Pictures of Toyota TF110/Stefan GP finally revealed

[Giuseppe F1]

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/tf10.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264273.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264272.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264257.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264256.jpg

[Giuseppe F1]

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264255.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264254.jpg

http://f1around.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/264253.jpg

Source:http://f1around.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/tf110-%E2%80%94-o-carro-com-o-qual-a-toyota-competiria-em-2010/

[Giuseppe F1]

Why are they revealing pics of the car now? For any of the prospective 13th Entrant teams for 2011 who may be after a customer chassis perhaps???

[Giuseppe F1]

Nose looks 'Virgin-esque' in the first pic and 'Williams-esque' in the fourth pic IMO

[Roamy]

Thanks a lot FROG

there is no way this car should not have been allowed to contend.

[Giuseppe F1]

Thanks a lot FROG

there is no way this car should not have been allowed to contend.

'FROG'????

[tf109b]

A pity, This car should have been raced. Sadly Toyota decided enough was enough. F1 not being related to their road cars and the market falling made the decision easier for them to drop out. I hope they come back in with a radical design like this in the next few years.

[fizzicist]

Looks considerably more sophisticated than pretty much any of the new teams...HRT would be better off trying to buy this

[Jag_Warrior]

'FROG'????

Jean Todt is French... just a guess.

[Roamy]

Jean Todt is French... just a guess.

:)

[ShiftingGears]

Thanks a lot FROG

there is no way this car should not have been allowed to contend.

Then maybe a team not run by a fraudster should've tried to enter it.

[Bagwan]

Then maybe a team not run by a fraudster should've tried to enter it.

Nobody believed the "fraudster" when he said he had two cars ready .
Apparently , he did .

Could some of the other items used to characterize him as "fraudster" be a fraud , too ?

[jonny hurlock]

three months late, very bold looking for a toyota f1 car with the front wing

[Robinho]

i don't see 2 cars in any of those pics. i beleive they had one complete car and one partially complete available to Stefan for when the money arrived, which it never did

[I am evil Homer]

Nobody believed the "fraudster" when he said he had two cars ready .
Apparently , he did .

Could some of the other items used to characterize him as "fraudster" be a fraud , too ?

No everyone believe Toyota had one complete car and another being built in time for testing. Where do these pics prove a) Stefan had the money and b) had the ability to compete in an F1 season?

[AndyL]

Apparently the TF110 had a "ride height adjustment system":
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/

Has anyone bought this issue of Racecar Engineering, or seen any details elsewhere about this? I'm wondering whether it was a purely manual system that could be adjusted at pit stops like Ferrari's, or if it was something a bit more rule-testing, like what Red Bull was speculated to have at the beginning of the season.

[Bagwan]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/21/unraced-toyota-tf110-with-extreme-diffuser-driven-by-kazuki-nakajima/

Two cars .

[SGWilko]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/21/unraced-toyota-tf110-with-extreme-diffuser-driven-by-kazuki-nakajima/

Two cars .

Prescott....

[V12]

Thanks for posting these pics, such a crying shame that this machine will become nothing more than an expensive museum piece while it could have been racing, whether as a Toyota or in some other form.

:(

[Bagwan]

Prescott....

Explain .

[Dave B]

It's a shame Toyota didn't enter into partnership with someone credible. They'd got one car to the point of almost being ready for a shakedown test, and another one ready for final assembly, but Stefan never coughed up the readies to make it happen - largely becuase he was poorer than a church mouse whose wife had just left him, taking all the cheese.

If a halfway competent outfit had got hold of these cars you never know what might have happened.


Explain .

It's a reference to the one-time Deputy Prime Minister of the UK, John Prescott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Prescott), regarded as a hypocrite for advocating public transport use while himself having the use of two ministerial Jaguars (one of which was famously used for a journey which you could walk in less than a minute, but Prescott didn't want his wife's hair getting messed up!)

[Roamy]

brockman maybe you should tell us how you of all people know the details behind stefan's entry into F1.

If the Frog would have let him run THEN you could call BS on Stefan but until then you seem to have some great knowledge here. Lets hear the details

[truefan72]

Nobody believed the "fraudster" when he said he had two cars ready .
Apparently , he did .

Could some of the other items used to characterize him as "fraudster" be a fraud , too ?

