FIA decides against new team for 2011

[ArrowsFA1]

The FIA has announced that none of the organisations bidding to become Formula 1's 13th team in 2011 have met its requirements, and that the grid will therefore stay at 24 cars.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86468

Disappointing :(

[JasonD]

Disappointing? Yes.
Surprised? No.

After USF1 the FIA is gun shy of gambling again. But also look at the timing, a team would only have 6/7 months to pull it all together. As much as I would love to see JV out there again it would be a dismal season for his or any other team at this point.

[maximilian]

Incredibly stupid.

What those stuffed suits don't seem to get is, with the idiotic system in place, it's extremely hard to find financing and get the technology all squared away. Who wants to finance/sponsor a team unless they are guaranteed participation? Who wants to work on a car design and spend huge amounts unless they know they'll have a shot at racing?

The reason for turning the applicants down was that these 2 factors "aren't in place", but it's a moronic catch-22. Cant enter... because no financing. Can't finance... because no entry! WTF! :mad:

For the same reason, the current teams aren't competitive - they could/should have worked towards their debut a lot longer, not just after they finally got the nod.

There needs to be a serious push to abolish this "franchise system". Nothing good has come of it.

And to claim that an organization like EE is unfit to enter F1, and having other established organizations like Lola, ART and Prodrive pull out or not even try makes you wonder, because if THEY "aren't good enough" to enter F1, then WHO IS???

[Bagwan]

So , now Jacques and his backers buy HRT or Virgin , and two birds go down with one stone .
No thirteenth team , but a twelfth which is much stronger .

Use EE to revive the other , and youve got a solid grid .

JV was the only entry to lodge the $10million , and has backing for three years .
I expect there is a "plan B" here .

[Roamy]

So , now Jacques and his backers buy HRT or Virgin , and two birds go down with one stone .
No thirteenth team , but a twelfth which is much stronger .

Use EE to revive the other , and youve got a solid grid .

JV was the only entry to lodge the $10million , and has backing for three years .
I expect there is a "plan B" here .


I suspect there will be some teams for sale very cheap. Could even be toro rosso

[Bagwan]

I suspect there will be some teams for sale very cheap. Could even be toro rosso

Watch it happen , Roamy , old man .

His backers , while disappointed , are backing a buyout , so now , as it should be , Jacques will entertain offers from half the grid .

This WILL happen , and there are only details to discuss .

They have a first stage design , and one stipulation that will be necessary will be that they are able to continue on this road and not be saddled with a development of the bought-out team's current design .

They have three years worth of budget , apparently , so , even though it sounds a bit bit bass-ackward , the denial of the thirteenth may really have been a way of saying "We'd rather you bought an existing team ."

This WILL happen , and it will happen quickly .
It just remains to be seen which team they will buy .

Remember , this man is a singer , and he will get it for a song .

JV is back , kids . Get used to it .

[UltimateDanGTR]

a stupidly late decision deadline already means I actually support this decision. a 13th team would have had hardly any time to prepare, and then get slated when they inevitably performed badly next year. at least finally sense is seen, even if it means a complete waste of time for applicants.

the best idea is to scrap the franchise system all together, or immediatly open entries for 2012, with a decision on that coming within the next few months. that way, teams have plenty of time to prepare.

[Retro Formula 1]

I still think it may be Renault. The owner is looking to offload some liability to the French manufacturer so this might be a custom made "shoe in".

[truefan72]

Incredibly stupid.

What those stuffed suits don't seem to get is, with the idiotic system in place, it's extremely hard to find financing and get the technology all squared away. Who wants to finance/sponsor a team unless they are guaranteed participation? Who wants to work on a car design and spend huge amounts unless they know they'll have a shot at racing?

The reason for turning the applicants down was that these 2 factors "aren't in place", but it's a moronic catch-22. Cant enter... because no financing. Can't finance... because no entry! WTF! :mad:

For the same reason, the current teams aren't competitive - they could/should have worked towards their debut a lot longer, not just after they finally got the nod.

There needs to be a serious push to abolish this "franchise system". Nothing good has come of it.

And to claim that an organization like EE is unfit to enter F1, and having other established organizations like Lola, ART and Prodrive pull out or not even try makes you wonder, because if THEY "aren't good enough" to enter F1, then WHO IS???


:up:

F1 should have had a 13th team this year

the reason they denied stefan gP ( and their ready to go Toyota cars) was that they thought it would be unfair for other applicants to grant them the spot, despite the team being ready to go. Now 8 months later they don't have a single team they think is viable to enter the sport (while a team like HRT continues to run around the track)

no common sense and a lack of understanding of real world economics is running rampant at the FIA/ all they care about is money, and money today.

Now we have to go through this whole circus for 2012. What was wrong in granting temporary status to either applicant until they make it to the grid for the first race and then giving them full status?

