EKI'S HEROES IN ACTION:Afghan medical mission ends in death for 10

[markabilly]

as to be expected from the true followers of the true faith of prophet pedo, some Taliban slaughtered ten unarmed medical aid workers (including one female doctor), cause they were carrying bibles and "spy gadgets"----probably phones


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9210696


So much for limited warfare :rolleyes:

[Eki]

And how is total warfare going to help?

[markabilly]

And how is total warfare going to help?
as with japan and germany, the shot stopped.

as with iraq and iran, and afganistan, it continues on and on.....

you fight a war only one way: kill the enemy until they are truly subdued or all dead, without mercy, where ever found, esp these types.

Or do not go, do not go at all.

[Eki]

as with japan and germany, the shot stopped.

as with iraq and iran, and afganistan, it continues on and on.....

you fight a war only one way: kill the enemy until they are truly subdued or all dead, without mercy, where ever found, esp these types.

Or do not go, do not go at all.
What about if you don't find them? Like you haven't found Osama Bin Laden. I'm sure that when the Americans leave Afghanistan, there will still be Afghans. And when the Americans leave Iraq, there will still be Iraqis.

[Eki]

as with japan and germany, the shot stopped.


It could also stop before hundreds of thousands are dead.

Total warfare is as stupid as the World Sauna Championship, where the competitors fight until one is dead and the other one is hospitalized:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10904691

[Saint Devote]

I just wonder why these people went there? They know by now how risky it is and how dangerous.

Were they missionaries too - I suspect so, otherwise why would any sane person be carrying Christian religious items?

Muslims know that Christianity is an evangelical religion - as is Islam - and in ALL Muslin countries trying to convert away from the faith is viewed as a crime.

In my country Israel, you WILL be thrown out if you visit and are caught evangelizing.

As a non-Christian it upsets me a great deal if someone tries to destoy my people - and that is what evangelizing does.

So while I disagree with the killing of these people - I do not believe that they were NOT missionaries as well.

[Eki]

I just wonder why these people went there? They know by now how risky it is and how dangerous.

Were they missionaries too - I suspect so, otherwise why would any sane person be carrying Christian religious items?

Muslims know that Christianity is an evangelical religion - as is Islam - and in ALL Muslin countries trying to convert away from the faith is viewed as a crime.

In my country Israel, you WILL be thrown out if you visit and are caught evangelizing.

As a non-Christian it upsets me a great deal if someone tries to destoy my people - and that is what evangelizing does.

So while I disagree with the killing of these people - I do not believe that they were NOT missionaries as well.
Good point. Some people say that Muslims hate the Western ways of living and try to destroy it, yet it's the Mormons and the Jehovan Witnesses who go from door to door trying to convert people here in Finland, not the Muslims.

[anthonyvop]

Good point. Some people say that Muslims hate the Western ways of living and try to destroy it, yet it's the Mormons and the Jehovan Witnesses who go from door to door trying to convert people here in Finland, not the Muslims.

But Mormons and Jehovah witnesses don't go around blowing up women and Children who aren't muslim.
Please refrain from citing some single yahoo who threw a pipe bomb at an abortion clinic.
I am talking large, organized and recognized groups supporting terrorist actions. Even in the US the major islamic groups are loathe to condemn islamo-fascism.

[Hondo]

I remain amazed at the sheer stupidity of any individual be they missionary, medical charity, media reporter, writer, or merely a wanderer passing through being or working in a country that despises the culture from which they came. They seem to think they have a right by virtue of sympathy and should be allowed to operate with impunity based upon the nobility of their deeds. Time after time they fail to understand that the other side doesn't see it that way.

Afghanistan has always been historically consistent. 1- Ultimately the Afghans will band together, against any outsider, regardless of whatever business the outsiders may be engaged in, and 2- As soon as the outsiders are vanquished, the Afghans will happily return to fighting each other, again.

Those people were in a place they were not wanted, doing things that were not requested and now they are dead. They have changed nothing and the sun will still come up tomorrow. What a ridiculous waste.

[Tomi]

But Mormons and Jehovah witnesses don't go around blowing up women and Children who aren't muslim.

Maybe not, but they come and disturb ordinary people anyway, people who want have something to do with those beggars, knows where to find them.

[ShiftingGears]

I remain amazed at the sheer stupidity of any individual be they missionary, medical charity, media reporter, writer, or merely a wanderer passing through being or working in a country that despises the culture from which they came. They seem to think they have a right by virtue of sympathy and should be allowed to operate with impunity based upon the nobility of their deeds. Time after time they fail to understand that the other side doesn't see it that way.

Afghanistan has always been historically consistent. 1- Ultimately the Afghans will band together, against any outsider, regardless of whatever business the outsiders may be engaged in, and 2- As soon as the outsiders are vanquished, the Afghans will happily return to fighting each other, again.

Those people were in a place they were not wanted, doing things that were not requested and now they are dead. They have changed nothing and the sun will still come up tomorrow. What a ridiculous waste.

Agreed.

