Who thinks Team Dynamics may fail to win a race this year

[Ed]

I was just thinking that they are going to have so little time between finishing the car and the first round at Brands to test the car that they are going to really struggle. I know they are a top team have Knowlegde to sort the car out very quickly but you only have to look at Vauxhall last year who had the same car as the year before, did quite alot of testing in the UK and spain before the first round and they only came away with two wins

[Iain]

Everyone said that in 2005 and look what happened. Won fresh out of the box.

Your point doesn't make sense. It says if they don't get the car finished with enough time to do much testing they'll struggle, but you then say Vauxhall struggled with too much testing. :confused:

[BTCC Fan#1]

I think Dynamics might start off behind Vauxhall and SEAT, but to say they won't win a race this year is a bit premature. They'll be up there and competitive before long.

[LiamM]

Their first win this year will come at Donington, they have always been strong there, they will struggle in the early season again the might of SEAT and Vauxhall and too a degree WSR (as their car is proven, sorta)

[tin-top fan]

I can definitly see them winning at some point this season. It'll only take the seats to have one off race and then it'll be anyone for the win

[VkmSpouge]

I think Team Dynamics will probably win a race this year though it might take a while. Of course the Integra was great straight away so they might manage to do the same with the Civic.

[Alfa Fan]

I'm going to make a prediction. A SEAT Leon won't top the test at Rockingham.

[Ed]

Iain I beg to differ. What I was trying to point out was that Vaxhaul a team that had the car for a year a did plenty of testing struggled with thier car all year long only claiming two wins. The point I was trying to illustrate was that a team who hasnt tested there car will struggle even more

[Pilfp]

I think Dynamics will struggle to start with, but come good later in the season. It will be difficult for them if the car isn't ready this soon before the season.

[100%hondafan]

the intergra was diffrent.its a very good chasis

im not so sure about the civic they have lost a big advantage that the integra had.

then also new rules ect i think they will slowly get stronger towards the end of the year.

integras was strong due to good chasis and already developed internals so no suprise it was so good out of the box. Where as the civic is all new.

[Ed]

dint it share alot of internal parts such as suspension with the old arena designed civis too

[100%hondafan]

yeah thats what i ment by developed internals :P

[Allyc85]

I think they will be fighting for victories once we get to mid season, though like with the integra, you just never know!

[Radders]

I'm going to make a prediction. A SEAT Leon won't top the test at Rockingham.

Think we can safely saw that there will be some sand bagging going in at test day. I vote a BMW will come out top.

[Funks]

Or indeed a SEAT TOLEDO .

[Ian McC]

I think it is going to be very hard for them, they have had a lot of experience in working on projects like this but it seems to be a real shot in the dark as to if it works well or not.

[Radders]

Or indeed a SEAT TOLEDO .

Or a one of them (this is the better option - thank you please)

[kmchow]

I don't TD to win races against the Works cars, but I'm sure he could take a win against the other independents? OTOH, he's in weird situation--more backing than a Independent, not not classed as a Works.

[thompp]

I agree with the title. I think TD will fail to win at least one race this season. But they will probably win all the rest. ;)

[Robinho]

i think they will struggle. the first year with the Integra was an entirely different kettle of monkeys, the car was fresh, but most of its components weren't.

The Civic is new from the ground up, built to new regs and running late, they may surprise me and do a great job and be on the pace straight away, but my suspicion is that they wil struggle to match the form of the last few years

[chrisyboy]

Dynamics dont do things half hearted i think they will be on the pace at the start

[ATF]

I reckon it will take them a couple of rounds but they will get on the case for a late championship charge but might be too late?!

[Ian McC]

Are they going to have a car in one piece and running for Media Day?

[SEATFreak]

I am no TD fan but even I admit the chances of the team winning sometime surely MUST be high.

Just a wild assumption but I think what also makes a good driver is the ability to get the best from a car with regard to the cars overall abilities. If Matt and Gordon can do that with the Civic then I see no reason to think the season will be as dominated by SEAT (as much as I would love them to) as much as people are probably predicting.

[taffy]

got to agree there, If the last 2 seasons are anything to go by then they will be competative from the start.

