Birds begone!

[tannat]

I work at a children's hospital in the colonies, and one place on campus that is frequently visited by the patients is a memorial garden. It is small and quaint, with flowers and waterfalls-an ideal picnic spot.

It is also visited by a number of passerine species (i.e. blackbirds, grackles, jays, etc). A test of their guano showed it positive for histoplasmosis, and certainly there is the potential for other infectious agents.

Question: Do any of you knowe of a non-invasive way (remember, this is a children's hospital) of ridding the birds permanently?

Any ideas would be helpful, and thanks!

Tannat

[Eki]

I work at a children's hospital in the colonies, and one place on campus that is frequently visited by the patients is a memorial garden. It is small and quaint, with flowers and waterfalls-an ideal picnic spot.

It is also visited by a number of passerine species (i.e. blackbirds, grackles, jays, etc). A test of their guano showed it positive for histoplasmosis, and certainly there is the potential for other infectious agents.

Question: Do any of you knowe of a non-invasive way (remember, this is a children's hospital) of ridding the birds permanently?

Any ideas would be helpful, and thanks!

Tannat
I'd rather try to get rid of histoplasmosis in the birds. I think birds belong to a garden. Maybe some antifungal medication in their food?

[tannat]

I'd rather try to get rid of histoplasmosis in the birds. I think birds belong to a garden. Maybe some antifungal medication in their food?


I agree-I hate to get rid of them in a way, but ridding a variable population of an infectious agent will never be 100%.

I like birds....

[Bob Riebe]

I agree-I hate to get rid of them in a way, but ridding a variable population of an infectious agent will never be 100%.

I like birds....
The ONLY way to rid yourself of these birds is to kill them.
You can limit them by destroying their nests, but they will build again.

I had Grackles and Starlings to the point of being pooped on was likely,so I took a BB gun, genuine BB not pellet, and killed a fair number pre-young ones.
They did not disappear, but the numbers were never at problem state again.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Would a bird of prey on campus pick-up the same infection?

[tannat]

Would a bird of prey on campus pick-up the same infection?

That is being discussed ;)

[donKey jote]

Meow ? :D

[tannat]

Meow ? :D

Being discussed as well :laugh:

[Daniel]

Bird of prey is my bet too.

[mjh]

I assume before you go into seek and destroy mode, I assume someone has actually done a risk assessment?

i.e. does the presence of the infectious agents translate to a risk to the patients that necessitates action?

My personal suggestion for action would be get a grip and leave the birds alone.

[anthonyvop]

Blackbirds, grackles and jays tend to be opportunistic and omnivorous feeders. They are also attracted to water sources.
They most probably have found a good source of food. Check to make sure somebody isn't feeding them when your not around.

[Daniel]

I assume before you go into seek and destroy mode, I assume someone has actually done a risk assessment?

i.e. does the presence of the infectious agents translate to a risk to the patients that necessitates action?

My personal suggestion for action would be get a grip and leave the birds alone.

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoplasmosis

[Eki]

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoplasmosis


It is not practical to test or decontaminate most sites that may be contaminated with H. capsulatum, but the following sources list environments where histoplasmosis is common, and precautions to reduce a person's risk of exposure, in the three parts of the world where the disease is prevalent. Precautions common to all geographical locations would be to avoid accumulations of bird or bat droppings.
The government of the USA provides a document, Histoplasmosis: Protecting Workers at Risk, which contains information on work practices and personal protective equipment that will reduce the risk of infection.

I think the best way to go is to clean and disinfect the area from bird droppings regularly.