[Camelopard]

News agencies in Australia are saying that this was a robbery.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1321982/Foreign-medics-killed-in-Afghanistan


"They were part of a 12-member team of volunteer medics returning from a medical camp in neighbouring Nuristan province, said Dirk Frans, director of the Kabul-based International Assistance Mission (IAM). Badakhshan provincial police chief Aqa Noor Kintoz said the group had been lined up and shot in dense forest, according to the testimony of one of the Afghan survivors.
"They were confronted by a group of armed men who lined them up and shot them. Their money and belongings were all stolen," said Kintoz.
Despite the Taliban claim, Frans said police had told him that robbery was the likely motive for the killings."

[Eki]

News agencies in Australia are saying that this was a robbery.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1321982/Foreign-medics-killed-in-Afghanistan


"They were part of a 12-member team of volunteer medics returning from a medical camp in neighbouring Nuristan province, said Dirk Frans, director of the Kabul-based International Assistance Mission (IAM). Badakhshan provincial police chief Aqa Noor Kintoz said the group had been lined up and shot in dense forest, according to the testimony of one of the Afghan survivors.
"They were confronted by a group of armed men who lined them up and shot them. Their money and belongings were all stolen," said Kintoz.
Despite the Taliban claim, Frans said police had told him that robbery was the likely motive for the killings."
Or the robbery was a secondary byproduct and not the main motive. Plain robbers could have left them alive, or kept them for ransom.

[markabilly]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/8/7/1281186958578/Karen-Woo-the-British-doc-006.jpg

[markabilly]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/07/article-1301016-0AB7F37E000005DC-973_306x451.jpg

[markabilly]

shame, you guys, esp you saint.
Israel got issues trying to keep the population as pure jew as possible, huh, Saint?????

Student becomes the master

Such crap from some of you losers makes me even more appreciative of the great USA

[markabilly]

http://www.facebook.com/people/Karen-Woo/693455357

[markabilly]

sounds like her be a real missionary mormon type, door banger, if you read her blog:

explorer kitten Kabul, Afghanistan I'm a medical doctor, trained as a surgeon and want to share my thoughts on being in afghanistan whilst looking at the current shape and the future of healthcare in afghanistan. Explorer Kitten also wants to share her thoughts on the country, her adventures and what it's like to be
http://www.explorerkitteninafghanistan.blogspot.com/



In deference to the Kabul Conference, the airport and roads surrounding are completely closed, so many important people arriving, amongst them Hilary Clinton, who, when I saw her on the TV, looked ever so much like a man in drag. PM had horrified me with stories that she was partial to a little reverse action, especially with young men, and I just couldn't get those images out of my head when watching her despite the fact that what she was saying was reasonable and not totally outlandish.



My room looks tidy for once but still I can't find anything and run around in frustration trying to find things that she may or not have whisked away to be laundered or may or may not have secreted in a draw or cupboard. It was probably a step too far when I discovered that she'd emptied my grab bag and put everything away in various places - the equivalent of someone going through your handbag, into your purse, sorting your coins and putting your stash of rainy day condoms away safely in your sock draw, finding your vibrator and kindly cleaning it for you. Here they have a different sense of privacy - ie none. Behind closed doors, everything is fair game.

[markabilly]

in her blog, she talks of getting a gown...kittens...shopping.....
and her turtle she had in afganistan, jaguar, which is pictured below---taken a few days before her murder:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WhHYnwY6hZc/TCL3hsSPovI/AAAAAAAAANA/tBbmfRi4Hx8/s1600/Karen+

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WhHYnwY6hZc/TCL3hsSPovI/AAAAAAAAANA/tBbmfRi4Hx8/s320/Karen+with+Tortoise+IMG_0771.jpg

[markabilly]

beneath the photo above was this:



One afternoon I spied the tortoise in the garden and in my general enthusiasm whipped him up from the grass and brought him inside to have his picture taken. I had all but performed an alien abduction on him I thought as I pictured how it must feel to have big, pink hands descend upon you and suddenly levitate you effortlessly, transporting you up in to the sky. A large, gangly, alien being with no shell peering at you in the face and talking in strange tongues. A strange habitat filled with garish colours and patterns and machines with lights on that beep and whirr, some bright, bright flashes of light (no pain) and then suddenly, flying through the air again and landing, as if all was a dream, back on the grass, "White light, hazy memory. Roswell..., area 51... then nothing". Alien anal probe - my arse - that tortoise will have sold his story to the National Enquirer quicker than Elvis can down a burger on the toilet whilst flying a jumbo jet to the moon!

[markabilly]

from the Saint, hisself.....



As a non-Christian it upsets me a great deal if someone tries to destoy my people - and that is what evangelizing does.



yep, giving children medical aid is even more effective.....

keep the race pure dude!!!!!

same for all those backass moslem countries....bless be the prophet of hatred

and i love the so called local police, too scared to give credit to the taliban, but they took it anyway

[markabilly]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_WhHYnwY6hZc/TCL3hsSPovI/AAAAAAAAANA/tBbmfRi4Hx8/s1600/Karen+with+Tortoise+IMG_0771.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

shame, you guys, esp you saint.
Israel got issues trying to keep the population as pure jew as possible, huh, Saint?????

Student becomes the master

Such crap from some of you "losers" makes me even more appreciative of the great USA


And every scrap of crap from you loser makes me appreciate that there's only so many mentally "challenged" types like you running loose destroying my Country.


(odd how people use the word "loser" when in my experience, those who do usually are cliched stereotype of the coach-potato grunt/slob TV fan 'Merikun---their use a sort of projection or some perverted confession of their accomplishments so they scream and rant that OTHERS must be---so that the obviousness of their pitiful existence is diverted---the ol' Weapons of Mass Distraction. Works on them, so they try it on everybody else.)

