Poll request: Did Vettel deserve to get the wing?

[wedge]

Vettel had more points in the WDC, or should it have stayed with Webber?

Wonder if anyone can make a decision without the benefit of hindsight!

[turismo6]

Should have stayed with Webber. Unless it was mathematical impossible (or highly improbable) for Webber to be WDC.

[markabilly]

my answer to a similar question...



Let me just ask the two of you this question:"If the situation was reversed, and Horner wanted to give Mark Webber the undamaged wing from Vettel's car, do you think that Mark Webber would have accepted Vettel's wing?"


If we are talking next race, based on the photo, he might take it and shove it up vettel's butt...

Based on reports from Friday after practice, neither driver wanted it....and it is not clear why it broke, so MArk might have thought he was getting the shaft from Horner and said, no, but he would not be saying because of kindness to Vettel or a sense of fair play

.

If I were Vettel, I would have said no....why take the chance of another bust

Reality is that most likely neither driver had a choice...the team does the cars, and the drivers drive. Period.

The better question is like the one posed by the FA crash in practice at Monaco, why did ferrari not take massa's car and give it to FA to qualify???? :confused:

What would red bull do??

If you ask the driver without a car to take it, NO DRIVER IS GOING TO SAY NO, I would rather go smoke a cigarette and watch, not Mark and not Vettel.....which is why it should always be a bossman decision, not a driver's choice
:dozey:
what would red bull do?? well, I don't know.....


Vettel had more points in the WDC, or should it have stayed with Webber?

Wonder if anyone can make a decision without the benefit of hindsight!


No, and given the small difference if any, (based on qing times, which would assume everything else was absolutely the same, which it probably was not), it seems the issue from Webber is one of prinicple rather than substance of the wing actually amking any difference...Indeed, stuck with the new wing, webber might have even been slower...so who is to say??

Reminds me of children who always want what the other child has....notwithstanding what they got, might actually be better...

[Daniel]

No henners. Everytime a little bit of news surfaces we NEED another thread. Ditto when someone has a new opinion.

[ioan]

Do we actually need 7 threads discussing 'Not bad for a number two, Did Vettel deserve the wing, Webbers half of the garage bla bla bla'.... Its getting tedious now.

The original thread started by Markabilly is sufficient to cover the whole sorry saga IMO.. :)

:up:


No henners. Everytime a little bit of news surfaces we NEED another thread. Ditto when someone has a new opinion.

:D ;)

[Daniel]

Henners and Ioan agree....... Scary stuff :p

[ioan]

The question is another one, IMO:

Why didn't RBR have enough spares available?

[ioan]

Henners and Ioan agree....... Scary stuff :p

Must be the heat, it's something like 42 degrees right now here.
:laugh:

[Daniel]

Ioan, can we have another thread about why RB didn't have more than 2 wings.

[ioan]

Ioan, can we have another thread about why RB didn't have more than 2 wings.

No. :p :
I think pino will thank us for not doing it. :D

[wedge]

All I wanted was just a poll and nothing else. Some people will want to put their 2 cents and can't be bothered to read pages and pages of tittle tattle.

[ioan]

All I wanted was just a poll and nothing else. Some people will want to put their 2 cents and can't be bothered to read pages and pages of tittle tattle.

Don't be upset. I even voted in your pole! :)

[wedge]

I'm not upset!

I'm upset that Daniel feels upset because my MO was for a poll - first a foremost.

If it makes Daniel feel more happy then ask Pino to disable the reply function for this thread.

[Daniel]

I don't think you did anything wrong wedge, polls always deserve a thread of their own :) it's the 3 or 4 threads on the same topic that annoy people.

P.s I'm upset that you're upset that I'm upset :p

[Ranger]

Vettel had more points in the WDC, or should it have stayed with Webber?

Wonder if anyone can make a decision without the benefit of hindsight!

If there was only 1 wing this weekend it should have gone to Vettel.

There were 2 wings. Vettel's failed. Tough luck.

