The USA GP has a new bidder.....

[UltimateDanGTR]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/21/monticello-motor-club-making-united-states-grand-prix-bid/

Monticello Motor club in New york is attempting to host the USA grand prix. apparently Tilke approves of the circuit and says with a few grandstand modifications it could be up to F1 standards.

but any race track with 'club' in it's name seems a bit ambitious for F1. this is one to watch as the journey could be interesting, though i can't see it happening.

[christophulus]

Nice track layout, but it will need an enormous investment to get it up to scratch. We can dream though...

[Shifter]

Would be great, but alas, this seems like a rather smart way to get your new facility into the headlines.

[Mark]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/21/monticello-motor-club-making-united-states-grand-prix-bid/
but any race track with 'club' in it's name seems a bit ambitious for F1.

Including the British Racing Drivers Club?

[UltimateDanGTR]

Including the British Racing Drivers Club?

ah, that's different. for one, the circuit is called 'Silverstone Circuit'. and the BRDC who own it are a very different motorsports club, lots of ex-F1 drivers and having interests in events right from the grass roots to the pinnacle of motorsport make it a very 'elite' club if you like, and is chaired by a formula one world champion.

[Mia 01]

US and F1?

[Tazio]

Including the British Racing Drivers Club?
I humbly suggest you learn how to speak American! :p





L0yQunhOaU0

[Mia 01]

I humbly suggest you learn how to speak American! :p





L0yQunhOaU0

Yes, he is pretty dum some times.

F1 in US, is there money? Ken and Bernie. Nope. We need some people interestid in F1 there. Montoya!

[fandango]

The track looks like one of the minor British tracks, or even has a bit of a Brands Hatch feel, from looking at the video. I'm thinking of the curves and changes in gradient. The weather would be "interesting" there too, could be like Spa in that sense.

But it doesn't have a lot of obvious passing spots, and it seems kind of narrow for modern F1. The race could turn out to be another Hungarian GP.

It's near New York City, and not too far away from Montreal, so you could see it fitting in nicely a week after or before the Canadian GP. But who'd go?

The only way F1 is going to take off in the US is if they have some kind of promotional F1 drivers vs American drivers series, with the best of each series competing in different races and different cars.

[JimClarkFan]

It's a club circuit with virtually no instrastructure besides the track itself.

Also, I think it's too close in distance to Montreal. Canada is only about 4 hours of so North. Even though I am in Connecticut, I would prefer to to see a USGP farther west.

[Tazio]

It's a club circuit with virtually no instrastructure besides the track itself.

Also, I think it's too close in distance to Montreal. Canada is only about 4 hours of so North. Even though I am in Connecticut, I would prefer to to see a USGP farther west.Las Vegas is the obvious choice!
A new dedicated F1 facility it is the only place in the U.S. (IMO)
that has the entertainment capitol to get behind it.

[Roamy]

Las Vegas is the obvious choice!
A new dedicated F1 facility it is the only place in the U.S. (IMO)
that has the entertainment capitol to get behind it.

Vegas was a dismal failure in their previous attempt. In order to be successful in Vegas they would have to sensationalize it with a great track incorporating the casino area. pretty tough to do. IMO the only logical place for the F1 GP is Watkins Glenn - Get out the facelift kit and keep Tilke out of it.

[Sonic]

Las Vegas is the obvious choice!
A new dedicated F1 facility it is the only place in the U.S. (IMO)
that has the entertainment capitol to get behind it.

Vegas would be great. A proper track (not a poxy car park) using the strip as start finish line and host it at night - OMG! How amazing would that be? Never ever going to happen though :(

[Blancvino]

This track, in my view, has ZERO chance of being an F1 venue. Who is buying this doodle. It's 20 miles from BFE.

[Tazio]

Vegas was a dismal failure in their previous attempt. In order to be successful in Vegas they would have to sensationalize it with a great track incorporating the casino area. pretty tough to do. IMO the only logical place for the F1 GP is Watkins Glenn - Get out the facelift kit and keep Tilke out of it.

In case you weren't paying attention Las Vegas' population is about 20x larger than it was when they ran in the parking lot @ Caesar's Palace!

Hail Caesar!!
http://www.elpais.com/recorte/20061029elpepudep_3/XLCO/Ies/Fernando_Alonso_recibe_calor_Oviedo.jpg


But more importantly Vegas used to be a "Mob" town. Most hardcore gamblers are disgusted how family oriented it's become. Their really is no reason to judge the viability of Vegas in the cotext to it's last GP.
That's like trying to compare Atlantic City to Vegas.
No Contest Scro.

[Roamy]

In case you weren't paying attention Las Vegas' population is about 20x larger than it was when they ran in the parking lot @ Caesar's Palace!



I also don't think local population has much to do with it. Phoenix was also dismal and had a much larger population. F1 has its followers and a pack of gamblers are not interested. Watkins Glen is cheap and easy to get to for international fans. If I recall this year even, some of the new venues are suffering attendance failures. The current "HOT HUBs" of F1 i think can be attributed to Countryman drivers, Country rivalries, knowledge of the sport,
Companies involved in construction etc. China, Dubai, Abu Dabi have no horse in the race. I suspect their success if any will be very short term.
Lets see how Turkey does next weekend. I think if they reinstated Imola it would sell out!!

[fandango]

....................I would prefer to to see a USGP farther west.

Ah, remember the days when there was a USGP East and a USGP West. They didn't know how lucky they were...

[Jag_Warrior]

Las Vegas is the obvious choice!
A new dedicated F1 facility it is the only place in the U.S. (IMO)
that has the entertainment capitol to get behind it.

What happened to the rumors of a Vegas F1 race anyway? Who was behind it, Steve Wynn?

Until they start dealing with "real players" in the U.S., I give a future USGP about the same shot of happening as the USF1 team has of making it to the grid next year.

[Jag_Warrior]

IMO the only logical place for the F1 GP is Watkins Glenn - Get out the facelift kit and keep Tilke out of it.

Watkins Glen is sort of the spiritual home of the USGP, but with the Frances owning it, I can't see the race ever returning to that track... unless Bernie wants to pay for the upgrades out of his own pocket. Sad, really. But ISC seems happy enough with what's at Watkins now.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

I don't think racing in Vegas is a good idea. I like Vegas but people don't go there to watch racing and Vegas certainly doesn't need another attraction to draw people.

[Tazio]

I don't think racing in Vegas is a good idea. I like Vegas but people don't go there to watch racing and Vegas certainly doesn't need another attraction to draw people.The Mint 400 has been pulling them in for decades.
People from San Diego, LA, (and the inland empire) Bakersfield, The Bay Area
Salt Lake City, and Arizona, go there for all kinds of attractions. Myself, I saw Marvin Hagler,and Tommy Hearns fight there. Crosby Stills and Nash, Hank Williams Jr. Crystal Gayle. Back Stage for Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, BB King, Team Brazil Beat the US in a Vollyball Friendly right after they opened the Thomas,and Mack center and managed even to race a little Motocross, and fished in a Bass tournament at Lake Mead when I lived there. It is with maybe the exception of New York City the biggest entertainment city in the
"Home of the Brave"

BTW I even got comped int the WWF at the Showboat. :confused:


Build it, and they will come!!
,

[Tazio]

I also don't think local population has much to do with it. Phoenix was also dismal and had a much larger population. I think if they reinstated Imola it would sell out!!Roamy I don't want to get into a spitting match with you.
Here is the distinction between Vegas, and Phoenix.
Las Vegas has grown because of the hospitality and entertainment business. Phoenix is a completely different demographic. They have beautiful Spring Training facilities. (I've played ball in most of them). Tempe Diablo is particularly impressive. Sun Devil Stadium at ASU is a top shelf facility.
The major portions of the nice parts of Phoenix are inhabited by retirees.
It's on average about 6% hotter than Vegas in the summer but does not get as cold in the winter.
I think Tucson is much nicer. but I don't get along with "Crazy" Rednecks that well.
It depends on the individual.
Have you seen "The Wynn Hotel"? It's a freakin' monstrosity! It's very large.
If Steve Wynn has that kind of money to throw around, this is a no brainer. You and I do agree on one thing. I'd like to see them bring back Imola, and loose some of the Tilkedromes :up:

http://tradeshowinformer.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/the-wynn.jpg

.

[call_me_andrew]

I have never heard of this track, and I can't imagine how it would host an F1 race in the next decade.

I studied the San Degio area and couldn't find any suitable locations for a street course.

Seattle might make an interesting street course: everything is up hill.

Of course the purpose of a USGP isn't to make Americans show up at an F1 race, it's to get Europeans to empty their pockets in America. The weak euro has killed the dream.

[nigelred5]

Man, I can remember how bad the traffic was getting up to the Glen for the F1 races. I can't imagine how bad getting into that place would be. I just can't see it. Maybe that 25 minute Helicopter Ride from Manhattan appeals to B.E. He has basically said it really wouldn't matter if ther was any crowd at an F1 race, as long as it was good for TV. Well, that place certainly could accomodate that.