:up:

[Dave B]

brockman maybe you should tell us how you of all people know the details behind stefan's entry into F1.

If the Frog would have let him run THEN you could call BS on Stefan but until then you seem to have some great knowledge here. Lets hear the details
The FIA didn't let Stefan run becuase he had nothing to run. One almost (but not quite) complete car, never FIA crash-tested; and one bag of bolts. No money, one full-time member of staff, no money, one leased transporter, no money, oh and did I mention NO MONEY!?

My BS detector went off the scale the moment Zoran opened his mouth, it's just sad that so many were suckered into believing his monumental fantasies. Some still do, seemingly.

[truefan72]

To me it is a travesty that this car is not running. Easily it would have been probably competing with Renault, Mercedes and Force India for that 2nd tier. It was a Toyota after all and in 2009 was pretty damn competitive.

Equaly parts of blame go to the fIA and JT for their stupid bureaucracy while bending over backwards for semi-useless outfits like HRT. and USF1, whose slot should have simply been given to Stefan GP.

The other part of the blame goes to the top F1 teams ( although probably lead by Williams though) who quietly campaigned and bemoaned the possibility of Stefan GP entering for no other reason as it would have proven to be a worthy challenger to them. This includes my beloved Macs, RBR, Ferrari et all, who through their team bosses quietly successfully killed this entrant while at the same time crying like babies about the dangers of the new entrants. I tried to move on from this whole Stefan GP fiasco, but seeing these pics just makes me mad all over again.

[Roamy]

I disagree. I think the entry has to come before the crash test. He could have had a lot of money parked in the back of him, but who would be dumb enough to spend it without a confirmed entry. If we are guessing, I would guess JV had some bucks behind him. aka canadian tire

[Bagwan]

It's a shame Toyota didn't enter into partnership with someone credible. They'd got one car to the point of almost being ready for a shakedown test, and another one ready for final assembly, but Stefan never coughed up the readies to make it happen - largely becuase he was poorer than a church mouse whose wife had just left him, taking all the cheese.

If a halfway competent outfit had got hold of these cars you never know what might have happened.



It's a reference to the one-time Deputy Prime Minister of the UK, John Prescott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Prescott), regarded as a hypocrite for advocating public transport use while himself having the use of two ministerial Jaguars (one of which was famously used for a journey which you could walk in less than a minute, but Prescott didn't want his wife's hair getting messed up!)

Thanks for the explanation , Dave .
I'm not sure how he fits here , so maybe Wilco might explain that part .

Stefanovic , like Toyota , was waiting for the go ahead from the FIA .
Cars were ready to go

A lot of things could have fallen into place quite quickly , had USF1 been scuttled earlier .

It seemed to me like a "catch-22" situation . No money meant no entry , and no entry meant no money .
For the FIA , it seemed like a good moment to try something like a "probationary entry" , where we could see those cars race , but still remain in control of whether the team or , more importantly , it's owner , was too slimy , even for the pirranha club .

I know you don't believe him , but there is a reasonable chance the money would be there if the entry was , as Bernie , and Toyota , who have now paraded thier aborted entry , trumpeting it's innovative merits , despite it's non-suitability to next year's formula , must have thought , being they backed it . Why bother showing them at all , if not to prove they were ready ?
He sure hasn't tried too hard to fit in so far , seemingly going out of his way to pi$$ off the FIA at every turn .

But , I was suspicious of how the dirt came out as packaged bits only after the FIA said no .
Evidence was a nearly empty bank account .
I've got two or three , and one or two with cash in them , too .
If I were to accept some corporate sponsorship in any or all of my businesses , any or all of those accounts could be full tomorrow .

I sure wouldn't use one of my currently held accounts for starting a new entry in F1 . I would open up a new one . I could do that with a buck .

[truefan72]

The FIA didn't let Stefan run becuase he had nothing to run. One almost (but not quite) complete car, never FIA crash-tested; and one bag of bolts. No money, one full-time member of staff, no money, one leased transporter, no money, oh and did I mention NO MONEY!?

My BS detector went off the scale the moment Zoran opened his mouth, it's just sad that so many were suckered into believing his monumental fantasies. Some still do, seemingly.

Who should I believe, your twist on things or the man himself who was ready to go racing and as has been summarily proven had the vehicles to do so. If you remember he wanted to test at Barcelona and was unable to since bridgestone refused to supply tires.

