Who will be Champion ?

[pino]

Here's the standings with 7 crucial races left... who's going to win it ?

1 Mark Webber 161
2 Lewis Hamilton 157
3 Sebastian Vettel 151
4 Jenson Button 147
5 Fernando Alonso 141

[Valve Bounce]

Vettel will smarten up his act, he is fastest on the track in that car, and he will win. :(

[Saint Devote]

Before the start of the season I reckoned that Alonso would win, but now Webber is looking the strongest.

Nevertheless, the strength that will in my view win out in the end is Ferrari - they know how to win championships and WILL do what they have to.

I vote for Alonso - also because in the RB6 yesterday, he would have driven away.

Although if Webber does win - it would be another amazing racing story - Jense then Webber? You could not write this stuff!

[Saint Devote]

Vettel will smarten up his act, he is fastest on the track in that car, and he will win. :(

Championships are won by the canniest.

Several times Vettel made driving errors yesterday - Webber reminded me of Niki Lauda when HE used to circulate lap after lap from start to finish like a metronome.

I just LOVED watching Webber's driving yesterday. Describing someone driving Lauda-like is for me the highest compliment I can pay.

[bluegem280]

Two McLarens and two Redbull have 10 points deficit one another. All of them have nearly the same chance on winning.

Provided Ferrari in the next races can perform with some improvement, Alonso would be there challenging the title. Team can easily send another messages to Massa. :)

[Mark]

Bit too close to call at the moment - isn't it great!
But Vettel for all his problems this year is only 10 points behind. I think he'll nick it in the end.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm thinking Webber because he's driving the best car. Vettel is making too many errors to put together a WDC winning year and Mark has the experience which could see him through.

If McLaren get their qualifying pace sorted then Hamilton & Button may be serious contenders, but as more races pass into the history books a second title for either of them is looking less likely.

Alonso's the outsider for me, even with Massa's support.

Still...a lot can, and probably will, change!!

[Valve Bounce]

Championships are won by the canniest.

Several times Vettel made driving errors yesterday - Webber reminded me of Niki Lauda when HE used to circulate lap after lap from start to finish like a metronome.

I just LOVED watching Webber's driving yesterday. Describing someone driving Lauda-like is for me the highest compliment I can pay.

You could have said he drove like Bunsen. :p : :D :rotflmao:

[ShiftingGears]

It's quite incredible to think that if there's a chaotic Belgian Grand Prix, any of those drivers could exit the race with the championship lead.

The last two European races will suit McLaren a lot more than Hungaroring, that is for sure.

[Saint Devote]

You could have said he drove like Bunsen. :p : :D :rotflmao:

Indeed :D

Webber and Jense have in recent times had some great dices - remember those last ten laps at Yas Marina in 2009? Superb!

[CaptainRaiden]

Out of the 7 races remaining, 3 of those circuits IMO should suit the Mclaren, HOPEFULLY! (fingers crossed :D ). So, I'm going to say Hamilton, also because IMO he's the more talented one out of the four in contention. The three circuits I'm talking about are Spa, Monza and Suzuka.

Spa because this year's Mclaren has already delivered on high speed circuits, and Lewis goes well there. Monza because of the Mclaren's superior straightline speed, and Suzuka because they have a big upgrade coming up at Spa, and with 24 days to copy and implement the flexi wings, and other key elements I guess they'll close the gap and probably knock off a second or two off their lap times. And I'd vouch for Mclaren more than any other team to be able to do just that. Hopefully they can avoid any more mechanical failures.

This is one of the most interesting seasons in recent memory, where any one of the three teams can take it in the end. Can't wait!

[Mark]

This is one of the most interesting seasons in recent memory, where any one of the three teams can take it in the end. Can't wait!

Agreed. Most years at this point there's one driver with a pretty decent lead and the question is can he be caught by the end of the season. At this point, nobody can claim to have any particular advantage or claim to be 'out in front' with the others chasing.

[markabilly]

Webber, i think Vettel makes too many mistakes.

Now if the FIA fixes the "wing issue" so the playing field is now flatter for Mac, then Hamilton or maybe even FA is a better bet....


but until Mac steps up or FIA stomps down......that leaves Webber

but the stomp down may happen soon
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85817

[Mark]

but the stomp down may happen soon
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85817

Seems like a fair approach from the FIA!

[Zico]

I think Vettel will screw the nut and go on to win it by a close margin.

[steveaki13]

I think Webber or Hamilton. If the tracks coming suit Mclaren he will win a race or two and if not Webber will win them.

So for me it between those two, then, Vettel, Alonso, Button.

