Look who's talking about manipulated races

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84837

:\

[Ranger]

'Manipulated' really wasn't the best word for him to use, was it? :p

[markabilly]

Look who's talking about manipulated races


an expert??

[ioan]

an expert??

Yep, however I bet he won't accept the accolades!

[truefan72]

poor choice of words, poor memory. I don't recall him complaining about rosberg taking even more time than that to serve his drive thru penalty at Singapore 2008. This was a real close call for the stewards as the safety car was still in the pit exit lane and hamilton only just barely was behind him, almost side by side. Alonso just reconfirming his mantle as #1 crybaby

[BDunnell]

Yes, not the cleverest words, nor the cleverest comment. As I said in another thread, it may have been a bit unfair, but everything about the penalty and the way it was taken was within the rules. What's to debate? Yes, the stewards should have made the decision sooner, I'm sure, but they didn't.

[I am evil Homer]

Not surprised...its Alonso who has no class and is this biggest cheat and liar on the grid

[DazzlaF1]

So Hamilton slightly misjudged where the safety car was.

Take a hint alonso, it was investigated, he was penalised and he took the penalty, s**t happens, move on. But of course, you're Fernando Alonso, you dont want to move on dont you?

[Ranger]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84837

:\

Just wait until Luca di Montezemolo opens his mouth about this! :D

[truefan72]

Just wait until Luca di Montezemolo opens his mouth about this! :D

oh boy, I hope he lets this one go
lest every team schedules 4 filming days in the next few weeks

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84814

[UltimateDanGTR]

Luca di Montezemelo, centre stage is yours.....

[Garry Walker]

Those are really funny comments by this jerk, but he has shown many times before that 95% of things that come out of his mouth are the rantings of a rabied lunatic.

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh yeah, testing your new blown exhaust by calling it a "media shoot" is all within the rules, but this he whines about, even after Hamilton took the proper penalty.

Whiner of the race: Fernando Alonso

Instead of whining over the radio about Hamilton, he should have STFU and concentrated on overtaking Buemi, which he couldn't do for half of the race in a superior car, and then Kobayashi came and schooled both of them in under 2 laps, with an inferior car. I guess sometimes his brain farts away his magical "6 tenths". :rolleyes:

[MrMetro]

Oh yeah, testing your new blown exhaust by calling it a "media shoot" is all within the rules, but this he whines about, even after Hamilton took the proper penalty.

Whiner of the race: Fernando Alonso

Instead of whining over the radio about Hamilton, he should have STFU and concentrated on overtaking Buemi, which he couldn't do for half of the race in a superior car, and then Kobayashi came and schooled both of them in under 2 laps, with an inferior car. I guess sometimes his brain farts away his magical "6 tenths". :rolleyes:

Well said. Todays whinging from Alonso makes me dislike him even more. His atttiude for a two time world championship is awful.

[ioan]

I think its just badly vented frustration and when he see's the replay of how close Lewis was to the safety car he'll feel like a right plum.

You are overestimating him by a huge margin.

[christophulus]

Pfft. Ferrari and Alonso shooting their mouth off once again. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Ferrari also suggesting that the race was a "scandal":

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84854

[K-Pu]

The first manipulated thing is the statement in Autosport. Alonso did not say anything about a manipulated race in Spanish. He said something about an unrealistic race, but nothing related to manipulation.

In fact, if you translate the Spanish "irreal" with "manipulated", you are being quite creative, since there is no way to get it. This one goes for the british press, now very keen on Spain. They even say Spain lost their first match at the World Cup because of Casillas´ girlfriend, which is more than nonsense.

If soeone is looking for a reason to bash Alonso, this is not the good one. There are maaaany of them, but not this one.

[DazzlaF1]

Pfft. Ferrari and Alonso shooting their mouth off once again. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Ferrari also suggesting that the race was a "scandal":

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84854

oh please Ferrari, for gawds sake, STFU!?!?!?

[markabilly]

I agree the race was a scandal and a disgrace....worst nonsense from stewards i have seen since in a long time, .....well, since monaco in 2010....

i think it was "honest" probably but totally inept

[Tazio]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84837

:\ I must admit that is the stupidest thing I ever heard him say.
I doubt he will be stewarding races in his next career! :laugh:

[mstillhere]

I agree the race was a scandal and a disgrace....worst nonsense from stewards i have seen since in a long time, .....well, since monaco in 2010....

i think it was "honest" probably but totally inept

I agree. Lately McLAren's new startegy is breaking the rules of commone sense like the Brawn team last year) respected by everyone else, play stupid and then say: really?? You cant pass the SC?? or: Really?? You can't run of out gas after you pass the finish line???
or: Really??? You can't cheat????

After all, LH looks more and more like MS, but for the wrong reasons.

[mstillhere]

The first manipulated thing is the statement in Autosport. Alonso did not say anything about a manipulated race in Spanish. He said something about an unrealistic race, but nothing related to manipulation.

In fact, if you translate the Spanish "irreal" with "manipulated", you are being quite creative, since there is no way to get it. This one goes for the british press, now very keen on Spain. They even say Spain lost their first match at the World Cup because of Casillas´ girlfriend, which is more than nonsense.

If soeone is looking for a reason to bash Alonso, this is not the good one. There are maaaany of them, but not this one.

Supporting your point:
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=48721

[donKey jote]

Ham was crafty enough (again) to use the SC to gain an [whinge on]unfair[/whinge off] advantage...
Alonso was on the receiving end and -quite understandably- is fuming :p :
Still, time to shut up and drive :)

[donKey jote]

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Ha/sido/carrera/manipulada/elpepudep/20100627elpepudep_7/Tes

"Aquí, cuando respetas las banderas amarillas quedas noveno y cuando no, segundo. Por desgracia todo va en contra nuestra. Es una desgracia para todos los aficionados, que han venido hasta aquí para ver una carrera manipulada. Me da pena lo que ha visto la gente, porque no ha sido una carrera real"

Babelfish:

Here, when you respect the yellow flags you are ninth and when no, secondly. Unfortunately everything goes against ours. It is a misfortune for all the fans, who have come up to here to see a manipulated race. It gives pain me which has seen people, because it has not been a real race

http://www.marca.com/2010/06/27/motor/formula1/1277647780.html
:dozey:

[Mia 01]

If Lewis is saying that he didn´t observed the saefty car, well then he is lying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK9GsF1bLWk&translated=1

[rohanweb]

poor choice of words, poor memory. I don't recall him complaining about rosberg taking even more time than that to serve his drive thru penalty at Singapore 2008. This was a real close call for the stewards as the safety car was still in the pit exit lane and hamilton only just barely was behind him, almost side by side. Alonso just reconfirming his mantle as #1 crybaby


absolutely matey !

Alonso gone past his sell by date and he cannot get pole , he cannot over take wisely, he cannot control a race & he cannot put his car where a following car could over take him.

the F1's crybaby MUST stop worrying about things dont matter so much to him and instead shutup and drive like a champion and BEAT Lewis hamilton fair and square ON TRACK.

WHY a 2 times world champion like Fernando alonso needs to be told what to by his engineer... is he weak in making race decisions himself? something very wrong here.. Alonso should just retire at once if cannot challenge Lewis..

[rohanweb]

Ham was crafty enough (again) to use the SC to gain an [whinge on]unfair[/whinge off] advantage...

YES ALL the great champions have MADE THE MOST of changing circumstances to thier advantage in the previous years..everyone knows it, Lewis hamilton is a great champion and he is the best out there..get over it..

Alonso was on the receiving end and -quite understandably- is fuming :p :
Still, time to shut up and drive :)

agreed, Alonso is past sell by date, he doesnt have the caliber of mixing with Lewis/vettel like drivers aymore.often to his fault he finds himself in the midpack fighting with gp2 drivers, the fumes at lewis hamilton comes from him and his fans of ferrari is because Lewis have beaten him time after time,Lewis knows how to take the best out of his car by going that extra tenth or something.

the SC issue was a close call and any driver would have made that inch mistake and Lewis served the penalty and cameback and maintained his place, i am very sure he could have won the race today...why ALonso is always dreaming about Lewis hamilton? he is only creating more problems for him.. its either Alonso is secretly Gay or he is surely cracking at the wheel of ferrari..signs are appearing though.

[donKey jote]

:dozey:

[christophulus]

Another factor in this is that the Valencia pitlane is pretty short. Even with the 60kph limit (rather than 100kph) Hamilton had a shorter distance to travel. At another track he'd probably have dropped a few places.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'll tell you what wasn't "manipulated": when Kamui Kobayashi slapped Alonso three times in the mouth (Trinity style!) before he could even get his hand on his gun.

I'm glad Alonso is in the sport though. It's made me like Michael Schumacher a whole lot more. :p :

[BDunnell]

They even say Spain lost their first match at the World Cup because of Casillas´ girlfriend, which is more than nonsense.

I don't believe this story originated in the British media.

[mstillhere]

absolutely matey !

Alonso gone past his sell by date and he cannot get pole , he cannot over take wisely, he cannot control a race & he cannot put his car where a following car could over take him.

the F1's crybaby MUST stop worrying about things dont matter so much to him and instead shutup and drive like a champion and BEAT Lewis hamilton fair and square ON TRACK.

WHY a 2 times world champion like Fernando alonso needs to be told what to by his engineer... is he weak in making race decisions himself? something very wrong here.. Alonso should just retire at once if cannot challenge Lewis..

