is it still too early to talk about Versus?

[SarahFan]

ratings are pathetic with no increase in sight.....

the lead announcer thinks he is at Edmonton when he is at Sonoma...

Jack Arute is a clown....

the production crew misses 90% of the passes.....

I kinda like Buhl and Beekhuis.....but dudes have nothing to work with, and yesterday Briscoe was the poster boy for the 'tires' story and they missed it completly....if your going to make a big deal about it at least figure what racer is most effected by it....

Lindy is cute and all....but does anyone really feel the additional broadcast hour is actually building a fan base? ....becuase ratings dont lie


will Indycar really be saddled with versus for another 100 or so races?

[SoCalPVguy]

ratings are pathetic with no increase in sight.....

the lead announcer thinks he is at Edmonton when he is at Sonoma...

Jack Arute is a clown....

the production crew misses 90% of the passes.....

I kinda like Buhl and Beekhuis.....but dudes have nothing to work with, and yesterday Briscoe was the poster boy for the 'tires' story and they missed it completly....if your going to make a big deal about it at least figure what racer is most effected by it....

Lindy is cute and all....but does anyone really feel the additional broadcast hour is actually building a fan base? ....becuase ratings dont lie


will Indycar really be saddled with versus for another 100 or so races?

VERSUS will be the death of Indycar.
Indycar MUST get out of the Versus contract by any means possible including delaring chapter 7 ot 11 bankruptcy and renouncing all contracts as part of reorganization.
Indycar must be on a std cable like ESPN or broadcast TV by any means.
Indycar must start their own cable channel and Sirius radio like the football conferenecs and Nascar are doing.

[DanicaFan]

I cant stand Lindy. You can tell she knows nothing about Indycar except what is written on the cards in front of her. She sounds disinterested like she is just there for a paycheck. Put me in that spot, I would do a much better job.

I say get Marty Reid, Scott Goodyear, and Davey Hamilton in the booth for races.

[SarahFan]

Good question starter....

First and foremost the production company ......
It's just bad! Period

Versus just os what it is.... An obscure channel with few viewers.... The sport will never grow being on a third tier tv channel

[Mr. Mister]

IndyCar's ratings will not improve on any network that would actually want them. They'd have to do a time-buy for more on ABC, and even the .7 they get there is, like it or not, still horrible.

I don't blame VERSUS for the low ratings; Stanley Cup playoffs get fine ratings on VERSUS, so people would watch VERSUS if they wanted to. IndyCar isn't something they want to watch, so they don't. I don't expect those ratings (4.0 for it, I believe), but it's not like it's impossible for enough viewers to tune into VERSUS to make it a 1.0 if it was worth watching. People know about VERSUS, people have TV listings right on the TV, etc. No one under the age of 70 turns on the TV not knowing what's on and just goes up through their 3 channels looking for Antiques Roadshow or whatever.

The sport needs to make a compelling product. Because the majority of the broadcast is showing cars on a track, the cars on the track should be doing something interesting. Personalities and gimmicks will draw people in, but it won't keep them. You need to have something worth drawing them into first. Then they will stay rather than just see Danica for five, get bored, and leave.

Now, the VERSUS talent...

I'd replace Bob Jenkins with someone younger and more exciting (similar to Allen Bestwick). Rick Benjamin may be the only realistic choice, though he's not the ultimate ideal one. Move Bob to pre-race duties.

I would then make Lindy Thackston the lead pit reporter (over Jack Arute). Why? The lead pit reporter needs to be a professional broadcast journalist. Lindy most definitely is. She knows how to say what she should say. Rather than be goofy and annoying, the lead pit reporter needs to be serious and deliver interesting, informative, and unique tidbits that the viewer would not normally know/have seen. Human interest stories that hook in casual viewers. No "four tires and fuel" reporting or anything...real, quality pieces. And the important interviews (not pre-race "oh your car is good today?" stuff...the lead reporter needs to be the one who interviews Sarah Fisher after she wrecks her only car in the 2008 Indy 500, or Ryan Hunter-Reay after his first win at Watkins Glen, etc, etc. The big stuff). They need the right balance of drama without being too intense. Bill Weber was fantastic in this role for ESPN and later NBC/TNT (then he went to the booth and became annoying...the lead pit reporter should not talk too much, or else the drama becomes tiring. That's what happened when Bill went upstairs; he took the drama with him, full force, for three hours non-stop).