[Retro Formula 1]

I said at the start of the season it would be Vettel and still think he will do it. Just needs to get his head out of his ass on race day and start converting on these great qualifying.

[christophulus]

Hamilton. He's more mature and experienced than 07/08, and I think McLaren will just edge the other two in development, even though they're behind at the moment.

[rohanweb]

Hamilton Vs Webber for the champonship.

provided Mclaren's comeup with a decent car to close the gap in the next races, Lewis was pushing really hard that car to put it by the front runners.. I agree with many here Vettel makes too many mistakes and i dont like his fingering attitude, Fernando not quiet there [but they have team orders in place] , hmmmm for the last couple of races Mclaren looked alike a donkey for sure, Jenson is not a great champion as some of you here saying he has to put the foot down or he will be looking for a new drive next year, its not looking any good for him right now.

[Mia 01]

It seems as MacLaren have slipped back, even Renualt and Williams are now on pair with them. I voted Webber or Vettel.

[woody2goody]

It could still be Hamilton, but I think Webber will be champion.

He has the experience to get him through, and to resist the challenge of Vettel.

I think all will depend on how quick McLaren are at Spa and Monza. I expect them to win at Monza, but I expect a great battle at Spa between the top 3 teams, maybe even with Force India thrown in like last year. However if Red Bull can win at Monza then it's all over IMO.

Then Singapore is probably Hamilton's track, Suzuka should favour Red Bull and Ferrari, Korea is a crapshoot, Brazil I'd go for Button, Massa or Webber, and Abu Dhabi is anyone's I reckon.

Overall I think that Webber will be more consistent than Vettel, and even though Seb is possibly a bit quicker, Mark knows the tracks better, and after the year he's had, I don't think he'll let anybody snatch the title from his grasp.

[Saint Devote]

Mclaren's biggest problem is not qualifying alone, it is also their race pace. At both Hockenheim and Hungaroring they could just not keep up.

The Mclaren's have a big problem with their front wing - whereas both Red Bull and Ferrari are ahead in rate of development.

The question is how likely will any possible restiction by the FIA on the flexible wings inhibit?

This actually even adds to the Mclaren dilemma - until Spa all that Red Bull and Ferrari need do is make an adjustment to account for the new test parameters and, not onlyhas Mclaren losy Pat Fry to Ferrari but Red Bull have Adrian Newey.

Mclaren still have to catch up with these two teams and the shut down will not help.

Mclaren does not appeaar to be a team that thinks laterally - and the loss of technical chief Fry is a significant blow.

I reckon at both Spa and Monza, they may be quickest in a straight line, but it is the downforce getting around the corners that makes all the difference. This is not oval racing.

Odds of either Jense or Hamilton becoming champion over Webber, Alonso and Vettel is pretty well non-existent.

[Saint Devote]

The biggest mistake is not to consider Vettel as a real title contender this year.

He is the quickest driver in formula 1 today and drives a car that is quick at all types of circuit.

[bluegem280]

If only they didn't create a mess in Turkey redbull is now a one two in the standing. Perhaps this year we can give it to Webber, he has been around in F1 good while from Jaguar, BMW, Williams and now Redbull. Vettel still has long future. But if not careful, the young driver will snatch the title away. We are only in halfway of the season, those are not in the list still have enough chance. Don't write off Rosberg, he is strong, the mower..

[Valve Bounce]

There are 7 races to go, and a helluva lot of mega points for winners. One dnf and some other schmuck takes over the lead. I say, at this stage that the championship is wide open, depending on how FIA rulings may go for the rest of the season.

The front wing flex might equalise the teams, the WMSC hearing may seriously affect Ferrari, (or it may not), and some guy might get ingrown toenails that could affect his braking.

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking..............etc,etc,etc.... you know the rest.

[truefan72]

You could have said he drove like Bunsen. :p : :D :rotflmao:

you know he had to throw in some vaguely relevant historical reference

[truefan72]

as to the WDC, it is too close to call, but if I was forced to give an answer I'd say it is going to come down to Webber or Hamilton. One more win for webber and poor result for Vettel will seal the deal on #1 status for this year. But I doubt Vettel would want to play wingman which might end up costing Webber. As to Hamilton, the situation is similar but for the fact that if Button were sorta out of it, he would probably help Hamilton more.

The dark horse and unknown factor is Alonso. He might still pull a kimi 2007 and come out of nowhere to take the championship.

I honestly believe that the WDC will be decided in the last race with 4 and maybe 5 guys with an opportunity to win it.

The spoiler role will be played by Williams, who I think might just be challenging for podiums by the end of the year.

