NASCAR double headers in the future?

[MDS]

So while Randy Bernard was in Loudon he talked about the possibility of double-header weekends with the Cup series. While the there was no need to do this when track operators were selling tickets to Cup races as fast as they could build stands, but now with every track seeing swaths of empty seats, which will likely continue for several years, double headers make some sense.

There is a good bit of crossover between NASCAR and Indy fans, and holding two events on one weekend reduces the capitol outlay for track owners. Obviously it would help the ICS more than it wold NASCAR, but if track owners want it I don't seen NASCAR dismissing it. The only time I heard of a serious offer being made was for a Wednesday night race at Phoenix and it was never considered by the ICS. A bad economy makes for stranger partnerships though.

The tracks I see as most likely to embrace the idea:

Las Vegas: The Trucks run a stand alone event at Vegas on Sept. 25, I'm hearing this may be the championship weekend for the ICS next year with the trucks and the FIL running in support. I think this is the only double header we're likely to see next year.

Road America: The crowd for the Nationwide race was outstanding and I'd look for their to be a multiple year contract for the support series. I could see the ICS getting its own date later in the summer/fall or combining with the Nationwide Series.

Michigan: Attendance has been declining for years, Michigan hosts three series at the June race and could run a 400 mile ICS race on the Saturday before a Cup race without a whole lot of effort.

Charlotte: Apparently Bruton is open to the idea of the ICS racing there, both the Bush and Cup races are evening events, so the ICS could run in the day before either race.

Randy talked about it here:
http://www.mikemulhern.net/index.php?q=breakingnow/nascar-sprint-cup-and-indy-cars-double-header-race-weekends-irls-randy-bernard-loves-ide

[slorydn1]

...and would hope to see more of this, especially if it were during a Cup series weekend where the is a higher probability of out of town fans staying the entire weekend and needing something to watch on Saturday beisdes Cup practice. That would help the Indy Car race with attendance and could only be good for the sport.

The fly in the ointment when pairing with the lower Nascar series could be just one simple word: "support"

When Indy Car and the Nationwide Series race the same weekend, which race is the "support" race. Which is the main event? Allthough it makes no difference to me, personally, there are many high up in both camps that would look down their nose at being called the "support" series.

Arguments could have been made last month at Kansas that since the Indy Car race was on Saturday, and the Truck Series race was in the prime Sunday slot, that Indy Car was the support race for the Truck race. That doesn't sit well with me, that the top rung open wheel race could be considered a support race for a third tier tin-top event, and I am a NASCAR guy first. I can only imagine the blistering someone would take if they had come in here stating that as fact, and I'm not so sure the Indy Car brass would like it either if the press called them that.

But , be that as it may, I think anytime the two disciplines can get together it makes both stronger and builds the fan base.

[Redstorm]

So while Randy Bernard was in Loudon he talked about the possibility of double-header weekends with the Cup series. While the there was no need to do this when track operators were selling tickets to Cup races as fast as they could build stands, but now with every track seeing swaths of empty seats, which will likely continue for several years, double headers make some sense.

There is a good bit of crossover between NASCAR and Indy fans, and holding two events on one weekend reduces the capitol outlay for track owners. Obviously it would help the ICS more than it wold NASCAR, but if track owners want it I don't seen NASCAR dismissing it. The only time I heard of a serious offer being made was for a Wednesday night race at Phoenix and it was never considered by the ICS. A bad economy makes for stranger partnerships though.

The tracks I see as most likely to embrace the idea:

Las Vegas: The Trucks run a stand alone event at Vegas on Sept. 25, I'm hearing this may be the championship weekend for the ICS next year with the trucks and the FIL running in support. I think this is the only double header we're likely to see next year.

Road America: The crowd for the Nationwide race was outstanding and I'd look for their to be a multiple year contract for the support series. I could see the ICS getting its own date later in the summer/fall or combining with the Nationwide Series.

Michigan: Attendance has been declining for years, Michigan hosts three series at the June race and could run a 400 mile ICS race on the Saturday before a Cup race without a whole lot of effort.

Charlotte: Apparently Bruton is open to the idea of the ICS racing there, both the Bush and Cup races are evening events, so the ICS could run in the day before either race.

Randy talked about it here:
http://www.mikemulhern.net/index.php?q=breakingnow/nascar-sprint-cup-and-indy-cars-double-header-race-weekends-irls-randy-bernard-loves-ide
Could be plausible, but i would keep an eye over my shoulder. Make sure there is no way that NASCAR can lock ICS in ass the ******* step child..........

[Scotty G.]

When Indy Car (and the Hulman Sisters) finally say "Uncle" and sell, you might just see the "NASCAR Izod (or insert new sponsor here) Indy Car Series". Don't try and think this isn't a possibility.

Indy Cars on Saturday Nights and Cup on Sunday afternoon at many places. Give the paying public more "bang for their buck" in tough (and only getting tougher) economic times. Instead of pick em' up trucks, give them a Indy Car race. Trucks may eventually be phased out, with ARCA being more relevent for developing future Nationwide/Cup drivers.