How can you beat somebody fair and square when this "somebody" cheats?
That's exactly Alonso's question.

[mstillhere]

agreed, Alonso is past sell by date, he doesnt have the caliber of mixing with Lewis/vettel like drivers aymore.often to his fault he finds himself in the midpack fighting with gp2 drivers, the fumes at lewis hamilton comes from him and his fans of ferrari is because Lewis have beaten him time after time,Lewis knows how to take the best out of his car by going that extra tenth or something.

the SC issue was a close call and any driver would have made that inch mistake and Lewis served the penalty and cameback and maintained his place, i am very sure he could have won the race today...why ALonso is always dreaming about Lewis hamilton? he is only creating more problems for him.. its either Alonso is secretly Gay or he is surely cracking at the wheel of ferrari..signs are appearing though.

Close call???? Did you watch the race or the video?

[mstillhere]

He was punished get over it.

Some punishment, really.

[Jag_Warrior]

How can you beat somebody fair and square when this "somebody" cheats?
That's exactly Alonso's question.

Since Alonso can't seem to figure it out for himself, I suggest he ask Kamui Kobayashi... ya know, the man who laid a beat down on Fernandito today. :dozey:

[mstillhere]

Since Alonso can't seem to figure it out for himself, I suggest he ask Kamui Kobayashi... ya know, the man who laid a beat down on Fernandito today. :dozey:

That's because Alonso played and followed the rules. He did not ram into him, cut him off, slam into him you know all the dirty tricks we all have seen LH playing at the expense of those who do follow the rules. But as Alonso said today, nowadays only if you cheat you get rewarded. Following the rules is just for suckers, right?

[CNR]

i seen Flavio Briatore on the startgrid before the race ?

[pino]

I wouldn't say the race was "manipulated" but for sure somenthing strange and unfair happened there. Before the incident, Alonso and Massa were on 3th and 4th pos, safety car came in, both Ferrari drivers respected the rules, only to find them both in 9th and 16th position...That's unfair no matter how much we dislike Alonso :rolleyes:

[electron]

pacecar shuffe happens.

other series are suspected to throw "fake yellows" just for show you know!

so what, be clever and try to gain, instead of whine if you lose.
Was that beer bottle coming from Fernandos car? Maybe to provoke another debris caution?

Ferrari had a lot of suger up the pipes on McLarens (and LHs) expense so they better be quiet about riding the edge of rules.

And Fernando is the very last person who should call manipulated.

[Big Ben]

Bla bla bla... the same people saying the same things over and over again.

Ioan with his blind love for Schumi now vents his frustation around here and everyone has to put uo with his BS. If anything Alonso did this year would have been done by his idol he would be banging his head to the wall from the other side. The same thing can be said by the British army which will always defend LH´s antics all the time... it never strikes them that it can´t be ok for a driver to be involved in smaller or bigger scandal at every race. if things would have been the other way around how many times the "the ferrari international assistance" would have been mentioned?

And garry boy with his anger management problems... just like commercials on tv--- you read and you read and then there it is.... you go pee...

[Big Ben]

Say what you mean eh.. :p
You are right but the only thing missing from this thread was the usual "reaction posters", so welcome. :)

PS: If you don't mind me saying thats a fairly long post with opinions on other posters, so what about your opinion on the subject in hand??

my opinion is that any of you would have been frustrated in Alonso´s shoes yesterday... and I'm pretty sure almost anyone would have said the exact opposite if their favorite driver had been in that situation... I understand people have preferences... I have my one.... but shouldn´t we at least attempt a little objectivity? I was thinking last night what I was going to find here today... and guess what? 100% accuracy ... if only weather forecasts would be half this reliable

[Tazio]

my opinion is that any of you would have been frustrated in Alonso´s shoes yesterday... and I'm pretty sure almost anyone would have said the exact opposite if their favorite driver had been in that situation... I understand people have preferences... I have my one.... but shouldn´t we at least attempt a little objectivity? I was thinking last night what I was going to find here today... and guess what? 100% accuracy ... if only weather forecasts would be half this reliableWell stated.
And there is a very old expression I believe it originated in Spain
So most likely it will be mis-understood by the people it woud enlighten the most.
It! goes sometmimg like this:

"From your lips to god's ears"

[Big Ben]

Well maybe you should have read read through the thread and take a double look, rather than making the assumption every British fan on here is dead against Alonso. Most have suggested the FIA took far too long to dish out a decision, me included. I sympathise with Fernando, but its gone his way on many occasions and he needs to move on from this. See below for my previous post on this matter and see how I didn't join in the bashing. :)

Not all... most of the British... I have nothing against you. You are pretty moderate. You should be the least offended of what I´ve said.

[Big Ben]

pacecar shuffe happens.

other series are suspected to throw "fake yellows" just for show you know!



I don´t really get what you are saying. Who care about the fake flags in other series?



so what, be clever and try to gain, instead of whine if you lose.

so you are suggesting it´s because he lacks intellegence he didn´t pass the cars in front of him--- he didn´t figure out he could do that? it doesn´t look that difficult from your couch does it?




Was that beer bottle coming from Fernandos car? Maybe to provoke another debris caution?

I hope that´s just a poor attempt of joking...

[I am evil Homer]

He was unlcuky. But TBH Hamilton was given a hard time on here bitching about his brakes in Monaco and Alonso is getting the same treatment - seems pretty even handed to me.

[I am evil Homer]

I wouldn't say the race was "manipulated" but for sure somenthing strange and unfair happened there. Before the incident, Alonso and Massa were on 3th and 4th pos, safety car came in, both Ferrari drivers respected the rules, only to find them both in 9th and 16th position...That's unfair no matter how much we dislike Alonso :rolleyes:

Unlucky rather than unfair. As mentioned Valencia has a very short pit entry/exit so Hamilton got lucky it was at this track. But he was punished, 100% by the rules as laid out. I don't like it but it is what it is. Next time someone else may get a break.

I'd say the 5 seconds penalties handed out after the race to the speeding cars is far more controversial and more a case of making up rules on the fly.

[pino]

Unlucky rather than unfair. As mentioned Valencia has a very short pit entry/exit so Hamilton got lucky it was at this track. But he was punished, 100% by the rules as laid out. I don't like it but it is what it is. Next time someone else may get a break.



Unlucky when somenthing anexpected happens, not when FIA takes a wrong decision that penalizes a driver/Team. So insted of criticises Alonso people in here should criticise FIA...

[ArrowsFA1]

I do not see why the FIA officials cannot act more quickly to resolve these kind of things as they happen.

When Hamilton passed the SC he should have immediately been instructed by officials to drop back behind the SC. Instead, they sit on their hands then issue a drive through penalty which had minimal effect. I don't think Hamilton was seeking an advantage. He simply did not know the rules and for that he deserved a penalty.

The FIA officials have TV monitors showing them the whole circuit. They have software which shows them the position of every car at all times. They control the SC and can communicate with it, and the teams, at all times. How difficult is it for them to act quickly and decisively?

This shows, again, that the FIA have a lot more to do when it comes to the officiating of races before those making these decisions earn the respect of the fans and competitors.

When I was watching the race live my first reaction was that Alonso was just moaning again, but he was spot on and I can understand why he & Ferrari feel aggrieved. Things fell in a way which messed up their race big time. None of it was intentional, but in the end the combination of events hurt Ferrari more than most.

[pino]

Another great post from you ArrowsFA1...thanks :up:

[christophulus]

I never understood why the FIA decided to change the rules. There's no refuelling this year, so just shut the pitlane the second the SC is deployed, wait for everyone to form up and then reopen it. No one needs to pit unless they've got an obvious puncture or whatever. Would certainly avoid them faffing about with these "deltas" and whatever.

[I am evil Homer]

Unlucky when somenthing anexpected happens, not when FIA takes a wrong decision that penalizes a driver/Team. So insted of criticises Alonso people in here should criticise FIA...

Absolutely, 100% agree. But there are others here and in the media that make out like Hamilton passed the SC on purpose. Which is 100% BS too.

Arrows makes the point well....why not just get the FIA to say "Lewis let the SC past and reform behind it". But no it was mess.

Alonso rightly deserves criticism for losing his head and allowing cars that have no place overtaking him to do so. From all the inboards he looked ragged and out of sorts - seemed too busy thinking about penalties and not on his own race.

[markabilly]

Absolutely, 100% agree. But there are others here and in the media that make out like Hamilton passed the SC on purpose. Which is 100% BS too.

.
Actually after looking at a video last night before f1 managment blocked it, it appears that LH saw the SC and slowed down dramatically and so FA was forced to slow as well..... It appeared that LH was going to slot in behind the SC, but then gives it a bit of gas as to pass it before before the SC safety line, and misjudges by only a few feet or perhaps .002 of a second....

Now if one had all the necessary data and radio transmissions, one could use it to make an argument that LH thought, if I time it just right, I can hang up FA behind the SC, but I can pass without penalty and gain the advantage.

Is that what he was really thinking and doing???? I have no idea. As to what LH says, he demonstarted himself to be such a liar, threw Davey Ryan and RD under the bus with the Trulli incident, one can not beleive him....

What is clear, if both LH and FA had not slowed, both would have made it past the SC before the white line was crossed by the SC.

