"Not BAD for a Number Two Driver"!!!

[markabilly]

well, Brutus.....err I mean Webber has done let loose with that shot which should be heard around the world.... :eek:

and echo on into eternity

Go ahead Webber, tell them what you think, you deserve it today

[woody2goody]

Justice has been done today, and I'm really happy that it has been.

Red Bull deserved everything they got today for trying to engineer a title for vettel without making him earn it.

People can say whatever they like about the favouritism shown to Schumi over the years, but at least he earned it and wasn't given it for no apparent reason.

[Dave B]

It was a race of karma, with Webber besting his team mate and Alonso revealing himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order. :up:

[markabilly]

and now Mark Anthony...err I mean Horner is giving us a speech in his interveiw that truly reminds me of the eulogy for vestall...err I mean ceaser....

[Garry Walker]

It was a race of karma, with Webber besting his team mate and Alonso revealing himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order. :up:

How did Alonso do that (I am not doubting he did, he has shown it many times before, but I was at the beach, so therefore havent seen the race)

[Garry Walker]

This is just so grand and nice that Vettel suffered a problem and Webber won. poetic justice for Red Bulls attempts to screw him.

[UltimateDanGTR]

justice indeed. Webber has been sublime all weekend, he deserves nothing less than 1st.

[woody2goody]

I also am fully with Eddie Jordan when he said that Horner wasn't genuine to Webber after the race. It was obvious to me that the 'wrong car' won for RBR today.

[Dave B]

So what happens next race? Red Bull claim that Vettel was favoured only because he was ahead in the championship, no other reason. Now the boot's on t'other foot, they'll have to play by their own rules and favour Webber. Won't they?

[markabilly]

.....and meanwhile both Button and Lewis are quietly riding off into the sunset....while RBR tries to figure out who stabbed ceaser



Really, the point positions should be reversed as to LH/Jb and MW/SV, but RBR has just seemed to crunch it at the wrong time

[wedge]

Alonso revealing himself to be a hypocrite of the highest order. :up:

Explain

[Dave B]

Explain
Wah-wah-wah-ing about Lewis in Valencia then trying to take advantage of the Kubica situation here. He got penalised, just as Lewis did, but threw his toys out of the pram. He can dish it out, but can't take it.

[Garry Walker]

So what happens next race? Red Bull claim that Vettel was favoured only because he was ahead in the championship, no other reason. Now the boot's on t'other foot, they'll have to play by their own rules and favour Webber. Won't they?

Didnt Vettel get better parts already at Turkey, when Webbo was leading him in standings? It is obvious Red Bull wants him to win and Webbo is the nr.2. I really up Webber manages to take the title this year, it would anger swine like helmut marko and horner a lot seeing their golden boy not win.

[Valve Bounce]

Mark Webber after hte race: "Yesterday was really a unique situation, and it was the first time we had one bit. I would never have signed a contract for next year if I believed that was the way going forward," said Webber after the race."
"I don't think it should happen, honestly. I wasn't massively in favour of the decision but that is the way it goes sometimes....some of the drivers offered me front wings on the parade lap from their cars but I said stick with what I've got. Seb didn't!

from autosport

[woody2goody]

Mark Webber after hte race: "Yesterday was really a unique situation, and it was the first time we had one bit. I would never have signed a contract for next year if I believed that was the way going forward," said Webber after the race."

from autosport

Sadly, RBR was probably the best option Mark had in 2011, and while he could have got a seat with most other teams, the harsh reality for him is that he will be better off winning races with RBR despite the bias, than say, going to sauber and maybe not winning any races next year.

Plus I doubt there are many guys who would go to red bull and become just a whipping boy.

That contract may have been reluctantly signed on both sides.

[Instant Mash]

Webber was hard to fault this weekend. I'm also glad he had the balls to come out and say that. Poetic justice all the way!

[steveaki13]

Vettels reaction to any Webber question in his post race interview was quite telling not very positive about the teams win.

And as said above Horners interview on BBC said alot.

[wedge]

Wah-wah-wah-ing about Lewis in Valencia then trying to take advantage of the Kubica situation here. He got penalised, just as Lewis did, but threw his toys out of the pram. He can dish it out, but can't take it.

Didn't a certain Dave say there was no such thing as spirit of the rules regarding the F-duct?

One way or the other rules are made to be broken and there was certainly a case made of Alonso being forced off the road.

I don't fully condone what he did but you have to play the evil genius card. Schumi and Brawn wouldn't have achieved things without it.

[markabilly]

at the beginning, I ask you of the most intelligent among you, was it not Red Bull and some others saying jenny and lewie would be cat fighting and scratching each other's eyes out....

And now Webber keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper, and Horner keeps handing him the shovel







and so, my fellows, as the story's told,

Horner fiddled while Rome burned....while giving false praises to brutus

Out cried young Vesttel Virgno...."a clutch, a clutch, my kingdom for a clutch...."

while thinkin who that sneaking around in the garage, adjusting my clutch last night.....

Meanwhile with his appointment with Karma over, courtesy of the Valveolina hex............the chopper wonders, just who is this Brutus fellow????



And yet, all the while, riding quietly away like a couple of thieves in the night, go Ham and But, like a horse and buggy....

[christophulus]

Nicely done by Webber, good move at the first corner and a top race.

It'll be interesting to see how openly Red Bull (try to) favour Webber at the next race, he is ahead in the championship after all - and that was their justification for giving Vettel the new part at Silverstone.

[Bagwan]

Sore winner .
Webber could have fastened himself to his team solidly , having just won the race , but he decided to slag them once again .

He just signed the contract , and could have easily set the stage for himself now being in the defacto number one seat , given the logic presented for the wing change before the race .

He could have said the it was too bad that Seb had that puncture , because he would have enjoyed the fight .

Instead , he poisoned an already shakey atmosphere .

Stupid move , as he had already won , and set to be number one .
Now he's burnt the team and said he shouldn't have signed .

And , maybe now it's mutual .

[markabilly]

Mark, you said there would be some discussions with the team; does that mean you will be demanding that should this situation arise again, you don't get cast in the position where you're the number two?

MW: Yup.


YUP
MArk will straighten out that Austrian bunch for sure....

[jens]

We don't see, what exactly is going inside the team, but Webber must have known the team all along (situation don't arise suddenly out of nothing - maybe for an outsider they do, but not for an insider) and he must like something about the team that he decided to extend the deal. Probably likes the fact that they have got a car, in which he can win a fair few races during a season. It's fun to hear Mark being outspoken in his own natural fashion, but I think he personally enjoys blowing the situation a bit out of proportion at the moment as well.

[harsha]

isn't Webber the number 1 driver now :D

[F1boat]

Well done Mark. You defeated that pathetic slime Marko and his fake PR star.

[woody2goody]

We don't see, what exactly is going inside the team, but Webber must have known the team all along (situation don't arise suddenly out of nothing - maybe for an outsider they do, but not for an insider) and he must like something about the team that he decided to extend the deal. Probably likes the fact that they have got a car, in which he can win a fair few races during a season. It's fun to hear Mark being outspoken in his own natural fashion, but I think he personally enjoys blowing the situation a bit out of proportion at the moment as well.

I think the only reason he is staying is because he can win races there and potentially titles. He is in the best car AND he can screw over those trying to screw him - brilliant situation for him in some ways.

And in addition to that he is outperforming Vettel regularly. I'm not sure staying at RBR is ideal for Mark, but it's the best he can do at this time.

