried away in my response to you. It seems that we could have an intelligent debate. How 'bout it?

[Eki]

Really?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=88

How about Austria?
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=86

Poland? Well that wasn't nearly as peacefull a takeover.

And do you really think that Karzai, or al-Maliki are puppet's of Bush? I know this will come as a shock to you, but George W Bush no longer has any power to do anything.
Puppets of the US, not just Bush.

OK, I may have been wrong about Czechoslovakia, but the current Iraqi and Afghan governments surely resemble the Vichy government of France and the Quisling government of Norway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling_regime

And according to your link, there was a puppet government also in Czechoslovakia, so not all of it was annexed to Germany:


On 17 Mar, Hitler and his entourage reached Vienna, Austria, where they he decided to install President Jozef Tiso as the head of the puppet government of the Slovak Republic; that puppet state occupied the southeastern half of Czechoslovakia.

[glauistean]

Drop the condesention and answer my original question ... Other than being labeled "right-wing", what exactly does the GOP, T.E.A. Party, or my views have to do with the Nazi party? Simple question that has been asked of you at least three times now and you have dodged all three times. At least Rollo tried to answer it.

And you really think that no one compared Bush or Cheney to Hitler? The Devil? The most hated men in the world? Give me a break. What in the world does that have to do with anything anyway?

Your're doing it again. Same as all you wingers do. You never address what is being discussed. You isolate comments and then try to make them an issue.

Inference is what is being spoken of. If I said that Einstein recognized the Theory of Realtivity I could be correct or not , but most educated people know that in fact it was known as the NEW theory .....

You bring up names you did not mention. We all know that. No need for you to point it out. It just further displays your ignorance. The association of these people to the points you are making is what counts. Comprende(sic)



Where have I said anything about any of those people? I think for myself. Perhaps if you would stop listening to Ed Shultz, Olberman, and Maddow, you'd be able to think for yourself too.



You have no idea what I've read or have not.

You are clarly NOT willing to engage in a discussion of the supposed conservative/Nazi connection as I have asked you at least three times now to tell us all what policies the two share, and all you do is come back with idiotic ranting about how stupid/moronic/ignorant I (and all other Americans) are. That is not discussion. Stop the attacks.



Again you have no idea what my education is. So far all you have done is insult me or anyone who has a difference of opinion with you. Stop calling people ignorant and uneducated, and discuss the points. If you honestly want to have a discussion on the topic (I'm fairly sure you do not, as you only seem to want to insult people to "prove" how intelligent you are), then discuss the topic and drop the insults. Is that so hard? If I'm so wrong, prove it to me, and others.



Sure Bush made mistakes, big ones. I'll admit that, as I think most conservatives will. But that doesn't mean that we should allow even bigger mistakes happen. And the mess we are in now wasn't created soley by Bush/Cheney, it goes WAAAAAY farther back than that, many Presidents/Senators/Congressmen from BOTH political parties can be blamed for this.



Good for you. Is that supposed to impress me somehow?



I am proud of what I've written. I try to stick to the topic at hand. Although I do get pulled down by people like you into the personal insult BS. I try to avoid that, but I don't always. I have put forward ideas as to why I believe that the current conservative movement is NOT like the Nazi party. For your part you have not progressed that conversation/debate/discussion one bit. You only insult people. Are you proud of that?

You again are assuming. You don't understand "association". You are of the belief that I watch olbermann (two n's). I do not. I don't watch Maddow either , but that is irrelevent as are you.

I have never said that the conservative movement is like the Nazi party. If you were able to deduce from my statements that would be very clear to you. The substace of what was said..now pay attention... Teas Party goer's(sic) and conservatives or any right wing organization has more in common with the ideals of the nazi's than liberals or democrats because of the right leaning positions of their party. Now, move along because it is boring having to explain the simplistic and sad for me to know that 40million or so of your kind don't know or even understand this simple important political credo.

[chuck34]

You again are assuming. You don't understand "association". You are of the belief that I watch olbermann (two n's). I do not. I don't watch Maddow either , but that is irrelevent as are you.

