Toyota announces WRC plans

[Rally Hokkaido]

Here is a link to Best Car magazine in Japan. You can see the cover of their next issue, which is due out on Monday. The headline says something like
"Toyota confirms WRC participation!!"

http://twitpic.com/2c1wcw

I will attempt to find a copy, tomorrow.

[N.O.T]

Thank god !!! hope they aim for full factory support

[Mirek]

That would be the best news of this year :)

[Tomi]

slowly but steady the wrc recovers once again :)

[pettersolberg29]

If Mini, Saab and now Toyota actually enter the WRC then things will be very exciting by 2012 I hope. Whether they actually enter, or it ends up like USF1 in Formula 1 I'm not sure, but its certainly encouraging.

[A.F.F.]

Well, Mini is with Prodrive so I'm not worried about them.

Saab is still only a rumour...

Toyota would be so cool. It just amazes me how long they spent time in F1 :mark:

I'm interested about Subaru and Mitsubishi... are they just going to follow when others take the opportunity ?

[emk]

Bridgestone quitting in F1 after 2010, WRC going for free tire in 2011, could this lead into Toyota+Bridgestone in WRC? We'll see...

[Allar]

Good news, again.
Now we need to wait for Saab and WV.

[pettersolberg29]

I assume the Auris would be the car used judging by the picture at the bottom left corner of the magazine. There is already a S2000 Auris in the South African Championship I believe.

[SubaruNorway]

The Auris has also been used in the Australian championship for 2-3 years now, both in group n and S2000 spec.

[vkangas]

If this rumor is true, I don't expect Auris.. It's an old model already. Maybe that is just a pick of that magazine to have a picture there.

[grugsticles]

Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please let this be so!

I think we all want this to happen. I know I do. Not that im a huge Toyota fan or anything, but for the sake of the sport I love a manufacturer with the pedigree and history is required. Toyota fit that bill perfectly.

As for that idea of Subaru and Mitsubishi sitting and waiting for the right moment... I got the impression that Mitsubishi dont have the money for a full WRC return, but Subaru might, assuming that the see a need to market their cars in the same fashion again.

[Allyc85]

Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please let this be so!

I think we all want this to happen. I know I do. Not that im a huge Toyota fan or anything, but for the sake of the sport I love a manufacturer with the pedigree and history is required. Toyota fit that bill perfectly.

As for that idea of Subaru and Mitsubishi sitting and waiting for the right moment... I got the impression that Mitsubishi dont have the money for a full WRC return, but Subaru might, assuming that the see a need to market their cars in the same fashion again.

Fully agreed with all of that :D :D

[alleskids]

Saab will not happen I am affraid. Spyker bought Saab with loaned money and money from the Saab dealers. They cannot afford a million euro WRC project.

[noel157]

Saab will not happen I am affraid. Spyker bought Saab with loaned money and money from the Saab dealers. They cannot afford a million euro WRC project.

Think you might be correct, seems more of a publicity stunt for the 9-1 car. Unless of course somebody else is going to underwrite the costs for them. And I suspect to build and develop a car will cost somewhat more than €1m. But we'll see.

[N.O.T]

things are looking good for the future indeed...with 4 manufacturers almost certain for the new decade of our sport we only have good times ahead of us.

[ToughMac]

It might just be a publicity stunt but if they are using the floorpan and the engine from the mini surely this reduces development costs considerably. Saab might enter as a manufacturer team but with the make up of a private team. This approach might just suit Spyker.

[AndyRAC]

While I really hope all these stories are true, call me cynical, isn’t it funny they’re all happening at the same time? I hope they’re not all put out by NorthOne.
However;

Ford,
Citroen,
Mini,
Toyota,
VW,
Saab,

With maybe 2-4 factory seats per team, thing could be looking up.

[Red bull]

what of the purius for toyota wrc?

[I am evil Homer]

No chance. Too big, couldn't use Synergy drive so utterly pointless

[Maui J.]

Fantastic news!
Seems like the WRC is on the up again.

I feel the promotors need to get super pro-active now to keep the momentum going. Mini and Toyota is a great start and I think they can build on it.

The old saying goes "To make money, you need to spend money first".
If I was a promotor I would invite the top dogs of the car companies to WRC events. Put them up in hotels, fly them by helicopter to the stages, get them really involved with the whole WRC atmosphere. Give them a real taste of the scene and a weekend to remember.
IMO this is money better spent than sitting around a boardroom table looking at pieces of paper.
Let the CEOs see first hand the cars going past and the crowds getting excited. The fans queuing up to get the drivers' autographs. Show them how close the spectators can get to the action, and the service parks, compared to other motorsport.

Initially I would target those companies who have a history of rallying already, but have been away for a few years... SEAT, Hyundai, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Skoda. The sales pitch wouldn't be so difficult with these companies, as they already have a good knowledge of the WRC.
I would also try to do the big push with car companies using rallying as part of their marketing programme but not involved in the sport's top level. PROTON is a good example of this at the moment. Grab them now while they are interested before they find something else to spend their marketing money on... like a billboard at a football game. You could also add Fiat (Abarth) and Renault to that list with their involvement with S2000 and S1600 programmes respectively. These are the companies that are best placed to take the next step up to play with the big boys.

Promote, promote, promote!!!

Look forward to Rally NZ 2012 with Citroen, Ford, Mini, Toyota, Saab, Proton and more screaming past me on the Whanga Coast Stage!

[noel157]

Proton?

[Sulland]

If Toyota will come back, they should use the FT-86 as basis, as with the Celica they started with success on their last rally campaign: http://www.ft86club.com/?p=276 it should come late 2011.

Saab should do a slow start and make a 9-2 R3T or something. But it would be perfect for the brand to come back to rally with this one !

http://www.autospies.com/images/users/Agent00R/main/saab9_2_render.jpg

[Motorsportfun]

While I really hope all these stories are true, call me cynical, isn’t it funny they’re all happening at the same time? I hope they’re not all put out by NorthOne.
However;

Ford,
Citroen,
Mini,
Toyota,
VW,
Saab,

With maybe 2-4 factory seats per team, thing could be looking up.

Simply, the changes imposed by North One TV to ISC (now North One Sport) are positive. The results are Mini and strong interest from many Manufacturers and organizers! ;)

I was right some months ago, during spring...

[navtheace]

Initially I would target those companies who have a history of rallying already, but have been away for a few years... SEAT, Hyundai, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Skoda. The sales pitch wouldn't be so difficult with these companies, as they already have a good knowledge of the WRC.

Good knowledge of how the world rally car rule just got out of hand more like and how the new S2000/S1.6T is already becoming like that.

Mitsubishi and Subaru don't need buttering up with helicoptor rides, as they know what rallying is about more than North One wrc promotions.

Manufacturers want cars that represent their road cars. Not S2000/S1.6T where bare bodyshells are being hacked into a special build competition cars. They can go to F1 and LeMans to do that.

[Mirek]

That applies only if You consider just Mitsubisi and Subaru as manufacturers. Others prefer special cars as they have nothing useful for rallying in their stock production.

It's way easier, quicker and less expensive for any manufacturer to build S2000 based car than to develop entirely new sports car for stock production without know-how, technologies and experience. Development of stock car is something completely different, takes years and needs hundreds of people and billions especially to establish production lines, after-sale services in every country etc. Moreover it's very doubtful that each manufacturer involved in WRC could sell 2500 expensive 4x4 sports cars per year. It's too specialized market which isn't unlimited. And even if they manage to do so it will most probably still be loss-making business. Leaders of car manufacturers know that and that's why I can't see any company starting a project like that. Moreover when it takes let's say five years from start of such production-based program to actual entrance into WRC.

[Motorsportfun]

]That applies only if You consider just Mitsubisi and Subaru as manufacturers. Others prefer special cars as they have nothing useful for rallying in their stock production.

It's way easier, quicker and less expensive for any manufacturer to build S2000 based car than to develop entirely new sports car for stock production without know-how, technologies and experience. Development of stock car is something completely different, takes years and needs hundreds of people and billions especially to establish production lines, after-sale services in every country etc. Moreover it's very doubtful that each manufacturer involved in WRC could sell 2500 expensive 4x4 sports cars per year. It's too specialized market which isn't unlimited. And even if they manage to do so it will most probably still be loss-making business. Leaders of car manufacturers know that and that's why I can't see any company starting a project like that. Moreover when it takes let's say five years from start of such production-based program to actual entrance into WRC.

:up: :up: :up:

Totally agree.

[Koppomsbo]

Has anyone actualy read the news story who is mentioned in the first post yet?

[OldF]

]That applies only if You consider just Mitsubisi and Subaru as manufacturers. Others prefer special cars as they have nothing useful for rallying in their stock production.

It's way easier, quicker and less expensive for any manufacturer to build S2000 based car than to develop entirely new sports car for stock production without know-how, technologies and experience. Development of stock car is something completely different, takes years and needs hundreds of people and billions especially to establish production lines, after-sale services in every country etc. Moreover it's very doubtful that each manufacturer involved in WRC could sell 2500 expensive 4x4 sports cars per year. It's too specialized market which isn't unlimited. And even if they manage to do so it will most probably still be loss-making business. Leaders of car manufacturers know that and that's why I can't see any company starting a project like that. Moreover when it takes let's say five years from start of such production-based program to actual entrance into WRC.

This is so true. As far as I know Mitsubishi manufacturers special homologation 2500 units that’s are lighter than the “actual” model from where all additional add-ons like air condition etc. are stripped. There are not many facture’s that can do this.