Physically removing the wing off Webber's car and handing it to Vettel was the problem.

[Daniel]

If there was only 1 wing this weekend it should have gone to Vettel.

There were 2 wings. Vettel's failed. Tough luck.

Physically removing the wing off Webber's car and handing it to Vettel was the problem.
Are you guys still bitching about this? Webber won. Perhaps even won because he didn't have the other wing. Perhaps because of the anger....

What he needs to do now is build a bridge and get over it lest he start racing his team mate or trying to hinder vettel's championship rather than driving his own races.

What happened before qualifying wasn't nice and perhaps wasn't fair but it's in the past now. Especially now that he won the race.

[F1boat]

No, Red Bull showed how pathetic they are.

[GOODSPEED]

Red Bull Gives you wings but it should have let Webber keep it.

[Allyc85]

No, no, no no, no!

[Anderton]

Terrible thing for RBR to do. It's caused a huge rift within the team, and it has left spectators questioning the running of the team.
Bad move from Horner.

[tmx]

Judgment of Solomon, each driver gets half of the wing.

[Valve Bounce]

It will put people off drinking that awful Red Bull goop. :eek:

[markabilly]

Well, I just decided to vote yes, after seeing a utube or whatever, of the start....

Everyone assumes it was better to be on the pole and not on the dirty side.

However, what is clear is that it is short drive from the start line into the slight left hander, and being on the inside has a real advantage, because the speeds are not that high, and one does not need to be on the right side to go left at max speed....

and if you are second, fourth, and sixth, you can go in real hard on THE INSIDE

Indeed, it appears that very little, if any, braking was necessary on the start through that first corner, and the cars appearred to be still gaining speed through the corners---and FA who was third on the grid lost out, but hamilton did not, the Kube was also on the dirty side and also profited,

Those at the front on the left, seemed to all get hung out to dry on the outside as they went off through the first corner........

So if having the nose meant pole, seems that Vettel would have been better off without the pole and nose, and would be celebrating a victory, unless webber chopped him real good, and may be took both of them out...


so I say maybe vettel deserved the nose after all, and Webber should be glad that he had to give it up.....

[Valve Bounce]

Henners and Ioan agree....... Scary stuff :p

I agree also. It's just divisive that we have so many threads where people post variations of the same thing.

I'd also like to hear some journo ask Mark Webber if the situation was reversed, what would have been his reaction.

[Ranger]

Are you guys still bitching about this? Webber won. Perhaps even won because he didn't have the other wing. Perhaps because of the anger....

What he needs to do now is build a bridge and get over it lest he start racing his team mate or trying to hinder vettel's championship rather than driving his own races.

What happened before qualifying wasn't nice and perhaps wasn't fair but it's in the past now. Especially now that he won the race.

That was just my opinion as to why the whole thing blew out.

[Valve Bounce]

Webber won. Perhaps even won because he didn't have the other wing. Perhaps because of the anger....

What he needs to do now is build a bridge and get over it lest he start racing his team mate or trying to hinder vettel's championship rather than driving his own races.

What happened before qualifying wasn't nice and perhaps wasn't fair but it's in the past now. Especially now that he won the race.

I totally agree. Webber needs to focus on his game and maybe this whole fiasco will act as extra incentive for him to win.

[Valve Bounce]

To be fair, Vettel was plunged into a predicament not of his own making, but through the connivance of Chris Horner.

Thinking back, Vettel probably didn't need the new wing, nor did he need the ill feeling this whole episode created within the RBR pits and with Mark Webber.

Had he declined the wing from Webber's car, it is quite possible that Vettel could have gained pole position anyway, and he probably would have won, or at least come second if he still had a bad start.

To make things worse, the bad publicity would have affected Red Bull Brand. And now, there appears to be this huge split which I doubt could ever be mended.

Yes! there were losers at Silverstone: Horner, Marco, Vettel, and any team spirit within Team RBR. I doubt team owner Dietrich Mateschitz would be ecstatic about all this nonsense within his team.