If LH was so brilliant to come out with such a plan, I say, BRILLIANT....and would explain why FA is so PO...OTOH, what rule would such actions violate? His only problem is that he missed it by inches or a few feet at most.....

Personally I do not think he deliberately passed the SC when not permittted to do so, but I think the possiblity exists he might have misjudged it slightly in an attempt to block FA into being behind the SC.....or perhaps I give him too much credit for crafty and quick thinking, and he just might have slowed and then misjudged, without ever thinking about FA one way or the other

only one who really knows is probably LH, and I would not trust whatever he says.....

[Dave B]

I agree with Arrows, the FIA were tardy to act on this one.

Lewis was either ignorant of the rules, or knew exactly what he was doing and calculated that he'd take an advantage. Either way, it could have been nipped in the bud had he simply been instructed to drop back behind the SC.

Alonso may feel stitched up, but ranting about "manipulated races" is petulant and childish.

[AndyL]

From the on-board it didn't seem possible to tell whether the McLaren or the safety car passed the second safety car line first: by the time Hamilton reached the line the safety car was out of view to the side. I don't think Lewis himself would have had any better view of it with the high cockpit sides.

I think the reason Lewis hesitated was that he had to think for a moment to work out whether he was allowed to pass the safety car. Once he realised that he could as long as he passed the safety car line first, he accelerated again, so I think he knew the rules perfectly well. What he wouldn't have known was where the safety car was in relation to him as he crossed the line. I guess he believed he had got there first. If he hadn't hesitated he might have done so and been OK.

[Tazio]

I agree with Arrows, the FIA were tardy to act on this one.

Lewis was either ignorant of the rules, or knew exactly what he was doing and calculated that he'd take an advantage. Either way, it could have been nipped in the bud had he simply been instructed to drop back behind the SC.

Alonso may feel stitched up, but ranting about "manipulated races" is petulant and childish.Let's not lose sight of why this whole safety car fiasco changed Fred’s Valencia fortunes, and really pissed him off. One of the fastest and one of the slowest cars on the grid had a coming together in perfect racing conditions,
on the longest straight in the race causing one of the ugliest collisions I've seen in a very long time.
Fred venting:
People say some of the stupidest things they're capable of when they pass a certain threshold of frustration.
The result is in, so what?

[truefan72]

I do not see why the FIA officials cannot act more quickly to resolve these kind of things as they happen.

When Hamilton passed the SC he should have immediately been instructed by officials to drop back behind the SC. Instead, they sit on their hands then issue a drive through penalty which had minimal effect. I don't think Hamilton was seeking an advantage. He simply did not know the rules and for that he deserved a penalty.

The FIA officials have TV monitors showing them the whole circuit. They have software which shows them the position of every car at all times. They control the SC and can communicate with it, and the teams, at all times. How difficult is it for them to act quickly and decisively?

This shows, again, that the FIA have a lot more to do when it comes to the officiating of races before those making these decisions earn the respect of the fans and competitors.

When I was watching the race live my first reaction was that Alonso was just moaning again, but he was spot on and I can understand why he & Ferrari feel aggrieved. Things fell in a way which messed up their race big time. None of it was intentional, but in the end the combination of events hurt Ferrari more than most.

the problem is one of confusion and slow handling of the issuance of the penalty. But what Ferrari and Alonso are saying and reacting is beyond ridiculous. This from a team that has benefited most from dubious calls in the past and a driver who won a race because his teammate crashed unpurpose to help him. I do not recall alonso bitching and moaning or even calling that race a scandal or even admitting that the it was fixed, etc. In that same race Rosberg was called in for a drive thru penalty and effectively raced for many laps before coming in and serving his penalty and hugely benefiting from the rules in place. I did not here Fernando call it a scandal or saying the race was manipulated, the difference is that Fernando won and was the benefactor of all these decisions to the detriment of the rest of the field. It is called hypocrisy combined with stupidity in my book.

My problem is that Fernando and Ferrari have very short memories and complain like sissy girls when decisions don't go their way. If Fernado had done what Hamilton did, you would never hear a word about it, or you might hear them vehemently argue the opposite about how the FIa ruined their race etc. Fernando and Ferrari simply have no class and are sore losers.

It was not the stewards that made fernado sit behind buemi for half a race languishing down the order. and then getting schooled by the customer team sauber.

[truefan72]

Actually after looking at a video last night before f1 managment blocked it, it appears that LH saw the SC and slowed down dramatically and so FA was forced to slow as well..... It appeared that LH was going to slot in behind the SC, but then gives it a bit of gas as to pass it before before the SC safety line, and misjudges by only a few feet or perhaps .002 of a second....

Now if one had all the necessary data and radio transmissions, one could use it to make an argument that LH thought, if I time it just right, I can hang up FA behind the SC, but I can pass without penalty and gain the advantage.

Is that what he was really thinking and doing???? I have no idea. As to what LH says, he demonstarted himself to be such a liar, threw Davey Ryan and RD under the bus with the Trulli incident, one can not beleive him....

What is clear, if both LH and FA had not slowed, both would have made it past the SC before the white line was crossed by the SC.

If LH was so brilliant to come out with such a plan, I say, BRILLIANT....and would explain why FA is so PO...OTOH, what rule would such actions violate? His only problem is that he missed it by inches or a few feet at most.....

Personally I do not think he deliberately passed the SC when not permittted to do so, but I think the possiblity exists he might have misjudged it slightly in an attempt to block FA into being behind the SC.....or perhaps I give him too much credit for crafty and quick thinking, and he just might have slowed and then misjudged, without ever thinking about FA one way or the other

only one who really knows is probably LH, and I would not trust whatever he says.....

excellent post
as you say if Hamilton really knew what he was doing it would be diabolical, schumacheresque, but I think that he was unsure of the rules and Alonso just got caught out. Yeah it took a while for the ruling to come down and the penalty to be issued but it was so close that I am sure it was debated by the stewards. It is not like the 3 of them automatically said, "penalty!,but lets wait 10 laps", especially when they were probably reviewing the speed infractions of the other 9 drivers first since that occurred before Hamilton's mishap. so they probably worked on that then Hamilton's and since they were unsure( i don't know why) about the severity of the penalty for those 9, they managed to rule/issue the penalty on Hamilton's first. Mostly due to Ferrari's moaning and complaining.

i would have loved to see all those other guys come in and serve their drive thru penalty. It would have made for a spectacular few laps. Please no more rulings after the race

[Big Ben]

excellent post
as you say if Hamilton really knew what he was doing it would be diabolical, schumacheresque, but I think that he was unsure of the rules and Alonso just got caught out. Yeah it took a while for the ruling to come down and the penalty to be issued but it was so close that I am sure it was debated by the stewards. It is not like the 3 of them automatically said, "penalty!,but lets wait 10 laps", especially when they were probably reviewing the speed infractions of the other 9 drivers first since that occurred before Hamilton's mishap. so they probably worked on that then Hamilton's and since they were unsure( i don't know why) about the severity of the penalty for those 9, they managed to rule/issue the penalty on Hamilton's first. Mostly due to Ferrari's moaning and complaining.

i would have loved to see all those other guys come in and serve their drive thru penalty. It would have made for a spectacular few laps. Please no more rulings after the race

Hamilton's behavior on and off track is most certainly nothing but pure class truefanboy

[truefan72]

Hamilton's behavior on and off track is most certainly nothing but pure class truefanboy

spoken like a hater

can't even take the time to reference the right post. Which makes that comment baffling to most people and clearly indicates a lack of understanding the context of things.

lol

[Triumph]

Fernando wasn't complaining that his race was ruined, rather he was complaining that Lewis' race wasn't ruined. It appears to be a case of sour grapes.

It just so happens that Lewis was (relatively) lucky that he was in a position to get past the safety car. It could have been anyone, but it just happened to be Lewis, which Fernando would find particularly annoying.

If Lewis didn't hesitate for that moment he probably would have got over the second safety car line before the safety car and would have avoided the drive-through penalty.

I'm glad Lewis didn't lose any places during his drive-through. It was his lucky day, which balances out his unlucky day at Catalunya where he lost 18 points due to that wheel failure. As he said at the time, that's motor racing. Fernando should say the same thing about his bit of bad luck with the safety car. That's motor racing!

[Big Ben]

spoken like a hater

can't even take the time to reference the right post. Which makes that comment baffling to most people and clearly indicates a lack of understanding the context of things.

lol

it does? how?

it´s really not that hard to understand. It´s nothing but the usual rant of a really biased man who´s blinded by his love for one side and hate for the other. Do you know how I know...? It´s always the same thing: McLaren and Hammy are great, Alonso and Ferrari are awful... on and on... I´m sorry I have to break the news to you but it ain´t that simple boy. How about you put yourself a bit in their shoes. They have this major update one race before their rivals and it happens something like this... I advice you go read Arrows´ post. It might enlighten you a bit and you´ll slow down with this fotball fan style speeches. I think it´s quite clear it´s you who didn´t understand the context. I can see from what you wrote that you hadn´t stop for a second to think: what if things were the other way around? would I have said the same thing? I bet you would have understood the frustration of seeing the work of so many people thrown down the drain by people unwilling or unable to their job properly.

