Vettel = Mr Nice Guy?

[wedge]

Brundle once said Vettel set a new standard for niceness but what with some of his aggressive driving tactics and a chance to a win WDC, it seems the kid has learnt why F1 is sometimes called the Piranha Club:


"Sometimes good and bad you get to know people a little better and see their true faces. So I think I have learned my lesson and focus on myself."

[ioan]

It was bound to happen. He can't be nice forever while others keep being rude.

[I am evil Homer]

I'm sure to the press and cameras he's all smiles...might be a whole different story in the motorhome. Or maybe he's realise he can't have it all his own way despite the team's intentions

[ShiftingGears]

Happens to most drivers when they're not winning.

[F1boat]

IMO he was never a nice guy. He crashed into Mark even in STR. He demands to be let trough and never thinks about other guys on track.
He is, however, a very good driver.

[Daniel]

I'm sure to the press and cameras he's all smiles...might be a whole different story in the motorhome. Or maybe he's realise he can't have it all his own way despite the team's intentions

I don't quite get why people are saying this. People seem to forget that Lewis gave Vettel a puncture in the first corner so regardless of new wing or not for Webber or Vettel, Vettel was always going to be heading to the back of the pack. Webber didn't beat Vettel to the chequered flag in an even race because the two never got the chance to duel it out on track.

I think some people are guilty of seeing this as more than it actually is.

[Daniel]

IMO he was never a nice guy. He crashed into Mark even in STR. He demands to be let trough and never thinks about other guys on track.
He is, however, a very good driver.
I never knew Webber drove for STR and crashed into himself?

[Sonic]

I think that the Vet is becoming as much a victim in this as Webbs. Certainly he's not quite the man we had been led to believe he was but he ain't exactly Mr Nasty either. Horner is doing a fantastic job of screwing both of his drivers the chance at the title and is the villan in this story IMO.

[AndyL]

I don't quite get why people are saying this. People seem to forget that Lewis gave Vettel a puncture in the first corner so regardless of new wing or not for Webber or Vettel, Vettel was always going to be heading to the back of the pack. Webber didn't beat Vettel to the chequered flag in an even race because the two never got the chance to duel it out on track.

Webber did beat Vettel over the short distance that was an even race between them. But I guess you're right in the sense that if Vettel hadn't suffered the puncture, then the team could have successfully manipulated a Vettel win with pit strategy.
So yes, Vettel probably can have his own way most of the time, if that's the team's intention. And Webber is going to need to stay lucky if he's to win against both his teammate and his own team management.

[ShiftingGears]

I think that the Vet is becoming as much a victim in this as Webbs. Certainly he's not quite the man we had been led to believe he was but he ain't exactly Mr Nasty either. Horner is doing a fantastic job of screwing both of his drivers the chance at the title and is the villan in this story IMO.

:up:

[Easy Drifter]

Vettel is as hard nosed and nasty as anyone in F1. Maybe not as prone to make silly mistakes as Mark but just a nasty.
Some reports say he and Hamilton hit while others say the puncture was from going over the curb.
There is rarely a race where there is not some contact among the leaders, and the in entire field in the first few corners. It is rarely intentional. If someone even twitches the field is so close the domino effect almost ensures there will be contact.

[Daniel]

Well we did see a good 1000 yards of racing between Seb and Mark up to Becketts and Mark got a better start and the inside line from Vettel. I think if Seb had not driven over Hamilton's front wing and got a puncture, we would have seen two teammates who would have eventually taken each other out. I can't see Mark giving any space after the shafting he received the previous day. We may have even seen a British winner afterall lol.. :)
Yes but 1000 yards is hardly a race.

[Daniel]

I did find it amusing when Vettel suggested the theory that maybe Hamilton had hit him on purpose, but I think it was meant as a joke. Vettel knows as well as anyone else how fragile a front wing is and no driver in third place is going to risk a slow cruise back to the pits on the first lap from a deliberate damaging move.
Listen, I expect better from you. This is a lie! vettel did NOT say that! in fact he is quoted as saying the exact opposite....

[Daniel]

The proof http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/11/vettel-he-didnt-mean-to-give-me-a-puncture/


He probably achieved what he wanted to achieve in Valencia! But I’m sure he didn’t mean to give me a puncture.

[Daniel]

just ask Fernando.