I have never said that the conservative movement is like the Nazi party. If you were able to deduce from my statements that would be very clear to you. The substace of what was said..now pay attention... Teas Party goer's(sic) and conservatives or any right wing organization has more in common with the ideals of the nazi's than liberals or democrats because of the right leaning positions of their party. Now, move along because it is boring having to explain the simplistic and sad for me to know that 40million or so of your kind don't know or even understand this simple important political credo.

If your whole point is that the T.E.A. party and conservatives are labeled "right-wing" and that the Nazi party was also labeled "right-wing", you and I have no argument. They are both labeled as "right-wing".

Now I, and many others, find this label to be very much mis-applied as there isn't much (or any) correlation between the two ideologies. So I asked you what specific policies the two groups share.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Nazis are right wing and the GOP Is right wing...and the Communist party of Stalin was Left wing, and the Democrats are left wing. There...now when we put some THOUGHT to this statement, it all falls apart.

Chuck is right, this is symantics. The GOP (and by extension, the "tea party" activists who are changing its' direction) is still a moderately right of center political stance. More libertarian on its fringe than right of center actually.

The Democrats span a great idelogical divide from the Joe Liebermann's who are conservative on foreign policy to the Micheal Moores and Noam Chomsky's who are just out of their freaking minds....but have never advocated violence. The Nazi's and the Stalin era Communists used violence as a state weapon. For anyone rational to throw those two names in, or in this case just the Nazi's since our Irish friend clearly see's no hypocracy in ignoring the excesses of excess socialism not only labels them an idealogue, it also labels them as someone playing a political point rather than seeing democracy in action.

It is ok not to like the other side, but when you associate them with true killers and thugs, you lose any credability.

[F1boat]

Nazis are right wing and the GOP Is right wing...and the Communist party of Stalin was Left wing, and the Democrats are left wing. There...now when we put some THOUGHT to this statement, it all falls apart.

Chuck is right, this is symantics. The GOP (and by extension, the "tea party" activists who are changing its' direction) is still a moderately right of center political stance. More libertarian on its fringe than right of center actually.

The Democrats span a great idelogical divide from the Joe Liebermann's who are conservative on foreign policy to the Micheal Moores and Noam Chomsky's who are just out of their freaking minds....but have never advocated violence. The Nazi's and the Stalin era Communists used violence as a state weapon. For anyone rational to throw those two names in, or in this case just the Nazi's since our Irish friend clearly see's no hypocracy in ignoring the excesses of excess socialism not only labels them an idealogue, it also labels them as someone playing a political point rather than seeing democracy in action.

It is ok not to like the other side, but when you associate them with true killers and thugs, you lose any credability.

I can't see how the GOP or the tea party are center-right? They look extreme right to be, intolerant, viciously nationalistic and aggresively religious. Seems extreme right to me. Not like the Nazis, granted, but nothing like moderate Right Parties in the UNP, for example.
About the Dems, they look like Centrists to me.

[chuck34]

I can't see how the GOP or the tea party are center-right? They look extreme right to be, intolerant, viciously nationalistic and aggresively religious. Seems extreme right to me. Not like the Nazis, granted, but nothing like moderate Right Parties in the UNP, for example.
About the Dems, they look like Centrists to me.

Expand on that. Why do you think they are intolerant? Why do you think they are viciously nationalistic? Why do you think they are aggresively religious?

I have seen no instances of intolerance, despite what the media would like to gin up. Is being proud of your country, and striving for it to be better economically now somehow "viciously nationalistic"? If so, then I'd say the T.E.A. party people are guilty as charged. And there really aren't too many extreme religious people that I've seen. This movement seems to be almost single mindedly focused on economic issues. The one issue of religion might be the ground zero mosque, but since something like 70% of the country agrees that that shouldn't be built, I'd say that's far from "aggresive", or "extreme".

