Well done McLaren and Button

[Mark]

For giving us something different at the Italian Grand Prix. In these days of computer generated strategies and pit stops where everyone arrives at the same conclusion. We had the sight of Button trying a completely different setup - with the help of the F-duct, than the norm at Monza, making it work and nearly winning the race!

About time we had teams trying something different!

[Valve Bounce]

...............and Bunsen celebrates a great race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9rytUeq62k

[Saint Devote]

For giving us something different at the Italian Grand Prix. In these days of computer generated strategies and pit stops where everyone arrives at the same conclusion. We had the sight of Button trying a completely different setup - with the help of the F-duct, than the norm at Monza, making it work and nearly winning the race!

About time we had teams trying something different!

:D Jense always rocks!

[Saint Devote]

In reality this is not new - it is only the most visible example of Jense running a diffeent set-up to Lewis.

It is if y'all recall, why Martin Whitmarsh declared his reasons for signing Jenson. He stated that they wanted Raikkonen but at the time nobody knew that Jense was available. This is not to detract from Kimi.

Jenson he said would have strengths where Lewis did not and vice versa - and he mentioned Monza as an example. And this has really been the case.

Jenson uses different brakes front and rear compared to Lewis for example.

This is another reason why the pairing of the two Brits was such a clever move - Whitmarsh's first signing as team principle was Jense - he has reason to smile, in addition to Jenson who has to look at Mercedes this year and think how wrong the critics were. How relieved he must feel!

[Valve Bounce]

In reality this is not new - it is only the most visible example of Jense running a diffeent set-up to Lewis.

It is if y'all recall, why Martin Whitmarsh declared his reasons for signing Jenson. He stated that they wanted Raikkonen but at the time nobody knew that Jense was available. This is not to detract from Kimi.

Jenson he said would have strengths where Lewis did not and vice versa - and he mentioned Monza as an example. And this has really been the case.

Jenson uses different brakes front and rear compared to Lewis for example.
l!

........yeah! and Lewis Hamilton stuffed it up just after the start. :eek:

[Jag_Warrior]

Good, smart race by Button. Excellent job.

[jens]

Surprising that Button managed to outpace Hamilton for once at a Grand Prix weekend. But this is something he badly needed to stay in the title fight.

[wedge]

For giving us something different at the Italian Grand Prix. In these days of computer generated strategies and pit stops where everyone arrives at the same conclusion. We had the sight of Button trying a completely different setup - with the help of the F-duct, than the norm at Monza, making it work and nearly winning the race!

About time we had teams trying something different!

It should be Max Mosley you should be thanking (for the testing ban) and not Button and McLaren.

[Valve Bounce]

Everybody wants to blame Max!! Good that someone finally wants to thank him instead.

[Saint Devote]

Surprising that Button managed to outpace Hamilton for once at a Grand Prix weekend. But this is something he badly needed to stay in the title fight.

Button has outqualified Hamilton on FIVe occasions this year, not once.

And he did not outpace Lewis - Lewis collapsed at Monza - which is not the most unusual thing, by crashing out while Jenson led and finished second.

Anyway, dont you get tired of rubbishing Jenson? Or are you just another bitter critter that Jenson keeps proving wrong?

[Saint Devote]

It should be Max Mosley you should be thanking (for the testing ban) and not Button and McLaren.

He was thanking Jense for being the driver that is prepared to go against the orthodox approach - it does not happen often.

But as Mclaren disclosed, the setup is a particularly sensitive one on the entry into the corners, that required an extremely smooth and accurate driving style.

The point being that teammate Hamilton could NOT make use of this setup because he is more "point and squirt on the throttle" driver.

Nevertheless, it showed just how good Jenson is.

There have been quite a few scribes that have noted how relaxed and confident Jenson is these days compared to Lewis who tends to be a nervous.

Usually it is Jenson who spends time talking to the press at the Brand Centre while Lewis just skips through.

Jenson is a driver these days, a world champion, who has accomplished his life goal. And THAT is the most satisfying and self-esteem solidifying act that not too many in this world achieve.

[Mark]

[quote="Saint Devote"]

Spot on :D

[wedge]

He was thanking Jense for being the driver that is prepared to go against the orthodox approach - it does not happen often.

But as Mclaren disclosed, the setup is a particularly sensitive one on the entry into the corners, that required an extremely smooth and accurate driving style.

The point being that teammate Hamilton could NOT make use of this setup because he is more "point and squirt on the throttle" driver.