[truefan72]

it does? how?

it´s really not that hard to understand. It´s nothing but the usual rant of a really biased man who´s blinded by his love for one side and hate for the other. Do you know how I know...? It´s always the same thing: McLaren and Hammy are great, Alonso and Ferrari are awful... on and on... I´m sorry I have to break the news to you but it ain´t that simple boy. How about you put yourself a bit in their shoes. They have this major update one race before their rivals and it happens something like this... I advice you go read Arrows´ post. It might enlighten you a bit and you´ll slow down with this fotball fan style speeches. I think it´s quite clear it´s you who didn´t understand the context. I can see from what you wrote that you hadn´t stop for a second to think: what if things were the other way around? would I have said the same thing? I bet you would have understood the frustration of seeing the work of so many people thrown down the drain by people unwilling or unable to their job properly.
what a load of nonsense

did yo even read the post you referenced to in your first attack on me?
probably not, you just saw my name, took what you wanted from the previous post and went about your business of defending Alonso. I suggest you read the posts first before lambasting people and figure out what they are actually saying before going into a pointless exercise of calling out members and finding avenues to vent your frustrations.

Either way, the race is over and so is this matter as far as I am concerned. You can continue ranting if you want. But I'm moving on.

Cheers

[donKey jote]

Actually after looking at a video last night before f1 managment blocked it, it appears that LH saw the SC and slowed down dramatically and so FA was forced to slow as well..... It appeared that LH was going to slot in behind the SC, but then gives it a bit of gas as to pass it before before the SC safety line, and misjudges by only a few feet or perhaps .002 of a second....

Now if one had all the necessary data and radio transmissions, one could use it to make an argument that LH thought, if I time it just right, I can hang up FA behind the SC, but I can pass without penalty and gain the advantage.

Is that what he was really thinking and doing???? I have no idea. As to what LH says, he demonstarted himself to be such a liar, threw Davey Ryan and RD under the bus with the Trulli incident, one can not beleive him....

What is clear, if both LH and FA had not slowed, both would have made it past the SC before the white line was crossed by the SC.

If LH was so brilliant to come out with such a plan, I say, BRILLIANT....and would explain why FA is so PO...OTOH, what rule would such actions violate? His only problem is that he missed it by inches or a few feet at most.....

Personally I do not think he deliberately passed the SC when not permittted to do so, but I think the possiblity exists he might have misjudged it slightly in an attempt to block FA into being behind the SC.....or perhaps I give him too much credit for crafty and quick thinking, and he just might have slowed and then misjudged, without ever thinking about FA one way or the other

only one who really knows is probably LH, and I would not trust whatever he says.....

yep, as we mentioned in the Whiting thread, this is what the German press saw... Ham slowing just enough to put the SC between him and Alonso.
I say :up: to Ham for being so crafty.
Heck if donkey drivers can pull such stunts now and again in normal traffic I´m pretty sure a top F1 driver can do it too. Alonso should learn the first lesson in road rage: don´t moan if you´re on the losing end - it only gives the other guy (and his fanboys in this case) double glee :D

[Jag_Warrior]

That's because Alonso played and followed the rules. He did not ram into him, cut him off, slam into him you know all the dirty tricks we all have seen LH playing at the expense of those who do follow the rules. But as Alonso said today, nowadays only if you cheat you get rewarded. Following the rules is just for suckers, right?

Yes, povero Fernandito: perpetual victim of circumstance. The whole world is out to get him, I tell ya!!! :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

i seen Flavio Briatore on the startgrid before the race ?

Yes, and by his companion, it looked like he'd stopped by the local girl's boarding school before he got to the race.

Flavor Flav gives hope to all sweaty old men around the globe: make enough money and you too can pull a 10.

[BDunnell]

Unlucky when somenthing anexpected happens, not when FIA takes a wrong decision that penalizes a driver/Team. So insted of criticises Alonso people in here should criticise FIA...

Do you not think it's worth being critical of his constant wittering on at his team during the race? Drivers used to manage without having to have these conversations, after all. And what was the 'wrong decision' the FIA took? They took exactly the right decision — i.e. the one within their rules. They took it too slowly, yes, but there was nothing actually wrong with what they did.

Anyway, I see di Montezemelo has waded in with a typically absurd and pompous set of remarks — http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8769619.stm — which, while dealing comprehensively with the perceived injustice of Hamilton's penalty, completely ignore the fact of Alonso having driven a pretty awful race during which he was passed for position by a Japanese rookie in a hitherto uncompetitive BMW Sauber powered by a Ferrari customer engine.

Let's imagine a scenario, involving, for argument's sake, Hamilton. Hamilton for some reason has a 50-second lead, but incurs a drive-through penalty. This loses him the equivalent of 25 seconds, and thus has no effect on his position. Is this wrong? So long as the penalty is the correct one, no.

[ioan]

Ioan with his blind love for Schumi now vents his frustation around here...

Sorry mate, not everyone thinks and acts like you! :p

[ioan]

Anyway, I see di Montezemelo has waded in with a typically absurd and pompous set of remarks — http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8769619.stm — which, while dealing comprehensively with the perceived injustice of Hamilton's penalty, completely ignore the fact of Alonso having driven a pretty awful race during which he was passed for position by a Japanese rookie in a hitherto uncompetitive BMW Sauber powered by a Ferrari customer engine.

Yep, LdM never fails to deliver! :D
You can bet money on him running his mouth when the smallest thing goes against Ferrari.
I am happy he wasn't so much up front when Todt, Brawn and MS were at Ferrari.

[slinkster]

Even his own team were more or less telling him to quit whining and get on with racing.

Put a sock in it Alonso.

[Retro Formula 1]

I find it amazing that people think Lewis is so calculating that he can come up with a superb strategy to screw Fred but Fred is such a dotard that he didn't realise he could go past Lewis when the Brit braked before the SC line :laugh:

I should imagine the train of thought inside the McLaren was:

"Bugger, it's a SC, brake, oh wait - the line. I can go past if I boot it. Banzai!!!" all in the course of a second.

The big idiots are the FIA who don't introduce speed limiters that automatically engage during a SC period.

[Big Ben]

what a load of nonsense

did yo even read the post you referenced to in your first attack on me?
probably not, you just saw my name, took what you wanted from the previous post and went about your business of defending Alonso. I suggest you read the posts first before lambasting people and figure out what they are actually saying before going into a pointless exercise of calling out members and finding avenues to vent your frustrations.

Either way, the race is over and so is this matter as far as I am concerned. You can continue ranting if you want. But I'm moving on.

Cheers

You keep bringing up I´ve quoted the wrong post why? I should have quoted both because they are both pretty much the same thing. And I understand what you are saying. Here it is: post nº 1 is about bashing Alonso and Ferrari. You do it in a very mature way: bringing up things from the past that are irrelevant in this race and which involves other people than those we are discussing here, name calling and commenting the events of the race in way that either proves a lack of understanding of the context or you just fake it.

post nº 2 is about justifying the poor handling of the incidents by the stewards... and that´s because the poor handling was in the benefit of your boy. and then you say "Mostly due to Ferrari's moaning and complaining"--- wtf does that even suppose to mean? what are you saying?

and now you come and say it´s all nonsense, fake some dignity and pretend you are leaving because you are a superior being and not because you don´t really have anything reasonable to say.

[grantb4]

I don't have any negative comments about the stewards or Hamilton, but why did the safety car come out *after* the leader? If there wasn't enough time to lead Vettel into turn 1, then maybe they should have thrown a full course yellow, but not released the safety car until next time by. Coming in to the middle of the field is guaranteed to screw somebody and with all the GPS technology they have, they shouldn't screw anyone.

[Saint Devote]

Not surprised...its Alonso who has no class and is this biggest cheat and liar on the grid

I wonder if your above message will get you banned - because I "dissed" Hamilton and was banned?

[Saint Devote]

The British media are claiming how "correct" the FIA formerly known as Ferrari International Assistance were in this case since their little angel benefitted.

I do remember how indignant and self-righteous they were when a certain driver from Kerpen would benefit.

But never fear - motor racing is a great leveller and justice will be achieved: Maybe there will be no British driver near the podium at Silverstone.

Instead the places will be filled with Germans a Spaniard and Brazilians. Sort of like the soccer really these days.

[Saint Devote]

Hamilton's behavior on ........ track is most certainly nothing but pure class

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Dont joke like that, I have to breathe!!!!!

[mstillhere]

pacecar shuffe happens.

other series are suspected to throw "fake yellows" just for show you know!

so what, be clever and try to gain, instead of whine if you lose.
Was that beer bottle coming from Fernandos car? Maybe to provoke another debris caution?

Ferrari had a lot of suger up the pipes on McLarens (and LHs) expense so they better be quiet about riding the edge of rules.

And Fernando is the very last person who should call manipulated.

Passing the SC is what you call " THE EDGEOF THE RULES"?? That's plain disregrad of the rules. No fine prints there, buddy.

[mstillhere]

my opinion is that any of you would have been frustrated in Alonso´s shoes yesterday... and I'm pretty sure almost anyone would have said the exact opposite if their favorite driver had been in that situation... I understand people have preferences... I have my one.... but shouldn´t we at least attempt a little objectivity? I was thinking last night what I was going to find here today... and guess what? 100% accuracy ... if only weather forecasts would be half this reliable

Secon that

[mstillhere]

Unlucky rather than unfair. As mentioned Valencia has a very short pit entry/exit so Hamilton got lucky it was at this track. But he was punished, 100% by the rules as laid out. I don't like it but it is what it is. Next time someone else may get a break.

