I like EJ Viso, but hate his sponsor

[MDS]

So yeah, E.J. is a nice guy, a fast driver and he's done well to find sponsorship, but I don't see how I can in good conscious support someone who takes money from a near-bankrupt socialized company that has just requested the Venezuela government seize 11 U.S. owned oil rigs.


Lawmakers loyal to President Hugo Chavez authorized the nationalization of 11 oil rigs owned by U.S. driller Helmerich & Payne on Tuesday, saying the move was necessary to put the idled rigs back into operation. The predominantly pro-Chavez National Assembly declared the rigs "of public utility," clearing the way for the government to seize permanent control of the rigs used to extract heavy crude from oil fields.
The Tulsa, Oklahoma-based company shut the rigs down last year because Venezuela's state oil company, PDVSA, was behind on payments. The company said last week that PDVSA's debt was $43 million as of June 14.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9GL7LI00.htm

[anthonyvop]

Logically if you hate PDVSA then you hate Viso. He has been sponsored by that terrorist supporting Government agency for years. It wasn't like he was forced to take the sponsorship.

[MDS]

Hate is a strong word. I don't support his country, but I can understand that socialism is a cultural thing and if EJ didn't take money from PDVSA then he wouldn't be racing and because Venezuela is a socialist country there isn't a strong corporate base for him to get financial help from, and its not like American sponsors are lining up to pay for signage on Indy cars at the moment.

It's a complicated issue, but yeah, his sponsor is $21 billion in debt and is seizing private assets of U.S. companies, can't possibly support that.

[anthonyvop]

Hate is a strong word. I don't support his country, but I can understand that socialism is a cultural thing and if EJ didn't take money from PDVSA then he wouldn't be racing and because Venezuela is a socialist country there isn't a strong corporate base for him to get financial help from, and its not like American sponsors are lining up to pay for signage on Indy cars at the moment.

It's a complicated issue, but yeah, his sponsor is $21 billion in debt and is seizing private assets of U.S. companies, can't possibly support that.

For me the VENE. Government nationalizing private companies is bad but pales in comparison with the Vene. Gov's use of public funds, including PDVSA, and Government officials to support terrorism.

http://qorreo.com/2010/03/the-terror-connection-a-common-cause-for-the-farc-eta-and-al-qaeda/790

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I hate PDVSA because EJ's car is the ugliest. That's my contribution to the debate. Cheers.

[glauistean]

So yeah, E.J. is a nice guy, a fast driver and he's done well to find sponsorship, but I don't see how I can in good conscious support someone who takes money from a near-bankrupt socialized company that has just requested the Venezuela government seize 11 U.S. owned oil rigs.


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9GL7LI00.htm

Idiotic threads like these with idiotic comments on socio - political situations in other countries that you obviously don't have a clue about, do not belong on a motorsport forum.

What is wrong with a socialized company? There are many world wide.

We also have the police, armed forces, fire fighters, social security, medicare, medicaid and much more. All socialized. Are we bad?

So, when you raise political garbage, read up on what your post is trying to say and not spew at the mouth as others have done.

Did you whine and moan when Ford was the main engine in Champcar? Why are you not whining about Honda. Iwo Jima and the Bataan march should be more accurate for your venting and spewing of garbage.

[anthonyvop]

Idiotic threads like these with idiotic comments on socio - political situations in other countries that you obviously don't have a clue about, do not belong on a motorsport forum.

What makes you think you know more about the situation than I do?


What is wrong with a socialized company? There are many world wide.
As I stated my main complaint with The Vene. Gov is their support of Narco-Terrorists.


So, when you raise political garbage, read up on what your post is trying to say and not spew at the mouth as others have done.

Again. I ask. What makes you think you know more about PDVSA than I do?


Did you whine and moan when Ford was the main engine in Champcar?

Huh? Ford is a Private Company.


Why are you not whining about Honda. Iwo Jima and the Bataan march should be more accurate for your venting and spewing of garbage.

While despicable actions how does anyone hold Honda responsible for those actions? Honda was found in 1948. Years after WW2

[MDS]

Idiotic threads like these with idiotic comments on socio - political situations in other countries that you obviously don't have a clue about, do not belong on a motorsport forum.

What is wrong with a socialized company? There are many world wide.

We also have the police, armed forces, fire fighters, social security, medicare, medicaid and much more. All socialized. Are we bad?

So, when you raise political garbage, read up on what your post is trying to say and not spew at the mouth as others have done.