[djparky]

Vettels reaction to any Webber question in his post race interview was quite telling not very positive about the teams win.

And as said above Horners interview on BBC said alot.

I didn't hear Horner's interview, but Webber didn't refer to his "team mate" at all during the post race interviews (or even with the BBC later on)

they've really got themselves into a mess this year- does rather seem like that the wrong driver is winning- if they wanted a compliant slave as a number 2 then they should have employed Algesuari or Buemi- not Mark Webber

as for the race- Vettel tried to shove him into the pitwall at the start and then ran out of road as Webber inevitably ran wide- it's his own stupid fault for trying to win the race on the first lap

and yet another example of RBR throwing away big points finishes- they've had the fastest car at more or less every race this year and they've contrived to throw away good results- either through mechanical issues or driver cock up's- Martin Whitmarsh must find this hysterically funny at the moment

there's nothing like having squabbling team mates and intra-team civil war to make it more interesting- think Senna-Prost, Mansell-Piquet, Jones- Reutiman or Hamilton- Alonso

I'm pretty neutral on who I'd like to see win- but cheered loudly when Vettel went off at Becketts

great result for Williams again- not great by previous high standards, but good to see them solidly in the points again

[Bradley]

I cheered loudly when Vettel went off at Becketts


I believe there were a few million TV spectators cheering loud with you at that moment

:)

[F1boat]

I believe there were a few million TV spectators cheering loud with you at that moment

:)

Aha! :D

[markabilly]

I didn't hear Horner's interview, but Webber didn't refer to his "team mate" at all during the post race interviews (or even with the BBC later on)

they've really got themselves into a mess this year- does rather seem like that the wrong driver is winning- if they wanted a compliant slave as a number 2 then they should have employed Algesuari or Buemi- not Mark Webber

as for the race- Vettel tried to shove him into the pitwall at the start and then ran out of road as Webber inevitably ran wide- it's his own stupid fault for trying to win the race on the first lap

and yet another example of RBR throwing away big points finishes- they've had the fastest car at more or less every race this year and they've contrived to throw away good results- either through mechanical issues or driver cock up's- Martin Whitmarsh must find this hysterically funny at the moment



YUP

and no doubt, very profitable as to points...

[good eagle]

it has been mentioned above but was i one of only a few who thought Vettel's move on Webber at teh start completely out-of-order and what subsequently happened justice?

I find it very puzzling, two of my current fave drivers are Nico's Rosberg [great race, great result] and Hulk [he will come good] and the 3 i dislike the most Schumacher, vettel and sutil, the 1st 2 act like spolit brats and the other has no concept of actual motor racing other than to block anyone he can at any cost - the 1st two seem to have enormous inferiority complexes - well otherwise why do they need to have championships given to them?

[good eagle]

it has been mentioned above but was i one of only a few who thought Vettel's move on Webber at teh start completely out-of-order and what subsequently happened justice?

I find it very puzzling, two of my current fave drivers are Nico's Rosberg [great race, great result] and Hulk [he will come good] and the 3 i dislike the most Schumacher, vettel and sutil, the 1st 2 act like spolit brats and the other has no concept of actual motor racing other than to block anyone he can at any cost - the 1st two seem to have enormous inferiority complexes - well otherwise why do they need to have championships given to them?Many congrats to Rubens, greatresult

[i_max2k2]

I believe there were a few million TV spectators cheering loud with you at that moment

:)

I was with u guys, it was so good to see vettel's puncture haha, I'm so hoping Mark can win this title.

[PSfan]

Mark, you said there would be some discussions with the team; does that mean you will be demanding that should this situation arise again, you don't get cast in the position where you're the number two?

MW: Yup.
YUP
MArk will straighten out that Austrian bunch for sure....

Straighten out those Austrians? perhaps before doing something stupid, like raising hell over a wing that 24 hours before it was taken away from him, he probably had wanted taken off his car, he should learn to use the internet where he can find the explanation as to why Vettel had gotten the new wing over him, if it hadn't been made perfectly clear prior to his post qualifying and post race hissy fits....

"Therefore it came to me to make a difficult decision as to which car it went on. It went to Sebastian based on championship position, his performance in P3 and the drivers' feedback on the different front wings from yesterday."

[CNR]

http://www.voxy.co.nz/sport/webber-wins-british-f1-grand-prix-red-bull-gives-you-wings-then-takes-it-away/1117/54799

[Jag_Warrior]

Nice find, thunderbolt! This is great stuff. What a season!!! :bounce:

And my apologies in advance, race_director. I'm not quoting your post (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=802438) to give you a hard time. But considering how it's gone since last month, when you made the post, I just saw it as relevant. I think more than a few other people also thought that Red Bull had put this intra-team animosity behind them... although I wasn't in that camp. It now looks like they're getting close to choosing swords or dueling pistols at dawn. And as long as they get the highlights of that on Formula One Debrief, that'll be great too!

[Saint Devote]

Good that Webber's crew are supporting him and they MUST taunt their teammates because it might just rattle them enough at the next grand prix.

We know that Pilbeam is his eyes and ears to ensure that RBR are prevented from undermining Webber.

Today we saw justice. I hope the Red Bull management were just squirming with disappointment!

[Jag_Warrior]

Sore winner .
Webber could have fastened himself to his team solidly , having just won the race , but he decided to slag them once again .

He just signed the contract , and could have easily set the stage for himself now being in the defacto number one seat , given the logic presented for the wing change before the race .

He could have said the it was too bad that Seb had that puncture , because he would have enjoyed the fight .

Instead , he poisoned an already shakey atmosphere .

Stupid move , as he had already won , and set to be number one .
Now he's burnt the team and said he shouldn't have signed .

And , maybe now it's mutual .

I very much agree with you, that taking the high road is usually the best way to deal with situations like this. But in Webber's case, as long as he has this internal anger, as long as it remains focused, it may help his performance. To shake hands and move on may dissipate some of that intense/angry focus. I mentioned in another post that it's typically been the angry and/or scared drivers who seem to stay up on the wheel. And old Webber certainly seemed to be up on the wheel today. I'd say even if Hamilton could have gotten close to him, trying to pass Webber would have been like stealing a steak from a hungry tiger. I really like Vettel. I still think he's a future WDC. But Webber is the one guy out there right now that has something to prove.

IMO, Red Bull is going to continue favoring Vettel whether Webber goes along to get along or not. And right now I think Webber would rather win the WDC this year and not have the first friend at Red Bull, than to come 2nd in the standings to Vettel (especially), but to be loved by everyone at Red Bull.

Just my 2 cents...

[Hondo]

I like Webber. I always have. I'd love to see him as WDC. He strikes me as a "works for a living" kind of guy as opposed to a "get in the car and drive" type. I hope Red Bull continues to give the impression they are crapping on him and treating him as a number 2 driver because it just seems to fire him up for greater success.

Today Mark:

Raced in a "repaired" chassis that was cast off by his team mate as somehow defective.

Raced in a car that had the only example of the latest, high tech rendition of the front super wing removed and given to his team mate the day before.

Beat Hamilton at the start of the race and again after the safety car restart.

Won the race.

Go Mark, go! Childish I admit, but if Webber does win the WDC, I'd love to see him stand at the post-race press conference, grab his crotch, and cheerfully invite Horner, Marko, and Vettel to come "hug this".

[Ent]

Sore winner .
Webber could have fastened himself to his team solidly , having just won the race , but he decided to slag them once again .

...He could have said the it was too bad that Seb had that puncture , because he would have enjoyed the fight .