Stormfront much?

[markabilly]

She was obviously distressed, crying silently: her trip, her chance to get out, was now in jeopardy but not only this, she would now lose her job teaching boys - apparently a pregnant women is not acceptable in this role. I didn't know what to say. Termination of pregnancy is illegal here. This poor woman did not want another child but she would have no choice. I felt bad for her, bad that both she and I were hoping that for her sake that the pregnancy, currently in it's early stages, wouldn't remain and she would be free.


more from her blog, under the title of sad **** noodles

[markabilly]

Stormfront much?
Nah, unlike you, I already gave my half a pound of flesh to permit you to continue to preach or not preach, bow or not bow, on behalf of whatever loser prophet you chose, without going to jail, getting tossed out of the country, or stoned to death.

And certainly do not implicitly or explicitly condone the death of a young doctor who was brave enough to try to make a difference, as her being either just a stupid idiot who should have known better, or just a stupid christain missionary door banger who should have known better :rolleyes:

Because of people like her, the world is a better place

And because of people like some of you, it is not.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I just wonder why these people went there? They know by now how risky it is and how dangerous.

Were they missionaries too - I suspect so, otherwise why would any sane person be carrying Christian religious items?

Muslims know that Christianity is an evangelical religion - as is Islam - and in ALL Muslin countries trying to convert away from the faith is viewed as a crime.

In my country Israel, you WILL be thrown out if you visit and are caught evangelizing.

As a non-Christian it upsets me a great deal if someone tries to destoy my people - and that is what evangelizing does.

So while I disagree with the killing of these people - I do not believe that they were NOT missionaries as well.

The difference is, Isreali's and Americans don't shoot evangelicals for Islam or other groups....The Taliban would shoot and kill someone just based on them being Christian...(no Bible's necessary, just an American or Canadian passport for example)

There is a difference...

[janvanvurpa]

Nah, unlike you, I already gave my half a pound of flesh to permit you to continue to preach or not preach, bow or not bow, on behalf of whatever loser prophet you chose, without going to jail, getting tossed out of the country, or stoned to death.



Really? Explain exactly.
Step by step how whateever you did has led to anything useful, or measurable or anything at all, except spread hate.

This slaughter of these poor misguided fools, as admirable as is their wish to do good---in their own way might be---- is insane.


But:
Who in the American military which supposedly is in control allowed these fools----well intentioned sort of---to enter the country? Who allowed them to roam freely when its clear and well known that the US and NATO forces control only some parts of some cities and towns and SOME roadways---for the time they drive by...

What sort of insane policy decisions lets what appears to be starry eyed innocents loose in a War Zone?

Terrible, but what would you expect?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I agree with you Jan. Anyone dopey enough to go over there is on their own if they are not inside a US Military mission, and I would think the military wouldn't be there with an evangelical group. The fact they didn't strongly suggest these people get on the next plane out of there and didn't all but force them on it says something.

I feel bad they got killed, but this is like walking out into a busy highway without looking. Suicide.....

[janvanvurpa]

I agree with you Jan. Anyone dopey enough to go over there is on their own if they are not inside a US Military mission, and I would think the military wouldn't be there with an evangelical group. The fact they didn't strongly suggest these people get on the next plane out of there and didn't all but force them on it says something.

I feel bad they got killed, but this is like walking out into a busy highway without looking. Suicide.....

Worse, drivers probably don't really WANT to smash into fools unaware of where they are if nothing else cause of the damage and horror drivers themselves would experience----these baddies are looking to kill, seems they want to kill and any excuse will do..
They're Christians...

When there's no Christians convenient then "they're Baluchis" or "they're Kirghiz" or whatever...

My point was what sort of insanity is afoot inside the US Military and political missions---they let these people go die, what other fundamental blunders are they (presumably) routinely making?

[airshifter]

I can't help but wonder how quickly Markabilly would rejoice had it been a group of Muslim aid workers trying to do good deeds within a mostly Christian war zone. Very sad really.

As for access and military control, it's very rare for anyone to deny access when it is with the intent of humanitarian aid. When the US went into Iraq aid from Kuwait was pouring across the border to the extent it was causing major security issues.

[anthonyvop]

I can't help but wonder how quickly Markabilly would rejoice had it been a group of Muslim aid workers trying to do good deeds within a mostly Christian war zone. Very sad really.


Exactly where is there a Christian War zone on this planet?

[markabilly]

I can't help but wonder how quickly Markabilly would rejoice had it been a group of Muslim aid workers trying to do good deeds within a mostly Christian war zone. Very sad really.

.
Actually I would not be rejoicing, just the opposite, and if you and the rest of you were smart enough to read the articles (that is a really BIG JUMP for you guys)--you would note that two Afghan moslems were murdered with the group because they were helping the three doctors....the driver they spared because he recited enough verses and claimed to be a mere driver :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

Really? Explain exactly.
Step by step how whateever you did has led to anything useful, or measurable or anything at all, except spread hate.

?
Read up on a number of old posts around here :rolleyes:

My money says far more good than you ever will :rolleyes:

as for her and the rest of each and every one of them, I admire them greatly for standing up trying to do right and help people, and not sit in the arm chair whinging and whining :up:

[markabilly]

I agree with you Jan. Anyone dopey enough to go over there is on their own but this is like walking out into a busy highway without looking. Suicide.....