Its funny how you speculate and are so sure of yourself in your opinion of this man and team with only your opinions and obviously not the facts on your side.
I don;t recall not having money as a factor for not giving him the entry, and he was in much better shape than HRT, Virgin, and probably Sauber who are struggling to get a sponsor on the car or serious development going.

The entry was denied on bureaucratic BS by guys detached from sound reasoning. But I guess it is easier to believe your own theories and avoid looking at the photos of cars, clearly ready to participate in testing and most likely racing.

[SGWilko]

Wilco might explain that part .

Is it a doppleganger?

[SGWilko]

I sure wouldn't use one of my currently held accounts for starting a new entry in F1 . I would open up a new one . I could do that with a buck .

WOuld you expect to be given an entry then?

[Bagwan]

WOuld you expect to be given an entry then?

Would you sign on as a sponsor if I didn't have one yet ?

[Dave B]

Who should I believe, your twist on things or the man himself who was ready to go racing and as has been summarily proven had the vehicles to do so.
When has it been proved that he "had the vehicles to do so"? Two months on, when a car was wheeled out into Toyota's carpark and fired up. It wasn't ready for Stefan to test back in March, even if Bridgestone had made him their only customer and given him free tyres for life. :laugh:

Don't give me this sob story either that it was only the big bad FIA who scuppered Stefan's chances. There was zero chance of him making it if they'd been granted an entry, which is why the FIA didn't invite ridicule by inviting a bunch of no-hopers to the party.


By the time it was official that Stefan GP didn't have an entry it was irrelevant because there was no sensible infrastructure and the team, according to a source, was "a million miles away from (professionally) running two cars in Bahrain".

Source: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=40601

I'll happily agree to disagree, but I can't be bothered trying to debate any more becuase it's like banging my head on a brick wall. If they turn up for 2011, or build this proposed Serbian F1 track, feel free to remind me of this thread and I'll happily eat my words. Until such time, I'm out.

[SGWilko]

Would you sign on as a sponsor if I didn't have one yet ?

As a sponsor, I'd be more inclined to jump aboard if I knew the team owner had more than hot air and an incomplete car from a failed team to shout about.

Someone with the necessary funds perhaps to go racing for at least part of the season, with a business plan, and letters of engagement from the relevant sporting/governing bodies etc.

But, you take your buck, and set up a team. I'll see you on the telly maybe.......

[Bagwan]

As a sponsor, I'd be more inclined to jump aboard if I knew the team owner had more than hot air and an incomplete car from a failed team to shout about.

Someone with the necessary funds perhaps to go racing for at least part of the season, with a business plan, and letters of engagement from the relevant sporting/governing bodies etc.

But, you take your buck, and set up a team. I'll see you on the telly maybe.......

What if the owner of the commercial rights to the series backs me ?
What if a major manufacturer has two cars ready to go for me ?


Todt punished Toyota for leaving , and Stefan for going to the trade commission , it seems ; much simpler and less risky than waiting for him to fail , as USF1 had just done .

[SGWilko]

What if the owner of the commercial rights to the series backs me ?
What if a major manufacturer has two cars ready to go for me ?


Todt punished Toyota for leaving , and Stefan for going to the trade commission , it seems ; much simpler and less risky than waiting for him to fail , as USF1 had just done .

If you were not picked because you were not found suitable, what makes you think running to the teacher would help your cause.

Nothing in the poorly worded press releases, the photoshopped images contained within the aforementioned, suggests to me this guy is worth a quart of Rhinocerous pizzle - a diseased one at that.

Punishing Toyota serves no purpose whatsoever. Burning bridges never did anyone any good.

[jens]

Sad to see those pictures and such a nice-looking car being left without use. :( While for the majority of its participation Toyota was known for its conservatism, their last few designs have already looked more interesting and innovational, giving a hunch of positive movements. Maybe, just maybe this car would have been good. Ah, well... I think the team had a few talented aerodynamicists, one of them is known to be in Ferrari now.

[ioan]

Then maybe a team not run by a fraudster should've tried to enter it.

Why do you feel the need to insult someone you never talked too?!

[ioan]

The FIA didn't let Stefan run becuase he had nothing to run.

You call that car nothing?!

IMO what the FIA did was show their stupidity in cocooning a failure in the US while such a beauty race car was expecting to be raced!

