Donkey of the Race?

[steveaki13]

I think there maybe only one winner here.

[christophulus]

(Dis)honorable mention for Schumacher for trying to justify what Ferrari did :down:

[Dave B]

Ferrari. They had a 1-2 there for the taking, but insisted on ruining the race by issuing blatent team orders.

Possible honourable mention to Force India for the entire weekend.

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel.

Stop botching the damn start kid!

[UltimateDanGTR]

Vettel.

Stop botching the damn start kid!

true. sitting on the grid for too long is supposed to risk overheating the car, but with seb at the moment it's the drivers head that has done the overheating.....

[Ent]

Alguersuari for me. Runs up the back of his team-mate on the first lap and takes off Buemi's rear wing. How to upset your team in one easy step...

No complaints about Vettel chopping across the track at the start yet? Oops, I forgot. It's only chopping if certain drivers do it, but not when others do. Ahh, you can almost smell the hypocrisy.

[ioan]

Ferrari hands down, followed by Alonso for complaining that Massa dared to race him.

[Koz]

Alonso for being a little pussy asshole and resorting to this pathetic bull****.
Ferrari for ruining a grand race with blatant team orders when nothing was at stake.
And Massa for being a team player, his career is over if he stays at Ferrari. This is not the same as letting Kimi with the last race in 2007, this isn't close. This wasn't teamwork, this was crap.

[truefan72]

alonso by a mile it was "ridiculous"

[Robinho]

Ferrari and Alonso for the move, Massa for taking it and Smedley for his world record 100m in reverse act. Bull

[Koz]

Also, I will add, the asshole reporters for raping Massa for the cameras after he said "there's nothing to say" (or something along those lines) I wanted to punch that asshat.

[donKey jote]

Smedley :Vader: :laugh:
oh and Vettel for losing 2 places at the start

[rohanweb]

Alonso for being a little pussy asshole and resorting to this pathetic bull****.
Ferrari for ruining a grand race with blatant team orders when nothing was at stake.
And Massa for being a team player, his career is over if he stays at Ferrari. This is not the same as letting Kimi with the last race in 2007, this isn't close. This wasn't teamwork, this was crap.

well said !

[Wasted Talent]

Alonso for being a little pussy asshole and resorting to this pathetic bull****.
Ferrari for ruining a grand race with blatant team orders when nothing was at stake.
And Massa for being a team player, his career is over if he stays at Ferrari. This is not the same as letting Kimi with the last race in 2007, this isn't close. This wasn't teamwork, this was crap.

Agree 100% apart from the last bit - Massa has no choice - if he didn't let Alonso through he would be out of the team.......

Alonso couldn't take a competitive team-mate at McLaren, what a baby....

WT

[rohanweb]

Alonso,Massa,smedley,Domenicali,luca di marshmallow and all those great champions flag waving bandwagen.. F1 was big joke today

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari hands down, followed by Alonso for complaining that Massa dared to race him.

What did the **** say?

I only saw parts of the race, not the whole race.

[Dave B]

What did the **** say?

I only saw parts of the race, not the whole race.
He caught up with Massa when the Brazillian was on cold tyres. He attempted a pass but was thwarted, then whined "this is rediculous" on the radio. A few laps later, the phone call came and Alonso got what he wanted without having to work for it.

[Koz]

What did the **** say?

I only saw parts of the race, not the whole race.

"Ridiculous" I believe is what ioan refers to.

[HoldenCaulfield]

Alonso for throwing his toys out of the pram when someone dared to race him. I think he would prefer it if they just gave him the winners trophy on the Friday and didn't bother with the races at all. Second, Ferrari for developing a bad case of Alonso-itis

[PSfan]

My Donkeys: Vettel (even though he's on my fav drivers list) for the schuemy chop at the start...

Also Alguesuari deserves mention for taking out his team-mate...

[Langdale Forest]

Everyone who has invollvement with Ferrari, all donkeys this afternoon...

[CaptainRaiden]

Alonso for his "This is ridiculous" comment. I can't believe this guy dares to call himself a "racer".

