Nationwide Nimrods

[71Fan]

Since I can't call them Buschwackers anymore, how about Nationwide Nimrods? Take them out of the mix and the standings look like this....

4 -1 Justin Allgaier 2833 -516 21 1 1 5 12

7 -- Steve Wallace 2488 -861 21 0 0 1 10
8 +1 Trevor Bayne 2365 -984 21 3 0 4 6
9 -1 Brendan Gaughan 2347 -1002 21 0 0 3 7
10 -- Jason Leffler 2326 -1023 21 0 0 4 7
11 +3 Michael Annett 2225 -1124 21 0 0 0 2
12 +1 Brian Scott* 2176 -1173 21 0 0 1 5
13 -2 Reed Sorenson 2167 -1182 16 0 0 6 12
14 +1 Tony Raines 2117 -1232 21 0 0 0 2

16 -- Mike Bliss 1937 -1412 20 0 0 1 2
17 +1 Kenny Wallace 1904 -1445 21 0 0 0 0
18 -1 Mike Wallace 1895 -1454 21 0 0 0 0
19 -- Ricky Stenhouse Jr.* 1799 -1550 19 0 0 1 3

21 +1 Michael McDowell 1706 -1643 20 0 0 0 0
22 -2 Eric McClure 1644 -1705 20 0 0 0 0
23 -- Colin Braun* 1603 -1746 16 0 0 0 3
24 -- Jason Keller 1586 -1763 17 0 0 1 1
25 +2 Josh Wise 1440 -1909 18 0 0 0 1

27 -1 Scott Lagasse Jr. 1328 -2021 14 0 0 0 1
28 -- Shelby Howard 1318 -2031 13 0 0 0 0
29 -- Robert Richardson Jr. 1271 -2078 15 0 0 0 0
30 -- Morgan Shepherd 1180 -2169 17 0 0 0 0
31 +2 Brian Keselowski 1099 -2250 17 0 0 0 0
32 -1 Willie Allen 1080 -2269 12 0 0 0 0

34 -- Mark Green 993 -2356 18 0 0 0 0
35 -- James Buescher* 903 -2446 10 0 0 0 1

Point is, I think it's fine to have a couple Nationwide Nimrods in the mix. But, I do not think any full time Cupster should be allowed to take points towards the driver championship. And I *really* like the idea of making them start in the back.

Your opinions and mileage may vary

[edv]

They are a necessary evil - needed for ticket sales and TV ratings and PR...so they will not disappear anytime soon.

Maybe make 2 championships out of it..a Double Duty Prize and the N'wide Prize, plus Rookie O T Y.

[harvick#1]

let'em race, but not allow them to collect points, its a disgrace to autoracing

its like F1 drivers going down to the GP2 series for S&G

[call_me_andrew]

They are a necessary evil - needed for ticket sales and TV ratings and PR...so they will not disappear anytime soon.

Yeah, that's why Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Randy Moss, Miles Austin, Chris Johnson, and Jared Allen have been playing in the Arena Football League this year.

[Lee Roy]

Geez guys, it's a race. Anyone can enter.

[71Fan]

Sure they can Lee Roy.

But dig this....the big dog owners had their little meeting on how to keep cost down. They complained about drivers, over the wall guys, and traveling mechanics taking all their money. Funny is that from what I gather, it was invitation only. So anyways, the big dogs bitch about 10 mill drivers while beating the crap out of guys who can barely afford tires. How's that for ironic?

Point is, the big dogs would just as soon see anybody who isn't in their league go away. Well, that's fine. So why not have a league for the little guys? Oh, that's right. They do. It's called Nationwide.

[Lee Roy]

So why not have a league for the little guys? Oh, that's right. They do. It's called Nationwide.

The Nationwide, or Busch, or "Grand National" or "Sportsman" series has always been open to whoever wanted to race. Sorry if you're just discovering NASCAR.

[Jonesi]

If they really want to cut down on drivers running both series on the same weekend, they just have to schedule the Cup drivers meeting at the same time as the NW race.