I'd say the 5 seconds penalties handed out after the race to the speeding cars is far more controversial and more a case of making up rules on the fly.

1. LH did not get lucky at all. He (McLAren?) willingfully made the decision to pass the SC. Alonso could have done the same. It's not a matter of luck there at all.

2. How do you consider the penalty given to LH a fair punishment? In what way did he suffer consequences for his doing? (that's wht I would consider a punishment)

[mstillhere]

I agree with Arrows, the FIA were tardy to act on this one.

Lewis was either ignorant of the rules, or knew exactly what he was doing and calculated that he'd take an advantage. Either way, it could have been nipped in the bud had he simply been instructed to drop back behind the SC.

Alonso may feel stitched up, but ranting about "manipulated races" is petulant and childish.

What bothers me is "where was McLAren in all this? They saw everything. They could have told LH to let the SC go back in front of him or just to pass the. Does anyone has any info about this?

[mstillhere]

the problem is one of confusion and slow handling of the issuance of the penalty. But what Ferrari and Alonso are saying and reacting is beyond ridiculous. This from a team that has benefited most from dubious calls in the past and a driver who won a race because his teammate crashed unpurpose to help him. I do not recall alonso bitching and moaning or even calling that race a scandal or even admitting that the it was fixed, etc. In that same race Rosberg was called in for a drive thru penalty and effectively raced for many laps before coming in and serving his penalty and hugely benefiting from the rules in place. I did not here Fernando call it a scandal or saying the race was manipulated, the difference is that Fernando won and was the benefactor of all these decisions to the detriment of the rest of the field. It is called hypocrisy combined with stupidity in my book.

My problem is that Fernando and Ferrari have very short memories and complain like sissy girls when decisions don't go their way. If Fernado had done what Hamilton did, you would never hear a word about it, or you might hear them vehemently argue the opposite about how the FIa ruined their race etc. Fernando and Ferrari simply have no class and are sore losers.

It was not the stewards that made fernado sit behind buemi for half a race languishing down the order. and then getting schooled by the customer team sauber.

I am not sure why looking back in the past is supposed to give us a clear idea of the fairness of what happened on Sunday. Opening that door opens up a huge can of worms here. And I donpt think this is the right thread for this kind of topic.
As far as class, McALaren and Co. are concerned they have a great deal to learn from Ferrari. So far it has been LH and McLAren being reprimended at almost every single race. That's classy all right

[mstillhere]

what a load of nonsense

did yo even read the post you referenced to in your first attack on me?
probably not, you just saw my name, took what you wanted from the previous post and went about your business of defending Alonso. I suggest you read the posts first before lambasting people and figure out what they are actually saying before going into a pointless exercise of calling out members and finding avenues to vent your frustrations.

Either way, the race is over and so is this matter as far as I am concerned. You can continue ranting if you want. But I'm moving on.

Cheers

Since what goes around comes around is true, I hope when LH is going to the be the victim of something like that you are going to be man enough to remember what you wrote in here and able to move on as fast as you are in here.

[mstillhere]

Yes, povero Fernandito: perpetual victim of circumstance. The whole world is out to get him, I tell ya!!! :rolleyes:

Existing rules should be ignored. That's your point?

[mstillhere]

I find it amazing that people think Lewis is so calculating that he can come up with a superb strategy to screw Fred but Fred is such a dotard that he didn't realise he could go past Lewis when the Brit braked before the SC line :laugh:

I should imagine the train of thought inside the McLaren was:

"Bugger, it's a SC, brake, oh wait - the line. I can go past if I boot it. Banzai!!!" all in the course of a second.

The big idiots are the FIA who don't introduce speed limiters that automatically engage during a SC period.

See your guy has a history of lying. When he says "I did not see the SC" or " I did not know you aree not supposed to pass the SC" all this stuff sounds pretty amateurish. What did he say when he illegally passed Trulli last year? Exactly the same thing: I did not know anything. As it turns out he knew. Yes he did.
Of course his supporters would say: So what? He got punished. Move on.

[mstillhere]

I don't have any negative comments about the stewards or Hamilton, but why did the safety car come out *after* the leader? If there wasn't enough time to lead Vettel into turn 1, then maybe they should have thrown a full course yellow, but not released the safety car until next time by. Coming in to the middle of the field is guaranteed to screw somebody and with all the GPS technology they have, they shouldn't screw anyone.

GREAT POINT

[mstillhere]

Sorry about all this series of posts. It only due to the fact that I got home just know and I guess nobody else is around....?

[ArrowsFA1]

...why did the safety car come out *after* the leader?...Coming in to the middle of the field is guaranteed to screw somebody and with all the GPS technology they have, they shouldn't screw anyone.
Good point :up:

Given all the technology available is there actually any need for a safety car to be on track? The cars have a pitlane speed limiter, so why could they not have a SC speed limiter which drivers have to engage the moment SC conditions are declared by race control. That way, the field would effectly be 'frozen' in position with no driver gaining any advantage over another.

[wmcot]

I never understood why the FIA decided to change the rules. There's no refuelling this year, so just shut the pitlane the second the SC is deployed, wait for everyone to form up and then reopen it. No one needs to pit unless they've got an obvious puncture or whatever. Would certainly avoid them faffing about with these "deltas" and whatever.

Stop it! You're making sense! It's not allowed in F1 that rules should be simple and understandable. Each rule must be several paragraphs and sub-paragraphs long and the penalties for breaking them should always be totally random...

[Dave B]

Since what goes around comes around is true....
If what goes around comes around, then maybe Alonso should consider this karma for winning a truly manipulated race when his team mate was ordered to crash into the wall.

People who live in glass houses...

[Jag_Warrior]

Existing rules should be ignored. That's your point?

Uh... yeah. :rolleyes: I tell ya, not much gets by you, does it?

[Jag_Warrior]

If what goes around comes around, then maybe Alonso should consider this karma for winning a truly manipulated race when his team mate was ordered to crash into the wall.

People who live in glass houses...

Ouch! That's gonna leave a bruise. :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

It wasn't so long ago that people here were whinging about flippant decisions being handed out by the stewards, and in this case it seems they did their job within the constraints.
Fair point. I certainly want the stewards to make the right decision, not the quickest one.

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Can anyone remember any other instance of a penalty being taken but having no effect on the race result? It was a Ferrari at Silverstone. Just to dispel any talk of prcedents in that respect.

[I am evil Homer]

1. LH did not get lucky at all. He (McLAren?) willingfully made the decision to pass the SC. Alonso could have done the same. It's not a matter of luck there at all.

2. How do you consider the penalty given to LH a fair punishment? In what way did he suffer consequences for his doing? (that's wht I would consider a punishment)

1. Watch the replay and listen to the throttle and hesitation - there was no way in hell that was planned. Also Hamilton isn't in control of the asshat who hits the released SC button.

Alosno didn't - his problem not Hamiltons. But to go around talking about Maniuplation? Alonso? Ferrari too? People in glass houses...

2. He was given the right penalty and he took it. The fact he maintained second doesn't make the penalty unfair or mean he went unpunsihed. He was punished but got lucky because Valencia has a short entry/exit.

You can't punish people on the basis of 'fairness' only what is in the rulebook. What would have been fairer? holding him until he came out in 8th just ahead of Alonso. That would open a whole new can of worms.

[I am evil Homer]

Fair point. I certainly want the stewards to make the right decision, not the quickest one.

Which in this case they did. The fact Ferrari and Alonso fans are annoyed isn't the FIAs problem.

Or maybe it's emabrassment seeing "Mr six-tenths" being overtaken by a might STR and Sauber.

[markabilly]

It seems the decision was thoroughly checked through by the stewards and the GPS is not as accurate (within a few feet) as people like to believe. The delay was due to a lengthy investigation where the FIA needed to contact broadcasters to obtain evidence.


It wasn't so long ago that people here were whinging about flippant decisions being handed out by the stewards, and in this case it seems they did their job within the constraints. Lewis was very lucky under the circumstances and Ferrari were not. I did find it amusing that in the article it mentions the Ferrari team cheering the controversial disallowance of the England goal. Adds a little irony to the whole incident.. :)


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22390.html
When the SC is coming on the track, the rule should be that cars should slow to permit the SC to get in front.

it should not have come down to inches, as it was more than close enough at the moment it occurred, even if it later turned out he beat the car to the line, and LH should have been told to slow and get behind the SC immediately


No need to get out microscopes and do a slow motion....indeed, if they wanted to be absoultely certain, they should carefully examine in in-car data, and the radio traffic, and all sorts of stuff. As stated in the article, the transponders immediately showed they crossed at the same time, so that should have been enough, but oh no, the transponder in the SC is in the back and not the front????.

Why should that not matter???

The whole idea of the Safety car is safety, not gaining race advantages on technicalities and so forth......Flavio is NOT the example to be followed.

And a penalty should be a penalty that results in a real loss, that at a minimum, puts the situation back to a point that it would be if the rule had not been transgressed-in other words, the advantage gained is taken away.

it should not be some meaningless gesture which turns the whole thing into a joke


(another example is the $10k penalty for running out of gas to get pole is a joke--as every team on the grid would probably pay an extra 50k or more if it got them a pole, another is the 5 second penalty in this race and so on).


