It's Dallara Again!

[DanicaFan]

Well, Dallara will be designing the new chassis for 2012. Different manufacturers will make body parts called "aerokits" on these chassis.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The reality is though that Dallara is more or less making a safety cell with the wheels attached.

I don't like it, but it is a compromise of cost vs variety.

These guys were smart men..they didn't arrive at this easily.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Interesting presentation as they explain why they did what they did. Everyone is preaching from the same hymnbook...

[MDS]

Reaction among the 7k fans watching the announcement has been pretty negative initially.

Going for a hologram probably wasn't the best idea for a web-based presentation.

[methanolHuffer]

I'm not sure if I will end up liking it either.

Maybe with the introduction of different engines and proprietary bodywork, it wont seem like such a spec racer.

Really was hoping for something that could be more individualized or optimized by smaller teams.

I think the big guys - Penske/Gannassi will continue their edge.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Huffer, Penske and Ganassi wont lose their edge no matter what happens. They have money. You want to kneecap those guys? Take away their sponsors and money....

The point is, the cars will evolve, and small teams might be able to put aero bits on that do more to help them and get a competitive advantage...

[methanolHuffer]

Yeah, I know. They will have the money to optimize the car better than most.

Only until engine packages come about may there be any big difference.

We probably wont see much inventiveness in the also-rans' cars. As wind tunnel access is only affordable to the major players.

[bblocker68]

Hopefully you guys come to embrace this. I think for the economic times and the place that Indycar is at right now, I think this is a great philosophy, though it's a bit of a compromise.

Cars will be discounted by 45% of the current Dallara, the car will weigh less to better help the 550-700hp engines and Dallara moves to Indy.

People will have new jobs, the cars will look different, really different the first year out and I really hope this brings out new teams and manufacturers.

BTW, TF had a meltdown. I laughed for 5 minutes straight :)

[garyshell]

Reaction among the 7k fans watching the announcement has been pretty negative initially.

Going for a hologram probably wasn't the best idea for a web-based presentation.


Based on what measurement?

Gary

[Chris R]

my initial reaction was "what a joke" - but the more I hear the more I am at least comfortable with it.... it is a step in the right direction if not the best long term solution....

The hologram was seriously ill-advised - the concepts are pretty much ugly - but I think it has something to do with distortion of the aspect ration on my computer.......

also, I should remind everyone that this is much like CART in its heyday , much like the "roadster" era and much like the pre-war era.... it is pretty much a modern twist on what has been the de facto leading cars of each generation (extremely similar cars with each tam making its own modifications).....

[garyshell]

And Dallara will be building them here in the states, right there in Speedway IN.

Gary

[methanolHuffer]

And Dallara will be building them here in the states, right there in Speedway IN.

Gary

And that is truly awesome.

[garyshell]

Isn't this what some folks here had been calling for, namely a standard safety cell with "open season" on innovation on the rest of the car?

Gary

[bblocker68]

Yeah guys, the image being broadcasted was "squeezed" so the cars looked chubby.
I complained, but no engineers heard it.

We'll see published pics soon. Looking forward. I'm truley excited.

We wanted innovation and we're gonna see it.

[coogmaster]

Nice to hear that Dallara is manufacturing these cars in Speedway, Indiana.

Since no other manufacturers were announced to produce the add-on parts, I'm assuming that there have not been any commitments as of yet from Lola, Swift, ect on this front. Also, I'm thinking Dallara themselves will produce add-ons, and that makes me think that the complete Dallara package will probably be advantageous over any other combination. I'm hoping we will see some announcements soon for the add-on manufacturers.

Also, is there a timeline on the commitment for engine manufacturers? I was expecting that to be part of this announcement.. but I suppose I was expecting too much.

[bblocker68]

It's a chassis press conference. See what happens when you assume?

[bblocker68]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-2012-car-reactions/

Miller put this out the second it was over.

[methanolHuffer]

Isn't this what some folks here had been calling for, namely a standard safety cell with "open season" on innovation on the rest of the car?

Gary

That would be great. Hopefully that is what happens.

Unless it is only superficial body panels, then forget it.

[anthonyvop]

Made in Indy, Jobs in Indy. Politicians from Indy.......Why should I care?

All in all I believe the choice is a good one. The once chassis multiple aero package is an idea I advocated years ago considering the state of US formula car racing.

[harvick#1]

:s nore:

as long as they take away downforce to finally make the drivers control the cars and are forced to slow down in the corners, I'll be happy. and turbos would be nice too

[bblocker68]

Good to see that the manufacturer who makes and fits the aero kits will be able to carry their badge on the car. No more Dallara, Dallara, Dallara.

Yes, I know, but it'll look different on paper.

[DBell]

What a let down. :(

After the last few weeks of rumors and hinting from "those in the know" of multiple chassis's, I had started to get my hopes up a little. I guess this was to be expected, but it doesn't give me a "can't wait for 2012" feeling.

[bblocker68]

Looking forward to what a car wrapped in Swift's clothes will look like. I don't see why they cant have them look like their previously proposed renderings.

[coogmaster]

I wonder how the other manufacturers feel about this. According to Miller, Swift and Lola wanted sole exclusivity for the series, which went against the whole mantra of diversity and competition. The move to Dallara makes sense, after the job incentives and special discounts for Indiana-based teams became a major key in this decision. In my opinion, this is a good move to maintain the heritage and importance of AOWR in the Hoosier state.

My main concern: After this announcement, I just hope that there is still enough interest from the other manufacturers to fully participate and "clothe" these new IndyCars, mainly because it goes against their initial ideas for the new car.

[garyshell]

The broadcast resumed and they were talking about the old Dallara will NOT be grandfathered into the series.

Gary

[garyshell]

Gearbox and suspension will be part of rolling chassis. No innovation allowed there. No more Penske shock tricks.

Gary

[nigelred5]

I think many of us had touched on this very concept in the past few weeks. I know I had. Standard safety cells are available from several manufacturers in the marine racing environment. A common single make safety cell, which in a modern open wheel racing car is essentially the entire tub that all the options and variables attach to seems like a good option at this time. I will assume it WON'T look like the current Dallara. Sonds like Cotman had a lot of influence with the decision to control the cost of the ancillary parts and open it up to everyone. That falls right in place with the basic premise of the Panoz DP01 and Swift Atlantic chassis. Build a cost effective basic structure and keep the bits you break every week very affordable.

If you strip the car down to a rolling tub, there is a whole lot of room to improve on on the looks of a current Dallara. The problem I have always had with the current Dallara unfortunately STARTS at the tub. I have to assume the ICONIC committee will influence the design of the tub signnificantly. It needs to be VERY generic. The current Dallara is very ummmmm, (looking for nice word beginning with a U......)"unique" in it's look, which I hope they get as far away from as possible.

I was unable to see the announcement thanks to the Uncle's Firewalls.