[CNR]

Alonso may have points taken off him
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6292431/FIA-summon-Ferrari-for-hearing



The stewards declared Ferrari in breach of article 39.1 of the FIA 2010 sporting regulations that states 'team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.'
They were also charged with a breach of article 151c of the FIA International Sporting Code.
That relates to 'any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally'.

I believe that this would be different to spygate as the drivers were involved

[Ruf RGT-8]

Webber... pleeeeeaaaseeee??? Objectively though apart from some occasional brain fade (Melbourne, Valencia) he has done amazingly well. There's still a long way to go though, and Mclaren will light the afterburners at Monza and Suzuka.

Vettel will probably get it though :(

[Saint Devote]

Webber... pleeeeeaaaseeee??? Objectively though apart from some occasional brain fade (Melbourne, Valencia) he has done amazingly well. There's still a long way to go though, and Mclaren will light the afterburners at Monza and Suzuka.

Vettel will probably get it though :(

One team that has "lit the afterburners" is Ferrari - they began by enticing Pat Fry to the Scuderia - a big whack upside the head for Woking - and were the only other team to twig on what RBR were doing with their front wing.

The FIA has been stepping on RBR innovation all year and is set to act once more - at this stage they are even stronger while Mclaren is at it slowest of the year - they have been overtaken on the rate of development by Ferrari as well.


There is some way to go but given how dominant Vettel was at Suzuka and his brilliant peformance at Monza in 2008, along with Alonso [especially at Monza] and that Webber is in the zone - I doubt Mclaren is going to play anything else BUT catchup for the remainder of the season.

[Valve Bounce]

Alonso may have points taken off him
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6292431/FIA-summon-Ferrari-for-hearing



I believe that this would be different to spygate as the drivers were involved

Not to mention that the bookies had to pay out on Alonso winning, and he was at much shorter priced and possibly had more money bet on a win.

[Cooper_S]

I am hopeful it won't be webber, but any of the top 5 is fine by me really.

[motetarip]

Vettel is ultimately the fastest driver/car combination all year so he should win, as long as he concentrates on his own race and doesn't try to force others off the track! (Webber, Hamilton, Alonso etc).

However, a rapid technical progress by McLaren or Ferrari could see Alonso or Hamilton as WDC.

Button has a well deserved 0 votes on this pole so far!

[truefan72]

Vettel is ultimately the fastest driver/car combination all year so he should win,
err. not this year, that other guy has 4 wins and some spectacular drivers compared to the 2 by Vettel. I think there is nothing between them in terms of pace. Vettel may be a slightly better qualifier, but races are won on Sunday. He's has had a few terrible starts, a couple of mental errors and has no one to blame but himself for that.

Anyway, any of the top 5 have a shot to win. The WDc is earned on the track rather than who we think "should" win.

[motetarip]

err. not this year, that other guy has 4 wins and some spectacular drivers compared to the 2 by Vettel. I think there is nothing between them in terms of pace. Vettel may be a slightly better qualifier, but races are won on Sunday. He's has had a few terrible starts, a couple of mental errors and has no one to blame but himself for that.

Anyway, any of the top 5 have a shot to win. The WDc is earned on the track rather than who we think "should" win.

Races are indeed won on the Sunday. I would have thought if he's a better qualifier that would be an indication that (traffic aside) he is the quicker driver. Webber is capable of banzai performances in the race, for better or worse lol

[CNR]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/webbers-rise-puts-humble-pie-on-the-menu-20100803-115il.html?rand=1280844406791
Webber's rise puts humble pie on the menu


come November, just possibly the purchaser of a very large carton of eggs - the contents to be smeared on the faces of those of us who wrote off Webber's now undisputed ability far more recklessly than he used to write off his rides.

[Saint Devote]

There should not be ANY Mclaren driver included as likely to win the WDC this year. To have Hamilton ahead of Alonso AND Vettel is just ridiculous.

Underestimate the German driver at your peril. Sure he has gone through something of torrid period but remember also that this the same driver that beat a Mclaren in a Toro Rosso in the most incredible wet weather performance we have seen for a very long time.

Secondly, he is in a team that does not exactly guide its drivers as did Mclaren with the for years coddled Granadian-English driver Hamilton.

I expect Vettel to return in part 3 of teh season and to circuits he loves such as Monza and Suzuka refreshed and as the quickest driver in f1 these days who will win more than his current SEVEN pole positions and not make similar errors he has done.

The champion will be Vettel or Webber or Alonso but, anyone belieiving that Hamilton will win this year is merely continuing idiocy that people have over Hamilton: being besotted by him. Get a grip on reality!

