WilliamsF1

[ShiftingGears]

...Looks like a team thats collapsing.

[Mia 01]

The crew seems angry at each other.

[Hawkmoon]

Who's the guy with the pony tail that was having words with Sam Michael? He seemed mildly annoyed.

[Sonic]

...Looks like a team thats collapsing.

:(

The decline continues. Only thanks to the new point system do they have anything to fight for.

I find it staggering that such an experienced team could (according to Rubens) screw up their updates! Force India are proof that small budget and limited facilities does not automatically equal back of the pack, so what is going on at Williams?

[DexDexter]

:(

The decline continues. Only thanks to the new point system do they have anything to fight for.

I find it staggering that such an experienced team could (according to Rubens) screw up their updates! Force India are proof that small budget and limited facilities does not automatically equal back of the pack, so what is going on at Williams?

There is nothing staggering about it, it has happened to Mclaren, Ferrari not to mention Toyota. It's difficult, it's not about experience. What is going on at Williams? An engine that is not up to par, that's what's going on.

[Sonic]

There is nothing staggering about it, it has happened to Mclaren, Ferrari not to mention Toyota. It's difficult, it's not about experience. What is going on at Williams? An engine that is not up to par, that's what's going on.

Yes, but this isn't the first time in recent years that Williams have gone the wrong eway with design/development - they seem rudderless atm.

As for the cossie - it is reportedly on par with the toyota it replaced which was always said to be worth about 0.3s loss to the top units. Williams have a hell of a lot more than that to find.

*sigh*

[christophulus]

Sadly yes, they're struggling yet again. I reckon they've got the smallest budget of the existing teams, but they were closer to the pace at the start of last year than this. New blood is needed in my opinion.

[Sleeper]

There updates didnt work, but bizzarly it was the best race for the car all year, Rubens seemed competative in a car that hasnt been updated much since Bahrain (the updates were removed for qualy and the race).

Here's a theory, Williams are introducing their updates over several races (Spain, Monaco and Turkey), maybe the new ones just dont work well with the old parts, so we'll have to wait until Turkey to see whether they really are lacking talent in the aero department or what.

[gloomyDAY]

Time for a management shake-up?

Bernie is probably upset over his investment in Williams.

[DexDexter]

Time for a management shake-up?

Bernie is probably upset over his investment in Williams.

The management is Frank and Patrick, you can't change that...

[shazbot]

I think a shake up below Frank an Patrick might be order. What good has Sam Michaels actually done? Williams haven't been a true force since 1997. There was a glimmer of hope in the later BMW years, but some odd personel changes at that critical time in the aero dept helped screw things up.

[Mia 01]

It seems both cars ended the race with mechanical failures. Brakes?

It´s a little sad to se the cars race thoose days.

[christophulus]

Hulkenberg had a clutch problem that dropped him to the back of the grid, then a possible front wing failure. Barrichello was doing OK but it looks like he hit a drain cover and broke the rear suspension.

All in all a pretty lousy day on one of the few tracks they should've done well on..

[gloomyDAY]

Any ideas, rumors, etc. on who's dropping the ball?

I'm not too familiar with the managerial make-up of Williams at the present time. I'd like someone to fill me in on the team.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Rear suspension failure for Rubens, clutch failure for the Hulk, then he hit a Hispania and damaged the front wing.

One factor not to be underestimated when assessing the troubles of Williams is the engine. Cosworth seem to have a couple of unexpected problems.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83655

[steveaki13]

Shame to see the team struggling so much, only 8 points and only ahead of 3 new teams, a poor Sauber and Toro Rosso, and 22 points off next team Force India.

[DexDexter]

Shame to see the team struggling so much, only 8 points and only ahead of 3 new teams, a poor Sauber and Toro Rosso, and 22 points off next team Force India.

I don't know what you guys expected from them? They have a non-manufacturer customer engine, they lost their star driver and have an average budget. Considering that they are pretty close to the front.

[ioan]

Any ideas, rumors, etc. on who's dropping the ball?

I'm not too familiar with the managerial make-up of Williams at the present time. I'd like someone to fill me in on the team.

That guy named Sam Michael is the one who needs a slap.

[Sonic]

That guy named Sam Michael is the one who needs a slap.

He certainly hasn't filled the Patrick Head shaped void in the team.

[Koz]

I don't know what you guys expected from them? They have a non-manufacturer customer engine, they lost their star driver and have an average budget. Considering that they are pretty close to the front.

They lost their star driver 6 years ago. And they have been uncompetitive for what 7 years?
Or should I say 13 since back in the JV days?
[edit]...or maybe that was the Adrian Newey days?

Williams is also a moron for going with the Cosworth, surely he could have manager a Renault deal?