[ioan]

When has it been proved that he "had the vehicles to do so"? Two months on, when a car was wheeled out into Toyota's carpark and fired up. It wasn't ready for Stefan to test back in March, even if Bridgestone had made him their only customer and given him free tyres for life. :laugh:

Prove it.
You talk like you were a Toyota insider and knew everything. Lots of hot air no facts.

Even now that you are proven wrong with the pictures of fully developed F1 cars you still deny the reality. This speaks volumes.

[ioan]

If you were not picked because you were not found suitable, what makes you think running to the teacher would help your cause.

You mean that USF1 were picked because they were suitable?! :rolleyes:

How about HRT/Hispania/whatever they are called who are in financial troubles while running a car that would come last in a GP2 field? Are they looking better then what Stefan would have fielded?!

[ioan]

What if the owner of the commercial rights to the series backs me ?
What if a major manufacturer has two cars ready to go for me ?


Todt punished Toyota for leaving , and Stefan for going to the trade commission , it seems ; much simpler and less risky than waiting for him to fail , as USF1 had just done .

It certainly looks like that to me.

[SGWilko]

The point needed to be considered here is whether Stefan GP's original entry included the use of the Toyota car/cars and promise of technical collaboration.

I am not at all sure it did first time round.

[ArrowsFA1]

The point needed to be considered here is whether Stefan GP's original entry included the use of the Toyota car/cars and promise of technical collaboration.

I am not at all sure it did first time round.
After a quick search of Autosport.com the first mention I can find of Stefan GP is on September 8th, 2009 concerning them filing a complaint with the European Commision action against the FIA relating to the selection process. At that time Toyota appeared to be staying in F1.

It wasn't until November 2009 that there were rumours that Stefan GP may link up with Toyota, whether that was to be taking over their entry, or using their cars.

In December Toyota said "we have interest from Stefan GP" but as Stefan had no entry at that point nothing had been agreed.

If Stefan GP were only talking to Toyota in December it seems unlikely that Toyota were any part of their original entry.

[SGWilko]

After a quick search of Autosport.com the first mention I can find of Stefan GP is on September 8th, 2009 concerning them filing a complaint with the European Commision action against the FIA relating to the selection process. At that time Toyota appeared to be staying in F1.

It wasn't until November 2009 that there were rumours that Stefan GP may link up with Toyota, whether that was to be taking over their entry, or using their cars.

In December Toyota said "we have interest from Stefan GP" but as Stefan had no entry at that point nothing had been agreed.

If Stefan GP were only talking to Toyota in December it seems unlikely that Toyota were any part of their original entry.

What's that game that lady's who smoke like chimneys and are on benefit play? You know, with balls numbered from 1 through 90............?

[I am evil Homer]

As amazed as pro-Stefan GP members on here might be at the cynicism of other members, the other side of the coin is that at face value we're only seeing photos of one, possibly two rolling chassis. And we're seeing them in May.

Hardly proof Stefan GP was either ready to join the F1 circus.

[ioan]

The point needed to be considered here is whether Stefan GP's original entry included the use of the Toyota car/cars and promise of technical collaboration.

I am not at all sure it did first time round.

Another point is that they were not willing to use Cosworth and most probably got screwed by Max because of that.

[Bagwan]

OK , then , what was the point of bringing them out to show the public , but to rub it in the face of the governing body that wouldn't allow it to happen ?

And , who else was lined up to use them ?

They don't fit next year's regs , so they can't be for sale for next year .

Getting the two rolling chassis ready after the fact would just cost more money . If they weren't willing to continue , why throw more money at it ?

This says those chassis must have been close enough to being ready to have used them .

It does them no good if the perception is that they gave up when they were putting such effort in , but if the perception is that the car could have been run , but for the foolishly inflexible FIA , the situation is different .


Whilst also showing the world a sexy , technically advanced rocket ship , they attain a ton of retribution with the exposure of two cars , pointing directly to the FIA as the culprit , using a legion of fans saddened by the exclusion .

And , why not just show one ? That's all it takes to show the car and it's merits .
And , while you're at it , paint one red and leave the other unpainted , just so there's no confusion about there being two .



This is Toyota saying that it could have happened .
And , the only guy lined up to do it was Stefanovic .

[SGWilko]

OK , then , what was the point of bringing them out to show the public , but to rub it in the face of the governing body that wouldn't allow it to happen ?