[ArrowsFA1]

I doubt team owner Dietrich Mateschitz would be ecstatic about all this nonsense within his team.
Given the media coverage given over to all of this, let alone the number of threads and posts in F1 forums everywhere, mentioning his product I'm not so sure about that :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Given the media coverage given over to all of this, let alone the number of threads and posts in F1 forums everywhere, mentioning his product I'm not so sure about that :p :

If there are a zillion mentions that Red Bull is shyte, I don't think it would increase consumption. :eek:

[Mark]

They are of course employees and they need to do as they are told; after all the wings belong to the team, not the drivers.

However it's been a good way to completely destroy morale in the team in one fell swoop!

Just because of this I hope Webber wins the championship!

[Valve Bounce]

They are of course employees and they need to do as they are told; after all the wings belong to the team, not the drivers.

However it's been a good way to completely destroy morale in the team in one fell swoop!

Just because of this I hope Webber wins the championship!

I don't believe this is so. What is Horner going to do if Vettel told him he preferred not to use the new wing? Just because you are an employee of a firm doesn't mean you have to do what you believe is unconscionable.

If push came to shove, I would say that Vettel's position in the team is more solid than Horner's.

[markabilly]

I don't believe this is so. What is Horner going to do if Vettel told him he preferred not to use the new wing? Just because you are an employee of a firm doesn't mean you have to do what you believe is unconscionable.

If push came to shove, I would say that Vettel's position in the team is more solid than Horner's.
Get off of it....If webber had the choice, he would have taken the wing.
You keep harping and trying to say well, webber would not lower himself...get real.

There is only one driver that was at the top of F1, that might not have taken the wing, if the choice to make it was his, and that was Jimmy Clark

and even funnier is that you say this about Webber, which is an insult to someone like Clark, as webber:
1. in Turkey refused to give an inch to his team mate, and crashed out rather than yield,
2. and from pure impatience, crashed into HK trying to pass him, and tried to blame it on him for being in a slow car......

3. and then in this race, pushed Vettel out onto the run off, without a second thought.........

4. and then the photo you link with his angry stare at vettel, says it all, along with all of his other talk....

be humble in victory, proud in defeat.....webber is just neither, and those actions say exactly what he would do, without question


Just because you are an employee of a firm doesn't mean you have to do what you believe is unconscionable.


That is more fantasy......it was not like they were asking him to go kill somebody, or sell drugs, or even to go crash out, so his team mate could win a race......

I will tell that to my boss, the next time, he asks me to do something which I disagree with....no, i need the job too much, something which webber does not, as he is more than willing to bite the hand that feeds him, even when it gives him victory...

[Valve Bounce]

Get off of it....If webber had the choice, he would have taken the wing.
You keep harping and trying to say well, webber would not lower himself...get real.

There is only one driver that was at the top of F1, that might not have taken the wing, if the choice to make it was his, and that was Jimmy Clark

and even funnier is that you say this about Webber, which is an insult to someone like Clark, as webber:
1. in Turkey refused to give an inch to his team mate, and crashed out rather than yield,
2. and from pure impatience, crashed into HK trying to pass him, and tried to blame it on him for being in a slow car......

3. and then in this race, pushed Vettel out onto the run off, without a second thought.........

4. and then the photo you link with his angry stare at vettel, says it all, along with all of his other talk....

be humble in victory, proud in defeat.....webber is just neither, and those actions say exactly what he would do, without question



That is more fantasy......it was not like they were asking him to go kill somebody, or sell drugs, or even to go crash out, so his team mate could win a race......

I will tell that to my boss, the next time, he asks me to do something which I disagree with....no, i need the job too much, something which webber does not, as he is more than willing to bite the hand that feeds him, even when it gives him victory...

Please take note that I do not share your views. You have your viewpoint, mine is different.

