former reagan advisor:The GOP has already "destroyed" the U.S. economy, setting up an "American Apocalypse."

[markabilly]

Stockman rushes into the ring swinging like a boxer: "If there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation's public debt ... will soon reach $18 trillion." It screams "out for austerity and sacrifice." But instead, the GOP insists "that the nation's wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase."


And Obama ain't goning to stand up to wall street, no sire!!!

from the wall street journal

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy-2010-08-10?pagenumber=1

read it and weep.

people should wonder: why did wall street, by contributions of ten to one, favor their boy? Cause they knew obama was an easy buy, just like all chicago politicans

started long before obama:


So for the past 40 years, America's been living "beyond our means as a nation" on "borrowed prosperity on an epic scale ... an outcome that Milton Friedman said could never happen when, in 1971, he persuaded President Nixon to unleash on the world paper dollars no longer redeemable in gold or other fixed monetary reserves."


and now:



They (wall street) conned Congress and the Fed into bailing out an estimated $23.7 trillion debt. Worse, they have since destroyed meaningful financial reforms. So Wall Street is now back to business as usual blowing another bigger bubble/bust cycle that will culminate in the coming "American Apocalypse."


Stockman refers to Wall Street's surviving banks as "wards of the state." Wrong, the opposite is true. Wall Street now controls Washington, and its "unproductive" trading is "extracting billions from the economy with a lot of pointless speculation in stocks, bonds, commodities and derivatives." Wall Street banks like Goldman were virtually bankrupt, would have never survived without government-guaranteed deposits and "virtually free money from the Fed's discount window to cover their bad bets."


Finally, thanks to Republican policies that let us "live beyond our means for decades by borrowing heavily from abroad, we have steadily sent jobs and production offshore," while at home "high-value jobs in goods production ... trade, transportation, information technology and the professions shrunk by 12% to 68 million from 77 million."


so now you should know why wall street preferred Obama , more than any other candidate, becauase they knew he would not bite the hand that feeds them.

They could care less if he was Moslem,Christain, KKK, jewish or whatever, they just knew he would go along to get along with those good folks, no different than George Wubba jr.

[markabilly]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38935053/ns/business-us_business




A new report concludes that chief executives of the 50 firms that have laid off the most workers since the onset of the economic crisis in 2008 took home 42 percent more pay in 2009 than their peers at other large U.S. companies.

The report, from the Institute of Policy Studies, found that the 50 layoff leaders received $12 million on average in 2009, compared with an average compensation of $8.5 million for chief executives of companies in Standard & Poor's 500. Each of the 50 companies examined in the report laid off at least 3,000 workers between November 2008 and April 2010.


yes sire, these fat cat studs, can not afford that three percent tax raise, no sir.

[Roamy]

I say we declare chapter 7 and start again !!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Stop scaremongering. It'll all be okay. Probably.

[markabilly]

Stop scaremongering. It'll all be okay. Probably.
Captain Brown? You were not the same as the captain of the titanic?????

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Captain Brown? You were not the same as the captain of the titanic?????

I might run in the next general election with the campaign slogan of 'It will all be okay. Probably'.

[anthonyvop]

The Good news is that fiscal conservatives are taking back the GOP.

The Bad news is there are people who actually think that Obama is doing the right thing.

The Nightmare is that there are people who believe that the more successful a person is the higher percentage they should pay in Taxes.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The Good news is that fiscal conservatives are taking back the GOP.

The Bad news is there are people who actually think that Obama is doing the right thing.

The Nightmare is that there are people who believe that the more successful a person is the higher percentage they should pay in Taxes.

Cue the progressive taxation debate that decends into another laborious debate about left versus right.

[Bob Riebe]

The Good news is that fiscal conservatives are taking back the GOP.

The Bad news is there are people who actually think that Obama is doing the right thing.

The Nightmare is that there are people who believe that the more successful a person is the higher percentage they should pay in Taxes.
Probably the leader of the House, who said-- Let's get this bill passed so we can see what is in it-- is one of the strongest.