Did the announcement say that the undertray will be part of what Dallara supplies, and thus uniform as well? Will teams be allowed to develop their own suspension bits?

Add me to the list for a Penske as well please :)

[DBell]

My main concern: After this announcement, I just hope that there is still enough interest from the other manufacturers to fully participate and "clothe" these new IndyCars, mainly because it goes against their initial ideas for the new car.

Yep, mine too. Until there are announcements from engine suppliers and "aero suppliers", all that's really been announced is that Indycar will have a Dallara/Honda in 2012.

Hell, maybe the Mayans were right and none of this matters anyway. :D

[bblocker68]

Penske will get creative with Shocks, springs, arms and whatnot. I bet everyone will be pushing those parameters.

[nigelred5]

thanks Gary, I was typing when you added that bit about the suspension. That can come in better times.

Nothing to say the car won't/ can't include Penske supplied shocks. they pretty much are the stardard bearer. We all know, there is identical, and then there is the Penske version of identical... There is a will to be better than everyone else... so there will be a way.

[garyshell]

Penske will get creative with Shocks, springs, arms and whatnot. I bet everyone will be pushing those parameters.


Not from what I heard in the broadcast. They specifically said the suspension bits were part of the standard package and could not be changed. Hope there is a transcript published.

Gary

[nigelred5]

Those shocks better be sealed units then.

[bblocker68]

Not from what I heard in the broadcast. They specifically said the suspension bits were part of the standard package and could not be changed. Hope there is a transcript published.

Gary

I bet those parts will not be mandated to just one flavor, especially springs and dampers. I see them being manufactured and submitted to the governing body and approved for all cars to purchase at a set price.

[anthonyvop]

Major financial incentives if teams set up shop in Indy?

I guess it really is the "Indy" racing league.

So East and West coast shops aren't wanted? Potential Florida or Texas teams need not apply I guess.

Indy is a fine city but why should I care or want to support a series that is totally based, controlled and run out of there.

[garyshell]

Major financial incentives if teams set up shop in Indy?

I guess it really is the "Indy" racing league.

So East and West coast shops aren't wanted? Potential Florida or Texas teams need not apply I guess.

The East and West coast cities as well as the ones in Florida and Texas are welcome to offfer similar incentives.


Indy is a fine city but why should I care or want to support a series that is totally based, controlled and run out of there.

Why would you not? Oh wait I know, because it has ANYTHING to do with Indy.

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

I bet those parts will not be mandated to just one flavor, especially springs and dampers. I see them being manufactured and submitted to the governing body and approved for all cars to purchase at a set price.

I just caught a snippet of the announcement. But what I got from it is that even in areas that are left open, there will still be a mandate that anything a team develops, they'll have to offer it to other teams at a set price.

I don't know about Swift or Lola buying into this, but I can see the return of the Penske as a branded chassis.

[DBell]

I bet those parts will not be mandated to just one flavor, especially springs and dampers. I see them being manufactured and submitted to the governing body and approved for all cars to purchase at a set price.

What makes you think that. I think it's clear from the information released that that isn't the case.

From the Speed article:

from speedtv.com: The platform is a universal road/oval rolling chassis........ The IndyCar Safety Cell will serve as the base, with bodywork (aero kits of front and rear wings, sidepods, engine covers) an open design element. Any manufacturer (including inhouse by teams) will be able to produce aero kits for the chassis with stipulations that the parts receive approval from the IZOD IndyCar Series, be available to all teams, undergo safety testing approved by the IZOD IndyCar Series and have a maximum price of $70,000. Each team will be allowed to purchase two aero kits per car (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/#) each season.


A rolling chassis would include standardized suspension components. Only the body kits are open design element and are available for vendors to submit designs to the IRL for approval.

Maybe IF some engine manufacturers come in, that will make a spec car with different bodywork more attractive to me, but right now I'm completely underwhelmed.

[anthonyvop]

The East and West coast cities as well as the ones in Florida and Texas are welcome to offfer similar incentives.


I am against any government subsidies for private industry.




Why would you not? Oh wait I know, because it has ANYTHING to do with Indy.

Gary

Well then explain to me why people from other places would be interested in any activity that is Indianapolis-centric? Even NASCAR with all the incentives for their teams to be based in North Carolina isn't the North Carolina Series.
Remember this is a series that hung everything on the "Indy" name and has been on a downward spiral since it's inception.

[SoCalPVguy]

What a let down. I guess this was to be expected, but it doesn't give me a "can't wait for 2012" feeling.

Exactly. Ho Hum. Who cares except techie wonks. This makes absolutely NO difference in the pending battle of survival vs. doom for Indy Car.

When will Indy Car Re-learn "Its all about the drivers and name recognition that makes the race fans follow the sport" And with the bad Versus deal, who can even find them in the 500 or so cable channels to watch them even if they wanted to in limited markets.

Look at Nascar, 1950's technology in a common shell shaped like a brick... People watch for the DRIVERS. Hell, I think Nascar could get a 4.3 network rating just to watch Jeff Gordon battle Mark Martin cutting off Dale Jr. if they were driving tractors around a lawn.

Indy Car missed a chance to go BIG by going conventional and not trying a radically different approach whether it was Deltawing, fuel cells, electric, hybrid, or whatever.

[coogmaster]

I think it would be neat to see individual teams come up with cool little aerodynamic tricks here & there. Say Andretti Autosport comes up with a new nosecone design or a new tail fin or something for Indianapolis. Having said that, it seems like the red tape would be too long to get a new innovation, however small, through the approval lines. Also, the flexibility for this is limited because if the "only 2 per car" rule, and they would have make it available to other teams, so the advantage would be gone.

I'm playing devil's advocate here but what I'm praying not to see is one team or manufacturer coming up with a design that outpaces everything else. Hopefully these new cost measures coupled with the intelligence of the engineers will prevent that from happening.

This is all probably the best call for safety and cost purposes. All I (and I'm sure all of you) wanna see and hear during May 2012 is one thing: variety.

[EagleEye]

There were a ton of rumors floating about, but most of us believed in what was presented except that the chassis would be built buy Lola and others wold be allowed to build suspesions, non-structural and aero bits.

Even Mike King was on TV earlier in the week in Indy indicating it would be "Lotus" though we all took that he meant Lola. Lola was in the process of getting people and a building in Indy.

So, a shock really. Not sure if others who were there noticed the slight "ah" in the crowd when Dallara was announced. The majority present were not pleased.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how things progress. Not sure of the $150K discount for those in Indy, as that leaves out quite a few teams.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Really was hoping for something that could be more individualized or optimized by smaller teams.

Are you kidding? Each and every team will be able to design its own complete bodywork from scatch including the front wing, engine cover, sidepods and rear wing! The only thing common will be the safety cell, which won't even be called Dallara...