Ferrari for once again demonstrating it's the dirtiest team on the grid.

Domenicali for just being Fugly.

[Langdale Forest]

Alonso and Ferrari, well that's not very good...

[RMLCruzeing82]

oooo boy here we go again. Ferrari thinking there above the rule book and Massa has to play second fiddle at Ferrari :rolleyes: :o hplease: :look: :fasttalk: its a joke :rotflmao:

[Mia 01]

I would exept Rob Smedely, he was forced and made the whole mess obvious for the fans.

[VkmSpouge]

Mine would be Jaime Alguersuari, taking out his team mate on lap one and ruining his own race in the process.

[ioan]

Mine would be Jaime Alguersuari, taking out his team mate on lap one and ruining his own race in the process.

Can you imagine him and Buemi fighting over this incident after the race?! :D

[Mia 01]

Alonso and HIS team.

[Saint Devote]

Vettel, Massa and Smedley.

[Bradley]

My Donkeys: Vettel (even though he's on my fav drivers list) for the schuemy chop at the start...

That's the second race in a row Vettel does so :down:

Now that finally AND Hamilton AND Schumacher are getting rid of their dirty manners.

[F1boat]

Vettel. His chopping is unacceptable, his starts poor.

[Jag_Warrior]

Vettel.

Stop botching the damn start kid!

In light of what Ferrari did, I almost forgot that Vettel was on pole and it was his race to lose... which he did in typical Red Bull style.

It's really close, but I might have to tell Ferrari to move over and let Vettel pass them for the Donkey of the Race award.

[JRodrigues]

Alonso for his ridiculous comment on the radio, and Domenicalli for his ridiculous decision (yet another one)

[PSfan]

That's the second race in a row Vettel does so :down:

Now that finally AND Hamilton AND Schumacher are getting rid of their dirty manners.

Well, I had seen accusations, but after watching the replays decided that at least as far as an attempt to chop Webber, both drivers met close to mid of the track...

[Mia 01]

Theres a need to sack all in F1 exept alonso and one ferarri, no whining and no cheating then.

[CNR]

to me vettel starts are starting to look dangerous

this need a donkey
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/racing/McLaren-boss-warns-Hamilton-not-to-wreck-F1-career/articleshow/6213701.cms

Martin Whitmarsh fears some managers will try to corrupt the sporting superstar and stop him becoming the greatest grand prix driver in history.

[donKey jote]

Theres a need to sack all in F1 exept alonso and one ferarri, no whining and no cheating then.
that would mean no whiners on the forums either... boooring, we might have to get on with it and get a life :p :dozey:

[CNR]

http://i30.tinypic.com/5nvi4n.png

[Mia 01]

They will get moore, much moore.

[Ari]

Alonso for being ridiculous.

I am SO upset. Being a Ferrari fan I would love to enjoy a 1 2 but I can't. It was tarnished.

Mention to Vettel for pushing Alonso into the wall off the line.

[keysersoze]

Of course, Ferrari could have let them duke it out and have only one driver finish, like Webber-Vettel in Turkey.

If Sebastian hadn't pinched Fernando at the start, Felipe wouldn't have been P1 to begin with.

I'm OK with how things went down, but Smedley and Massa could have tried to make it seem as if FM's tires were going off, or something. Thing is, they were quite blatant about the "changeover," hence the outrage here.

[wmcot]

Vettel - for giving the race away before the first corner. Without that move there wouldn't be much to complain about since the Ferrari 1-2 probably wouldn't have happened.

Close second - all the naive posters who believed that there were no team orders before today. I hate to ruin it for them, but there's no Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny either...

[AJP]

Beiber - for throwing away his race from pole again...

Alonso - for being an absolute k nob...ridiculous

Massa - for actually letting it happen (no - I don't know what is in his contract. But I doubt this sort of racing was what he signed up for)

Ferrari - Shame, shame, shame....

[Hondo]

Vettel, for forcing Ferrari to imply team suggestions and for temporarily confusing Hamilton and Button "what's he (vettel) doing back here with us?" during the start.

