Whither Mercedes?

[Saint Devote]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=375638&FS=F1

Expressing anger at where the marque finds itself halfway into the season and one week away from its home grand prix - its still Brawn-Illmor, Ross the Boss must be pleased it is HIS name that is not the team title.

The performance of Mercedes is identical to all auto manufacturers that have dared to enter formula 1. They have gone backwards and much to MY satisfaction, were well beaten by my favorite team last weekend: WILLIAMS :D

How satisfying for Frank, Patrick and Rubens :s mokin:
It was not a win, but it was mega nonetheless.

And on reflection - doesn't Jenson look the canny one for leaving? Must have a Scot somewhere in his genes!!!

Nico is angry, and has now publicly voiced his disastisfaction. I do like Nico because he is so much like his father Keke. From dismissing talk about "dangerous corners" at Suzuka to his outspokenness.

Would have been ever so kewl if Nico had been at Williams powered by a Mercedes engine this year. Oh well.

And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the reality is that Nico understands f1 today better than Michael and when will the team begin to compute firing solutions according to him rather than Schumi?

Half the boardroom at Mercedes did not want to enter f1 as a constructor. It was only the stature of the Merc CEO that prevailed and prevented a board room revolution.

This is the first year and they did not anticipate it would be a disaster - and this team is no Mclaren either!

Mercedes is the most interesting story and the question is whether it will be able to defy the odds as it becomes more and more a corporate entity. Ross may begin to feel that getting out of bed in the morning to do this stressfull and pressurized job is just too much. He in turn - and with real respect for this great racing invidual is no Frank Williams [but then who is? - they broke the mold] or Patrick Head.

[Mark]

I think it's increasingly clear that the Brawn episode was a blip. They happened to have a car which was ideally suited to the new regulations whereas the rest were struggling.
Mercedes or not I think they would be in a similar position this year even if Mercedes had not bought them out.

And it was indeed a very smart move by Button, yes he is somewhat playing second fiddle at McLaren, but not to the extent that we all thought he would.

[Koz]

I think it's increasingly clear that the Brawn episode was a blip. They happened to have a car which was ideally suited to the new regulations whereas the rest were struggling.
Mercedes or not I think they would be in a similar position this year even if Mercedes had not bought them out.

And it was indeed a very smart move by Button, yes he is somewhat playing second fiddle at McLaren, but not to the extent that we all thought he would.

It was clear since mid season last year. They were going down hill. I was surprised that Merc didn't think the same.

Honda spent billions, I always doubted Brawn/Merc would survive without the massive amounts of money.

Anyone have any ideas how much Merc invested in the team?

Edit: Also, not the deterioration of the team since they changed the wheelbase. They shot themselves in the foot. From Nico getting podiums to... :(

[AndyL]

Anyone have any ideas how much Merc invested in the team?

This is a good question... if Mercedes are putting in decent money then maybe they will come up with a competitive car next year. This year's car was developed on last year's shoestring budget whilst simultaneously trying to win the championship.

[Tazio]

I think it's increasingly clear that the Brawn episode was a blip. They happened to have a car which was ideally suited to the new regulations whereas the rest were struggling.
Mercedes or not I think they would be in a similar position this year even if Mercedes had not bought them out.

And it was indeed a very smart move by Button, yes he is somewhat playing second fiddle at McLaren, but not to the extent that we all thought he would.

Word up bro! :rolleyes: :s mokin:

[Daniel]

As said before they were on a shoestring budget last year when trying to develop last years car and this years one.

[truefan72]

Edit: Also, not the deterioration of the team since they changed the wheelbase. They shot themselves in the foot. From Nico getting podiums to... :(

exactly!

[Roamy]

exactly!

they are designing the car for ms who came back to racing to try and prove he could win without cheating or TC which he can't. What is worse is that Brawn knows this and is screwing the team. NIco was kicking the cheater's ass straight up and they should have went with Nico.

[Daniel]

Mercedes is also the legendary mark you gushed about the moment they were announced as buying Brawn and hiring Schumacher. The 'Silver Arrows' etc etc.... I suppose any man is allowed to change his mind. :\

:rotflmao:

Why do you have to be so crass? Why do you have to lower the tone of the forum? Why did Jody Schekter do this? Why oh why do people have to speak crapola :p

[Tazio]

:rotflmao:

Why do you have to be so crass? Why do you have to lower the tone of the forum? Why did Jody Schekter do this? Why oh why do people have to speak crapola :p Why does a muskrat guard his musk, from the dawny dawn to the dusky dusk?............................Courage!! :crazy: :s hock: :laugh:

[Daniel]

Why does a muskrat guard his musk, from the dawny dawn to the dusky dusk?............................Courage!! :crazy: :s hock: :laugh:
Rather apt. Senna would be proud to hear you speaking of the muskrat on an F1 as it was his favourite rodent.