[DBell]

Are you kidding? Each and every team will be able to design its own complete bodywork from scatch including the front wing, engine cover, sidepods and rear wing! The only thing common will be the safety cell, which won't even be called Dallara...

Only if they submit for approval by the IRL and then make it available for any other team to buy. I'm thinking that since every team will only be able to buy 2 kits per season, (1 oval,1 road course most likely) then designs will be frozen at a certain point before the season starts and no additional development would be allowed.

[e2mtt]

Are you kidding? Each and every team will be able to design its own complete bodywork from scatch including the front wing, engine cover, sidepods and rear wing! The only thing common will be the safety cell, which won't even be called Dallara...

Unfortunately, no.

Any manufacturer (including inhouse by teams) will be able to produce aero kits for the chassis with stipulations that the parts receive approval from the IZOD IndyCar Series, be available to all teams, undergo safety testing approved by the IZOD IndyCar Series and have a maximum price of $70,000

Not a lot of incentive for anyone other then a manufacturer. Not a bad idea, but a long way from open innovation.

[MDS]

Based on what measurement?

Gary

I was watching the twitter, facebook and live chat they had set up with the streaming feed and much of what people posted was negative. Check out the Indycar hash on Twitter, its more casual fans than the board members here and the reaction hasn't been what I would consider positive.

Now that I've had some time to digest the announcement I'm better with it, but I still think going with Lola's proposal would have been the stronger decision. That said, conceptually this has potential to be a good thing for the sport, but only if a number of people buy into the idea of making aero packages.

Conceivably Lotus, Dallara and Dome will all be providing area packages in 2012 and there's the possibility that Penske and Ganassi would both develop their own as well, but the way the rules are written currently I don't really see why a team like Penske would spend the R&D dollars to develop their own areo package if they have to turn it around and make it available to everyone at $70,000. Still Roger, Chip and Hass have the facilities to make their own, so maybe one of them would do it.

I don't know, I'm not overwhelmed with the announcement. Time will tell how, or if, effective this decision was.

[Lousada]

Even though it doesn't affect me in any way, I feel very bad about the government subsidising Indy-Teams.


Any manufacturer (including inhouse by teams) will be able to produce aero kits for the chassis with stipulations that the parts receive approval from the IZOD IndyCar Series, be available to all teams, undergo safety testing approved by the IZOD IndyCar Series and have a maximum price of $70,000

Isn't this exactly what the Delta Wing team preached about??

I still don't see how this would work properly though? Everybody starts the season with your first aerokit. Let's say after a few races people realize that Penskes bodykit is the best, so everybody switches. Now the only one that can still develop a new bodykit is Penske, result: Penske always keeps his competitive advantage.

[garyshell]

I was watching the twitter, facebook and live chat they had set up with the streaming feed and much of what people posted was negative. Check out the Indycar hash on Twitter, its more casual fans than the board members here and the reaction hasn't been what I would consider positive.

Wow that's a real scientific measure of public opinion. You are kidding right?

...shakes head...

Gary

[Lousada]

I'm looking at the pictures at the moment. It seems like the Dallara safety cell includes anything from the nosecone, the first part of the sidepods, right up to the rearwing supports. The only things open are front/rear wing and engine cover. The differences between aerokits will be small, since the cars are 85% identical to start with. I just hope they won't get those stupid winglets F1 cars were infested with a few years ago.

[Chris R]

Wow that's a real scientific measure of public opinion. You are kidding right?

...shakes head...

Gary
like what we do here is scientific?? :p

seriously, it is as good as any measure of acceptance.....

and more importantly, scientific polls never lie do they???

just sayin' ;)

[SoCalPVguy]

like what we do here is scientific?? :p

seriously, it is as good as any measure of acceptance.....

and more importantly, scientific polls never lie do they???

just sayin' ;)

Well one thing I've noted here on this forum is: This forum is frankly a bunch of gear head racing wonks such as myself, which as a Prof Engr appreciates technology. I like to watch 'racing' first and 'the show' second.... As opposed to a Nascar fan who is all about the 'the show' seeing as the technology is 1950's... but I digress.

The mood on this forum seems to be one of disappointment at worst and who-cares at best. There is no real enthusiasm for this choice from what I gather on this forum.

My point is: If you cannot get these die-hard, knowledgeable forum race fans enthused, they have no chance enthusing the mass casual fans with this 'business as usual' approach, seeing as usual business is not thriving.

[penske15]

I'm looking at the pictures at the moment. It seems like the Dallara safety cell includes anything from the nosecone, the first part of the sidepods, right up to the rearwing supports. The only things open are front/rear wing and engine cover. The differences between aerokits will be small, since the cars are 85% identical to start with. I just hope they won't get those stupid winglets F1 cars were infested with a few years ago.
well....that isn't exactly true. the "tub" is the only part of the dalla construct that cannot be tampered with. everything including the floorpan, nose, tail and the bodywork is subject to interpretation. the roller that they showed was what dallara offers as their car. the tub is the only part of the vehicle that is hands off.

[nigelred5]

If it was lola or swift chosen to build the car, we would probably see this as more of a change.

As it is, it's still a Dallara any way you look at it. It's like having your kid staring at that hot new barbie on the shelf, then coming home with the dollar store knock off and a pair of designer clothes for your kid. They say thanks dad, but they really don't mean it.

[DBell]

Well one thing I've noted here on this forum is: This forum is frankly a bunch of gear head racing wonks such as myself, which as a Prof Engr appreciates technology. I like to watch 'racing' first and 'the show' second.... As opposed to a Nascar fan who is all about the 'the show' seeing as the technology is 1950's... but I digress.

The mood on this forum seems to be one of disappointment at worst and who-cares at best. There is no real enthusiasm for this choice from what I gather on this forum.

My point is: If you cannot get these die-hard, knowledgeable forum race fans enthused, they have no chance enthusing the mass casual fans with this 'business as usual' approach, seeing as usual business is not thriving.

I have to say I agree with this. I also think IndyCar should've handled the expectations differently. When the rumors started to build about multiple chassis and Miller states on Speed that it may be true, I would've quashed them before today's presentation. They could've said something like " We have some exciting concepts for the next car, but multiple chassis isn't part of the equation." If they did all the research they said they did, then they had to know a sizable percentage of fans wanted to see multiple chassis competition back. To let them think it was possible going into today's presentation only to be disappointed seems like a bad pr move. To know going in would still be disappointing, but a better option than to get hopes up and then throw cold water on it.

I can't believe I got my hopes up for something great from an announcement from an American open wheel series. I guess it's like Charlie Brown thinking that this time he's going to kick the football.