[Rally Power]

That's obvious and it's why R4 can't be viewed as a top WRC formula!

Maybe now our friend navtheace will understand.

Also it's pretty obvious that ISC moves aren't decisive to bring manufactureurs in (even if they helps).

The main factor to the renewed interest around WRC it's that finally, over almost 4 years, FIA has decided the techcnical rules for the next generation of WRC cars, because without them no make simply couldn't invest!

At that point we must congratulate Mr. Todt and his definitive resolution about the new regs (and hope that FIA can contain development costs of WRC1.6T cars, or in 3 or 4 years will be again debating the necessity of new cars!).

As for the Toyota news, wich must still be confirmed, that's really great to the sport, and could also be the definitive argument to VW's entry decision. :cool:

[bt52b]

Has anyone actualy read the news story who is mentioned in the first post yet?

My thoughts too, no other media source has come out with anything concrete.

PHOTOBYTE: Toyota anuncia entrada no WRC na próxima semana
http://autosport.aeiou.pt/gen.pl?p=stories&op=view&fokey=as.stories/88711

There was another japanese newsaper article, that said they would make a decision on doing WTCC/DTM/WRC/LMS towards end of August.

TTE are hiring at the moment, but it looks like its for a racing programme
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/

[J4MIE]

Didn't Toyota just announce profits of something like £1.2 billion?

How many times could they be world chwmpionship winners with that to spend? ;)

Hope it is going to happen, but not getting too excited yet.

[J4MIE]

Didn't Toyota just announce profits of something like £1.2 billion?

How many times could they be world chwmpionship winners with that to spend? ;)

Hope it is going to happen, but not getting too excited yet.

[noel157]

1.2 Billion? About half of what they burnt in F1.

Think I'll wait until we get official confirmation from Toyota.
Hope it becomes reality.

[Tom206wrc]

Good news if true...but I can't see them back at Le Mans in full factory endurance race + full factory WRC, too expensive !! :mark:

[Motorsportfun]

Good news if true...but I can't see them back at Le Mans in full factory endurance race + full factory WRC, too expensive !! :mark:

From a marketing point of view, Le Mans can't be sold to public for 12 months, it's like Dakar, a one-off event every year. With WRC they could invest better their money... ;)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Has anyone actualy read the news story who is mentioned in the first post yet?

My mistake with the publishing date, the magazine comes out, today (10th).
I will go look for a copy in a couple of hours and report back.

[ProRally]

My mistake with the publishing date, the magazine comes out, today (10th).
I will go look for a copy in a couple of hours and report back.

Domo arigato gosai masu....

[vino_93]

From a marketing point of view, Le Mans can't be sold to public for 12 months, it's like Dakar, a one-off event every year. With WRC they could invest better their money... ;)

But there will be probably a World Championship based on the new ILMC (Intercontinental Le Mans Cup).
A program WRC-WTCC should be the best solution for Toyota.

[AndyRAC]

But there will be probably a World Championship based on the new ILMC (Intercontinental Le Mans Cup).
A program WRC-WTCC should be the best solution for Toyota.

Yeah, Allan McNish speaking on MidweekMotorsport about a month or two ago said that Le Mans is very much a priority for Toyota. Don't know why they'd go the WTCC route - that's a dead-duck series. WRC and/or ILMS is a much better proposition. I'd love to see a Castrol sponsored Toyota on the stages, based from Cologne with the KAM registration plate.....

[Barreis]

I agree..

[Rally Hokkaido]

My mistake with the publishing date, the magazine comes out, today (10th).
I will go look for a copy in a couple of hours and report back.

My local newsagent told me the issue won't be here until 12th! The joys of living 'up country', I suppose!! Perhaps some Tokyo-based forumer can pick up a copy, today.

As we are approaching the Japanese equivalent of All Souls Day this weekend, I don't expect any official announcement from Toyota, this week. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there were joint announcements in Germany and Japan next week during or just before Rally Germany.

[Motorsportfun]

But there will be probably a World Championship based on the new ILMC (Intercontinental Le Mans Cup).
A program WRC-WTCC should be the best solution for Toyota.

My colleague follows all the WTCC season from the circuits, and he said it's possible to see Subaru for the first time in a works programme on track (WTCC) and Toyota in rallying, sharing the chassis and the engine of the FT-86 project.

Like Raikkonen says: wait and see. :D

[koko0703]

I won't be convinced about this news on Toyota's return to WRC until it's official. However, based on all the news coming out in last couple weeks in Japan, it is definitely true that Toyota is considering a return to a major international motorsport scene and WRC is one of the candidates, perhaps a strong candidate. And as far as I know, Toyota is interested in the form of motorsports in which they can promote their specific road model. I read somewhere that Toyota is not interested in prototype racing at the moment.

Now Subaru is under Toyota management, so I don't think there won't be Subaru return if Toyota does but Toyota can return under the Subaru brand.

[serial jeff]

Since when has Subaru been under Toyota management? :confused:

[grugsticles]

Since when has Subaru been under Toyota management? :confused:
Probably about a year now? maybe 18 months.
Toyota bought a substantial amount of FHI, but from memory I think it was less than 50%.

[ProRally]

Closer to around or just above 40% now

[Motorsportfun]

Closer to around or just above 40% now

I know Toyota bought about 17% of FHI from GM.

[ProRally]

I know Toyota bought about 17% of FHI from GM.

Buying more and more slowly... now at just 40% or just over....

[RICARDO75]

My mistake with the publishing date, the magazine comes out, today (10th).
I will go look for a copy in a couple of hours and report back.

Hello Rally Hokkaido.
Do you have more news for us about Toyota?

[Voice of Rally]

Hi Guys,

We talked about Toyota on last nights Totalrally show. It seems all the WRC talk is a little premature. The gentleman from Toyota who made the remarks did so off the cuff and was apparently seriously reprimanded by his bosses. I'm told he's a big fan of TTE and there was a degree of self interest in what he said. Officially Toyota are still considering their options and have made no final decision on when and where they may return to motorsport.

[serial jeff]

Wow I had still thought the 17% they bought from GM was all they owned. I hope they don't take over completely.

Anyway, I'd be a bit surprised to see Toyota back in the wrc because to me, rally fans don't seem like any of their target markets. Though I like in North America where nobody really follows the WRC anyway so who knows. Maybe it's different in Europe. Over here they are seen as the quintessential family vehicle, and all their marketing indicates that they're trying to keep it that way.

[Mirek]

At least currently prepared FT-86 is anything but family vehicle and would need different kind of marketing tools ;)

[Tomi]

Wow I had still thought the 17% they bought from GM was all they owned. I hope they don't take over completely.

Anyway, I'd be a bit surprised to see Toyota back in the wrc because to me, rally fans don't seem like any of their target markets. Though I like in North America where nobody really follows the WRC anyway so who knows. Maybe it's different in Europe. Over here they are seen as the quintessential family vehicle, and all their marketing indicates that they're trying to keep it that way.

Can well be that they are looking for other markets with a WRC campaign, they have a great history in rallying, not many can beat what they have acchived.
I belive that they are looking for growth elsewhere, now that they got their share of the car industry protectionism in usa, their strategy might change.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Hello Rally Hokkaido.
Do you have more news for us about Toyota?

Yes, I finally found a copy, today. As per the graphics on the front cover photo I posted at the start of this thread, Toyota's WRC return is one of three 'scoops' in this issue. The others are about a Nissan GT-R Cup car uncovered at a secret test and a planned replacement for the Toyota Altessa (Lexus LS250?), which will be a four-door version of the Subaru-engineered FT-86. This last article ties in with the Toyota WRC one as it casts doubt about the marketing success of building a non-turbo RWD sports car (hence the plan to sell a second model based on the same floorpan). Though the FT-86 debut has already been pushed back a year to the last quarter of next year, Best Car speculates that it will be more likely 2013, if at all.

That rules out using the FT-86 as a base car if Toyota plans to return to WRC in 2012. Much of the three-page article about Toyota's return to WRC is devoted to reinforcing the magazine's speculation that their base car will be the next generation Auris (the WRC mock-up on the magazine cover), which is due to be released next year. Here are the other main points I've found in the article:

Best Car asked a Toyota spokesman about their return to WRC and was told it is 100% certain

Toyota's international motorsport plans will now not be announced until September (at Rally Japan?)

No decision has been made as to whether the WRC Team will be an in-house operation (TTE?) or sub-contracted to a private team

So, nothing official from Toyota, yet. However, based on this article (Best Car magazine specialises in new car scoops with a strong reputation for accuracy, so they obviously have good sources within the car companies), the official Toyota leak in July about their return to international motorsport and the visit to Rally Portugal by the Toyota VIPs, I'd say there's a 95% chance we will see a Toyota WRCar competing in 2012.

[Maui J.]

Hey Hokkaido,

Thanks for the info. That news sounds very promising. Hopefully their sources are good and we will see the Auris WRC testing in 2011 and a full campaign in 2012.

[HaCo]

WRC or FIA GT1?
http://www.gt1world.com/news/article/lexus-linked-with-gt1-

Funny how easy GT1 World Championship can fill a field compared to WRC.

[306 Cosworth]

While I really hope all these stories are true, call me cynical, isn’t it funny they’re all happening at the same time? I hope they’re not all put out by NorthOne.
However;

Ford,
Citroen,
Mini,
Toyota,
VW,
Saab,

With maybe 2-4 factory seats per team, thing could be looking up.