Instead , he poisoned an already shakey atmosphere .

Stupid move , as he had already won , and set to be number one .
Now he's burnt the team and said he shouldn't have signed .

And , maybe now it's mutual .

I disagree. If he says nothing, then the team know they can use him as a doormat and that they can favour Vettel even more and Webber will just sit there and quietly take it. They now know that they must treat their drivers equally (or seemingly equal) or it becomes a PR problem. Very smart move by Webber.

He didn't sign a contract to say he is the number 2 driver, and as he's said many times, he'd rather retire than not be able to race properly. This way everyone knows where everyone else stands. Red Bull need to treat both their drivers equally or get rid of Webber. If they get rid of a driver right there in the running for the WDC, they become the joke they seem determined to try to be. Hopefully reality will set in soon and things will calm down a little. If not, then McLaren will be laughing all the way to the title.

Personally, I'm enjoying it. It's making it a great season to watch. Just when you thought nothing more could happen, they somehow manage to top it.

[Valve Bounce]

I disagree. If he says nothing, then the team know they can use him as a doormat and that they can favour Vettel even more and Webber will just sit there and quietly take it. They now know that they must treat their drivers equally (or seemingly equal) or it becomes a PR problem. Very smart move by Webber.

He didn't sign a contract to say he is the number 2 driver, and as he's said many times, he'd rather retire than not be able to race properly. This way everyone knows where everyone else stands. Red Bull need to treat both their drivers equally or get rid of Webber. If they get rid of a driver right there in the running for the WDC, they become the joke they seem determined to try to be. Hopefully reality will set in soon and things will calm down a little. If not, then McLaren will be laughing all the way to the title.

Personally, I'm enjoying it. It's making it a great season to watch. Just when you thought nothing more could happen, they somehow manage to top it.

I fully agree; Mark had to state his position very clearly to protect his turf within the team.

One must realise that Chris Horner is not the owner of Team RBR, Dietrich Mateschitz is the Owner, and he has the final say on who does what in the etam. It is my understanding that it was Dietrich who forced Horner to back down on his stance to blame Mark Webber after Turkey.

I know certain people here don't like/hate Mark Webber, but to stoop to insults and abusive name calling is, in my opinion, pretty low. This guy knows who I am taking about - he need not reply.

[Ari]

Justice has been done today, and I'm really happy that it has been.

Red Bull deserved everything they got today for trying to engineer a title for vettel without making him earn it.

People can say whatever they like about the favouritism shown to Schumi over the years, but at least he earned it and wasn't given it for no apparent reason.

And that there is the bang on truth! Could not have said it better.

[Ari]

at the beginning, I ask you of the most intelligent among you, was it not Red Bull and some others saying jenny and lewie would be cat fighting and scratching each other's eyes out....

And now Webber keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper, and Horner keeps handing him the shovel







and so, my fellows, as the story's told,

Horner fiddled while Rome burned....while giving false praises to brutus

Out cried young Vesttel Virgno...."a clutch, a clutch, my kingdom for a clutch...."

while thinkin who that sneaking around in the garage, adjusting my clutch last night.....

Meanwhile with his appointment with Karma over, courtesy of the Valveolina hex............the chopper wonders, just who is this Brutus fellow????



And yet, all the while, riding quietly away like a couple of thieves in the night, go Ham and But, like a horse and buggy....

hahahahaha!

that was great! :D

[Ari]

Straighten out those Austrians? perhaps before doing something stupid, like raising hell over a wing that 24 hours before it was taken away from him, he probably had wanted taken off his car, he should learn to use the internet where he can find the explanation as to why Vettel had gotten the new wing over him, if it hadn't been made perfectly clear prior to his post qualifying and post race hissy fits....

"Therefore it came to me to make a difficult decision as to which car it went on. It went to Sebastian based on championship position, his performance in P3 and the drivers' feedback on the different front wings from yesterday."

You're buying that!? :O

1. Find me an article which states that Webber disliked the new wing in practise.

2. Vettel was 1st in P3 and Webber was 2nd. The gap? 0.034. So that was enough of a gap? A third of a tenth? Enough of a gap to justify mentioning it in, well, the justification of Seb getting the wing? Umm I dont think so! I mean, it wasn't even quali anyways! It was practise.

FINALLY: The only reason I can see that Vettel should have had the wing was Championship standing. He was ahead of Webber. That said, the reason that people are so peeved is because he was only ahead by half a race win and in addition with situations reversed Webber was NEVER favoured by RBR.

[CNR]

I fully agree; Mark had to state his position very clearly to protect his turf within the team.

One must realise that Chris Horner is not the owner of Team RBR.

anybody know how the gp3 team is going
MW Arden Racing
http://www.racer.com/mark-webber-to-start-gp3-team/article/157627/

Mark Webber has joined with his Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner's Arden squad to form MW Arden Racing for the new GP3 series set to debut in 2010. The Australian believes that the new category is a perfect place for young drivers to showcase their talents.

[markabilly]

What is funny is when Fred and Lewis had their fall out, and everyone dumpedon Fred, especailly when Fred rather quietly (compared to Webber), criticised his team....called him spoiled brat and a baby throwing his toys out of the pram and he should be fired for being insubordinate

....

then along comes Mark, publicily stirring the pot, and making all sorts of comments, never would have signed, and all the rest.....indeed, count them up. And now the crews in the garage are jeering each other.....As in very
insubordinate

but none of the crew of posters who wanted Fred fired, see it that way at all, this time around... :rolleyes:

Me, if I own the team, one driver goes bye bye, and it would be the one who bit the hand that feeds him.... :vader:

[Jag_Warrior]

Fernando was quiet in his dispute with McLaren? Really?! He made more noise than Don King before a boxing match. :D

If Alonso hadn't tried to blackmail his boss and if McLaren had taken parts off Fernando's car and put them on Hamilton's, maybe I could liken Mark's situation with Alonso's. But all Webber seems to want is to be treated equally. Alonso wanted to be the designated #1 at McLaren. He wanted McLaren to dial Hamilton down. He didn't get that so he got his panties in a wad and (thankfully) left.

Hey, if he doesn't win the WDC, maybe Red Bull will show Webber the door at the end of the season. And if they do, I'd be willing to bet that 2010 is the high-point for that team for a long time to come. Even the magic of Adrian Newey can't make up for a poorly managed team. I still like Vettel (I don't blame him for this team foolishness). But my distaste for Red Bull is beginning to grow.

[Ranger]

What is funny is when Fred and Lewis had their fall out, and everyone dumpedon Fred, especailly when Fred rather quietly (compared to Webber), criticised his team....called him spoiled brat and a baby throwing his toys out of the pram and he should be fired for being insubordinate

....

then along comes Mark, publicily stirring the pot, and making all sorts of comments, never would have signed, and all the rest.....indeed, count them up. And now the crews in the garage are jeering each other.....As in very
insubordinate

but none of the crew of posters who wanted Fred fired, see it that way at all, this time around... :rolleyes:

Me, if I own the team, one driver goes bye bye, and it would be the one who bit the hand that feeds him.... :vader:

Alonso blackmailed his own team.

This isn't even in the same ballpark.