I'd rather not. I get enough whining and whinging from the end users I support at work.... :mark:

[Daniel]

Hence my insinuation that it was a bit of a joke.. I agree with you on this so DON'T call me a liar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8808172.stm
He clearly said "surely he didn't mean to give me a puncture"

Liar maybe not, but you've tried to create something that was never said.

[Daniel]

You said


Vettel suggested the theory that maybe Hamilton had hit him on purpose

Vettel said


I’m sure he didn’t mean to give me a puncture.

[N. Jones]

Brundle once said Vettel set a new standard for niceness but what with some of his aggressive driving tactics and a chance to a win WDC, it seems the kid has learnt why F1 is sometimes called the Piranha Club:

He's aggressive, Webber's aggressive. Both are in a fast car and both want to win the WDC. They are teammates and their team publicly does not believe in team orders or which driver is No. 1 & 2.

It all adds up to controversy and the comments we are now seeing.

I don't see a problem here.

[ioan]

I think that the Vet is becoming as much a victim in this as Webbs. Certainly he's not quite the man we had been led to believe he was but he ain't exactly Mr Nasty either. Horner is doing a fantastic job of screwing both of his drivers the chance at the title and is the villan in this story IMO.

Hear, hear!

[ioan]

I did find it amusing when Vettel suggested the theory that maybe Hamilton had hit him on purpose, but I think it was meant as a joke. Vettel knows as well as anyone else how fragile a front wing is and no driver in third place is going to risk a slow cruise back to the pits on the first lap from a deliberate damaging move.

I find it amusing the lengths Webber fans will go to twist Vettel's words into something worthy of being a column in 'The Sun'.

[ioan]

The proof http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/11/vettel-he-didnt-mean-to-give-me-a-puncture/

Thanks for that! :up:

[ioan]

"he achieved here what he failed to do in Valencia...

Intention from Lewis' part is not implied anywhere in that sentence.
I always thought that the ones who speak English as mother tongue do understand plain English, obviously I was wrong.

[Daniel]

"he achieved here what he failed to do in Valencia *Smiles*, but I'm sure he didn't mean to give me a puncture, in case if it was like that? *smiles*"

Sorry Daniel but I enjoyed what I saw as a hinted bit of amusement there whether you like it or not. He wasn't serious, and its really not worth wasting 5 posts discussing it. Its my opinion and I know you hate people not respecting others opinions, so if you disagree i this instance, lets leave it as that.. :)

yes but he CLEARLY said "I'M SURE HE DIDN'T MEAN TO GIVE ME A PUNCTURE"!!!!!! He never said, in Valencia he tried to give me a puncture and finally succeeded here. You're putting words into his mouth or just plain misunderstanding what he said.

The test of a person is how they react when they make a mistake and are caught out. Do they

A admit that they made a mistake (as well all do)
or
B make up some cock n bull story about how someone was trying to say what they clearly didn't say.

[Daniel]

Intention from Lewis' part is not implied anywhere in that sentence.
I always thought that the ones who speak English as mother tongue do understand plain English, obviously I was wrong.

This is stupid. 2 people who aren't the biggest Hamilton fans are coming out saying that Hamilton hasn't tried to give Vettel a puncture on purpose either here or in Valencia and that Vettel didn't imply that he did which is clearly backed up by video footage of his statement. This is just ridiculous in the extreme. If Hamilton had tried to give Vettel a puncture I'd be the first one to come down on him like a tonne of bricks and no doubt Vettel would also come out and use the strongest language possible given that it's his neck on the line.

Henners rightly points out that Vettel tripped over the front wing of Hamilton and then presumably because of some pro-Webber bias tries to make out that Vettel is accusing Hamilton of giving him a puncture on purpose? :confused:

[Daniel]

For the third time in this thread Vettel did NOT seriously imply that Lewis had deliberately given him a puncture.

He didn't imply it at all!

[Mia 01]

It was the best move Lewis did in the race, that is for his own Championship.

[Mia 01]

Steering to the right is quite an unorthodox method for taking Copse at the best of times.. :p

Really, for Lewis, he was thinking very carefully of that move. As we know, he is a very fast thinker, I admire him.

[Old Eyes]

I think that the Vet is becoming as much a victim in this as Webbs. Certainly he's not quite the man we had been led to believe he was but he ain't exactly Mr Nasty either. Horner is doing a fantastic job of screwing both of his drivers the chance at the title and is the villan in this story IMO.

