RIP Shoya

[Retro Formula 1]

Sorry to say that Shoya Tomizawa passed away after a crash in Moto GP2 today.

I know this is a F1 forum but I'm sure we all wish to pay our respects.

RIP Shoya.

[Ranger]

I didn't watch the Moto2 race so it came as a complete shock to me when I read it on autosport.

Aged 19 years. :(

RIP

[ZEROX]

He's one of the man to watch . Sadly , he's died . It was way too young for him to go .

One week before , one rider also died . 13 years old . That's way ,way ,way too young to die .

R.I.P for both of them .

Now that's remind me Motogp will switching to 1000cc engine while Formula One switching to more smaller engine although there's no death . More goner for Motogp racing anyone ?

[truefan72]

thankfully I did not watch the crash which I heard was just horrible.

My thoughts go out to him and his family.

May he rest in peace.

[woody2goody]

R.I.P.

The accident was horrible, but unfortunately, no safety measures in the world would have been able to prevent that.

As much as it pains to say it, it was a racing incident, and that makes it all the more terrible. Good to see that De Angelis and Redding escaped unscathed.

[Robinho]

tragic loss in what i believe were similar circumstances as the young lad at Indy the other week, a great shame to lose anyone enjoying the sport they love

[woody2goody]

tragic loss in what i believe were similar circumstances as the young lad at Indy the other week, a great shame to lose anyone enjoying the sport they love

Wasn't the other rider only 13 as well?

It's extremely upsetting - I would call my career into question after the events of this week if I were a rider.

Valentino Rossi was impeccable after the race in his reaction to the news. Typical Rossi, always being positive, and saying what a nice guy Shoya was in tribute to him.

[UltimateDanGTR]

RIP

it is always painful to hear about deaths in motorsport wherever and whenever it happens, and to lose such a young man who was a star of the future is a real shame for all-mirrors of henry surtees last year.

condolences to his family, friends and team.

[Mark]

Motorsport may be a wide ranging and varied sport where the different strands don't often mix. But when we lose one of our own it affect us all :( . RIP Shoya-san.

[I am evil Homer]

R.I.P.

The accident was horrible, but unfortunately, no safety measures in the world would have been able to prevent that.

As much as it pains to say it, it was a racing incident, and that makes it all the more terrible. Good to see that De Angelis and Redding escaped unscathed.

True except the marshalls then moved both Tomizawa and Redding withouyt assessing their injuries and then promptly dropped Tomizawa. The Misano race control and marshalls were a joke and should all be fired - complete disgrace the race wasn't stopped straight away.

[Retro Formula 1]

I echo your sentiments mate but perhaps we should leave the judgement of these matters a little while when they can be assessed more objectivly. At the moment, like you I am annoyed but would it really have made any difference. He looked in trouble as soon as he was off :(

However, the post crash actions and treatment need to be analysed in the cold light of day, not when everyone is still in shock.

As Mark says, any death or serious injury in any Motor sport event is felt throughout the different formulas. RIP.

[Shifter]

RIP Shoya, Lenz, and as well to the 13 year old and another rider killed at my local track...

Moto racers are the gladiators of the racing world. I'd consider myself braver than most, but I'd never have the bravery of a moto racer. Godspeed.

[markabilly]

RIP, another lost rider in too short of a time period in racing associated with motogp.

As to track marshalling and the rest, I will leave that with only one comment: While it may not have made any actual difference as to his survival in this particular accident, the race should have been red flagged and the ambulance brought onto the track. What happenned was disrespectful to the rider and his family as well as to his value as a fellow human being less important than the value of completing this race without a stoppage.

[woody2goody]

RIP, another lost rider in too short of a time period in racing associated with motogp.

As to track marshalling and the rest, I will leave that with only one comment: While it may not have made any actual difference as to his survival in this particular accident, the race should have been red flagged and the ambulance brought onto the track. What happenned was disrespectful to the rider and his family as well as to his value as a fellow human being less important than the value of completing this race without a stoppage.

I didn't know that they kept the race going.

I think after just seeing the crash in question that it would be serious enough to warrant stopping the race.

How long did they take to get him to hospital?