[NickFalzone]

I'm happy with this chassis plan. I can't say for sure how good (or not so good) it will be until it is put into action. But on paper it sounds like a smart compromise. If it means cars that look different and perform different, while retaining a core safety aspect for the drivers, then I think it is the best of both worlds. My final opinion on the new car will be determined by the engine manu(s). If it turns out we've got a Honda/Dallara/Multi-Aero manu car.. then that would kinda be lame. If it's a Multi-Engine/Dallara/Multi-Aero car, then I think competitively and technically there's a lot for fans to chew on, and engineers to creatively work with.

Edit:

On the one hand, you can say that this is basically a Dallara car, with a modest compromise made by the ICONIC team to allow "some" diversity to keep some fan interest. But ultimately, it's just a Dallara in various disguises.

Or on the other hand, you can say that this plan is very very forward thinking and ahead of other racing series that may end up implementing a similar design down the road. It keeps a core safety and reliability aspect to the chassis, along with cost-containment, while allowing the sort of fun variety in styles and aero-performance that will keep the series diversified and allow multiple manufacturers.

I prefer to think of the chassis decision as the latter, but can certainly understand and relate to others that are disappointed with it. Realistically, none of us know for sure how it will be implemented, to what degree. I don't think the IRL totally knows yet either. Let the real complaining and/or praising commence with the 2012 season.

[TURN3]

I'm behind on all the specifics so I'm sorry if this was touched on. Before I can form an opinion of this...what ALL exactly is the safety tub comprised of? I'm assuming the tub (obviously) and apparently suspension. What about sidepods? Somebody please tell me this isn't where other manufacturers can just develope a nose, undertray, and a rear wing with some wheel ramps or something.

Jury is still out on my opinion but leaning toward a positive stance between this and the engine. There will definately be variables and room for innovation at some level...on both fronts. For that, I like.

[NickFalzone]

I'm behind on all the specifics so I'm sorry if this was touched on. Before I can form an opinion of this...what ALL exactly is the safety tub comprised of? I'm assuming the tub (obviously) and apparently suspension. What about sidepods? Somebody please tell me this isn't where other manufacturers can just develope a nose, undertray, and a rear wing with some wheel ramps or something.

Jury is still out on my opinion but leaning toward a positive stance between this and the engine. There will definately be variables and room for innovation at some level...on both fronts. For that, I like.

T3, here's the press release:

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/38526-series-embraces-innovation-for-2012/

And here's Barnhart on the chassis:

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[NickFalzone]

And Bernard:

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[call_me_andrew]

Isn't this what some folks here had been calling for, namely a standard safety cell with "open season" on innovation on the rest of the car?

Gary

That's about exactly what I was calling for!

Though in my imagination, the safety cell would be non-stressed and separate from the chassis, but this is good enough for me.

In the words of Peter Vankman, "I love this plan; I'm proud to be part of it!"

[TURN3]

Thanks Nick...I'll check them out and try to catch up.

[00steven]

I was hoping for the Lola but I guess I'll have to live with it.

[MDS]

That being said, it will be interesting to see how things progress. Not sure of the $150K discount for those in Indy, as that leaves out quite a few teams.

Actually I looked it up, out of the full time teams every one qualifies for the discount except for Newman Hass Racing (Lincolnshire, Illinois) Dale Coyne Racing (Plainfield, Ill) and Penske Racing (Moorsville, NC) and potentially Rahal Letterman Racing in Columbus, other than that everyone seems to have an Indy address, including Bryan Herta Autosport,which along with AFS Racing (Hunnington Beach, CA) are likely the only new teams to come on line in the next two years.

[Scotty G.]

Let me see the driver lineup in 2012, and I'll tell you if these "new specs" have a chance of resonating or not.

New cars are nice. New specs are cool (sometimes) for the tech dorks. Innovation is needed.

But its about the drivers. Always has been and always will be. Having a driver lineup that appeals to where the vast majority of Indy Car fans hail from (United States and Canada) is where its at. Will this help in that regard? To be continued....

Can't get much worse though in that regard, can we? Almost has to improve.

Bernard keeps saying a lot of the right things. Lets see if he can put his money where his mouth is. Again, that is to be continued...

[Scotty G.]

Bryan Herta Autosport,which along with AFS Racing (Hunnington Beach, CA) are likely the only new teams to come on line in the next two years.


Sam Schmidt may be in Indy Car on a more regular basis in 2011 and beyond.

We need to bring new teams/owners into the sport. Its something that is desperately needed at both the Indy Car and especially the Indy Lights level.

I would also think Eddie Wachs will be trying hard to get into the sport in the near future. His driver belongs in Indy Cars, not sports cars.

I also wouldn't be surprised at all if Bernard does his damndest to lure a USAC team, to at least enter a car at Indy. That avenue appears to be opening again, with Bernard understanding the need to try and re-connect with where there are still a lot of AOW fans. And they ain't watching Star Mazda. ;)

Plus, it might make some sense for a Dale Coyne or a Foyt to move his team to the Indianapolis area soon. How many NASCAR teams are not based in North Carolina?

[elan 02]

Time will tell. It just looks like Brian's Dallara/Honda combo with alot of Indiana politcal BS, is this really what fans what? It is so saddening.

[SarahFan]

I had a crazy day so i missed the announcement etc...

but so Im clear.... the new car is going to be lighter and safer..


have more horsepower

and teams will be able to develop and tweak parts....

that all sounds great...


45% cheaper?.....I'll be lieve it when i see it.....mark my words, teams will be cryin the spending blues come 2012

[MDS]

I would also think Eddie Wachs will be trying hard to get into the sport in the near future. His driver belongs in Indy Cars, not sports cars.

NWR doesn't exist in any meaningful form. I talked with some people in the sports car paddock at Barber this year and Speedsource kept John Edwards on as a driver, but they don't have any sort of to Eddie Wachs, his sponsor went with Simona de Silvestro and NWR doesn't have any employees.

The only way I could see him in sport is if he buys into a team, and he's one of the rumored buyers for NHL, but while he has a relationship with the Newman family I heard he and Gene Hass don't get along.


Plus, it might make some sense for a Dale Coyne or a Foyt to move his team to the Indianapolis area soon. How many NASCAR teams are not based in North Carolina?

Dale Coyne's shop is paid for... so don't look for him to relocate to Indy anytime soon.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am firmly of the opinion that when you have a horse designed by a committee, you always get a camel. Well, for 2012, we have a camel. That said, camel's are useful in some areas.

I think the common tub is cheaper. I like the idea of different body's but then restricting them to 2 a year and having everyone be able to claim them is sort of silly. I think if Penske has a kit, and everyone else buys kits from Lola, Dallara or builds their own, They cannot jump to Penske in the first year anyhow. So really, once you make your bed, you lie in it. Much like the old days where you picked a chassis, and if it ended up being slower than the other guys, well sucks to be you unless you could get the do ray me up to buy the faster car.

It is a mixed thing. More restrictive than I would like, but there is wiggle room...and even if you had to sell a body kit that you designed, lets face it, the Penske guys say who design a body could sell you one, but they wont sell you the wind tunnel data that created it, and they wont sell you the info they learned to help set your car up either.

