Israel invades Lebanon

[Eki]

What else is new?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/08/03/lebanon.israel.hostilities/index.html?hpt=T1#fbid=9-nDuKXORIz

[anthonyvop]

What else is new?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/08/03/lebanon.israel.hostilities/index.html?hpt=T1#fbid=9-nDuKXORIz


Where in the article did it say that Israel invaded Lebanon? Actually it pointed out that credible sourced said that the IDF was well with Israeli territory.

[Camelopard]

As usual it depends on who you believe, the Lebanese Army says the idf crossed over the border, of course the idf denies it.

What is interesting this time is that it is the Lebanese Army involved and not Hezbollah.

In April there were reports of the idf crossing into Lebanon to do damage at a holiday resort being built by Khalil Abdallah in Al-Wazzani, wholly within Lebanon.

Of course the idf denied any wrong doing.

http://www.yalibnan.com/2010/04/17/dream-resort-in-lebanon-at-enemys-gate/

Back in one of the earlier discussions I stated that the feeling I got from ordinary Lebanese when I was there in April was that Israel was planning to invade again as the Lebanese were getting too uppity and needed to be put in their place.

[Easy Drifter]

Contrary to Eki's usual anti Israel post A Channel in Canada reported that Israel was removing a tree in admittedly disputed territory when Lebanese artillery opened fire. Israeli artillery responded. Apparently ground troops were not involved.

[Camelopard]

Contrary to Eki's usual anti Israel post A Channel in Canada reported that Israel was removing a tree in admittedly disputed territory when Lebanese artillery opened fire. Israeli artillery responded. Apparently ground troops were not involved.

And contrary to your usual anti eki ravings, the news channel I was watching last night said the idf started it.

[anthonyvop]

Contrary to Eki's usual anti Israel post A Channel in Canada reported that Israel was removing a tree in admittedly disputed territory when Lebanese artillery opened fire. Israeli artillery responded. Apparently ground troops were not involved.

So Israel didn't invade Lebanon?

[Eki]

Where in the article did it say that Israel invaded Lebanon? Actually it pointed out that credible sourced said that the IDF was well with Israeli territory.
No, it said they were in Lebanon.

[Rani]

The lies that go on here are outrageous.
UNIFIL officers told the IDF they were fired upon without justification. The whole thing was well orchestrated beforehand and the lebanese planned it in advance. It's no coincidence there were news crews at hand even before this started, and it's no coincidence battalion and company commanders were targetted. Anyone familiar with sniper's MO can easily see this was planned. The action of the IDF was conducted according to UN resolution 1701 and was even coordinated with the UN forces on the ground. Read the article I posted. Eki you are lying, and not for the first time. I'd never dare to post unsubstantiated claims like you do constantly. I think maybe I should start posting threads like 'Polynesia invades the Bahamas' or 'Luxembourg invades Andorra' to suit my political agenda. The hell with the truth.
I must admit these slander tactics flame Eki out every time, though.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929835,00.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=53a_1280870401

[Eki]

The lies that go on here are outrageous.
UNIFIL officers told the IDF they were fired upon without justification. The whole thing was well orchestrated beforehand and the lebanese planned it in advance. It's no coincidence there were news crews at hand even before this started, and it's no coincidence battalion and company commanders were targetted. Anyone familiar with sniper's MO can easily see this was planned. The action of the IDF was conducted according to UN resolution 1701 and was even coordinated with the UN forces on the ground. Read the article I posted. Eki you are lying, and not for the first time. I'd never dare to post unsubstantiated claims like you do constantly. I think maybe I should start posting threads like 'Polynesia invades the Bahamas' or 'Luxembourg invades Andorra' to suit my political agenda. The hell with the truth.
I must admit these slander tactics flame Eki out every time, though.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929835,00.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=53a_1280870401

So, now you take UNIFIL seriously, when it suits you? I remember a video filmed by Finnish peace keepers. They tried to stop an Israeli bulldozer from advancing in Lebanon, but the bulldozer just pushed the UNIFIL vehicle aside and the Israelis on the bulldozer flipped their middle finger at the peace keepers. In an other case told by a former Finnish peace keeper, an Israeli officer threatened the peace keepers with a pistol when they tried to stop the Israelis from destroying a Palestinian apartment building.