[CNR]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/163046/1/motogp_officials_explain_tomizawa_medical_treatmen t.html

During a special press conference at Misano on Sunday, following the news of Tomizawa's death in hospital several hours after his fall, officials explained that the race wasn't stopped because marshals had moved all the riders and machines before the leaders reached the scene of the accident on the following lap.

[markabilly]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/163046/1/motogp_officials_explain_tomizawa_medical_treatmen t.html
Yes, all the riders were dragged off immediately.

And even though Shoya lay motionless and clearly seriously injured, he was rolled and pulled over onto a strether where they ran off but then dropped part of the stretcher, so he fell partially off, instead of following standard paramedic procedures, such as not moving him until ascertaining his condition as to whether or not he should be moved and how, whether or not he needed a neck restraint because of cervical injuries or a back restraint because of spinal injuries(to prevent injuries to the spinal cord), and taking precautions to avoid further arterial damage such as to the major arota, where more movement and twisting of the body can cause a complete rupture, a broken rib that can puncture a lung from inapproriate movement......and having the ambulance and life support move to where it is close by as in a few feet of the injured party.

Instead, we have a quick toss and run to wherever it may be sitting, somewhere off track.

This year, there have been a number of races where riders were just limping away from their bikes, and the race was immediately red flagged. This race should have been immediately red flagged, so the riders stop at the pits before starting another lap.

reminds me too much of the death of Daijiro Kato who died after being in a comma from a brain stem infarction. His rough removal and lack of a neck restraint caused many to wonder if it were the accident or the rough treatment afterwards that did the most damage.

[AndyL]

Two died in a collision at the Manx Grand Prix last week as well, a sad week all round for motorcycle racing.

[Retro Formula 1]

Two died in a collision at the Manx Grand Prix last week as well, a sad week all round for motorcycle racing.

Bloody dangerous course and just relieved my mate finished safely in the top half of the Senior race.

I don't know why the CoC didn't stop the race. It looked awful and I was waiting for the Doctor to spring into action. Not wanting to cast aspersions but I am confident that had that accident happened over here, the race would have been red flagged but there will be an inquest and these questions raised.

In the meantime, it's just a very sad time. :(

[wedge]

Totally agree with Markabilly.

Totally disgusted at not seeing the red flag displayed despite Shoya sickenly laying motionless.

RIP Shoya

[truefan72]

True except the marshalls then moved both Tomizawa and Redding withouyt assessing their injuries and then promptly dropped Tomizawa. The Misano race control and marshalls were a joke and should all be fired - complete disgrace the race wasn't stopped straight away.

If that's what happened then heads should roll

[truefan72]

Yes, all the riders were dragged off immediately.

And even though Shoya lay motionless and clearly seriously injured, he was rolled and pulled over onto a strether where they ran off but then dropped part of the stretcher, so he fell partially off, instead of following standard paramedic procedures, such as not moving him until ascertaining his condition as to whether or not he should be moved and how, whether or not he needed a neck restraint because of cervical injuries or a back restraint because of spinal injuries(to prevent injuries to the spinal cord), and taking precautions to avoid further arterial damage such as to the major arota, where more movement and twisting of the body can cause a complete rupture, a broken rib that can puncture a lung from inapproriate movement......and having the ambulance and life support move to where it is close by as in a few feet of the injured party.

Instead, we have a quick toss and run to wherever it may be sitting, somewhere off track.

This year, there have been a number of races where riders were just limping away from their bikes, and the race was immediately red flagged. This race should have been immediately red flagged, so the riders stop at the pits before starting another lap.

reminds me too much of the death of Daijiro Kato who died after being in a comma from a brain stem infarction. His rough removal and lack of a neck restraint caused many to wonder if it were the accident or the rough treatment afterwards that did the most damage.

wow just horrible

I cannot understand how they could have moved the body at all, why the race was not immediately red flagged and the ambulance rushed unto the track.
Add to the fact that these riders are way less protected than an F1 driver, where safety cars are deployed for any crash of some measurable impact, and the absolute failings of the marshalls and race control is astounding.

Surely the FIA will have to hold an inquiry and I presume some lawsuits will follow. In the end the injuries may have been overwhelming, but their actions probably contributed to a slightly quicker and probably more painful demise.