Nevertheless, it showed just how good Jenson is.

There have been quite a few scribes that have noted how relaxed and confident Jenson is these days compared to Lewis who tends to be a nervous.

Usually it is Jenson who spends time talking to the press at the Brand Centre while Lewis just skips through.

Jenson is a driver these days, a world champion, who has accomplished his life goal. And THAT is the most satisfying and self-esteem solidifying act that not too many in this world achieve.

In fact it was the exact opposite. Bunsen went safe for more downforce because he can't drive and manage a twitchy car over a race.

It's a similar approach for the Indy 500. Drivers who aren't particularly confident with the car tend to have more DF.

However, if you have an extremely efficient car you can higher DF eg. Williams in the early 2000s ran higher DF because of their advantage with the BMW powerplant.

We will never know which approach from JB or LH was better because LH crashed out.

[f1kid1987]

Great Drive by jenson. But the team shouldnt of broadcast that they were pitting him in a couple. I think thats what gave Alonso the victory.

[jens]

Button has outqualified Hamilton on FIVe occasions this year, not once.

And he did not outpace Lewis - Lewis collapsed at Monza - which is not the most unusual thing, by crashing out while Jenson led and finished second.

Anyway, dont you get tired of rubbishing Jenson? Or are you just another bitter critter that Jenson keeps proving wrong?

I'm a Button rubbisher? :p : I thought I have praised him a fair bit this season.

And in terms of outpacing I mean the whole weekend. For instance even though Button outqualified Hamilton in Australia, Malaysia and Germany, Lewis was the faster driver in race trim. Well, okay, Australia is debatable due to traffic issues.

[N4D13]

Just a little question - how much time per lap did Jenson lose after Alonso hit him in the first corner? I just read something on PF1 -let's face it, it's not the pinnacle of objective journalism, but nevertheless now I've got this doubt- where it was implied that the damage on Jenson's car wasn't just minor and that he would have won the race had Alonso not hit him.

It looked as minor damage to me, and I truly doubt that that kind of thing would really make a difference in Monza, but what do you think about that? It might be some BS from Planet F1, but they might have a point.

[Saint Devote]

In fact it was the exact opposite. Bunsen went safe for more downforce because he can't drive and manage a twitchy car over a race.

It's a similar approach for the Indy 500. Drivers who aren't particularly confident with the car tend to have more DF.

However, if you have an extremely efficient car you can higher DF eg. Williams in the early 2000s ran higher DF because of their advantage with the BMW powerplant.

We will never know which approach from JB or LH was better because LH crashed out.

Evidently you do not gather what the unique requirements are for Monza - it is essential to be able to carry the speed as much as possible through the corners - the comments of Jackie Stewart in the Gerald Donaldson book - "Grand Prix People".

In order to achieve this, downforce is required, but this has always been extremely difficult. Mclaren and Jense after much deliberation decided to go with this set-up BECAUSE he has such a smooth transition and carries speed quicker than anyone else through medium speed corners - something noted in 2009 by the Autosport GP editor Mark Hughes [who usually gives me a cramp because he cannot disguise his support for Hamilton - his 2009 Monza report was enough for Jenson supporters to spit venom!]

The worst thing at Monza is a twitchy car and Mclaren developed this approach quite brilliantly which suited Jense's style. Whitmarsh when he signed Button SAID that he thought Jense would have the upper hand in the team at a track like Monza.

Whitmarsh after twenty years as Dennis' deputy in my view is, for personality reason FAR better than Ronald as the team principle - and it shows at McLaren.

You dont know which approach was better? The answer was given by Lewis - he said that he wished he had rather used the same system that Jenson had. There is your answer.

Hamilton is still developing as driver and it showed in his lack of confidence to go with the Jenson setup - because it was a Monza developed setting, as well as his impetuousness on the first lap - this is where Jenson is stronger and Lewis can learn a lot from his fellow Brit. And Jenson is not an insecure critter, but a generous and open individual.

I predict that he and Lewis will become one of the great unique partnerships in racing. With TWO winners.

Martin Whitmarsh surely looks at the strife at RBR and Ferrari and must smile!

As a Jenson supporter - I much prefer Lewis than Barrichello or any of the others that Jense has partnered with. The problem is that he is also the strongest and gives TOO much aggravation :-]

Looking back at Monza, I think Fernando and Ferrari have come away with false sense of confidence. They forget that at Monza, Lewis made an error and crashed out on lap 1.