[Roamy]

Roamy I don't want to get into a spitting match with you.
Here is the distinction between Vegas, and Phoenix.
Las Vegas has grown because of the hospitality and entertainment business. Phoenix is a completely different demographic. They have beautiful Spring Training facilities. (I've played ball in most of them). Tempe Diablo is particularly impressive. Sun Devil Stadium at ASU is a top shelf facility.
The major portions of the nice parts of Phoenix are inhabited by retirees.
It's on average about 6% hotter than Vegas in the summer but does not get as cold in the winter.
I think Tucson is much nicer. but I don't get along with "Crazy" Rednecks that well.
It depends on the individual.
Have you seen "The Wynn Hotel"? It's a freakin' monstrosity! It's very large.
If Steve Wynn has that kind of money to throw around, this is a no brainer. You and I do agree on one thing. I'd like to see them bring back Imola, and loose some of the Tilkedromes :up:


.

While the thought of a race in Vegas is appealing the feeling is just not there. Vegas people are a breed of their own. Wynn has met on several occasions with Bernie. The latest idea was to use some near by land which would be recovered with grass during the offseason and would utilize part of the strip. It didn't happen and probably won't happen unless Wynn puts it together. The casino people are pretty shrewd and if this was a money maker it would happen, but apparently it is not. Also Wynn's doberman almost bit Bernie's nose off.

With respect to Phoenix, I agree that the environment is not good for a F1 race. The street course was horrible, phoenix has no "downtown appeal, one of the organizers I believe was Harley Cluxton - a little whiner boy with nothing more than daddy's money.

Also I do not think street racing suits F1. I hate the Monaco Parade. I think as F1 has expanded in search of new capital markets the mystic and charm has suffered. Tracks like Spa, Monza, Imola, Suzuki still seem to head most avid fans favorite list. While change is inevitable it is not always for the better.

[D28]

It's a club circuit with virtually no instrastructure besides the track itself.

Just who would invest the required millions for a probable short term F1 contract. The Tony George experience is too recent for prudent investors to step forward.

[Tazio]

While the thought of a race in Vegas is appealing the feeling is just not there. Vegas people are a breed of their own. Wynn has met on several occasions with Bernie. The latest idea was to use some near by land which would be recovered with grass during the offseason and would utilize part of the strip. It didn't happen and probably won't happen unless Wynn puts it together. The casino people are pretty shrewd and if this was a money maker it would happen, but apparently it is not. Also Wynn's doberman almost bit Bernie's nose off.

With respect to Phoenix, I agree that the environment is not good for a F1 race. The street course was horrible, phoenix has no "downtown appeal, one of the organizers I believe was Harley Cluxton - a little whiner boy with nothing more than daddy's money.

Also I do not think street racing suits F1. I hate the Monaco Parade. I think as F1 has expanded in search of new capital markets the mystic and charm has suffered. Tracks like Spa, Monza, Imola, Suzuki still seem to head most avid fans favorite list. While change is inevitable it is not always for the better.I agree with everything you just posted.
It is the underlying reason why the US should not host an F1 race.
It is as painful to watch the old Phoenix GP's as the Detroit races.
And if it came to a road race in a metropolitan setting I would be dead set against it, even if it were in S.D.
BTW the chances of that happening are about a million to one.
Now Baja, there is an Idea :s mokin:

[Roamy]

Taz

Watkins Glen is the answer for many reasons! Just a couple
1. population and international influence of NYC
2. cheap Virgin airfare.
3. population and proximity of east coast

[D28]

This just in.
The Greenwich Village Motorsport Committee, has announced planns for a F1 circuit, using Manhatten and Brooklyn thoroughfares, including the Brooklyn Bridge. Financing for the proposed USGP would be managed by selling shares in the Brooklyn Bridge; investors would own the historic structure, and could set fares accordingly.
F1 chief, Bernie Ecclestone, is reported to be in serious discussion with the Committee Chairperson.

[Tazio]

population and international influence of NYC


The #1 reason I would stay away
I may run into some of my relatives ;)

followed closely by #3

"Get off me joey" :p

[Easy Drifter]

Waterford Hills.
Perfect.
There are just a couple of teeny problems.
It is too short.
It is too tight.
It is too narrow.
There are no facilities.
There are no grandstands.
There are no garages.
The access sucks.
You have to run mufflers.
It is close to Detroit.
Bernie will love it!

[Roamy]

Waterford Hills.
Perfect.
There are just a couple of teeny problems.
It is too short.
It is too tight.
It is too narrow.
There are no facilities.
There are no grandstands.
There are no garages.
The access sucks.
You have to run mufflers.
It is close to Detroit.
Bernie will love it!

I am real surprised anyone besides me knows of this track. My cousin drives there quite often

[Easy Drifter]

Used to be there a lot. Many Cdn. drivers have raced there.
Did you know there once was a pro F Atlantic race there?
The late Charlie Gibson in a March stopped mid race for a burger. He came within a few feet of the hillside concession stand!
The car companies often use Waterford for press days.

[speeddurango]

I never knew there exists such a long track (6.5km) in US! A club track to me usually implies its length being short, but this is obviously not the case, and it's not located far from downtown Manhattan. I should say it is a feasible idea to find the investment and revamp the track to host an F1 race.

[Saint Devote]

I doubt there will be a USGP again - unless........

There are just too many other country's government funded deals that are clamouring to hold a Grand Prix.

And the United States government does not fund sporting events - they give money to areas where VOTES are attainable.

And therein rests a solution. The way to achieve a grand prix nowadays begins with lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

Analyze which State will gain most and begin by QUIETLY approaching local government.

It will take a few years, but if funding [non-gauche term for money], jobs and votes can be packaged well, then a US GP will be likely.

All this grandstanding making sweeping announcements is not the way it works - which leads me to believe that Bernie actually is not interested in having a grand prix in the US.

Canada is close enough and good enough for him.

[DexDexter]

I've got an idea, now that they appear to have a great circuit ready for F1. Let's have an American team with American drivers based in Charlotte, I hear carbon fibre is cheaper there... :rolleyes:

[call_me_andrew]

Analyze which State will gain most and begin by QUIETLY approaching local government.

If government funding is needed, then local and state funding would be enough to host a grand prix. If Bernie wants $30 million for a street race, then ask the local government for $10 million on the promise that "A Grand Prix would bring more out of town visitors to this city than the Super Bowl". Local government then asks the state for a grant to cover the cost of street improvements. At that point, a promoter just needs 150,000 people to buy $133.34 tickets to Sunday's race and he'll break even.

[Rodster]

Eccelstone confirms interest in bringing an F1 race to Monticello, NY as early as 2012.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100524/F1/100529878

[ykiki]

I love the term, "as early as..."

[Tazio]

I love the term, "as early as..."

It's right up there with "no less than" :dozey:

[ykiki]

It's right up there with "no less than" :dozey:
Indeed - or benefits "that could pay as much as" ;)

[Alfa Fan]

And the US GP is back...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83873

[djparky]

a new purpose built track- oh great another one of those bloody Tilke things- yawn.........

so long straight- lead into tight first corner- followed by another quick left hand corner- short straight- twisty bit- long straight- tight hairpin- another long straight- corner leading onto start/finish line- with the regulation bump (a la China and Abu Dhabi)- all with 5 mile wide run off areas

[inimitablestoo]

Intrigued to see the name of Tavo Hellmund in the mix. Those with long memories of obscure bits of national racing series may remember him competing in Class B of the British Formula 3 Championship in 1995. Somehow I do...

[Tazio]

Now were talkin'
It's even in a civilized city in Texas! :uhoh: :p

[MOliscous]

I'm very excited about a GP in Austin. I grew up there, graduated HS in Westlake. Austin is very contemporary for Texas. There are a lot of students from all over the world who attend the University of Texas. It has great nightlife (6th Street), lots of nice hotels, a great airport and is located central to the US. I hope it all goes through and I can't wait to see where the circuit is and how it's designed. I may be tempted to move back.

[christophulus]

Well that appeared from nowhere, nice work again Bernie..

Tilke's tracks aren't that bad, the Turkish one is the highlight though. I'd like to see him push the FIA's rules to the absolute limit though, maximum elevation changes, minimum run off etc. If they're so desperate to get a GP in America they might even give him a bit more to work with.

We can dream..

[DanicaFan]

I see that as a bad investment, building a whole new track just for F1. F1 in America isnt popular. I say yawn on this one. I dont see much profit. I think Austin could spend the money more wisely by building an oval and maybe a road course mixed in the oval like other venues.

[JimClarkFan]

Please, please, please do not let this become another USF1 or Donnington like failure...

[anthonyvop]

I see that as a bad investment, building a whole new track just for F1. F1 in America isnt popular. I say yawn on this one. I dont see much profit. I think Austin could spend the money more wisely by building an oval and maybe a road course mixed in the oval like other venues.

If you think they are going to build a track only for F-1 then you have no idea how the business of motorsports works.