[Mark]

Hmm. I'm not aware of the facts of the situation, but even *I* know that if someone suffers serious injury and is lying on the ground motionless then you do not move them!. What could be a recoverable injury could easily turn into paralysis if a well meaning person moves someone.

OK different if they are lying in the middle of a live motorway or other dangerous situation but it was entirely within their power to stop the race and wait for specialist medical help.

[SGWilko]

Knowing how Italian law works, and the lawsuits and criminal investigations after Senna's death, the very poor handling of the aftermath of this tragic accident will likely have many recriminations.

If Shoya was moved, and subsequently dropped :eek: I would assume the family would be well advised to have some sort of independant investigation into the events.

We all know how vital marshalls are to race weekends, and to point blame without first knowing all the facts (I have not seen the incident or subsequent treatment), would be foolish.

But some serious lessons clearly need to be learned here.

A very sad situation. :(

[markabilly]

As to the corner workers, I think they did the best they could do under the circumstances, as the race was not being red-flagged. In the absence of a red flag, the riders needed to be moved ASAP.
Leaving them laying there while the race went on, even with yellow flags, would not have been acceptable.

But there is no question that the race should have been red flagged, so this stuff would have been completely and totally unnecessary. This should have been an automatic decision, and has constantly happened in the past where the accident is far less serious.

[steveaki13]

Hmm. I'm not aware of the facts of the situation, but even *I* know that if someone suffers serious injury and is lying on the ground motionless then you do not move them!. What could be a recoverable injury could easily turn into paralysis if a well meaning person moves someone.

OK different if they are lying in the middle of a live motorway or other dangerous situation but it was entirely within their power to stop the race and wait for specialist medical help.

Completley agree

A very sad and destressing situation.
I am not a motor cycle fan really, I rarely watch Motorbikes but when a death occurs in motoracing of any sort it brings any and every motorsport fan close to tears.

R.I.P

[DazzlaF1]

Completley agree

A very sad and destressing situation.
I am not a motor cycle fan really, I rarely watch Motorbikes but when a death occurs in motoracing of any sort it brings any and every motorsport fan close to tears.

R.I.P

I know, We as motor racing fans watch motor racing because its what we love, and the people who participate choose to race because (just like us fans) its what they love, they accept the risks and the possibility of serious harm or death to pursue their dreams of making it in the sport.

And any death in motorsport is a tragedy as it reminds us fans how dangerous it still is despite all the safety improvements in recent years. It makes us appreciate even more what these people do for our entertainment.

[steveaki13]

I know, We as motor racing fans watch motor racing because its what we love, and the people who participate choose to race because (just like us fans) its what they love, they accept the risks and the possibility of serious harm or death to pursue their dreams of making it in the sport.

And any death in motorsport is a tragedy as it reminds us fans how dangerous it still is despite all the safety improvements in recent years. It makes us appreciate even more what these people do for our entertainment.

Absolutley

[F1boat]

He's one of the man to watch . Sadly , he's died . It was way too young for him to go .

One week before , one rider also died . 13 years old . That's way ,way ,way too young to die .

R.I.P for both of them .



RIP :(

[ShiftingGears]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/07092010/23/prosecutor-bring-charges-tomizawa-death.html

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2010/September/sep0710-Marshalls-may-face-manslaughter-charges-over-Shoya-Tomizawa-death/

This could get considerably more ugly.

[Robinho]

ugly is the word for it.

Slightly different view here http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3031 that it was the doctors decision to move him immediately as it was immediately obvious how grave the situation was and they wanted him to have attention in the ambulance and the med centre with no time to spare. i'm not sure this excuses the actions or even quite what i agree with, but this is the official reason for failure to red flag, they moved the riders immediately to get them attention and as a consequence there was nothing to red flag for as the track was clear. messy situation though and so sad. i hope that it is proved that the action of the marshals, even if misguided, were not a contributor to the lads death

[ShiftingGears]

ugly is the word for it.