[markabilly]

The Nightmare is that there are people who believe that the more successful a person is the higher percentage they should pay in Taxes.
ONLY in your nightmares, of course, since they are the ones with the most disposable income to throw away on such frivolous items as a new toto for their tata, and unlike those less fortunate, who might have to choose between paying their rent/mortgage or the doctor bill or the extra three percent of income taxes...is very scary....omg

GOD FORBID, so rich holle sucking in all the blood money from taxpayer bailouts, might have to do it, pay an extra 3% on 12m!!!!!that is almost 360,000 out of 12,000,000!!!!

which is why we know deep down inside, you love little bama, cause you know you can bash him all you want, throw the dogs off the scent, but in the end, he will take good care of his masters....OH yeah :rolleyes:

[anthonyvop]

ONLY in your nightmares, of course, since they are the ones with the most disposable income to throw away on such frivolous items as a new toto for their tata, and unlike those less fortunate, who might have to choose between paying their rent/mortgage or the doctor bill or the extra three percent of income taxes...is very scary....omg

GOD FORBID, so rich holle sucking in all the blood money from taxpayer bailouts, might have to do it, pay an extra 3% on 12m!!!!!that is almost 360,000 out of 12,000,000!!!!

which is why we know deep down inside, you love little bama, cause you know you can bash him all you want, throw the dogs off the scent, but in the end, he will take good care of his masters....OH yeah :rolleyes:

I have a question for you.

Why should I pay a greater percentage of what I earn than a person who is less productive?

I am not super rich. I am comfortably upper-middle class. I never received any bailout or subsidies from the Government. Every penny I have I earned through hard work and using my brains.

So why do I pay a Higher percentage than a person who is middle class? In some cases more than twice the rate.

[janvanvurpa]

The Good news is that fiscal conservatives are taking back the GOP.

The Bad news is there are people who actually think that Obama is doing the right thing.

The Nightmare is that there are people who believe that the more successful a person is the higher percentage they should pay in Taxes.

You know that your credibility is some negative type number here to any who are not total idiots, but this first line points to some sorta of gullibility that is so profound it cannot be real....nobody could be so_____________ to belive that, even YOU cannot be so stupid, or exxpect that others are.

Or, judging from history: since when has any Republican been "Fiscically conservative"?

Their modus operandi "don't touch my money, but give me all the freebies"

Foriegn readers with some brains, you have to understand a little US History to understand why Vops words are always so nonsensical as to be contemptable: there's a big myth that it was something exceptional in the water here that lead to the growth of America a seed of supernatural indeed devine origin, and then lift yourselves by the bootstraps hard work which built wealth here..
Always remember History and look up the unfathomable per-centage of the area of this country that was give as free Grants by the Federal Government under either the Homestead Act or Railroad Grants

Americans could afford to be generous, they got the whole place pretty cheap (microbes doing all the hard work), as such every class here EXPECTS FREEBIES and the "fisical Conservatives" expect BIG FREEBIES....

So, since when are any Republicans "fiscially" (or any other kind of behaviour? They expect OTHERS to abide by the law, be "moral" , and chaste etc) "conservative"...

The records shows they have always spent like drunken sailors ashore who care not for the 'morrow.

Vop English is maybe a little difficult for you since you seem to misunderstand so much, Vop, Greed and stinginess are not synonyms for "conservative"...

[Eki]

Why should I pay a greater percentage of what I earn than a person who is less productive?

Simple. Because you can afford it.

[anthonyvop]

Simple. Because you can afford it.


So?
Should you pay more for a product just because you can afford it?

On what moral grounds do you believe that a person should pay more because they can afford it?

On what Logic is it based?

The only argument for a progressive Tax rate is basically that it is easy to be generous with other people's money.

[markabilly]

I have a question for you.

Why should I pay a greater percentage of what I earn than a person who is less productive?

I am not super rich. I am comfortably upper-middle class. I never received any bailout or subsidies from the Government. Every penny I have I earned through hard work and using my brains.