Jack...meh. I'd prefer him gone.

Floyd...take it or leave it. Anyone can give "four tires and Sunoco fuel" reporting, so, whatever. Just find the prettiest voice and prettiest face who can say it and leave it at that.

And the VERSUS production, like the ABC production, is unpleasant.

[Anubis]

The last five or so laps were pretty shocking, I must say. Shades of ITV in the depths of their F1 "coverage". Two laps to go and something interesting happening? Let's go to a break! Whether that's a contractual deal or not I don't know, but it was pretty shoddy.

As for ratings, I'd be interested to know how the Versus coverage compares to the Sky figures in the UK? I'd wager the UK audience is vanishingly small, even though the studio team give it a pretty decent shot.

[chuck34]

The all important question. Where else would you go? Remember the League doesn't have the money for a time buy. So that leaves them with ...... ?

[Jag_Warrior]

As many here have said, make the whole TV crew sit in a room and watch 12 straight hours of the Speed F1 coverage to learn how to do it.

:up:

Either the Speed F1 coverage or the Fox NASCAR coverage. Make them watch those and make them pass a test before you let them out of the room or give them food & water.

I kept hearing how "great" the Versus coverage was. I hadn't really watched any races on Versus before this season. And compared to ESPN, yeah, it's "great"... in the same way that a bowl of worms is great compared to a bowl of ####. It's not unwatchable, but it's certainly nothing to brag about.

I don't expect them to catch EVERYTHING - especially on road courses. And I don't know how many cameras they have at the track. But this is the second race that I've watched where there has been some heavy shuffling mid pack and there was absolutely NO explanation from the Versus crew.

And the people who say that the IRL should leave Versus... leave Versus and go where??? The IRL ended up in this dog with fleas deal in the first place because no one else was interested. Then IMS gave Tony the bum's rush because the sisters were tired of him setting their inheritance on fire. The IRL is not going to do network time-buys for a full season, ABC is not going to do any better (even if it was interested) and the IRL/IMS is most certainly not going to fund a cable network of its own. We might as well be realistic. A racing series that only gets a few hundred thousand viewers either stays on Versus or begs Speed Channel for a slot. And I doubt Fox/Speed is going to fight Comcast/Versus in court for that "honor". Why would they? IMO, they need to just embrace Versus and work with them to make the broadcasts better.

[glauistean]

:up:

Either the Speed F1 coverage or the Fox NASCAR coverage. Make them watch those and make them pass a test before you let them out of the room or give them food & water.

I kept hearing how "great" the Versus coverage was. I hadn't really watched any races on Versus before this season. And compared to ESPN, yeah, it's "great"... in the same way that a bowl of worms is great compared to a bowl of ####. It's not unwatchable, but it's certainly nothing to brag about.

I don't expect them to catch EVERYTHING - especially on road courses. And I don't know how many cameras they have at the track. But this is the second race that I've watched where there has been some heavy shuffling mid pack and there was absolutely NO explanation from the Versus crew.

And the people who say that the IRL should leave Versus... leave Versus and go where??? The IRL ended up in this dog with fleas deal in the first place because no one else was interested. Then IMS gave Tony the bum's rush because the sisters were tired of him setting their inheritance on fire. The IRL is not going to do network time-buys for a full season, ABC is not going to do any better (even if it was interested) and the IRL/IMS is most certainly not going to fund a cable network of its own. We might as well be realistic. A racing series that only gets a few hundred thousand viewers either stays on Versus or begs Speed Channel for a slot. And I doubt Fox/Speed is going to fight Comcast/Versus in court for that "honor". Why would they? IMO, they need to just embrace Versus and work with them to make the broadcasts better.

And there you have it in a nutshell. Plain and simple. No wishy washy(by the way Jag, watch the ######,I hear you can be banned for that "word").