VW or VAG are busy running the Skoda IRC team so doubt we'll see VW in the WRC. More likely Skoda again

[ProRally]

VW or VAG are busy running the Skoda IRC team so doubt we'll see VW in the WRC. More likely Skoda again

VW Motorsport led by Kris Nissen has nothing to see/do with Skoda IRC or S2000 campaign.

Maybe both will do it.

PSA group has Peugeot Sport and Citroën Sport also.... so VAG group could do similar....

[Mirek]

Skoda is doing only what VAG allows and wants. VAG doesn't need two brands doing the same and it won't have them. Just my opinion...

[Tomi]

VW Motorsport led by Kris Nissen has nothing to see/do with Skoda IRC or S2000 campaign.

Maybe both will do it.

PSA group has Peugeot Sport and Citroën Sport also.... so VAG group could do similar....

Did not PSA announce a few months ago that Peugeot will focus on track racing and Citroen in rally?

[RICARDO75]

]Skoda is doing only what VAG allows and wants. VAG doesn't need two brands doing the same and it won't have them. Just my opinion...

Skoda and Seat were involved at wrc at the same time until 2000.
But I also know that was in the days when there was more money

[Barreis]

VW is working on 1.6T engine for 2012 so maybe it can be also WRC version..

[m.lowe]

Anymore pics of that Toyota WRC prototype from that magazine

[Rally Hokkaido]

Only a larger one of the same photo on the front cover. It's not a prototype - just a photoshop job based on a photo of the standard next generation Auris.
There's a photo of a standard next generation Auris at the same angle in the article.

Recent posts on this thread have discussed two more points that were in the article. Best Car sugggested that while the Toyota brand would be used in WRC, the Lexus brand would be used in any racing programme (FIA-GT, DTM or Le Mans Series). However, the Toyota spokesman they met stated that the idea of joining the FIA-GT (DTM? Le Mans Series?) had been dismissed as it was not a well known category (by their customer base).

The article then continued about the target market for the Auris (=mainly Europe) and their main rival there, which is VW and its Golf model. It speculated that VW could announce its own WRC programme as early as next week's Rally of Germany. And while the new downsized WRCar regs would seem to suit VW's Polo model, from a marketing point of view the Golf would make better sense as their WRC base car, according to Best Car.

In summary, we have seen before where a car maker's marketing people decide the choice of WRC car (307CC!), not their engineers or competition department and it looks like it will be no different in Toyota's (and VW's?) case.

[m.lowe]

Could you scan the larger one for me please

[A.F.F.]

Did not PSA announce a few months ago that Peugeot will focus on track racing and Citroen in rally?

Plus I remember someone important from PSA saying that Peugeot and Citroen will NEVER compete against each others in rallying again.

But how about privateers or satellite teams.... in case PSA builds a suitable Peugeot ??

[Tomi]

Plus I remember someone important from PSA saying that Peugeot and Citroen will NEVER compete against each others in rallying again.

But how about privateers or satellite teams.... in case PSA builds a suitable Peugeot ??

Not sure, but I belive there wont be any Peugeot rallycars after a while (after 1 year or so), only track racing Peugeots.

[I am evil Homer]

I guess in the PSA case it would depend on whether you could buy the PSA 1.6T engine from the DS3 model on its own and then put it into the 207 shell? But I struggle to think why you'd bother really.

[Barreis]

I hope that some Turan in Peugeot will destroy some works Finns next year.. xd

[A.F.F.]

I guess in the PSA case it would depend on whether you could buy the PSA 1.6T engine from the DS3 model on its own and then put it into the 207 shell? But I struggle to think why you'd bother really.

Only in RallyCross.

[Addicted]

I hope that some Turan in Peugeot will destroy some works Finns next year.. xd

I wonder why you didn`t want him to replace any Finns, Brits or any other team drivers after rallly Portugal? After all he was so close humiliate most of the S2000 drivers.

[J.Lindstroem]

Anymore news regarding Toyotas plans?

[Blitzerflitzer]

Anymore news regarding Toyotas plans?

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2010/08/25/toyota-daumen-hoch-fuer-wrc/index.html

Short Version: they waiting for the decision from japan.

[rv65]

If Toyota were to use the Yaris in the WRC, it would likely be the next generation one, not the current Yaris. The next gen Yaris, might as well have the waiver, as the next one might use a bunch of the current cars bodywork. A Yaris WRCar wouldn't be so bad afterall. I don't think the Auris would work that well.

[N.O.T]

If Toyota were to use the Yaris in the WRC, it would likely be the next generation one, not the current Yaris. The next gen Yaris, might as well have the waiver, as the next one might use a bunch of the current cars bodywork. A Yaris WRCar wouldn't be so bad afterall. I don't think the Auris would work that well.

Not long enough to fit the regulations.

[rv65]

The next gen Yaris might gain a little bit in size.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Toyota-Yaris/251859/

This Yaris mule is noticeably bigger than the current one. This would make it perfect for the WRC.

[navtheace]

This new 'rush' is like how it was in 1997 when the world rally car rules came into play.

Loads of manufacturers get involved, then over time they drop out one by one. When they realise that these over priced custom made hidious body kitted rally cars have no connection with the road cars that are sold.

[OldF]

This new 'rush' is like how it was in 1997 when the world rally car rules came into play.

Loads of manufacturers get involved, then over time they drop out one by one. When they realise that these over priced custom made hidious body kitted rally cars have no connection with the road cars that are sold.

There were lots of 2wd teams in the beginning of the grp A era but the last one (Nissan) disappeared by the end of 1992. By the numbers 1999 – 2005 was the best era in WRC if counting teams attended.


1987: 11 teams (3 4wd)
1988: 9 teams (3 4wd)
1989: 9 teams (4 4wd)
1990: 9 teams (6 4wd)
1991: 7 teams (6 4wd)
1992: 6 teams (5 4wd)
1993: 5 teams, all 4wd
1994: 4 teams, all 4wd
1995: 4 teams, all 4wd
1996: 3 teams, all 4wd
1997: 4 teams, all 4wd
1998: 5 teams, all 4wd
1999: 7 teams, all 4wd
2000: 7 teams, all 4wd
2001: 7 teams, all 4wd
2002: 7 teams, all 4wd
2003: 6 teams, all 4wd
2004: 6 teams, all 4wd
2005: 6 teams, all 4wd
2006: 6 teams, 5 makes, all 4wd
2007: 6 teams, 5 makes, all 4wd
2008: 6 teams, 4 makes, all 4wd
2009: 5 teams, 2 makes, all 4wd

[serial jeff]

The next gen Yaris might gain a little bit in size.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Toyota-Yaris/251859/

I wish rally cars would be based on legitimate sportscars :( I really don't want to see a Yaris WRC... seriously, the Yaris is made for parents to haul their kids to the grocery store. I have the same complaint about the Fiesta. If only they'd sell a higher powered 4wd version like the wrx.

[Motorsportfun]

Not long enough to fit the regulations.

Long enouth, IMHO. Bigger bumpers (like Peugeot 206 "GT" version) and go on... :p

[navtheace]

I wish rally cars would be based on legitimate sportscars :( I really don't want to see a Yaris WRC... seriously, the Yaris is made for parents to haul their kids to the grocery store. I have the same complaint about the Fiesta. If only they'd sell a higher powered 4wd version like the wrx.

If the FIA moved rallying to R1,2,3,4 classes only. ie like it was GpA and GpN before world rally cars.

Then we would see the rally cars based on sports cars from the manufacturer than you can buy.

[Mirek]

That's nice dream but quite very unreal in case of R4.

[sollitt]

The difficulty with Yaris will be the room under the hood/bonnet. Not so much the width but the depth.
Auris/Corolla is good and has worked very well in S2000 in this part of the world.

[Ferjancz]

Hi all,

Well it's great news about Toyota returning in the WRC. The first rumor that Toyota is about to be back in the WRC was that they are gonna do this with the support of Prodrive - http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/160826/1/toyota_to_team_up_with_prodrive_for_2011.html?utm_ source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletterlink

A mounth later there was an official statement that Prodrive will co-operate with BMW , preparing the new Mini. And now Toyota , maybe will make the car by themselves, which is something they can do for sure and they have done it before :D May be Prodrive have seen much bigger budget in BMW :) Afterall I'm not sure Toyota-Prodrive is the right combination. Anyway if they return to rally, nomatter how - alone or along with someone else, it will be great just great :) :D


P.S. If my English is not ok , well sorry :)

[the_hatrix]

Any chance of them using the Matrix?

[S77wrc]

Maybe the Yaris?... Same as the Pug 206.. Stick a set of large bumpers on it and your away.. Nice..

There is also in fact that huge infrastructure in KOLN (Cologne) with personel just sitting there and waiting for something to do.
The JAPANESE must be eager to give them work.
As far as rally is concerned, I can see a purely commercial outfit happening at best. Develop, build and supply to some importers and customers who want to compete.

[I am evil Homer]

Pug 206 production model was 3835mm then needed those bumpers. Current Yaris is 3750 so the new one had better be bigger to even get close.

Seems like another decision driven by the marketing team.

[bluuford]

Pug 206 production model was 3835mm then needed those bumpers. Current Yaris is 3750 so the new one had better be bigger to even get close.

Seems like another decision driven by the marketing team.

25 cm with bumpers would look like a iron :-)

[sal]

Toyota arnt coming to the party as they think the regs have gone the wrong way and that it was the European manufacturers who were pushing for 1.6 turbos. Toyota want(ed) to build a car to S2000 regs so that they could use the motor in a touring car as well.