The unfair advantage is back.....and that isn't really a bad thing in my view. Dynasties can be good at times for sport, and regardless of how you feel about it, explain to me where Penske and Ganassi have been brought back to the pack with the current rules. Someone might build a better kit for that tub and win now....and possibilities make racing more intriguging...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Does it sound like I am wishy washy on this? YA...I am...

[V12]

Hmm...well to sum up my feelings, a step in the right direction, not big a step enough for my tastes, but better than nothing, and I guess a good compromise if they are trying to save money.

[Redstorm]

Does it sound like I am wishy washy on this? YA...I am...

You're not the only one.......

[I am evil Homer]

Well at least it's not some horrificly ugly machine that looks like it was deisgned solely to maximise advertising space....oh.....wait.............

[MAX_THRUST]

Have to say I haven't seen ay races in two years and only manage to catch the odd video off the Indy website. The race at Watkins Glen looked great. The series is doing really well compared to how both the IRL and CHAMP CAR were doing. Things are going the right way at last and if Lotus who has history in Indy car comes and plays a bigger role, great. So may many more. At least this way the manufactures can't take over and then just leave and leave a series in dire straits.

[DBell]

I just saw this Marshall Pruett article at Speed on his reaction to yesterday's news. He's not gushing praise, nor is he saying it's the the worst thing ever. He offers a more detailed analysis of the information released yesterday and if your wondering about more details, like non-stressed engines and such, then definitely worth the read.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/marshall-pruett-indycar-iconic-thud-or-thunder/

[V12]

I just saw this Marshall Pruett article at Speed on his reaction to yesterday's news. He's not gushing praise, nor is he saying it's the the worst thing ever. He offers a more detailed analysis of the information released yesterday and if your wondering about more details, like non-stressed engines and such, then definitely worth the read.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/marshall-pruett-indycar-iconic-thud-or-thunder/

Good read - especially this which is more or less what I've been saying for years:



Everything under the bodywork – something that almost every panel member I spoke with told me “the average fan doesn’t care about” – is spec. How insulting.

I can’t speak for IndyCar fans as a whole, but it came across like the panel believes that open-wheel fans are too dumb to notice what makes a Lola different from a Reynard, or a Panoz different from a Dallara


But at the end of the day - it has the potential to be better (even if only marginally better) than what we have today, at worst it will be exactly the same, and it can be no worse, which at a time when F1 and even LMP2 sportscars are degenerating backwards it's a positive, however small that positive is.

So I'm hardly buzzing with excitement, but it could have been worse.

[DBell]

I agree ^^^^^^

I can't believe that these people think that IndyCar fans don't care anything about technology and competition. Makes me believe that all this talk about listening to what fans want was lip service.

I thought this section from his article really hit on what I'm feeling from yesterday.


That’s my hope.

But that’s also where I keep getting stuck.

Hope…wish…could…maybe…might.

The 2012 Strategy announcement that the ICONIC panel has set into motion relies on hope – and vast quantities of it – for their plan to succeed.

I’m not a betting man when it comes to the things I love. I want to see the IndyCar Series put a plan in place that will see different looking cars on the 2012 grid. Period. Full stop. No hope required.

It’s the ‘If we announce it, they will come’ business plan that has me most concerned, and in our current economy, I’m afraid that kind of ’gosh I hope this works approach to IndyCar’s future comes across as reckless and rather naive.


The "announce and hope" has been the strategy the former Champcar series and the IRL for several years now and it hasn't served them very well. CC is gone and the IRL has seen a negative in growth since the merge, at least in terms of TV and exposure. I "hope" this leads to some variety of cars and "hope" that engine manufacturers come to play, but I'm think it's just as likely, if not more, that we'll see a Dallara/Honda with a couple of choices of body kits for 2012.

I think it'll be interesting to see who signs up to make the aero kits. I doubt Lola will. If it's small manufacturers with less resources that Dallara, can they be competitive or will most everyone use Dallara's aero package?

I hope for the best, but don't realistically expect it anymore.

[Scotty G.]

I agree ^^^^^^

I can't believe that these people think that IndyCar fans don't care anything about technology and competition.


A handful of them do. Probably most of the 200,000 or so watching on TV every race weekend.

Its just nearly enough to matter though, in the big picture.

[garyshell]

I agree ^^^^^^

I can't believe that these people think that IndyCar fans don't care anything about technology and competition.


A handful of them do. Probably most of the 200,000 or so watching on TV every race weekend.

Its just nearly enough to matter though, in the big picture.

ScottyG,

Every once in awhile we agree. Such is the case here. The word "fan" is derived from fanatic. And with that limited scope of definition, DBell is probably right... the "fans" do care about technology and competition. But in the broader scope of "fans" being defined as "our customers", then technology takes a back seat to competition. The customer that the IRL need to go after doesn't know much about the technology, they want to see drivers race.

Gary

[V12]

technology takes a back seat to competition.

The "technology" people want to see is a form of competition in itself though. And while I do get the whole argument about the die-hard fans losing out numerically, Indy Car have tried the whole "racing entertainment" angle over the past decade or so, with all their close finishes measured in milliseconds, cars passing and re-passing each other every lap, push-to-pass, option tyre rules, and so on. Everything we're constantly told that the "man in the street" wants. Except that hasn't quite worked.

So why not try something different? Something that's closer to something which used to actually work? It's not like a variety of machinery will actually turn away any of these so-called men in the street, Joe Public, whatever you want to call them.

[nigelred5]

NASCAR attandence has consistently declined sine the COT arrived. Sure, som of htat coincides with the economy, but it's not a coinidence that NASCAR is attempting to make the new cars more resemble an actual street car again. NASCAR fans have complained loudly about the COT and it's 4 sets of decals.

[garyshell]

The "technology" people want to see is a form of competition in itself though. And while I do get the whole argument about the die-hard fans losing out numerically, Indy Car have tried the whole "racing entertainment" angle over the past decade or so, with all their close finishes measured in milliseconds, cars passing and re-passing each other every lap, push-to-pass, option tyre rules, and so on. Everything we're constantly told that the "man in the street" wants. Except that hasn't quite worked.

So why not try something different? Something that's closer to something which used to actually work? It's not like a variety of machinery will actually turn away any of these so-called men in the street, Joe Public, whatever you want to call them.

Agreed. And I think the new chassis concept will do that. Trouble is I am getting the impression it is not enough for the "technology crowd".

Gary

[Marbles]

Isn't this what some folks here had been calling for, namely a standard safety cell with "open season" on innovation on the rest of the car?

Gary

This sounds pretty much what I had hoped for several months ago. If this allows enough innovation with the aero kit and at a price of 350,000 a roller, you might even see some i interesting privateer stuff at Indy. I'm happy if this is what I had hoped out for it to be. :)

[anthonyvop]

Agreed. And I think the new chassis concept will do that. Trouble is I am getting the impression it is not enough for the "technology crowd".