These races are boring to say the least. Jack Arute has been a pain in my butt for years. The others I don't care about except to remind whomever it is that does most of the commentary (Jenkins?) that Mario has not driven competitively in years, although I believe he was quicker than Milka was in the race while he was in the two seater behind the pace car.

My biggest issue is pretty much the same as most everyone else. Too much is lost that causes excitement in a race. They need to listen to a couple of Brits like the old Murray Walker or Mark Brundle call the shots and say how idiotic certain moves are. Drivers like Wheldon (all teeth) a 500 champion makes a move that Duno would have been castigated for. Sato was in the race in 11th. Did you know that? How much screen time did he get? Again, back to the Brits. Sponsors are given great air time because no matter where you are in the field they give you airtime. I recall even to this day and I may be totally wrong but know without searching that a company named Fondmetal sponsored Minardi and they were akin to Milka or Coyne is these day.

Finally, somebody has to tell these guys that actually do pony up with money that they should at least make the decal legible. Something like IZOD does. That car is easily seen and the most prominant.

Oh, and finally (realy) that girl, although really pretty that is alays behind the winner (Will Power). That is the most canned, idiotic thing that Izod does. It's an embarrassment. As a marketing person there are many many ways to promote your product and series in this case with having that girl with the fake smile behind the driver when he is being interviewed. Put an IZOD liveried car directly behind with models wearing IZOD products. Change it every race.

[Jag_Warrior]

#### = Brussels sprouts. Honest. ;)

[garyshell]

#### = Brussels sprouts. Honest. ;)

Cause vs. effect?

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

:up:

Either the Speed F1 coverage or the Fox NASCAR coverage. Make them watch those and make them pass a test before you let them out of the room or give them food & water.

As long as no one says Boogity boogity boogity, I am almost with you.....


I kept hearing how "great" the Versus coverage was. I hadn't really watched any races on Versus before this season. And compared to ESPN, yeah, it's "great"... in the same way that a bowl of worms is great compared to a bowl of ####. It's not unwatchable, but it's certainly nothing to brag about.
Versus has gotten worse. I saw the Sao Paolo race and thought they did a good job on it. Somewhere along the line, they are emulating ESPN/ABC....

I cannot figure out for the life of me how people in VS cannot understand that they miss too much, and they don't seem to grasp that you don't cut to a commercial with 3 or 4 laps to go when you just came back during a yellow not 5 mins previous.



I don't expect them to catch EVERYTHING - especially on road courses. And I don't know how many cameras they have at the track. But this is the second race that I've watched where there has been some heavy shuffling mid pack and there was absolutely NO explanation from the Versus crew.

The director is the problem. The he has to tell the camera people which cars are battling for the position and to key on them as they come through. Any decent director and producer would see the position changes and look and figure it out. They need a director who didn't come from the stick and ball world, and I will bet you that is where this stiff comes from...


And the people who say that the IRL should leave Versus... leave Versus and go where??? The IRL ended up in this dog with fleas deal in the first place because no one else was interested. Then IMS gave Tony the bum's rush because the sisters were tired of him setting their inheritance on fire. The IRL is not going to do network time-buys for a full season, ABC is not going to do any better (even if it was interested) and the IRL/IMS is most certainly not going to fund a cable network of its own. We might as well be realistic. A racing series that only gets a few hundred thousand viewers either stays on Versus or begs Speed Channel for a slot. And I doubt Fox/Speed is going to fight Comcast/Versus in court for that "honor". Why would they? IMO, they need to just embrace Versus and work with them to make the broadcasts better.

There is no place TO go.....you are dead on the money. They either have to make this work, or find a way to buy them out and time buy on Speed or one of the bigget nets..and good luck with that.

Tony George's greatest blunder wasn't hiring Barnhart, or fighting the war the way he did...it was signing this long term deal with VS...

What the hell was he thinking?

[SarahFan]

Tony George's greatest blunder wasn't hiring Barnhart, or fighting the war the way he did...it was signing this long term deal with VS...