[71Fan]

The Nationwide, or Busch, or "Grand National" or "Sportsman" series has always been open to whoever wanted to race. Sorry if you're just discovering NASCAR.

Ahhh Lee Roy.....I worked on a buddy's car for Sportsman's races way back when at Riverside. Please don't talk down to me like I just turned on the tv last week.

Meanwhile.....Seems I'm a couple weeks late in checking the rumor mill.....

from Jayski's

NASCAR to limit number of NNS races for Cup drivers; change schedule? Speaking of the Nationwide Series, teams were told in private meetings this week a change to keep Cup drivers from competing for a championship there is virtually assured for 2011. The most likely idea will be a hard cap on the amount of races drivers can compete in elsewhere in NASCAR if they're inside the top-35 in Cup points, rigidly defining a sort of minor-to-major league system. But another interesting option being discussed is making six races on the schedule virtually impossible for Cup drivers to travel to, either putting them on the same day at different tracks or creating more standalone races over 2,000 miles apart each weekend.(Sports Illustrated)(7-22-2010)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I can't see Sports Illustrated reporting something that isn't at least semi-true. And all I can say is it's about time...even if I am two weeks behind in finding something that sorta confirms the rumor.

As you can probably guess, I am really glad they are going to do something. At least the championship will be beyond the grasp of the Nimrods. Now if only they would cap the number of Nimrods per race at 2 or 3 ( or eliminate them altogether) make em start in the back, and not allow them any purse money, I might be really, really, really happy about it. As it is, I'm only really happy about it.

But hey, it's a start. And who knows, Podunk High might just beat the Yankees more often than not next year. Something that hasn't happened in years.....Go Podunk!!!!!

[Lee Roy]

I think it's a mistake. Without the "star-power" of the Cup drivers the "Nationwide" series will decline in status to the point that it may not exist, at least in it's current state. Many of it's stand alone races (that is, not paired with a Cup race) have failed.

The days when it was a part time touring series for the NASCAR Sportsman Class regulars are long gone.

[Mark in Oshawa]

NASCAR allows the Cup guys to compete unfettered because they want people to watch the NW series. The series when it had only one or two casual Cup drivers showing up to race (often Mark Martin or the occasional Dale Earnhardt sighting) didn't have a network TV contract, race in front of often empty stands and were a sideshow at best.

NASCAR makes more money off this series now in relation to the Cup series then they did 15 years ago. So they are going to be REALLY careful about restricting Cup drivers.

I think if the Cup guys made up there mind to not run this series full time, we are not having this conversation, but when you have Harvick, Logano Edwards and Busch showing up week after week...well...it is a double edged sword, and I am sure some in Daytona Beach would wish they took a few more days off voluntarily...

[call_me_andrew]

I think it's a mistake. Without the "star-power" of the Cup drivers the "Nationwide" series will decline in status to the point that it may not exist, at least in it's current state. Many of it's stand alone races (that is, not paired with a Cup race) have failed.

Yes, that's why the Modified Tours, Grand National East & West, Canadian Tire, and Mexico series have all ceased to exist.

[Jonesi]

Yes, that's why the Modified Tours, Grand National East & West, Canadian Tire, and Mexico series have all ceased to exist.

Your sarcasm doesn't really add anything to the discussion. The problem is scale of expenses & income.

NW series forces teams to travel across the country for 35 races a year. Top teams have budgets of $5-7mil even mid pack need $2-3mil a year. The race purses are $1-2mil of which TV contributes about $500k per race.

Those regional series have 12-18? races with a much shorter tow. Teams are probably running on $200-300k budgets (if they don't wreck a car) and purses can't be more than $50-70k, and there's limited or no TV coverage. (Last time I saw a Winston West payout it was under $20k, but that was years ago.)