[Saint Devote]

Mercedes is also the legendary mark you gushed about the moment they were announced as buying Brawn and hiring Schumacher. The 'Silver Arrows' etc etc.... I suppose any man is allowed to change his mind. :\

I do not recall "gushing" or anything else so I do not have to change my mind - it would require a shift in philosophical view.

I was disapppointed that Brawn was not continuing as a constructor. I do not and have never supported large coporate auto manufacturers coming into F1 as constructors.

It has been shown for a long time that the best tie-up is one where the engine is supplied only.

[Saint Devote]

I see this thread has collapsed - better if Pino deletes it.

[Daniel]

I do not recall "gushing" or anything else so I do not have to change my mind - it would require a shift in philosophical view.

I was disapppointed that Brawn was not continuing as a constructor. I do not and have never supported large coporate auto manufacturers coming into F1 as constructors.

It has been shown for a long time that the best tie-up is one where the engine is supplied only.

Yes, yes *strokes chin* it would require a heightened appreciation of machiavellian something or other wouldn't it old bean?


I see this thread has collapsed - better if Pino deletes it.

Why? The thread is fine.

[ioan]

I see this thread has collapsed - better if Pino deletes it.

No way Jose, no way.
The thread stays so that everyone can see your sudden 180 degree opinion changes! :D :p

[markabilly]

Yes, yes *strokes chin* it would require a heightened appreciation of machiavellian something or other wouldn't it old bean?

.


You rang??
You mean "markabillian" insight, which only comes from thinking without the tin hat and drinking the right mixture of koolaid and other special ingredients....

my thought is that the problem is that both brawn and MS forgot that they were NOT supposed to be in retirement this year, counting all their chickens before the eggs hatched....

I think next year will be different for both Ferrari and merc........... it will be 2011.

Too bad old maXievellian is not still in control as unlike Todt, he would be knowing how to fix things just fine....

everyone have a good sip of the 'aid, have a drink now, and you will see with special vision and wanna stroke something other than the chin...else you might go blind, but gushing just the same

[F1boat]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=375638&FS=F1
Would have been ever so kewl if Nico had been at Williams powered by a Mercedes engine this year. Oh well.

And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the reality is that Nico understands f1 today better than Michael and when will the team begin to compute firing solutions according to him rather than Schumi?



I dunno. Michael at least fights, he makes mistakes, but with the exception of China, he has showed that he is still a tough fighter, even if the amazing speed is gone, most likely forever. Nico is as good as his car. He had some lucky breaks in the first part of the season and now back he belongs IMO - a midfield driver in a midfield team.
And yes, Jenson did the right thing. He is losing to Hamilton, but he is against the fastest driver today and is doing a great job, fighting with him and a superior car for wins and the championship.

[Daniel]

You rang??
You mean "markabillian" insight, which only comes from thinking without the tin hat and drinking the right mixture of koolaid and other special ingredients....

my thought is that the problem is that both brawn and MS forgot that they were NOT supposed to be in retirement this year, counting all their chickens before the eggs hatched....

I think next year will be different for both Ferrari and merc........... it will be 2011.

Too bad old maXievellian is not still in control as unlike Todt, he would be knowing how to fix things just fine....

everyone have a good sip of the 'aid, have a drink now, and you will see with special vision and wanna stroke something other than the chin...else you might go blind, but gushing just the same
If Tazio Nuvolari were around today he say "WTF?" before scratching his left testicle and having a cigarette.

[VkmSpouge]

As said before they were on a shoestring budget last year when trying to develop last years car and this years one.

I don't think that was the problem. Mercedes started the year solidly amongst the best of the teams, so whatever the team did during the 2009 season and over the winter kept them roughly where Brawn were towards the end of last year.
They have since increasingly dropped away from the lead three and have been caught up by the midfield. So it is clear that the developments throughout the season have simply not been good enough.

[Daniel]

I don't think that was the problem. Mercedes started the year solidly amongst the best of the teams, so whatever the team did during the 2009 season and over the winter kept them roughly where Brawn were towards the end of last year.
They have since increasingly dropped away from the lead three and have been caught up by the midfield. So it is clear that the developments throughout the season have simply not been good enough.
Not everyone can be a winner :)

[speeddurango]

No it's the shortage of employees that restrain the delivery of performance. Wait until next year when new rules come into play in employment policy. Mercedez will be back and your poor little Williams will be bought by a rich Middle Eastern oil sheikh.

[jens]

As said before they were on a shoestring budget last year when trying to develop last years car and this years one.

2010 was always going to be a difficult season for the Brackley team due to a very rough 2009 in terms of keeping themselves alive. However, now they have got the money and should start showing some signs of improvement. So it could be a bit worrying if the upgrades don't work.

I personally think one of the ingredients they are missing, is Jörg Zander. What a coincidence - another German factory team named BMW-Sauber also started struggling after Zander had left, which finally ended in pulling out of F1. Are we going to see a repeat? :p :