[Saint Devote]

Races are indeed won on the Sunday. I would have thought if he's a better qualifier that would be an indication that (traffic aside) he is the quicker driver. Webber is capable of banzai performances in the race, for better or worse lol

Yes, but once again it was an error by Vettel that did it. I feel sorry for Sebastian, he receives bugger all good guidance from the pit - they ought to have watched over him on Sunday and avoided the penalty situation - and frequently stupid calls.

With a techincal team and pit wall as competent as Mclaren, Vettel would have been leading this championship with Webber - no contest.

If RBR do not win at least the title most coveted by their boss - the Constructors title but also the WDC, I expect Christian Horner will be booted out abd he wil deserve it.

RBR should hire Flavio Briatore - they WILL win the titles and Webber at least will also have a good ally and great friend in the team.

[woody2goody]

I still can't see Red Bull winning at Monza - they simply don't have the straight line speed to overtake people or keep them behind. If Hamilton or Button with their F-ducts get anywhere near a Red Bull, then there won't be a contest.

I'm not that convinced about Ferrari doing well there either, although I still think they will beat Red Bull.

I'm going to sound completely crazy and throw Force India and Toro Rosso in the mix for podiums. We know FI is great in low-downforce spec, and Toro Rosso have consitently had some of the quickest straight-line speeds, and they performed excellently at Montreal - a track where there are a lot more corners than Monza.

This is why I think the title race could be a lot closer than expected. Abu Dhabi and Brazil should suit McLaren and maybe Ferrari as well.

[Saint Devote]

I still can't see Red Bull winning at Monza - they simply don't have the straight line speed to overtake people or keep them behind. If Hamilton or Button with their F-ducts get anywhere near a Red Bull, then there won't be a contest.



RBR "install" straightline speed when they need to. Just look how quick they were at Silverstone and they won there - and this was Mclaren WITH their f-duct - and at that time Hamilton qualified almost ONE SECOND slower than Vettel.

Potentially, they are going to "wipe the floor" with Mclaren at Spa and Monza.

[Roamy]

I think it is between red bull and ferrari - if one of these drivers win spa and monza it is over.

[Valve Bounce]

So do you understand the technical structure of Mclaren abit better now from my previous post, or is there another reason why you have conveniently side stepped it? :eek:

There you go: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=&q=Happy+Feet&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=YglZTP74MZDQcd6q-PII&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CEAQsAQwAw&biw=1920&bih=854

[Retro Formula 1]

There should not be ANY Mclaren driver included as likely to win the WDC this year. To have Hamilton ahead of Alonso AND Vettel is just ridiculous.

Underestimate the German driver at your peril. Sure he has gone through something of torrid period but remember also that this the same driver that beat a Mclaren in a Toro Rosso in the most incredible wet weather performance we have seen for a very long time.

Secondly, he is in a team that does not exactly guide its drivers as did Mclaren with the for years coddled Granadian-English driver Hamilton.

I expect Vettel to return in part 3 of teh season and to circuits he loves such as Monza and Suzuka refreshed and as the quickest driver in f1 these days who will win more than his current SEVEN pole positions and not make similar errors he has done.

The champion will be Vettel or Webber or Alonso but, anyone belieiving that Hamilton will win this year is merely continuing idiocy that people have over Hamilton: being besotted by him. Get a grip on reality!

You demonstrate time and time again that you have no consideration or respect for others opinion so why should anyone respect yours?

These crappy McLarens, which were over half a second off the pace at the last race, are 2 and 4 in the championship. This Hamilton that everyone is "besotted" by, is 4 points off the championship lead.

Yes, Vettel should be miles ahead in the championship but he and Red Bull have been atrocious this year in converting potential to results whereas Lewis has driven way past the ability of the car. You had better pray that McLaren don't close the gap to the Bulls during the Summer.

I think you need to get a grip on reality and a sense of respect for others opinions.

[AndyL]

Granadian-English driver Hamilton

Sorry to be so picky StD, but Hamilton's grandparents came from Grenada, not Granada. The two places are thousands of miles apart.

[motetarip]

and to be even pickier, if we're classified by our ancestors' nationalities there's very few people who can call themselves pure English :D

[motetarip]

Yes, Vettel should be miles ahead in the championship but he and Red Bull have been atrocious this year in converting potential to results whereas Lewis has driven way past the ability of the car. You had better pray that McLaren don't close the gap to the Bulls during the Summer.

Fully agree. I really can't see how McLaren will claw back a second a lap, especially with no track time

[CaptainRaiden]

The champion will be Vettel or Webber or Alonso but, anyone belieiving that Hamilton will win this year is merely continuing idiocy that people have over Hamilton: being besotted by him. Get a grip on reality!

You talk like you already know the future. You do realize that the Mclaren was never the clearly fastest car for the whole of this season, yet Lewis lies second in the championship only 4 points adrift. What does that tell you?