[Eki]

It is ok not to like the other side, but when you associate them with true killers and thugs, you lose any credability.
"True killers"? If those who kill in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't true killers, then what are they?

[Hondo]

I ought to continue to stay away from this but.....

I believe there is such a thing as too big. It has gotten to the point that Democrats and Republicans are not for what's best for the people or the country. They are for what's best for the party. What will grow the party? What will bring more money to the party? How can the party expand it's power? None of this is new. It has, largely because of the Internet, become so obvious that even the mainstream media can't conceal it anymore.

The TEA party came about not from racism, not from wanting religious suppression and not for being against health care. The TEA party came about when the great silent majority realized their elected representatives were not listening to them at all and were taking this country a direction they did not want to go. In a nut shell, they want their country governed as provided for in the Constitution of the United States of America. You have to be an American to understand that. If you are an American that has never read the constitution, you probably won't understand it either. If you are an American that believes you have the right to have what everybody else has, you won't understand the Tea party. Look at the ages of the TEA party folks. These people were originally in their 40's, 50's and up. Americans in that age group don't organize, they don't go to rallies, they don't protest en mass in public. They go to work, come home, eat dinner, watch TV, and go to bed. On weekends they barbecue. They go to church and family birthday parties. They strive to make a better life for their children and teach their children to be responsible and that actions have consequences. They mind their own business. They don't take political advice from Sean Penn or Lady GaGa. Lumping the GOP and the TEA parties together is a mistake that the GOP is just now starting learn. Their message is simple. We vote you in to do our business, the way we and the constitution says it should be done, or we vote you out. They don't give a damn about either party and have already unseated more than a few GOP candidates. You really have to be an older American to understand just how frustrated and angry these people are to launch out of their recliners and comfort zones to create the TEA party. I'd like to know what makes the TEA party racist? Racist is becoming a word that is used when no other valid argument can be applied.

[anthonyvop]

One of the more popular signs at Tea Party Rallies

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID16143/images/RacistTeaSign.jpg

[markabilly]

I ought to continue to stay away from this but.....

I believe there is such a thing as too big. It has gotten to the point that Democrats and Republicans are not for what's best for the people or the country. They are for what's best for the party. What will grow the party? What will bring more money to the party? How can the party expand it's power? None of this is new. It has, largely because of the Internet, become so obvious that even the mainstream media can't conceal it anymore.

The TEA party came about not from racism, not from wanting religious suppression and not for being against health care. The TEA party came about when the great silent majority realized their elected representatives were not listening to them at all and were taking this country a direction they did not want to go. In a nut shell, they want their country governed as provided for in the Constitution of the United States of America. You have to be an American to understand that. If you are an American that has never read the constitution, you probably won't understand it either. If you are an American that believes you have the right to have what everybody else has, you won't understand the Tea party. Look at the ages of the TEA party folks. These people were originally in their 40's, 50's and up. Americans in that age group don't organize, they don't go to rallies, they don't protest en mass in public. They go to work, come home, eat dinner, watch TV, and go to bed. On weekends they barbecue. They go to church and family birthday parties. They strive to make a better life for their children and teach their children to be responsible and that actions have consequences. They mind their own business. They don't take political advice from Sean Penn or Lady GaGa. Lumping the GOP and the TEA parties together is a mistake that the GOP is just now starting learn. Their message is simple. We vote you in to do our business, the way we and the constitution says it should be done, or we vote you out. They don't give a damn about either party and have already unseated more than a few GOP candidates. You really have to be an older American to understand just how frustrated and angry these people are to launch out of their recliners and comfort zones to create the TEA party. I'd like to know what makes the TEA party racist? Racist is becoming a word that is used when no other valid argument can be applied.
and most importantly, you forgot their favorite sport, teabagging....

[Bob Riebe]

and most importantly, you forgot their favorite sport, teabagging....
As opposed to their opponents favorite-- blood sucking.

[F1boat]

Expand on that. Why do you think they are intolerant? Why do you think they are viciously nationalistic? Why do you think they are aggresively religious?