[mjh]

Huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoplasmosis


H. capsulatum grows in soil and material contaminated with bird or bat droppings (guano). The fungus has been found in poultry house litter, caves, areas harboring bats, and in bird roosts (particularly those of starlings). The fungus is thermally dimorphic: in the environment it grows as a brownish mycelium, and at body temperature (37 °C in humans) it morphs into a yeast. The inoculum is represented principally by microconidia that, once inhaled into the alveolar spaces, germinate and then transform into budding yeast cells. Histoplasmosis is not contagious, but is contracted by inhalation of the spores from disturbed soil or guano.[2]

So the risk comes from spores. The spores come from the fungus. The fungus appears to be prevalent in areas with significant build-ups of guano such as roosting areas (as much as you can trust wiki for robust scientific information, it does imply that the odd poop here and there isn't likely to be a risk, happy to be proved wrong). The risk to persons is primarily (from the 'Histoplasmosis: Protecting Workers at Risk' document) to those likely to be disturbing contaminated soil / droppings.

So my comment stands. Has a scientific risk assessment been done?

You can 'huh' all you like......before we start advocating killing things, or even displacing them from a suitable habitat, I'd like to think someone checked whether it was necessary. It would appear supervising the kids when outside to ensure they don't start digging around in bird pooh might be all that is required. In fact I'd be inclined to do that with sick kids, regardless of whether or not their is a risk of histoplasmosis. Birds / cats / rats - even humans!- carry all sorts of infections, and it's impractical to disinfect every inch of the garden, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Jag_Warrior]

Bird of prey is my bet too.

I've heard that several smaller/local airports are now using birds of prey to clear the area of birds.

[Daniel]

Yeah they do it here too. Really pisses the other birds off

[Hondo]

I've heard that several smaller/local airports are now using birds of prey to clear the area of birds.

I hope they don't use Bald Eagles. When the new Denver airport opened up years ago, me and 6 other aircraft were stuck circling the airport because there were "protected" Bald Eagles on the runway and it was against the law to shoo them off. We spent about 45 minutes circling watching fuel gauges and eagles until they finally flew away.

[Eki]

Here's an ultrasonic bird repeller:

http://www.bird-x.com/quad-blaster-qb4-p-13.html

Some visual scare devices:

http://www.birdstoppers.com/site/439038/page/580380

http://www.bird-x.com/

Don't know if those work though.

[tannat]

I assume before you go into seek and destroy mode, I assume someone has actually done a risk assessment?

i.e. does the presence of the infectious agents translate to a risk to the patients that necessitates action?

My personal suggestion for action would be get a grip and leave the birds alone.

I hear you, mjh.

In this environment where many children are on immunosuppressive treatment-no risks are taken, whatsoever.

Perhaps you are right and maybe there is a very very small risk to patients, but the very very small risk is enough to warrant action.

[tannat]

I think the best way to go is to clean and disinfect the area from bird droppings regularly.

This is definitely in place, Eki. Evidently the volume of guano has gotten worse of late, not to mention that it is occurring in one of the 'hallowed' places on campus which has initiated this round of action.

[tannat]

Here's an ultrasonic bird repeller:

http://www.bird-x.com/quad-blaster-qb4-p-13.html

Some visual scare devices:

http://www.birdstoppers.com/site/439038/page/580380

http://www.bird-x.com/

Don't know if those work though.

Someone has mentioned ultrasonics must be species specific-and we are looking into those.

Also we might install some barn owl mimics to scare them off.

Appreciate everyone's input-thanks!

[mjh]

I hear you, mjh.

In this environment where many children are on immunosuppressive treatment-no risks are taken, whatsoever.

Perhaps you are right and maybe there is a very very small risk to patients, but the very very small risk is enough to warrant action.

Then I would have to say, ethically, the options are use bird scarers to deter the birds or remove the children from the garden. Neither is ideal really :(

[I mean, meeting my ethics, not suggesting anyone else should hold the same values!]

[tannat]

Then I would have to say, ethically, the options are use bird scarers to deter the birds or remove the children from the garden. Neither is ideal really :(

[I mean, meeting my ethics, not suggesting anyone else should hold the same values!]

Indeed it has been voiced that having the birds is a good thing in one respect-the patients really enjoy seeing them as they hyave very little contact with the outside.

Another of those catch 22 situations..