BTCC Silverstone

[Allyc85]

What no thread and its mid afternoon, come on guys!

Martin Johnson is missing today as its his sons wedding but will be allowed to race tomorrow from the back of the grid.

Chilton was fastest in the morning, with series returnie Phil Glew in 16th..

1. Tom Chilton Team Aon Ford Focus ST 1min 01.084secs
2. Andrew Jordan Pirtek Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.114secs
3. Mat Jackson Airwaves BMW BMW 320si 1min 01.128secs
4. Gordon Shedden Team Honda Honda Civic 1min 01.221secs
5. Jason Plato Silverline Chevrolet Chevrolet Cruze 1min 01.247secs
6. Rob Collard West Surrey Racing BMW 320si 1min 01.324secs
7. Matt Neal Team Honda Honda Civic 1min 01.331secs
8. Tom Onslow-Cole Team Aon Ford Focus ST 1min 01.350secs
9. Tom Boardman Special Tuning (UK) SEAT Leon 1min 01.434secs
10. Dave Pinkney Pinkney Motorsport Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.452secs
11. Alex MacDowall Silverline Chevrolet Chevrolet Cruze 1min 01.538secs
12. Paul O'Neill sunshine.co.uk with Tech-Speed Honda Integra 1min 01.538secs
13. Steven Kane Airwaves BMW BMW 320si 1min 01.636secs
14. James Nash Triple Eight Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.693secs
15. Andy Neate West Surrey Racing BMW 320si 1min 01.897secs
16. Phil Glew Special Tuning (UK)/YourRacingCar SEAT Leon 1min 02.007secs
17. John George sunshine.co.uk with Tech-Speed Honda Integra 1min 02.035secs
18. Arthur Forster Forster Motorsport BMW 320si 1min 02.802secs
19. Shaun Hollamby AmD Milltek Racing Volkswagen Golf 1min 02.825secs
20. Martin Depper Forster Motorsport BMW 320si 1min 03.364secs
21. Lea Wood Central Group Racing Honda Integra No time
22. Martin Johnson Boulevard Team Racing Vauxhall Astra No time

While Jordan was fastest in the Afternoon..
1. Andrew Jordan Pirtek Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 00.650secs
2. Tom Onslow-Cole Team Aon Ford Focus ST 1min 00.655secs
3. Alex MacDowall Silverline Chevrolet Chevrolet Cruze 1min 00.760secs
4. Tom Chilton Team Aon Ford Focus ST 1min 00.765secs
5. Matt Neal Team Honda Honda Civic 1min 00.904secs
6. Jason Plato Silverline Chevrolet Chevrolet Cruze 1min 00.956secs
7. Steven Kane Airwaves BMW BMW 320si 1min 01.051secs
8. Paul O'Neill sunshine.co.uk with Tech-Speed Honda Integra 1min 01.109secs
9. Gordon Shedden Team Honda Honda Civic 1min 01.150secs
10. Rob Collard West Surrey Racing BMW 320si 1min 01.259secs
11. James Nash Triple Eight Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.265secs
12. Mat Jackson Airwaves BMW BMW 320si 1min 01.396secs
13. John George sunshine.co.uk with Tech-Speed Honda Integra 1min 01.447secs
14. Dave Pinkney Pinkney Motorsport Vauxhall Vectra 1min 01.463secs
15. Phil Glew Special Tuning (UK)/YourRacingCar SEAT Leon 1min 01.488secs
16. Tom Boardman Special Tuning (UK) SEAT Leon 1min 01.638secs
17. Andy Neate West Surrey Racing BMW 320si 1min 01.827secs
18. Arthur Forster Forster Motorsport BMW 320si 1min 02.414secs
19. Shaun Hollamby AmD Milltek Racing Volkswagen Golf 1min 02.864secs
20. Lea Wood Central Group Racing Honda Integra 1min 02.943secs
21. Martin Depper Forster Motorsport BMW 320si 1min 02.989secs
22. Martin Johnson Boulevard Team Racing Vauxhall Astra No time

[VkmSpouge]

I was going to ask why Martin Johnson had not put in an appearance but I guess missing qualifying for his son's wedding is a decent excuse ;)