[Rani]

So, now you take UNIFIL seriously, when it suits you?
I thought you'd take their view seriously, that's why I posted.

[Camelopard]

Again as I have said in a much earlier discussion and seen with my own eyes, Israel regularly invades Lebanese airspace by having jets fly low level sorties over Lebanon.

The story that Eki points to has 2 very different versions, the Lebanese version:

"The Lebanese army said it asked the U.N. force to arbitrate the issue, but the Israeli forces didn't comply and entered Lebanese territory. That led the army to open fire, with Israeli forces returning artillery fire and hitting a house in the village of Odaise."

Which tallies with the version I saw on TV last night.

Why would Israel care what UNIFIL says or thinks, after all it isn't above killing UNIFIL peacekeepers when it wants to. Nor for that matter trying to sink US ships as has been shown previously. (USS Liberty?)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205549,00.html



http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-01/u-s-stocks-drop-on-report-lebanon-fired-on-israeli-warplanes.html

"Stocks fell to the lowest levels of the day after AFP said Lebanon’s military fired at Israeli planes as they flew over its airspace, according to a senior Israeli security official."


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/06/02/Israeli-planes-buzz-south-Lebanon-says/UPI-81841275511649/

Again showing scant regard for the UN:

"BEIRUT, Lebanon, June 2 (UPI) -- Israeli military jets were observed patrolling the skies above southern Lebanon in violation of U.N. Security Council measures, the military said."

[Rani]

Again as I have said in a much earlier discussion and seen with my own eyes, Israel regularly invades Lebanese airspace by having jets fly low level sorties over Lebanon.

The story that Eki points to has 2 very different versions, the Lebanese version:

"The Lebanese army said it asked the U.N. force to arbitrate the issue, but the Israeli forces didn't comply and entered Lebanese territory. That led the army to open fire, with Israeli forces returning artillery fire and hitting a house in the village of Odaise."

Which tallies with the version I saw on TV last night.

Why would Israel care what UNIFIL says or thinks, after all it isn't above killing UNIFIL peacekeepers when it wants to. Nor for that matter trying to sink US ships as has been shown previously. (USS Liberty?)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205549,00.html



http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-01/u-s-stocks-drop-on-report-lebanon-fired-on-israeli-warplanes.html

"Stocks fell to the lowest levels of the day after AFP said Lebanon’s military fired at Israeli planes as they flew over its airspace, according to a senior Israeli security official."


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/06/02/Israeli-planes-buzz-south-Lebanon-says/UPI-81841275511649/

Again showing scant regard for the UN:

"BEIRUT, Lebanon, June 2 (UPI) -- Israeli military jets were observed patrolling the skies above southern Lebanon in violation of U.N. Security Council measures, the military said."
Well aren't australian (and indeed all coalition forces) invading the airspace and ground borders of Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak?

I don't hear you protesting. As Hizbuallah is a terrorist organization I think Israel has every right to fight it, even more rights than countries such as Finland or Australia who send their soldiers a million miles away to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Double the standards double the fun I guess.

In any case, this has nothing to do with ambushing soldiers and than claiming they were 'invading'. If the lebanese army wants a war they should declare war and we'll see what happens. It seems this was an action decided on by a division/battalion commander on the ground (there seem to be many shiite Hizbuallah supporters in the lebanese military) rather than by lebanese high command who have no interest to wage war. If not than why provoke this?

[Eki]

I don't hear you protesting. As Hizbuallah is a terrorist organization I think Israel has every right to fight it, even more rights than countries such as Finland or Australia who send their soldiers a million miles away to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Double the standards double the fun I guess.

The Finnish soldiers in Afghanistan are peace keepers, they aren't there to fight, although it's hard to keep peace when there's fighting going on. And in Iraq has never been Finnish soldiers, and probably never will be, because Finland considered the invasion in Iraq illegal and doesn't want to help clean up the mess caused by the US.