[booger]

Ain't never gonna happen. The reason: sanctioning fees. Most promoters have a tough enough time coming up with a sanctioning fee for one series and to come up with two for one weekend would be very, very difficult financially and you couldn't sell enough tickets to make it feasible. Good idea in theory, bad idea financially.

[00steven]

I would love to see it happen but I think there would be way to many obstacles to overcome.

[MDS]

Ain't never gonna happen. The reason: sanctioning fees. Most promoters have a tough enough time coming up with a sanctioning fee for one series and to come up with two for one weekend would be very, very difficult financially and you couldn't sell enough tickets to make it feasible. Good idea in theory, bad idea financially.

That's why I think the only one we'll see next year is Las Vegas because there is already a stand alone CTS race, its late in the year, they won't have to come up with a Cup and an ICS sanctioning fee on the same weekend. For them it makes sense because they're already paying track workers for that weekend and they don't have a strong headliner event.

I don't think we're likely to see a Cup and ICS race on the same weekend with the possible exception of Michigan.

[NaBUru38]

I believe that it's likely that some new IndyCar races will share card with the Nascar Truck Series, but not Cup or Nationwide.

[nigelred5]

How many times did CART/CCWS split the bill with the trucks.
IIRC, in Vegas where they ran after the truck race on the same evening, they basically kept a few fans entertained while they were waiting for the parking lots to clear.

Sounds like what mr smith wants, mr smith will get.

[Mark in Oshawa]

When Indy Car (and the Hulman Sisters) finally say "Uncle" and sell, you might just see the "NASCAR Izod (or insert new sponsor here) Indy Car Series". Don't try and think this isn't a possibility.

I think the anti-trust legislation in the US might be a factor. The Idea of NASCAR owning everything save SCCA Trans AM/WC and ALMS is not a good one in my mind....

That said, I think if NASCAR DID own the Indycar series, it would be a better run operation....


Indy Cars on Saturday Nights and Cup on Sunday afternoon at many places. Give the paying public more "bang for their buck" in tough (and only getting tougher) economic times. Instead of pick em' up trucks, give them a Indy Car race. Trucks may eventually be phased out, with ARCA being more relevent for developing future Nationwide/Cup drivers.

I wont dispute your ARCA assertion here (this is the Indycar board afterall but you are wrong on that). That said, I do think at a few venues sharing with NASCAR can work, but only with the Trucks or NW. Putting them on the same bill with Cup would be just a VERY bad idea.....

[Civic]

How many times did CART/CCWS split the bill with the trucks.
IIRC, in Vegas where they ran after the truck race on the same evening, they basically kept a few fans entertained while they were waiting for the parking lots to clear.

Sounds like what mr smith wants, mr smith will get.

I was there in 2004 and that's exactly what happened. A lot of the crowd left after the Truck race. The rest either stayed to avoid traffic, see what a Champ Car race was like, or were there (like me) specifically for the Champ Car race.

The highlight for me was seeing Jeremy Shaw (journalist) in the tunnel under the track and then him remembering me a week later at Fontana for the IRL event.

I took the attached pic from the end of the grandstand looking back to the rest of the stands.

[DavePI2]

please say nascar buying indy is a joke. All we need is debris yellow flags, a chase, double file restarts(shootout syle) and fixed races.

[wbcobrar]

I think if a shared weekend were to happen, Road America would be perfect. I camped at the Nationwide event this year, and clearly a stronger second series is needed for the future. Though I believe when Indy returns to Road America, it will more likely be at the top of the card with ALMS.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

I think if a shared weekend were to happen, Road America would be perfect. I camped at the Nationwide event this year, and clearly a stronger second series is needed for the future. Though I believe when Indy returns to Road America, it will more likely be at the top of the card with ALMS.

Don't hold your breath!

[anthonyvop]

Does anybody really think that it is a good Idea for the IRL to run as a support series for NASCAR?

[NickFalzone]

Does anybody really think that it is a good Idea for the IRL to run as a support series for NASCAR?

I think it would be fine to run as a support series for Cup. But to run as a support series for a support series (ie nwide or worse trucks) is far more likely to happen, and far more negative for the IRL.

[Mark in Oshawa]

please say nascar buying indy is a joke. All we need is debris yellow flags, a chase, double file restarts(shootout syle) and fixed races.

They aint buying Indycar. All we were suggesting was they might share a weekend with the Trucks or Nationwide likely.

Like....why would we want double file restarts? They might be actually interesting...unlike watching the pace car take off and the long single file string string out again. One thing you still don't get. People WATCH NASCAR...they are not always watching the IRL. So to dismiss all what NASCAR does is a stupid way to think.....

On the way they run their road course races and how free they are with full course cautions, I am in agreement with you. That said, they do a lot right....

[DanicaFan]

They aint buying Indycar. All we were suggesting was they might share a weekend with the Trucks or Nationwide likely.


The Indycar Series already shares 4 weekends with the Truck series this season. Below is how the schedule went for both series on shared weekends..

Kansas Speedway
Indycar- May 1, Trucks - May 2

Texas Motor Speedway
Indycar - June 5, Truks -June 4

Chicagoland Speedway
Indycar - August 28, Trucks - August 27

Kentucky Speedway
Indycar - September 4, Trucks, September 3