Gary

I am totally into the technology of motorsport but I realize that the "tech crowd" is not what the IRL needs.

The IRL needs the Casual fan to pack the stands and rise those ratings numbers.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am totally into the technology of motorsport but I realize that the "tech crowd" is not what the IRL needs.

The IRL needs the Casual fan to pack the stands and rise those ratings numbers.


well if the cars LOOK different, that is a start. People can pick favourites based on design...which did used to happen...

[Mark in Oshawa]

The "technology" people want to see is a form of competition in itself though. And while I do get the whole argument about the die-hard fans losing out numerically, Indy Car have tried the whole "racing entertainment" angle over the past decade or so, with all their close finishes measured in milliseconds, cars passing and re-passing each other every lap, push-to-pass, option tyre rules, and so on. Everything we're constantly told that the "man in the street" wants. Except that hasn't quite worked.

So why not try something different? Something that's closer to something which used to actually work? It's not like a variety of machinery will actually turn away any of these so-called men in the street, Joe Public, whatever you want to call them.

Hear Hear, no arguments from me.

I think as I said above, it was the compromise between just a blue sky perfect world where anyone who wanted to show up with a car meeting basic rules could show up(what I want) and a spec series (like we have).

This is somewhere in the middle, and because money is tight, I think that is the reasoning. Although Roger Penske wasn't in the room when they were making these decisions ( or Chip and Mikey either ) doesn't mean the teams as as whole were not in on the process. You can bet their needs were being considered too. What the fan's want will change and evolve all the time...but it has to be the right decision for the teams, because they have to race this car, and they have to BUY this car....

[dataman1]

My take is based upon conversations I have had with team managers and mechanics of teams that moved from CCWS to ICS.

Dallara has had, with the current chassis, a quality control problem. Penske would go through five before they would accept one. They had the cash to do the testing of a new tub to make an informed choice. Most teams did not. Each CCWS team received a new chassis and an old one. Thinking new is better one of the top level CCWS teams ran the new chassis for several races and could not do well. That chassis was damaged and the team went to the old tub with the same set ups and bits and they were in the top ten immediately. I have heard that type of story several times in the past 2 years from several teams.

My point is this: the new safety tub has to have better quality control measures in place so every team can count on each and everyone to come out of the Dallara factory in the same spec and performance.

IMO this means that the Owners don't talk to their own people to know the issues or it slipped their minds when polled by the ICONIC group. So far Randy is the only one that has mentioned the quality issue which IMO means he is listening to everyone and that is a breath of fresh air.

[Mark in Oshawa]

My take is based upon conversations I have had with team managers and mechanics of teams that moved from CCWS to ICS.

Dallara has had, with the current chassis, a quality control problem. Penske would go through five before they would accept one. They had the cash to do the testing of a new tub to make an informed choice. Most teams did not. Each CCWS team received a new chassis and an old one. Thinking new is better one of the top level CCWS teams ran the new chassis for several races and could not do well. That chassis was damaged and the team went to the old tub with the same set ups and bits and they were in the top ten immediately. I have heard that type of story several times in the past 2 years from several teams.

My point is this: the new safety tub has to have better quality control measures in place so every team can count on each and everyone to come out of the Dallara factory in the same spec and performance.

IMO this means that the Owners don't talk to their own people to know the issues or it slipped their minds when polled by the ICONIC group. So far Randy is the only one that has mentioned the quality issue which IMO means he is listening to everyone and that is a breath of fresh air.

That is a worrying story. I would hope Dallara does build consistent quality tubs, but it doesn't surprise me that Penske was that fussy and took the time to get perfect tubs.

There has been a lot of study, discussion and consultation done on this deal. Everyone has a lot at stake here...so I don't think Randy is leaving anything to chance.

Another good point in his favour in that he did mention the quality issue. Nothing like putting Dallara in the hot seat...

[NickFalzone]

I just saw this Marshall Pruett article at Speed on his reaction to yesterday's news. He's not gushing praise, nor is he saying it's the the worst thing ever. He offers a more detailed analysis of the information released yesterday and if your wondering about more details, like non-stressed engines and such, then definitely worth the read.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/marshall-pruett-indycar-iconic-thud-or-thunder/

LOL, from bottom of article:

Declan Brennan forwarded a Tweet sent by Danica Patrick in the middle of the 2012 chassis presentation: “In LA for the espys. I am presenting best male athlete! Thanks for picking my tissot watch for tonight! How far has she checked out from the world of open-wheel?

[harvick#1]

LOL, from bottom of article:

Declan Brennan forwarded a Tweet sent by Danica Patrick in the middle of the 2012 chassis presentation: “In LA for the espys. I am presenting best male athlete! Thanks for picking my tissot watch for tonight! How far has she checked out from the world of open-wheel?

she wont be in the IRL by the time 2012 hits, so why should she care. shes only been a plague in the series for the past 5 years

[call_me_andrew]

I am totally into the technology of motorsport but I realize that the "tech crowd" is not what the IRL needs.

The IRL needs the Casual fan to pack the stands and rise those ratings numbers.

Yeah we don't need these people.

http://dvice.com/pics/iphone3Glinevert.jpg

Dumb suckers are waiting to buy iPhones.

[anthonyvop]

Yeah we don't need these people.

http://dvice.com/pics/iphone3Glinevert.jpg

Dumb suckers are waiting to buy iPhones.


Yea and a spec chassis running on ovals with a USAC connection will suck these people in?

The ALMS is head and shoulders technologically above the IRL and these people aren't banging their doors down.
If you asked them how many in that line could name Jenson Button out of a line up?

[call_me_andrew]

Yea and a spec chassis running on ovals with a USAC connection will suck these people in?

The ALMS is head and shoulders technologically above the IRL and these people aren't banging their doors down.
If you asked them how many in that line could name Jenson Button out of a line up?

I said they're buying iPhones, not Droids.

They're more interested in things that are cosmetically pleasing but lack real functionality. That's where the aero kits come in.

[AussieV8]

I'm just happy the car still looks like an open wheel race car rather than that Delta wing thing. It looks sufficiently different from the old one, but still has that familiar look about it.

With an opening up of aero parts, I'm hoping that we also see updates to the look of the cars from year to year even if the chassis itself remains the same. The worst thing about the last few years is we've been stuck with that fugly Dallara with virtually no change to the appearance.

[px400r]

I said they're buying iPhones, not Droids.

They're more interested in things that are cosmetically pleasing but lack real functionality. That's where the aero kits come in.

I doubt it. What they're really buying is the image projected by the Apple brand.

Now compare that to the IRL's brand. Not even close. The Danica brand is closer in that regard, and look at the bitching and moaning we "real fans" do.