[anthonyvop]

No, it said they were in Lebanon.


No it said it was in disputed territory!

[anthonyvop]

Why would Israel care what UNIFIL says or thinks,

Why should anyone care what the UN thinks?

Really? Why?

It isn't a democratically elected organization.

[Eki]

No it said it was in disputed territory!
"Disputed territory" doesn't mean anything else than it's disputed. When Israelis enter Lebanese territory and say it's their territory and the Lebanese deny it, that territory becomes disputed.

[anthonyvop]

"Disputed territory" doesn't mean anything else than it's disputed. When Israelis enter Lebanese territory and say it's their territory and the Lebanese deny it, that territory becomes disputed.

So Israel DID NOT INVADE Lebanon. They entered disputed territory.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ah more excuses for Eki and Cameleopard to whip Israel....as if they actually needed them.

The news bit I heard, and I didn't stay and watch hours of news for more reports was the Lebanese fired first, and they admit they fired first. Considering the media was up there, rational and logical people can draw their own conclusions.

I do know this much. If Israel really wants to invade, they don't go in 100 yards...they head for the outskirts of Beirut.

This isn't an an invasion, it is a misunderstanding and the Lebanese admitted they fired first...

[Easy Drifter]

Yes but Eki never lets facts interfere with his anti Israel agenda.
Nor does his Aussie cohert.

[Camelopard]

Yes but Eki never lets facts interfere with his anti Israel agenda.
Nor does his Aussie cohert.

It's cohort thanks very much, :) .

I also notice no comment from you and the other islamophobes on this forum about the idf entering Lebanon to damage construction equipment, (my first link above), doesn't fit with you and your puppet masters views does it. As usual you have virtually defended the idf for doing what it wants and getting away with it. Like for example killing UNIFIL peacekeepers.

Just as an aside, I asked this question some time ago and didn't get an answer, how many of you have actually been to this area and formed your own opinions about what is really going on without relying on what your shock jocks tell you to believe and think?

As I said earlier the idf invades Lebanese territory nearly every day without impunity and gets away with murder.

[Easy Drifter]

Sorry, I made a error in spelling.
Even Lebanon admitted they were the first ones to open fire, this time.
Stupid on both sides and a little openess from both would probably avoided an incident. The extremely unfortunate result is the needless deaths of people in both countries.
My real complaint was about Eki's very provocative and misleading title to the thread.
There was no invasion 'per se'.

[Hondo]

I wait for the day when Obama finally turns his back and walks away from Israel. That will be a fearful day for the Arabs because for all their public mouthing off, they know the USA hasn't been propping Israel up, the USA has been holding them back. They will change their tune once there is no one to tell Israel "no" anymore.

[Eki]

I wait for the day when Obama finally turns his back and walks away from Israel. That will be a fearful day for the Arabs because for all their public mouthing off, they know the USA hasn't been propping Israel up, the USA has been holding them back. They will change their tune once there is no one to tell Israel "no" anymore.
I don't think so. Without the support from the US, Israel could be isolated from the rest of the world. Well, that hasn't worked for North Korea, but South Africa started to listen and change their ways after few decades of sanctions.

[Hondo]

Israel will do what it feels it needs to do to survive. They will succeed because that's what they do. The Arabs will fail because that's what they do. In the event of sanctions, Israel is just as capable of disrupting the Middle East oil flow as any other country. In addition, they can cause serious problems with arab water supplies. Egypt and Jordon will honor their treaties with Israel. Syria has too much to lose by going against Israel alone. Lebanon and Iraq will need a good century to get their acts together and Iran's army will fall apart attacking off their own land. The Saudis will sit it out.
Israel will be ok.

[Mark in Oshawa]

EKi, Fiero is right and you know it. The Americans over the years have stopped the Israeli's from doing their first instinct, and that is striking back.

The Arab world wants to have this out, I am sure the Israeli army likes their odds in a straight out war. They haven't lost yet....but that isn't the war that is being fought. It is a propaganda and terrorist action....and the Americans have stood on the Israeli's to keep them from going out and having it out....