[F1boat]

What is funny is when Fred and Lewis had their fall out, and everyone dumpedon Fred, especailly when Fred rather quietly (compared to Webber), criticised his team....called him spoiled brat and a baby throwing his toys out of the pram and he should be fired for being insubordinate

....

then along comes Mark, publicily stirring the pot, and making all sorts of comments, never would have signed, and all the rest.....indeed, count them up. And now the crews in the garage are jeering each other.....As in very
insubordinate

but none of the crew of posters who wanted Fred fired, see it that way at all, this time around... :rolleyes:

Me, if I own the team, one driver goes bye bye, and it would be the one who bit the hand that feeds him.... :vader:

I think that Fred was right then and Mark now. The case is very similar. A lying scumbag who happens to be team boss speaks about equality while the team does their best to ensure "the young hungry kid" winning over the dull old driver. Despicable. I have to say, however, that Lewis was stronger then, and RBR are even more annoying now. I only hope that Vettel and the team will "grow up" in the way McLaren and Lewis did.

[racer69]

If Webber had have put on a public 'team unity' face and said all the right things and acted as if all was ok, then he immediatly finds himself in the Barrichello or Coulthard mould of appearing on the outside at least to be 'driving for the team' rather than 'driving for the win'

Webber has stated publically now that he's got a winning car, nothing less than winning will do, and he's not going to hang around F1 for the sake of it.

If he wants to win races and put a fight up to the others, he has to take the stand he seemingly has.

[Ent]

Lets not forget that Webber ain't no spring chicken, if you know what I mean. He's had years in cars that couldn't cut it, and after his time at Williams produced nothing, he was looking at a slow slide back down the order into racing oblivion. Now, surprisingly, he finds himself in a race winning car with a serious shot at the WDC. He can't really afford not to have a serious crack at it this year. If he settles for the number 2 job, he might as well retire and take up V8 racing back in Australia. If I were him, I wouldn't care whose toes I stood on just to have this one serious crack at the championship. That's all any driver really wants.

[RJL25]

Yeah Pilbeam definetly has Webber's back and is more interested in his driver then his team, sounds like the rest of his crew feel the same way.

Don't forget that Webber has been around the team a lot longer then Vettel has, most of his crew date back to the Jaguar days when Webber was basically THE driver at the team and has always been the kind of driver who is popular with the mechanics due to his "matey" and genuine character.

Vettel may be the man in the eyes of the teams management, but the mechanics have Webbers back.

Could you just imagine the scenes in the garage when Webber's number 1 mechanic was told to take the wing off his car and give it to Seb's mechanic?

oh but Vettel put the names of his engineer and mechanics on his helmut... a sign of a young bloke saying "please like me guys!"???

[RJL25]

I agree that if Mark just quietly took it and ran out the RBR public lines of "yes we're all freinds here, they're all coming round my house for a bbq after the race" then he would have just become another Coulthard or Barachello.

And maybe Mark is being advised by those guys? DC and Webber aren't bossum buddies but they always got on well when driving together would consider each other mates and did anyone else notice how eager Rubens was after the race to grab Mark before he went up the stairs to the podium to have a quiet word to him... Rubens has been there, he knows what its all about!

[ArrowsFA1]

While Red Bull's words say Webber is not #2, their actions show the opposite and that is what Mark is, rightly IMHO, pissed off about. If they'd given him a contract that said he was #2 and he'd accepted that then Mark Webber would have no complaints.

The problem for Red Bull is that they have laid and paid the path to F1 for Vettel and they want to see a return on their investment. At the moment Webber threatens that investment.

[ArrowsFA1]

Vettel may be the man in the eyes of the teams management, but the mechanics have Webbers back.
:up: That might well be the root of the problem. There seems to be a clear distinction between the team, and team Red Bull.

[turismo6]

I had been going for Button this season, but after Webber's "calling it like it was" I have warmed to the idea of him becoming WDC. I would love it if he won then move to Lotus sort of Damon Hill thing ... + it would be nice seeing a number 1 on their car.

Then again this could be 2007 all over, in which case I would want button to be the Kimi.

[ShiftingGears]

Horner still needs to find out how to properly manage two very competitive drivers.

[Daniel]

I hope neither driver wins tbh. Nothing says "we're a bunch of morons and we don't want to win any titles" like a good bit of infighting inside the team.

[F1boat]

Then again this could be 2007 all over, in which case I would want button to be the Kimi.

Aha! This would be amazing :)

[Valve Bounce]

I hope neither driver wins tbh. Nothing says "we're a bunch of morons and we don't want to win any titles" like a good bit of infighting inside the team.

Wouldn't it be great if Bunsen won the title. :up:

[Daniel]

No. I'd prefer a decent driver like lewis to win

[Bagwan]

Webber should get his crew to go beat Vettel up at recess .

He's lucky that Lewis sliced Seb's tire .
He's lucky , with a face like a smacked bottom .

Do remember you won the race , Mark .

[Daniel]

That's a fair assessment of things Bagwan. Webber seems pretty sore for a guy who won.....

[Valve Bounce]

That's a fair assessment of things Bagwan. Webber seems pretty sore for a guy who won.....

Still..........."Not bad for a #2!"

[Retro Formula 1]

2nd hand chassis that Vettel cast aside.
2nd hand nose that Vettel didn't want.
Chopper driving from Vettel at the start and then has the audacity to "suggest" Hamilton punctured his wheel on purpose.
1st class racing from the Aussie who with the spare parts car, stuck it to the arrogant little twerp and drove his heart out.

How'd you like the feel of them plums Chrissy boy!!

Wouldn't be surprised if the Red Bull King makers are fitting a special "destruct" button in Marks car. What's the betting he's going to suffer some "issues"?

[markabilly]

Fernando was quiet in his dispute with McLaren? Really?! He made more noise than Don King before a boxing match. :D

If Alonso hadn't tried to blackmail his boss and if McLaren had taken parts off Fernando's car and put them on Hamilton's, maybe I could liken Mark's situation with Alonso's. But all Webber seems to want is to be treated equally. Alonso wanted to be the designated #1 at McLaren. He wanted McLaren to dial Hamilton down. He didn't get that so he got his panties in a wad and (thankfully) left.

Hey, if he doesn't win the WDC, maybe Red Bull will show Webber the door at the end of the season. And if they do, I'd be willing to bet that 2010 is the high-point for that team for a long time to come. Even the magic of Adrian Newey can't make up for a poorly managed team. I still like Vettel (I don't blame him for this team foolishness). But my distaste for Red Bull is beginning to grow.


First after FA complained enough privately without resolution, Lewis kept breaking the internal rules and orders, FA did his little pit sit, and then got kicked back out of a pole he won fair and square---if he had won that race or finished second, he would have been WDC and not kimi

He then out of the presence of the public, the next morning a couple of hours before the race and still mad, he righfully complains about hamilton and gets the brush off by RD, so he makes a threat, which causes RD to panic. FA never made any public threats or fussed, nothing like Webber has, not one. And FA never called max.

Indeed, LH called the FIA after Monaco, and had his own team investigated!!!

But all the fanboys of English honor, screamed mightly for his head, and got it..meanwhile RD was making comments about "we were racing agsinst FA.."...and outside of a few photos showing Hamilton sneering when FA and LH were together, , we never saw anything in press conferences that we saw on Saturday, of the clear and overwhelmimg anger of Webber on public display against his team and against Vettel.

Then the anger publicly repeated again in radio tansmissions, press conferences as well as that great photo of Webber staring a hole through the heart of Vettel, when Vettel walks up to congratulate Webber, while surrounded by Webber's crowd of mechanics, pretty much giving Vettel the same sort of look.




While Red Bull's words say Webber is not #2, their actions show the opposite and that is what Mark is, rightly IMHO, pissed off about. If they'd given him a contract that said he was #2 and he'd accepted that then Mark Webber would have no complaints.