[NickFalzone]

It really does come down to $$. Or you could call it greed. NASCAR makes a lot more money off the series, and the series is more successful, with the Cup drivers in cars. Yes, perhaps they could give the series more legitimacy by keeping "Major League" drivers from playing in triple-A ballgames, but that would severely hurt the attendance and tv-numbers. As long as Nwide races were paired on weekends w/ Cup races, I still think they would do OK numbers for attendance. The TV numbers would be more adversely affected. Personally, I like the show as-is. But I agree that I like it more for entertainment value than as a show of the best up-and-comers in a race to win.

[Lee Roy]

We all wish we could jump into the way-back machine and see latter day LD Ottingers and Jack Ingrams going door-handle to door-handle with Greg Biffle and Kyle Busch, but it just isn't going to happen.

[Lee Roy]

Yes, that's why the Modified Tours, Grand National East & West, Canadian Tire, and Mexico series have all ceased to exist.

If we have all these wonderful series for up and coming drivers, why then do we want to change the Nationwide Series?

[call_me_andrew]

If we have all these wonderful series for up and coming drivers, why then do we want to change the Nationwide Series?

So the up-and-commers can compete in a national series.

[Oli_M]

But they can!

I think having the cup drivers really helps the Nationwide series AND the drivers. Look at the likes at the top now - Allgaier and Bayne etc. If they weren't out there racing against Edwards, Brad, Kyle etc, you'd sit here wondering just how good they really are. This way, they get to race - and beat - some of the cup guys, sponsors really take notice of that as they try to move up to the top level. Surely that's a good thing? Or do you not want to see any of these guys getting into Cup full time because teams/sponsors don't know really just "how good" they are and don't want to take a gamble with someone who maybe has won every Nationwide race but as soon as you see him head-to-head with a Cup guy, he's no where?

I can understand people probably don't want to see Cup drivers keep winning the Nationwide series, but think of how much racing against them helps the development of the NW stars.

[harvick#1]

I think it's a mistake. Without the "star-power" of the Cup drivers the "Nationwide" series will decline in status to the point that it may not exist, at least in it's current state. Many of it's stand alone races (that is, not paired with a Cup race) have failed.

The days when it was a part time touring series for the NASCAR Sportsman Class regulars are long gone.

I find this wrong, I believe the cup drivers have hurt the series more. and since Toyota and Gibbs has such a huge advantage on the field, I'm sure thats a small turn off for fans.

they could be tired of the same faces every week, its a double standard but the stand alone races where Harvick, Busch, and others dont race do produce better racing because the guys that are getting a huge chance to race make the most of it, case in point Gilliland made the most out of his win at Kentucky a few years back upsetting everyone

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yes, that's why the Modified Tours, Grand National East & West, Canadian Tire, and Mexico series have all ceased to exist.

And they are regional only. NW has a national TV contract with ESPN/ABC. There is your answer why things wont change much...

[speedsville]

Since I can't call them Buschwackers anymore, how about Nationwide Nimrods? Take them out of the mix and the standings look like this....

***
35 -- James Buescher* 903 -2446 10 0 0 0 1

Point is, I think it's fine to have a couple Nationwide Nimrods in the mix. But, I do not think any full time Cupster should be allowed to take points towards the driver championship. And I *really* like the idea of making them start in the back.

Your opinions and mileage may vary

You realize that Nimrod was a great hunter, which maybe does fit.
But I agree that; "let 'em run but no points"
3 races in; a driver must choose if he wants Sprint points or NW points.

[NaBUru38]

Without the "star-power" of the Cup drivers the "Nationwide" series will decline in status to the point that it may not exist, at least in it's current state.
That's the point: some want Nationwide and Trucks to be development series, where young drivers (18-24 years I guess) get experience at powerful cars and Cup tracks, and look for sponsors to jump to the Cup.

[Mark in Oshawa]

That's the point: some want Nationwide and Trucks to be development series, where young drivers (18-24 years I guess) get experience at powerful cars and Cup tracks, and look for sponsors to jump to the Cup.

No, that's what YOU think it should be. It is the myth NASCAR likes to peddle on occasion, but the fact is they like the TV contract this series pays them and they like filling seats.