Qualifying
1 Tom Onslow-Cole 59.659
2 Tom Chilton 59.881
3 Alex MacDowall 60.354
4 Jason Plato 60.491
5 Matt Neal 60.528
6 Andrew Jordan 60.636
7 Paul o'Neill 60.661
8 Rob Collard 60.662
9 James Nash 60.863
10 Gordon Shedden 60.922
11 Steven Kane 61.010
12 Tom Boardman 61.038
13 Mat Jackson 61.191
14 Dave Pinkney 61.221
15 John George 61.352
16 Andy Neate 61.590
17 Lea Wood 62.056
18 Arthur Forster 62.220
19 Shaun Hollamby 62.369
20 Phil Glew No time
21 Martin Depper No time
22 Martin Johnson No time

And cue more (justified) whinging about the Fords. Ignoring the Fords for a second the rest of the field is quite bunched up but Chevy are maintaining their advantage on the rest. Shame for Jackson failing that ride height check. What happened to Phil Glew?

[Eurotech]

Interestingly, Jordans time in FP2 would have only put him 14th in FP1.

[m0rk]

What happened to Phil Glew?

He snapped a driveshaft apparently - which is a shame


And cue more (justified) whinging about the Fords.

Makes a mockery of it all IMO

[AndySpeed]

I was going to ask why Martin Johnson had not put in an appearance but I guess missing qualifying for his son's wedding is a decent excuse ;)

You would have thought that his Son might have tried to arrange it for a different Saturday! But I suppose Martin isn't a professional racer and arranging weddings is tricky.

[VkmSpouge]

The Fords performance has been reduce once again http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2080 . Ideally I would have all cars running on the same fuel just to end all this.

[BDunnell]

The Fords performance has been reduce once again http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2080 . Ideally I would have all cars running on the same fuel just to end all this.

Leaving aside the complaints of other teams and drivers, no-one is arguing that the Focus, as it stood at the start of this season, was illegal according to the technical regulations published at the time? I think I'm right in saying that. Therefore, they should, as far as I'm concerned, be allowed to race unfettered by further restrictions. Yes, a loophole has clearly been exploited, but so what? It's like the Alfa 155's aero aids in 1994 all over again. Alfa were clever enough to recognise a loophole and homologated a car with that big rear wing and front splitter. So what if it was unfair on the other teams who hadn't done likewise? That, surely, was their problem.

[Dave B]

This is why I utterly despise multiple rules and equilisation measures. Who's to say they're not just doing a stunning job? Or being given a leg-up by the rules? It needs to be a level playing field, otherwise it's a farce.

[Eurotech]

I would have thought that the Diesel SEAT would have been a Clue to championship organisers that too much variety doesn't work. This is just another case. If (somehow) Aon were to win the championship this season it would just be a complete farce.

[BDunnell]

This is why I utterly despise multiple rules and equilisation measures. Who's to say they're not just doing a stunning job? Or being given a leg-up by the rules? It needs to be a level playing field, otherwise it's a farce.

But a level playing field that is not created by artificially restricting the performance of a legal car. As I said, has anyone suggested that the Focus, when it first appeared in LPG-fuelled form, was illegal according to the rules? Not to my knowledge. All that's been suggested is that it's unfairly fast. Those are quite different things. One should be clamped down on by TOCA. The other shouldn't.

[m0rk]

Who's to say they're not just doing a stunning job?

[flame suit on]
They're mediocre, "alright" at best drivers - pulling out huge distances on the straights, then lolloping round the corners (quote from one of the other drivers I know)

Granted, they had to apply for special dispensation because the gas powered N/A engines were such donkey's they had to have a turbo strapped on

I'm unsure of what the NGTC engines boost and rev to, but I would have hoped that the ford engine meets the same rules, if not - they should have done from the outset

[RMLCruzeing82]

The Fords performance has been reduce once again http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2080 . Ideally I would have all cars running on the same fuel just to end all this.

i agree 100% its getting stupid. im a chevy fan but i do feel sorry for the fords

[I am evil Homer]

[flame suit on]
They're mediocre, "alright" at best drivers - pulling out huge distances on the straights, then lolloping round the corners (quote from one of the other drivers I know)

Granted, they had to apply for special dispensation because the gas powered N/A engines were such donkey's they had to have a turbo strapped on

I'm unsure of what the NGTC engines boost and rev to, but I would have hoped that the ford engine meets the same rules, if not - they should have done from the outset

Except that both are race winners in other cars so that's pure bitterness. And if they're so far ahead in the championship...oh no wait they're fourth and seventh!!

Stll nice that Gow wants Plato to win the title nut handicapping the BMWs first and now the Fords.