The problem for Red Bull is that they have laid and paid the path to F1 for Vettel and they want to see a return on their investment. At the moment Webber threatens that investment.


And not what you said about FA, only what a baby was FA, throwing a fit, for doing less than Webber.... :rolleyes: but you are right about the threat on the investment

And the other posts here prove my point.

In the austria corporate world, well, whose head is going to tumble??

[markabilly]

Webber should get his crew to go beat Vettel up at recess .

He's lucky that Lewis sliced Seb's tire .
He's lucky , with a face like a smacked bottom .

Do remember you won the race , Mark .
Yeah, but Webber knows it is a war, and not one battle, and unfortunately for him, he might well have lost the war while winning this weekend's battle as far as the Austrian corporate world is concerned.... :dozey:

[Valve Bounce]

That's a fair assessment of things Bagwan. Webber seems pretty sore for a guy who won.....

Let me just ask the two of you this question:"If the situation was reversed, and Horner wanted to give Mark Webber the undamaged wing from Vettel's car, do you think that Mark Webber would have accepted Vettel's wing?"

[Daniel]

Skc, Vettel never claimed that Lewis sliced his tyre on purpose....

[wedge]

Then the anger publicly repeated again in radio tansmissions, press conferences as well as that great photo of Webber staring a hole through the heart of Vettel, when Vettel walks up to congratulate Webber, while surrounded by Webber's crowd of mechanics, pretty much giving Vettel the same sort of look.

Webber, arguably, has cracked.

There was very little difference between the two wings.

Q1 - few hundrenths difference

Q2 - Vettel leads by 0.3s

Q3 - Vettel beat Webber to pole by about a tenth

[markabilly]

Webber should get his crew to go beat Vettel up at recess .

He's lucky that Lewis sliced Seb's tire .
He's lucky , with a face like a smacked bottom .

Do remember you won the race , Mark .


Let me just ask the two of you this question:"If the situation was reversed, and Horner wanted to give Mark Webber the undamaged wing from Vettel's car, do you think that Mark Webber would have accepted Vettel's wing?"
If we are talking next race, based on the photo, he might take it and shove it up vettel's butt...

Based on reports from Friday after practice, neither driver wanted it....and it is not clear why it broke, so MArk might have thought he was getting the shaft from Horner and said, no, but he would not be saying because of kindness to Vettel or a sense of fair play

.

If I were Vettel, I would have said no....why take the chance of another bust

Reality is that most likely neither driver had a choice...the team does the cars, and the drivers drive. Period.

The better question is like the one posed by the FA crash in practice at Monaco, why did ferrari not take massa's car and give it to FA to qualify???? :confused:

What would red bull do??

If you ask the driver without a car to take it, NO DRIVER IS GOING TO SAY NO, I would rather go smoke a cigarette and watch, not Mark and not Vettel.....which is why it should always be a bossman decision, not a driver's choice
:dozey:
what would red bull do?? well, I don't know.....

[Rusty Spanner]

At the moment I can see how this could be a bad and somewhat naive decision by a team under pressure and inexperienced as championship contenders. Red bull has wasted away a lot of points with the best car. McLaren was on the backfoot for the weekend and they knew they had to capitalise.
If they'd only had one wing at the start of the weekend and it had gone to Vettel I'm sure it would have been a little contentious but nothing like what its become because of the circumstances of when and why the swap went on. Webber was perfectly entitled to be steamed but its now time to shutup and move on. I don't see any way that continuing to drive a wedge into the team can end well for him. Unlike many in the garage on race weekend the vast majority of the people who work for Red Bull work for the team and not with one driver. These people will start to resent Webber if they perceive that he is damaging the teams chances because of his behaviour.

Does the decision show favouritism? It certainly doesn't look good from the outside. It also cast an interesting light on Webbers comments about how the relationship between Hamilton and Button at McLaren is bound to end in tears.

[Retro Formula 1]

Skc, Vettel never claimed that Lewis sliced his tyre on purpose....

I think you will find he did when he claimed that Lewis "achieved" what he "tried" to do previously.

In claiming Lewis tried it he is claiming it was a concious act and by saying he achieved what he tried previously, he is reaffirming it.

[Daniel]

Let me just ask the two of you this question:"If the situation was reversed, and Horner wanted to give Mark Webber the undamaged wing from Vettel's car, do you think that Mark Webber would have accepted Vettel's wing?"

Hell yes. he's a racing driver who wants to win. Would it be right? That's a different question.

[Valve Bounce]

Hell yes. he's a racing driver who wants to win. Would it be right? That's a different question.

See! that's the difference between our perceptions; I don't believe that Mark Webber would have accepted such a situation and would have refused to take Vettel's wing.

[markabilly]

See! that's the difference between our perceptions; I don't believe that Mark Webber would have accepted such a situation and would have refused to take Vettel's wing.
as I said, i think the choice was not his to make
I think if he knew the choice would make the difference between wininng and losing, he would take the wing, just like he did not move over for Vettel in turkey

He is a racer.

Ultimately I do not think the wing made much difference, if any, as to race times, especially since it might not have worked well in traffic, as it was more principle than anything else....

more like two children when one gets something different, the other always wants what the other has, even if what he already has, is better...

[AndyL]

See! that's the difference between our perceptions; I don't believe that Mark Webber would have accepted such a situation and would have refused to take Vettel's wing.

I guess we'll never really know, but my feeling is that he would have taken it, and would have been right to do so. I don't think Vettel did anything wrong in accepting Webber's wing (assuming he didn't demand it). I think Horner did wrong in giving it to him.

[Daniel]

Link? I heard nothing of the sort.

[ioan]

I think you will find he did when he claimed that Lewis "achieved" what he "tried" to do previously.

In claiming Lewis tried it he is claiming it was a concious act and by saying he achieved what he tried previously, he is reaffirming it.

If you try harder you might come up with an even more contrived theory, I really trust you for this.

[ioan]

No. I'd prefer a decent driver like lewis to win

Same here.
RBR as a team do not deserve to win any of the championships.

[ioan]

Let me just ask the two of you this question:"If the situation was reversed, and Horner wanted to give Mark Webber the undamaged wing from Vettel's car, do you think that Mark Webber would have accepted Vettel's wing?"

Most probably he would have.
Any other similar question?!

I am also fairly sure that the other drivers were rather happy that it was Vettel and not Webber who had to drive through the field, this way they could drive without fearing for their lives. :\

[Bagwan]

See! that's the difference between our perceptions; I don't believe that Mark Webber would have accepted such a situation and would have refused to take Vettel's wing.

So , you're the boss , and you ask an employee to do something , and he refuses .
What do you do ?
It seems like you'd accept the petty insolence , and call it "driven" , instead of "disrespectful" .

Horner made the call .
And , given Seb made better use of it in practice , is higher on points , and (something that is , I think forgotten in all this brou-ha-ha) that they'd obviously screwed up in fitting his first one , as it had fallen off , they chose to fit it to Vettel's car .


I'm sure that the Webber pushers would have seen conspiracy in it if it had been Webber's car that had the wing "mysteriously" fall off in practice .


Mark couldn't even bring himself to utter Vettel's name in the post-race press conference , saying the first corner had worked out well .
Sad display . I thought he was both bigger and smarter than this .
He was a petulant child , in my opinion .
His team gave him a race winning car , and he burned them .