What the hell was he thinking?

his biggest blunder was the creation of the IRL itself....buts thats another thread....

the VS was a close second.....and lets not forget he still had another year on the abc/espn contract

[DBell]

While I agree that Versus is a disaster for the ratings and their coverage has regressed, I'm not sure that Versus is actually to blame for the production problems. Isn't IMS Productions the ones actually producing the coverage? I thought when the deal was announced, the IMS Productions were the ones responsible for the productions of races, Versus would provide the air time.

[Mark in Oshawa]

While I agree that Versus is a disaster for the ratings and their coverage has regressed, I'm not sure that Versus is actually to blame for the production problems. Isn't IMS Productions the ones actually producing the coverage? I thought when the deal was announced, the IMS Productions were the ones responsible for the productions of races, Versus would provide the air time.

Well if it was IMS productions doing this, then Randy Bernard will have direct control to make things better, in which case there is no excuse.

[nigelred5]

As long as he doesn't bring in the chick with hte man hands from the PBR broadcasts on Versus! eek!

[call_me_andrew]

How can you learn from SPEED's F1 coverage? FOM provides it's own TV feed and SPEED just adds commentators reporting from Charlotte, NC.

If there is a benchmark to lean from, it's NASCAR on CBS from the late 90's.

[Mark in Oshawa]

How can you learn from SPEED's F1 coverage? FOM provides it's own TV feed and SPEED just adds commentators reporting from Charlotte, NC.

If there is a benchmark to lean from, it's NASCAR on CBS from the late 90's.

Or Speed's domestic ALMS coverage. The Lingner group I believe still does that, and Terry Lingner, was/is one of the greatest producers of racing coverage anywhere.....

I would sign a check to him to go over to VS and IMS productions and get them in the picture...

Oh yes..and I would likely clean house in the on air crew....not many I would keep....but Tommy Kendall would find gainful employment...

[SarahFan]

Bottomline... for me anyhow

is it appears the coverage has gotten worse as the experiment has gone on

[Otto-Matic]

I though Versus was suppossedly going to be expanding its market? i dont knwo where I read this but back in April or so I thought they were potentially increasing the amount of homes they'd be broadcasted in for 2011? maye not...as a fan of the NHL as well, i get frustrated by the lack of availability Vs. has country wide. The race coverage is one thing; the lack of availability is another. I think if the later was taken care of the former would work it self out.

[anthonyvop]

I though Versus was suppossedly going to be expanding its market? i dont knwo where I read this but back in April or so I thought they were potentially increasing the amount of homes they'd be broadcasted in for 2011? maye not...as a fan of the NHL as well, i get frustrated by the lack of availability Vs. has country wide. The race coverage is one thing; the lack of availability is another. I think if the later was taken care of the former would work it self out.


Right now Comcast (Xfinity) is in the mix of taking over NBC. Once that is done VS will pretty much be on every Cable and Sat-Dish system that also carries NBC.

[Jag_Warrior]

How can you learn from SPEED's F1 coverage? FOM provides it's own TV feed and SPEED just adds commentators reporting from Charlotte, NC.

If there is a benchmark to lean from, it's NASCAR on CBS from the late 90's.

As far as what you see on track, that is true - although Speed also has a correspondent at each venue. But the commentators that Speed "just adds" are some of the most knowledgeable, well versed and enthusiastic talking heads in the business. I can't remember if it was Versus or ABC/ESPN, but during one IRL race this year there was a lead change during a pit stop between the Penske cars. The commentator talked right through it. I thought maybe I had gotten mixed up on who was leading. But that wasn't it. They were off talking about something else and actually missed a position change for the lead. Then about 30 seconds later, they mentioned it. :rolleyes: The team of Varsha, Hobbs and Matchett would have NEVER missed something like that. That was so basic and fundamental that it was unforgivable. At the start of another race, the announcers were talking during the start... and missed it (I think that was Marty Reid on ESPN). There's an old football saying that until you can block and tackle, you don't need to worry about running fancy routes.