Worse, drivers probably don't really WANT to smash into fools ?
"poor misguided fools" insane, dopey......

I call that having the courage to act on their convictions.
I wish i had that kind of courage.

What an insult to people like this for any of you to make such comments and comparsions......

[markabilly]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-death-of-my-friend-karen-2046693.html



Dr Woo's passion and compassion for the people of Afghanistan were first ignited during a trip to Kabul to visit a friend in 2008. She returned determined to do something. "The things that I saw made me, as a doctor, want to bring back the human stories both good and bad. The access that a doctor or healthcare professional has to a community is unlike that available to a journalist; the trust and conversations are different," she wrote on her blog about a trip she made in 2009.

Dr Woo was far more than just an aid worker. She grew up in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, the daughter of a Chinese father and English mother. She went to Barclay Secondary School in Stevenage, where her family still lives. Yesterday her cousin, Stella Swain, said her interests initially were dancing and acting: after she left school she went to London to be an actress before retraining as a doctor.
"She was a very special person," Ms Swain said. "This is the fourth time she's been out to Afghanistan. Before she left she was putting aid together. She wanted to help the women out there, particularly in childbirth."
Dr Woo's personal blog, which she wrote from Kabul, described life in the city from security clampdowns to the difficulties of having a ballgown made. Her last entry, dated 20 July, also spoke about the forthcoming, ill-fated, trip. "We found out that there is still a lot of snow on the pass and the horses won't be able to go all the way over... so now, when their little hooves can go no further, we'll be lugging it over the pass ourselves. The image of a straggly band of people labouring through the snow at 16,000 feet comes to mind but seems so very remote and painless as I sit at my desk in Kabul – I know it's going to hurt but I just can't imagine it right now."

She was keen not to be seen to be self-sacrificing. What her work gave her, she said, was a sense of purpose. "It is not just one way, what we are doing is hopefully helping people. It's a great bonus that it is also so interesting."



Dr Woo and her colleagues had been asked by elders in Nuristan for medical aid. It was, she maintained, a duty for them to go. "We know there may be problems, but these people need help and it seems right that we should try to give that help... we are not involved in politics: we are medics."



world is a better place because there are a few people like this with real courage, pity there are not more.

[markabilly]

another great article for those not to blind to see from having their head stuck up their somewhere....


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/07/karen-woo-selfless-doctor-gunned-down



Comments to the article:



Karen was my friend. We studied A levels together and remained as friends while she was at UCL doing med.
I've read some ghastly comments on other news sites suggesting she was some kind of religious bible thumper. She was nothing of that sort. She was very cheeky and fun to be around, with an adventurous streak to her personality.
Please dont fault her for wanting to help. No one deserves to go like this
.





I met Karen just once at a party - friend of a friend - and was inspired by the way she so passionately talked about her dedication to helping others in extreme situations in extreme parts of the world.
She gave up a wealthy lifestyle and background to provide essential aid to people facing extreme suffering in one of the poorest, remotest parts of Afghanistan, and on top of that was a beautiful, graceful, talented woman.
I cannot begin to imagine the trauma she and the rest of her team went through, and the pain her close friends and family now feel, but from meeting her that one time my soul achingly mourns the inhumanity and injustice of their murderers, that the world has lost a selfless, dedicated achiever, and that my friend has lost her friend.



Has anyone of you, ever taken such risks for an unselfish desire to help others???

[Bob Riebe]

It could also stop before hundreds of thousands are dead.

YOUR proof?

[Eki]

YOUR proof?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War


Peace negotiations

Although the Finns attempted to re-open negotiations with Moscow by every means during the war, the Soviets did not respond. In early January, Finnish communist and feminist playwright Hella Wuolijoki contacted the Finnish government. She offered to contact Moscow through the Soviet Union's ambassador to Sweden, Alexandra Kollontai. Wuolijoki departed for Stockholm and met Kollontai secretly at a hotel. Soon Molotov decided to extend recognition to the Ryti–Tanner government as the legal government of Finland and put an end to the puppet Terijoki Government of Kuusinen that the Soviets had set up.[46]
By mid-February, it became clear that the Finnish forces were rapidly approaching exhaustion. For the Soviets, casualties were high, the situation was a source of political embarrassment of the Soviet regime, and there was a risk of Franco-British intervention. Furthermore, with the spring thaw approaching, the Soviet forces risked becoming bogged down in the forests. The Finnish foreign minister Väinö Tanner arrived in Stockholm on 12 February and negotiated the peace terms with the Soviets through the Swedes. German representatives, not aware that the negotiations were underway, suggested on 17 February that Finland negotiate with the Soviet Union.[47]
Both Germany and Sweden were keen to see an end to the Winter War. The Germans feared losing iron ore fields in northern Sweden and threatened to attack at once if the Swedes granted the Allied forces right of passage. The Germans even had a theoretical invasion plan called the Studie Nord against Scandinavian countries, which later became the full-blown Operation Weserübung.[1]:261 As the Finnish Cabinet hesitated in the face of the harsh Soviet conditions, Sweden's King Gustav V made a public statement on 19 February in which he confirmed having declined Finnish pleas for support from Swedish troops. On 25 February, the Soviet peace terms were spelled out in detail. On 29 February, the Finnish government accepted the Soviet terms in principle and was willing to enter into negotiations.[48]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War