:vader:

[pino]

Which in this case they did. The fact Ferrari and Alonso fans are annoyed isn't the FIAs problem.



A decision is right when taken at the right time...it didn't happen at Valencia, that's why Alonso and Ferrari are annoyed.

[Triumph]

It appears that convicted criminal and disgraced cheat Fraudio Briatore is back on the scene:

http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/06/29/hamilton-needed-black-flag-for-valencia-foul-briatore/

Maybe they should ask him how he would have manipulated it.

:p

[ArrowsFA1]

A decision is right when taken at the right time...it didn't happen at Valencia, that's why Alonso and Ferrari are annoyed.
Alonso might have seen Hamilton pass the safety car, but the FIA can't just say "we'll take Ferrari's word for it" and penalise him on that basis.

They had to check timing data, and video footage, and that took time. I understand Ferrari's frustration, and I hope the whole process is looked at and improved, but they caught a bad break this time. Next time they may be the ones benefitting.

[pino]

They had to check timing data, and video footage, and that took time...



7 laps to watch a video-footage is a bit too long don't you think ? ;)

[I am evil Homer]

10 minutes to check 2 data sets and a video seems within reason to me. Certainly better than making up a new penalty as we had with all the 5 seconds added for other violations.

[christophulus]

One serving of humble pie coming up: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896


"At the time, I reacted emotionally and in that situation, it is all too easy to adopt a tone and say things that can be interpreted wrongly, giving rise to suspicions, something which I had no intention of doing.


“Sure, I understand that the stewards have a difficult job to do and they have to take decisions that are not easy. What I meant was that those drivers who, like us, respected the regulations, unfortunately, in this situation, suffered much more than those who broke them, even though they were given a penalty.


“And I am not referring to any of the drivers in particular: it’s a general matter and I think we should talk about it together in a calm way, to ensure that things like this do not happen again."

[pino]

Not when they had already viewed the broadcasted footage and then had to contact the broadcaster to obtain aerial footage which hadn't been used on TV. This couldn't just have been sent via email.. ;)

Lets not forget this was a close call which couldn't be settled via GPS data alone and needed to be investigated. :)

Ok I give up :( :p :

[Jag_Warrior]

One serving of humble pie coming up: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896


Too chicken to stand behind his words, eh?

[Tazio]

Too chicken to stand behind his words, eh?I made my comment that Fred was out of line with his comments
after the race! Mainly because of the level of childish adolesant immature
diarea be ing spweud on this topic!


One serving of humble pie coming up: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896

This is why I believe Ferrari are so upset at the events that occured on sunday:

I think the real source of frustration is something Ferrari doesn’t want to elaborate on.
7 laps into the race Fred, and Massa baby were running nose to tail Massa being the one behind. Under normal racing situations and without carrying full fuel loads you would think Massa was being held up. I think this was a very well planned strategy I always follow live timing. Alonso and Massa were hanging about 2 sec.s behind "The Boss" (who himself was trying to conserve his tyres)
Ferrari were using team orders (allowing Fred to detirmine the pace of the two Ferraris. If Massa had out qualified Fred then he would have been the one controlling Ferraris pace)at lap 8 the Ferraris started to slowly reel The Boss in. The safety car came out and really blew that strategy to hell. We will never know, and it's mute anyway. I just think Ferrari were prepared very well in race trim. Then having to fight through the field wasted their tyres, an asset they may have had over the field! JMHO

[Tazio]

Too chicken to stand behind his words, eh?I made my comment that Fred was out of line with his comments
After the race! Mainly because of the level of childish adolescent immature
diarrhea being spewed on this topic!



One serving of humble pie coming up: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896

This is why I believe Ferrari are so upset at the events that occured on sunday:

I think the real source of frustration is something Ferrari doesn’t want to elaborate on.
7 laps into the race Fred, and Massa baby were running nose to tail Massa being the one behind. Under normal racing situations and without carrying full fuel loads you would think Massa was being held up. I think this was a very well planned strategy I always follow live timing. Alonso and Massa were hanging about 2 sec.s behind "The Boss" (who himself was trying to conserve his tyres)
Ferrari were using team orders (allowing Fred to detirmine the pace of the two Ferraris. If Massa had out qualified Fred then he would have been the one controlling Ferraris pace)at lap 8 the Ferraris started to slowly reel The Boss in. The safety car came out and really blew that strategy to hell. We will never know, and it's mute anyway. I just think Ferrari were prepared very well in race trim. Then having to fight through the field wasted their tyres, an asset they may have had over the field! JMHO

[Big Ben]

10 minutes to check 2 data sets and a video seems within reason to me. Certainly better than making up a new penalty as we had with all the 5 seconds added for other violations.

So they can make 7 laps in 10 minutes with the SC car on track? there must be something really wrong with those cars if they go faster behind the safety car.

[mstillhere]

If what goes around comes around, then maybe Alonso should consider this karma for winning a truly manipulated race when his team mate was ordered to crash into the wall.

People who live in glass houses...

Link please to prove me wrong and to support your point showing Alonso had anything to do with it. Thanks.

[mstillhere]

Fair point. I certainly want the stewards to make the right decision, not the quickest one.

So far in crucila circumstances I have not seen a fast nor a right decition. I have only seen stupid and pointless decitions. (i.e. SC in Monaco)
Actually only one just came to mind: Alonso's jump start. I have to say that was fast and accurate decition. Absolutely.

[mstillhere]

Or maybe it's emabrassment seeing "Mr six-tenths" being overtaken by a might STR and Sauber.

FYI If you were to do your homework you would know that the Sauber had brand new tires on while Alonso was riding on old ones.

[mstillhere]

So they can make 7 laps in 10 minutes with the SC car on track? there must be something really wrong with those cars if they go faster behind the safety car.

:) )))))

[Tazio]

FYI If you were to do your homework you would know that the Sauber had brand new tires on while Alonso was riding on old ones.
Don't try to apply logic here, Pique, Karma, payback, who actually gives a $hi+ at this point. To argue that the rules are jacked? They are! Did The Boss get away with murder? And was it a just punishment? It's over. Once they were allowed to race in the formation that they did Ferrari had no say in the outcome. Bunsen was probably one of the greatest beneficiaries. He didn't cheat or pass a Ferrari under race conditions the second half of the season starts in Silverstone. Does anybody really believe that Ferrari is done working on upgrades? Let it go!!!!! Immature Brits will always have something negative to say about Fred. That's why I prefer to pull for him. That and he drives a red car.
I'm out of here chief!

[e2mtt]

There is a huge reason why Ferrari would be so upset... the timing on the safety car was terrible.

I know Button & everyone behind him was able to dive into pits the moment that they realized the SC was coming out... that's always been a part of F1 safety car tactics, & I don't mind it. (vs. the USA way of closing the pits immediately when the yellow/SC comes out)

However, the fact the the actual SC was so slow in getting on the field that Vettel & Hamilton were able pass it, speed ahead, & pit in a deserted pit lane while places 3rd on back were held in queue is totally inept.

One scenario that Ferrari's tacticians completely missed... they could have left a car out! The soft tires would cool under caution, and probably be good for a few more good laps running with the leaders in 3rd. (1st if only the SC had been correctly deployed)

The red light hold on Michael Shumacher is also ridiculous - does the FIA really think it is more dangerous to exit pitlane under caution then it is at full race speed?

[truefan72]

Bunsen was probably one of the greatest beneficiaries. He didn't cheat or pass a Ferrari under race conditions

err, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't JB get a penalty for a safety car violation, or do you only equate someone doing something wrong when it somehow involves a Ferrari lol

[truefan72]

The red light hold on Michael Shumacher is also ridiculous - does the FIA really think it is more dangerous to exit pitlane under caution then it is at full race speed?

I agree, although the reasons for that red light hold are applied universally in SC periods. Instead, they need to apply some common sense and logic in such situations and understand when the red light being on is a good measure, and when allowing a green light makes more sense and won't completely screw a drivers entire race.

Sadly though, Mercedes should have left MSc out. he was scheduled to go long on his tyres, and those safety car laps only made is stint even longer, he also managed to leap up to 3rd which would have worked out fine for him like it did Kobayashi. It was a terrible mistake by the team.

[Tazio]

err, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't JB get a penalty for a safety car violation, or do you only equate someone doing something wrong when it somehow involves a Ferrari lolDid he?
I stand corrected if he did. I am relatively sure that Ferrari did not get any penalties, but their were so many I could be wrong ;)
I think the rest of that post is correct. Or did I miss him passing a Ferrari on the track? :p :

Don't try to apply logic here, Pique, Karma, payback, convicted criminal,
who actually gives a $hi+ at this point. To argue that the rules are jacked? They are! Did The Boss get away with murder? And was it a just punishment? It's over. Once they were allowed to race in the formation that they did Ferrari had no say in the outcome. Bunsen was probably one of the greatest beneficiaries. He didn't cheat or pass a Ferrari under race conditions the second half of the season starts in Silverstone. Does anybody really believe that Ferrari is done working on upgrades? Let it go!!!!! Immature Brits will always have something negative to say about Fred. That's why I prefer to pull for him. That and he drives a red car.
I'm out of here chief!Any other objections? Or are you just feeling anally retentive tonight? :) Just kidding Lets not det too serious over this game!