It just seems to me that the announcers don't know what's going on half the time, I can't see what's going on half the time... and that combination is not one that encourages people to keep tuning in. In the case of ESPN, I get the feeling that they don't care/aren't interested. In the case of Versus, I just think it comes off as an amateur effort. I think they care... they just don't know what to do or how to do it. That's why I think IMS, or whomever, needs to get together with Versus and get this thing straightened out. I thought the move to Versus was goofy as hell when I first heard it and said so multiple times. But many claimed it would be like when NASCAR went to ESPN 20+ years ago. But NASCAR had solid teams and sponsors even before they went to ESPN. As they grew with ESPN, they just grew more. The IRL has never turned a profit (AFAIK) and isn't in that position. But now that they're stuck on Versus, they need to fix this ASAP.

[Mark in Oshawa]

As far as what you see on track, that is true - although Speed also has a correspondent at each venue. But the commentators that Speed "just adds" are some of the most knowledgeable, well versed and enthusiastic talking heads in the business. I can't remember if it was Versus or ABC/ESPN, but during one IRL race this year there was a lead change during a pit stop between the Penske cars. The commentator talked right through it. I thought maybe I had gotten mixed up on who was leading. But that wasn't it. They were off talking about something else and actually missed a position change for the lead. Then about 30 seconds later, they mentioned it. :rolleyes: The team of Varsha, Hobbs and Matchett would have NEVER missed something like that. That was so basic and fundamental that it was unforgivable. At the start of another race, the announcers were talking during the start... and missed it (I think that was Marty Reid on ESPN). There's an old football saying that until you can block and tackle, you don't need to worry about running fancy routes.

It just seems to me that the announcers don't know what's going on half the time, I can't see what's going on half the time... and that combination is not one that encourages people to keep tuning in. In the case of ESPN, I get the feeling that they don't care/aren't interested. In the case of Versus, I just think it comes off as an amateur effort. I think they care... they just don't know what to do or how to do it. That's why I think IMS, or whomever, needs to get together with Versus and get this thing straightened out. I thought the move to Versus was goofy as hell when I first heard it and said so multiple times. But many claimed it would be like when NASCAR went to ESPN 20+ years ago. But NASCAR had solid teams and sponsors even before they went to ESPN. As they grew with ESPN, they just grew more. The IRL has never turned a profit (AFAIK) and isn't in that position. But now that they're stuck on Versus, they need to fix this ASAP.

Jag, that start Marty missed was in Toronto...just babbled away right on through it...

It comes back to the director. The limited experience I have done doing live sports and my connections have told me over the years the director has to really understand what is relevent to the viewer and therefore must love the sport as a fan to really be good at it. The directors who are doing the VS coverage must not be racing fans. A racing fan wouldn't ignore that constant churn in the mid pack when the leader is running away. A Racing fan as a director would understand how pit stop snafu's can change the race and therefore devote full attention to it.

This problem isn't hard if they hire people who care and love the sport to present it. Right now, that aint happening...

As for ESPN/ABC, they were awful doing the IRL in the late 90's were no hell when they still did CART, and haven't done anything but regress. For the money and resources and people they have, it is gob smackingly stupid how bad they do.....

Bad TV is as much to blame for the IRL's ratings as anyting the IRL did on the track. I know I liked watching some IRL events but could only do it with the sound turned off at times...and that was 9 years ago when I started paying serious attention again to this series. It was bad then...it is almost the WORST now...

[Easy Drifter]

At most F1 races if there is nothing going on for the lead the Director is smart enough, or been briefed enough by Bernie's boys, that they go back in the pack and find something going on. The Speed crew and even the BBC crew will interupt a pit reporter's babbling if something happens on track. Further they do not go on in mid race about some semi technical bit of fluff or pure fluff. That is dealt with pre race.
Versus in particular has enough of a pre race show that all of that can be fitted in then. When the race is running stick to the race.
Way back when CTV showed the F Atlantic series, admittedly on a tape delay and it was filmed by an outside producer. The Producer and the Director were both knowledgeable and spent practice prowling the paddock sans cameras talking and learning. Quite often they were around after practice and qualifying finding out what was going on. Usually without cameras and they got to know all the regulars and crews. They did not just show up on race days.