[SEATFreak]

It seems to me taff' mate Team Dynamics aren't a bad engineering side. I feel that is something that cannot be underestimated.

They weren't as sucessful with the Civic as they were with the Integra it seems I admit, but in 2004 it did win races and was a consistent finishing car on the podiums and sure enough, every time Muller and Neal were on the podium together Neal did better.

I don't know if the new Civic will be as strong as the old one but it won't do worse.

[cos]

I see Neal's got his strategy for this year sorted!


“All I need to do is see if I can rile Jason up so that he loses the plot and then we might all have a chance.”

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=425

[kmchow]

I guess TD had incr their engineering abilities since '96 when they tried to build their own Mondeo and struggled. Their Integra showed they've improved. So upon reflection, perhaps they could maybe win a race or two. Hard to say if their chances are better off at the beginning, mid or late season b/c I'm sure VXR and others would also be working hard to sort out their new car probs/challenges.

[Ian McC]

Well the cars didn't hit the track today, looks like there are 3 test days between now and the start, 22/23 March at Croft and 30 March at Brands, they are going to be doing a lot of work on those days if they get ready for them.

[CroftPilgrim]

i think they will struggle. the first year with the Integra was an entirely different kettle of monkeys, the car was fresh, but most of its components weren't.

The Civic is new from the ground up, built to new regs and running late, they may surprise me and do a great job and be on the pace straight away, but my suspicion is that they wil struggle to match the form of the last few years

However, judging by the fact that they are not registered as an independant entry, they may well be receiving more support from Honda for the Civic than they did for the Integra. I think we write them off at our peril. My understanding is they could have had a proven car, but opted for the Civic. Steve Neal is no fool. I expect them to be competitive although it may take a few races to do it.

[Robinho]

However, judging by the fact that they are not registered as an independant entry, they may well be receiving more support from Honda for the Civic than they did for the Integra. I think we write them off at our peril. My understanding is they could have had a proven car, but opted for the Civic. Steve Neal is no fool. I expect them to be competitive although it may take a few races to do it.

they may not be an independent entry, but they aren't registered as a mnaufactuer entry either. Read into it what you will, but there seems the limit to the support is enough to not want to register as a Honda team.

i don't by any means think they will disgrace themselves, but they are facing an uphill battle, especially with the cars seemingly not even run yet, whilst there major rivalsare looking quick and the BTC spec cars are a known quantity.

i will be surprised if they win a race in teh 1st half of theseason, and i will not be surprised if they fail to make the top step all year, although with the 3 races and reverse grids then they may still have a good chance even if they aren't on the ultimate pace

[WSRfan82]

TD will win races this year but mybe not at the start of the season but this is motersport so anything could happen and it will

[Ian McC]

Well they wont know for sure until they put it on the track so if it turns out to be a pig they will have to live with it.

[ATF]

They could sneak in a Giovanardi/Knockhill-esque win early in the season. Once you start the season behind though, you're always playing catch-up.

[Iain]

However, judging by the fact that they are not registered as an independant entry, they may well be receiving more support from Honda for the Civic than they did for the Integra. I think we write them off at our peril. My understanding is they could have had a proven car, but opted for the Civic. Steve Neal is no fool. I expect them to be competitive although it may take a few races to do it.

I'm guessing the support they had from Honda was bodyshells and body panels, which might be seen as financial support, as they haven't had to convert two roadcars like they did with the Integras.

[SEATFreak]

i don't by any means think they will disgrace themselves, but they are facing an uphill battle, especially with the cars seemingly not even run yet, whilst there major rivalsare looking quick and the BTC spec cars are a known quantity.

Certainly Team RAC and SEAT can sit back a little. They both have highly competitive cars that win races regularly. But the Vectra, whilst already well into testing, still is untested against the oposition. But I wouldn't bet against the Vectra beating the Civic this season.

As for the BTC-spec cars I think the only BTC-spec car that has proven good against the S2000 is the Integra and with three teams with an ex-TD Integra from someone I think one may just surprise and do well.


i will be surprised if they win a race in teh 1st half of theseason, and i will not be surprised if they fail to make the top step all year, although with the 3 races and reverse grids then they may still have a good chance even if they aren't on the ultimate pace

I agree. I don't think this season they are 100% certain of getting anywhere near the pace of the last two seasons but I think Steve Neal has the tactical nouse to use the racing regs well.