[SGWilko]

I hate to ruin it for them, but there's no Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny either...

Oh stop that, next you'll claim there is no Santa.....

[Ent]

Of course, Ferrari could have let them duke it out and have only one driver finish, like Webber-Vettel in Turkey.

Or like Hamilton and Button in Turkey? I recall they had a great wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead without taking each other out. The difference was that they knew they were racing. The Vettel-Webber incident happened because one driver thought he had 1st driver privilege and thought the other would move out of the way. McLaren have shown how it should be done.

My God! I think I've just shown respect for McLaren. I must be ill! Still... credit should be given when deserved.

[ShiftingGears]

Or like Hamilton and Button in Turkey? I recall they had a great wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead without taking each other out. The difference was that they knew they were racing. The Vettel-Webber incident happened because one driver thought he had 1st driver privilege and thought the other would move out of the way. McLaren have shown how it should be done.

The reason the McLaren duo were duelling in Turkey was because of miscommunication in the first place! Not to mention that the drivers were too close in points for any team order besides "hold station" to be implemented.

Ferrari needed to do what they did in Germany to give themselves the best chance of winning the WDC for one of their drivers.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari needed to do what they did in Germany to give themselves the best chance of winning the WDC for one of their drivers.
Alonso headed Massa by 31pts going to Germany. There are 25pts available for a win so that's not a big margin, but perhaps there's something in the drivers contracts.

Perhaps the driver with most points at the halfway point of the season gets the favoured driver treatment and this was the first race where that clause came into force. Alonso did seem rather stressed during the European & British GP weekends :p

[gloomyDAY]

Bieber! I had no clue who that was until Google helped me a bit.

Time to change my signature.

[Bagwan]

Of course there's "something in the contracts" .

It's "do what your told" , or you are in breach .
Massa did what he was told , and then got all pissy about it , spurred on by his pissy engineer .

There is honour in being the team player , and rear gunner for the guy with the best chance .
Some of the best have played that role .

All Felipe really achieved was to get his team fined .
Everyone knew it was team orders . There still would have been the same debate .

And , this sentimental hogwash about the anniversary of his brush with death in the spring incident doesn't win championships when the anniversary coincides with a moment in time that he is 30 points behind . That's more than a race worth of points .
It wasn't as if he would get enough that he would be the points leader and thus achieve number one status within his team .


But , in the end , the donkey of this race and every other race since they "banned" team orders , is the FIA .
They are present , and they are necessary .

And , everybody knows it , including "Felipe baby" .

He's a sorry little mouse .
And , don't dive at me for criticizing his character whilst not knowing him .
I've met him , and he was a sorry little mouse then , too .

[gloomyDAY]

He's a sorry little mouse .
And , don't dive at me for criticizing his character whilst not knowing him .
I've met him , and he was a sorry little mouse then , too . :crazy:

Where did you meet Felipe? Some autograph signing that hardly any drivers like to attend? I'm not sure why you have to attack his character because I do agree with you that he just had to do his job. Ferrari just made a mistake on how team orders were handled.

[Bagwan]

Dinner party at the Canadian GP in 04 .

I happen to employ a few people , and I know how disruptive it can be when all aren't pulling in the same direction .

This wasn't mis-handled by Ferrari at all .

They gave the order , and , although the order was followed , it was done in such a way that it was not seen as honourable at all , but rather , that he was a victim .
For any of my employees to pout as Felipe did , at treatment easily seen as in the logical best interests of the team , I would have to think very seriously about how badly they want to work for me .

[gloomyDAY]

I don't think Massa was the victim either, just in Ferrari's best interest to put their best foot forward.

Massa had one bitter pill to swallow and that made for the sour face.

[Bagwan]

[quote="henners88"] I find it insults the intelligence of many fans for Ferrari to assume we don't.
[quote]

Why would you think that Ferrari assume we don't understand that team orders were issued ?

It is a stupid game that was set up by the FIA . Use team orders , but hide the fact that you did .

The message was clear , but the words "move over" were never spoken . That's the stupid game .
Of course they all toed the line .