If it is built the will run F-1 and probably other series like IRL, ALMS, Grand-Am ect along with Club and Private testing.

For example. the Homestead-Miami Speedway hold a NASCAR and an IRL race each year along with a Grand-Am event. The Speedway was booked for over 250 days last year. Clubs, track Days, Testing and Commercials. Then there is the Kart Track in the parking lot. The Test & Tune 1/8 mile drag racing on pit-lane every Friday night and the occasional Auto X and Rally-Cross.

They are busy. This track will be busy also....if it is built.

[JimClarkFan]

I agree it needs to be a multi-use facility. I worry about the time needed. Do they have the land? Do they have all the permits? Do they have a plan?

It's a great idea, again, I just hope it works out. We do not need another big black eye.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I thinking this will put paid once and for all the viability of f1 with Americans. This will either be a roaring success, or in 3 years Bernie is dissatisfied with the crowds and people are tired of F1.

The fact is, people in Texas are not stupid. They will come out but this circuit better provide good racing, and this has to be well promoted for the right price or they wont keep coming back.

[truefan72]

US GP Back on F1 calendarstarting in 2012 with a specialty built track ni (of All places) Austin Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/25/formula-return-austin/

I barely made it out to Indy 1 or 2 times, because its..Indy

But I cannot fathom how Bernie would sign a 11 yr contract to host F1 races in Austin Texas.
1. In the heart of Nascar Country
2. In a geographical location that ensures the only people managing to see the race will be those flying in
3. in Texas!!!!
4. In Texas!!!!

I guess Bernie found some crazy Texas group willing to loose money for the next 12 years, proving once again that staging a good race is the last of his concerns with making money no matter what as his top priority.

I am dumbfounded

Trust me I want F1 in the US, but I really don't see how Austin Texas will be a successful event/location

[Mark in Oshawa]

US GP Back on F1 calendarstarting in 2012 with a specialty built track ni (of All places) Austin Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/25/formula-return-austin/

I barely made it out to Indy 1 or 2 times, because its..Indy

But I cannot fathom how Bernie would sign a 11 yr contract to host F1 races in Austin Texas.
1. In the heart of Nascar Country
2. In a geographical location that ensures the only people managing to see the race will be those flying in
3. in Texas!!!!
4. In Texas!!!!

I guess Bernie found some crazy Texas group willing to loose money for the next 12 years, proving once again that staging a good race is the last of his concerns with making money no matter what as his top priority.

I am dumbfounded

Trust me I want F1 in the US, but I really don't see how Austin Texas will be a successful event/location

They will get a crowd for the first one...you are too harsh. The key is will Texans pay through the nose to watch 4 passes all afternoon on an antiseptic cirucit in June's heat more than once? THAT is the problem.

I think out of all the cities in Texas, Austin is the best, so I don't think for a second the location sucks for finding an open minded smart population. This isn't a town full of Billy Bob's and Bubba's....but in the end, f1 has to realize their idea of racing doesn't really jive with what Americans see as racing.....

[Blancvino]

US GP Back on F1 calendarstarting in 2012 with a specialty built track ni (of All places) Austin Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/25/formula-return-austin/

I barely made it out to Indy 1 or 2 times, because its..Indy

But I cannot fathom how Bernie would sign a 11 yr contract to host F1 races in Austin Texas.
1. In the heart of Nascar Country
2. In a geographical location that ensures the only people managing to see the race will be those flying in
3. in Texas!!!!
4. In Texas!!!!

I guess Bernie found some crazy Texas group willing to loose money for the next 12 years, proving once again that staging a good race is the last of his concerns with making money no matter what as his top priority.

I am dumbfounded

Trust me I want F1 in the US, but I really don't see how Austin Texas will be a successful event/location

This will never happen. Write it down.

[truefan72]

the problem with Austin Texas is that i is in the middle of Texas, meaning it is many many hours drive from any other major metropolitan area save Dallas and those areas are all NASCAR bound. So the only real audience it will get will be from those willing to fly in to see the race and then probably be gouged on tickets, hotels, etc. It will take some miracle to pull this off and an even bigger one to sustain it over the years

[diggie]

Parts of Texas may like their Nascar, but Texas is pretty dang large and Austin certainly is not a Nascar city. In addition, it is within driving distance for 4th, 7th, and 8th largest cities in the United States. Austin itself is the 15th largest, one spot behind Indy. So as far as population goes there is plenty. Sure it is no New York for population but apparently they weren't willing to pony up. Bernie can't make a city host a F1 race. As far a city that matches the F1 culture I think Austin will be great. The atmosphere in Austin is wonderful and will really suit formula 1.

[Mark in Oshawa]

the problem with Austin Texas is that i is in the middle of Texas, meaning it is many many hours drive from any other major metropolitan area save Dallas and those areas are all NASCAR bound. So the only real audience it will get will be from those willing to fly in to see the race and then probably be gouged on tickets, hotels, etc. It will take some miracle to pull this off and an even bigger one to sustain it over the years

22 million people live within 4 hours drive....and race fans to an extent are race fans......

Like I said, the curiousity factor will get them there once....

What I want to know who is paying for the track? I want to meet that guy...because I want to see how many fingers he has left after shaking hands with Bernie Ecclestone.....

[Blancvino]

Prediction, NEVER happens.

[truefan72]

They will get a crowd for the first one...you are too harsh. The key is will Texans pay through the nose to watch 4 passes all afternoon on an antiseptic cirucit in June's heat more than once? THAT is the problem.

I think out of all the cities in Texas, Austin is the best, so I don't think for a second the location sucks for finding an open minded smart population. This isn't a town full of Billy Bob's and Bubba's....but in the end, f1 has to realize their idea of racing doesn't really jive with what Americans see as racing.....

I hear you I got family that live in Dallas and it is a nice city. But it is not F1 nice and I doubt that Texans are willing to pay the bernie ransom on a year to year basis. Yeah I actually think there are more F1 fans than people thinking the US but you have to view this as a subcontinent and ask yourself would a guy in turkey, drive/fly to Silverstone or a guy in Moscow to Valencia? those are the distances faced by the major metropolitan areas in the country with a higher concentration of F1 fans.

Anyway I will wait and see how this thing develops but as of right no, I' am not too optimistic as to its success.

Then again, no F1 races these days are a success. The only one smiling at the end of the day is the winning driver and Bernie. Certainly not the event organizers.

[truefan72]

btw just noticed the other thread sorry

[Retro Formula 1]

The key is will Texans pay through the nose to watch 4 passes all afternoon on an antiseptic cirucit in June's heat more than once? THAT is the problem.

The key is will anyone. At least Dubai don't have bugs.


I think out of all the cities in Texas, Austin is the best,

That's a bit like trying to choose which Redneck and his Sister you want to kiss.[/quote]

[truefan72]

Parts of Texas may like their Nascar, but Texas is pretty dang large and Austin certainly is not a Nascar city. In addition, it is within driving distance for 4th, 7th, and 8th largest cities in the United States. Austin itself is the 15th largest, one spot behind Indy. So as far as population goes there is plenty. Sure it is no New York for population but apparently they weren't willing to pony up. Bernie can't make a city host a F1 race. As far a city that matches the F1 culture I think Austin will be great. The atmosphere in Austin is wonderful and will really suit formula 1.

Fair points, but I I still think the location is suspect

Athens GA has the same vibe albeit smaller in size, but I won't put an f1 race there either

[Easy Drifter]

I too have doubts. The NIMBYS will soon be if full cry.
Danica Fan: Rovals make lousy road courses. Indy is probably the best and it sucks as a road course.
You cannot find an open day at many road courses including the Glen which is still in the middle of nowhere. Beautiful country but the nearest cities are Buffalo and Rochester both 60 to 80 miles away.

[Tazio]

You guys are missing the plot.
This is a promoters dream come true.
The musical capitol alone will make this an epic event!
Plan on spending the whole week! :up:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Prediction, NEVER happens.

Not a bad prediction. I wouldn't have believed it before the USF1 fiasco....but now...well, until the first laps are turned.....

[Mark in Oshawa]

You guys are missing the plot.
This is a promoters dream come true.
The musical capitol alone will make this an epic event!
Plan on spending the whole week! :up:


The music community will not pay this one bit of attention unless someone pays them to....

[ykiki]

The music community will not pay this one bit of attention unless someone pays them to....

The music community may not pay attention to the race, but I think Tazio's point was that the racing community would want to pay attention to the music.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The music community may not pay attention to the race, but I think Tazio's point was that the racing community would want to pay attention to the music.

They will enjoy it the same way they all enjoy the "ballet" in Montreal...lol

[DanicaFan]

I wish them the best but F1 doesnt have the draw in America like it used to. I think the fiasco at Indy turned a lot of people off and not many care anymore. I dont follow F1, never did when they raced here at Indy either, its just not as popular here in the states, sorry to burst the F1 fans bubble. ;)

[Tazio]

The music community will not pay this one bit of attention unless someone pays them to....