It was at the time when he had the floor that he could have said all that was needed to cement his team behind him .
He could have said :
"It doesn't seem like the wing made much difference in the end , does it ?
It's too bad that Seb went out in that first corner incident , because I would have liked to have had a good dice with someone , anyone .
Having a highly motivated me is better than any wing that they could fit to Seb's car , and I think we proved that today ."


So , what's the next move from the Bull camp ?

Do they let this smoulder , or give the usual "nothing wrong , our guys get on like two kittens , suckling adjacent teats." ?

Stay tuned , for another episode of "As the Bull burns" .

[Easy Drifter]

Not getting into this particular arguement but Red Bull and their alter ego Torro Rosso have a history of treating most of their drivers like pieces of meat. It applies in their whole operation of the Jr. driver development series.
Reminds me of Enzo who basically treated most of his drivers like garbage.

[Rusty Spanner]

The problem for Red Bull is that they have laid and paid the path to F1 for Vettel and they want to see a return on their investment. At the moment Webber threatens that investment.

I have a really hard time buying this. Red Bull might be favouring Vettel but I think it’s a stretch to claim it’s because of their ‘investment’ in him. It could be because of the personal relationship with him but it would be stupid thing to do based on money spent in the past. Red Bull Racing are a championship contending racing team. The Red Bull company has spent far more money in achieving that than they’ve spent on supporting Vettels career. They’ll probably spend more money on Red Bull Racing this year alone than they did getting Vettel into F1. So why jeopardise that far bigger investment in order to try and ensure Vettel wins rather than Webber? It’s not as if Webber being World Champion would create a marketing problem from the Red Bull company. If anything with his no nonsense, mountain biking, sporting fitness freak image he’s more of a Red Bull type personality than Vettel.

The thing that muddies the water somewhat is the fact Red Bull are not running away with the championship in the same way that Brawn did last year. It’s a fair bet it will all be decided by just a few points. So if you’re Red Bull that gives you a choice, either put all your eggs in one basket or let your drivers fight it out, risk them taking points of each other and loosing the championship because of it. The eternal dilemma that’s faced F1 teams forever. Going into the season I’d say if you had to pick one driver to favour it would be a no brainer to choose Vettel based on past performance alone, others may disagree. Going into the GP at Silverstone Vettel was a small number of points ahead in the championship and if it’s going to be decided by just a few points that’s what matters.

Are Red Bull favouring Vettel? We can only guess based on what we can see, accurate or not.
Are Red Bull favouring Vettel because of their previous investment in him? No.
Are Red Bull favouring Vettel because they feel he’s a better long term bet over the course of a season to win the championship? I hope not, but it would certainly be the most sensible reason to do so.

[ShiftingGears]

Link? I heard nothing of the sort.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/11/vettel-he-didnt-mean-to-give-me-a-puncture/

I don't know exactly what he's referring to in Valencia.

[Daniel]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/11/vettel-he-didnt-mean-to-give-me-a-puncture/

I don't know exactly what he's referring to in Valencia.
Thanks :) Definitive proof that skc is talking crapola :laugh: I wonder if skc will post apologising? Or if they'll even admit that they were wrong? I doubt it :)

[AndyL]

I have a really hard time buying this. Red Bull might be favouring Vettel but I think it’s a stretch to claim it’s because of their ‘investment’ in him. It could be because of the personal relationship with him but it would be stupid thing to do based on money spent in the past. Red Bull Racing are a championship contending racing team. The Red Bull company has spent far more money in achieving that than they’ve spent on supporting Vettels career. They’ll probably spend more money on Red Bull Racing this year alone than they did getting Vettel into F1. So why jeopardise that far bigger investment in order to try and ensure Vettel wins rather than Webber?

My interpretation was that Arrows wasn't using the word "investment" in a purely financial sense. Many senior people at Red Bull will have considerable emotional and political capital invested in Vettel's career. Those who've had a hand in the young drivers programme will want to see themselves vindicated.

[Mia 01]

Mark is not doing that bad for sure.

Seb is the No 1, Mark knows this, why argue?

[Mia 01]

Red Bull owns their drivers contracts, in a way they own them in flesh, litterary.

[Jag_Warrior]

Mark is not doing that bad for sure.

Seb is the No 1, Mark knows this, why argue?

If Mark winds up with the #1 on his car at the beginning of next season, who is the #1 then?

At Red Bull, it would probably (still) be Vettel. And that's another reason for Webber to do the best he can to win this WDC this year and then whatever happens, happens.

[Mia 01]

Arguing in front of the whole world don´t change things in the team.

[Mia 01]

Err what? :confused:

Go one step further in your mind.

[Big Ben]

Same old forum grown dribble that can't be proved. Poor Alonso must have had sleepless nights worrying about the fact he was using stolen Ferrari data to his own advantage.. Yeah right.. :rolleyes:

go boil an egg

[Valve Bounce]

So , you're the boss , and you ask an employee to do something , and he refuses .
What do you do ?
It seems like you'd accept the petty insolence , and call it "driven" , instead of "disrespectful" .

Horner made the call .
And , given Seb made better use of it in practice , is higher on points , and (something that is , I think forgotten in all this brou-ha-ha) that they'd obviously screwed up in fitting his first one , as it had fallen off , they chose to fit it to Vettel's car .


I'm sure that the Webber pushers would have seen conspiracy in it if it had been Webber's car that had the wing "mysteriously" fall off in practice .


Mark couldn't even bring himself to utter Vettel's name in the post-race press conference , saying the first corner had worked out well .
Sad display . I thought he was both bigger and smarter than this .
He was a petulant child , in my opinion .
His team gave him a race winning car , and he burned them .

It was at the time when he had the floor that he could have said all that was needed to cement his team behind him .
He could have said :
"It doesn't seem like the wing made much difference in the end , does it ?
It's too bad that Seb went out in that first corner incident , because I would have liked to have had a good dice with someone , anyone .
Having a highly motivated me is better than any wing that they could fit to Seb's car , and I think we proved that today ."


So , what's the next move from the Bull camp ?

Do they let this smoulder , or give the usual "nothing wrong , our guys get on like two kittens , suckling adjacent teats." ?

Stay tuned , for another episode of "As the Bull burns" .

He could have simply declined to have Vettels wing underthe circumstances, saying he was comfortable with his own wing.

Then the rest of your rant would evaporate into nothing.

[tmx]

His team gave him a race winning car , and he burned them . My exact feeling, and not with reasons like Barrichello last year. It was not an accidental spurt, but Webber h had to incite conflicts for his team, but I think he realized that before the end of the day. (And I'm not saying his team was right to take his front wing.) The championship is running away from them if the two drivers kept being vengeful of each other, while McLaren racking up consistent points.

..and yet Alonso says he can still win the championship. http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/eek.gif

[Valve Bounce]

Link? I heard nothing of the sort.

Here you go: http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/detail.jsp?contentId=189898

ENJOY!!

[Roamy]

a couple of very good drivers managed by TWITS

[Retro Formula 1]

Thanks :) Definitive proof that skc is talking crapola :laugh: I wonder if skc will post apologising? Or if they'll even admit that they were wrong? I doubt it :)



He probably achieved what he wanted to achieve in Valencia! But I’m sure he didn’t mean to give me a puncture.

I saw the interview live and he was inferring he did it purposely.

By suggesting Lewis achieved what he wanted to achieve he was suggesting Lewis did it on purpose. He was like a sulky, spoilt child in the interview and only added the "But I'm sure he ......" in a petulant sarcastic manner as you post "I wonder if SKC will post apologising" (English?).