But , the pissy attitude spoiled it , and cost $100,000 in the process .

[Bagwan]

I don't think Massa was the victim either, just in Ferrari's best interest to put their best foot forward.

Massa had one bitter pill to swallow and that made for the sour face.

I hear ya , gloomy , but sometimes , when you're 30 points behind , you take it on the chin for the team .
If you want to cry about it , do it on your own .

Get over it , Felipe baby , and get out there and show them you are faster .

[Bagwan]

My view on Ferrari assuming we the viewing public don't understand that team orders were used, was based on the statement by Ferrari Communications Director, Luca Colajanni who stated that team orders were not used and it was Felipe's decision to let Fernando through.

Do you really think the FIA would not have fined them if it wasn't for Smedley and Felipe? It was obvious by the way Felipe lifted off his accelerator and Alonso came past without any comment at all.

Duh .

So , you do understand that the rules require him to say that , don't you ?
To phrase it thusly is what is required .

And , duh again .

It was made obvious , to a degree that cost the team $100,000 .

[SGWilko]

Of course there's "something in the contracts" .

It's "do what your told" , or you are in breach .
Massa did what he was told , and then got all pissy about it , spurred on by his pissy engineer .

There is honour in being the team player , and rear gunner for the guy with the best chance .
Some of the best have played that role .

All Felipe really achieved was to get his team fined .
Everyone knew it was team orders . There still would have been the same debate .

And , this sentimental hogwash about the anniversary of his brush with death in the spring incident doesn't win championships when the anniversary coincides with a moment in time that he is 30 points behind . That's more than a race worth of points .
It wasn't as if he would get enough that he would be the points leader and thus achieve number one status within his team .


But , in the end , the donkey of this race and every other race since they "banned" team orders , is the FIA .
They are present , and they are necessary .

And , everybody knows it , including "Felipe baby" .

He's a sorry little mouse .
And , don't dive at me for criticizing his character whilst not knowing him .
I've met him , and he was a sorry little mouse then , too .

Uh oh, what did he do? Spit on yer mates car or forget to bring a pen?

[markabilly]

never too late to add another name:

Luca, "enough of the hypocrisy"

[ioan]

never too late to add another name:

Luca, "enough of the hypocrisy"

He never fails to make himself look like a donkey, you can safely bet on him coming out with some stupid comment as soon as something that doesn't suit Ferrari happens.

[Garry Walker]

Beiber - for throwing away his race from pole again...


Thats priceless.

[woody2goody]

Alguersuari and Sutil are the two that spring to mind.

Ferrari as a team for 'the call' and Force India for a generally awful weekend's racing. And all this after Sutil being fastest in P1 as well!

[Bagwan]

Well when Lewis Hamilton gave an untrue account of his action's last season he was a liar and was dragged over the coals for giving an untruthfull account of what actually happened. You may think in hindsight now that the backlash was over the top, but its still a lie. If the FIA really wanted to hammer Ferrari they would listen to the radio transmission's and compare it with Ferrari's statement and we'd have another Oz 2009 liegate scandal.

Getting a $100,000 fine so far is very lenient and 'Duh' doesn't even come into it.

It's about the stupid rules , henners , old man .

You are required to tell your driver that the other is faster , or that he must slow for some phantom issue , because this is the degree of cloaking of the actual team order that is needed to satisfy the public opinion that things are always fair and racers are never told they are to yield to a team-mate .

It's Ferrari's decision , as it's thier entry , and thier cars , and most importantly , thier employees .
For the Bulls , a few points was reason enough to do the wing switcheroo . That wasn't very pretty press .
For the reds , 30 was enough to want to switch positions .
They knew it wouldn't look pretty , but they deemed it the best way to win .

The necessary cloaking disappeared , and the fine appeared .

It was Massa's decision . He said so .

And , I'm not calling him a liar .

[Bagwan]

Uh oh, what did he do? Spit on yer mates car or forget to bring a pen?

Thanks for the great input .

[ioan]

It was Massa's decision . He said so .