And that is a staple "stock in trade".


Austin's official motto is the Live Music Capital of the World.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Austin


Let's say I'm a little more optomistic than you Mark!

Who knows maybe ZZ will ~~slide in~~~~~~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EFdod4YDo&a=Bix7aGLxAqI&playnext_from=ML
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU

[i_max2k2]

Fair points, but I I still think the location is suspect

Athens GA has the same vibe albeit smaller in size, but I won't put an f1 race there either

I hear you, I read this on the official site, Austin??!!, well as much as I don't think it would be a success, atleast it will be here, I was planning to fly to Interlagos this season, but well if it comes here, it comes here, hopefully the circuit wont be as much of a disappointment as the venue.

[Ari]

This will never happen. Write it down.

Spot on. Bernie is a clever cat. He's just trying to push agenda with the MMC out of New York. I like the way he thinks!

[Saint Devote]

Spot on. Bernie is a clever cat. He's just trying to push agenda with the MMC out of New York. I like the way he thinks!

If you think that something like this will shift the "powers that be" in the NY metro area into agreeing to stage motor races - then I have a bridge in NYC for sale........

Full Throttle has good connections to NASCAR, Texas is a state that is gaining population compared to California that is losing.

The economy in Texas has been going great guns, and it is the most capitalistic of States - unlike anywhere in the insipid Northeast.

There are so many positives to holding a US GP in the Great State of Texas - the Galveston area [district 14] elects people that are raw capitalists.

It is my favorite State for many reasons AND it is singularly a State that is solidly supportive of Israel :D

I love Texas. And as a sticker frequently seen on trucks there says: never mind America, God Bless Texas! Amen brother!

I hope this report is accurate because if Abu Dahbi and Bahrain can hold races then this is going to be a cakewalk for Bernie.

[Ari]

If you think that something like this will shift the "powers that be" in the NY metro area into agreeing to stage motor races - then I have a bridge in NYC for sale........

Full Throttle has good connections to NASCAR, Texas is a state that is gaining population compared to California that is losing.

The economy in Texas has been going great guns, and it is the most capitalistic of States - unlike anywhere in the insipid Northeast.

There are so many positives to holding a US GP in the Great State of Texas - the Galveston area [district 14] elects people that are raw capitalists.

It is my favorite State for many reasons AND it is singularly a State that is solidly supportive of Israel :D

I love Texas. And as a sticker frequently seen on trucks there says: never mind America, God Bless Texas! Amen brother!

I hope this report is accurate because if Abu Dahbi and Bahrain can hold races then this is going to be a cakewalk for Bernie.

Holy crap Batman! You're right! And it's now official. :O

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83873

Now, about that bridge you have for sale.........

[Saint Devote]

Holy crap Batman! You're right! And it's now official. :O

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83873

Now, about that bridge you have for sale.........

:D Well its fairly heavy and cannot be moved anywhere but if you deposit......

[Tazio]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138394&page=4

I think it's time to merge the threads Pino :)


Athens GA has the same vibe albeit smaller in size, but I won't put an f1 race there either


The music community will not pay this one bit of attention unless someone pays them to....

I beg to differ my men!!


They will enjoy it the same way they all enjoy the "ballet" in Montreal...lol

I humbly suggest you start thinking less like a "Truck Driver,"
and just the least little bit like a "Rocker" (for a second or two) ;)


Every night over one hundred venues stage live music.
Austin's official motto is the Live Music Capital of the World.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Austin


Let's say I'm a little more optomistic than you!

Who knows maybe ZZ will ~~slide in~~~~~~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EFdod4YDo&a=Bix7aGLxAqI&playnext_from=ML
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU

"EPIC I SAY"

[Placid]

Love to see Jerry Jones or Mark Cuban get a piece of Cyphe.

[racefanfromnj]

Well i for one will continue to silently hope usgp will come to mmc its only 2 or 3 hours from me i will definely make that one

[Tazio]

There are so many positives to holding a US GP in the Great State of Texas - the Galveston area [district 14] elects people that are raw capitalists.

It is my favorite State for many reasons AND it is singularly a State that is solidly supportive of Israel

Yea' that's the deal closer for me too! :dozey:

[gloomyDAY]

http://netwrok.us/stuff/gifs/cupcake-flashback.gif (http://netwrok.us/stuff/gifs/cupcake-flashback.gif)

[Rodster]

I went to Austin back in the 90's. It's definitely not a hillbilly/bubba town. Austin Texas is basically a College town and even back then it was a very cool place to be. Me thinks Bernie is staging a battle with Nascar as Nascar has made overtures in the past to expand outside the US and into Europe.

There is no other racing series on the planet that is on the level of F1 other than Nascar. No doubt Bernie wanted Manhattan but Austin is not a bad choice if the track layout turns out to make for good races.

Does anyone know if Tilke will design the course or is it up to the US track owners?

[markabilly]

there are some nice hills to the west, and one could make out a challenging track similar to Seca, very easy, even using some public roads

The area to the west reminds me of monterey and parts of the town do as well, .....and the area to the east is very flat.

been out there is the hill country on the west side charging on an r6 around 1999, dragging the knee...

OTOH, they did have an F1 race or two in dallas using a parking lot, which flopped like a fish out of water, (and so it should have) so who knows.

Personally, i think it is never going to happen, but it would need to be in the fall or spring as the weather is stunning that time of year. Middle of summer is awful hot at times.

[import111]

I wonder when the Austin race will be on the calender. Most of the time it is pretty hot in Texas. Would have to be very beginning or very end of the season for me to go. Other wise it will be too damn hot.

[markabilly]

I wonder when the Austin race will be on the calender. Most of the time it is pretty hot in Texas. Would have to be very beginning or very end of the season for me to go. Other wise it will be too damn hot.
when i been in austin, the weather was weird, as it does not feel that hot except for the latter part of july and very early august.

maybe it is the altitude and the hills in the area, but i found it far more pleasant than Dallas, San Antonio and Houston in the summer...

[CNR]

US GP Back on F1 calendarstarting in 2012 with a specialty built track ni (of All places) Austin Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/25/formula-return-austin/

I barely made it out to Indy 1 or 2 times, because its..Indy

But I cannot fathom how Bernie would sign a 11 yr contract to host F1 races in Austin Texas.
1. In the heart of Nascar Country
2. In a geographical location that ensures the only people managing to see the race will be those flying in
3. in Texas!!!!
4. In Texas!!!!

I guess Bernie found some crazy Texas group willing to loose money for the next 12 years, proving once again that staging a good race is the last of his concerns with making money no matter what as his top priority.

I am dumbfounded

Trust me I want F1 in the US, but I really don't see how Austin Texas will be a successful event/location
oil money
the attachment reminds me of bernie

[Ari]

Well i for one will continue to silently hope usgp will come to mmc its only 2 or 3 hours from me i will definely make that one

I think MMC would have been a considerably more classy option. Plus, the track already exists so you're half way there. I don't like the idea of starting with nothing and building a new facility in Texas.

Yes there's more to Texas that just rednecks, but a lot of the world associate them that way. You can't beat popular opinion. I sure hope they get enough bums on seats with the locals, because I can't see this being an internationally popular thing.

MMC on the other hand? I think I'd have gone over to watch a race there in the plush gardenlands on what is effectively a luxury private estate.

I guess the Texans just paid more. Nice to see Bernies not for sale. Ho hum.....

[nigelred5]

Where the Hell did THAT come from????

So does anyone have any idea WHERE in the Austin area this track will supposedly be built?? JUNE??? Austin is a cool town, I just don't see it as F1



Please, please, PLEASE keep Tilke away from Texas!

[markabilly]

Where the Hell did THAT come from????

So does anyone have any idea WHERE in the Austin area this track will supposedly be built?? JUNE??? Austin is a cool town, I just don't see it as F1



Please, please, PLEASE keep Tilke away from Texas!
June not that bad.

If they build it in the hill country to the west and use the eleavation changes and so forth, it could be even better than Seca.

June is fairly pleasant in austiin.....unlike many other areas of the south in the summer

when it comes to new york, I do not think f1 needs another flat street circuit or parking lot race track....although that might be what they are planning for austin as well...if so, then :down: :down:

[winer]

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/5/10824.html

[anthonyvop]

US GP Back on F1 calendarstarting in 2012 with a specialty built track ni (of All places) Austin Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/05/25/formula-return-austin/

I barely made it out to Indy 1 or 2 times, because its..Indy

But I cannot fathom how Bernie would sign a 11 yr contract to host F1 races in Austin Texas.
1. In the heart of Nascar Country
2. In a geographical location that ensures the only people managing to see the race will be those flying in
3. in Texas!!!!
4. In Texas!!!!



Have you ever been to Texas let alone Austin?
Texas has barely been touched by the recession. Austin is home to many major corporations and is a cultural mecca.

Rather have it in Austin Texas than that cultural backwater known as Indy.

[Ari]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/search.php

:p

[keysersoze]

I lived in Texas for 24 years and have spent considerable time in Austin. Like many, I never saw this coming, and do not see this area of the country as embracing F1, but then again, very few places in North America would qualify.