Armistice and aftermath


Mannerheim had repeatedly reminded the Germans that in case their troops in Estonia retreated, Finland would be forced to make peace even on extremely unfavourable terms.[55] The territory of Estonia would have provided the Soviet army with a favourable base for amphibious invasions and air attacks against Finland's capital, Helsinki, and other strategic targets in Finland, and would have strangled Finnish access to the sea. The initial German reaction to Finland's announcement of ambitions for a separate peace was limited to only verbal opposition. However, the Germans arrested hundreds of sailors on Finnish merchant ships in Germany, Denmark and Norway.
President Ryti resigned, paving the way for a separate peace, and Finland's military leader and national hero, Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, was extraordinarily appointed president by the parliament, accepting responsibility for ending the war.
On 4 September, the cease-fire ended military actions on the Finnish side. The Soviet Union ended hostilities exactly 24 hours after the Finns. An armistice between the Soviet Union and Finland was signed in Moscow on 19 September. Finland had to make many concessions: the Soviet Union regained the borders of 1940, with the addition of the Petsamo area (now Pechengsky District, Russia); the Porkkala peninsula (adjacent to Helsinki) was leased to the USSR as a naval base for fifty years and transit rights were granted; Finland's army was to be demobilized with haste, and Finland was required to expel all German troops from its territory within 14 days. As the Germans did not leave Finland in time for the given deadline, the Finns fought their former allies in the Lapland War. Finland was also to clear the minefields in Karelia (including East Karelia) and in the Gulf of Finland. Retreating German forces had also mined northern Finland heavily. The demining was a long operation, especially in the sea areas, lasting until 1952. 100 Finnish army personnel were killed and over 200 wounded during this process, most of them in Lapland.
Nevertheless, in contrast to the rest of the Eastern front countries, where the war was fought to the end, a Soviet occupation of Finland did not occur and the country retained sovereignty. Neither did Communists rise to power as they had in the Eastern Bloc countries. A policy called the Paasikivi–Kekkonen line formed the basis of Finnish foreign policy towards the Soviet Union until its dissolution in 1991.

[anthonyvop]

The queen of Wikipedia strikes again....when will he ever learn?

[airshifter]

Actually I would not be rejoicing, just the opposite, and if you and the rest of you were smart enough to read the articles (that is a really BIG JUMP for you guys)--you would note that two Afghan moslems were murdered with the group because they were helping the three doctors....the driver they spared because he recited enough verses and claimed to be a mere driver :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Don't backpeddle now. Your opening post makes it clear you expect all Muslims to do evil things. Forget about those helping in humanitarian missions, forget about those serving various military forces fighting the Taliban. And really the fact that Muslims were murdered kind of throws the entire "Christian killers" thing out the window now doesn't it?

See some of us not only read the article, but comprehended it as well.

As to be expected from someone speaking out of both sides of their mouth. I won't associate you with any religion though, as I haven't found one that preaches blind hate.

[Mark in Oshawa]

"poor misguided fools" insane, dopey......

I call that having the courage to act on their convictions.
I wish i had that kind of courage.

What an insult to people like this for any of you to make such comments and comparsions......

No...I am calling them dopey for while they have great convictions, only an idiot walks into a Muslim nation and starts bible thumping.

It is not conviction, it is suicide, and you KNOW it...

and how dare I? I just did...

Sorry buddy, I don't care if you believe in the church, don't or whatever. I know a lot of evangelicals who wouldn't do something so brazen and expect to not pay the ultimate price.

Suicide is a stupid thing, and that's what it was...whether they saw it that way or not I really don't care. They are still dead....

We are over there to educate them towards democracy and a value system that doesn't involve being religious zealots, not to convert them.

[Bob Riebe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War

Armistice and aftermath
This has what to do with the Germans, much less the Japanese fighting the allies?

The Battle of the Bulge occurred because they wanted peace so badly?

Give me proof that is relative to the topic.

You are trying to sell this as if it was a Disney movie.

[Camelopard]

No...I am calling them dopey for while they have great convictions, only an idiot walks into a Muslim nation and starts bible thumping.

It is not conviction, it is suicide, and you KNOW it...

and how dare I? I just did...

Sorry buddy, I don't care if you believe in the church, don't or whatever. I know a lot of evangelicals who wouldn't do something so brazen and expect to not pay the ultimate price.

Suicide is a stupid thing, and that's what it was...whether they saw it that way or not I really don't care. They are still dead....

We are over there to educate them towards democracy and a value system that doesn't involve being religious zealots, not to convert them.

I have a real issue with this "We". what exactly have "you" been doing?

This is a great waste of life and unlike you I don't think they were in Afghanistan to convert, have you bothered to read anything about those killed, rather than getting all your opinions from 'talk radio'?

Tom Little had been going to Afghanistan for over 30 years, he was there under the Taliban and the Soviets. Don't you think if he had been trying to convert muslims that he would have been disposed long before now?

Dan Terry had been living in Afghanistan on and off since 1971. (ditto, see comment above)

One of those killed, Glen Lapp was a mennonite, as far as I know mennonites do not go around trying to convert people to christianity.