[truefan72]

I still think it may be Renault. The owner is looking to offload some liability to the French manufacturer so this might be a custom made "shoe in".

Renault won't get sold.

They have just invested properly in the outfit and the team is seriously becoming a race win contender and part of the new big 4. Next year is expected to be even better. If Honda knew that their 2009 car would dominate the season, they would have never sold the team. Renault are not about to make the same mistake.

[Retro Formula 1]

Renault won't get sold.

They have just invested properly in the outfit and the team is seriously becoming a race win contender and part of the new big 4. Next year is expected to be even better. If Honda knew that their 2009 car would dominate the season, they would have never sold the team. Renault are not about to make the same mistake.

BUT, Renault only own 25% of the team, the rest being held by Genii who are looking to offload some of the liability as F1 has proved a bit richer than they envisaged.

A Canadian / French driver with the personality, flair and support that JV has to partner Kube might be a marketing dream for a slightly shop soiled team and put the Briatore days behind them.

[V12]

Came to this thread to express my feelings, which are pretty much the same as the majority here.

The franchise system. I can *sort of* see the logic in not wanting to have oversubscribed grids, but serial DNQers will never be able to hang around for long before losing sponsorship (no race exposure) anyway, so the entry lists will naturally keep themselves at a manageable level, but with the surviving teams being those that were the best-run, rather than those which were selected in some sort of procedure which is not transparent to the public.

The "Catch 22" comment was exactly what I was going to write too, there's no way a team can raise concrete funds while waiting on a decision to see if they are actually in or not.

The cynic in me thinks it is some sort of ploy to give an F1 team some sort of intrinsic "value" beyond its actual assets ("the only way to get in is to buy one of us for a nice tidy sum!")

I also agree that this is ultimately the only decision they could have taken at the moment, but there is no excuse in waiting until September to make this announcement.

The closed shop system has added nothing to the sport, new teams can bring as much fresh impetus to the sport as new drivers coming in (although less regularly obviously).

I can see why the FIA wants to have some sort of vetting procedure in place to make sure there are no more Lifes or Andrea Modas (even if I personally find them an intriguing and interesting, if small, part of F1's recent history) - but any outfit that can show it has the technical, financial and organisational means to compete respectably (and yes, it will be at the back initially) should be in, whether that's 0 teams, 1 team or 5 teams.

[ioan]

Todt :down:

They leave it late and then decide against it.
Compared to last season they went from one extreme to the other. :down:

The conclusion is FIA = idiots, and this is the n-th confirmation of this situation.

[Copse]

the reason they denied stefan gP ( and their ready to go Toyota cars) was that they thought it would be unfair for other applicants to grant them the spot, despite the team being ready to go.
no common sense and a lack of understanding of real world economics is running rampant at the FIA/ all they care about is money, and money today.


Stefan GP was not ready to go in any way. Having borrowed/loaned one running and one barely running Toyota chassis, without any prospects of development during the season does not mean you're ready to go. The FIA saw this and did not consider them a viable entry. Good on them, considering other teams that were rejected.

On the other hand, my general opinion is that it should have been open to all and any teams that wanted to make fools of themselves. Stefan GP should have been allowed to stand there with one car 4 seconds slower than the HRTs and one never out of the garage, and have eaten their words. Now, they didn't have to reveal the truth, and will probably keep popping up in the future until they get the chance to fail publicly.

[VkmSpouge]

Well fair enough if none of them were in a position to do it properly. I would like to see Epsilon try to team up in some way with Hispania.

[steveaki13]

The FIA hasn't aloud the potential 13th team enough time to get ready for 2011.

Why couldn't they announce their candidate and let them prepare and let them join in 2012. Would seem like a sensible thing to do.

[inimitablestoo]

Or better still, open it up to allcomers like they used to. If you weren't good enough, you were pretty quickly found out because you'd fail to qualify every other week. If they'd accepted all the entries that were put forward last year, it's a fair bet more than half of them wouldn't have been able to put something together anyway, but we might have had 28 or 30 cars out there. Now that's a proper grid size :D

[DexDexter]

Watch it happen , Roamy , old man .

His backers , while disappointed , are backing a buyout , so now , as it should be , Jacques will entertain offers from half the grid .

This WILL happen , and there are only details to discuss .

They have a first stage design , and one stipulation that will be necessary will be that they are able to continue on this road and not be saddled with a development of the bought-out team's current design .

They have three years worth of budget , apparently , so , even though it sounds a bit bit bass-ackward , the denial of the thirteenth may really have been a way of saying "We'd rather you bought an existing team ."

This WILL happen , and it will happen quickly .
It just remains to be seen which team they will buy .

Remember , this man is a singer , and he will get it for a song .

JV is back , kids . Get used to it .