You guys can believe what you want about Israel, the Americans or the right or wrong in this all you like, but I can guess from a far that many in Israel don't want a war, but they are prepared to fight and win one of they have to. I doubt in the end many in the Arab world really want one....because they still remember the beatings they took the last time...

[Eki]

EKi, Fiero is right and you know it. The Americans over the years have stopped the Israeli's from doing their first instinct, and that is striking back.

? You lost me. Haven't they stricken back for every Palestinian attack and some more? They've also used the same tactic as the Nazis, i.e. revenged to the relatives or other civilians attacks done by the Palestinian resistance.

[Eki]

Israel will do what it feels it needs to do to survive. They will succeed because that's what they do. The Arabs will fail because that's what they do.
Sounds a bit racist. Well, I'll have some of that too: You know how the Jews are, they think Moses is Moses but business is business. That's why I'd bet they'd fold under sanctions faster than North Korea, who are fanatic too, but don't care even if they starve for their ideology.

[Mark in Oshawa]

? You lost me. Haven't they stricken back for every Palestinian attack and some more? They've also used the same tactic as the Nazis, i.e. revenged to the relatives or other civilians attacks done by the Palestinian resistance.

Have they ? Really? If they really wanted to punish the Palestinians, why would they pull out of the Gaza strip and annoy the hard core kibbutz resettlement crowd? If they really were bent on punishing the Palestinians, why would they not just roll up the West Bank and Gaza and push the Palestinians out? Why would they allow Palestinians into Israel at all for ANY reason. They do you know....

The whole problem you have with Israel is not my problem Eki. It is convenient for you to believe what you want, but trust me, the Israeli's know what they are dealing with. They cannot afford to lose a war, they cannot afford to show weakness. If they do, they will lose. In 92, the Oslo agreement that the PLO agreed to in principle before they went back on it would have given everyone the peace that is wanted. Palestininans would have world recognition for their state, but they would have to recognize Israel, and stop the terrorist activity and attacks on Jewish soil. Israel was willing to live up to its end and did until it was clear that no one in the West Bank or Gaza was going to hold up the Palestinian end. Hamas has in its charter a clause dedicated to eradicating the Jews from Palestine. How do you suppose one is to "negotiate" with that?

[Eki]

Have they ? Really?
Yes, they have for example destroyed homes of suicide bombers' families AFTER the bombings. It has obviously been too late to stop the suicide bombers who have already died in the bombings. They have just wanted to send a message to future potential suicide bombers. It's like the Nazis shot some local peasants in random after a successful operation by the local resistance.

[Eki]

Now Israel destroys a Bedouin village:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929981,00.html
http://www.promisedlandblog.com/?p=3261

And the Bedouins haven't even launched fire crackers.

If that had been a settlement built by Jewish immigrants, it would not have happened.

[Captain VXR]

If people are killing each other over trees, is there any f***ing hope for peace in the Levant? :(

[Rani]

Now Israel destroys a Bedouin village:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929981,00.html
http://www.promisedlandblog.com/?p=3261

And the Bedouins haven't even launched fire crackers.

If that had been a settlement built by Jewish immigrants, it would not have happened.

What on earth are you talking about?
Illegal jewish settlements are destroyed all the time. Even settlements built legally like all those in Gaza and sinai were destroyed. Using your selective memory as always I see.

[Eki]

What on earth are you talking about?
Illegal jewish settlements are destroyed all the time. Even settlements built legally like all those in Gaza and sinai were destroyed. Using your selective memory as always I see.
At least the Bedouins have a good point when they say they have lived there before Israel was founded, so it's weird that Israel thinks it has the right to decide it's not their land and they are there illegally.

[Rani]

At least the Bedouins have a good point when they say they have lived there before Israel was founded, so it's weird that Israel thinks it has the right to decide it's not their land and they are there illegally.
If you knew anything about bedouins you'd know they migrate regularly, sometimes movng their 'mahal' annualy. While this sort of lifestyle was feasible in centuries gone by it isn't as possible in this day and age. How would you feel if someone would move his belongings including home, livestock, farming equipment and cows and settled on your property which you legally bought?
Legal bedouin villages which are plentiful are never destroyed. Illegal buildings both jewish and arab are demolished equally.