Don't look for any changes any time soon...

[call_me_andrew]

While the subject of star-power is up, how many million viewers does Danica bring to the Nationwide Series?

[Lee Roy]

While the subject of star-power is up, how many million viewers does Danica bring to the Nationwide Series?

Danica Patrick is a joke, just like the series she's coming over from. NASCAR fans aren't as easily taken in as the fans of that series are.

[Mark in Oshawa]

While the subject of star-power is up, how many million viewers does Danica bring to the Nationwide Series?

It did in the beginning, but as Lee Roy stated, NASCAR fans will want results.

Of course, Lee Roy uses his point to take a gratitious shot at OW racing, and that is just Lee Roy being a hater. HE hates Indycar racing, but he keeps posting about it...so I think it is an unrequitted love.

That said, on Danica, I am with ya Lee Roy, I never thought thought she had much talent to start with; and going to NASCAR wasn't her smartest move....

[NickFalzone]

NASCAR fans aren't as easily taken in as the fans of that series are.

LOL.

And don't confuse the issue. It's been a long time since OW fans were "taken" with Danica. Maybe a year or two, when she began racing at Indy. The "easily impressed" are those at ABC/ESPN who have been singing her praises as the "next great thing" for going-on half a decade now, with not much to show for it results-wise. You'd think that after TV-ratings declining, year after year, that they would come to realize that the Danica love-fest is not making the "show" better. But they are too lazy, naive, and ignorant to make that connection.

[call_me_andrew]

It did in the beginning, but as Lee Roy stated, NASCAR fans will want results.

Then how do you explain all the Junior fans?

[slorydn1]

Jayski is reporting that NASCAR has put the kabosh on any Chase for the Nationwide series, at least for the time being. Being that I hate the chase now, as it is, I don't have a problem with that.

However, when asked the question, this was the idiot-in-chief's response:


"I don't think so. It's a shorter season, for starters with 10 fewer races or so. That would create some issues," France said. "We have four national divisions, so we've got to distinguish them and doing too many things wouldn't do that. I don't think you'll see that."

Ahh, ummmm, ehhhhhhhh Mr Chairman, the last time I checked the Nationwide Series had 35 points races, possibly dropping to 34 next season.

So either A) you are planning to expand the Cup schedule to 45-46 events, or B) you are just an imbecile who can't count or.........

C) You know something else that you weren't supposed to let slip....I guess the owners got together last week and started whining that schedule is "too long" <whiney voice> and you are planning on shortening the Nationwide Schedule in future years?

I'll choose B....

[Lee Roy]

LOL.

And don't confuse the issue. It's been a long time since OW fans were "taken" with Danica. Maybe a year or two, when she began racing at Indy.

But they were "taken in", something I haven't seen with NASCAR fans. I think that IRL fans were more excited at the expectation that Danica Patrick would finally get their favorite series some recognition.

[Lee Roy]

Then how do you explain all the Junior fans?

Son of one of the most popular drivers of all time. He used to win races and be a threat for the championship at one time, something that Danica Patrick has not proven to be capable of.

[call_me_andrew]

Son of one of the most popular drivers of all time. He used to win races and be a threat for the championship at one time, something that Danica Patrick has not proven to be capable of.

Since 2008, Junior has won 2 out of 114 races (Cup and Nationwide combined). That is 1.754%.

In that same time, Danica Patrick has won 1 out of 53 races (ARCA Remax, Nationwide, and IndyCar combined). That's 1.886%.

By this metric, Danica is a slightly better driver. Maybe those results don't really matter.

[Alexamateo]

You know Andrew, Richard Petty still has tons of fans now and he hasn't won since 1984, but his body of work consists of 205 wins (200 cup, 1 convertible, 1 USAC (Pocono 1973) and 3 Winston west. plus a Daytona Qualifier or two)

Dale Jr's body of work consists of 41 pro wins (18 Cup, 23 Busch/Nationwide, plus numerous qualifier, shootouts, and an All-Star win.)