[Mirek]

But touring cars (WTCC) are also going to use same 1.6T engine.

[Motorsportfun]

sal, source?

[sal]

The story is in this weeks Autosport magazine in the UK. Senior Toyota guy who's name I dont have with me here, is quoted as saying that after their experiences in F1 any future Toyota motorsport programme will have to generate income thru customer sales. He states that it is their view that the European manufacturers pushed for 1.6 turbo engines in the WRC as that suited the situation in their major markets i.e the move the small turbo engines for emmisions reasons but that this requirment was not mirrored in Japan. Toyota wanted to build a car to S2000 regs so that the engine could also be used in a future touring car project The article goes on to mention that a sportscar programme is looking more and more likely.

[bt52b]

The story is in this weeks Autosport magazine in the UK. Senior Toyota guy who's name I dont have with me here, is quoted as saying that after their experiences in F1 any future Toyota motorsport programme will have to generate income thru customer sales. He states that it is their view that the European manufacturers pushed for 1.6 turbo engines in the WRC as that suited the situation in their major markets i.e the move the small turbo engines for emmisions reasons but that this requirment was not mirrored in Japan. Toyota wanted to build a car to S2000 regs so that the engine could also be used in a future touring car project The article goes on to mention that a sportscar programme is looking more and more likely.

Hiromi Hayashi General Manager Toyota Motorsport "one condition is that the programme has to be profitable"

The article also says Cologne prefers a S2000 rally/touring car project, Japan favour a GT2 programme.

Decision due end of October.

Its really odd Toyota would barf on the thought of a 1.6l turbo engine, but might prefer a V8 or V10 sportscar programe. This coming from the manufacturer of the holier than thou Pious ecobox.

[Sulland]

Hiromi Hayashi General Manager Toyota Motorsport "one condition is that the programme has to be profitable"

The article also says Cologne prefers a S2000 rally/touring car project, Japan favour a GT2 programme.

Decision due end of October.

Its really odd Toyota would barf on the thought of a 1.6l turbo engine, but might prefer a V8 or V10 sportscar programe. This coming from the manufacturer of the holier than thou Pious ecobox.

If profit is a part of the deal, rally will win. GT2 can never make the nubers produced as in rally.

[bt52b]

If profit is a part of the deal, rally will win. GT2 can never make the nubers produced as in rally.

GT2, GT3 and GT4 are pretty strong. They could sell shedloads of cars to customers of these classes. Just look at the sales of Porsche and Audi GT3 cars.

[AndyRAC]

GT2, GT3 and GT4 are pretty strong. They could sell shedloads of cars to customers of these classes. Just look at the sales of Porsche and Audi GT3 cars.

Yeah, exactly, and remember the US market, especially for the ALMS. Up against Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari.......

[Josti]

I don't know, in my opinion, F1 or Sports car racing doesn't suit the image of Toyota at all (same goes for VW). Both one of the worlds biggest brands of masses production cars.

Therefore I think they should relate their road cars to motorsport, instead of these kind of projects where the customer can't identify with at all.

[Tom206wrc]

Official partnership between Toyota Motorsport(engine supplyer)and swiss team Rebellion Racing the the 2011 endurance racing program !!!! Smells a future coming back of Toy' at Le Mans some year...cool :cool:

[OldF]

I don’t see it impossible for Toyota to run both sportscar and WRC as Ford do in GT1 series. Or maybe in the new WRC GT.

http://www.gt1world.com/cars/spec/ford-gt

[AndyRAC]

I don’t see it impossible for Toyota to run both sportscar and WRC as Ford do in GT1 series. Or maybe in the new WRC GT.

http://www.gt1world.com/cars/spec/ford-gt

Ford have very little to do with the GT1 cars - they are all run by Privateers.

[wrcnut]

VW have said they're coming to the WRC. They just don't know when.

[nzabevAMSM]

VW have said they're coming to the WRC. They just don't know when.

When? Source?

[N.O.T]

words cost nothing and its free publicity....

[rallyfiend]

words cost nothing and its free publicity....

Well, they're certainly not going to announce it until after Dakar. Why kill one programme until it's finished? That's negative publicity.

[Bruce D]

Maybe so, but I do find it interesting that Gineal de Villiers is competing in the South African Rally Championship next year in a Polo S2000. Getting some rally experience before they go into the WRC maybe?

[Gard]

Maybe so, but I do find it interesting that Gineal de Villiers is competing in the South African Rally Championship next year in a Polo S2000. Getting some rally experience before they go into the WRC maybe?
The South African Polo programme had been going since the start of S2000. to my knowledge it's a private project.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Maybe so, but I do find it interesting that Gineal de Villiers is competing in the South African Rally Championship next year in a Polo S2000. Getting some rally experience before they go into the WRC maybe?

Surely de Villiers wouldn't be their WRC choice ... That's as if an rally manufacter interested in rally raid sends Duval to training :D

[Mirek]

The South African Polo programme had been going since the start of S2000. to my knowledge it's a private project.

No, it's works project of VW Motorsport South Africa.

[Bobcat]

Ford have very little to do with the GT1 cars - they are all run by Privateers.
All the teams of the new GT1 World Championship are run by privateers.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Only a larger one of the same photo on the front cover. It's not a prototype - just a photoshop job based on a photo of the standard next generation Auris.
There's a photo of a standard next generation Auris at the same angle in the article.

Recent posts on this thread have discussed two more points that were in the article. Best Car sugggested that while the Toyota brand would be used in WRC, the Lexus brand would be used in any racing programme (FIA-GT, DTM or Le Mans Series). However, the Toyota spokesman they met stated that the idea of joining the FIA-GT (DTM? Le Mans Series?) had been dismissed as it was not a well known category (by their customer base).

The article then continued about the target market for the Auris (=mainly Europe) and their main rival there, which is VW and its Golf model. It speculated that VW could announce its own WRC programme as early as next week's Rally of Germany. And while the new downsized WRCar regs would seem to suit VW's Polo model, from a marketing point of view the Golf would make better sense as their WRC base car, according to Best Car.

In summary, we have seen before where a car maker's marketing people decide the choice of WRC car (307CC!), not their engineers or competition department and it looks like it will be no different in Toyota's (and VW's?) case.

Since I saw the first article about Toyota's return to WRC in the August issue of Best Car, the magazine has had follow-up articles nearly every month. I hadn't bothered quoting them all here as it started to appear to me like the magazine was simply pushing an idea they would like to see happen. That is, more like a dream than a rumour!

However, recently two happenings have made me think that Best Car's inside information might be genuine.

As per their August article, VW have indeed announced their WRC entry. IIRC, in the September article they stated that Toyota would use the soon-to-be-released Yaris as their base WRCar, not the Auris. The reasoning given was that VW would use the Polo, which is the Yaris' market rival. (OK, that is yet to be confirmed by VW).

Last week, I was told by a reliable source that a well-known Japanese rally driver was doing secret suspension testing here for Toyota in a Yaris WRC test mule. I will be checking the next issue of Best Car to see if they know about this!

[HaCo]

The Yaris Hybrid will be presented in March in the Geneva Auto Show:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fSvarQSvbd0/TUv3Do6tdCI/AAAAAAAACTM/OmCp88-hoQk/s1600/Toyota-Yaris-Hybrid.jpg
http://electric-vehicles-cars-bikes.blogspot.com/2011/02/toyota-yaris-hybrid-concept-teaser.html

That's the left upper car on this image:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/01/prius-family.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/12/video-toyota-asks-what-is-the-plural-of-prius/

Looking forward to have (much) more manus in WRC again!

[Rally Hokkaido]

Here is a bit more fuel for the rumour. It would be useful to have an off-the-shelf-engine to
further develop for use in your new WRCar!

http://www.automobilsport.com/btcc-dynojet-secures-toyota-power-ngtc-turbo-engine-scott-brownlee---87416.html

[HaCo]

Here is a bit more fuel for the rumour. It would be useful to have an off-the-shelf-engine to
further develop for use in your new WRCar!

http://www.automobilsport.com/btcc-dynojet-secures-toyota-power-ngtc-turbo-engine-scott-brownlee---87416.html

These are 2lTurbo engines, not 1.6T?

[Rally Hokkaido]

These are 2lTurbo engines, not 1.6T?

Yes, you are correct!
Sorry I confused the new BTCC engines (NGTC) with the new WTCC engines, which are 1.6 litre turbo.

[NaBUru38]

The reasoning given was that VW would use the Polo, which is the Yaris' market rival.
That reasoning is unreasonable. Both are B-segment cars indeed, but Yaris' direct rivals are Asian, not European like the Polo and Fiesta, much less the DS3.

[Walach]

Just a photoshop....:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qmwdM_8Ln-Q/TSzpj2FIdhI/AAAAAAAASuE/sM3ZVYMdJ9o/s1600/Toyota+Vitz+%25E3%2583%25B4%25E3%2582%25A3%25E3%25 83%2583%25E3%2583%2584+%2528Yaris%2529+WRC+2012.jp g

[Mise]

http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/wwwrallyreportnewsworldcom/toyota-mulls-return-to-le-mans-wrc-2012/180931955275310 (http://www.facebook.com/#%21/notes/wwwrallyreportnewsworldcom/toyota-mulls-return-to-le-mans-wrc-2012/180931955275310)

Is this artcle just a romer or could it be true.

[Barreis]

It would be nice..