So why do I pay a Higher percentage than a person who is middle class? In some cases more than twice the rate.
well that is because you are still part of the middle class...and you have a point......sometime back, posted about an IRS study showing how the really super rich, making over a million or so, pay about the same percentage in real taxes as do the lowest income classes....while the 'middle class" pay the most.

One reason is that the middle class can not afford to set up all the mechanisms for tax breaks and credits of the super rich nor in engage in games of hiding income. Further, none of them qualify for free medical care and other "gifts" that the lwest income or no income folks get.

Some five years ago (and since then the cost has probably gone up--esp with all this new health care law), the total cost of health insurance paid by both employee and a large company, was about $14,000 per year per employee for family care!!!!!

and this did not include the deductibles and co-pays which should be considered also to be a cost of health insurance...

now that works out to 1800 hours worked per year divided by the 14,000 to give an hourly cost of of about $7.60 per hour---and the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour

[anthonyvop]

You know that your credibility is some negative type number here to any who are not total idiots, but this first line points to some sorta of gullibility that is so profound it cannot be real....nobody could be so_____________ to belive that, even YOU cannot be so stupid, or exxpect that others are.

Or, judging from history: since when has any Republican been "Fiscically conservative"?

Their modus operandi "don't touch my money, but give me all the freebies"

Foriegn readers with some brains, you have to understand a little US History to understand why Vops words are always so nonsensical as to be contemptable: there's a big myth that it was something exceptional in the water here that lead to the growth of America a seed of supernatural indeed devine origin, and then lift yourselves by the bootstraps hard work which built wealth here..
Always remember History and look up the unfathomable per-centage of the area of this country that was give as free Grants by the Federal Government under either the Homestead Act or Railroad Grants

Americans could afford to be generous, they got the whole place pretty cheap (microbes doing all the hard work), as such every class here EXPECTS FREEBIES and the "fisical Conservatives" expect BIG FREEBIES....

So, since when are any Republicans "fiscially" (or any other kind of behaviour? They expect OTHERS to abide by the law, be "moral" , and chaste etc) "conservative"...

The records shows they have always spent like drunken sailors ashore who care not for the 'morrow.

Vop English is maybe a little difficult for you since you seem to misunderstand so much, Vop, Greed and stinginess are not synonyms for "conservative"...

I am 100% against all government subsidies and tax breaks to private industry.

[anthonyvop]

well that is because you are still part of the middle class...and you have a point......sometime back, posted about an IRS study showing how the really super rich, making over a million or so, pay about the same percentage in real taxes as do the lowest income classes....while the 'middle class" pay the most.

One reason is that the middle class can not afford to set up all the mechanisms for tax breaks and credits of the super rich nor in engage in games of hiding income. Further, none of them qualify for free medical care and other "gifts" that the lwest income or no income folks get.

Some five years ago (and since then the cost has probably gone up--esp with all this new health care law), the total cost of health insurance paid by both employee and a large company, was about $14,000 per year per employee for family care!!!!!

and this did not include the deductibles and co-pays which should be considered also to be a cost of health insurance...

now that works out to 1800 hours worked per year divided by the 14,000 to give an hourly cost of of about $7.60 per hour---and the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour

1st drop the healtcare stuff. It is easy to be generous with other people's money.

2nd, The rich pay a vastly larger share of the Federal Taxes.

The top 10% of Americans paid 55.4% of total federal taxes, which was a higher share than at any time in the data period going back to 1979

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-actually-wealthy-americans-pay-a-larger-share-of-federal-taxes-than-ever-before-2010-4

So I ask again.
What moral or economical justification is there for the progressive tax rate?

[markabilly]

and then there is the cost of food per year for a family, cost of a car, gasoline and other basic necessities........and the fact that the super rich benefit the most in terms of income as a result of government built infrastructure......

[race aficionado]

So?
Should you pay more for a product just because you can afford it?