Slightly different view here http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3031 that it was the doctors decision to move him immediately as it was immediately obvious how grave the situation was and they wanted him to have attention in the ambulance and the med centre with no time to spare. i'm not sure this excuses the actions or even quite what i agree with, but this is the official reason for failure to red flag, they moved the riders immediately to get them attention and as a consequence there was nothing to red flag for as the track was clear. messy situation though and so sad. i hope that it is proved that the action of the marshals, even if misguided, were not a contributor to the lads death

It is obvious to anyone who has done first aid not to just grab someone who is unresponsive. The red flag should have been waved. While the head doctor is using the fact that the rider was quickly taken off the circuit and treated there to justify not throwing a red flag, it does not explain the situation where the marshalls were in a situation of rushing to get an unresponsive person with undetermined injuries off the circuit instead of waiting for professional assistance.

Someone was cutting corners in not giving marshalls first aid experience. Seriously, it only takes a few hours to learn adequate first aid to cover that amount of time.

It also doesn't take long to drill into people the importance of keeping an unresponsive person still to prevent further injury until professional medical staff can stabilise them with the adequate equipment. It is not worth exacerbating unknown injuries like that.

It is worth noting that he wasn't the only rider who was unresponsive after this accident.

My full respects go out to the marshalls and the work they do but they were betrayed by their inexperience/lack of training/lack of direction by the race organisers here.

I hope the Italian law doesn't come down to punish them for trying to do the best for the competitors, and if it does, I believe it will cause a lot of people in Italy to reconsider whether being a motorsport marshall is worth a potential conviction of manslaughter for trying to do their jobs.

[Ranger]

In the realm of international motorsport, Italy is a bad place to die.

Investigations for the prevention of future accidents like this are necessary, but for manslaughter charges to be laid for fatal accidents a sport that everyone knows can have mortal consequences, to me seems unjust.

[Retro Formula 1]

As is usually the case, the full facts take a bit of time to come out.



Much has been said in the heat of the moment about the specifics of the accident, but the protocol for an incident such as Tomizawa's is that the doctor in charge on the scene has to make a decision regarding the gravity of the situation. He was in discussion with Doctor Claudio Macchiagodena – the MotoGP Championship's doctor based in Race Control – and concluded that there was nothing that could be done to help Shoya while prone on the track. He had to be transported immediately to the ambulance where there was equipment to help him fight for his life, and then to the medical centre. Once there it was decided that the level of equipment available was still not enough to help the poor kid. He stressed that in a situation like that you are dealing with seconds not minutes.

As I understand it, there was a Doctor there who was in direct contact with the Moto GP doctor and initial assessment concluded that there was nothing that could be done to save his life outside of a medical facility.

In this situation, immobilising Shoya at the side of the track was lessening the chances of survival in the eyes of the experts.

Once he was off track, there was no reason to stop the race and I doubt race control would have known for several minutes what the severity of the accident was.

[Robinho]

It is obvious to anyone who has done first aid not to just grab someone who is unresponsive. The red flag should have been waved. While the head doctor is using the fact that the rider was quickly taken off the circuit and treated there to justify not throwing a red flag, it does not explain the situation where the marshalls were in a situation of rushing to get an unresponsive person with undetermined injuries off the circuit instead of waiting for professional assistance.

Someone was cutting corners in not giving marshalls first aid experience. Seriously, it only takes a few hours to learn adequate first aid to cover that amount of time.

It also doesn't take long to drill into people the importance of keeping an unresponsive person still to prevent further injury until professional medical staff can stabilise them with the adequate equipment. It is not worth exacerbating unknown injuries like that.

It is worth noting that he wasn't the only rider who was unresponsive after this accident.

My full respects go out to the marshalls and the work they do but they were betrayed by their inexperience/lack of training/lack of direction by the race organisers here.

I hope the Italian law doesn't come down to punish them for trying to do the best for the competitors, and if it does, I believe it will cause a lot of people in Italy to reconsider whether being a motorsport marshall is worth a potential conviction of manslaughter for trying to do their jobs.

normally i would agree with you, and i'm not sure i still don't, but;

The report i quoted and as posted by SKC says it was the Dr on the scene who made the decision to move the prone rider, his immediate analysis was that unless they moved him immediately he stood no chance anyway.