[tfp]

It would be nice..

Especially with Castrol livery and king carlos behind the wheel:-)

[koko0703]

Maybe just me not noticing it before but during Rally Sweden, Toyota is posting their ad for Auris on the top page of wrc.com. I think this is at least an indication of their interest in WRC. While ago, Toyota said the program has to be profitable by itself if they were to enter the WRC, and seeing so many customer Ford's in Sweden, maybe they found a hint for their business side, too.

[not12listen]

any further update on this?

a Rallycross Rally Hillclimbing group stated that Toyota was 100% coming back to WRC, but no source was given... so, i am taking it with a grain of salt until an official announcement is made.

[J.Lindstroem]

When i saw this thread i had big hopes.

[Miika]

They got the Le Mans program going but I guess no room for a WRC program then?


http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2012/01/40d3bef3040bfae776db67077ae59df8.jpg
https://twitter.com/#!/ToyotaPR/status/159601461666385920

[MJW]

Hmm, Peugeot withdrawing from endurance racing and Jean Todt on about hybrids coming to wrc. Is that enough to tempt Toyota?

[A.F.F.]

No smoke without fire? From everywhere comes rumours about Toyota's interest of joining in... Hopefully it'll turn out true someday.

[N.O.T]

They should have never abandoned WRC to join the ladyboy F1 sport...

They had exposure, sponsoring, many fans and their cars were the most popular among private WRC entries... but they choose a girl sport instead of Rallying, lost millions for nothing and if they want to come back now they have to fight against the experiience of Citroen and the aggresive coming of the VAG Group... good luck with that.

[rv65]

One Youtube commenter said that Toyota would join the WRC next year, and that his "friend" was working on it. I could see Toyota joining the WRC if WRCars become hybrid. Maybe that could tempt Honda? Of course, people who post comments on Youtube are not the most trust worthy people out there, so do not take this seriously. Rallye-Magazin.de did say that Toyota ordered parts for a WRCar. I think Toyota will focus on LeMans for now and maybe wait until the WRC allows hybrids or does something that Toyota likes. TMG did build a Yaris R1, so maybe that is a precursor to a WRC program.

[Plan9]

I wish Toyota would come to the WRC but only with a more exciting car than the Yaris, I mean its not in the same league as a DS3 or Fiesta RS in terms of "hot-hatchness". Would Toyota expect the FIA to organize an event in Asia/Japan if it was to seriously commit?

[Sulland]

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426165_10150708227745733_206160890732_11578721_482 994227_n.j

How old and photoshopped is this one ?

[N.O.T]

Flog that Dead horse even harder !!!!!! make it suffer !!!!!

[Toyota Team History]

Toyota is coming back that for shore. latest 2014. There is yaris or auris they will base this wrc car on.
Just follow the rally sceen and you will see that toyota will be more and more to see.

[ToughMac]

Toyota Mulls Return to Le Mans, WRC (http://www.insideline.com/toyota/toyota-mulls-return-to-le-mans-wrc.html)

This article is a little over a year old but still makes a good read

Also the Japanese have a thing about the number 13. Can't see them wanting to make a debut in 2013 if they were to develop a car.

[Toyota Team History]

its all about politic... if it was up to tmg, they already had a wrc car ready.
the japanes want to finish the Le Mans program first and then they will go into wrc. Tmg are now making some cup cars on the yaris and also working on the homoligation on the new gt86 that also will be a cup car made from tmg. And that will be a fun car new rwd rally car...
and after that the new wrc coming.
They going step by step becouse when they go into wrc now it is to win.

[ToughMac]

... Are you joking, or ......?

Nope. Just look at Subaru S11 S12 S12b S12c S14 see the pattern. Its a cultural thing, don't know the reasoning behind it though.

[sollitt]

Hmmm, N13 Pulsar, U13 Bluebird, C13 Mirage, G13 Daihatsu, 13T Toyota ....
I used to travel to Japan about 13 times each year and I never heard about this superstition. The planes even flew on the 13th.

[rv65]

Sounds like Toyota is developing a R-GT version of the GT-86.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus via Tapatalk.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

ACP rallies a scion here in the US. :D

[6789]

Toyota developing 1.6L direct injection turbo? - APRC.TV - Asia Pacific Rally Championship Television Production News (http://www.aprc.tv/newsPage.php?Is-Toyota-Returning-Rallying-556)

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[HaCo]

Let's keep on hoping, even if it is only a light GT.

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

[rv65]

Toyota has the budget to do WRC and LeMans combined. Toyota could easily outspend the big teams in WRC, if they wanted to.

[6789]

WRC.com article

World Rally Championship - News - Toyota linked to WRC entry (http://www.wrc.com/news/toyota-linked-to-wrc-entry/?fid=16473&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Well, today I had a quick browse of the latest copy of the magazine that I quoted in this thread's original post. Best Car's content mainly concerns new car scoops and this issue was no exception, prefacing a host of future models, many coming from Toyota.
Pix (photoshopped?) of two performance versions of the new Yaris caught my eye, so I skimmed through the story about them. Both are based on the 3-door platform, which is not sold in Japan.
The first was named GRMN? and will go on sale in Australia next year. It will feature a turbocharged 1.5 litre engine..hmmm!
The magazine calls the second model, shown with a Focus WRC like rear wing, the 'road- going version of the WRC model'. Possibly to be named 'RS' and to be built by TMG, it will go on sale in Europe in 2014. If I understood correctly, the writer remarks about its expected price and then goes on to write that the actual WRC car will be sold for between JPY40,000,000 and JPY50,000,000! Finally, the most important news for us is where he states that Toyota's official WRC announcement will be made in August, this year.

[HaCo]

Check this article on auto blog: http://i.autoblog.com/2012/04/09/toyota-to-field-gt-86-pair-at-the-nurburgring-24-could-wrc-be/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+weblogsinc%252Fautoblog+%25 28Autoblog%2529&utm_content=FaceBook

With a video presenting Japanese ft86 rally challenge.

Toyota will enter 2 cars in the 24hrs of the nurburgring. But auto blog thinks wrc is even further away because of this.

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

free publicity...

Serious car makes like VW DO things

Little scared doggys without owners cry all the time to get attention...

This is what happens when you leave a mens sport to join ladyboy cup for fat fans with flags and stupid hats... you are sentenced in Ladyboy attitude for life...

[Gregor-y]

free publicity...

Serious car makes like VW DO things

Little scared doggys without owners cry all the time to get attention...
That's right; it was the Rallye Golf G60 that was winning in the 90s, not the Celica! ;)
Not to mention the dominance of the Polo S1600. And I'll be generous and not even consider the S2000 Polo.

[ToughMac]

Toyota May Return To WRC | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/04/toyota-may-return-to-wrc.html)

Yet another article concerning Toyotas return to the WRC

[gravelman]

Toyota May Return To WRC | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/04/toyota-may-return-to-wrc.html)

Yet another article concerning Toyotas return to the WRC

Hate to be pedantic, but the date of that article is from 2009 :(

[N.O.T]

That's right; it was the Rallye Golf G60 that was winning in the 90s, not the Celica! ;)
Not to mention the dominance of the Polo S1600. And I'll be generous and not even consider the S2000 Polo.

i was about to answer...

then i checked location...

but i will because i am handsome...

Toyota should have never left the rallying scene...after their F1 fiasco they are all talk about returning but nothing...It is normal they got that chicken attitude from F1, it happens when you deal with girls and ladyboys for more than a year.

VW on the other hand put their money where their mouth was...

The lesser cars do not really matter, toyota was one of the first makes that had an s2000 car, same as other girly companies like FIAT...which by the way also returning in the WRC for the last decade or so...

[ToughMac]

Hate to be pedantic, but the date of that article is from 2009 :(

See where your coming from with the 2009 thing. Today is April 09, read through the article and you will see that the news is in line with what has been released with the last week or so ;)

[Gregor-y]

VW on the other hand put their money where their mouth was...
I agree Toyota should have stayed in the WRC and F1 was a waste, but that was not the point. The point was VW has a history of failing to deliver with factory rally efforts. I'm glad to see they look serious this time, but it doesn't negate the past.

[jonkka]

but it doesn't negate the past.

And past doesn't justify present. Toyota isn't in WRC, which sadly means they are only a has-been.

[A FONDO]

Does Toyota have a real factory sport branch (department)?

[Gregor-y]

There's TRD, which hasn't had much to do for the last ten years or so since there aren't any particularly performance oriented Toyotas save the upcoming 86 thing.

[rallyfiend]

TMG in Cologne.

By all reports a pretty amazing place. Started life as home of WRC (TTE), then F1, and now Le Mans and other projects.

[Rallyper]

Toyota - the brand for old men over 70 yrs of age. :p

As long as they don´t compete in the real motorsport - rallying! :cool:

[gravelman]

See where your coming from with the 2009 thing. Today is April 09, read through the article and you will see that the news is in line with what has been released with the last week or so ;)

Ah the reference to the Super 2000 thing threw me aswell, thanks

[Maxi]

Here is a video of a Toyota 86 rally car.

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_vid.htm?00000115!

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

Isn't the AJRC primarily tarmac events? I'm not familiar with the championship.

[ToughMac]

Looks like Toyota are starting to take this rally car thing seriously.

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/pdf/seniortest%20engineer%20rally%20car%20development% 20march%202012.pdf

[rv65]

Toyota is also looking for a suspension design engineer or a senior suspension design engineer. One of the requirements said Le Mans and/or Rally experience, so they are looking for engineers that could do a rally car suspension or one for a Le Mans car.