On what moral grounds do you believe that a person should pay more because they can afford it?

On what Logic is it based?




When you are paying taxes you are not buying a product.
You are paying your dues to the government based on your income.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

What moral or economical justification is there for the progressive tax rate?

A flat tax benefits the minority. A progressive tax benefits the majority.

It was Adam Smith, who said taxes should be based on equality of sacrifice. Simply put, the extra income earned by a rich person is simply worth less than the extra pound in a poor household. Which is why a flat tax was, and is now, evidently unfair.

[Eki]

So?
Should you pay more for a product just because you can afford it?
I sometimes do. For example here the bus, train and airline fares are cheaper for students, those doing military service and senior citizens. The students, those doing military service, war veterans and senior citizens also get some other discounts and benefits, such as in some theaters, restaurants, concerts and sporting events, etc.




On what moral grounds do you believe that a person should pay more because they can afford it?

On what Logic is it based?

The logic is the following:
- Money is needed -> where can you get money? From the people who don't have money or the ones that do have money? -> From those who have money, of course.

It's moral as long as you can keep more money than those who pay less taxes.

[janvanvurpa]

When you are paying taxes you are not buying a product.
You are paying your dues to the government based on your income.

You point out a essential problem that has taken over the minds of the weak and fearful and greedy: that everything is a product, everything for sale...

Vop, an immigrant, comes here to a country and an infrastructure IN PLACE built by others and WE naturally generously allow him to take full advantage of all this country has to offer, and all we do is ask that he respects our laws and traditions----

but NOOO! He doesn't want to play by the rules we all played by for centuries....he wants to change the rules, and horde everything himself, and turn the culture into one like in the Third World where only money and power means anything at all....


HE is the American Taliban---and judging from his rationalisations and excusing of the terrorists acts of his buddy, we see the analogy is sound...


I wonder why he lives here since it's obvious he hates America?

[anthonyvop]

You point out a essential problem that has taken over the minds of the weak and fearful and greedy: that everything is a product, everything for sale...

Vop, an immigrant, comes here to a country and an infrastructure IN PLACE built by others and WE naturally generously allow him to take full advantage of all this country has to offer, and all we do is ask that he respects our laws and traditions----

but NOOO! He doesn't want to play by the rules we all played by for centuries....he wants to change the rules, and horde everything himself, and turn the culture into one like in the Third World where only money and power means anything at all....


HE is the American Taliban---and judging from his rationalisations and excusing of the terrorists acts of his buddy, we see the analogy is sound...


I wonder why he lives here since it's obvious he hates America?

Janny commits the first error of the ignorant.

Hey SFB....I am not an immigrant. Born in the good old USA!!!!

Oh.......And everything is for sale. Just look at your Obama!

[Eki]

Hey SFB....I am not an immigrant. Born in the good old USA!!!!

Your parents weren't born in the USA

Maybe you were an "anchor baby"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_baby

[anthonyvop]

Your parents weren't born in the USA

Maybe you were an "anchor baby"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_baby


Just like Miss Janny you make the same mistake. Assuming to fit your views.

[Eki]

Just like Miss Janny you make the same mistake. Assuming to fit your views.
That's what you do constantly.

[anthonyvop]

That's what you do constantly.

That is what you assume when in fact I base everything on logic and facts.

[janvanvurpa]

Janny commits the first error of the ignorant.

Hey SFB....I am not an immigrant. Born in the good old USA!!!!

Oh.......And everything is for sale. Just look at your Obama!

I based my guess on your words.
There is no shame in being ignorant of a fact, and there is a cure for ignorance..
Alas, we see in your case there is no cure for plain stupidity..

I know that this country produces its fair share of idiots, but tons of references led me to believe you were a Cuban...you certainly come across as stupid enough to be one of those living in some revanchist make believe world Cuban which South Florida is choked up with...

No we see you're just another Inter-net bullsh!tter.

Regardless of where you were hatched, you appalling ignorance of the history of this country makes it appear you were never educated here.