And , who else was lined up to use them ?

They don't fit next year's regs , so they can't be for sale for next year .

Getting the two rolling chassis ready after the fact would just cost more money . If they weren't willing to continue , why throw more money at it ?

This says those chassis must have been close enough to being ready to have used them .

It does them no good if the perception is that they gave up when they were putting such effort in , but if the perception is that the car could have been run , but for the foolishly inflexible FIA , the situation is different .


Whilst also showing the world a sexy , technically advanced rocket ship , they attain a ton of retribution with the exposure of two cars , pointing directly to the FIA as the culprit , using a legion of fans saddened by the exclusion .

And , why not just show one ? That's all it takes to show the car and it's merits .
And , while you're at it , paint one red and leave the other unpainted , just so there's no confusion about there being two .



This is Toyota saying that it could have happened .
And , the only guy lined up to do it was Stefanovic .

You've missed the fact of what they had at the ready for their original entry. No tie up with Toyota.

[Bagwan]

They weren't allowed a Toy engine then anyway . It had to be Cosworth , so how is that relevent ?

The tie-up with Toyota came later , after Toyota left , as a last ditch effort to replace the failing USF1 .

Or , did you miss that ?

[ioan]

You've missed the fact of what they had at the ready for their original entry. No tie up with Toyota.

And what did USF1 or Hispania have ready when they submitted their original entry? Please let me know, I am really curious.

[tf109b]

OK , then , what was the point of bringing them out to show the public , but to rub it in the face of the governing body that wouldn't allow it to happen ?

And , who else was lined up to use them ?

They don't fit next year's regs , so they can't be for sale for next year .

Getting the two rolling chassis ready after the fact would just cost more money . If they weren't willing to continue , why throw more money at it ?

This says those chassis must have been close enough to being ready to have used them .

It does them no good if the perception is that they gave up when they were putting such effort in , but if the perception is that the car could have been run , but for the foolishly inflexible FIA , the situation is different .


Whilst also showing the world a sexy , technically advanced rocket ship , they attain a ton of retribution with the exposure of two cars , pointing directly to the FIA as the culprit , using a legion of fans saddened by the exclusion .

And , why not just show one ? That's all it takes to show the car and it's merits .
And , while you're at it , paint one red and leave the other unpainted , just so there's no confusion about there being two .



This is Toyota saying that it could have happened .
And , the only guy lined up to do it was Stefanovic .

Now on motorsport home page, there is a story of Durango looking for collaboration with Toyota. Seems to me that the story they had on their car for this year worked well. If they can put as much work into a car for next year and have it look like they did this year, there's nothing stopping Toyota (with sufficient backing from an outside source or team) from making a very capable car for 2011. In fact I bet they have guys ready to make a chassis right now. They could use the 2010 chassis as a base since it looks to be a good unit, and update the car to 2011 spec aero. No Diffuser, smaller front wing non-adjustable, then adjustable rear wing. get rid of the turning vanes or whatever else the rules state. I think with Toyota technical know-how and with some cash flow from possibly Durango who is said to have backing from a russian source, that chassis or car might just be front of the midfield, playing with Mercedes/Renault/Force India.

[SGWilko]

They weren't allowed a Toy engine then anyway . It had to be Cosworth , so how is that relevent ?

The tie-up with Toyota came later , after Toyota left , as a last ditch effort to replace the failing USF1 .

Or , did you miss that ?

Didn't miss it, no sireeeeeeee. Just wondering what perhaps they had in the way of ability to design and produce a car prior to copying Toyota's homework.

[SGWilko]

And what did USF1 or Hispania have ready when they submitted their original entry? Please let me know, I am really curious.

HRT had a tie up with a known and respected constructor - Dallara. USF1 had the respected Windsor - although I think it fair to say he is now a lot less respected.......

[jens]

As amazed as pro-Stefan GP members on here might be at the cynicism of other members, the other side of the coin is that at face value we're only seeing photos of one, possibly two rolling chassis. And we're seeing them in May.

Hardly proof Stefan GP was either ready to join the F1 circus.

That we are seeing those chassises in May, doesn't mean they weren't ready for Bahrain. I guess there hasn't been done any development work for almost half a year by now, so based on that quite an impressive work. It's not like after the pull-out of Toyota anyone has funded further development/completion of the cars.