[Eki]

If you knew anything about bedouins you'd know they migrate regularly, sometimes movng their 'mahal' annualy. While this sort of lifestyle was feasible in centuries gone by it isn't as possible in this day and age. How would you feel if someone would move his belongings including home, livestock, farming equipment and cows and settled on your property which you legally bought?
Legal bedouin villages which are plentiful are never destroyed. Illegal buildings both jewish and arab are demolished equally.
"Legally" in "legally bought" is debatable. One has to consider who made the laws. The Nazis also legally sent people to concentration camps, according to the laws they made by themselves. Legally isn't the same as rightfully. If the Bedouins voluntarily sold that land for a fair price, then you could say it was rightfully bought and the Bedouins should stay away from the land they sold.

[Saint Devote]

So, now you take UNIFIL seriously, when it suits you? I remember a video filmed by Finnish peace keepers. They tried to stop an Israeli bulldozer from advancing in Lebanon, but the bulldozer just pushed the UNIFIL vehicle aside and the Israelis on the bulldozer flipped their middle finger at the peace keepers. In an other case told by a former Finnish peace keeper, an Israeli officer threatened the peace keepers with a pistol when they tried to stop the Israelis from destroying a Palestinian apartment building.

Finnish peacekeepers :eek: :rotflmao:

They are usually so filled with vodka and do whatever the Lebanese-Hizbullah dictate.

One can always see where they are from Israel's side - usually when Hizbullah tells them to jump, they ask "how high!" :rotflmao:

[Tomi]

Finnish peacekeepers :eek: :rotflmao:

They are usually so filled with vodka and do whatever the Lebanese-Hizbullah dictate.

One can always see where they are from Israel's side - usually when Hizbullah tells them to jump, they ask "how high!" :rotflmao:

Maybe you can give some examples, when they have been taking sides?

[Hondo]

Sounds a bit racist. Well, I'll have some of that too: You know how the Jews are, they think Moses is Moses but business is business. That's why I'd bet they'd fold under sanctions faster than North Korea, who are fanatic too, but don't care even if they starve for their ideology.

Facts are not racist, they are merely facts. If you want to call me racist because the Arabs are incapable of fielding an effective military force, go ahead. We are all racist to some extent anyway. Most especially those that deny it. Me loving Arabs like a brother and marrying 5 Arab wives isn't going to improve their military effectiveness.

[Eki]

Me loving Arabs like a brother and marrying 5 Arab wives isn't going to improve their military effectiveness.
No, but if the US gave as much or more military aid to them as they do to Israel, it might improve their military effectiveness. I don't get why the US favors Israel, because only about 2% of the Americans are Jewish.

[Hondo]

No, but if the US gave as much or more military aid to them as they do to Israel, it might improve their military effectiveness. I don't get why the US favors Israel, because only about 2% of the Americans are Jewish.

The Arabs were quite content with the equipment they got from the Soviets. In most cases the Soviet equipment was theoretically superior to US equipment in many ways and the Arabs could get a bunch of it. Used by determined troops, the Soviet Sagger missile could have been devastating to Israeli armour, but it wasn't. Leadership, morale, superior training, and superior tactics is what got Israel by. Israel also had large inventories of French and English equipment. Israeli tank commanders had a habit of going into battle unbuttoned, that is to say they were standing in the hatch exposed but had an unobstructed view of the battlefield with no blind spots. In addition, in training they worked out a "point blank" gun elevation that would allow them to hit a tank sized target somewhere from close range out to a considerable distance without further adjustments. That allowed them to keep ringing the enemies bell until they could get a kill shot in on them. The Israelis used to lose a lot of tank commanders. I don't know why the US government favors Israel either but I can tell you this; If the entire US hated Israel with a passion, we would continue to support them for as long as various tin-horn, goatherd thugs continue to tell us we must stop. That's just the way we are.