Other random thoughts:

There are pockets of redneck-ness all over this country, so the poster who singled out Texas as redneck country is just uninformed.

Texas does tend to see themselves as bigger and better than anyplace else, which may partially explain the F1 ambition.

All the money is on the west side and traffic is a beeyatch. The cheap land is east of Austin, as is the airport, so I expect the track to be on that side of town. It's perfect for another character-less Tilke design. :rolleyes:

and finally . . .

all my exes . . . live in Texas :D

[D28]

I seem to recall a US Grand Prix in Dallas in 1984, which is not fondly remembered as a classic F1 event. Still Austin is not Dallas and it may happen, though I would not bet on it. Neither would I invest any of my own money in the venture.
As for Watkins Glen being in the middle of nowhere, (Easy Drifter), in the later GPs held there, record crowds of 100,000 were reported. It is close enough to population centres of Toronto, NYC, and Eastern seaboard cities. The sport is motor racing and many enthusiasts own cars and are prepared to drive a few hours. If the racing is first class. I believe Watkins Glen could support a USGP again, but that door was closed quite a few years ago.

[Ari]

Yes there's more to Texas that just rednecks, but a lot of the world associate them that way. You can't beat popular opinion. I sure hope they get enough bums on seats with the locals, because I can't see this being an internationally popular thing.


There are pockets of redneck-ness all over this country, so the poster who singled out Texas as redneck country is just uninformed.

I pointed that out. But what you said is absolutely right, I am uninformed! However.... that is not what's relevant here. To me... Texas and Alabama is redneck country. This could be absolutely wrong, and probably is, but reality has nothing to do with perception. And, again, I could be wrong but... Texas is perceived as rich oil wellers and rednecks. This could well effect the number of international tourists.

I mean, look at Rich Texan on The Simpsons! :p

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=16755

http://www.city-data.com/forum/general-u-s/62548-what-us-state-has-most-rednecks.html

[Easy Drifter]

D28: I did not mean it the way you took it. I was to many US GP's at the Glen and we also raced there a lot. Based in Toronto then. I do think the 100,000 was a bit of a stretch and I was there in later years. Still good crowds. Outside of current ownership, it would take many millions to bring the track to F1 (Bernie) specs.
What I actually meant is that the track is booked for events almost every day in season.

[call_me_andrew]

I too have doubts. The NIMBYS will soon be if full cry.
Danica Fan: Rovals make lousy road courses. Indy is probably the best and it sucks as a road course.

While I haven't given up on finding a good roval, I would think that a "raceway park" solution would work better for securing a F1 race because it allows the most freedom in design.

As to the matter of elevation changes: it's Texas! Texas covers 268,820 square milies (696,241 square km), but doesn't have a single mountain.

If Watkins Glen can support a Sprint Cup crowd, then it can support a F1 crowd. It supporting the F1 cars, pit road, and egos that cause problems.

[D28]

D28: I did not mean it the way you took it. I was to many US GP's at the Glen and we also raced there a lot. Based in Toronto then. I do think the 100,000 was a bit of a stretch and I was there in later years. Still good crowds. Outside of current ownership, it would take many millions to bring the track to F1 (Bernie) specs.
What I actually meant is that the track is booked for events almost every day in season.

I agree with that. The numbers I quoted from Wiki, which is not always reliable, probably claimed by the promoters. Still, there were really good crowds there, considering the general lack of facilities and all had to drive to get there. Someone else mentioned here that the France family now owns Watkins Glen and would not be interested in negotiating with Bernie. He in turn would not want to return there. I do believe that Watkins Glen would have more potential to draw knowledgable F1 fans, then would Austin.
It would take millions to conform the circuit to Bernies's standards, but at least the basic layout is there. How would it be possible to build a circuit from scratch and ever break even? Even Tony George only had to pave the infield, the stands garages etc. were intact. Still he apparently never recovered his investment. If you project the ticket prices necessary to cover the cost of a completely new facility, it remains a very dubious proposition.
I also remain suspicious of so many planned F1 locations being announced every other week.

[garyshell]

Bernie is up to no good again. This venue has as much chance of ever opening as the proverbial snowball in hell. Who is going to pay to build this? It's not going to get a dime of government money and as near as I can tell there has not been a new non-government funded F1 track built in a very long time.

So who is the fool who is going to build the track AND pay Bernie's extortion fees to hold the race. Sounds like someone who would want to make a small fortune by starting with a much larger one.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

As to the matter of elevation changes: it's Texas! Texas covers 268,820 square milies (696,241 square km), but doesn't have a single mountain.



Never been there have ya? The hill country around Austin isn't mountains I agree, but last I looked, they just need a few hills to make things interesting. Go to El Paso and west of the Pecos and tell me again what those tall things blocking the sun set are. They are NOT hills man....

As for all the idiots out there who think nothing but rednecks with no brains live in Texas, well, I guess you need to go there and find out the hard way that the people there are smart, and only act dumb to fish you in so they can rob you blind in business with them. Austin is one of the most unique cities anywhere in the US. If F1 cannot work there, I don't see it working anywhere else in the US either.....

[Easy Drifter]

You do not need mountains to get an exciting track with elevation changes.
The Glen is in hilly country and has elevation changes. Elkhart has some good elevation changes and there aren't mountains there. S. Jovite is in the Laurentians but not on a mountainside. Laguna has the infamous corkscrew. My old home track of Mosport has elevation changes on most corners (1,2,3,4,& 8). 2 is famous for its drop and 4 (the Chute) also drops like a stone and then goes abrubtly uphill after the stream into 5 (Moss). It in no way resembles mountains! St. Croix uses the valley banks of the St Lawrence River for elevation changes not far from Quebec City.

[call_me_andrew]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20100525/car-f1-austin/

"Austin city officials and Texas Comptroller Susan Combs helped promoters pitch the location. Hellmund said the facility would be privately financed and will not use public money"

I'd like to know if private money has an alias.

But I found this interesting.

"In 2007, Ecclestone made fans angry when he said Formula One didn't need an American race, even though the U.S. Grand Prix consistently drew one of the biggest crowds on the circuit, attracting about 125,000 fans each year."

Of course I don't usually get racing news from HuffPo.

[CNR]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/what-is-formula-one-709302.html



What is Formula One racing?
F1 is considered the most prestigious form of racing in the world. It is governed by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile, or FIA, based in France. The cars are lightweight, aerodynamic, extremely fast — and among the most difficult to master in all of racing.

[ShiftingGears]

I predict it to be as flat as a tack and lots of awful hairpins placed to 'spice up the show'.

If it really goes ahead.

I would like to be proven wrong here.

[fandango]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/what-is-formula-one-709302.html

"In F1, events are held at circuits across the world with right and left turns, ...." :rotflmao:

[AndyL]

You do not need mountains to get an exciting track with elevation changes.
The Glen is in hilly country and has elevation changes. Elkhart has some good elevation changes and there aren't mountains there. S. Jovite is in the Laurentians but not on a mountainside. Laguna has the infamous corkscrew. My old home track of Mosport has elevation changes on most corners (1,2,3,4,& 8). 2 is famous for its drop and 4 (the Chute) also drops like a stone and then goes abrubtly uphill after the stream into 5 (Moss). It in no way resembles mountains! St. Croix uses the valley banks of the St Lawrence River for elevation changes not far from Quebec City.

To add another example: Lincolnshire is one of the flattest counties in England, which is far from a mountainous country to start with, but no-one ever accuses Cadwell Park of being too flat.
http://image.superstreetbike.com/f/8850752/0712_sbkp_01_z+johnny_rea_honda_cbr1000rr+mountain _jump.jpg

[markabilly]

why did this thread get moved?

It ain't about Vegas or New York SPECULATION, but an apparent deal that has been struck.

Put it back.

Austin Texas has too much class to be associated with either place

[markabilly]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20100525/car-f1-austin/

"Austin city officials and Texas Comptroller Susan Combs helped promoters pitch the location. Hellmund said the facility would be privately financed and will not use public money"

I'd like to know if private money has an alias.

But I found this interesting.

"In 2007, Ecclestone made fans angry when he said Formula One didn't need an American race, even though the U.S. Grand Prix consistently drew one of the biggest crowds on the circuit, attracting about 125,000 fans each year."

Of course I don't usually get racing news from HuffPo.


It says will be built within ten miles of the austin airport---from looking at a map on google, my suspicion is that it will be built on the flat side to the east, not the hilly side on the west.... :(

[UltimateDanGTR]

F1 in texas? all new track? so expect..

2. long straights
3. tight turns

If this happens though, I'll be very happy at the return of the US GP. a boring track in the United states is better than a boring track in say korea.

However, this could turn into another donnington, so until I see the track actually constructed I will not be confident of this happening.