How do you know for sure Mclaren are not going to sort out the flexible front wing and blown diffuser? How do you know Red Bull and especially their two drivers are not going to cock-up again this season?

[Retro Formula 1]

Nice post Henners but feel you're wasting your time composing such a reasoned and articulate post to STD's pompous, arrogant and quite frankly nauseating fustian claptrap.

[Saint Devote]

I don't know whether to be slightly angry with this post of laugh at the shocking levels of double standards and inconsistencies. Firstly Vettel's journey to F1 was not too dis-similar to that of Lewis Hamilton. If we push aside Vettel's wealthy upbringing in comparison to Lewis, and the fact his family are close friends with that of the Schumacher's, we are left with two drivers who were spotted at an early age, funded, and nurtured in a driver development programme which ultimately gave them a drive in a top team.

There is absolutely no way you can tell who is the quickest driver out of the two because neither have ever been sat in the same machinery. Saying Vettel is the fastest based on this season would be like claiming Lewis was faster than Vettel in 2008 lol. Of course he was, because his car back then was superior much like the RB6 is this season. Vettel has shown to be matched on pace with Webber and has only claimed 2 victories out of a possible 7. The kid is still learning and displays much of the naivity and arrogance Lewis had when he entered F1, but a complete driver he is not. He may well win the title this year but lets not forget Lewis is 4 points adrift in second place and alot can happen in 4 weeks. If Mclaren were to come back and have closed the gap, a driver like Lewis has proven he can get the best out of the car and your hilarious claim above may well come back to haunt you.

Finally, criticizing forumers on here for being 'besotted' or showing support for their favourite driver is particularly amusing for me when I think back to the over the top, sickly, and frankly rather creepy posts you made about Jenson for the last part of the 2009 season on this very forum lol. It doesn't bear thinking about and I'm sure others here will agree. :p

If Mclaren sort their act out over the next few weeks, I have faith Lewis will cause considerable damage to the WDC race and even clinch it. If a Red Bull driver has to win it this year I think Webber deserves it for his noble effort through some dark times of team favouritism, and their (Marko's) public blaming fest after the Turkey disaster. Webber got his own back on that one after Silverstone as we all know. Alonso may also be a strong candidate for the title and if Ferrari come through the FIA scruntineering and Massa hands him a few more positions, he has as much chance as the other three IMO. :)

You are just sore because no matter what you will find a reason why Hamilton should have won, ought to have won and is surely the quckest and the best ad nauseum. NO MATTER WHAT!

I support Jense, but I do not pretend,

[Saint Devote]

Sorry to be so picky StD, but Hamilton's grandparents came from Grenada, not Granada. The two places are thousands of miles apart.

GrEnada not GrAnada :D

[Saint Devote]

and to be even pickier, if we're classified by our ancestors' nationalities there's very few people who can call themselves pure English :D

:D Would SASSENACH be a better description then?

On Lewis - it is he that had the flags of both countries on his helmet at Silverstone and he does spend time there with family.

So I ssume he considers himself a GrEnadian-Brit. Although how relevant either is is questionable considering that he lives in Switzerland now and Jense for example has not effectively lived in the UK for over TEN years now.

[Tazio]

I still can't see Red Bull winning at Monza - they simply don't have the straight line speed to overtake people or keep them behind. If Hamilton or Button with their F-ducts get anywhere near a Red Bull, then there won't be a contest.

I'm not that convinced about Ferrari doing well there either, although I still think they will beat Red Bull.

I'm going to sound completely crazy and throw Force India and Toro Rosso in the mix for podiums. We know FI is great in low-downforce spec, and Toro Rosso have consitently had some of the quickest straight-line speeds, and they performed excellently at Montreal - a track where there are a lot more corners than Monza.

This is why I think the title race could be a lot closer than expected. Abu Dhabi and Brazil should suit McLaren and maybe Ferrari as well.
Woody I'm impressed with your analysis! I have some similar opinions, to a point
As things stand right now this is how I project performance at the remaining tracks:

Spa = Any one from 5, RB6, MP4/25, F10, R30 and VJM/3
Monza = MP4/25 & VJM/3
Singapore = RB6 or F10
Suzuka = RB6 or MP4/25
Korea = N/A I dont have a freakin' clue :confused:
Interlagos = RB6 or F10
Yas Marina = RB6 or F10

[henners88]

:D Would SASSENACH be a better description then?

On Lewis - it is he that had the flags of both countries on his helmet at Silverstone and he does spend time there with family.