Presuming you were at some point "educated".

[anthonyvop]

I based my guess on your words.
There is no shame in being ignorant of a fact, and there is a cure for ignorance..
Alas, we see in your case there is no cure for plain stupidity..

I know that this country produces its fair share of idiots, but tons of references led me to believe you were a Cuban...you certainly come across as stupid enough to be one of those living in some revanchist make believe world Cuban which South Florida is choked up with...

No we see you're just another Inter-net bullsh!tter.

Regardless of where you were hatched, you appalling ignorance of the history of this country makes it appear you were never educated here.

Presuming you were at some point "educated".

HeHeHe
I seem to have touched a jealous nerve. What happened? Were you bested in a business deal by a Cuban? Did one of my people steal your girl?
Don't be upset. Let it go. There was nothing you could do. We are just that good.

[janvanvurpa]

HeHeHe
I seem to have touched a jealous nerve. What happened? Were you bested in a business deal by a Cuban? Did one of my people steal your girl?
Don't be upset. Let it go. There was nothing you could do. We are just that good.

Insane as usual Tony.
Are you writing these thing you write from some special mental institution where they let you have some limited inter-net access?

Notice for other peoples actions that every explanation from the Right Extremists always involves them suggest rage, hate, jealously, all the negative things we see so nakedly in them and evidently they seem to think everybody else is dominated by, as they are.


None of those.
I've just watched since the the Revolution in '59 how at first when Cubans came over they were all considered slime and greaseballs or whatever the local Floridiots called them I don't recall, but since they were nearly universally racists and xenophobic and "on a mission from God" it was pretty bad-----or inside the walls of my house considered pretty bad...


But as time passed and men aged, and the obviousness of their impotence became clear to the 'certain segment' of the Cubano community their dreams turned to the insane type of your convicted terrorist friend, the Flar-idiots had to increasingly try to kiss ass to the Cubano community regardless of their BS fantasies, for the votes

So important are the sheer numbers of votes of the Cuban-American community that , while the racists and Xenophobes still despise the Cuban community, they need haters and idiots and there are, and have been plenty of those---so no big romance drama---and no big seething revenge dreams---the very thing that we know dominates the minds of a certain diseased part of the Cuban_American diaspora,---

And yeah kinda sickened that idiot Cuban-Americans can trade their votes and get the State Dept to maintain one of the stupidest US policies I can think of, so stupid as time has passed that only people as stupid as you, maybe brain damaged in infancy from Abuela cutting the formula 50% with rum or something could explain the continuation of the Policy: the Trade and travel embargo against Cuba..

See it's an intellectual disgust at the corrupting influence of a evil, vocal, minority.

No rational reasons can be imagined for the "reasons' for the Embargo, it's only done to keep a few brain damaged senile idiots happy..

[anthonyvop]

Insane as usual Tony.
Are you writing these thing you write from some special mental institution where they let you have some limited inter-net access?

Notice for other peoples actions that every explanation from the Right Extremists always involves them suggest rage, hate, jealously, all the negative things we see so nakedly in them and evidently they seem to think everybody else is dominated by, as they are.


None of those.
I've just watched since the the Revolution in '59 how at first when Cubans came over they were all considered slime and greaseballs or whatever the local Floridiots called them I don't recall, but since they were nearly universally racists and xenophobic and "on a mission from God" it was pretty bad-----or inside the walls of my house considered pretty bad...


But as time passed and men aged, and the obviousness of their impotence became clear to the 'certain segment' of the Cubano community their dreams turned to the insane type of your convicted terrorist friend, the Flar-idiots had to increasingly try to kiss ass to the Cubano community regardless of their BS fantasies, for the votes

So important are the sheer numbers of votes of the Cuban-American community that , while the racists and Xenophobes still despise the Cuban community, they need haters and idiots and there are, and have been plenty of those---so no big romance drama---and no big seething revenge dreams---the very thing that we know dominates the minds of a certain diseased part of the Cuban_American diaspora,---

And yeah kinda sickened that idiot Cuban-Americans can trade their votes and get the State Dept to maintain one of the stupidest US policies I can think of, so stupid as time has passed that only people as stupid as you, maybe brain damaged in infancy from Abuela cutting the formula 50% with rum or something could explain the continuation of the Policy: the Trade and travel embargo against Cuba..