[DexDexter]

"In F1, events are held at circuits across the world with right and left turns, ...." :rotflmao:

Americans never cease to amaze me. Why not: "the cars have four wheels". :D

[Tazio]

Americans never cease to amaze me. Why not: "the cars have four wheels". :D Am I correct that assuming that you think because a hastily written story in a local fishwrap to explain to some citizens what the meaning of what their area justb was endowed withis representative of American F1 Fans?
That is rich!
There is that smell again!
The smell of sour grapes in the morning
It smells like victory! :)

[Tazio]

why did this thread get moved?

It ain't about Vegas or New York SPECULATION, but an apparent deal that has been struck.

Put it back.

Austin Texas has too much class to be associated with either place

I suggested the merger! It was a necessity. As for the last part of your post;
Amen brother :up:
(And that definitely includes Vegas)

[Big Ben]

Americans never cease to amaze me. Why not: "the cars have four wheels". :D

I thought that was sort of self-irony... but maybe I´m wrong... I didn´t really read the article.

[edv]

The area west of town DOES look promising, as far as elevation changes are concerned.
One article in the Austin papers suggested that they had been looking at the area of east Austin at the intersection of Toll Rd 130 and State Hwy 290...pretty flat. And no rich people living there either.

BTW since when are 'mountains' needed for racing?

[anthonyvop]

And no rich people living there either.

No track will be built near rich people.

[keysersoze]

Americans never cease to amaze me. Why not: "the cars have four wheels". :D

some of us are pretty fu@king amazing . . . but intolerant. You are more than welcome to perform the anatomically impossible. :s mokin:

[Jag_Warrior]

I've heard that Austin is a decent place. I've never been there, so I'll reserve comment. But this does seem like an odd choice, IMO.

[HoustonCartFan]

Looking at the comments here it looks like a lot of people here have many ill informed misconceptions about Texas. TV and movies are not typically accurate. I don't think New York is full of muggers or LA is a constant gangland. Most people here have no concept of Austin or Texas. It is a very international state and the strongest economy in the US. If there was any place in the US to host it is most likely here. If you are jealous then get over it.

Otherwise if you come to Austin you will have a good time. Why do you think all the music industry comes once a year for SXSW? It is a fun place. (and lots of good looking women)

And to the person who said it was the "heart of NASCAR country", you made me laugh. The last time I looked it is not very close to North Carolina... or as most people here call it, "the heart of NASCAR country".

Now if you will excuse me I have to put my cowboy hat and boots on so I can ride my horse over to the saloon.

[call_me_andrew]

I met a girl from Austin once. She was one of the "Austin is so much better than this place," types.

... Bitch


Americans never cease to amaze me. Why not: "the cars have four wheels". :D

http://www.historicracing.com/gallery/1977%20Tyrrell%20P34.jpg

[dash]

IMO, it is a play to get more money from another bidding host with a more manageable plan/timeline (Indy?)

If it's the real deal, and they build an entertaining track, I'm all for it and will consider making the trip. However, if it's another craptacular Tilke design. I couldn't care less.

[call_me_andrew]

Well, Yahoo thinks highly of Austin.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/10-best-cities-for-the-next-decade

[e2mtt]

Well, it is going to be a Tilke track:

F1: Tilke Designing $200m Austin Track http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-tilke-designing-200m-austin-track/

From the article "The German has been asked to create a fast circuit with challenging corners that resemble those of classic established circuits such as Silverstone, Hockenheim and Spa. It will be over three miles in length."

According to this article, the land is already purchased & initial building permissions secured. No map yet though...

[markabilly]

Well, it is going to be a Tilke track:

F1: Tilke Designing $200m Austin Track http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-tilke-designing-200m-austin-track/

From the article "The German has been asked to create a fast circuit with challenging corners that resemble those of classic established circuits such as Silverstone, Hockenheim and Spa. It will be over three miles in length."

According to this article, the land is already purchased & initial building permissions secured. No map yet though...
oh, well, for a few brief moments in time, I had visions of another seca type track, winding through the hill country west of austin......and NOT another Dubai... :(

[Tazio]

oh, well, for a few brief moments in time, I had visions of another seca type track, winding through the hill country west of austin......and NOT another Dubai... :( last time I checked Dubai was a flat track. (at least built on)
It is said to be in hilly countryside that has provided Tilke with a good starting point for a design./

It will be over three miles in length. I don't like your attitude "Mr Texas Road Bike Legend" ;)
Perhaps between you and Tavo, Tilke can be kept on a short leash on this one! :burnout:

[UltimateDanGTR]

lets hope the track design is good and is interesting like the promoters requested.

track quality as priority number 1 please, that's the american way.

[markabilly]

last time I checked Dubai was a flat track. (at least built on) I don't like your attitude "Mr Texas Road Bike Legend" ;)
Perhaps between you and Tavo, Tilke can be kept on a short leash on this one! :burnout:
if they are going to build it on FLAT land to the east, I don't like their attitude

just wished I could live in the area around Seca...

as to road bike legends, I aint one of them, but there is colin edwards, kevin schwantz, ben spies, and many others, even Nicky Hayden learned to road race at a little place called oak hill texas

[e2mtt]

"resemble those of classic established circuits such as Silverstone, Hockenheim and Spa" is a bit of an odd way to describe a track. Silverstone is fast & has some great corners, but very flat. Hockenheim is crowded, slow, & lousy. Spa is hilly, fast, classic, & awesome.

Can we hope for some fast kinks like Silverstone, a Eau Rouge copy-corner, a loooong straight like classic Hockenheim, plus something distinctive and unique to this track? Nah, probably dreaming.

[Tazio]

if they are going to build it on FLAT land to the east, I don't like their attitude

just wished I could live in the area around Seca...

as to road bike legends, I aint one of them, but there is colin edwards, kevin schwantz, ben spies, and many others, even Nicky Hayden learned to road race at a little place called oak hill texasSeriously Billy Bob is this quote from the same article you quoted B.S. I don't know!
In fact I do know that in the arena of F1 Speed TV have been taken in by other charlatans
In fact I contend to this day they were in collusion with Pee Wee on the whole USF1 "shooting match"
(However I am on record on another forum) ;)


It is said to be in hilly countryside that has provided Tilke with a good starting point for a design.
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/artic...-austin-track/

[airshifter]

"resemble those of classic established circuits such as Silverstone, Hockenheim and Spa" is a bit of an odd way to describe a track. Silverstone is fast & has some great corners, but very flat. Hockenheim is crowded, slow, & lousy. Spa is hilly, fast, classic, & awesome.

Can we hope for some fast kinks like Silverstone, a Eau Rouge copy-corner, a loooong straight like classic Hockenheim, plus something distinctive and unique to this track? Nah, probably dreaming.

I just hope it ends up having something unique, and at least some elevation changes. Though it would be fairly easy IMHO to make a "new" Silverstone, I don't think we will again see a track like Hockenheim or Spa.

But we can hope for one. :s mokin:



As for the general stereotypes and thoughts on the track... if it's built they will come. Though I hated Indy I was ready to head up in the next year or so until Tiregate ruined that thought. I won't make the same mistake again this time around.

[markabilly]

It is said to be in hilly countryside that has provided Tilke with a good starting point for a design.

MAY IT BE MORE THAN INSPIRATION

[call_me_andrew]

Someone must like Tilke's work, or no one would pay him a dime. I just can't figure out who this person is.

[DexDexter]

Someone must like Tilke's work, or no one would pay him a dime. I just can't figure out who this person is.

What's wrong with Turkey? One of the best tracks on the calendar.

[Sonic]

What's wrong with Turkey? One of the best tracks on the calendar.

One out of a dozen is hardly a good record! I too like Turkey but then it is more like a classic track with a ribbon of tarmac winding through natural hills.

[AndyL]

Someone must like Tilke's work, or no one would pay him a dime. I just can't figure out who this person is.

I think his initials are BE.

[call_me_andrew]

What's wrong with Turkey? One of the best tracks on the calendar.

That's called an accident.

[DexDexter]

That's called an accident.

I think one factor that makes those Tilke-dromes seem so boring is the huge run-off areas which are of course necessary but do not create an impression of speed on TV like in Suzuka, for example.

[ShiftingGears]

I think one factor that makes those Tilke-dromes seem so boring is the huge run-off areas which are of course necessary but do not create an impression of speed on TV like in Suzuka, for example.

Absolutely. They don't give an impression of challenge, like Suzuka or Monaco either.

[djparky]

I think one factor that makes those Tilke-dromes seem so boring is the huge run-off areas which are of course necessary but do not create an impression of speed on TV like in Suzuka, for example.

and they more or less all look alike (except Istanbul) and are all utterly soulless

and with India and Korea also Tilke- bore-a-dromes on the calendar almost half of the series will be on his ghastly tracks

[christophulus]

Positive noises from the circuit owners (well, they would be optimistic, but still..)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85287


Hellmund said that final details of the location of the track will be released imminently, and that the actual layout should be made public in the next few weeks. He said he was excited by what he had seen from the plans, being put together by F1 circuit designer Hermann Tilke.