What he said.

[Valve Bounce]

It was bound to happen. He can't be nice forever while others keep being rude.

Yeah! making those loony gestures after he caused the crash in Turkey was being nice.

[Valve Bounce]

Hear, hear!

What did you hear? :confused:

[markabilly]

yeah Vettel took pole and gave the inside advantage to webber.....what are freinds for....

[Saint Devote]

Lewis did not make any contact with Vettel.

He caused his own puncture by driving aggressively over the kerb and then again as a result of the puncture.

[PSfan]

Lewis did not make any contact with Vettel.

He caused his own puncture by driving aggressively over the kerb and then again as a result of the puncture.

Um, Lewis did make contact and it shows from his onboard (It was on Speedtv's the speed report last night)

[Saint Devote]

Um, Lewis did make contact and it shows from his onboard (It was on Speedtv's the speed report last night)

Lewis nor Vettel mentioned it in their immediate post race interviews.

I guess its possible they touched if Vettel went too close to Lewis in his flustered state.

Haven't seen anything reported on Autosport - I reserve my judgement until Thurs.

[Daniel]

Lewis nor Vettel mentioned it in their immediate post race interviews.

Errrrr. Vettel did mention it...

[ArrowsFA1]

"Sometimes good and bad you get to know people a little better and see their true faces. So I think I have learned my lesson and focus on myself."
I'm not sure what Seb is getting at here. By "people" and "their true faces" is he referring to his team-mate? What lesson did he learn at Silverstone?

[Valve Bounce]

Well judging by his hugs and handshakes with the team management post race, I'll put my bet on it being Webber. Clever internal politics, although I think Seb has realised Webber isn't the pushover that was maybe promised to him in the contract meeting. He's got an experienced fast teammate who is capable of winning races and has brought the unfair treatment into the media spot light. Everyone is watching this relationship unfold and it'll be difficult for the team to call strategy in favour of Vettel from now on without direct questioning IMO.

I know I condemned Webber in Valencia and backed him over this latest incident, but I still prayed for his engine to fail at Silverstone.. :p

I like Webber but do I want him to win the WDC? No.

Typical Pom. :rolleyes:

[Saint Devote]

Well judging by his hugs and handshakes with the team management post race, I'll put my bet on it being Webber. Clever internal politics, although I think Seb has realised Webber isn't the pushover that was maybe promised to him in the contract meeting. He's got an experienced fast teammate who is capable of winning races and has brought the unfair treatment into the media spot light. Everyone is watching this relationship unfold and it'll be difficult for the team to call strategy in favour of Vettel from now on without direct questioning IMO.

I know I condemned Webber in Valencia and backed him over this latest incident, but I still prayed for his engine to fail at Silverstone.. :p

I like Webber but do I want him to win the WDC? No.

Finishing first is not winning.

I adore Jense to bits as do all his real fans - but if winning depends on mechanical issues occuring to the driver ahead then it is no different to team orders and leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

At the same time no matter who the driver is, if they drove like Webber or as Hamilton did in 2008 at Silverstone - surely a drive his hero Senna would have been prioud of, I want THEM to win.

I adhere to the Williams way - winning is important and of course one will take the first place when available - but it is not the ONLY thing. How one wins is always important :vader:

[Valve Bounce]

For those who may not be aware, POM is used here in Oz as a term of endearment. :p :

[Sleeper]

Intention from Lewis' part is not implied anywhere in that sentence.
I always thought that the ones who speak English as mother tongue do understand plain English, obviously I was wrong.
Actually intention is quite clearly implied, but also very clearly ment as a joke. Its a very English sort of humour, something Vettell has caught onto quickly.

[wedge]

Actually intention is quite clearly implied, but also very clearly ment as a joke. Its a very English sort of humour, something Vettell has caught onto quickly.

He loves British comedies

[AndyL]

For those who may not be aware, POM is used here in Oz as a term of endearment. :p :

Or at least that's what you tell us poms :)

[Daniel]

Exactly, I felt the way he smiled implyed an element of dry sarcasm with his tongue firmly in his cheek. To me it was subtle, but to many they are as confused as a cluster of voles in a brown paper bag.. ;)
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/covtelegraph/jul2008/8/6/36687764-003E-CFAF-E2B7FB8239AD5CEF.jpg
:)
Sarcasm is all fine and well if he actually said that he thought Lewis hit him on purpose but he didn't.... so.