So, watch the post race broadcast on bbc again and give and "informed" opinion.

[PSfan]

You're buying that!? :O

1. Find me an article which states that Webber disliked the new wing in practise.

2. Vettel was 1st in P3 and Webber was 2nd. The gap? 0.034. So that was enough of a gap? A third of a tenth? Enough of a gap to justify mentioning it in, well, the justification of Seb getting the wing? Umm I dont think so! I mean, it wasn't even quali anyways! It was practise.

FINALLY: The only reason I can see that Vettel should have had the wing was Championship standing. He was ahead of Webber. That said, the reason that people are so peeved is because he was only ahead by half a race win and in addition with situations reversed Webber was NEVER favoured by RBR.

1, as I posted elsewhere, It was stated during the BBC broadcast that the drivers needed convincing after friday practice the new wing was an improvement.

2, Geeze The Gap 0.034s still says VETTEL WAS FASTER...

Finally? No People are not peeved because how close the drivers are in the championship, its because they had to physically remove it from Webber's car to put it on Vettel's.

and the part about me buying Honers explanation... your post sortqa agree's with 2 outa the 3... what You think he's making the feedback part up?

For me, I wouldn't have cited the fact that Vettel was faster with the wing, or the championship standings... I would have pointed out that we wanted the wing to last a whole race, and Webber had gone threw 10x more front wings then Vettel... cough cough Australia....

[PSfan]

Was watching a few of the season opening races while at work, and picked up some interesting, slightly relevant quotes from the Speedtv announcers:

From the Barcelona broadcast Bob Varsha:

"Being the team leader in the championship usually entitles you to all sorts of perks including new parts on the car, and that sort of things, first pick of pit strategy..." (On Mercedes new longer wheel base MS favored car)

And from the Australian GP, Matchett had this:

"One thing you never ever do is slant the team like that on the radio" (in Regards to Hamilton's "who's idea was it to pit for tires" radio transmission

[Valve Bounce]

None other than Stirling Moss thinks that Mark Webber was right in standing up for himself. Argue with that!

............and here is Mark Webber's take : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85244

......................and here's Vettel's opinion of the whole thing: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85247

[Saint Devote]

Wouldn't it be great if Bunsen won the title. :up:

He already won a title in 2009.

Winning ANOTHER title? That would be nice and can happen again one day.

But I can tell you that it is nothing like the time until the end of 2009. In the "Barmy Army" we have gotten used to Jense being in a competitive car [wot a smart move eh :D ] and being in contention for the title - naturally!

Imagine that - we are now like normal supporters - well almost :vader:

[racer69]

Arguing in front of the whole world don´t change things in the team.

Not standing up for yourself and "doing a Coulthard/Barrichello" in public isn't going to change much either...nor bring home a championship.

[CNR]

Q: how much work was done to 'Luscious Liz' ?
will redbull swap cars

[F1boat]

Not standing up for yourself and "doing a Coulthard/Barrichello" in public isn't going to change much either...nor bring home a championship.

Actually arguing in public works. Look at Rubens Barrichello. He whined so much last year, and IMO, unlike Webber, for nothing. But he really fought for the WDC. In Ferrari, it was in the contract. There was nothing he could have done.

[Gibbsy]

Was watching a few of the season opening races while at work, and picked up some interesting, slightly relevant quotes from the Speedtv announcers:

From the Barcelona broadcast Bob Varsha:

"Being the team leader in the championship usually entitles you to all sorts of perks including new parts on the car, and that sort of things, first pick of pit strategy..." (On Mercedes new longer wheel base MS favored car)

And from the Australian GP, Matchett had this:

"One thing you never ever do is slant the team like that on the radio" (in Regards to Hamilton's "who's idea was it to pit for tires" radio transmission


Wow PSFAN, i remember you failing at trolling MW fans around 4 - 5 seasons ago. Good to see you haven't gotten any better at it.

However if the great Bob Varsha (whothehell??) and the man known only as Matchett seem to think MW is in the wrong then I guess you have me convinced. How many grand Prixs have they won by the way?

Do you tear up occassionally knowing that Mark Webber now has more race wins this season than any other driver? Have you started to get the feeling that you might have been... well you know... kinda... sorta... 100% F***ing wrong?

On a less personal note, the beauty of this situation for Mark is that red bull don't really have a way to combat his running of mouth, they've stolen parts from him, they have given him a beat up old chassis. They have given him the lesser strategies. He is thumping the wonderbrat regardless! They cant seriously sabotage him because they aren't currently winning either championship and Vettel just plain isn't good enough for an "all eggs in one basket" approach.

[wedge]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/redbull/7886259/Mark-Webber-row-rumbles-on-at-Red-Bull-as-Christian-Horner-denies-favouritism-claims.html

I stand corrected of an opinion that Webber cracked with '#2' comment.

Poor poor man management skills. Rookie management skills dealing with WDC battle looks like a crap excuse with every passing minute. Horner is turning into female genitalia of the highest order.


Actually arguing in public works. Look at Rubens Barrichello. He whined so much last year, and IMO, unlike Webber, for nothing. But he really fought for the WDC. In Ferrari, it was in the contract. There was nothing he could have done.

No it doesn't. Mis-time it and it makes you look like a fool.

Barrichello looked like fool at Nurburgring because he had a moment of bad luck - can't remember the exact reason but it was genuine, something to do with fuel IIRC.

There was the instance in Spain 2009 when Jenson changed from 3-stopper to 2-stopper and that obviously fuelled the conspiracy and at that "blah blah" moment Rubens cracked and days later apologised to the team.

[wedge]

Wow PSFAN, i remember you failing at trolling MW fans around 4 - 5 seasons ago. Good to see you haven't gotten any better at it.

However if the great Bob Varsha (whothehell??) and the man known only as Matchett seem to think MW is in the wrong then I guess you have me convinced. How many grand Prixs have they won by the way?

Do you tear up occassionally knowing that Mark Webber now has more race wins this season than any other driver? Have you started to get the feeling that you might have been... well you know... kinda... sorta... 100% F***ing wrong?

On a less personal note, the beauty of this situation for Mark is that red bull don't really have a way to combat his running of mouth, they've stolen parts from him, they have given him a beat up old chassis. They have given him the lesser strategies. He is thumping the wonderbrat regardless! They cant seriously sabotage him because they aren't currently winning either championship and Vettel just plain isn't good enough for an "all eggs in one basket" approach.

Steve Matchett was Chief Mechanic in the Schumi/Benetton era - 'he knows a thing or two about favouritism', I hear you cry!

If Webber was leading the race up to the first stops then he wouldn't be getting the lesser strategies - that's how it usually works.

It's worth thinking that Webber would've been the Golden Boy already if he wasn't crashing into cars left, right and centre.

[Daniel]

they have given him a beat up old chassis.

You really are taking this aussie battler thing a little too far. Chassis' which are slightly damaged can be repaired and as stated the chassis has been repaired so what's the problem? Why should they give him Vettel's one when Vettel was ahead in the title race and Mark was the one who drove too his chassis for a flight?

[Mia 01]

I think if Red Bull give Vettel the chassis Mark used in Valencia, they can call the whole thing quits.. :p :)

I´m not so sure that RBR got moore than one spare chassi. Next time one of the drivers mess up things badley that driver will get Marks flying one.

I´m not so sure it will be seb.

[UltimateDanGTR]

If RBR are struggling on chassis numbers (which is just pure flimsy unbacked-up speculation) then giving one to Adrian Newey didnt help matters.....