[Tazio]

err, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't JB get a penalty for a safety car violation, or do you only equate someone doing something wrong when it somehow involves a Ferrari lolIf you read my post I said he did not cheat. And I still don't think that the group of 5 seconder's did either. I think that this is a good race to forget yet always remember! :confused: :s mokin:

[Big Ben]

And now Hamilton's singing praises to the FIA. There is someone satisfied with the way things were handled and he has no problem saying that.... ok.. more of it please. No suprise however... the guy is a known moron

[Dave B]

Link please to prove me wrong and to support your point showing Alonso had anything to do with it. Thanks.
Fairly obviously there's no evidence in the public domain that Alonso knew the race in Singapore was manipulated - and in fact I never claimed in my post that he did know. If it were ever proven it would finish his career. But there are plenty in the paddock who strongly suspect that he must have had some knowledge that there was a plan afoot. My point was that the race had been manipulated, there's no denying that. Anyway, it's been debated to death here and elsewhere - feel free to search for the thread if you want further reading.


FYI If you were to do your homework you would know that the Sauber had brand new tires on while Alonso was riding on old ones.
Indeed. Kobyashi was on a better strategy than either Ferrari and - embarrassingly for Alonso - made that work to his advantage. It was simply wonderful to watch, and one can only speculate just how pee'd off he must have been at that moment :D

[ArrowsFA1]

One serving of humble pie coming up: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896
Fair play to Alonso :up:

So far in crucila circumstances I have not seen a fast nor a right decition. I have only seen stupid and pointless decitions. (i.e. SC in Monaco)
Actually only one just came to mind: Alonso's jump start. I have to say that was fast and accurate decition. Absolutely.
The reason it was a fast and accurate decision was because it was a clear and obvious jump start. Not all incidents are as clear as that one. However, as Alonso has said, the FIA are holding a meeting before the British GP to look at the issues and hopefully that will result in some improvements.

[Tazio]

Fair play to Alonso :up:

The reason it was a fast and accurate decision was because it was a clear and obvious jump start. Not all incidents are as clear as that one. However, as Alonso has said, the FIA are holding a meeting before the British GP to look at the issues and hopefully that will result in some improvements.


`And fair play to you for your objectivity

[Tazio]

Indeed. Kobyashi was on a better strategy than either Ferrari and - embarrassingly for Alonso - made that work to his advantage. It was simply wonderful to watch, and one can only speculate just how pee'd off he must have been at that moment :D Ferrari had to change their strategy after the SC debacle without the safety car Koby is nowhere. That is an immature Brit talking $hi+ :down:

[Mark]

Less of the swearing please, just because you've replaced a couple of the characters, it doesn't mean it's ok!

[truefan72]

If you read my post I said he did not cheat. And I still don't think that the group of 5 seconder's did either. I think that this is a good race to forget yet always remember! :confused: :s mokin:

well, technically he did cheat as he was penalized,
but I sorta get what you are saying ;)

[mstillhere]

.
This whole process does need looking at and theres plenty of room for improvement IMO. :)

I'll drink to that :)

[mstillhere]

I think what Dave is pointing out is that Hamilton was fortunate in this race and how the events turned out. Alonso also benefited from events out of his control in 2008. Its been pointed out in this thread that Lewis has a history of lying and you can't believe anything he says, and the same can be said about Alonso. He has a history of being involved in cheating scandals and whether he knew on that ocassion or not I don't really care. You can't use the tactic of bringing up one drivers past to support your claim and then dismiss a similar claim which supports the opposite view as its far too contradictory.

Lets just put this down to a driver ranting before he has considered the facts.. :)

Dave should know that the difference is the there was prove that LH had lyed. Him and his enginer. (and if I recall correctly only the engineer got severaly punished). None in Alonso's case. And I don't think anyone was hiding this evidence IF existed.

Hearsays, assumptions, suspicions, "it could be" cannot be considered as true facts. I might be wrong though!!!!!

[mstillhere]

Fairly obviously there's no evidence in the public domain that Alonso knew the race in Singapore was manipulated - and in fact I never claimed in my post that he did know. If it were ever proven it would finish his career. But there are plenty in the paddock who strongly suspect that he must have had some knowledge that there was a plan afoot. My point was that the race had been manipulated, there's no denying that. Anyway, it's been debated to death here and elsewhere - feel free to search for the thread if you want further reading.


Indeed. Kobyashi was on a better strategy than either Ferrari and - embarrassingly for Alonso - made that work to his advantage. It was simply wonderful to watch, and one can only speculate just how pee'd off he must have been at that moment :D

Why can't you stay on one topic?? You said that Kobyashi was a super pilot passing Alonso left and right. Now you agree that it happened because he had new tires. But now you are saying it was because he had a better strategy than Ferrari. Can you stick to a topic or the next think you'll write will be about the new circles around Jupitter and how Ferrari was clueless about it?

[mstillhere]

Fair play to Alonso :up:

The reason it was a fast and accurate decision was because it was a clear and obvious jump start. Not all incidents are as clear as that one. However, as Alonso has said, the FIA are holding a meeting before the British GP to look at the issues and hopefully that will result in some improvements.

So, LH slowing down and the passing teh SC not that clear, right? The whole saw it as it unfolded. LH saw it too. But not the stewards. I know, just coincidences, bad luck, yatta, yatta, yatta......

[Dave B]

Why can't you stay on one topic??
Because when people ask me questions I feel it's only polite to answer, even if that veers off the original topic. I shan't bother with certain posters in future. Time to dust off my ignore list.

[pallone col bracciale]

Overtaking the Safety Car is so wrong that there can be no excuse.

[ArrowsFA1]

So, LH slowing down and the passing teh SC not that clear, right?
Right :up:

[Rusty Spanner]

I wonder now that no one is going to run out of fuel if the safety car rules could now be simplified. No solution is going to be perfect and someone is always going to loose out but the lottery of where you are on the lap when the SC is deployed could probably be removed.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari driver Felipe Massa has urged the FIA to act to revise Formula 1's rules in order to avoid a repeat of what happened at the European Grand Prix last Sunday.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84904

I get that Ferrari are annoyed by what happened in Valencia and Luca, Stefano and Fernando have all already had their say, and I sympathise, but the FIA have already called an extraordinary meeting of the Sporting Working Group to look at the issues.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84864

[pallone col bracciale]

Hence drivers getting drive through penalties.. :p

Sorry, but I find your attitude and flippancy alarming, as the Safety Car is there to make a situation safe.

Ignoring it, overtaking it, is therefore an example of a driver who does not understand the significance or seriousness of safety.

That kind of driver should be penalised by a revoke of his licence.

[ArrowsFA1]

...the Safety Car is there to make a situation safe.
As are yellow flags.

Ignoring it, overtaking it, is therefore an example of a driver who does not understand the significance or seriousness of safety.
Would you say the same of someone passing under yellow flags?

That kind of driver should be penalised by a revoke of his licence.
Here's a list of yellow flag, or SC, offences this season (link (http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties.php)):
Malaysia
Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) Overtook Jarno Trulli under waved yellows, no penalty applied
China
Michael Scumacher (Mercedes) Set fastest sector time in FP1 under yellow flag. No action, no breach occurred.
Adrian Sutil (Force India) Set fastest sector time in FP1 under yellow flag. Reprimand
Europe
Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) Overtook safety car, drive through penalty.

Look, in Valencia it was a very close call as to whether Hamilton passed the SC or not. He didn't ignore it, he simply passed a line split seconds before the SC which was on its way out onto the circuit. That's all. Nothing intentional or pre-planned about it, and Hamilton was penalised.

[Tazio]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84904

I get that Ferrari are annoyed by what happened in Valencia and Luca, Stefano and Fernando have all already had their say, and I sympathise, but the FIA have already called an extraordinary meeting of the Sporting Working Group to look at the issues.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84864

Arrows you should be smart enough to know that FM was answering a question. For christ's sake he is being asked by his fan base a direct (email) question and handles it with dignity let's play fair. You’re trying to ("manipulate" ;) ) Ferraris' attempt to keep Ferraris' fan base in the knowledge of what has (already) been said. If we can't trust you to hold the line against the unusual criticism a team is receiving, please don't exacerbate it!
The guy has a blog what do you expect him to tell his people?
Here is what FM said:


"I don't particularly want to go over what happened after that, because it changes nothing in that our race was ruined," said Massa on Ferrari's website.

"However, what happened needs to be looked into because it is not normal than someone commits a serious infraction like overtaking the safety car, when there is a dangerous situation on track and is not really penalised in practical terms.

"We must talk about this together and do something to ensure a situation like this does not happen again. The team has told me that, next week there will be a meeting of the Sporting Working Group: that's good and it's an obvious indication that the FIA is paying close attention to the matter."

Tempest in a Teapot. ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Tempest in a Teapot. ;)
Very true, and yes I'm sure he was just asked the question :s mokin: It's just that Luca, Stefano and Fernando have all had their say and now Felipe. Enough already. You're not happy. We get it :)

[Tazio]

Very true, and yes I'm sure he was just asked the question :s mokin: It's just that Luca, Stefano and Fernando have all had their say and now Felipe. Enough already. You're not happy. We get it :) Fair enough! It is just that he has "his fan base" that want to hear from him! He writes one every race his fans expect it, and all things considered he did a good job of deflecting the issue. I mean let's face it if an engineer has a blog he probably said the same thing as it has been made clear that Ferrari are pissed off. No one cares about Joe schmo's blog But FM’s gets put under a microscope, and even good news sources (like the one you linked) have to print it. I will say this about Autosport having read the entire article it truly was fair and honest. It's people in forums like these that put the spin on them!
Can't we all just get along? :rolleyes: :s mokin:

[Mia 01]

I´m with felipe.