[Saint Devote]

I think my use of smiley face at the end of that sentence indicated that I was joking. I think Valve took it like that, and I hope he took it like that. Afterall Brits are usually called Poms in times of banter and jest, and I challenge you to find a single person who is offended by that word.. :)

A good example St.D of a first place driver not winning is Spa 2008. A duel of a race and a great drive, altered and awarded hours later. I would put Hamilton's performance at Spa as equal with his win at Silverstone, and Monaco of that year. I shouldn't imagine Felipe has that trophy anywhere near the front of his cabinet.. :p

I was pleased for Webber on Sunday and although I would have preferred a British winner, I also would have liked to see that achieved by driver skill alone rather than misfortune of the lead driver. I've said it before if either Lewis or Jenson fail to clinch the WDC this season then I hope the person who does it is Mark Webber. :D

Many a true word spoken in jest.......

I understand what you did in your post. Figuring out your what you are conveying in your messages is not always blatantly obvious - to me at least :eek:

[Saint Devote]

He loves British comedies

Then no doubt dear Vettel must have thought he was caught up in a Monty Python-like embrace when the chequered flag was waved on Sunday afternoon.

Probably: "And Now For Something Completely Different".

[Saint Devote]

Yep, he implyed.. not going there. :p
There was definately contact but it was very light but enough to cause a puncture. Vettel took Copse as he would if nobody was up the inside and basically steered into the side of Lewis's front wing. A minor racing incident really and something Lewis may have forgotten about in his post race interview. He may also not have realised at that point that it was his contact which screwed up Vettel's race as Seb himself had to be told after the race about the contact.

These front wings do appear to be pretty sharp and have caused a fair few punctures this season. The side skirts also seem to have this affect, for example when Massa and Alonso touched each other going through Maggots and Becketts and Felipe ended up with a shreaded rear tyre. :)

A driver being coy? No.

I'd say that it was his bad driving over the kerb that punctured a tyre - it was after all only the second time he went off that the car destablized.

Whatever the case, Vettel was his own undoing from the lights on Sunday.

[Saint Devote]

So Vettel believes that Webber should not have gone public and Nick Fry from Mercedes weighing in reckons the drivers have to realize that drivers are not in charge.

If Mark said nothing publicly then exctly who would have LOOKED like a number 2 driver and who who have been tabled as the number 1? And it would have seemed that Webber had acquiesed.

Behind that facade Vettel is no different to Bernie - his close confidente and de facto manager - and Webber must always go public because certainly the team management is not there for him while the fans ARE.

Nick Fry is joking surely? Has he not heard of MICHAEL SCHUMACHER and that little issue a few weeks ago where Mercedes altered the wheelbase despite Rosberg doing pretty well with it?

[Saint Devote]

............whatever the case, Vettel didn't do himself any favours on Sunday. :)

And that is how championships are lost. Perhaps he ought to go have a chat with Jenson.

[Saint Devote]

I can only apologise for my cryptic posts and will make sure in future I adopt a more intelligible approach. I suppose the perfect post is almost like a rule of thirds.

1. Strong opinion on subject.
2. Historical content, or quote from a driver of an era past.
3. Strong, slightly insulting ending.

I'll certainly take your advice onboard and if I can get the words "Lauda", or "Scheckter" in any of my writings, I'll be on to a winner. :)

Thats much better - now you're blatantly obvious :eek:

[wedge]

Nick Fry is joking surely? Has he not heard of MICHAEL SCHUMACHER and that little issue a few weeks ago where Mercedes altered the wheelbase despite Rosberg doing pretty well with it?

Nothing to do with favouritism. The weight distribution was wrong.

[Sonic]

Nothing to do with favouritism. The weight distribution was wrong.

Indeed. Nico wanted the change just as much because whilst he could drive round the flaws better than old man time, he wanted a faster car. Period. He's still getting the better of him now and all credit to him.

[Daniel]

Indeed. Nico wanted the change just as much because whilst he could drive round the flaws better than old man time, he wanted a faster car. Period. He's still getting the better of him now and all credit to him.
Can you please stop ruining a good story? :p

[Garry Walker]

It was bound to happen. He can't be nice forever while others keep being rude.