[Red bull]

ANOTHER HOPE FOR TOYOTA COME BACK MaxRally | News | Toyoda falls for his Toyota (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/toyoda_falls_for_his_toyota/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

ANOTHER HOPE FOR TOYOTA COME BACK MaxRally | News | Toyoda falls for his Toyota (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/toyoda_falls_for_his_toyota/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Awesome but, they expect to have the yaris up and running by the end of the year? Crazy. If mni can get their **** together, we could have five manu's next season. DOPE.

[Sulland]

I want the 86 GT as their new rally car. It looks good, the Yaris does not.

[mm1]

I think the 86 has the potential to become the modern mkII Escort.

[Red bull]

Toyota launching TMG performance sub-brand | Car Advice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/177944/toyota-launching-tmg-performance-sub-brand/)

[AndyRAC]

Toyota need to concentrate on beating Audi, then go Rallying...

[EightGear]

They should do both.

[AndyRAC]

They should do both.

Hmm, possibly. But if they want to beat Audi, they have to be fully committed, no half measures, with the diversion of a WRC effort.

[Franky]

Hmm, possibly. But if they want to beat Audi, they have to be fully committed, no half measures, with the diversion of a WRC effort.

You are talking about Toyota, not Ford....

[pantealex]

Hmm, possibly. But if they want to beat Audi, they have to be fully committed, no half measures, with the diversion of a WRC effort.
Audi is doing DTM alko and tehty still beat Toyota.
So it is possible to do 2 series Same time succesfully.

[AndyRAC]

Audi is doing DTM alko and tehty still beat Toyota.
So it is possible to do 2 series Same time succesfully.

Yes, but we're not talking about anybody - Audi are the only team who could do this. They're the best outfit in Motorsport.

[janvanvurpa]

I think the 86 has the potential to become the modern mkII Escort.

We all said that about the original, the real AE86. We said "Oh boy, they'll sell millions of them and they'll cost pennies to pick one up and with that virtual copy of a flippin' Cossie BDA, power will be just a few dollars away---and it starts and runs like a gawddam Japanses car---every time!"

And we were wrong on every single point.
They didn't sell millions. They became silly expensive with the rise of inter-net and drift ****ing. The motors need every part inside swapped to make acceptable club level power, and then there is in many places no class with 1.6 limit, and worse thinking about rally,


since they never achieved mass popularity there was never the availability on the MASS scale of alternate gears, clutches, diffs, suspension, brakes......and a lot of guys just used and use now Ford Escort parts. Or locally here in Pacific North West, lots of Volvo parts.

The same will occur with the "new' Subuyota Wr86

[Rally Hokkaido]

Getting closer....... Toyota looks at World Rally return in 2014 - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/06/21/toyota-looks-world-rally-return-2014/)

[Bazza2541]

We all said that about the original, the real AE86. We said "Oh boy, they'll sell millions of them and they'll cost pennies to pick one up and with that virtual copy of a flippin' Cossie BDA, power will be just a few dollars away---and it starts and runs like a gawddam Japanses car---every time!"

And we were wrong on every single point.
They didn't sell millions. They became silly expensive with the rise of inter-net and drift ****ing. The motors need every part inside swapped to make acceptable club level power, and then there is in many places no class with 1.6 limit, and worse thinking about rally,


since they never achieved mass popularity there was never the availability on the MASS scale of alternate gears, clutches, diffs, suspension, brakes......and a lot of guys just used and use now Ford Escort parts. Or locally here in Pacific North West, lots of Volvo parts.

The same will occur with the "new' Subuyota Wr86

You obviously have never been to a rally in Ireland, they are everywhere. Making stupid power and are amazing to watch.

[janvanvurpa]

You obviously have never been to a rally in Ireland, they are everywhere. Making stupid power and are amazing to watch.

They?
What they are you referring to? REAL AE86 Corollas with 4 AGE?

The subject was the new Subuyota or Toybaru or whatever the thing is called.

I was responding to the statement that the new thing "will be the next Ford Escort" .

As much as I like the AE86 and have built good parts and put local boys onto the availabily of things like the 4AGE to Ford Type 9 gearbox bellhousing.. nobody can sanely say the rwd Corolla were anywhere near as plentiful on stages for the last 30 years + as the Escorts were. And are.

I doubt the new thing will be as popular as the AE86

[sollitt]

I absolutely agree with you John. The AE86 was hugely over-rated, over priced and under powered. It was horrendously expensive to make them go any good (which was great for my business) and they were a dreadfully boring thing to look at.
The new FT86 Toyo baru love child is a hairdressers car.

[AndyRAC]

The Subaru version, the BRZ GT-300 is a nice car......

[janvanvurpa]

I absolutely agree with you John. The AE86 was hugely over-rated, over priced and under powered. It was horrendously expensive to make them go any good (which was great for my business) and they were a dreadfully boring thing to look at.
The new FT86 Toyo baru love child is a hairdressers car.


Have ya noticed that we agree on a lot of fundamental things?

Except that they can--can mind you---be plenty of fun to watch in the right hands----one needs only set aside some time to watch a fair amount of Finnish F-cup vids...But then again those Finns are crazy and there's not a lot left of the 4AGE save the block and head casting.
I've wondered what led to the surprising popularity in Finland and the only thing I can think is that everything in Finland is horribly expensive so the cost of a 4AGE isn't that much more than say a GM XE or a n.a. YB Ford... Sure they're 2,0 but the F-cup has a progressive weight co-efficient and evidently that seems to work good.

Just across the Eastern Sea in that former powerhouse of rally to the West, in their most popular class (whatever they're calling it now) Grupp H there isn't really a weight per cc and easily half the field in 2300 or 2500cc Volvos, all 8v. AE86 and 4AGE are never seen.

[sollitt]

Yeah, probably an age thing.

There were a number of AE86's used to very good effect here also but these were highly specced cars in the hands of exceptional drivers. They've remained popular here because, in the late 80's, we sold our soul to the Japanese used car industry and it was believed more existed here than in the land of the rising sun. On my dealership circa 1990 we struggled to give them away. Today you'd struggle to find a decent one as they've all either succumbed to the brown cancer or been 'sacked' by flat peaked, four fingered, Travis Pastrana clones.
We sold a lot of bits for them separately but never priced up a complete engine however in the early 90's when we ran 2E powered FWD Starlets in RNZ we were able to buy a complete TRD spec engine directly from the Japs @ $60K. By comparison a BDA was about half the price.

[AMSS]

Have ya noticed that we agree on a lot of fundamental things?

Except that they can--can mind you---be plenty of fun to watch in the right hands----one needs only set aside some time to watch a fair amount of Finnish F-cup vids...But then again those Finns are crazy and there's not a lot left of the 4AGE save the block and head casting.
I've wondered what led to the surprising popularity in Finland and the only thing I can think is that everything in Finland is horribly expensive so the cost of a 4AGE isn't that much more than say a GM XE or a n.a. YB Ford... Sure they're 2,0 but the F-cup has a progressive weight co-efficient and evidently that seems to work good.

Just across the Eastern Sea in that former powerhouse of rally to the West, in their most popular class (whatever they're calling it now) Grupp H there isn't really a weight per cc and easily half the field in 2300 or 2500cc Volvos, all 8v. AE86 and 4AGE are never seen.

Correct me if I`m wrong but isn`t (or wasn`t) the Ae86 a car that was never registrated nor imported to Sweden?
I at least think it is so, and that`s the major reason that the car was never ran in Sweden.
Over here some guys are now even runnning on the Hasselgren built Ae86 engine in the Corollas(revs up to 10500-11000rpm) so they really are quit spectacular to look at and also listen to...

[janvanvurpa]

Correct me if I`m wrong but isn`t (or wasn`t) the Ae86 a car that was never registrated nor imported to Sweden?
I at least think it is so, and that`s the major reason that the car was never ran in Sweden.
Over here some guys are now even runnning on the Hasselgren built Ae86 engine in the Corollas(revs up to 10500-11000rpm) so they really are quit spectacular to look at and also listen to...

Mitsubishi Gallants and Evos, Celica ST165, 185, 205, Focus WRC were just some of the cars that were never imported in to "grannlandet till västerut'' "officially" either. I don't know, I had moved to here in the distant corner of USA by '81 and was busy kicking a lot of butt in my trusty Saab 96 with the mighty V4, and build Opels for the smarter guys here. But there have been plenty of those in the woods..

Were there that many imported to Finland back then?

See somehow, rugged individuals living in a koja somewhere where winter is 7 months of the year, speak a language impossible to speak, and ever more impossible to understand somehow manage to get enough parts and do the mods needed to have fields full of just really quite hot rally cars....so f the Finns can do it, what can't others where maybe there's snow only 2 months or only 2-3 meters, who speak language spoken by more than just a few others?

And yeah they way you guys do it with Toyotas and F+cup in general has become famous even over here in the land of Kenvis Blockstarna and where entries are often over 55% Blue Subaru clones.

[kober]

Toyota to build Yaris RRC - autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/konkretyzuja-sie-plany-toyoty,43470?rss=1)

Quite a few interesting details about TMG-funded Yaris RRC (S2000 1.6T) in the above mentioned article:
- according to TMG's Director of Business Operations Rob Leupen, 1.6T Global Engine has been in testing since January,
- chassis #1 of the S2000-spec car should be ready by Autumn,
- first tests planned for the beginning of 2013,
- homologation planned for mid 2013,
- they're planning to actually make money on the project (how many cars will they need to sell to accomplish that?).
- they chose to built RRC, instead of R4T, because of a lower cost of the program, and more opportunities to sell the car.