I do believe that had Lewis remained IN the race, he would have taken care of Massa and put Alonso under so much pressure that it would have allowed Jenson to claim the win and PERHAPS, Lewis second place.

As a teammate Jenson reminds me a lot of Derek Warwick in his approach to teammates - and I consider that a great compliment!

[Saint Devote]

Great Drive by jenson. But the team shouldnt of broadcast that they were pitting him in a couple. I think thats what gave Alonso the victory.

Actually you make an excellent point - I was hoping they would pit him when he was in traffic - and throwing Ferrari a dummy would have been superb.

There has ALWAYS been the big rivalry between McLaren and Ferrari at Monza and beating them at Monza is always a particular goal of the McLaren lads.

DEFINITELY my biggest f1 season disappointment so far this year - it replaces Monte Carlo which is now my second. I still feel depressed!!!! Second place feels like we lost - Ron Dennis likes to say that second place is the first of the losing places :eek: :D

[Saint Devote]

Just a little question - how much time per lap did Jenson lose after Alonso hit him in the first corner? I just read something on PF1 -let's face it, it's not the pinnacle of objective journalism, but nevertheless now I've got this doubt- where it was implied that the damage on Jenson's car wasn't just minor and that he would have won the race had Alonso not hit him.

It looked as minor damage to me, and I truly doubt that that kind of thing would really make a difference in Monza, but what do you think about that? It might be some BS from Planet F1, but they might have a point.

It was not minor exactly - that was quite a chunk of diffuser, because Jenson did say that he was battling with the car but as long as he had good tyres he could hold Alonso off.

The problem is that when he changed to the hard tyres - besides the slower than usual stop by the crew - the car did not handle well at the rear, so in the end, Alonso would have passed him anyway.

I reckon for Jense to win the race, he needed Lewis to help take care of Alonso - and we know that this is something Hamilton is pretty adept at doing.

[Valve Bounce]

Jenson is a driver these days, a world champion, who has accomplished his life goal. And THAT is the most satisfying and self-esteem solidifying act that not too many in this world achieve.

Yeah! but some guy here reckons that it not really that big deal winning a championship - it's more important winning special races.

[Saint Devote]

Yeah! but some guy here reckons that it not really that big deal winning a championship - it's more important winning special races.

You have difficulty separating my approach, from that of Button's? How remarkable.

I do prefer race wins. But I am not Jenson Button or any other driver. My attitude in racing is the same as people such Gilles Villeneuve and Jean Alesi - they never cared about the WDC and preferred to try always to win races. And any list of championship winners that does not include Stirling Moss is flawed anyway.

But as a supporter of Jense I knew his goal from when he was 8 was to win the WDC and I was and am very happy for him.

Given MY choice - not Jenson's, okay? - I would rather have Jense winning this year at Monte Carlo, Silverstone, Spa, Monza and Suzuka than the WDC, given the choice.

But what I want is not relevant. It is what the driver I support wants. And the change in Jenson has been tremendous. He exudes self-confidence and having a teammate like Lewis a driver HAS to have ironclad self-esteem.

Just look how Alonso fell apart mentally when he was teamed with Lewis and Kovaleinen just collapsed!

Do not underestimate Hamilton, he is extremely tough as a racing driver and selectiing Jense as his teammate was a great choice by Whitmarsh.

They are both strong drivers mentally - second to none on the grid.

[truefan72]

Great Drive by jenson. But the team shouldnt of broadcast that they were pitting him in a couple. I think thats what gave Alonso the victory.

not really their choice since the FIA is privy to all broadcasts and selects which one to belatedly play over the course of the race

[Saint Devote]

Not damage to the diffuser - the end plate of the wing.

[Valve Bounce]

You have difficulty separating my approach, from that of Button's? How remarkable.

.

Well, you ain't bunsen, and I couldn't care what you think!
End of discussion.

[N4D13]

It was not minor exactly - that was quite a chunk of diffuser, because Jenson did say that he was battling with the car but as long as he had good tyres he could hold Alonso off.

The problem is that when he changed to the hard tyres - besides the slower than usual stop by the crew - the car did not handle well at the rear, so in the end, Alonso would have passed him anyway.

I reckon for Jense to win the race, he needed Lewis to help take care of Alonso - and we know that this is something Hamilton is pretty adept at doing.
All right, thanks a lot for your answer. :)