So I ssume he considers himself a GrEnadian-Brit. Although how relevant either is is questionable considering that he lives in Switzerland now and Jense for example has not effectively lived in the UK for over TEN years now.
Both are English though, and no matter how much your try and flamebate the subject, its not going to change that. ;)

[CNR]

i hope that red bull and the driver do not do what they have done in the last 2 yrars

with unreliability in the last half of the season

but it would be good to see mark win it
it will be 30 years from when alan jones won the championship

yet in that time australia has picked up 7 motogp championships

[Saint Devote]

Both are English though, and no matter how much your try and flamebate the subject, its not going to change that. ;)

I'm not flamebaiting anything.

Of course they are English - but they are also ex-pats and Lewis likes his connection to GrEnada just as Franchitti does his to Italy.

Lewis did have a GrEnadian flag on his helmet and he DOES live in Switzerland and Jense's homes are in Monte Carlo [mostly] and Bahrain.

Nigel Mansell did not find a reason to live outside the UK.

This is all the truth.

[Tazio]

i hope that red bull and the driver do not do what they have done in the last 2 yrars

with unreliability in the last half of the season

but it would be good to see mark win it
it will be 30 years from when alan jones won the championship

yet in that time australia has picked up 7 motogp championships
Australia has had some great racers that participated in Motogp :up:
Aprilia has produced 34 world championship MGP bikes last time I checked. :)

[motetarip]

It would be good to see Webber get the championship, if only because the other top 4 have either already won the WDC, or have years to do so (Vettel)

[Saint Devote]

It would be good to see Webber get the championship, if only because the other top 4 have either already won the WDC, or have years to do so (Vettel)

AYE!!! :D :D

I agree with you absolutely! Between the 2008, 2009 and if it is Webber 2010 - we would have the most incredible and different stories to success.

It would make such a wonderful movie and even better than usual because it would be TRUE! You can't write this stuff!

[Saint Devote]

I think it is between red bull and ferrari - if one of these drivers win spa and monza it is over.

Anyone writing off Alonso at this stage is "living dangerously". We could just see this championship end up similar to that in 2007.

With Red Bull doing what Mclaren did and ironically Alonso being the advantaged one this time - if he wins the title it will for him be very sweet revenge on Mclaren.

[Mia 01]

Yes, Alonso is very much in the WDC hunt, that is if he has enough engines for the remaining races this year. How many has he left, two? he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza? A penalty for changing engines and missed points if a DFN. It could be tough for dear Aloso. :(

As for Hamilton. MacLaren are out developed by Ferrari and Red Bull are out of reach. Up until now he had a lot of luck but I´m afraid that he has used all of it.

[CNR]

Yes, Alonso is very much in the WDC hunt, that is if he has enough engines for the remaining races this year. How many has he left, two? he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza? A penalty for changing engines and missed points if a DFN. It could be tough for dear Aloso. :(

As for Hamilton. MacLaren are out developed by Ferrari and Red Bull are out of reach. Up until now he had a lot of luck but I´m afraid that he has used all of it.

will Alonso (Cheat) get to keep the points from Germany or will they be striped by the FIA

i see this the same as lewis and liegate

[Tazio]

Yes, Alonso is very much in the WDC hunt, that is if he has enough engines for the remaining races this year. How many has he left, two? he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza? A penalty for changing engines and missed points if a DFN. It could be tough for dear Aloso. :(

As for Hamilton. MacLaren are out developed by Ferrari and Red Bull are out of reach. Up until now he had a lot of luck but I´m afraid that he has used all of it.Check it out Einstein!
If what you say is correct, (Fred has two new lumps left for the season). Since Ferrari haven’t had a detonation since they fixed their valve seats.
As I say if you are correct, and if this trend continues (getting the three races off remaining lumps),
that leaves him with one race to use any of the others that have been used, which is not ideal but quite manageable. IMO
I thought his engine situation was much worse than that.

he has to use one new for Spa, dosen`t he, and Monza?

No!!!

Do you mean he only has two lumps left that don’t have at least two races on them?

Perhaps someone could provide a link. :confused:

[Saint Devote]

will Alonso (Cheat) get to keep the points from Germany or will they be striped by the FIA

i see this the same as lewis and liegate

Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

[ioan]

Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

:down:

[CNR]

Without wanting to dredge up old controversy, I cannot let this pass. Liegate and what occurred at Hockenheim has absolutely no resemblance to what Lewis was involved in that caused the scapegoating and eventual sacrifical lambing of Davey Ryan.

Alonso and Ferrari did not cheat and Ferrari did not exactly try too hard to deny team orders. Nobody was hung out to dry.

Hamilton if you recall LIED not once but TWICE to officials and then suffered NONE of the consequences because Ryan was made the fall guy.