[Wasted Talent]

Except that both are race winners in other cars so that's pure bitterness. And if they're so far ahead in the championship...oh no wait they're fourth and seventh!!

Stll nice that Gow wants Plato to win the title nut handicapping the BMWs first and now the Fords.

Agreed.

WT

[Allyc85]

Hollamby out of race day after engine problems that cant be fixed at the circuit :(

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86058

[Allyc85]

Why the hell dont the drivers get a bollocking for running off the track all the time, it makes them all look amateurish IMO! Nobody wnats to see the racing interupted by penalties but that was a joke and needs sorting out!

Not very happy with the Fords swap of position, TOC wasnt very convincing to me with his "missed gear", how do you do that with a sequential?

[VkmSpouge]

Race 1 Result:
1 Tom Chilton
2 Tom Onslow-Cole
3 Jason Plato
4 Alex MacDowall
5 Andrew Jordan
6 Rob Collard
7 Paul o'Neill
8 Matt Neal
9 Steven Kane
10 Gordon Shedden
11 James Nash
12 Tom Boardman
13 Mat Jackson
14 Phil Glew
15 Andy Neate
16 Lea Wood
17 John George
18 Martin Johnson
19 Arthur Forster
20 Martin Depper
DNF Dave Pinkney
DNS Shaun Hollamby

Tom Onslow-Cole lost the race lead to missing a gear, shame for him. Well done to Tom Chilton doing a good job taking the win. Andrew Jordan raced well but couldn't get by the Chevies.
Matt Neal's ram on Steven Kane was completed out of line. Kane had made contact going by Neal at Brooklands but it was nothing you don't see in every touring car race. For Neal to then ram the BMW was out of order, I think he should be punished.
Incredibly just one retirement, what happened to Pinkney?
Shame that Shaun Hollamby's weekend has been ruined by the engine problem. Maybe he should look at getting the NGTC engine for next year?

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Gow obviously doesn't want Plato to win that much.

[VkmSpouge]

Just looking at the speed traps and the restrictions TOCA have placed on the Fords seem to have worked to a degree. They were 5th and 8th over the sector 1 speed trap but still quickest over the start/finish line speed trap but by less than 1 mph.

[Eurotech]

I think that LPG and Diesel should be outlawed, being eco friendly in motorsport is pointless and should be forgotten to avoid any of this again.

[Allyc85]

Just looking at the speed traps and the restrictions TOCA have placed on the Fords seem to have worked to a degree. They were 5th and 8th over the sector 1 speed trap but still quickest over the start/finish line speed trap but by less than 1 mph.

Weird how Plato was still passed after initially getting ahead of one of the Fords onto the pit straight, must be something to do with the mid range torque of the engine I guess.

[AndySpeed]

Why the hell dont the drivers get a bollocking for running off the track all the time, it makes them all look amateurish IMO! Nobody wnats to see the racing interupted by penalties but that was a joke and needs sorting out!

I agree, a number of five second penalties to the offending drivers should sort it out!

[VkmSpouge]

Weird how Plato was still passed after initially getting ahead of one of the Fords onto the pit straight, must be something to do with the mid range torque of the engine I guess.

If they can find a way of adjusting just that then everything should be just about equalised.
I still would prefer it if everyone just ran petrol engines.

[Wasted Talent]

I agree, a number of five second penalties to the offending drivers should sort it out!

Plato appeared to be using the new Silverstone East circuit most of the race.

As for Matt Neal - he seems un-naturally attracted to others rears. Kane's move was side to side, not just a punt up the back like he got from Neal. Even when he got past without making contact I think Kane missed his braking point as he was wondering when the next tap was going to arrive

WT

[Eurotech]

If they can find a way of adjusting just that then everything should be just about equalised.
I still would prefer it if everyone just ran petrol engines.
I agree, makes things simpler for casual fans to understand as well

[VkmSpouge]

Sounds like Shaun Hollamby is planning to move to an NGTC-engine. He just said on ITV4 that next year he'll be using a 2.0l turbo.