[Bagwan]

That we are seeing those chassises in May, doesn't mean they weren't ready for Bahrain. I guess there hasn't been done any development work for almost half a year by now, so based on that quite an impressive work. It's not like after the pull-out of Toyota anyone has funded further development/completion of the cars.

Exactly right , jens .

No point in pointing out that they left without racing it .

The point is to point at the FIA .

Bad Toyota should be punished for leaving .
Bad Zoran should be punished for going to the commission over "Cosworth-gate" .

By the way , shouldn't Cosworth , itself , be investigated , being that it was probably them who insisted they needed a minimum of teams to return , prompting the seemingly illegal "Cosworth clause" in small print on the entry form ?

It's just another nail in the commission coffin for the FIA in this debacle .

These cars are proof that Toyotas , run by StefanGP were ready and able to fill in for a team that never had a chance , USF1 .

[I am evil Homer]

No it isn't proof at all it's supposition. Either that or you need to go look in a dictionary to understand the words you're using.

These photos aren't time stamped, there's no evidence of when they were taken.

[SGWilko]

No it isn't proof at all it's supposition. Either that or you need to go look in a dictionary to understand the words you're using.

These photos aren't time stamped, there's no evidence of when they were taken.

We seem to be jumping up and down over some two bit potential entrant, but no-one barely mentions Prodrives continued refusal of an entry......!

[I am evil Homer]

Well we do but again it's been pointed out when inital entries were put in, everyone assumed the budget cap was in place. Then it wasn't. Prodrive couldn't afford to compete as they simply don't have the cash to.

Much like Stefan GP who haven't actually bought anything from Toyota. Which is odd considering he's supposedly so rich.

Prodrive's original entry idea was always to use a McLaren but the FIA apparently preferred watching a rubbish Dallara and a Manor car with bits that fall off and a small tank than allow existing teams to give equipment to others.

But it is what it is. If Stefan has the cash and the equipment he'll try entering for 2011. But I don't see any evidence that he does.

[Bagwan]

No it isn't proof at all it's supposition. Either that or you need to go look in a dictionary to understand the words you're using.

These photos aren't time stamped, there's no evidence of when they were taken.


So , genius , why build them after the fact ?
Or , did fairies build them ?

[jens]

Much like Stefan GP who haven't actually bought anything from Toyota. Which is odd considering he's supposedly so rich.


There wasn't much point in buying them if there was no guarantee for a race start. What would Mr Stefanovich do with the cars now? Hence a partnership deal made more sense.

[Robinho]

apparently Toyota were in talks with USF1 about the cars before the Stefan affair, ahrdly a ringing endorsement that Zoran was 2nd choice potential customer behind USFai1

[ioan]

apparently Toyota were in talks with USF1 about the cars before the Stefan affair, ahrdly a ringing endorsement that Zoran was 2nd choice potential customer behind USFai1

Link?

[tf109b]

They have no links, all they have is speculation. The car was completed before the end of the season from last year. They already knew they were pulling out but were hoping to stay in with someone else running their team. That didn't happen. Stefan was one to pick up the Toyota team and the employees toyota had. Those are the guys that made the car, and as far as the deal was concerned Pascal Vasselon who was in charge of the TF108 TF109 and TF110 was to be apart of this team. If he is apart of the team than obviously he will bring along technical know-how and his own crew of toyota employees. In a statement issued just about a month ago, Toyota was said to be willing to help any new team or other team looking for F1 as a place to work. They have facilities, people, windtunnels, the works. Why anyone would think they aren't capable when Toyota was the main one in charge is beyond me. The only thing I can think of that people didn't want to use the toyota facilities was they wanted their own name. I'm sure it has to do with that. Even renaming the car I'm sure you would have to run some Toyota badging on there. For me being a person that likes Toyota it wouldn't be a problem, but I guess for hard heads out there like USF1 that had too much pride, they felt their own efforts would be better than having outside help from the BIGGEST car company in the world. How foolish.

[ioan]

...but I guess for hard heads out there like USF1 that had too much pride, they felt their own efforts would be better than having outside help from the BIGGEST car company in the world. How foolish.

Please don't mention those idiots from USF1 ever again. :D

[tf109b]

Now it seems HRT has eyes on Toyota's cologne factory AND the TF110! Story on motorsport home page a few hours ago.