They were killed doing what they thought was best for the world and mankind and you have the hide to belittle their deaths from behind the security of a computer screen!!!!!!!


Back to your comment on 'democracy' which you seem to think is the be all and end all of everything. Do you honestly believe that the average Afghani gives a toss about 'democracy'? I would sugest that like most people in the 'third world', they are more interested in just surviving and could not care less that you feel that they need to have a 'value system'.


Sorry I've been side tracked, these unfortunate people were in the wrong spot at the wrong time, they may have been killed for supposedly spreading christianity, which would have been an easy excuse, but personally I feel if they had been a group of trekkers (which do frequent that area), they would still have been killed.

[Eki]

This has what to do with the Germans, much less the Japanese fighting the allies?

The Battle of the Bulge occurred because they wanted peace so badly?

Give me proof that is relative to the topic.

You are trying to sell this as if it was a Disney movie.
The Japanese and the Germans were never offered a chance for negotiated peace, total surrender was always insisted.

[ShiftingGears]

The Japanese and the Germans were never offered a chance for negotiated peace, total surrender was always insisted.

That's the consequence of losing wars that you start.

If countries don't want to face that possible consequence - they shouldn't start wars.

[markabilly]

Don't backpeddle now. Your opening post makes it clear you expect all Muslims to do evil things. Forget about those helping in humanitarian missions, forget about those serving various military forces fighting the Taliban. And really the fact that Muslims were murdered kind of throws the entire "Christian killers" thing out the window now doesn't it?

See some of us not only read the article, but comprehended it as well.

As to be expected from someone speaking out of both sides of their mouth. I won't associate you with any religion though, as I haven't found one that preaches blind hate.

One that preaches blind hate?

Start with the Moslem religion, from the prophet himself. The extemists, the terrorists are NOT being hypocrites. When they are taking young girls and stoning them to death for adultery, or guys for being gay, (even where the evidence vanishes but some judge says, he has intuition that he is gay)-----well none of that evil is hypocrisy. Old men taking a ten year girl to add to his harrem, is not practicing hypocrisy, but following the footsteps of the great prophet.

So Moslems are not just irrationally murdering non-moslems when they are killing a cartoonist who made a joke or two about the prophet, they are slaughtering and raping their own in the name of Allah, with full support of their religion.

Unlike christainity, no hypocrisy there, and that is why the moslem religion is a dangerous one to play with. Very.

Now I know there are many so called "christain" types who would love to be able to create their own religious state, indeed, burn a few people at the stake for being herectics, adulterers, gay as in the good old days in Spain, but when I look at the new testament for support of such actions, all I see is silly stuff like let the one without sin, cast the first stone, turn the other cheek, self sacrifice examples and so on....duh :rolleyes:

And then Jesus was dopey enough, stupid enough, just plain idiot and should have known better, when he got grabbed up and nailed to a cross, as after all, look at where he was at........Funny, is that I have wondered how many "Christains" have been killed by other "Christains" as herectics for attempting to actually practice the life of Jesus

As to moslems who walk a different path from the extremists, good for them, but they are being hypocrites when it comes to their religion

(and now this, the latest, where a preganent widow was whipped 200 times and then executed, because she might have committed adultery???)

[markabilly]

No...I am calling them dopey for while they have great convictions, only an idiot walks into a Muslim nation and starts bible thumping.

It is not conviction, it is suicide, and you KNOW it...

and how dare I? I just did...

Sorry buddy, I don't care if you believe in the church, don't or whatever. I know a lot of evangelicals who wouldn't do something so brazen and expect to not pay the ultimate price.

Suicide is a stupid thing, and that's what it was...whether they saw it that way or not I really don't care. They are still dead....

We are over there to educate them towards democracy and a value system that doesn't involve being religious zealots, not to convert them.
obviously you have not bothered to read about Dr. Woo, and about her motivation. As to the others, I have not read in detail about them, but as Camelopard says, Dr. Little does not strike me as a bible thumper, but one who saw some people in grave need of medical attention, and rather than turn their back, tried to do the right thing, acting with more courage of their conviction than I have.

People like this make the world a better place

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have a real issue with this "We". what exactly have "you" been doing?

This is a great waste of life and unlike you I don't think they were in Afghanistan to convert, have you bothered to read anything about those killed, rather than getting all your opinions from 'talk radio'?

Tom Little had been going to Afghanistan for over 30 years, he was there under the Taliban and the Soviets. Don't you think if he had been trying to convert muslims that he would have been disposed long before now?

Dan Terry had been living in Afghanistan on and off since 1971. (ditto, see comment above)

One of those killed, Glen Lapp was a mennonite, as far as I know mennonites do not go around trying to convert people to christianity.

They were killed doing what they thought was best for the world and mankind and you have the hide to belittle their deaths from behind the security of a computer screen!!!!!!!


Back to your comment on 'democracy' which you seem to think is the be all and end all of everything. Do you honestly believe that the average Afghani gives a toss about 'democracy'? I would sugest that like most people in the 'third world', they are more interested in just surviving and could not care less that you feel that they need to have a 'value system'.


Sorry I've been side tracked, these unfortunate people were in the wrong spot at the wrong time, they may have been killed for supposedly spreading christianity, which would have been an easy excuse, but personally I feel if they had been a group of trekkers (which do frequent that area), they would still have been killed.