Vettel never was nice. He is in fact the fakest person in F1. This "nice guy" angle is taken seriously only by his most hardcore fanboys. The guy is a prick and his behaviour at Turkey and after was the best example of it.

[Saint Devote]

Nothing to do with favouritism. The weight distribution was wrong.

Oh yeah?
And the current iteration has been a VASTLY improved "b" spec!

Looks like they are confused - well not Brittney.

It may not have been favoritism per se - but given Rosberg's performance, if Schumi had not been unhappy then there would have been no change.

[Saint Devote]

Indeed. Nico wanted the change just as much because whilst he could drive round the flaws better than old man time, he wanted a faster car. Period. He's still getting the better of him now and all credit to him.

Brittany went along with it - he had no other option anyway.

The deciding factor was Schumi because he prefers a longer wheelbase car which allows the car to become extremely "pointy" to the degree that historically other drivers would term it uncontrollable.

"Old man time"? You mean like the incompetent performances of Fisichella which led the biggest Italian sporting newspaper to lead with a criticism of him that made him blubber like a little girl?

Schumi has nothing to be embarassed about - its early days yet.

[Saint Devote]

Vettel never was nice. He is in fact the fakest person in F1. This "nice guy" angle is taken seriously only by his most hardcore fanboys. The guy is a prick and his behaviour at Turkey and after was the best example of it.

It depends how one defines "nice guy". If it is as an "after you Claude" then of course he is not.

Every single driver has to be single minded and wants the "unfair advantage" as the late Mark Donahue phrased it.

It takes time for teammates to finalize a relationship and that is why the team management is so vital. Prost-Lauda managed it themselves / Prost-Senna could not and Dennis totally did what Horner looks to be doing.

Its like any elite unit that acts on the edges, whether in the military or in sports. Relationships and good command - without that it will never work no matter how well or highly trained.

[Mekola]

I will respect if he agreeds to give Webber a chance to champ. Mark is veteran while Sebastian could grab the title in further seasons.

[Saint Devote]

I will respect if he agreeds to give Webber a chance to champ. Mark is veteran while Sebastian could grab the title in further seasons.

That is a nice thought - problem is in motor racing a driver can go years without a competitive car as happened to Jenson.

So, a driver has to try and make full use of all opportunities.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm in the minority on the Vettel good/bad guy debate as I think drivers should speak their minds once in a while. The same people who are condemning Webber for speaking out, are denying Vettel has done the same in a whirlwind of hypocrisy. We've had a few seasons now where people who have over analysed Lewis Hamilton's post race interviews to sculpt a stance that he's blaming his team or teammate, and yet of late we've had a handful of drivers who have been justifiably openly emotional and have escaped the same criticism.

Is Vettel a nice guy? None of us know because nobody other than those close have the experience of his true character. Is Vettel a highly competitive, and sometimes emotional racing driver who is selfish in his own ability in the desire to win? Yes, just like all the top drivers, but with each driver there comes a different type of fan, and we're always going to have debates like this as long as a person ignores the traits in all the other drivers who participate in this great sport.. :)

I think his looney gestures after the incident in Turkey when he deliberately steered his car at Webber speaks volumes for Vettel, more than anything he may have said. Basically, he is a treacherous duplicitous team mate, and I certainly would not like to have a colleague like that in my workplace.

[wedge]

Brittany went along with it - he had no other option anyway.

The deciding factor was Schumi because he prefers a longer wheelbase car which allows the car to become extremely "pointy" to the degree that historically other drivers would term it uncontrollable.

The weight distribution was wrong because MGP miscalculated the fuel tank variable.

Longer wheelbase does not necessarily make a car pointy. What MGP have done was to alter the front suspension geometry to allow more weight at the front, which in turn altered the wheelbase.

[Garry Walker]

I will respect if he agreeds to give Webber a chance to champ. Mark is veteran while Sebastian could grab the title in further seasons.

It does not work like that. F1 is not charity, no sport is. No athlete would ever do as you suggested Vettel do, no serious one anyway
Have you ever done any sports?

[naitsabes]

I like Sebastian Vettel the best, but I like all the drivers. I don't think anybody is any nicer or meaner than the others. They are all just human. Competition makes you hyper, so that is why sometimes I think they get really happy or really cranky.