I have seen no instances of intolerance, despite what the media would like to gin up. Is being proud of your country, and striving for it to be better economically now somehow "viciously nationalistic"? If so, then I'd say the T.E.A. party people are guilty as charged. And there really aren't too many extreme religious people that I've seen. This movement seems to be almost single mindedly focused on economic issues. The one issue of religion might be the ground zero mosque, but since something like 70% of the country agrees that that shouldn't be built, I'd say that's far from "aggresive", or "extreme".

Chuck, I am sorry, but I saw what Glen Back said. This had nothing to do with economics. He said rubbish about important changes, how America returns to God etc. He sounded like the Ayatolah. And if you don't think that they are racist and too nationalistic, all power to you. That, however, is part of the reasons why Europeans and other people mistrust Americans. It is obvious that you people want to bully the world to live the way to think it must.

[F1boat]

As opposed to their opponents favorite-- blood sucking.

Vampires FTW :)

[Hondo]

Chuck, I am sorry, but I saw what Glen Back said. This had nothing to do with economics. He said rubbish about important changes, how America returns to God etc. He sounded like the Ayatolah. And if you don't think that they are racist and too nationalistic, all power to you. That, however, is part of the reasons why Europeans and other people mistrust Americans. It is obvious that you people want to bully the world to live the way to think it must.

What makes the Tea party racist?

[F1boat]

From what I remember Black labeled Obama as an enemy of "white" culture, which is bizzare.

[chuck34]

Chuck, I am sorry, but I saw what Glen Back said. This had nothing to do with economics. He said rubbish about important changes, how America returns to God etc. He sounded like the Ayatolah. And if you don't think that they are racist and too nationalistic, all power to you. That, however, is part of the reasons why Europeans and other people mistrust Americans. It is obvious that you people want to bully the world to live the way to think it must.

You need to understand that Glen Beck IS NOT the T.E.A. Party. Also, his rally on 8/28 was NOT a T.E.A. Party event, nor political in nature, as he made expressly clear.

Again, you seem to imply that the T.E.A. party is racist. Show me.

How nationalistic is "too nationalistic"? Explain that.

All the time, we Americans get told how we are just ignorant of Europeans, how we don't take the time to really learn, we just poke our noses where they don't belong, we don't know much about Europe or it's differing political philosophies, etc. Well, I'm asking nicely here (not just you Boat, but everyone), please take the time to actually learn about the T.E.A. party, what it stands for, where it came from, what it stands for, before you make pronouncements based on what you've heard from news reports.

[chuck34]

From what I remember Black labeled Obama as an enemy of "white" culture, which is bizzare.

What? What in the world does that mean? Where does it come from?

[MrJan]

Are you lot still going?

[F1boat]

please take the time to actually learn about the T.E.A. party, what it stands for, where it came from, what it stands for, before you make pronouncements based on what you've heard from news reports.

Chuck, do you know that every single leader of every far right party says this very thing? We have one in Bulgaria (more than one, actually, but only one is strong) and they say the same thing. Actually, when you see the people, the attitude, the slogans, honestly, you get the idea. It is quite clear who fights for what.

[F1boat]

Are you lot still going?

Of course. What else to do in the end of the week :D

[Bob Riebe]

Chuck, do you know that every single leader of every far right party says this very thing? We have one in Bulgaria (more than one, actually, but only one is strong) and they say the same thing. Actually, when you see the people, the attitude, the slogans, honestly, you get the idea. It is quite clear who fights for what.
Prove that statement.

[chuck34]

Chuck, do you know that every single leader of every far right party says this very thing? We have one in Bulgaria (more than one, actually, but only one is strong) and they say the same thing. Actually, when you see the people, the attitude, the slogans, honestly, you get the idea. It is quite clear who fights for what.

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. Are you saying that since the media has labeled the T.E.A. Party as "far right", "right-wingers", "racists", "extremists", etc. that you have no need to actually learn about them? That you'll just take the media's word for it? That does sound like something that would happen in Bulgaria.