See it's an intellectual disgust at the corrupting influence of a evil, vocal, minority.

No rational reasons can be imagined for the "reasons' for the Embargo, it's only done to keep a few brain damaged senile idiots happy..

Dude,

You live in Seattle......nuff said.

BTW I didn't see you at the Rally America Awards banquet!

[Eki]

BTW I didn't see you at the Rally America Awards banquet!
And I didn't see you.

[janvanvurpa]

Dude,

You live in Seattle......nuff said.

BTW I didn't see you at the Rally America Awards banquet!

Why would I go there?
I only co-drove in one event this year so far...

I can see a mere hanger-on like you, you get to associate with some guys who have done things you never have and probably were never capable of, and that must be very frustrating so I guess that could be kinda therapeutic.

I mean the amout of times you guess that others are angry and jealous and envious just has to be, just like the Republicans all screaming for Law and Order and Family values and so Anti-gay---and they're all cheating on their wives, are fraudsters, criminals, and closeted gays tapping their feet in Airport WCs, your huckstering and hanging out with people you'll never ever reach, even if it is some amateurish little thing like Rally America Championship, must fill with with conflicting emotions...admiration and envy and hate like you're always talking about...

I think we're making some progress understanding your schizoid personality now.....obsessed with motorsports that you can't do....so you hang out and even the lowliest beginner is doing something you're enamored with but unable to do..It must be a very impotent feeling---no wonder you hate anybody who has done the things you can't.....

Didya get to plat the catcher to any of the Big Boys?
That is what you want isn't it???


By the way, don't think we haven't noticed that your derailments, as cleansing as they must be for you to vent your humiliation and inferiority complexes might be, that nobody is talking about "how the Republicans have
"destroyed" the U.S. economy.

I guess that's just so obvious that why bother beating a dead whorse.

[anthonyvop]

Why would I go there?
I only co-drove in one event this year so far...

I can see a mere hanger-on like you, you get to associate with some guys who have done things you never have and probably were never capable of, and that must be very frustrating so I guess that could be kinda therapeutic.

Nope. Just a series sponsor. I have road raced but know my limitations and abilities. I ain't that good.
But I guess in your world nobody can be associated with Rally unless you are as good as a Loeb.
I am smiling just thinking of the possibility of you running my sticker.



I mean the amout of times you guess that others are angry and jealous and envious just has to be, just like the Republicans all screaming for Law and Order and Family values and so Anti-gay---

Again you make the mistake of assuming.
I am your worst nightmare....an Objectivist. Personal freedoms for all as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of another.


I think we're making some progress understanding your schizoid personality now.....obsessed with motorsports that you can't do....so you hang out and even the lowliest beginner is doing something you're enamored with but unable to do..It must be a very impotent feeling---no wonder you hate anybody who has done the things you can't.....

Hahaha...funny.
I have been involved in the motorsports biz for almost 20 years now. I make very good money doing it. In your world Eccelstone, Penske and the Frances are just hangers on or groupies.
You remind me of one of those type a kid who likes a musical group until they become popular then get all jealous at their success and say they have "sold out".


By the way, don't think we haven't noticed that your derailments, as cleansing as they must be for you to vent your humiliation and inferiority complexes might be, that nobody is talking about "how the Republicans have
"destroyed" the U.S. economy.

I guess that's just so obvious that why bother beating a dead whorse.

I have admitted that earlier Republicans have screwed up and messed up the economy. We call them RINOS. Of course they mess pales in comparison to what the Dems are doing.
Today we have a movement within the party for more fiscal discipline. The Old guard is being forced out. It will take some time but it will happen...Just ask Lisa Murkowski.