[RMLCruzeing82]

I think that LPG and Diesel should be outlawed, being eco friendly in motorsport is pointless and should be forgotten to avoid any of this again.

i agree 100%

[Eurotech]

BOOYAH! Great Driving from Collard and O'Neill in that one. Great Racing probably one of the best of the season so far from my point of view :D

[VkmSpouge]

Race 2 Result:
1 Tom Chilton
2 Rob Collard
3 Tom Onslow-Cole
4 Jason Plato
5 Matt Neal
6 Paul o'Neill
7 Gordon Shedden
8 Steven Kane
9 Alex MacDowall
10 Mat Jackson
11 James Nash
12 Tom Boardman
13 Phil Glew
14 John George
15 Martin Depper
16 Martin Johnson
17 Arthur Forster
18 Andrew Jordan
DNF Lea Wood
DNF Dave Pinkney
DNF Andy Neate
DNS Shaun Hollamby

Another gearbox problem or was it tyres this time? Whatever, these team orders by Arena have cost Onslow-Cole 8 points this afternoon, he would be second in the championship otherwise.
Rob Collard's moves on Tom Onslow-Cole were too robust, he did decide to just shove the Ford out of the way.
I know the stewards were showing the black & white flag to some drivers but frankly they were still ignoring when they were defending or attacking, what's the point in showing it? The stewards should either allow this line or start punishing those who use it.

EDIT: Paul o'Neill on pole for race three. Get that victory, Owy!

[VkmSpouge]

Race 3 Result:
1 Tom Onslow-Cole
2 Paul o'Neill
3 Mat Jackson
4 Matt Neal
5 Gordon Shedden
6 Tom Chilton
7 Steven Kane
8 James Nash
9 Jason Plato
10 Alex MacDowall
11 Dave Pinkney
12 Rob Collard
13 Phil Glew
14 Andy Neate
15 Martin Johnson
16 Arthur Forster
DNF John George
DNF Andrew Jordan
DNF Tom Boardman
DNF Martin Depper
DNF Lea Wood
DNS Shaun Hollamby

Onslow-Cole finally taking a race win. He deserved it too. Paul o'Neill getting a great result in second place.
Matt Neal and Jason Plato's contact was just a racing incident to my mind but I daresay both will blame each other.
Very good performance by John George until his car broke.

[Eurotech]

Plato not a happy bunny by the sounds of it, that contact with Neal was a bit unneccessary from both sides. Paul O'Neill meanwhile showing that the Honda Integra is apparently the only car that can keep up with the Ford Focuses! Well Done Paul O'Neill and John George as well, A Great Days Racing :)

[vfj]

Well Done Paul Oneil Great Drive

[I am evil Homer]

I think that LPG and Diesel should be outlawed, being eco friendly in motorsport is pointless and should be forgotten to avoid any of this again.

Oh yeah right now you def wouldn't want to make racing at all relevant to road car manufacturers wanting to enter the BTCC. I anything it's bog standard petrols that should be gone.

[Robinho]

i didn't watch any of the races, but from what i've read it seems that The OC moved over twice for Chilton, I can't understand the rationale of this given that TOC was/is ahead in the championship. I know its Chiltons team, but TOC seems to be the best chance of actually winning the title, although the way they are going at the moment they could both end up at the top of the pile.

Can anyone explain or was there actually a gear shift problem on the OC's car?

[Mp3 Astra]

TOC having to move over for Chilton is an absolute joke. Why does Chilton get the upper hand despite, after winning two races, being a long way behind in the championship? So Chilton has a long-standing relationship with Earle and the gang; that shouldn't mean he becomes the spoiled brat. It's a farce, much like the whole situation of the LPG engine. Team AON aren't doing themselves any favours at the moment.

[VkmSpouge]

Despite being gifted two race wins, Tom Chilton still lost ground to Tom Onslow-Cole in the championship.

[Eurotech]

Oh yeah right now you def wouldn't want to make racing at all relevant to road car manufacturers wanting to enter the BTCC. I anything it's bog standard petrols that should be gone.
Why should petrols be gone? Racing is all about being the fastest and about being entertaining. The reason why Ferrari doesn't make any diesels is because oil burners don't abide with either of these criteria.

As long as F1 has Petrol, it remains the superior fuel imo.

[Les]

big cheers to TOC and John George. Both had great races today even though the results don't show their "true" finishing positions.
I think that was the best I have ever seen John race :)

[I am evil Homer]

Why should petrols be gone? Racing is all about being the fastest and about being entertaining. The reason why Ferrari doesn't make any diesels is because oil burners don't abide with either of these criteria.

As long as F1 has Petrol, it remains the superior fuel imo.

F1 is a prototype series. This is touring cars where relevancy to road models is vitally important. Its a marketing exercise for what are by and large mid-size family cars. The automotive trend is hybrids, turbo diesels and small capacity turbo petrol.