[Roamy]

yea the problem is they gave the wing first to webber. dumb asses now had they given it to vet in the first place because he had more point than webber then it ok. But indian giving never packs it in any discipline

[wmcot]

I don't believe this is so. What is Horner going to do if Vettel told him he preferred not to use the new wing? Just because you are an employee of a firm doesn't mean you have to do what you believe is unconscionable.

If push came to shove, I would say that Vettel's position in the team is more solid than Horner's.

I'm just glad Vettel didn't run out of tires! ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Can we assume that, as long as he continues to lead his team-mate in the WDC standings, Mark will be the first to have any new parts put on his car?

[Bagwan]

I remember Jacques being rather vocal about rear wings falling off regularly , back in the early BAR days .
While this wasn't a recurring theme for the bulls , it has been largely overlooked that the wing that Vettel had that was faster in practice wasn't attached properly .

It fell off . I didn't see any coverage , but I didn't hear that there was any question about whether he had hammered a lot of curbing , or had any punishing off-track excursions to cause it , so that may also have been a factor as well .

I imagine losing a front wing at speed would be a pretty scary episode .

[markabilly]

Can we assume that, as long as he continues to lead his team-mate in the WDC standings, Mark will be the first to have any new parts put on his car?
i think such a rule encourages even more cut throat competition between team mates and incentive to screw each other, witness what has happened here...webber not going to move over, Vettle trying to squeeze by, vettel trying to out chop chopper at the start...cars busting up for three races in a row, costing the team valuable points....and then the positions change every week depending on race result...

.....the rule should we, the boss, decide who is number one and it stays that way for the season

or everyone is equal, with two of everything and if the car's new part breaks, then we all go back to the old one....and suffer equally or the one with the busted part just sufferrs, preferably in silence

And ferrari could have switched fred with massa before qing at Monaco I think (or maybe not allowed under the rules??)---after all Fred was in the lead, and clearly faster there....but did not...

[Garry Walker]

After this only an imbecile of the very highest order would believe Red Bull give equal treatment to their drivers.

At Turkey, Webber was leading Vettel in WDC, upgrades go first to Vettel.

Funny how WDC standings were not important then.

[Saint Devote]

In today's Autosport Christian Horner spins a story - does he really think that the people who read these publications are idiots?

Exactly why does he think that the British fans cheered Webber so?

The bs he spins refers to the reason that Vettel was favored - he was ahead of Webber in the championship and that at Hockenheim next weekend, Webber will be.

He goes on to try and extend this rubbish by including Newey.

Listen Horner - it was NOT about that, and not about having only one piece of the new kit available.

It was about the "wunderkind" - not so wunder as we begin to observe the cracks - messing up and then you ordering Webber's car be downgraded so that the snot nose and tears from the other side of the garage would stop.

I cant stand Christian Horner. He has the look of a shyster and he acts like one. Obviously he has difficulty in managing strong personalities and like Obama is WAY out of his depth as a principle.

I can only imagine how people such as Chapman, Wyer and Tyrrell would view this pathetic performance of a little man tryiing to do a MAN's job.

At least now Mateschitz has stepped in and overidden the Austrian clique that oversaw the issue at Silverstone involving little Jack Horner sitting cowering in the corner with his silly nervous foot.

If RBR does NOT win at least one title this year I reckon that dear old Dieter will ensure that management heads at RBR WILL roll.

[Retro Formula 1]

In today's Autosport Christian Horner spins a story - does he really think that the people who read these publications are idiots?


Depends if he thinks the people that read these publications are the same people that post on here, he may be right :D

[Garry Walker]

The bs he spins refers to the reason that Vettel was favored - he was ahead of Webber in the championship and that at Hockenheim next weekend, Webber will be.

In that case, why was Vettel given the updates earlier at Turkey than Webber, despite being behind in standings?
horner is a BS master, but I put most blame on that jerk Helmut marko

[Valve Bounce]

Do we have a LINK PLEASE?

[Daniel]

Do we have a LINK PLEASE?
Autosport.com