Lexus LFA

[tannat]

http://www.lexus.com/LFA/

Cheers to Toyota for building such a car, but $350,000?

Sorry-even if I'm Mac Daddy fat wallet I wouldn't do it.

Maybe at $150,000 :D

Opinions?

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is in the end...a Lexus. No soul...no passion..no history. Ferrari can charge that much...Porsche can, Lexus cannot...


You cannot manufacture pedigree...

[Jag_Warrior]

The last Toyotas that I got excited about were the last generation Supra Turbo and the Celica All-Trac Turbo (GT-Four in other markets, I think). They stopped making the All-Trac in the early 90's and I believe they let the Supra die in the mid 90's. The MR2 was also a snazzy little car, but I don't know much about it.

They did a review of the LFA on Bloomberg and as Mark said, the conclusion was that it had no soul and no pedigree. I mean, you're basically buying a Toyota. A really nice Toyota, but it's still a Toyota. For that kind of money you could have a Bentley GT, any Aston, a nice Ferrari or Lambo or a Porsche Turbo... and have money left over. That covers the range from luxo sporty to hardcore sporty. And now that they've been chased out of F1, and don't participate in much other than NASCAR these days, I think this will be a hard sell for Toyota. But who knows?

I'll never be in that league. But before I'd buy this thing, I'd buy the new Bentley Continental Supersport and use the spare change to vacation in Monaco and Rome for a month or six. :bounce:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It is in the end...a Lexus. No soul...no passion..no history. Ferrari can charge that much...Porsche can, Lexus cannot...


You cannot manufacture pedigree...

^This :up:

[markabilly]

4.8 v-10, with 525 HP, 350 lbs of torque

from a lexus???????


compare it to this.....http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138967


Actually the Sc 430 was not a bad car, great and luxurous interior, (REAL WOOD AND LEATHER HAND MADE IN THE EARLY VERSIONS) and lexus reliabilty (the only car without a recall from toyota, and at one time, completely hand built in japan, but now only paritially)

Needs an anti-roll bar upgrade, slightly better suspension (you can buy) (although the 2005, was more taut than the later 2006 to 2010 which were somewhat "wallow" prone) dump the standard run flats, dump the mufflers and straight pipe it with a slight loud muffer or no muffler.....

New PRICE was outrageous just like LFA, but a five year old, will still run great and costs less than fifty percent of a new one...

[markabilly]

a different point of view from car and driver, after testing in germany...





The LFA is the most exciting car to come out of Japan since the GT-R, as it should be for the money Lexus is charging. But it’s more involving than the Nissan and a much more special experience. In many ways, its closest natural rival is the Ferrari 599GTB (http://www.motorsportforums.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_ferrari_599gtb_fiorano_hgte-first_drive_review), although the Lexus is more visceral and exciting and better balanced and more nimble. At the same time, the LFA is easy to drive at everyday speeds, quiet at cruise, and refined, just like a Lexus should be. Whether people can equate the brand with a hugely expensive, hugely competent sports car will be interesting to say the least


]http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2012_lexus_lfa-first_drive_review/a_grammy_worthy_soundtrack_page_2 (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2012_lexus_lfa-first_drive_review/a_grammy_worthy_soundtrack_page_2[/color)[/color]

[Zico]

If Lexus continue bringing cars out like that it wont be long before they gain a history and a pedigree, the LFA is my idea of a proper supercar, I think I'd prefer owning something like this over a Ferrari, Zonda, Porsche etc.. it would provide the same thrills and then some without the same 'hey look at me' image, works both ways.

I agree that its overpriced and when you consider that the Nissan GTR is only a fraction slower over the quarter mile and a fraction of the price, it does seem unlikely to be a success... but when you see that its Rwd, has a 9k rpm redline N/A V10 howler and looks to have superb handling and be natural drifter.. I really can see the appeal.

[donKey jote]

a different point of view from car and driver, after testing in germany...


in other news from Germany:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/23/breaking-toyota-chief-test-driver-dies-lf-a-germany-ring/

The passenger in the BMW, a colleague of mine, is very lucky to have survived.