Also, it has been said that the decision to enter WRC with a factory team will be made by TMC, not by TMG. Which is rather obvious :) Regardless of a WRC campaign, Yaris RRC will be ready for the 2014 season.

[Bruce D]

My understanding is that a Yaris S2000 2.0 non-turbo car is being built by Toyota Motorsport as we speak and will run in the South African rally championship next year. The team building it is the same team that made the Dakar Nissans and this year's Toyota Hilux Dakar car. Could be a trial run for the chassis?

[Gregor-y]

Is it a sponsored by Toyota's headquarters or a one-off by the South African branch?

[HaCo]

Which Toyota motorsport do you mean? I guess SA?

I have read here on the forum that n/a s2000 cars are no longer homologated.

Trying to make money when building a new car based on old rules doesn't look like a very good business plan to me, so let's hope for an R5 car.

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[A FONDO]

Is it a sponsored by Toyota's headquarters or a one-off by the South African branch?

I suppose it is just a standalone project by the private belgium preparator Overdrive mentioned above.

[Bruce D]

I meant Toyota Motorsport South Africa, which is actually a private team now. Complicated. In South Africa you can still homologate a car to the "old" non-turbo S2000 rules, which is why we have the new shape Polo S2000 car here. It's a just a SA homologation, not an international one. But the chassis will be basically the same so it could be a bit of a development trial linked to Toyota worldwide. Not the first time things like that have happened. The Toyota Corolla WRC cars were based on the model we were running during the early 90s. VW Germany are paying VW SA to run Hans Weis Jr in our championship this year for possible inclusion in the WRC program. There is a lot more links between the WRC and us in deep dark Africa than you people like to think. ;)

[Maxi]

WRC.com article about Toyota's return in 2014

World Rally Championship - News - Toyota closer to WRC comeback (http://www.wrc.com/news/toyota-closer-to-wrc-comeback/?fid=17023)

[olschl]

WRC.com article about Toyota's return in 2014

World Rally Championship - News - Toyota closer to WRC comeback (http://www.wrc.com/news/toyota-closer-to-wrc-comeback/?fid=17023)

Surely the FIA does have a plan for the WRC, perhaps a grand one, given that multiple manufacturers are rejoining the series. Why would there continue to be manufacturer interest like this if they didn't have confidence that the series would survive?

[stefanvv]

Surely the FIA does have a plan for the WRC, perhaps a grand one, given that multiple manufacturers are rejoining the series. Why would there continue to be manufacturer interest like this if they didn't have confidence that the series would survive?

I hope FIA has one, and lot of people here also, because the last 10 years were big surviving indeed. As for Toyota they are capable of doing this, I just wonder how they'll mix Le Mans with WRC. Wouldn't be too much? I know it is big company but still...

[vkangas]

One thing we always have to remember is that these decisions do not happen overnight and car manufacturers have direct contacts to FIA so they know what is being planned. The WRC's current situation is poor but if it's known behind the curtains that it will change then 1-2 years do not matter. The results in the end do. Toyota has most propably started planning and preliminary design before large public was aware of current WRC 1.6T regulations. Serious WRC programme of serious manufacturer like Toyota/VW/Citroen is always linked with brand strategy etc. so they have to plan it many years ahead to synchronize the timing with new model launch such as Yaris and so on.

[Arganil]

Toyota has most propably started planning and preliminary design before large public was aware of current WRC 1.6T regulations.

Maybe Toyota wasn't aware of new wrc regulations from day 1 (at least it wasn't officialy involved on their discussion like Ford, Citroen or Prodrive), but surely the replacement of 2.0T cars by less developed and expensive 1.6T cars was a huge contribute to get manu interest over the series.

To those following the sport, manus included, the way Todt managed the new regs issue (closing it in a fast and balanced mode) showed a very much improved FIA approach over WRC.

[Barreis]

They should just avoid tuners like Prodrive and M-sport. Clear factory team and that's it.

[rallyfiend]

They should just avoid tuners like Prodrive and M-sport. Clear factory team and that's it.

That's a sure way to kill the sport. The sport needs more than just manufacturers. It needs a base of competitors rather than just rely on the whims of car companies.

[AndyRAC]

Maybe Toyota wasn't aware of new wrc regulations from day 1 (at least it wasn't officialy involved on their discussion like Ford, Citroen or Prodrive), but surely the replacement of 2.0T cars by less developed and expensive 1.6T cars was a huge contribute to get manu interest over the series.

To those following the sport, manus included, the way Todt managed the new regs issue (closing it in a fast and balanced mode) showed a very much improved FIA approach over WRC.

The regs were basically decided before Todt was elected; I think he signed them off, but wasn't happy with them. Max, who didn't really care for the WRC, let Ford & Citroen get their way.

[tommeke_B]

They should just avoid tuners like Prodrive and M-sport. Clear factory team and that's it.
They should avoid you getting on the forum for posts like this...

[Arganil]

The regs were basically decided before Todt was elected; I think he signed them off, but wasn't happy with them. Max, who didn't really care for the WRC, let Ford & Citroen get their way.

Exact. Above all it was urgent to replace old regs in order to wrc survive, and Todt did it. By putting an end to the endless manus discussions he showed he care for the WRC.

That's why I'm confident issues like WRC media promotion or calander arrangement will be sensibly set on. Todt it's someone who understand and cares over the sport heritage.

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[Rally Hokkaido]

On the cover of next issue of Japan's Best Car magazine (goes on sale tomorrow) is a photo of the Yaris RRC with captions that say something like " At last testing will start in October. Vitz WRCar. Toyota returns to WRC"

https://twitter.com/bestcarmagazine/status/228040659657953280/photo/1/large

I will try to find this issue on the weekend.

[janvanvurpa]

On the cover of next issue of Japan's Best Car magazine (goes on sale tomorrow) is a photo of the Yaris RRC with captions that say something like " At last testing will start in October. Vitz WRCar. Toyota returns to WRC"

https://twitter.com/bestcarmagazine/status/228040659657953280/photo/1/large

I will try to find this issue on the weekend.


Is the humor intentional?
Nearly 2 full years since you posted that same magazine was reporting:

8th Aug 10, 14:45 #1 (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/139377-toyota-announces-wrc-plans.html#post829054)

Rally Hokkaido (http://www.motorsportforums.com/members/rally-hokkaido-72600/)
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http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/avatars/Japan.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/members/rally-hokkaido-72600/) Join DateNov 2001LocationObihiro, JapanPosts892

http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/icons/eek.gif Toyota announces WRC plans Here is a link to Best Car magazine in Japan. You can see the cover of their next issue, which is due out on Monday. The headline says something like
"Toyota confirms WRC participation!!"

?????9/10???????????????????????... on Twitpic (http://twitpic.com/2c1wcw)

I will attempt to find a copy, tomorrow.

Reminds me of News reports that would sometimes say (years after he had actually died) "This just in: Generalissimo Franco is still dead"

[HaCo]

Maybe irrelevant, maybe not: http://i.autoblog.com/2012/07/25/is-toyota-working-on-a-lexus-influenced-extreme-yaris/

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[rallyfiend]

Is the humor intentional?
Nearly 2 full years since you posted that same magazine was reporting:


Reminds me of News reports that would sometimes say (years after he had actually died) "This just in: Generalissimo Franco is still dead"

To be fair, the rest of the world was hearing rumours of Toyota's move in to F1 years before they announced it and made public moves.

It does seem to be growing in credibility, and across multiple, usually well informed sources.

The fact that the Toyota boss as good as admitted it not so long ago would allude to that fact that the 'other' giant of world motoring is ploughing headlong towards a return to the WRC.

They don't do things by halves these big boys.

Win it, or bin it....

[Rally Hokkaido]

People who think that the competition department of a car manufacturer has carte blanche to start a WRC programme six months before their car hits the stages is still living in the sixties! Anyone that has worked for a car manufacturer, especially a Japanese one, will understand that two years of planning and possibly another two years of development for a motor sport project is normal procedure. Even then, the bean counters or other factors can still scuttle the project, so an official announcement is only made after the budget to compete in the first season has been secured. Beyond their attention grabbing headlines, Best Car have so far been quite accurate with the news about Toyota's WRC involvement since they first broke it in 2010.

[N.O.T]

The thing is that if Toyota continue like this they will end up like the FIAT joke who have plans in joinning the WRC "next year" since 2000....

[stefanvv]

Toyota joking? Doubtly. I read some article in autosport not long ago aiming to gather the technical staff, probably is cited here somewhere.... I guess they just have to manage to do both WEC & WRC, but shouldn't be much a problem for a big company like them.

[N.O.T]

Lets hope so, the WRC needs a Japanese manufacturer or 2..... or 5.

[Rally Hokkaido]

OK, sorry for the delay in posting this - I bought the August copy of Best Car about 3 weeks ago! I will re-read it (with a dictionary beside me) to double check but here are the main points of what it said about Toyota. The four pages included a pic of a 4cyl. 1.6l engine on a dyno wth caption saying '340ps with 33mm restrictor, 1000hors of test running'. Parts of the article read like an interview with TMG President, Mr Ki no sh ita. There is mention that the first step to a WRC car will be the completion of an R5 Yaris customer car, which will easily be convertible to a 2014-spec WRCar. The R5 car will start testing in October. Homologation is currently scheduled for summer next year and rally debut is slated for 2014 Monte Carlo.