And , I'm not calling him a liar .

Even back in 2002 it was Rubens' decision in the end, however that didn't make it less of a team order.

[Rollo]

Can I nominate as donkey of the race the FIA for banning team orders?

I bet that that was only instituted in the first place to satisfy media outlets and betting organisations who don't like "fixed" races. Pooh to them with highly polished brass knobs on.

[Bagwan]

Even back in 2002 it was Rubens' decision in the end, however that didn't make it less of a team order.

Very true , but now you have to hold the sign behind a veil .

In both cases , it was logical .
In both cases , it was hard for one driver to move over .
In both cases , the driver showed a dour face .

Then , it was a blatant order .
Now , the order must be implied .

Stupid , stupid rules , but Felipe simply cost his team money
I don't believe the outrage would have been any lesser , had he not pouted for the press .

[wedge]

FIA & Race Stewards - they bottled in making Ferrari into example. Goes to show how stupid the regulations are in the first place.

[wmcot]

I think a few too many fans are looking to F1 teams and drivers as fine, upstanding, moral examples.

As Donald Trump says, "It's not personal, it's only business."

[SGWilko]

Even back in 2002 it was Rubens' decision in the end, however that didn't make it less of a team order.

Was it though? I recall that the order was given about 2/3rds through the race, but Rubens was not having it, arguing with the team. In the end, I understand the ultimate ultimatum was given - move over or you are out.

So, and good for Rubens, he did in the most obvious way he thought possible.

The point was made, and the FIA had to act.

[SGWilko]

but Felipe simply cost his team money


Had Ferrari left them to it, there would have been no implication, and no fine.

And Alonso should have shut up and overtaken.

Don't blame Massa for doing exactly as the team wanted.

Stefano should have made the call, not Smedley - that's just team cowadice doing it how they did.

[ArrowsFA1]

Was it though? I recall that the order was given about 2/3rds through the race, but Rubens was not having it, arguing with the team. In the end, I understand the ultimate ultimatum was given - move over or you are out.
So Rubens did make the decision... :)

[ioan]

Stupid , stupid rules , but Felipe simply cost his team money
I don't believe the outrage would have been any lesser , had he not pouted for the press .

He saved a bit of his integrity with that.
I don't 100% agree with what he did, personally I would have preferred him don't move aside and give Domenicali the finger at the end of the race, that's what I would have done in his place.

[ioan]

Was it though?

Yes it was. He had enough money to live a more then decent life, so he could have afforded being sacked for not moving over.
In the end it is the driver who makes the ultimate decision, under pressure from the team, but still it is called team orders.

[Sleeper]

Force India

[woody2goody]

So Rubens did make the decision... :)

Yes, but, nobody can physically force you to do it.

Rubens, however, was quicker than Michael all weekend, and Michael was way ahead in the championship...

Which makes it a worse decision than Hockenheim.

[ioan]

Yes, but, nobody can physically force you to do it.

Rubens, however, was quicker than Michael all weekend, and Michael was way ahead in the championship...

Which makes it a worse decision than Hockenheim.

It was legal back then and Ferrari never denied that they used team orders, this is why Hockenheim is worse, because of the lies.

[wmcot]

It was legal back then and Ferrari never denied that they used team orders, this is why Hockenheim is worse, because of the lies.

But everyone is arguing about "integrity." So it would seem that adding a few sentences to the rule book changes the definition of integrity?

In 2002, the team order rule was added because it caused a "moral uproar." Now Bernie and others want to see the rule removed. It looks like the definition of "integrity" will change again.

[Dave B]

I've never liked team orders, but perversely I've never liked the rule which bans them. But forget "integrity" for a moment, and all this bumgravy that's often spouted about the "spirit of the rules".

If it's allowed then you do it, even if it seems unfair or unsporting.

If it's banned then you don't do it, even if you think the rule banning it is unjust.

If you don't like the rule, then campaign to have it changed or go and race somewhere else. Don't pay your entry fee and agree to abide by the rules of the sport then whine like a baby when those self-same rules don't suit you.