A disgrace that almost caused Lewis to retire from racing and I am sure that there are times when his mind drifts that it is an episode he will never forget what he was part of.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I dislike him and could NEVER support such a person. A moral coward.

i meant that the driver was involved so the punishment should be the same

[Saint Devote]

We won't talk about the fact Stefano Domenicali, Luca Colajanni, and several other members of the team lied to the stewards in Germany in that case. :eek:

The difference in Lewis's case was the fact it was sensationalised by the media and used to publicise F1 in its opening race. It topped the headlines and gave valuable exposure to the sport at the expense of Lewis and his superiors. The similarity between the two cases is the fact both incidents involved team members lying to the stewards and one committed the crime in an obvious manner whilst the others did it through code. Both incidents carry shame but neither is more serious than the other if we are discussing the 'lie factor' IMO.

The Ferrari team at no time were accused of lying - Alonso WAS quicker and earlier in therace Massa refused to allow him by - leading to the "ridiculous" comment by Alonso. Vettel was catching up and Ferrari were concerned.

They did not want a RBR Turkey situation and validly so.

That is what they told the stewards - in their view it was not team orders and when sked they said no. But after being accused of this Ferrari quickly realized the possible Catch 22 trap and Luca came oot in the open and disussed the matter.

It is an uncertain rule and this is why there will be a hearing.

And teams such as Renault said that it is not so much what was done but that because of the rule it ought to have been done in a subtle way.

Not to mention that team orders is the right of a team and ALL the teams support that.

Nothing at like the straight forward lying over an incident that was subsequently proven by evidence. Both Hamilton and Ryan lied and did so TWICE until confronted with the evidence.

Then, Hamilton in the most cowardly way, joined in making Dave Ryan the scapegoat.

Hamilton is a moral coward. He acted this way in first challenging Jenson in the London Triathlon and then getting "daddy" to make up a bs excuse when he got cold feet. Then lie-gate.

I do not like weak, mawkish people. Hamilton may be an excellent racing driver, but he is certainly very weak of character.

Thats what happens to spoilt brats.

[Saint Devote]

It was a team order, Ferrari denied it was a team order post race, LdM admitted it was a team order through the teams website, and even the doltish of mathematicians amongst us had a conclusion. The rest is history and has been done to death.

Thats what I said above - Ferrari first tried to answer by explaining why and then they saw the trap so Luca confirmed that as it was Ferrari's right ......

In the upcoming meeting of the Council nothing will happen to the team because all the teams want the stupid rule, that contravene's the right, to be abandoned.

Ferrari showed great courage and through their action in Germany things will improve.

And importantly Bernie supports them on this as well.

[Tazio]

Or stupidity which ever way you look at it. They were fined and may face further punishment so its abit early to claim a revolution IMO. At the end of the day they broke a rule which carries a punishment, and if the FIA give way to them on this, then it opens every rule up for debate.I thought every rule in F1 was subject to debate, and upon Bernie's whim. :confused:

[Saint Devote]

Or stupidity which ever way you look at it. They were fined and may face further punishment so its abit early to claim a revolution IMO. At the end of the day they broke a rule which carries a punishment, and if the FIA give way to them on this, then it opens every rule up for debate.

Not all rules pertain to a teams right.

I dont think Ferrari wanted to cover it up. Motezemolo has gained tremendous stature within FOTA and his power has risen following the "war".

The SF look at team orders as their right - which is correct - and this is why it unfolded the way it did.

With Mosely gone the WSC is open to the influence of Bernie and Todt - both of whom agree with team orders.

I think we could see the rule significantly modified which considers the circumstances such as we saw in Germany.

[motetarip]

If there's a lesson all the teams should learn from Ferrari and McLaren debacles it's that they should remember what they said on the radio during the race and get their stories straight before talking to the stewards! I've seen better criminal masterminds at work :s mokin:

[Saint Devote]

If there's a lesson all the teams should learn from Ferrari and McLaren debacles it's that they should remember what they said on the radio during the race and get their stories straight before talking to the stewards! I've seen better criminal masterminds at work :s mokin:

Assuming they want to disguise it. Stupid rules or regulations should be ignored.

Ferrari led by Luca is courageous and powerful enough to lead the way.

In terms of Hockenheim exactly WHAT can the FIA do? Overturn the result and proceed to wreck f1? Bernie and Todt will not permit that.

Ferrari have become excellent at hegemony :D

[Mia 01]

The WMSC will throw the book at Ferrari, they drag the sport in disrepute.

That´s leaves Seb and Mark competing for the title.

[Tazio]

The WMSC will throw the book at Ferrari, they drag the sport in disrepute.