[DexDexter]

They lost their star driver 6 years ago. And they have been uncompetitive for what 7 years?
Or should I say 13 since back in the JV days?
[edit]...or maybe that was the Adrian Newey days?

Williams is also a moron for going with the Cosworth, surely he could have manager a Renault deal?

Nico Rosberg did an excellent job for them over the last three years. I agree with you about the engine, it was just plain stupid to go with Cosworth IF something else was available.

[CNR]

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/17592.html



Although it is a rule drivers must re-connect the steering wheel after abandoning a stricken car, Barrichello insisted there were mitigating circumstances. "I threw the steering wheel because I wanted to get out of the car as soon as possible," he said. "After the shunt I was facing the wrong side of the track and the car was on fire."

[fandango]

In the program at Barcelona there was a feature article on the classic Williams FW07. Nostalgia seems to be all that's left for the team now, they're just not in the same league anymore, like Tyrrell in the 80s and 90s.....

[Mia 01]

Next thing up is that they will have to fight with Lotus for a spot in Q2.

[Koz]

Next thing up is that they will have to fight with Lotus for a spot in Q2.

Oh wait, that's already happened!

[Mia 01]

Nico Rosberg did an excellent job for them over the last three years. I agree with you about the engine, it was just plain stupid to go with Cosworth IF something else was available.

Not.

[Mia 01]

Oh wait, that's already happened!
Really?

[jens]

That Williams' problems are much deeper than simply funding (or the lack of it), is clearly indicated by the fact that even Sauber, who is now racing on a shoestring, is gradually moving ahead of Williams in the pecking order.

[DexDexter]

That Williams' problems are much deeper than simply funding (or the lack of it), is clearly indicated by the fact that even Sauber, who is now racing on a shoestring, is gradually moving ahead of Williams in the pecking order.

I agree, IMO the word Cosworth has something do with it.

[jens]

I agree, IMO the word Cosworth has something do with it.

Problems are deeper than Cosworth too and I actually haven't heard Williams complaining much about them. At this rate of development Lotus is going to catch Williams and they have the same engine!

Williams has a bad tendency of losing talented engineers - Newey is the most famous example, but there are more than that. Recently I found out that guys like Bigois and Zander were part of the team in designing the 2006 Williams car before leaving. And as we remember, that car was really fast in the first half of that season.

[christophulus]

It's a shame, I was very optimistic about this season with the decent (on paper) driver line up and the speed they showed last year. They've recently announced that they made a small profit last year, so they're not in any major trouble, but I just wonder how long they're willing to make up the numbers.

[ioan]

It's a shame, I was very optimistic about this season with the decent (on paper) driver line up and the speed they showed last year. They've recently announced that they made a small profit last year, so they're not in any major trouble, but I just wonder how long they're willing to make up the numbers.

Knowing that they will run Cosworth engines should have been enough to dampen any expectations.

[ratonmacias]

if you compare their best qualy lap at turkey they are almost a second slower this year while mclaren are more than 1.5 seconds faster this year.

check this out:

2009 2010 dif
rbr 87.016 86.295 -0.721
mcl 88.199 86.433 -1.766
brawn 87.230 86.857 -0.373
ferrari 87.349 87.082 -0.267
renault 87.473 87.039 -0.434
fi 88.278 87.525 -0.753
bmw 87.455 87.434 -0.021
williams 87.418 88.227 +0.809

williams is fading quicker than jarno on his toyota circa 2009

[DexDexter]

Knowing that they will run Cosworth engines should have been enough to dampen any expectations.

True, I don't understand why people are surprised. Customer engines, a rookie, not a great budget. If Williams was doing well, there would be something wrong with F1.

[Sonic]

if you compare their best qualy lap at turkey they are almost a second slower this year while mclaren are more than 1.5 seconds faster this year.

check this out:

2009 2010 dif
rbr 87.016 86.295 -0.721
mcl 88.199 86.433 -1.766
brawn 87.230 86.857 -0.373
ferrari 87.349 87.082 -0.267
renault 87.473 87.039 -0.434
fi 88.278 87.525 -0.753
bmw 87.455 87.434 -0.021
williams 87.418 88.227 +0.809



*stunned*

If this is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) Williams should collectively hang their heads. Such a shame for a once great team :(

[Ranger]

Using last year's points system, the team would have scored one point this year.

Even 2006 was better! :\

[Mia 01]

Ferrari is now falling back to the current level of Williams it seems.

Alonso is leading them.

[Sonic]

Ferrari is now falling back to the current level of Williams it seems.

Alonso is leading them.

LOL Mia. I love what you come out with sometimes! Certainly Ferrari are not firing on al cylonders at the moment but they've won a race and liw third in the championship. Williams are nowhere and really don't seem to be able to turn things around.

I really wonder how long Sir Frank and Patrick will stick it out without success.