Of course equalisation is needed but the moaning about a legal car is a joke. Much like Aston moaning about diesels at Le Mans.

[Eurotech]

F1 is a prototype series. This is touring cars where relevancy to road models is vitally important. Its a marketing exercise for what are by and large mid-size family cars. The automotive trend is hybrids, turbo diesels and small capacity turbo petrol.
Thats all we need, people don't go to Touring Car meetings, see a Diesel SEAT in the WTCC and then expect to have the same engine in their Leon in the same way people don't go to Le Mans and expect an R15 powerplant in their Audi A3. Car manufacturers think that by racing a diesel they will sell more diesel cars. No they won't because racing enthusiasts often prefer a petrol engine (providing they can afford to run it) If they want to sell more diesel cars, advertise them on the TV, not the race track...

Turbos are bad news for motorsport. Remember the sounds of Metro 6R4's and Audi Quattros before Turbo engines muted the WRC? Thats going to happen to the BTCC soon enough and I think thats a shame because I always loved the sound of the screaming Petrol 4cyl engines.

Having a racing car and expecting it to be eco friendly is a bit like buying a house next to Croft Race Circuit and then complaining about the noise.... ;)

[BDunnell]

Thats all we need, people don't go to Touring Car meetings, see a Diesel SEAT in the WTCC and then expect to have the same engine in their Leon in the same way people don't go to Le Mans and expect an R15 powerplant in their Audi A3. Car manufacturers think that by racing a diesel they will sell more diesel cars. No they won't because racing enthusiasts often prefer a petrol engine (providing they can afford to run it) If they want to sell more diesel cars, advertise them on the TV, not the race track...

In talking about touring car championships, we're talking about championships in which the relationship with roadgoing models is more important than most formulae. It doesn't matter how distant that relationship really is in terms of performance, looks and do on. If roadgoing models are becoming more environmentally-friendly, so too should the racing versions. Simple as that. We are already going down that road. Manufacturers in particular won't want to be involved in touring cars if they won't have the opportunity to market the green credentials of the models in question.



Turbos are bad news for motorsport. Remember the sounds of Metro 6R4's and Audi Quattros before Turbo engines muted the WRC?

Your argument falls down a bit more here, because the Quattro was turbocharged.

[Mark]

Car manufacturers think that by racing a diesel they will sell more diesel cars. No they won't because racing enthusiasts often prefer a petrol engine (providing they can afford to run it) If they want to sell more diesel cars, advertise them on the TV, not the race track...

I disagree with that. There is a still a perception (albeit an inaccurate one) that Diesels are slow and low powered alternative to petrol. If you can show that you can race with diesel and win with it, it shows that it's just as good as petrol, if not better.

Sure, people who buy high performance cars will likely still want the petrol models, but that is not the target market!

[I am evil Homer]

Precisely...it's a marketing exercise as much as a developmental one. And in today's economy that outlay has to see a return so the racing series must be relevant to the cars in the show room. The trend is towards lower capacity turbo charged petrol and diesels as well as hybrids and alternative fuels. That's precisely why WRC went to a 1.6T for 2011 onwards...its what Ford and Citroen wanted.

I applaud Team Aon for taking the Focus and then a new fuel type and making it work so well. Now clearly they have an advatnage on certain circuits and some equalisation needs to happen (depsite them hardly dominating the series to date) but to suggest they shouldn't be allowed full stop is both non-sensical and short-sighted.

If the use of alternate fuels enocurages VW and or Volvo to enter cars from the STCC the beneficiary will be the BTCC and that's got to be a good thing.

[Eurotech]

These are valid points, but what is motorsport in aid of? Science or Entertainment?

[Eurotech]

Your argument falls down a bit more here, because the Quattro was turbocharged.
Ssshhhh! ;) fine then, how about the rallying legend that is the Ford Escort Mk2? :p

[MrJan]

These are valid points, but what is motorsport in aid of? Science or Entertainment?

It needs to do both. Manufacturers see it as a way to sell cars and will want to show how they are different from other car makers. This is where the science comes into play, if they can demonstrate that their diesel is stronger than most petrol cars then they will sell more diesels and appease the sandal wearers.

[Mark]

Science is for the likes of F1. Touring cars are supposed to be 'stock' after all.

[wedge]

TOC moving over for Chilton was an utter joke. Chilton Sr must be pleased with himself