[Chris R]

Most of them would think that a Jenson Button is a new style of jeans closure - and want one. :p
or a new app.... :D

[coogmaster]

A small article in the Star this morning mentioned that Andy Bernard is expecting "around 5" different manufacturers to participate in the aero package deal.

Since he took the reigns, Bernard has been producing results. I'm impressed with the guy, and I think he'll deliver.

[V12]

Hear Hear, no arguments from me.

I think as I said above, it was the compromise between just a blue sky perfect world where anyone who wanted to show up with a car meeting basic rules could show up(what I want) and a spec series (like we have).

This is somewhere in the middle, and because money is tight, I think that is the reasoning. Although Roger Penske wasn't in the room when they were making these decisions ( or Chip and Mikey either ) doesn't mean the teams as as whole were not in on the process. You can bet their needs were being considered too. What the fan's want will change and evolve all the time...but it has to be the right decision for the teams, because they have to race this car, and they have to BUY this car....

Yeah, definitely a compromise, that seems to be the overriding theme. Could have been better, but could have been worse too. Plus as I said it's a step in the right direction from where we are now. For instance if F1 mandated spec tubs all hell would break loose because that would be a backwards step.

What's pleased me the most though is at least the intention behind this, and the realisation that different machinery competing in the same race is a GOOD thing, and that the only thing holding them back appears to be financial considerations, which are at least understandable. For pretty much the past decade there's been series after series launched accompanied by some overblown PR mantra along the lines of "brand new series!! everyone drives identical cars!! so driver ability REALLY counts!!!! YEAH!!!!!". Then Palmer Audi and "Formula 2" took it a step further by having everyone drive for the same team, effectively. With this announcement, the demise of A1GP and Formula BMW, and general apathy of the fans in all these series, maybe the tide is turning, very slowly.

I guess the real test will come when, or should I say if, or should I say BIG if, things like the economy pick up, fan interest and sponsorship and so on pick up, will they go back to a free-for-all or not?

[Lousada]

A small article in the Star this morning mentioned that Andy Bernard is expecting "around 5" different manufacturers to participate in the aero package deal.

Good that the Nard Dawg gave such positive feedback. But what does Randy Bernard expect?

[maximilian]

I think given the dismal economic climate and complete lack of exposure on Versus, it was never realistic to expect different chassis in IndyCar. No constructor in their right mind would enter the series and invest all that R&D money unless they get guaranteed returns. As such, I think this is about the best solution we could hope for that might make for some interesting "constructors" entering...

The only thing I don't agree with is that all kits must be available to all entrants. I think if someone goes thru the trouble of developing their own kit, they should be allowed exclusive rights to it, and to CHOOSE if and who they would sell it to.

Who would be in a "dream line up" of aero kit constructors in 2012? How about...

Penske
Ganassi
Andretti
Swift
Dallara (generic kit used by those who can't make their own and aren't striking deals with others?)
Lola
Panoz
Lotus
DOME
Reynard (comeback ;) )
USF1 (just kidding!)

who else? :)

[nigelred5]

Anything aerodynamically related to Adrian Newey :)

[MDS]

One thing we didn't think about is that this might be appealing to engineering companies.

I live in Atlanta and talked with someone I know at the Lockheed Martin facility in Marietta. He's an engineer and he said they have everything the need to fabricate a body kit as a side project. But Lockheed has never been involved in racing before, but he kicked around the idea with some other engineers and he said there would probably be more value to Lockheed with this proposal because they won't just be sponsoring the car, they'd have technical over it. He said flat out that they're not interested in a spec series, but as a company of engineers this could be something that could potentially appeal to them.

One thing he suggested that I haven't seen mentioned is that this could bring in other engineering organizations that aren't typically involved in sponsoring autosport, specifically he mentioned Georgia Tech and other technical colleges. The big tech schools like GT have the faculty to design in house, give their students real-world experience and use it as a recruiting tool for the college, which I think is a really cool idea could work. In theory it be a win for the school, the sport and a team.

Think about it, we could see a white and gold Georgia Tech car where they're not only the sponsor, but they built the car as well, that sort of thing appeals to companies and colleges like that. Also, I'd love to see Rambling Reck listed as a make.

[maximilian]

Anything aerodynamically related to Adrian Newey :)
Good idea... maybe RedBull will enter as an aero kit constructor? ;)

[anthonyvop]

Anything aerodynamically related to Adrian Newey :)

I doubt anybody in the IRL could afford him.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yeah, definitely a compromise, that seems to be the overriding theme. Could have been better, but could have been worse too. Plus as I said it's a step in the right direction from where we are now. For instance if F1 mandated spec tubs all hell would break loose because that would be a backwards step.

What's pleased me the most though is at least the intention behind this, and the realisation that different machinery competing in the same race is a GOOD thing, and that the only thing holding them back appears to be financial considerations, which are at least understandable. For pretty much the past decade there's been series after series launched accompanied by some overblown PR mantra along the lines of "brand new series!! everyone drives identical cars!! so driver ability REALLY counts!!!! YEAH!!!!!". Then Palmer Audi and "Formula 2" took it a step further by having everyone drive for the same team, effectively. With this announcement, the demise of A1GP and Formula BMW, and general apathy of the fans in all these series, maybe the tide is turning, very slowly.

I guess the real test will come when, or should I say if, or should I say BIG if, things like the economy pick up, fan interest and sponsorship and so on pick up, will they go back to a free-for-all or not?

Excellent points my man..

I think when the economy picks up, we can have the discussion of more tub choices. I think at this point, we have to see that the new evolution of rules works before we take that final step...

[nigelred5]

They have to build for this economy, not one people Hope will come back. This country needs to regain its manufacturing base or. The third world will overtake us faster than you can drop a deuce. At least this creates jobs here, but I would have been happier if the incentives and tax credits had gone to a U.S. owned company. We don't even own our own country anymore.

[e2mtt]

One thing we didn't think about is that this might be appealing to engineering companies.

I live in Atlanta and talked with someone I know at the Lockheed Martin facility in Marietta. He's an engineer and he said they have everything the need to fabricate a body kit as a side project. But Lockheed has never been involved in racing before, but he kicked around the idea with some other engineers and he said there would probably be more value to Lockheed with this proposal because they won't just be sponsoring the car, they'd have technical over it. He said flat out that they're not interested in a spec series, but as a company of engineers this could be something that could potentially appeal to them.

One thing he suggested that I haven't seen mentioned is that this could bring in other engineering organizations that aren't typically involved in sponsoring autosport, specifically he mentioned Georgia Tech and other technical colleges. The big tech schools like GT have the faculty to design in house, give their students real-world experience and use it as a recruiting tool for the college, which I think is a really cool idea could work. In theory it be a win for the school, the sport and a team.

Think about it, we could see a white and gold Georgia Tech car where they're not only the sponsor, but they built the car as well, that sort of thing appeals to companies and colleges like that. Also, I'd love to see Rambling Reck listed as a make.