[Ian McC]

I'm guessing the support they had from Honda was bodyshells and body panels, which might be seen as financial support, as they haven't had to convert two roadcars like they did with the Integras.

Alan Gow, on the btcc.net forum, described it as 'significant financial support'

[Iain]

A couple of bare bodyshells and a supply of body panels would be worth a few quid I expect.

[100%hondafan]

imagine that saved them a good £30'000 depends on how many pannels and if anythign special done to the shells.

[nicemms]

I think that dynamics will do quite well just look what happened when the Integra was in its 1st season. I think they can do well with it but they will have to fight as Seat are getting better day by day, their form picked up alot at the end of the season so they will be at their peak now.

However TD could easily do a vxr and struggle at the begginning and only start to win more and more towards the end but I think TD have a more experienced line up than vxr had at the start of last season so they may get the civic to work.

I guess we'll have to wait till brands.

[Iain]

Will the S2000 Civic be as tank-like as the Integra though? We've all seen how fragile S2000 cars can be, especially the hatches with their wheels at the corners.

[Ian McC]

Good point that Iain, as well as this is an all new car so reliability may be any issue, could have a few more DNF's this year.

[Ian McC]

I see the car was supposed to take to the track at Donington yesterday but didn't make it.

[WSRfan82]

the civic wins on looks thats for shaw

[Subaru WRX]

no doubet that the new Civic is a great looking car, but it will have show all its potential against the factory Seat and Vauxhall !

[LiamM]

I see the car was supposed to take to the track at Donington yesterday but didn't make it.

I hope it turns a wheel before the season starts, remember the last Halfords car that took to the track without turning a wheel?

[LiamM]

BTW i am aware the 307 was run by VLR, I was just making a parallel between the two

[Ian McC]

BTW i am aware the 307 was run by VLR, I was just making a parallel between the two


Ugh, that's not a pretty thought!

[Subaru WRX]

why Team Hallford's after so many victories and 4 titles, in 2 years isn't backed officially by Honda, its very strange !!

[SEATFreak]

why Team Hallford's after so many victories and 4 titles, in 2 years isn't backed officially by Honda, its very strange !!

I can offer one or two suggestions if you were wanting.

1. The Integra couldn't be backed by the factory as it wasn't built in the country it was raced I am sure was mentioned a while ago.

2. Perhaps Honda were committed to JAS and saw JAS as a more lucrative team to run their cars.

[Subaru WRX]

but even JAS is no longer in the WTCC !!!

[tin-top fan]

1. The Integra couldn't be backed by the factory as it wasn't built in the country it was raced I am sure was mentioned a while ago.


I think it's more the fact that it wasn't sold in this country, rather than the fact that it wasn't built here.

I am still quite amused that Honda won't support team dynamics though. They seem to have given them enough support to warrant them no longer being an independent team ( is this the first time that Dynamics aren't independents? ). Maybe they feel that if Halford win then Honda will benefit from it anyway. For example, doesn't Halfords' wins still count towards the total Honda wins in the BTCC anyway

[TCuns]

Yes for minimal outlay they could have their brand advertised very well, after all when they ran chilton in the arena car in 2004, dynamics helped them score points and Honda were players in the manufactures championship. Without the high investment of Vauxhall or Seat. So a modest backing would seem sensible this year.

[Iain]

As I said in the thread about them testing, there's a big Honda logo on the roof of the car. Maybe that's the extent of their support.

[Ian McC]

As I said in the thread about them testing, there's a big Honda logo on the roof of the car. Maybe that's the extent of their support.

Is interesting though to see that, guess you can read into that whatever you like.

[kmchow]

Since Honda is supplying "technical support" and parts "in kind", that entitles them to have some level of acknowldgement on the car? Bodyshells and parts could easily add up to lotsa $$$.