You have a point, I wont deny. They are good people...but they went over there knowing the chances they were taking and they know that being an evangelical Christian in a lawless part of the world where the only thread is that Islam is supreme and people are willing to convert you at gunpoint. They may not have been openly trying to convert anyone. They may have...only they knew and they are not there.

Being a good Christian, they felt they had a duty to go there, and did good things..but again, Explain to me how they are innocent victims in the sense that they didn't see this coming? They knew the risks they were taking. You are asking me to be outraged by their deaths? I am, I find it offensive anyone kills anyone over religion. I don't deny for a second that they meant well. Hell, we all mean well when we think we are helping.

I usually defend missionaries and Christian groups for the good work they try to do, and I don't have a problem with them wanting to help. Just this isn't the place. Afghanistan is in many places more than lawless. One of the greatest tenets radical Islam has used to justify their Jihad against Western Culture is the fear that they tell all Muslims that the Christians are coming to take their faith away. These victims may have been helping the poor and injured and sick, but to the radicals they were there to convert people

Disagree all you like, and You make good points about these men and women and their bravery, but to me, when you break away all the BS, they are still dead, and the radical Islamic loons who would do such a thing are still running around.

I suspect that some of them may have done some attempts at conversion. I have no idea. I mourn their deaths, but for anyone to go over there without full involvement in a Military operation is committing suicide right now.

[Bob Riebe]

The Japanese and the Germans were never offered a chance for negotiated peace, total surrender was always insisted.
Tell how the Germans and Japanese deserved some special consideration for "negotiated" peace to the survivors of those butchered by German and Japanese authorities.

Reminds me of those who hold vigils for murders on death row. Maybe they should hold them on the lawns of the murdered ones survivors. After all by your standards, they are the true evil ones.

[Eki]

Tell how the Germans and Japanese deserved some special consideration for "negotiated" peace to the survivors of those butchered by German and Japanese authorities.

To save perhaps millions of people on all sides by stopping the war and the genocide short.

Now, you tell how mere retaliation deserves millions of more people to die.

Even the "War on Terrorism" has killed more people on all sides than terrorism has.

[markabilly]

You have a point, I wont deny. They are good people...but they went over there knowing the chances they were taking and they know that being an evangelical Christian in a lawless part of the world where the only thread is that Islam is supreme and people are willing to convert you at gunpoint. They may not have been openly trying to convert anyone. They may have...only they knew and they are not there.

Being a good Christian, they felt they had a duty to go there, and did good things..but again, Explain to me how they are innocent victims in the sense that they didn't see this coming? They knew the risks they were taking. You are asking me to be outraged by their deaths? I am, I find it offensive anyone kills anyone over religion. I don't deny for a second that they meant well. Hell, we all mean well when we think we are helping.

I usually defend missionaries and Christian groups for the good work they try to do, and I don't have a problem with them wanting to help. Just this isn't the place. Afghanistan is in many places more than lawless. One of the greatest tenets radical Islam has used to justify their Jihad against Western Culture is the fear that they tell all Muslims that the Christians are coming to take their faith away. These victims may have been helping the poor and injured and sick, but to the radicals they were there to convert people

Disagree all you like, and You make good points about these men and women and their bravery, but to me, when you break away all the BS, they are still dead, and the radical Islamic loons who would do such a thing are still running around.

I suspect that some of them may have done some attempts at conversion. I have no idea. I mourn their deaths, but for anyone to go over there without full involvement in a Military operation is committing suicide right now.
You still do not get it.
This was not a bunch of "christains"....it was doctors, who wanted to provide medical services to people who needed it...and included moslems......you obviously have totally failed to read the articles about these people.

Some ask why, other ask why not....

"Suspect some attempts at conversion..." :rolleyes:

"Suicide"...... so now the victim becomes the one responsible for the crime.

man up to admitting you are wrong.

it would be more than the lack of courage and respect shown by others around here, sitting safe behind their keyboards

[ArrowsFA1]

Exactly where is there a Christian War zone on this planet?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

The zone itself does not have to be Christian for it to be a Christian war zone.

[anthonyvop]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

The zone itself does not have to be Christian for it to be a Christian war zone.


"Yawn"

Anyone want to really try?

[Eki]

"Yawn"

Anyone want to really try?

Can you name a Muslim war zone? Usually the other side are non-Muslims. You could for example say that Israel is a Jewish war zone and India is a Hindu war zone. OK, Somalia is a Muslim war zone. Are there more?

[anthonyvop]

To save perhaps millions of people on all sides by stopping the war and the genocide short.

Now, you tell how mere retaliation deserves millions of more people to die.

Even the "War on Terrorism" has killed more people on all sides than terrorism has.


Well they tried it your way.
After WW1 the Allies negotiated and end to the war with Germany by forcing them to demilitarize, change their government, stop aggression and stop ethnic cleansing.

Your way worked well...didn't it?

[Captain VXR]

Vop - I believe Colombia is majority Christian and for decades, the government has been battling with FARC rebels
Before you say that all commies are athiests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

[Eki]

Well they tried it your way.
After WW1 the Allies negotiated and end to the war with Germany by forcing them to demilitarize, change their government, stop aggression and stop ethnic cleansing.

Your way worked well...didn't it?
How was that different from how WW2 ended? One reason for Hitler's rise to power was the way the allied humiliated Germany in Versailles peace treaty. The terms were about as bad as those after the WW2, except they didn't hang anyone.