"It is going to have a really fast section, which will have some pretty challenging corners," he said. "I am partial to a couple of sections that I've seen at Silverstone, so you could see those turn up too.


"There is also going to be significant elevation – probably more than 100 feet of difference from top to bottom. There will be pretty views, and I think it will be a bit of a departure from the tracks that have been built recently for F1. So, in that regard, I am excited.


Can't wait to see the plans. And then see if it comes to fruition..

[call_me_andrew]

We've got a rumored location now.

http://www.statesman.com/business/770105.html

How did we miss this? I looked at this site on Google Maps a few months ago and thought, "This would be a good site." I even drew a concept track.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/austin.png

For reference, this track would be 3.59 miles (5.777 kilometers) long and would run counter-clockwise.

If you want to draw your own, use the coordinates +30° 8' 27.50", -97° 38' 4.24"

[Roamy]

nice thing about Austin is there are no zoning laws - they can build the track anywhere

[Dave B]

The track is going to be near the airport, apparently:


Unites States Grand Prix organisers have confirmed that their new track will be located to the south east of the city, near Austin's international airport, after revealing the backers of the event for the first time.

In a press conference held in Austin on Tuesday, promoter Tavo Hellmund confirmed that well-known American businessman Red McCombs will help bankroll the race, which will take place in an area formerly known as Wandering Creek.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85604

[Mia 01]

When shall the track be ready to racing.

[Blancvino]

When shall the track be ready to racing.

I say, never.

[ykiki]

The Good: Wealthy investor revealed.
The Bad: Needs to be ready in less than 2 years and construction has yet to begin.
The Ugly: Wealthy investor trusting a "just believe in us" management team with an impending deadline looming. This didn't work out too well for USF1.

[christophulus]

I can't see Bernie letting this one fail, he's been banging on about a US GP for years. It'll happen.

Disclaimer: although I did say the same thing about Donington..

[Mia 01]

How much kkk in investment and no sure return?

[AndyL]

I can't see Bernie letting this one fail, he's been banging on about a US GP for years. It'll happen.

Disclaimer: although I did say the same thing about Donington..

:D I agree with you, I think it will definitely happen about 3 weeks after the British GP at Donington ;)

[Dave B]

How much kkk in investment and no sure return?
Note to self: don't skim-read in case you wrongly think the hooded racists are involved :p

[stephenw_us]

I say, never.

Yeah - the well funded and well planned permanent road course Bernie backed USGP is never going to happen and all during the USF1 ponzi scheme we were un-American for suggesting that the team was a joke from day one....

Maybe you can talk Bernie into dropping the fee ala Monaco and get the boys to run the motogp circuit...and you can have another event with empty seats to claim is the best in the world....after all, who would claim the honda 500 is anything but the greatest spectacle?

The emperor has no clothes...been prancing around naked since 1996....enjoy your deep fried pork fat...

[Sonic]

I really hope this works but I'm seeing similar holes in the project to the Donny debacle; the funding (whilst appearing generous) is considerably short of the amounts spent on Korea's new track, we don't even have a track design yet (at least in public) and the clock isn't exactly going to wait for them and as has already been said there is an uncomfortable similarity to USF1 - plenty of press releases but no substance as yet.

[nigelred5]

Hmm, lots of cheap labor and land for construction in Texas, at least compared to this area. I'll be curious to see how Tilke puts his typical locally themed flair on the architechture for the track, I'm thinkin maybe barn boards and corrugated tin. F1 Honky-Tonk style! LOL. kiddin. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another TWS.

It's unfortunate they are building in the flatlands east of Austin and not in the hills. I'm sure they'll kill it from the start with ungodly heat by tying it into the June race date for Montreal, but I'd love to see it fall around Oktoberfest. I'm sure we'll at least get in a good trip to New Braunfels. At least I'll have free accomodations with family if it does ever get built.

[call_me_andrew]

Yeah - the well funded and well planned permanent road course Bernie backed USGP is never going to happen and all during the USF1 ponzi scheme we were un-American for suggesting that the team was a joke from day one....

Maybe you can talk Bernie into dropping the fee ala Monaco and get the boys to run the motogp circuit...and you can have another event with empty seats to claim is the best in the world....after all, who would claim the honda 500 is anything but the greatest spectacle?

The emperor has no clothes...been prancing around naked since 1996....enjoy your deep fried pork fat...

WTF are you talking about?

What does Tony George (or IMS for that matter) have to do with with USF1, and what does USF1 have to do with Austin?

[Tazio]

How much kkk in investment and no sure return? :rotflmao:



Yeah - the well funded and well planned permanent road course Bernie backed USGP is never going to happen and all during the USF1 ponzi scheme we were un-American for suggesting that the team was a joke from day one....

Maybe you can talk Bernie into dropping the fee ala Monaco and get the boys to run the motogp circuit...and you can have another event with empty seats to claim is the best in the world....after all, who would claim the honda 500 is anything but the greatest spectacle?

The emperor has no clothes...been prancing around naked since 1996....enjoy your deep fried pork fat...
:rolleyes: :confused:

[Mia 01]

The work is schedule to begin this autumm, I will follow this, but I´m not a beliver.

[markabilly]

Yeah - the well funded and well planned permanent road course Bernie backed USGP is never going to happen and all during the USF1 ponzi scheme we were un-American for suggesting that the team was a joke from day one....

Maybe you can talk Bernie into dropping the fee ala Monaco and get the boys to run the motogp circuit...and you can have another event with empty seats to claim is the best in the world....after all, who would claim the honda 500 is anything but the greatest spectacle?

The emperor has no clothes...been prancing around naked since 1996....enjoy your deep fried pork fat...
well u may be right or you may be wrong....

My thought/concern is that Texas has never had a road racing track or series of races that has been successful over more than a very few years, as in one or two.

The closest was a CART road/street race in Houston for 4 or 5 years, which had mixed success..and one of the major specataotr draws was from Brazil, just like the Indy race and JPM, ..

A few years earlier there were attempts at some raod racing in Dallas (including a F1 race) but all died from lack of attendance

Another thing is that it might have been better to have built the track next to Houston or Dallas, given the massively far larger population base as well as the airports (both Houston and Dallas have two major airports, and all four of these airports dwarf the Austin airport) and provide far better better service, esp for international travel, and the number of hotels, motels and notels, far exceed Austin.

a 100,000 people showing up from all over the world, would not be that big of a deal in Dallas or Houston for rooms, but Austin will have issues....so if you are going, better book early.

Much like Laguana seca races for motogp and superbike....what has stopped me from going the last two years, is the lack of rooms and pricing of places (beginning at $250 plus per night for a dumpy place than makes Motel 6 look like the Grand Palace???)to stay within 70 miles of the track----if you can even find a room

The TMS track, close to both dallas and fort worth, seems to have done well for oval track racing.

Bottom line, I think it will be built, for sure, unless the city zoning people stop it or some big investor goes kaput as a result of the economy....(as this is in the extra-territorial jursidiction of Austin), but the bigger question is survival, given the f1 race at indy, and how long it lasted---or did not last.

OTOH, Austin is a far far far better place to visit than dallas or Houston for atmosphere and fun.....

[markabilly]

Hmm, lots of cheap labor and land for construction in Texas, at least compared to this area. I'll be curious to see how Tilke puts his typical locally themed flair on the architechture for the track, I'm thinkin maybe barn boards and corrugated tin. F1 Honky-Tonk style! LOL. kiddin. Hopefully it doesn't turn into another TWS.

It's unfortunate they are building in the flatlands east of Austin and not in the hills. I'm sure they'll kill it from the start with ungodly heat by tying it into the June race date for Montreal, but I'd love to see it fall around Oktoberfest. I'm sure we'll at least get in a good trip to New Braunfels. At least I'll have free accomodations with family if it does ever get built.
I agree.

But it think it will probably get built...esp given the money from the government fund.....I never thought the USF1 was a real deal....

[UltimateDanGTR]

We have a track layout people:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/09/01/austin-reveals-track-for-2012-f1-race/austinf1track/

Interesting. a lot of 'tilkeishness' about it, but combined with some good looking esses and what looks like a replica of turn 8 at instanbul, only by the looks of it that corner will be taken the other way round to turn 8.

thoughts?

[SGWilko]

thoughts?

On paper - it looks like it could be good. Some good direction changes a la silverstone, long overall track a la Spa, long straight with tight corner at the end.

Good, technical track.

[I am evil Homer]

I really hope this works but I'm seeing similar holes in the project to the Donny debacle; the funding (whilst appearing generous) is considerably short of the amounts spent on Korea's new track, we don't even have a track design yet (at least in public) and the clock isn't exactly going to wait for them and as has already been said there is an uncomfortable similarity to USF1 - plenty of press releases but no substance as yet.

Donny's biggest problem was it didn;t plan well enough. So it sort of assumed it could use other people's land for things like car parking...and we all know assumption is the mother of all F*ck ups. So really it was a disaster of their own making, which pushed back the work and they missed the deadline.