He may have been wrong, but this was a case where the guy was so severly injured that stabilising on track would (apparently) have served no purpose.

the fact that this meant they didn't now need the red flag was an aside, although i do think the automatic reposnse, regardless of whether they had decided to act as they did should have been a red flag anway. Prone riders having been struck by other competitors should = automatic red flag.

also, the flag should have been thrown to allow them to assess the other rider(s) rather than shifting Redding in the same unceremonius manner, when the Dr could have made an assessment that he did require stabilising.

I would agree that in 99% of situations the last thing you do is move an injured person without properly assessing or without professional advice, but maybe, in this case this was the 1% moment where that was not the right thing, there were working to seconds only to try and save the guys life. I'm not saying i necessarily agree with this statement as quoted, but it does make some sense, and does appear to indicate that it wasn't just the marshalls reckless decision, but was down to a medical professional.

I think there may be more to come out of this, and i do hope that they did act in the best way they could, and despite this there was nothing that could have been done as there are already lives lost and ruined by this tradegy, i hope there is not cause to bring further misery on anyone else, but time will tell, and if the the facts tell a different story i will be the first in line to condemn the actions then, if they were definitively the wrong ones and advice, training and protocols were missed or avoided.

The investigation as is in Italy, at this moment is standard. There must be an inquest and they have the power to bring criminal charges. The same happened with Senna's death in 1994. at this stage it does not mean anyone has done anything wrongly, and until the facts have been established then i will reserve my judgement

[jens]

What a pity - one of the biggest Japanese motorsport future hopefuls... :( Like Kato in 2003 - the Land of the Rising Sun has experienced some rough fate. I was already thinking whether we are going to see Shoya in MotoGP at least in 2012, but not gonna happen...

But a proof that some things are unavoidable in racing and based on the events last weekend it's even a bit surprising that such fatalities don't happen more often.

[woody2goody]

Was there any way they could have given him some form of treatment on the track?

I'm thinking that if they had stopped the race, could a doctor could have provided him with some potentially life-saving procedure before taking him to hospital?

This would in theory eliminate them moving him so quickly.

I'm not sure if this is something they could have done, I'm just throwing it out there.

[markabilly]

normally i would agree with you, and i'm not sure i still don't, but;

The report i quoted and as posted by SKC says it was the Dr on the scene who made the decision to move the prone rider, his immediate analysis was that unless they moved him immediately he stood no chance anyway.

He may have been wrong, but this was a case where the guy was so severly injured that stabilising on track would (apparently) have served no purpose.

the fact that this meant they didn't now need the red flag was an aside, although i do think the automatic reposnse, regardless of whether they had decided to act as they did should have been a red flag anway. Prone riders having been struck by other competitors should = automatic red flag.

also, the flag should have been thrown to allow them to assess the other rider(s) rather than shifting Redding in the same unceremonius manner, when the Dr could have made an assessment that he did require stabilising.

I would agree that in 99% of situations the last thing you do is move an injured person without properly assessing or without professional advice, but maybe, in this case this was the 1% moment where that was not the right thing, there were working to seconds only to try and save the guys life. I'm not saying i necessarily agree with this statement as quoted, but it does make some sense, and does appear to indicate that it wasn't just the marshalls reckless decision, but was down to a medical professional.




well, in fact is which is faster?

1. Requiring corner workers to pick up and place, not one, but two potentially very seriously injured riders, on a stretcher and run to the outside area of a very fast curve, where the gravel was very difficult to walk in, and even harder to walk faster as demonstrated by the corner workers slipping and tripping...all the while in danger themselves if another rider came through and lost control, because he might hit them, and then for them to continue moving until they got to the ambulance.....

or

2. Have the race stopped immediately and have the ambulance arrive at the scene, not move the riders and max out their chances at survival.

Indeed having watched the incident, there was NO WAY ANY MEDICAL DOCTOR COULD HAVE ASSESSED EITHER RIDERS' CONDITION IN THE LIMITED TIME BEFORE THEY DID THE TOSS AND RUN, unless they had sufferred such massive injuries they would have died instantly (i.e., decapitation or major organs having been ripped out of the body).

He did not appear to have those types of injuries or somebody was a big liar, given the amount of time before he was declared dead at the hospital, and if he did have those types of injuries, then there was absolutely no need to be rushing around anywhere or trying to find life support.... as he was already dead.