[thetrooper_uk]

I think everyone is focusing on the Seat, Vauxhall and Honda's. I think the Bmw's will be fighting for the top step from the begining as they are a model that's already a winning car in the WTCC and with the drivers team RAC have got, I say don't dismiss them. I do like the Vauxhalls but like it's been mentioned It's a fresh car.
Look back through the years and it is normally a car that's has had a few years in the series that wins. It's more about reliability I feel and scoring points in every round not who's winning a race.
I say a BMW will win the first race most likely to be Colin Turkington.
The new Vectra VXR has a bad understeer problem so if they can overcome this early on I see them doing will this season.

[EVOBOY]

I would be very surprised if they don't hit the poduim by mid season, those boys are committed & have a point to prove, especially as they can't score any manufacturers points ect ect (have they been shafted by Mr Gow? yes I think so!) :mad:

[CharlieJ]

Never underestimate TD. Personally, I'll be very surprised if Matt doesn't have at least an outside chance of the championship by the end of the season. As for not winning a race..... I'd expect them to win at least a couple. Matt will just have to remember that, unlike the Integra, the Civic doesn't have corners that can be knocked about without damaging the suspension! :p

[Ian McC]

Shedden hasn't had much chance in the car as of yet

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=456&PHPSESSID=e80bdf4c58f8ad2caa955454cf79dead

One thing that is almost certain to change, more DNF's this year.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Maybe the new cinic will be like the old one - fast but fragile :s

[Ian McC]

Maybe the new cinic will be like the old one - fast but fragile :s


I think you mean cynic, though as to if it's Matt or Jason you are talking about I'm not sure :p :

[Steelrat]

I was just thinking that they are going to have so little time between finishing the car and the first round at Brands to test the car that they are going to really struggle. I know they are a top team have Knowlegde to sort the car out very quickly but you only have to look at Vauxhall last year who had the same car as the year before, did quite alot of testing in the UK and spain before the first round and they only came away with two wins

Well, I think we have the answer to this now ....

P

[VkmSpouge]

Yep they did good today. I think Gordon Shedden will be looking forward to Rockingham as Brands Hatch really only served as an extended test session for him.

[Ian McC]

:D :beer:

Very nice indeed, that would of been a lot more than they could of hoped for!

[EVOBOY]

well that result should kep the doubters quiet! However we will see the true pace of the civic at Rockingham?Fantastic result & payback for the team who have put a hell of a lot of hours into getting that civic race ready in such a short amount of time, cracking stuff lads :s mokin:

[Ian McC]

However we will see the true pace of the civic at Rockingham?


Yes, I was wondering how it is going to cope on the faster circuits but I am sure they have learnt a hell of a lot today.

[ADnet]

One issue, when shedden went off.. for what reason was it? did the slight contact break the upright/steering arm? or did something let go? the wheel looked out of place

[Haddock]

Just as an aside, it must be making the bean counters at SEAT and Vauxhall (and perhaps even BMW) wonder whether they're getting good value for all the money they've thrown into developing S2000 cars. When a relatively small independent team can develop their own S2000 car with minimal support from the works and win first time out with it!

Doubt they'll dominate like they did in 2005/06 but they're clearly contenders. And good to see a decent sized entry this year - too many times over the last few years the BTCC grid has been embarassingly small. I guess there's enough old S2000 equipment about that the cost of competing must be coming down.

[Eunos]

I don't know. I'd say not until atleast the 3rd Race this Season :p

[CroftPilgrim]

Just as an aside, it must be making the bean counters at SEAT and Vauxhall (and perhaps even BMW) wonder whether they're getting good value for all the money they've thrown into developing S2000 cars. When a relatively small independent team can develop their own S2000 car with minimal support from the works and win first time out with it!


That's the whole point - the support they are receiving is not minimal. Alan Gow (on the BTCC.net forum) has already said the reason they cannot be classed as an independant entry is because of the size of the exclusive support they have received from Honda. The reason why they are not a manufacturers entry is not because the support is not big enough, but because Honda haven't paid the entry fee for the manufacturers championship. Quite simple really (which means, evoboy, that they have not been shafted by Alan Gow! TD know the rules and I dont hear them complaining about it)

[Robinho]

i admit i was well wrong, i expected they'd struggle with the new car, but they appear to be on the money straight away. good work from the team, however much support they have had form Honda (did anyone notice how the other teams referred to them as "Honda" in all the interviews rather than Dynamics or Halfords?