[wedge]

If Lexus continue bringing cars out like that it wont be long before they gain a history and a pedigree, the LFA is my idea of a proper supercar, I think I'd prefer owning something like this over a Ferrari, Zonda, Porsche etc.. it would provide the same thrills and then some without the same 'hey look at me' image, works both ways.

Agreed. It's trying too hard.

Still, it'll be a collector's car. The problem with that is the Ferrari 599 GTO - possibly the last ever V12 seen on the Prancing Horse.


It is in the end...a Lexus. No soul...no passion..no history. Ferrari can charge that much...Porsche can, Lexus cannot...


You cannot manufacture pedigree...

I hate that line of argument. You've got to start somewhere.

What pedigree did Honda (NSX), Audi (R8), Alfa (8C Competizione) have? the last two were akin to incest: R8/Lambo Gallardo, 8C - Maserati Gran Tourismo

Pedigree has never stopped Ron Dennis. In fact it is a benchmark and challenge for McLaren, even if Ferrari makes Ron's blood boil!


The last Toyotas that I got excited about were the last generation Supra Turbo and the Celica All-Trac Turbo (GT-Four in other markets, I think). They stopped making the All-Trac in the early 90's and I believe they let the Supra die in the mid 90's. The MR2 was also a snazzy little car, but I don't know much about it.


The Gen 7 Celica is a bit under rated. 190hp from a 1.8. but not a tuner's car.

Coupes/sportscars can be hard to justify on balance sheets.

[anthonyvop]

What pedigree did Honda (NSX), Audi (R8), Alfa (8C Competizione) have? .

The NSX was relatively affordable for a exotic. Audi and Alfa both oooze pedigree.

[tannat]

What pedigree did Honda (NSX)........ have?


Indeed-no pedigree, but it was nifty at a decent price.

The Lexus would be a winner at $125k.....

[markabilly]

Indeed-no pedigree, but it was nifty at a decent price.

The Lexus would be a winner at $125k.....
three times or more than what i can afford....

[anthonyvop]

The Lexus would be a winner at $125k.....

Exactly.

If i had the money to by the Lexus I would buy the Ferrari California instead and arrange to pick it up in Maranello. Then with the money I saved take a nice long exploration trip of European driving roads.

[race aficionado]

in other news from Germany:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/23/breaking-toyota-chief-test-driver-dies-lf-a-germany-ring/

The passenger in the BMW, a colleague of mine, is very lucky to have survived.


lucky indeed.
:eek:

[Jag_Warrior]

What pedigree did Honda (NSX), Audi (R8), Alfa (8C Competizione) have? the last two were akin to incest: R8/Lambo Gallardo, 8C - Maserati Gran Tourismo

Pedigree has never stopped Ron Dennis. In fact it is a benchmark and challenge for McLaren, even if Ferrari makes Ron's blood boil!



The Gen 7 Celica is a bit under rated. 190hp from a 1.8. but not a tuner's car.

Coupes/sportscars can be hard to justify on balance sheets.

True. Sports/GT cars can be hard to justify on the balance sheet. Buying one has as much to do with emotion and passion as anything.

As for some of the cars you mentioned, the NSX and the R8 were released after both Honda and Audi had found incredible success on the race track. Remember all those pictures of Senna testing the car early on? And later on, Acura produced the NSX Zanardi Edition - a car that I'd still like to own. A racing pedigree adds to the emotion and passion that I just mentioned. The Celica All-Trac/GT-Four was released when Toyota was finding success in the WRC and IMSA. When I picked up my Celica GT-S in the early 90's, the dealer gave me a poster of Dan Gurney's AAR car crossing the finish line in 1st. I really wanted an All-Trac but I couldn't justify spending that much for a daily driver (and still be able to keep my other cars). But just look at the WRX/STI. It's a Subaru! :rolleyes: But because it's kicked butt in the WRC for several years, it now has a cult following around the world.

Oh yeah, you're right: the last Celica did have a peppy little engine. 1.8 liter N.A with 190hp was nothing to sneeze at! I thought they had a hit on their hands. Early on, Toyota made a big deal of the fact that the design of that car was heavily influenced by a Champ Car (the AAR Eagle). But that Celica, like the previous model, eventually became known as a "secretary's car" and never caught on among enthusiasts.