[PSfan]

Wow PSFAN, i remember you failing at trolling MW fans around 4 - 5 seasons ago. Good to see you haven't gotten any better at it.

Wow, I'm flattered... You remember... And I see you defend Mark Webber as good as ever (that sarcasm wasn't a bit to thick was it? I'm really trying not to be insulting here...)


However if the great Bob Varsha (whothehell??) and the man known only as Matchett seem to think MW is in the wrong then I guess you have me convinced. How many grand Prixs have they won by the way?

I am so glad you picked up on that, Not many would realize that Varsha making a comment during the Spanish GP was directed at Webber 5 races later. Diddo with Matchett`s Australian GP comments, those Speedtv guys are really prophets aren`t they :cheese:


Do you tear up occassionally knowing that Mark Webber now has more race wins this season than any other driver? Have you started to get the feeling that you might have been... well you know... kinda... sorta... 100% F***ing wrong?

Well, considering that its been only 2 days that he`s had that distinction, no, I haven`t. Have you considered that despite the extra win and one less DNF Webber`s 7 point advantage in the championship is rather sad... Or the fact that had early mechanical gremlins didn`t haunt Vettel from the start, that "wins" tally would be 4 - 3 in favor of Vettel and we can only imagine the point gaps then. Or lets just remember that as of right now, when both Red Bulls finish, Vettel has finished ahead of Mark 4 races to 3....


On a less personal note, the beauty of this situation for Mark is that red bull don't really have a way to combat his running of mouth, they've stolen parts from him, they have given him a beat up old chassis. They have given him the lesser strategies. He is thumping the wonderbrat regardless! They cant seriously sabotage him because they aren't currently winning either championship and Vettel just plain isn't good enough for an "all eggs in one basket" approach.

Yah, Red Bull clearly don't have the balls to pull off what HRT did with Senna. But I'll pledge to buy 2 cases (8 cans) of Red Bull if they make Webber sit out 1 race for his insubordinate actions...


they've stolen parts from him My god this was news to me, Red Bell taking their wing off of one of theirs cars, and putting it on their other car pissed off alot of Webber fans, but to think they actually stole some of Webber's personal property!!! So what did they steal, and will Webber call the police on the team?


they have given him a beat up old chassis. Yah, I guess the Alternative of making Webber use his Turkey Chassis, would have offended the Webber fans less... B

[markabilly]

As I recall, Webber has fussed at every team sooner or later, where he has been.

Has he ever been happy with any team??

Anyway, I think RB and him will part company at end of the year, Webber jumping to ferrari (where he will always decline to accept any wings from Freddie, so to make Valve happy and pay back for the hex, and esp so Valve can tell that dumb idiot Markabilly, "I told you so, you dumb idoit markabilly")


and Vettel jumps over the the merc team (since haug seems to be unable to make kimi happy, even when eating/drinking/snorting with him at his big house in the hills of Switzerland), to replace Schuie to keep the team "pure blood" Germanic, well, ...... as nearly pure blood as Rosberg can be.....

but I hear the Vikes (now Finns) got around a lot, sailed down all the rivers of Russia and conquered (Russian actually means "river people" after the vikes) as well as conquered big chunks of da Vaterlund, so surely there is a connection there.......

of course then webber can rub it into Freddie about how Freddie never bad mouthed RD and the team on the radio after winning, or in a press conference, or put a proper stare down on hamilton, like Webber did to Vestall....

then Freddie will get mad, tell Stevo Domino, fire Webber or he will call maX and tell max about all those secrets stolen..... :eek:

Meanwhile Webber will tell Stevo that he is of secret Italian heritage, cementing their bonding, and Webber will then live happily ever after.....

remeber folks you heard it here first :vader:

[Mia 01]

As I recall, Webber has fussed at every team sooner or later, where he has been.

Has he ever been happy with any team??

Anyway, I think RB and him will part company at end of the year, Webber jumping to ferrari (where he will always decline to accept any wings from Freddie, so to make Valve happy and pay back for the hex, and esp so Valve can tell that dumb idiot Markabilly, "I told you so, you dumb idoit markabilly")


and Vettel jumps over the the merc team (since haug seems to be unable to make kimi happy, even when eating/drinking/snorting with him at his big house in the hills of Switzerland), to replace Schuie to keep the team "pure blood" Germanic, well, ...... as nearly pure blood as Rosberg can be.....

but I hear the Vikes (now Finns) got around a lot, sailed down all the rivers of Russia and conquered (Russian actually means "river people" after the vikes) as well as conquered big chunks of da Vaterlund, so surely there is a connection there.......

of course then webber can rub it into Freddie about how Freddie never bad mouthed RD and the team on the radio after winning, or in a press conference, or put a proper stare down on hamilton, like Webber did to Vestall....

then Freddie will get mad, tell Stevo Domino, fire Webber or he will call maX and tell max about all those secrets stolen..... :eek:

Meanwhile Webber will tell Stevo that he is of secret Italian heritage, cementing their bonding, and Webber will then live happily ever after.....

remeber folks you heard it here first :vader:

This is the truth.

Exept the part about Kimi.

[Garry Walker]

http://sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/PsychicOctopus.jpg


:roftlmao:

[Retro Formula 1]

http://sniffpetrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/PsychicOctopus.jpg


:roftlmao:

:laugh:

The Octopod has as many legs as Horner has excuses for why Vettel isn't favoured :)

[Bagwan]

Webber owes Red Bull .

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-mark-webber-owes-red-bull-racing-helmut-marko/

Damn straight .

[driveace]

So they do not think that Vettel has all these mechanical problems due to him overdriving the car,or his aggressive style, I rate Vettel but do believe he is hard on his cars,wonder if he is as hard on his Lucious women!!!

[TMorel]

"Where was he two years ago"

I thought he was driving round your crappy car helping, along with the rest of the team to drag it into the winner it is now.

Where were you Marko?

[PSfan]

"Where was he two years ago"

I thought he was driving round your crappy car helping, along with the rest of the team to drag it into the winner it is now.

Where were you Marko?

Where was Marko... I think he was watching a single Toro Rosso driver outscore both his "veteran" red bull drivers combined...

[jas123f1]

well, Brutus.....err I mean Webber has done let loose with that shot which should be heard around the world.... :eek:

and echo on into eternity

Go ahead Webber, tell them what you think, you deserve it today

What a b--- , the team gave him a winning car and he is a big ... fool.. oo mamma mia... Go home Webber, go back to your island.. there you belongs.. behind Gods back ...

imo

[Saint Devote]

What a b--- , the team gave him a winning car and he is a big ... fool.. oo mamma mia... Go home Webber, go back to your island.. there you belongs.. behind Gods back ...

imo

Given that Webber has whipped Vettel's ass this year so far - as have Button and Hamilton - I think your "king of 2010" looks decidedly DEPOSED, auld sporte!

Mark's not stupid, he's been a round for a while and has honed in on what rattles fettle Vettel. The Germ driver was spooked so acted desperately by first trying to push Webber to the wall and then doing his usual when under pressure - unable to handle the situation and RUNNING OFF THE TRACK!!!

Maybe Webber should send some slashed lederhosen to the Vet Friday morning - just a thought :vader:

[Valve Bounce]

Webber owes Red Bull .

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-mark-webber-owes-red-bull-racing-helmut-marko/

Damn straight .

Yeah! Mark should be shamed. He is to blame for all the car troubles that have afflicted Vettel. Shame on Mark!

[Mia 01]

RBR should show Mark the door NOW.