Danica has two wins at pro level, Motegi in Indycars, and the Toyota pro-am at Long Beach.

They don't compare, you're arguing just to argue.

[TURN3]

Danica has two wins at pro level, Motegi in Indycars, and the Toyota pro-am at Long Beach.

You're actually counting an exhibition race with amatuers and celebrities where she was given a head start? Come on, that is grasping. LOL. Your point is well stated though.

[Lee Roy]

They don't compare, you're arguing just to argue.

Yep.

[jeffconn]

The Nationwide series isn't the developmental series that it used to be. The up-and-comers do need to go against the best drivers, but the situation in Speedweek when almost half the field are Cup regulars is ridiculous. Nationwide series should be open to all-comers, with some restrictions:

1. All drivers in the Cup Top 35 should have to qualify on time. No provisionals, and they have to qualify with the go-or-go-home cars. If there is a rainout, then the cuppers are subject to the non-provisional rainout rules, just like the other cars not in the Nationwide Top 30.
2. There needs to be more standalone races. In the new schedule, 26 of 34 races are Cup/Nationwide doubleheader weekends. More travel for the cup drivers would mean less Cuppers making the effort, and more Nationwide hopefuls get to race. Besides, a truck/Nationwide doubleheader could draw rather well for folks who can't afford a full Cup weekend, and those junkies who need another weekend of NASCAR racing every year.
3. Every team owner has a limit of one Nationwide car with a Cup driver. For instance, Roush could still run the #60 and #98 cars every week, but only one car (per race) could be driven by a Top 35 Cupper. The other cars must be driven by a non-cupper. Some cuppers would have to use other (non-Cup) team owners or maybe even start their own Nationwide teams.

My provisions would still allow a Cup driver to do double duty every weekend, therefore keeping the interest of the Cup drivers' fans. And a run for both titles is still possible. More Nationwide regulars would get more seat time, and more experience. YMMV.

[Mark in Oshawa]

But they were "taken in", something I haven't seen with NASCAR fans. I think that IRL fans were more excited at the expectation that Danica Patrick would finally get their favorite series some recognition.

No...most of us cannot stand her actually...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Then how do you explain all the Junior fans?

Junior has a body of work that at least qualifies him to have a fan base. Two championships, Daytona win, winner at Bristol, runs well at Martinsville...Wins at Talladega......so he has has a resume. Has he sucked the last few years? Yes...and no...still is a threat to make the Chase, so it isnt like he is on the Michael Waltrip retirement tour level of finishes.

Danica wouldn't have 80% of the fans she has if she looked like an old boot.

No one has a massive fan base based on winning one professional race.... (sorry, Long Beach celeb race doesn't count)

[Alexamateo]

.

No one has a massive fan base based on winning one professional race.... (sorry, Long Beach celeb race doesn't count)

LOL, I was just trying to give her some credit. :p Technically, she didn't win that race either, she was just the top finishing professional, beating out Tommy Kendall and Sarah Fisher. Dara Torres, the swimmer won the race, of course they get quite a bit of a head start.

[Mark in Oshawa]

LOL, I was just trying to give her some credit. :p Technically, she didn't win that race either, she was just the top finishing professional, beating out Tommy Kendall and Sarah Fisher. Dara Torres, the swimmer won the race, of course they get quite a bit of a head start.

The fact she beat Sarah and Tommy Kendall I find a bit amusing....I think Tommy on a bad day should mop the floor with Danica, but that is just me remembering his winning 10 races in a row in Trans AM....

I think Tommy was just having fun...lol...

Danica doesn't deserve credit for things she hasn't done, like compete for a race win where there isnt' a fuel mileage game in play...

Lets face it, she has never won a race where she had to take it away from someone else on the track. NEVER...

Not that I am accusing you of being a huge fan Alex...lol

[harvick#1]

Danica doesn't deserve credit for things she hasn't done, like compete for a race win where there isnt' a fuel mileage game in play...