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of a Lexus, I think of a well built, high quality, tech-filled people mover. I don't think of a sports/GT car. Toyota/Lexus has little on track success to speak of these days. For me at least, there is no emotion or passion there. But I bet it's a good car. Just not one that I would buy, even if I had the means.

[tannat]

We'd be remiss to not mention the Toyota GT ONE in this discussion :D

But the connection still isn't there...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Wedge, you say you don't like my line of argument? My point is that people spending this much for a car are not using logic, performance data (although it matters) or even styling to drive their decison. They are buying a toy, and the last thing any really seriously rich car collector wants to do is buy a car that has people seeing the nameplate and thinking "oh..a Toyota" when he just dropped the money that could have bought him 2 GT-R's that are almost as fast or maybe a couple of Ferrari 430's.

If this car was 1/3 the price, I wouldn't be so critical. It IS a wonderful car, but the price is more than is justified for the buyer it needs to attract. People spending the much money want an emotional bond with the car and a connection to a racing pedigree. Ferrari's always had something over the flashier Lambo's and still do because of their racing history. Porsche has always sold the same basic car with a steady evolution because of the racing HISTORY.

It is an emotional decision that makes people buy cars like this, and if they are spending that much money there is a lot of emotion. Lexus sends one to the boys in Top Gear and makes it WHITE. How the hell do you get excited about a white supercar?????? RED boys..RED...Or NEON Orange or something that says "Buy me"...White is disposable....

[tannat]

Interetsting point on the color-is white the national racing color of Japan?

Red-I think Italy
Silver-I think Germany
Blue/white stripe-USA

I always recall the Toyota 2000GT of the sixties being in white...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Interetsting point on the color-is white the national racing color of Japan?

Red-I think Italy
Silver-I think Germany
Blue/white stripe-USA

I always recall the Toyota 2000GT of the sixties being in white...

They may have been, but the racing colours of the world mean little to a rich guy with money to burn looking for a car to make his manhood look better....

He isn't buying a Lexus....he is buying something that has that "it" factor.

White doesn't say "Sexy, exciting car"...it says..."efficient car to go to the market with" when you add on a Lexus badge.

If you are going to break into this market, you don't send a White LFA to the boys at Top Gear....you send one in black or red....

[Daniel]

in other news from Germany:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/23/breaking-toyota-chief-test-driver-dies-lf-a-germany-ring/

The passenger in the BMW, a colleague of mine, is very lucky to have survived.
Hope your colleague recovers quickly Donks :)

[wedge]

We'd be remiss to not mention the Toyota GT ONE in this discussion :D

But the connection still isn't there...

That was a joke. They built a couple due to the stupid homogolation rules during the late 90s.

I seem to remember it had a slightly better review than the Merc CLK GTR - one of the worst road cars ever made.



They may have been, but the racing colours of the world mean little to a rich guy with money to burn looking for a car to make his manhood look better....

He isn't buying a Lexus....he is buying something that has that "it" factor.

White doesn't say "Sexy, exciting car"...it says..."efficient car to go to the market with" when you add on a Lexus badge.

If you are going to break into this market, you don't send a White LFA to the boys at Top Gear....you send one in black or red....

White with a splash of red is the traditional racing colour.

Honda call there paint scheme Championship White

Honda & Toyota F1 cars = white

Toyota Eagles WSC = white

Toyota WRC cars = white

Toyota have rich racing history and have built drivers' cars so I don't buy the pedigree argument unless you're talking about Korean cars.


Oh yeah, you're right: the last Celica did have a peppy little engine. 1.8 liter N.A with 190hp was nothing to sneeze at! I thought they had a hit on their hands. Early on, Toyota made a big deal of the fact that the design of that car was heavily influenced by a Champ Car (the AAR Eagle). But that Celica, like the previous model, eventually became known as a "secretary's car" and never caught on among enthusiasts.

LOL!

Never knew it had the same rep as in the UK! FWD MX-5!

It's a lovely car, not quite Gen 6 standards but I still love mine to bits. Handling is ace.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Japan's racing colours may be white. Still don't see too many ****ers with more money than they know what to do with buying too many white super cars....