Did you whine and moan when Ford was the main engine in Champcar? Why are you not whining about Honda. Iwo Jima and the Bataan march should be more accurate for your venting and spewing of garbage.

You're right socialized companies have worked out great for Greece, but I didn't say I had a problem with socialized companies, I said I had a problem with PDVSA, seizing the assets of an American company. Their actions are undisputed, as is the fact they are a socialized company that is in debt some $40 billion dollars.

Discussion of a sports sponsors has often been discussion, from Trojan being banned from NASCAR in the 90s, to AVN in Champ Car in 2006, controversial sponsors are a topic of discussion, and yes, I think its fair to discuss PDVSA's actions.

[glauistean]

You're right socialized companies have worked out great for Greece, but I didn't say I had a problem with socialized companies, I said I had a problem with PDVSA, seizing the assets of an American company. Their actions are undisputed, as is the fact they are a socialized company that is in debt some $40 billion dollars.

Discussion of a sports sponsors has often been discussion, from Trojan being banned from NASCAR in the 90s, to AVN in Champ Car in 2006, controversial sponsors are a topic of discussion, and yes, I think its fair to discuss PDVSA's actions.

I must say that you are quite adept at keeping your argument so narrow. You mention Greece. One country. Can you name a few more that have failed because I for one can name 30 to 50 with socialized programs that are stable and wealthy. Take for example Denmark. Education totally paid for all the way through college(university)medical totally paid for. Travelling by seniors free as it is in Ireland. As in Denmark, Ireland has many companies that are run by the government. Eircom, Bord Gas, Rado Telefis Eireann and Board Na Mona.

The point of your argument has nothing to do with PDVSA. That's your smoke screen. Your real argument is with the government. You're most likely a right wing supporter. So have at it. As far as discussing sponsors limit it to them and not drawing in the politicizing crowd.

Tell me MDS. What is wrong with socialized companies?

[glauistean]

What makes you think you know more about the situation than I do?

Did I say I know more than you, specifically.


As I stated my main complaint with The Vene. Gov is their support of Narco-Terrorists.

Where have you heard this and has there been a investigation and trial to prove it


Again. I ask. What makes you think you know more about PDVSA than I do?

Never said I did. Did you know who PDVSA was before you heard that Citgo was part of the company and it was Venezuelan



Huh? Ford is a Private Company.

So, your argument is the politics of the issue. Not the moral aspects such as Ford supplying vehicles to the Nazi government during WWII?



While despicable actions how does anyone hold Honda responsible for those actions? Honda was found in 1948. Years after WW2

The course of your argument is going off in many directions. Tangents to be precise. Honda is Japanese. Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Ergo, anything that comes from a government (your argument) that has socialized programs
is to be disliked. That is the simplicity of it. That is also why it does not belong on a Auto sport forum.

[MDS]

The point of your argument has nothing to do with PDVSA. That's your smoke screen. Your real argument is with the government. You're most likely a right wing supporter. So have at it. As far as discussing sponsors limit it to them and not drawing in the politicizing crowd.

E.J. Viso can be a socialist, it's part of his culture, like female genital mutilation is part of certain tribal cultures, I don't agree with it, but E.J. doesn't get to vote in America and so he can have whatever views he likes.

PDVSA stole equipment from an American company after that American company shut down production because the Venezuelan government refused to pay them. PDVSA asked the government to seize, in my opinion illegally seize, the assets and PDVSA sponsors Viso, E.J. takes moeny from PDVSA so tassetly at least he approves of their actions, and if there were another race in the south I'd seriously consider protesting in some fashion. If EJ and PDVSA are back next year I'll probably have a shirt made and probably put out some signs at my campsite at Barber. It's one thing if you want to be a socialist, that's not illegal just stupid, but another if your sponsor thinks its okay to seize American assets.

Also, all those benefits that Denmark gives its citizens that you claim are "free" aren't. Denmark has the highest taxation of personal and corporate income in the world, some of their citizens are taxed at 63 percent, and their VAT tax is the highest in the world at 25 percent. I consider that failure.

[anthonyvop]

The course of your argument is going off in many directions. Tangents to be precise. Honda is Japanese. Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Ergo, anything that comes from a government (your argument) that has socialized programs
is to be disliked. That is the simplicity of it. That is also why it does not belong on a Auto sport forum.

Your logic is seriously flawed.

Honda has no connection to the Japanese government that led to WW2. In fact Honda's creation can be directly attributed to the dismantling of that Government post WW2.

PDVSA has connections to the financial assistance to current Terrorist organizations.