Lets face it, she has never won a race where she had to take it away from someone else on the track. NEVER...


she tried in Texas and Briscoe put the hammer down in the end compared to Danica when the money was on the table.

as for the Jooyner fans, he gained nearly 70% of his Sr.'s fans after his passing. Harvick took the other 30 or so. thats mainly it, fans see the name and like him, but as for his racing, he doesnt seem to care anymore when he races.

[call_me_andrew]

as for the Jooyner fans, he gained nearly 70% of his Sr.'s fans after his passing. Harvick took the other 30 or so. thats mainly it, fans see the name and like him, but as for his racing, he doesnt seem to care anymore when he races.

Senior fans are also unpredictable. When he was alive, Senior was polarizing, but if you ask the average fan today you would think that he was bigger than Jesus.

[Lee Roy]

Senior fans are also unpredictable. When he was alive, Senior was polarizing, but if you ask the average fan today you would think that he was bigger than Jesus.


You're mistaking being a "fan of Senior" with recognizing Senior's record and impact on the sport.

[call_me_andrew]

NASCAR.com is still selling Senior merchandise (with the merchandise for other drivers) almost 10 years after his death.

They do not sell Richard Petty merchandise.

[Sparky1329]

You're mistaking being a "fan of Senior" with recognizing Senior's record and impact on the sport.

+1

[Alexamateo]

NASCAR.com is still selling Senior merchandise (with the merchandise for other drivers) almost 10 years after his death.

They do not sell Richard Petty merchandise.
:confused:

http://store.nascar.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=1247813

[call_me_andrew]

I see what you did there. You clicked the "shop by driver" button. That's something of a misominor, that section includes merchandise for Bill France Sr. and Digger who are decidedly not drivers.

My point is that Senior's number is on display at the top of the screen with the active drivers. He's right between Danica Patrick and Joey Logano. Richard Petty is not on that list.

[Alexamateo]

Instead of trying to defend your point to the nth degree, The proper response from you in this case should be "Touché!" :D :p :)

[Lee Roy]

Instead of trying to defend your point to the nth degree, The proper response from you in this case should be "Touché!" :D :p :)

Al, don't hold your breath.

[speedsville]

NASCAR.com is still selling Senior merchandise (with the merchandise for other drivers) almost 10 years after his death.

They do not sell Richard Petty merchandise.


Richard's bad form not to get himself killed while racing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

she tried in Texas and Briscoe put the hammer down in the end compared to Danica when the money was on the table.

as for the Jooyner fans, he gained nearly 70% of his Sr.'s fans after his passing. Harvick took the other 30 or so. thats mainly it, fans see the name and like him, but as for his racing, he doesnt seem to care anymore when he races.

Like you have had a chat with Junior?

Sometimes, wishing something is so doesn't MAKE it so. I doubt Junior is any less motivated now than he was 5 years ago. He isn't his dad...so where is this a crime?

[Mark in Oshawa]

AS for this assertion they don't sell Richard Petty stuff and they sell Senior stuff....well hey, it just means Theresa has found ways to keep the name out there and good for her. Richard Petty sells his likeness and endorsements because he is still around to do it....and he picks and chooses. To each, their own....

Do NOT mess with the King or disrespect what he did for this sport. There is no Dale Earnhardt as a national figure in the way he was if Richard Petty wasn't sitting there week after week signing an endless line up of autographs and always being so giving of his time....he built this sport..and you would have no argument I am sure from Dale Earnhardt had he not been lost to us.

[tstran17_88]

let'em race, but not allow them to collect points, its a disgrace to autoracing

its like F1 drivers going down to the GP2 series for S&GI'd still let them collect the owner's points. Otherwise it would be like watching Talladega Nights out there.

[BobbyC]

Of course, King Richard at 73 is still marketing. He's part of the Ford "43 Fiestas" campaign.

And these drivers have a name: Claim Jumpers. (Nationwide Insurance) Larry McReyolds uses the name.