If they buy Toro Rosso, they are 10 times better of developing what is basically a Newey-designed Toro Rosso than anything else...

[Robinho]

brilliant, no money wasted going out to tender for new teams, and for teams to start running up to prove an organisation capable of making an F1 car. I can imagine they spent fortunes pulling the stuff together, only for them to decide they don't really want an extra team.

If they could prove that the FIA never had any intention of actualy allocating a slot on the grid then they could arguably sue for the costs they spent applying of the vacant slot. surely all they need is some sort of bond or guarantee to accompany the entry repayable when they complete the season. If they are serious they ought to be able to get the backers or sponsors to contribute, particularly if they have a finanacial or insurance institution on their roster like many of the the teams

[maximilian]

Lola and Prodrive were already scared off to even try and apply, and this bull decision should now pretty much scare off everybody else. :mad:

[Nikki Katz]

I don't think that any of the new teams could promise to be on the pace of the existing teams, so they rejected them. But isn't it usual for the new team to start at the back? Especially when the politics within the FIA selection process means that they only have half a year to design the car from scratch?

I doubt that whatever team they picked would have made an impact on next season, but they were probably all better prepared than USF1 and Campos.

Disappointing, but I was really expecting this. I guess they'll put the team limit back down to 12 so that it doesn't look like there's gaps on the grid?

[Bagwan]

If they buy Toro Rosso, they are 10 times better of developing what is basically a Newey-designed Toro Rosso than anything else...

That aint necessarily so , according to Jacques .

His design team must be pretty solid , as he's looking for a clean design table , one that doesn't saddle he and his team with elements he wouldn't have chosen from the get-go .

They are a team without a factory , and that's really all they need to buy , as they were set to contest next year without the rest of a bought out team in the way .

Remember , this is JV we are talking about here .
He's the guy that seems to befriend the engineers , and not get along so well with owners and team principles .

He's now got a team behind him , and judging from the secrecy , one that all told within can be trusted , and has three years of backing .
He knows what it costs , so three years worth , when the actual plan A was to buy a team , should be good enough to tempt a sale .

Since they are not interested in much other than factory assets and entry , the most logical is either HRT or Virgin .
Torro Rosso might work also , but not for the design .
And Sauber , who might have a few employees Jacques has worked with before .

This will happen soon , as they need to get on with it .

[DexDexter]

That aint necessarily so , according to Jacques .

His design team must be pretty solid , as he's looking for a clean design table , one that doesn't saddle he and his team with elements he wouldn't have chosen from the get-go .

They are a team without a factory , and that's really all they need to buy , as they were set to contest next year without the rest of a bought out team in the way .

Remember , this is JV we are talking about here .
He's the guy that seems to befriend the engineers , and not get along so well with owners and team principles .

He's now got a team behind him , and judging from the secrecy , one that all told within can be trusted , and has three years of backing .
He knows what it costs , so three years worth , when the actual plan A was to buy a team , should be good enough to tempt a sale .

Since they are not interested in much other than factory assets and entry , the most logical is either HRT or Virgin .
Torro Rosso might work also , but not for the design .
And Sauber , who might have a few employees Jacques has worked with before .

This will happen soon , as they need to get on with it .

There is no solid design team outside current F1 people, I'm afraid. Just look at Lotus or the other new teams, even with Gascoyne they are miles away...Let's hope, though, that wee see Jacques back, as a team owner of course, would be a nice addition to F1.

[jens]

Uhmm... While it was thought that FIA's entry process was unprofessional last year, it was even worse this time. And largely FIA's total scare and negativism due to USF1 can be blamed. Why not give at least a chance to someone (even if they don't make it) instead not doing it at all?

But let's concentrate on the positives. Leaving USF1 aside - three out of four new teams made it onto the grid this year despite all the criticism of FIA's procedures and scepticism about the new teams. So it may mean that the potential new team would have had at least 75% likelihood of making it onto the next year's grid and if FIA actually had learnt something from last year, it could be even higher.

[truefan72]

BUT, Renault only own 25% of the team, the rest being held by Genii who are looking to offload some of the liability as F1 has proved a bit richer than they envisaged.

A Canadian / French driver with the personality, flair and support that JV has to partner Kube might be a marketing dream for a slightly shop soiled team and put the Briatore days behind them.

good points

[truefan72]

Todt :down:

They leave it late and then decide against it.
Compared to last season they went from one extreme to the other. :down:

The conclusion is FIA = idiots, and this is the n-th confirmation of this situation.

agreed

it is a miracle a series exists with such greed/incompetence at the top.
Makes it very difficult to love the sport when its stewards continue to manage it so abysmally

[CNR]

i would say that prodrive has been told not to reapply after they forfeited their 2007 grid slot

toyota f1 was given an extra year to test

so why did they not pick a team for 2012