And ignoring the saftey car rule is ignoring other peopels saftey, you first others mean nothing.

Then for such infringment, the penalty must hurt you.

[AndyL]

I´m with felipe.

And ignoring the saftey car rule is ignoring other peopels saftey, you first others mean nothing.

Then for such infringment, the penalty must hurt you.

Surely we've established by now that no-one ignored the safety car rules. The fact that Lewis accelerated past the safety car surely shows he remembered the rule, and was attempting to comply with it by getting past the safety car while he was still permitted to do so. Unintentionally breaking a rule and ignoring it aren't the same thing.

[Big Ben]

Unintentionally breaking a rule and ignoring it aren't the same thing.

Really ? stupid me.. when I got my speeding ticket i forgot to tell them I didn´t realize I was over the limit.. I´m sure I would have got away with a reprimand.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Really ? stupid me.. when I got my speeding ticket i forgot to tell them I didn´t realize I was over the limit.. I´m sure I would have got away with a reprimand.

actually, Andy is right. Yet the punishment should be exactly the same ;)

[CNR]

i do not think lewis should have got the drive through i think both Ferrari should have been given a drive through for holding up the medical car after reading this

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100702/SPORT/707019950/1004

[mstillhere]

Have they no shame? I can't believe what a kiss ass Whitmarsh is:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84913
Now for real the FIA will never punish LH and McLaren.

Ferrari and everyone else should definetly learn from them :(

[Tazio]

i do not think lewis should have got the drive through i think both Ferrari should have been given a drive through for holding up the medical car after reading this

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100702/SPORT/707019950/1004I have a better Idea. Why don't we just throw out all points scored in this race?
Finish the season. And have it be
THE ULTIMATE RACE!!!
with an all star group of grid girls as race stewards! :talk: :wave: :cool:

[Tazio]

Have they no shame? I can't believe what a kiss ass Whitmarsh is:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84913
Now for real the FIA will never punish LH and McLaren.

Ferrari and everyone else should definetly learn from them :( The thing that is much more meaningful (and obvious) is that McLaren are a better team without old clenched butt cheeks Ron Dennis playing the doting parent.
There is nothing in this article that makes me really want to hurl :laugh:
Although I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you :p

[rublazar2]

1. Watch the replay and listen to the throttle and hesitation - there was no way in hell that was planned. Also Hamilton isn't in control of the asshat who hits the released SC button.

Alosno didn't - his problem not Hamiltons. But to go around talking about Maniuplation? Alonso? Ferrari too? People in glass houses...

2. He was given the right penalty and he took it. The fact he maintained second doesn't make the penalty unfair or mean he went unpunsihed. He was punished but got lucky because Valencia has a short entry/exit.

You can't punish people on the basis of 'fairness' only what is in the rulebook. What would have been fairer? holding him until he came out in 8th just ahead of Alonso. That would open a whole new can of worms.

Was it really the right penalty? So, why in San Marino 2006, in his GP2 race, LH was given a Black Flag as he did the same thing, passing the SC?

By the way, I would like to see the on board camera of the Safety Car, maybe
Bernd Mayländer move his hand to let LH pass, and we haven't see that.

[mstillhere]

Was it really the right penalty? So, why in San Marino 2006, in his GP2 race, LH was given a Black Flag as he did the same thing, passing the SC?

By the way, I would like to see the on board camera of the Safety Car, maybe
Bernd Mayländer move his hand to let LH pass, and we haven't see that.

Because......err........that's what it is?

[wmcot]

Look, in Valencia it was a very close call as to whether Hamilton passed the SC or not. He didn't ignore it, he simply passed a line split seconds before the SC which was on its way out onto the circuit. That's all. Nothing intentional or pre-planned about it, and Hamilton was penalised.

But he could/should have braked and tucked in behind the SC. You can't tell me LH didn't know what he should do in that situation.

I have an even bigger complaint, though. The safety car should have been released in time to pick up Vettel, the race leader. That is the job of the SC and the race officials. If the SC can't pick the leader up at the pit exit, perhaps we need more than one SC, say half way around the circuit? LeMans had 3 SC's on track at all SC periods this year.

[Mia 01]

Lewis will be black flagged next time.

[Tazio]

Lewis will be black flagged next time.

That's race(ist) Mia! :mad: :) Did you get "blacked up" for the race?
and if so could you tell me how to get this damn s*** off :s mokin:
kidding! ;)

[AndyL]

Really ? stupid me.. when I got my speeding ticket i forgot to tell them I didn´t realize I was over the limit.. I´m sure I would have got away with a reprimand.

Well in the UK, if you get caught doing 90mph on a 70mph motorway, you'll get prosecuted because that's a clear case of ignoring the rules. If you get stopped doing 75 you probably will be let off with a reprimand. Seems perfectly sensible to me.

[Big Ben]

Well in the UK, if you get caught doing 90mph on a 70mph motorway, you'll get prosecuted because that's a clear case of ignoring the rules. If you get stopped doing 75 you probably will be let off with a reprimand. Seems perfectly sensible to me.

I constantly do 5-10 kmph over the limit because of that... INTENTIONALLY! :P

[donKey jote]

But he could/should have braked and tucked in behind the SC. You can't tell me LH didn't know what he should do in that situation.

or he could/should have kept going at his normal pace... but of course this would have let Alonso squeeze through too.
Sure he knew what he should do: and he did it to within a split second :)

[wmcot]

Lewis will be black flagged next time.

You can't black flag the golden boy!

[Tazio]

And unlike some of his myopic followers, knows how to keep things in context.
Personally I admire all the drivers. They do what they do at great peril, and with great reward. This maybe because when I was young, when you insulted someone, their team, or member of it, you did it to their face or at least on a local telephone call, with the understanding you would see that person again, and be prepared to kick, or get your #$$ kicked for doing it.
My how things have changed :dozey:



The 2008 world champion, and current championship leader, said recently that the 2010 title might mean more than ever to the winner because of the competitiveness of the field.

"We're all feeling the pressure," continued Hamilton, still referring to Alonso's outbursts.

"It's the most intense season so far for all of us. You've seen even with me this year; when you put your whole heart and passion into it you are not always correct with what you say.

"I had that experience in Australia, you know, so we all do it."

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=376007

BTW "The Boss" is not meant to be derogatory. It is a nickname a rabbid fan on another forun gave him and is also in referance to the BOSS advert on his racing gear. It is what you call a "term of endearment"
See it ?vvvvvvvvvv right below the Mobil 1 patch!

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/jan2009/1/9/DF2ECE17-0857-8897-77DC7BE44A9AEA3D.jpg

[Jag_Warrior]

Lewis will be black flagged next time.

Black flagged next time for what... just because?

The stewards could have given him a harsher penalty, but they didn't. And Lewis could have timed the SC pass better (he only mistimed it by a second or so), and there would have been no penalty to begin with... although Alonso would have still been stuck behind the SC. Or, if Hamilton hadn't turned on the afterburners before he came in, he could have been stuck in that group that Kobayashi(?) was heading when he came out. But none of those things happened. What did happen is, he broke a rule and he got a penalty... that didn't yield the result that many people felt it should have. And that's fine. But all this shoulda/woulda/coulda.... and now people want him to get black flagged just for general principle? :confused:

[CNR]

And unlike some of his myopic followers, knows how to keep things in context.
Personally I admire all the drivers. They do what they do at great peril, and with great reward. This maybe because when I was young, when you insulted someone, their team, or member of it, you did it to their face or at least on a local telephone call, with the understanding you would see that person again, and be prepared to kick, or get your #$$ kicked for doing it.
My how things have changed :dozey:




http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=376007

BTW "The Boss" is not meant to be derogatory. It is a nickname a rabbid fan on another forun gave him and is also in referance to the BOSS advert on his racing gear. It is what you call a "term of endearment"
See it ?vvvvvvvvvv right below the Mobil 1 patch!

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/jan2009/1/9/DF2ECE17-0857-8897-77DC7BE44A9AEA3D.jpg
well the only nickname i have for lewis is burnout
talk about races
http://sify.com/sports/hamilton-smokes-peace-pipe-with-dad-ahead-of-british-grand-prix-news-news-khfmuhafdce.html
Hamilton smokes peace pipe with dad ahead of British Grand Prix

[fandango]

It seems Fernando and Lewis have spoken and there are no hard feelings about Valencia. Its goes to show how mature these individuals are compared to three years ago and it goes to both their credit IMO.. :)

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48763

I'm not sure if you're being ironic here, but I seem to remember Lewis issuing a similar statement three years ago saying everything's fine between him and Fernando, with Alonso denying they'd spoken the next day. I only believe two people have buried the hatchet when I see them both saying the same thing at the same time. Together. And that goes for everyone.

[Big Ben]

no. it´s just me. I´ve stolen FA´s phone and now I'm making fun of him... Tomorrow I'll make some prank calls.

Seriously, I wonder if Hammy sent him hugs and kisses. I would have been nice, IMO.