It also appeared that Shoya raised and moved his left hand up as they were moving him on the stretcher across the gravel....... :(

They blew it big time, and everyone associated with racing should be ashamed at such behavior.

Mind you, I do NOT BLAME the corner workers as they were NOT the ones who made the decision that required, (indeed gave them no choice), except to do this stupid toss and run.......but the on-scene doctors and race control, well that is a different story and they should be thoroughly investigated :rolleyes:

Is it that bad and backward in Italy, that it is made made necessary by italian law and legal authorities??
Were they too worried about cancelling the race?

This was a sad day for the man's family and a sad day for motor racing in general for this type of behavior to be occurring in a major racing series.......even if ultimately nothing could have been done to save this man's life......it was a very very sad day.

[markabilly]

and if he immediately needed life support, such as chest massage and being bagged or given mouth to mouth (to keep him breathing) that is best done right where he was laying, as that is impossible to do it while running across a bunch of gravel and trying to control the stretcher and not trip and fall.......well duh.....

[Robinho]

well, in fact is which is faster?

1. Requiring corner workers to pick up and place, not one, but two potentially very seriously injured riders, on a stretcher and run to the outside area of a very fast curve, where the gravel was very difficult to walk in, and even harder to walk faster as demonstrated by the corner workers slipping and tripping...all the while in danger themselves if another rider came through and lost control, because he might hit them, and then for them to continue moving until they got to the ambulance.....

or

2. Have the race stopped immediately and have the ambulance arrive at the scene, not move the riders and max out their chances at survival.

Indeed having watched the incident, there was NO WAY ANY MEDICAL DOCTOR COULD HAVE ASSESSED EITHER RIDERS' CONDITION IN THE LIMITED TIME BEFORE THEY DID THE TOSS AND RUN, unless they had sufferred such massive injuries they would have died instantly (i.e., decapitation or major organs having been ripped out of the body).

He did not appear to have those types of injuries or somebody was a big liar, given the amount of time before he was declared dead at the hospital, and if he did have those types of injuries, then there was absolutely no need to be rushing around anywhere or trying to find life support.... as he was already dead.

It also appeared that Shoya raised and moved his left hand up as they were moving him on the stretcher across the gravel....... :(

They blew it big time, and everyone associated with racing should be ashamed at such behavior.

Mind you, I do NOT BLAME the corner workers as they were NOT the ones who made the decision that required, (indeed gave them no choice), except to do this stupid toss and run.......but the on-scene doctors and race control, well that is a different story and they should be thoroughly investigated :rolleyes:

Is it that bad and backward in Italy, that it is made made necessary by italian law and legal authorities??
Were they too worried about cancelling the race?

This was a sad day for the man's family and a sad day for motor racing in general for this type of behavior to be occurring in a major racing series.......even if ultimately nothing could have been done to save this man's life......it was a very very sad day.


i think your probably right, if it was quicker to get the ambulance to him rather than him to the ambulance it was a no brainer, as moving him was obviously only going to risk further aggravation/injury.

i agree that they should have red flagged as a matter of course before even trying to assess the riders, they shouldn't put the dr's in such a position that they have 30 seconds to make the call before the field is back round. Rider on the circuit, probably unconcious, automatic red flag, no margin for error in these situations. Like i said before, i just hope that despite all this mess, it was not a contributing factor, as that will only heap on more pain and misery for everyone involved. But lessons should certainly be learnt.

I was only theorising on what the "official" statements coming from Moto GP and the drs have said.

[electron]

RIP Tommy-san

the wekend was the anniverary of one of my greatest heros off all times death as well - Jochen Rindt

so sad that someone had to share his fate on the same weekend. And in Italy again.

I just saw loads of documentaries about Rindt and it was ringing in my ears as I heard witnesses of 1970 (even Ecclestone himself) say:

"law in Italy is just like that. NOBODY dies ON or AT a racetrack in Italy. Never. You die on the way to or in the hospital."

Was like that in 1970, was like that in 94, was like that last sunday.

EDIT: one of the most moving moments i ever saw was when the track announcer in Hockers back then asked the audience to stand up for the anouncement of the loss of Jim Clark. At the event itself.
this would have been greatness. Not that half assed podium freakshow with celebrating and booohing fans we had to endure.