That´s leaves Seb and Mark competing for the title.

spoken by the same chap that thinks two new engines are only good for two races!
Would you like to make a bet on the outcome of the meeting?

[Mia 01]

spoken by the same chap that thinks two new engines are only good for two races!
Would you like to make a bet on the outcome of the meeting?

For each event an engine is loosing a bit of the top notch power and also being moore unreliable.

The second question. I want it to be a suprise.

[Tazio]

For each event an engine is loosing a bit of the top notch power and also being moore unreliable.

The second question. I want it to be a suprise.This is true. However on the face of it could you tell which number of races each engine being used had on it at the last race? For one reason or another cars are on a different sequence. I sure can't. The engines are rev limited for the reason of making a set number last the entire season without penalty. I know there is an easy resource to find out. But I don't know what it is. I had asked for a link to this sight but for whatever reason nobody wanted to supply it upon my request. I had only a suspicion that Fred was on his third at Hungary, because of two subtle hints that Stefano D. gave, and one comment Fred made. Hungary is hard track on engines, and I was very concerned that Fred's was going to expire. I am still going on your word that he has two unused lumps. If it comes down to the last race with Alonso even or close to it with another pilot that didn't have any major problems with engines during the course of the season they will have a distinct advantage as they may well have saved one lump for the last race. However they still cannot increase the revs only race on the max without concern for the next race. In the unlikely event that Fred has a large lead Ferrari may just opt to change the lump and take the penalty rather than risk using an engine that has had three races on it. Neither option is very appealing but like I stated earlier, manageable!

[Retro Formula 1]

The drivers entered in the 2010 Formula One Championship have used the below listed
number of new engines during this season up to now:
Number Car Driver New engines used so far

01 McLaren Mercedes Jenson Button 5
02 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 5
03 Mercedes Benz Michael Schumacher 5
04 Mercedes Benz Nico Rosberg 5
05 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 6
06 RBR Renault Mark Webber 5
07 Ferrari Felipe Massa 6
08 Ferrari Fernando Alonso 6
09 Williams Cosworth Rubens Barrichello 5
10 Williams Cosworth Nico Hülkenberg 5
11 Renault Robert Kubica 5
12 Renault Vitaly Pertrov 4
14 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 5
15 Force India Mercedes Vitantonio Liuzzi 5
16 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 5
17 STR Ferrari Jaime Alguersuari 5
18 Lotus Cosworth Jarno Trulli 5
19 Lotus Cosworth Heikki Kovalainen 5
20 HRT Cosworth Karun Chandhok 5
21 HRT Cosworth Bruno Senna 5
22 BMW Sauber Ferrari Pedro De La Rosa 7
23 BMW Sauber Ferrari Kamui Kobayashi 5
24 Virgin Cosworth Timo Glock 5
25 Virgin Cosworth Lucas Di Grassi 5

[Tazio]

The drivers entered in the 2010 Formula One Championship have used the below listed
number of new engines during this season up to now:
Number Car Driver New engines used so far

01 McLaren Mercedes Jenson Button 5
02 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 5
03 Mercedes Benz Michael Schumacher 5
04 Mercedes Benz Nico Rosberg 5
05 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 6
06 RBR Renault Mark Webber 5
07 Ferrari Felipe Massa 6
08 Ferrari Fernando Alonso 6
09 Williams Cosworth Rubens Barrichello 5
10 Williams Cosworth Nico Hülkenberg 5
11 Renault Robert Kubica 5
12 Renault Vitaly Pertrov 4
14 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 5
15 Force India Mercedes Vitantonio Liuzzi 5
16 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 5
17 STR Ferrari Jaime Alguersuari 5
18 Lotus Cosworth Jarno Trulli 5
19 Lotus Cosworth Heikki Kovalainen 5
20 HRT Cosworth Karun Chandhok 5
21 HRT Cosworth Bruno Senna 5
22 BMW Sauber Ferrari Pedro De La Rosa 7
23 BMW Sauber Ferrari Kamui Kobayashi 5
24 Virgin Cosworth Timo Glock 5
25 Virgin Cosworth Lucas Di Grassi 5

Thanks sKc. :up:
In the immortal words of Valve (KnuckleSandwhich) Bounce.
May I have the Link Please!!! :s ailor: :laugh: :bounce:

[Retro Formula 1]

Thanks sKc. :up:
In the immortal words of Valve (KnuckleSandwhich) Bounce.
May I have the Link Please!!! :s ailor: :laugh: :bounce:

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/home_page.aspx

You want post race info and then Tech report. Usually a good read.

[Tazio]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/home_page.aspx

You want post race info and then Tech report. Usually a good read.

Thanks bro :up: :)