Quite aside from them beign used a pawns by Bernie to get BRDC to upgrade Silverstone...

[Dr. Krogshöj]

It looks good but I'd cut out the mickey mouse stadium section. I read the track will feature 133 feet of elevation change which is good. What Hellmund needs to take care is the environment and appearance of the track. It has to feature a lot of trees, grass etc.

[christophulus]

Wow, looks good. Plenty of elevation and a few decent overtaking spots.

Now all they have to do is build it :)

Edit: Autosport has a map showing the elevation changes http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86304

[Mia 01]

Everything is big in Texas, even their dreams.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Wow, looks good. Plenty of elevation and a few decent overtaking spots.

Now all they have to do is build it :)

Edit: Autosport has a map showing the elevation changes http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86304

wow nice picture. the first, second and penultimate corners look particularly enticing like that, but those esses dont have the elevation changes I'd like to see. still we cant have everything

[Dave B]

Wow, looks good. Plenty of elevation and a few decent overtaking spots.

Now all they have to do is build it :)

Edit: Autosport has a map showing the elevation changes http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86304
Inclines, and not just up but down as well :D

[Retro Formula 1]

First corner looks to be fun with tyres unloading over the crest and snaggy cold brakes. Bit like going up Radillon into a revers Paddock Hill Bend but much tighter. What could really make this corner is the camber but Herman will probably bank it positive instead of scaring the bejezus out of the drivers.

2 to 10 is some fast sweepers into a technical switchback that may allow a smart exit and possible overtake downhill into 11.

Then a blind crest into 12 and another Mickey Mouse section before building up into the last few corners and positioning for the last corner and a possible overtake down the start finish with the last of the heros late breaking into 1 again.

Couple of 190+ into hairpins and a couple of 180+ into fast corners could be interesting.

Nice undulation and could be a good track. Now all we need is for Tilke to cock it up.

[inimitablestoo]

Impressive. My immediate thought was someone's had a look at Bathurst and relaid it in a more random order.

Not the sort of track to be getting a bad getaway from the start though, looking at the run-up to that first corner :eek:

[Sonic]

Proper bo! :eek:

Now thats a track. :D

First turn reminds me of A1 ring which whilst given a great deal of stick always provided great racing.

The Sweeps after the first two turns are very Suzuka/Silverstone-ish and then the standard Tilke straight.

If it gets built (please. Please. PLEASEEE!!) then I would imagine it would jump to the top of my fave Tilke tracks.

[DazzlaF1]

We have a track layout people:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/09/01/austin-reveals-track-for-2012-f1-race/austinf1track/

Interesting. a lot of 'tilkeishness' about it, but combined with some good looking esses and what looks like a replica of turn 8 at instanbul, only by the looks of it that corner will be taken the other way round to turn 8.

thoughts?

Very very impressive, I LIKES IT!!!! And also a few corners there that remind me of a few famous ones

TURN 1: A huge incline with a blind turn at the summit, a timely reminder of Hella-Licht on the old osterreichring

TURNS 3,4 & 5: Fast flowing "esses" section, not desimilar to the Maggots & Becketts complex at Silverstone

TURN 16: Just like "Turn 8" in Istanbul only this one according to the pic looks like its a quadruple apex corner and a bit more open.

This is very very unlike any of the other "Tilkedromes" he has designed in the past, this one could well be his very best in terms of providing a challenge for the drivers as well as producing great racing.

[markabilly]

:rolleyes: looks like a mickey mouse imitation of parts of his prior tracks and parts of some existing tracks.....if he was going to imitate Seca, he should have done it right, instead he has a hairpin at the the top of the hill, and close to a straight shot down. :rolleyes:

Nothing unique here, nothing at all. :down:

And forget the off-camber stuff that made Seca a challenge. He will not be doing that, and even at Seca, they have done away with much of that anyway, so as to make the track better (ie easier for whiners)

[call_me_andrew]

It's not as good as I expected, but it doesn't suck. It's not hard to see the hand of Tilke in this.

[gloomyDAY]

:rolleyes: looks like a mickey mouse imitation of parts of his prior tracks and parts of some existing tracks.....if he was going to imitate Seca, he should have done it right, instead he has a hairpin at the the top of the hill, and close to a straight shot down. :rolleyes:

Nothing unique here, nothing at all. :down:

And forget the off-camber stuff that made Seca a challenge. He will not be doing that, and even at Seca, they have done away with much of that anyway, so as to make the track better (ie easier for whiners)Dude, you're such a downer. This is a lot better than Indy and F1 will have a stable home in America for the next 10 years. The track doesn't look all that bad and I think this track will be more enjoyable than any of the new F1 tracks.

[ShiftingGears]

It's not as good as I expected, but it doesn't suck. It's not hard to see the hand of Tilke in this.

Yep.

[markabilly]

Dude, you're such a downer. This is a lot better than Indy and F1 will have a stable home in America for the next 10 years. The track doesn't look all that bad and I think this track will be more enjoyable than any of the new F1 tracks.
he really wants to make it challenging, do a corkscrew and some major off-camber, decreasing radius corners like seca----

or something like turns one and two at seca, before they made it "better".

For three fourths of that series, you can go so very much faster and have plenty of traction left, but if you did, the last little bit, left you sliding in the dirt

as to Indy, the only thing i liked about indy, was the long front straight and then turn one and two......plenty of shots at passing

[wedge]

Am I dreaming?

A tilkdrome to die for?


he really wants to make it challenging, do a corkscrew and some major off-camber, decreasing radius corners like seca----

There needs to be more corners that test car and driver today like the downhill quad-apex T8 in Turkey.

Can't help thinking we need another Signes/130R but off camber.

[ShiftingGears]

Am I dreaming?

A tilkdrome to die for?



There needs to be more corners that test car and driver today like the downhill quad-apex T8 in Turkey.

Can't help thinking we need another Signes/130R but off camber.

Should've replaced that cut-and-paste Hockenheim stadium section with some Signes equivalent.

[Ranger]

This would be better. :D

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/gumby013/20057573_622158_530233c.jpg

Courtesy of PF1 forum.

[Ranger]

http://i55.tinypic.com/jtnuw2.jpg

:p :

[call_me_andrew]

I think the second edit would slow down the high speed turn and spoil the fun.

I am glad that the track is meant to run counter-clockwise.

[UltimateDanGTR]

This would be better. :D

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/gumby013/20057573_622158_530233c.jpg

Courtesy of PF1 forum.

i wouldnt change the penultimate corner at all-the picture featuring the elvation changes showed this as a downhill sweep which looks like fun.

as for the other section cutting out the twisty bit, it looks fun but I can understand why the 'mickey mouse' section is there-it definatly adds something else to the track which otherwise is a combination of sweepers and point and squirt.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Am I dreaming?

A tilkdrome to die for?



It all depends on what the customer asks for, doesn't it? It seems Tavo was very specific about what he wanted.

[nigelred5]

I think you take that stadium section and re-locate it to the area where the track devides into two and just bypass it as in the last picture, however I wouldn't want to loose the high speed nature of a right hand version of Turkey's turn 8.

[Tazio]

Latest release from Full Throttle:

I have to ask The Britt’s that are in the know if "Graham Lake–Grange" is a great asset, as I've heard what a challenge getting in and out of Silverstone is?

It starting to look like this thing may actually happen! :crazy:


According to a statement released by Full Throttle, Kimley-Horn "brings tremendous experience to the project having developed traffic management plans for Texas Motor Speedway, the new Cowboys Stadium, Lone Star Park and Houston's Dynamo Park. Graham Lake–Grange, based in the U.K., has developed successful traffic management plans for 13 F1 Grand Prix events at Silverstone [in the U.K.] as well as over 100 large-scale public events."Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100921/F1/100929967#ixzz10DseUIYN

[gloomyDAY]

Construction has commenced...

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-groundbreaking-starts-on-austin-site/

[OMRCdeme]

Construction has commenced...

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-groundbreaking-starts-on-austin-site/

Good. Let's hope construction goes to a better schedule than Yeognam.....

[markabilly]

and it is, with a very big, high quality construction firm.....

now if that big sweeping turn (#2?) going down from the top of the hill, were to suddenly starting going off camber with a decreasing radius at the end....that might be a challenge, of truly passing someone less brave at the beginning of the sweep, but then having to walk a tightrope at the end to avoid being stuck in the dirt

[Dave B]

If you've got a couple of minutes spare there's a video report from the construction site in Austin on CNN.com

( :!: Warning, make sure you have an ad-blocker. When I viewed it, a picture of Piers Morgan came up and I nearly punched a perfectly good monitor)

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/2011/05/08/mckay.texas.formula.one.cnn?iref=allsearch

[SGWilko]

( :!: Warning, make sure you have an ad-blocker. When I viewed it, a picture of Piers Morgan came up and I nearly punched a perfectly good monitor)

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/2011/05/08/mckay.texas.formula.one.cnn?iref=allsearch

I hope you are not too traumatised - no one should suffer such attrocities!!!