[jens]

Ferrari is now falling back to the current level of Williams it seems.

Alonso is leading them.

Yeah, soon all legend-teams will be together at the back. Lotus and Williams are already there, waiting for others to join. :p :

[Saint Devote]

Anyone really knowlegeable about Williams GPE will know that writing off the team is foolhardy to say the least. How many times over the decades has THAT been done.........

The undercurrent of a story persists from gossip in Stuttgart that has seen Williams personnel visiting.

Williams is probably the leader in KERS system technology using its unique flywheel mechanism. It has been branching out into applied tech fields and is more than ready - and happy - about the return of KERS in 2011.

Porsche is returning to racing with hybrid technology and will never again manufacture another racing engine that is not associated with energy recovery or reduced carbon usage.

The story of a Williams-Porsche tie-up as f1 moves towards a turbo-environmental basis and the presence of German driver Hulkenburg is absolutely salivating.

Now imagine if this new technology with Porsche can attract Adrian Newey.....

You were saying that Williams were finished?? HA!!!!

[Ranger]

Anyone really knowlegeable about Williams GPE will know that writing off the team is foolhardy to say the least. How many times over the decades has THAT been done.........

The undercurrent of a story persists from gossip in Stuttgart that has seen Williams personnel visiting.

Williams is probably the leader in KERS system technology using its unique flywheel mechanism. It has been branching out into applied tech fields and is more than ready - and happy - about the return of KERS in 2011.

Porsche is returning to racing with hybrid technology and will never again manufacture another racing engine that is not associated with energy recovery or reduced carbon usage.

The story of a Williams-Porsche tie-up as f1 moves towards a turbo-environmental basis and the presence of German driver Hulkenburg is absolutely salivating.

Now imagine if this new technology with Porsche can attract Adrian Newey.....

You were saying that Williams were finished?? HA!!!!

So Williams is going to make a triumphant return based on paddock gossip.

If only.

[Saint Devote]

So Williams is going to make a triumphant return based on paddock gossip.

If only.

It was paddock gossip at the end of July 2009 that had Alonso going to Ferrari and Kimi to rallying in 2009 :eek:

It was paddock gossip immediately after the Singapore GP in 2008 that had Piquet into the wall deliberately :eek:

Paddock gossip is not at all idle :D

But I do agree, "if only" the Williams story becomes reality :s mokin:

[Ranger]

It was paddock gossip at the end of July 2009 that had Alonso going to Ferrari and Kimi to rallying in 2009 :eek:

It was paddock gossip immediately after the Singapore GP in 2008 that had Piquet into the wall deliberately :eek:

Paddock gossip is not at all idle :D

But I do agree, "if only" the Williams story becomes reality :s mokin:

Despite many Williams 'improvements' that were meant to vault them back to the front since 2005, none have worked.

It is my opinion that only a management change will bring Williams back to the front. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

[jens]

Anyone really knowlegeable about Williams GPE will know that writing off the team is foolhardy to say the least. How many times over the decades has THAT been done.........


I don't know, who and when have written Williams off (and if someone did it in for instance in '04, they have been right for 6 years already), but the reality is that they are now in a worse situation than they have ever been before. Well, since the 70's at least... Even when they had some years with customer engines in the past (88, 98, 99), at that time it was clear that they had managed to get a new works deal (Renault, BMW), so it was obvious they would start rising again. And secondly even during those tough years they usually had a good chassis, just hampered by an underpowered engine.

The bad thing about current Williams is that everything is at best average, so there is no easy fix for a more fruitious future. It seems that sometimes people don't want to see the seriousness of the problems of Williams just because "they have such a great past, the owners know, how to win - it's not possible they have suddenly forgotten it?!" But time moves on and things change. They may have known in the past, how to win, but in order to stay sharp, you always need to keep up with modern demands and improve yourself. I do not feel Williams has done that.

I think this is where we really should applaud Ron Dennis. In the past McLaren used to have worse days than Williams, and their future might not have looked bright. But Ron had a vision about the future status of F1. As a result he managed to build a strong platform for the team to stay competitive in modern F1 on a consistent basis. This is something Williams has failed at.

[christophulus]

Well, two decent races for Williams, right back near the top of Division Two. Fingers crossed it continues!

[DazzlaF1]

Well, two decent races for Williams, right back near the top of Division Two. Fingers crossed it continues!

In my view it is one of the best turnarounds in performance in recent years, coming back from a dismal start, bringing a new upgrade to Valencia (including their own adaptation of the blown diffuser) and it results with 23 points in 2 races, Barrichello claiming two top 5 finishes and on the cusp of the championship's top 10.

Here's hoping their upturn in form continues and hopefully allows Hulkenberg to score some good points, after his start to the season, he deserves a lucky break at some point.