[Bob Riebe]

To save perhaps millions of people on all sides by stopping the war and the genocide short.

Now, you tell how mere retaliation deserves millions of more people to die.

Even the "War on Terrorism" has killed more people on all sides than terrorism has.
You eliminate the source of the conflict, you NEVER, unless you want to do it over and over and over and over again, let any seed remain.

It is like weeds in a lawn, you either kill it all, or it comes back.

[anthonyvop]

Vop - I believe Colombia is majority Christian and for decades, the government has been battling with FARC rebels
Before you say that all commies are athiests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

Don't be an Eki and use Wikipedia as a source if you want to be taken seriously.

The FARC leadership are all die-hard atheists. The War has nothing to do with religion.

[anthonyvop]

Can you name a Muslim war zone? Usually the other side are non-Muslims. You could for example say that Israel is a Jewish war zone and India is a Hindu war zone. OK, Somalia is a Muslim war zone. Are there more?


Sudan, Somalia, Kurdistan vs. Iran, Kurdistan vs. Iraq, Kurdistan vs. Turkey, Yemen, Hamas vs. PLO, Lebanon vs themselves. Pakistan vs Muslim extremists, Afghanistan vs Taliban. Various attacks my islamic extremist in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, Algeria, Egypt....ect.

All Muslims fighting Muslims with religion as a main excuse.

[anthonyvop]

How was that different from how WW2 ended? One reason for Hitler's rise to power was the way the allied humiliated Germany in Versailles peace treaty. The terms were about as bad as those after the WW2, except they didn't hang anyone.

Actually you are wrong. West Germany was quickly brought back into the international community. They were quickly rebuilt by the US and other allies and even allowed entrance into NATO by 1955. Of course that was when the West realized that the Soviets were probably worse than the NAZIs.

Germany after WW1 was forced to pay huge reparations, Striped of all but a meager military force and no help was given for reconstruction.

[Eki]

You eliminate the source of the conflict, you NEVER, unless you want to do it over and over and over and over again, let any seed remain.

It is like weeds in a lawn, you either kill it all, or it comes back.
Even if it comes back, you can contain it in dimensions that don't cause too much trouble. An example of this is Neo-Nazis. They exist, but they are marginalized, although their popularity seems to be on the rise because of increased immigration in many parts of the world. WW2 didn't weed out the Nazis.

[Bob Riebe]

Even if it comes back, you can contain it in dimensions that don't cause too much trouble. An example of this is Neo-Nazis. They exist, but they are marginalized, although their popularity seems to be on the rise because of increased immigration in many parts of the world. WW2 didn't weed out the Nazis.
It terminated its command; of course nowadays if the enemy is totally wiped off of the face of the earth, some liberals start flatulating about genocide.

[markabilly]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html

The zone itself does not have to be Christian for it to be a Christian war zone.
:rotflmao:

wow u believe these folks who are claiming to quote bush?????? :rolleyes:

Even if the identity of the source was not enough, Bush has never been that articulate!!!!! :rolleyes:

And to be saying those things to that audience?????? :rotflmao:


Q:ding dong, anybody home??

A:Yes this is George Bush.

Q:Good, I am God, and I am telling you to make war, got it?

A:Yes sir. err...duh....on who?

Q: Do I have to repeat myself???? 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'


A: Yes sir. Anything else?

Q: Yes, could you please learn how to say terrorist, and not tearist? You are getting on my nerves, almost as bad as that Taco Bell troll doll Ekiewikie from Finland.....

and another thing, "George go and fight those trolls in Finland"

A: Finland? Is that near Afganistan, Pakistan or Iran?? Anyway, I thought Ekie was really Mark from Britain........


Love it, people giving their lifes to save others from sufferring, and everyone here is arguing about killing in the name of Christ or alternatively, the pedo prophet.

[Eki]

It terminated its command; of course nowadays if the enemy is totally wiped off of the face of the earth, some liberals start flatulating about genocide.
For a good reason. Weeding them out totally aka "Final Solution", is what Hitler tried with the Jews and failed.

[Bob Riebe]

For a good reason. Weeding them out totally aka "Final Solution", is what Hitler tried with the Jews and failed.
The analogy does not exist, except in your addled mind.

Of course only you would confuse the Jews, who meekly surrendered, and were slaughtered, with the bureaucrats and their leaders of the NAZI party.

[Eki]

The analogy does not exist, except in your addled mind.

Of course only you would confuse the Jews, who meekly surrendered, and were slaughtered, with the bureaucrats and their leaders of the NAZI party.
Actually many of the Nazi leaders were slaughtered when they meekly surrendered. I thought you were talking about weeding out not just the Nazi leaders and bureaucrats, but also their supporters who voted them into power, all perhaps even all Germans. Even that wouldn't have guaranteed that new supporters of the Nazi ideology couldn't born elsewhere.

[Captain VXR]

The FARC leadership are all die-hard atheists.
But are all of their 'soldiers'?
I know Wikipedia isn't very reliable, most stuff on the net isn't, like posts by Eki and Sportscarbruce
It's still a terrible war with (some) Christians on both sides
What about the mass persecution of gays by 'Christians' and others in Africa? Isn't that some sort of 'moral'ist crusade?