Excellent idea. Engineering schools are a great place for look for innovation, and could probably get some booster money on board also.

[e2mtt]

Yeah we don't need these people.

http://dvice.com/pics/iphone3Glinevert.jpg

Dumb suckers are waiting to buy iPhones.

Ha. Indycar only wishes they could get these people - people who appreciate high tech, good design, & great engineering. (Except they aren't even trying, they don't even have an Iphone app.)

In Formula 1 there's a huge amount of interest in the latest upgrades, trick parts, new aero bits & everything. The development of technology helps drive the series. (Just look at the controversy over Red Bull's diffuser, McLaren's blown rear wing, & which Red Bull driver got the better front wing.)

Having technical changes & options DOES interest racing fans. Even in Nascar, where Nascar tries so hard to make things equal, fans talk for hours about what Chad Knaus is doing different to Jimmie's cars, and which make of engines makes more power & why. (Yeah, they talk about it less now, since the COT)

[Jag_Warrior]

Ha. Indycar only wishes they could get these people - people who appreciate high tech, good design, & great engineering. (Except they aren't even trying, they don't even have an Iphone app.)

In Formula 1 there's a huge amount of interest in the latest upgrades, trick parts, new aero bits & everything. The development of technology helps drive the series. (Just look at the controversy over Red Bull's diffuser, McLaren's blown rear wing, & which Red Bull driver got the better front wing.)

Having technical changes & options DOES interest racing fans. Even in Nascar, where Nascar tries so hard to make things equal, fans talk for hours about what Chad Knaus is doing different to Jimmie's cars, and which make of engines makes more power & why. (Yeah, they talk about it less now, since the COT)

+1 :up:

Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would bring up the iPhone or the Droid in a discussion about the IRL. Probably better to bring this up:
http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/80-brick-phone.jpg

It's got only the most basic functionality and guts of a modern cell phone. All it does is the basics. It's made for nostalgia buffs. I had to hunt for a supplier (as I might get one). But like the IRL (and unlike the iPhone and the Droid OS's), no one in the mainstream press is really talking about it either.

I'm hoping that this new chassis and engine(s?) make a difference. But whether it's tech fans (who have migrated to F1 and ALMS by now) or just the casual fan, the IRL is going to have to do something to make the drivers (other than The Danica) a talking point. Look at any F1 or NASCAR board. People talk about the drivers the majority of the time. After you've seen a car, even the most exotic car, three or four times, it becomes old news. And even if the new car was to be all teched out, who's going to explain it, Jack A-root with his cheese grater and his can of marbles?

[garyshell]

Ha. Indycar only wishes they could get these people - people who appreciate high tech, good design, & great engineering.

Great engineering? Care to explain that in context of the il-fated iPhone 4? For Apple it's all about the design and all about control.

Gary

[NickFalzone]

Great engineering? Care to explain that in context of the il-fated iPhone 4? For Apple it's all about the design and all about control.

Gary

I used to be an Apple hater. Now in the last 3 years I've been using their products and I like them. But the reality is that they are not ahead of the curve technologically, or particularly well-made. Instead, they are very good-looking, intuitively designed, and extremely well-marketed. If you are an informed consumer that is not all about appearing trendy, then you can and should do better than buying Apple products. But if you are too lazy to do research and care more about how a product looks (and makes you look) than pure functionality and cost-savings, then buying Apple makes sense. Usually their products do not flat out suck and have some cool features. But are they the be-all and end-all of the consumer technology market? Hardly. And they are also over-priced, and not particularly durable.

[garyshell]

I used to be an Apple hater. Now in the last 3 years I've been using their products and I like them. But the reality is that they are not ahead of the curve technologically, or particularly well-made. Instead, they are very good-looking, intuitively designed, and extremely well-marketed. If you are an informed consumer that is not all about appearing trendy, then you can and should do better than buying Apple products. But if you are too lazy to do research and care more about how a product looks (and makes you look) than pure functionality and cost-savings, then buying Apple makes sense. Usually their products do not flat out suck and have some cool features. But are they the be-all and end-all of the consumer technology market? Hardly. And they are also over-priced, and not particularly durable.


Spot on. I owned one of the very first Mac's in Cincinnati back in 1984. But sadly I could not make a living programming for the thing. The market share was just too small.

We now take you back to your regularly scheduled racing forum...

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

On its best day the IRL would love to have Apple's problems on its worst day.

People claim (and I tend to agree with them) that it's Apple's hardcore fanbois (and goyls) that are the core of its success (now the biggest technology company in the world in terms of market cap). At one time AOWR had a pretty decent sized base of hardcore fanbois (and goyls) too. I know, as I used to be one of them. But these days, the IRL is just struggling not to become the PALM of auto racing. It's certainly not in the same conversation when drawing parallels from auto racing series to the iPhone, Droid, Blackberry... or anything else tech related (that has more than just a small niche following).

[SoCalPVguy]

+1 :up:


http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/80-brick-phone.jpg



Ha ha I had a Motorola like that... in 1993... Isn't this the official Nascar 2010 cel. phone ?? It appears that Apple is not a sponsor of any motor racing entry... Not advertising in Nascar country is understandable if you also understand basic silicone valley bay area liberal techie snobbery but ICS should make an approach to Apple for some kind of high technology synergy....

[e2mtt]

Good luck getting Apple to advertise on any kind of motor racing. They have all the brand recognition they need, & they are way too controlling of their advertising message to ever want to see their Apple car smashed against a wall or on fire.

Palm did sponsor a car in last years Indy 500... they make pretty nice phones still.

Say what you want about their software, culture, & attitudes... Apple makes some nice hardware. They design & engineer art in glass & brushed metal, & their fit & finish and manufacturing tolerances are usually head & shoulders above their competition.

I really think Apple approaches their business the same way Penske & Hendrick approach racing. Not everybody is a fan, and sometimes they screw up, but their dedication & attention to detail is undeniable, and they get results.

[call_me_andrew]

We may not be able to get Apple, but the iPhone's lone carrier was kicked out of NASCAR for being a cell phone company. Surely we can pick them up for cheap.

[nigelred5]

Wow, according to quotes from Martin Birrane on the choice of the Dallara, we should be calling the new car " The Blue Light Special". I suppose the actual price should be $284,999.97.

[DBell]

Lotus announces plans for 2012 body kit.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85623

How long will it take Sato to crumple Lotus's new body kit. I say 10-20 laps. :D

[I am evil Homer]

Race laps or practice/qualifying?

Still one of his 'best' moments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH4f8YXkPX8

"I couldn't do anything"...yep like drive...

[DBell]

Race laps or practice/qualifying?

Still one of his 'best' moments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH4f8YXkPX8

"I couldn't do anything"...yep like drive...

Testing. ;)