[rv65]

OK, sorry for the delay in posting this - I bought the August copy of Best Car about 3 weeks ago! I will re-read it (with a dictionary beside me) to double check but here are the main points of what it said about Toyota. The four pages included a pic of a 4cyl. 1.6l engine on a dyno wth caption saying '340ps with 33mm restrictor, 1000hors of test running'. Parts of the article read like an interview with TMG President, Mr Ki no sh ita. There is mention that the first step to a WRC car will be the completion of an R5 Yaris customer car, which will easily be convertible to a 2014-spec WRCar. The R5 car will start testing in October. Homologation is currently scheduled for summer next year and rally debut is slated for 2014 Monte Carlo.

I think you mean RRC, as Toyota is planning a Yaris RRC and then a WRC.

[cali]

I think you mean RRC, as Toyota is planning a Yaris RRC and then a WRC.
There's no RRC class, R5 class for future rally cars.

[Mirek]

He means S2000 1.6T which under current rules is same homologation as the WRC and therefore must be homologated together with WRC.

[cali]

He means S2000 1.6T which under current rules is same homologation as the WRC and therefore must be homologated together with WRC.
Yes Mirek, I understand that, but like you mentioned in another thread that RRC as a category doesn't exist. It is just a name that Ford gave their Fiesta S2000 1.6T project.
But I also understand that S2000, S2000 1.6T, RRC, Super Production etc is hard to follow.
But R5 is supposed to be the next "real deal", right? At least I wish it could save the national classes.

[kober]

How would it even be possible to "easily convert" an R5 to a WRC? R5s are not S2000-based ...

[Mirek]

But R5 is supposed to be the next "real deal", right? At least I wish it could save the national classes.

As far as I understand the R5 is not intended to play some significant role in WRC events. WRC cars will stay and together with them probably also the S2000 1.6T (unless they change the regulations to allow WRC being build also from the R5 - I don't say it's impossible). So the S2000, S2000 1.6T and the R5 will a least for some time co-exist in the regional/national championships.

[OldF]

There's no RRC class, R5 class for future rally cars.

That’s true. There’s no such class as RRC or Super Production. The class for these cars is class 2, (S2000-Rally: 1.6T engine with a 30mm restrictor, S2000-Rally: 2.0 NA engine and group R4 , N4 with an enhanced suspension.)

[OldF]

How would it even be possible to "easily convert" an R5 to a WRC? R5s are not S2000-based ...

I would said the R5 is a lot based on S2000 as the current WRC cars are, exept for engine regulations and transmission regulatios (6 gear gearbox for S2000 and WRC compared to 5 gear grearbox for R5). I believe it could be possible.

The mesurments of the body shell is the same for a R5, WRC and S2000 car (and a RRC car, class 2 car). If the attachments points are the same for suspension, engine, gearbox etc. I belive it wouldn’t be so difficult to replace the parts from a R5 to WRC specifiction parts.

[kober]

Yeah, but if you replace every single attachable piece of the car, leaving only the shell, it's not that far from building from a scratch - all those parts would need to be separately developed. But yes, there's a potential for some saving for the manufacturer.

[Hartusvuori]

I would said the R5 is a lot based on S2000 as the current WRC cars are, exept for engine regulations and transmission regulatios (6 gear gearbox for S2000 and WRC compared to 5 gear grearbox for R5). I believe it could be possible.

Similar is been done this year from WRC to RRC - as it've planned in the regulations. I don't know the details, but these are the same (http://rallyphotos.kuvat.fi/kuvat/NORF2012/IMG_5527.JPG) chassis (http://rallyphotos.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Rallye+Deutschland+2012/IMG_9429.JPG).

[Mirek]

From WRC to RRC it's easy. It is same car. Only several parts are different.

[Sulland]

Cool car, and something is happenening

Toyota Yaris Hybrid-R gets detailed (http://www.worldcarfans.com/113082661962/toyota-yaris-hybrid-r-gets-detailed)

just remove the electroengines and start testing!

[wim555]

hm someone's looking for an experienced WRC development engineer :)

apparently i cannot post links (yet), check job opportunities at toyota-motorsport.com

[makinen_fan]

Seems Toyota is looking for s Senior Development Engineer with Excellent up-to-date technical knowledge especially regarding current WRC cars as well as relevant experience in a rally environment
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/(Senior)%20Development%20Engineer%20-%20Rally%20Car%20Project.pdf

Maybe this indicates that the start working actively on a WRC return?

[Fri]

comment from TMG: "The GRE development is with a Super 2000-based chassis. No WRC plans yet."
:(

[makinen_fan]

Where is that coming from?
Anyway S2000 cars as we know them (Fabia, Punto, 207) are dead and replaced by R5, but current WRC cars have chassis based on S2000 car regulations, not R5.

[Rallyper]

One thing only: this document has no date on it. Could be years old?

[dimviii]

One thing only: this document has no date on it. Could be years old?
maybe PGA could join? :p :

[makinen_fan]

One thing only: this document has no date on it. Could be years old?

The date of the document is 15/08/2013

[Rallyper]

maybe PGA could join? :p :

They didnt need a testdriver at that point, for sure, whenever it was. And by now he doesn´t deserve any position in my opinion...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Seems Toyota is looking for s Senior Development Engineer with Excellent up-to-date technical knowledge especially regarding current WRC cars as well as relevant experience in a rally environment
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/(Senior)%20Development%20Engineer%20-%20Rally%20Car%20Project.pdf

Maybe this indicates that the start working actively on a WRC return?

Ahhhhh

[kober]

Toyota Motorsport testet Weltmotor (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/09/16/toyota-motorsport-testet-weltmotor/index.html)

- TMG will test Yaris S2000 with 1.6 turbo engine, which could be the base for their WRC, if Toyota Japan will give a green light,
- GT86 R3 is being prepared.

[HaCo]

Toyota Motorsport testet Weltmotor (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/09/16/toyota-motorsport-testet-weltmotor/index.html)

- TMG will test Yaris S2000 with 1.6 turbo engine, which could be the base for their WRC, if Toyota Japan will give a green light,
- GT86 R3 is being prepared.

GT86 R3 ==> Looking forward to this! :D And of course also Yaris R5!

[Andre Oliveira]

GT86 R3 doesn't sound good, maybe R4.

Yaris S2000? S2000 are no longer homologated, only R5.

[Mirek]

GT86 R3 doesn't sound good, maybe R4.

Yaris S2000? S2000 are no longer homologated, only R5.

Both wrong :)

R4 = 4WD only, GT86 is RWD. It's not possible to convert 2WD to 4WD under R regulations except R5. There are other points. The engine is 2000 ccm NA which is good for R3 but useless for R4. The car weights in stock version 200 kg less than minimum weight for R4 car. You would need to place 200 kg of ballast there, why? Another point is that R4 is going to be banned in the future and production cars will turn back to N4 only.

S2000 is still allowed to be homologated if it is fit with 1.6T engine which is the case of Yaris. All 1.6T WRC cars are homologated as S2000.

[Andre Oliveira]

And weight/windth to R3?

Ups, forgot the S1600T.

[Mirek]

And weight/windth to R3?

R3 2.0 NA have a minimum weight 1080 kg which looks achievable with GT86 to me. There was even one reasonably heavier and still successful R3 car - Honda Civic R3.

[Gregor-y]

It looks like there will be an R3 version of Toyota's GT-86 is announced.
http://www.wrc.com/news/toyota-building-new-wrc-eligible-rally-car/?fid=19348

[AndyRAC]

It needs competition from other RWD cars, what about the Subaru BRZ? And others?? Maybe the FiA have a RWD class planned.... Toyota wouldn't build it if there wasn't a market for it.

[miniwintz]

There wasa R-GT class in the works for RWD cars, but I'm not sure how it turned out...

[Mirek]

R-GT class has been existing for 2 years now but nobody seem to be interested. Since next year there's a new rule that R-GT cars can be homologated by a tuner without a manufacturer approval needed. Anyway R-GT is intended for almost stock GT cars while R3 is for relatively largely tuned touring cars (GT-86 is four seater, otherwise it would not be eligible for R3).

[Andre Oliveira]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1391968_10151833528908952_67699500_n.jpg

[A FONDO]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1391968_10151833528908952_67699500_n.jpg

http://emoticonhq.com/images/ICQ/love.jpg

[AdvEvo]

Toyota got it. From street car to rally car lets hope for normal running cost prizes.

[Gregor-y]

Hope it was built with a lot of suspension travel in mind.

[Mirek]

You can not do miracles within R3 regulations.

[ToughMac]

You can not do miracles within R3 regulations.

Maybe this is a precursor for something in R5, lets hope it is!

[Mirek]

I don't think so, at least not with GT-86. If I'm not mistaken the boxer engine is placed so low that it's impossible to make the car 4WD.

[Gregor-y]

Plus the engine's too far back for Subaru's usual AWD setup with the front driveshafts coming out of the transmission. Changing the spark plugs must be rough.

But for R3 this looks like a neat package if they can make the motor reliable.

[danon]

11 Nov: Toyota returns to WRC? - http://www.jaggybunnet.co.uk/2013/11/11 ... ns-to-wrc/ (http://www.jaggybunnet.co.uk/2013/11/11-nov-toyota-returns-to-wrc/)

http://www.jaggybunnet.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ToyotaRally005-300x200.jpg