Nationwide congestion charging - take two

[Dave B]

Weeks after 1.8 million people signed an online petition objecting to something which wasn't even planned, the Government have put forward details of an alternative plan which would divide the county up into zones.

The theory is that there'd be no advantage in diverting through a village to avoid a busy and expensive motorway as they'd both be in the same zone.

It also avoids arguements about privacy, as it's now claimed that the system wouldn't know exactly where you are, simply which zone you're in.

There's some more details in today's Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1459230.ece

It's a better solution that before, but it still doesn't address the fundamental problems: we're addicted to using our cars, many of our journeys are forced upon us by our jobs, often there's no viable public transport alternative.

Any thoughts?

[Captain VXR]

I feel another petition wil come soon

[Lousada]

If you can't take another route, how will it help congestion?

[BeansBeansBeans]

If you can't take another route, how will it help congestion?

I think the idea is to make every route equally expensive, so that lots of people give up their cars and take public transport.

[Hazell B]

If you can't take another route, how will it help congestion?

We're knee deep in roads in some parts of the UK and you can always take another route (sometimes five or six!) between major places.

It might be longer, it might be busier, it might be more twisty, but there's an alternative in almost every case I can think of.

We went from East Yorkshire to Cheshire the other day and had a choice of two major road versions or two A roads. The M62 was what most people would have chosen I expect, but we went via smaller roads there and a busier A road home.

[BDunnell]

We're knee deep in roads in some parts of the UK and you can always take another route (sometimes five or six!) between major places.

It might be longer, it might be busier, it might be more twisty, but there's an alternative in almost every case I can think of.

And, as many people (whom I think are too worried about what Jeremy Clarkson might say if he found out) forget, these often include methods of public transport.

[BDunnell]

Weeks after 1.8 million people signed an online petition objecting to something which wasn't even planned...

This was one of the best illustrations I can think of that the majority doesn't always know best. So many people, largely of a right-wing persuasion, in the media started going on about the Government's arrogance and how it should 'listen to the people'. This ignored the fact that very few of these people clearly had any idea about the issue they were expressing an opinion on.

[Captain VXR]

Have you noticed that when a bus lane is added to a busy but not congested road, it suddenly becomes congested? That's what happened and now the govornment are using the bus lane created congestion to tax us :mad:

[Mark]

This was one of the best illustrations I can think of that the majority doesn't always know best.

Typical of current government thinking, 'lets ignore peoples opinions because they are wrong'. Well maybe, just maybe, they aren't wrong.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Typical of current government thinking, 'lets ignore peoples opinions because they are wrong'. Well maybe, just maybe, they aren't wrong.

I agree with you, that people need to be heard. But I also agree with Ben, in that I think many of the signatories probably haven't got a clue what they're petitioning against. The petition was emailed to everyone in my office, and I think I'm the only person who didn't sign it. The majority of people who did sign it, didn't read it, or give any thought to the congestion issue. They just thought 'Yeah, they should stop bashing motorists' and signed it.

[Dave B]

I've seen on another forum that kids below voting and driving age were signing it multiple times under different identities.

I agree with the principal of democatic protest, but to blindly put your name to a glorified chain email - the body of which was full of inaccuracies - just because it bashes the government of the day; well that's just silly.

[BDunnell]

Typical of current government thinking, 'lets ignore peoples opinions because they are wrong'. Well maybe, just maybe, they aren't wrong.

But they were wrong, because there were no real proposals to start with.

[BDunnell]

I agree with you, that people need to be heard. But I also agree with Ben, in that I think many of the signatories probably haven't got a clue what they're petitioning against. The petition was emailed to everyone in my office, and I think I'm the only person who didn't sign it. The majority of people who did sign it, didn't read it, or give any thought to the congestion issue. They just thought 'Yeah, they should stop bashing motorists' and signed it.

Exactly. I find this really sad.

[Mark]

But they were wrong, because there were no real proposals to start with.

The concept of road pricing was very much proposed. Making your views heard early has to be a good thing and it looks like its already influenced government policy.

To say that you shouldn't sign the petition because the government hasn't given out every single detail or that the initial wording is slightly off is just silly IMO.

[BDunnell]

The concept of road pricing was very much proposed. Making your views heard early has to be a good thing and it looks like its already influenced government policy.

To say that you shouldn't sign the petition because the government hasn't given out every single detail or that the initial wording is slightly off is just silly IMO.

This is hardly a justification for signing it. There is no detail to the government's proposals. Everybody who has signed the petition has basically stated that they are against the concept of road pricing no matter how it is worked out, rather than coming to a considered opinion on the issue. This now means that whenever the idea, which has its merits, comes up, any proposals will be dismissed out of hand.

[Dave B]

Have a listen to John Prescott on Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show (via the BBC listen again thingy, it's about an 1h40 in). He actually makes a lot of sense about transport policy.

Congestion, while awful, isn't rising in line with the amount of vehicles on the road. So they must be doing something right, even if its often difficult to tell exactly what.

[Mark]

Everybody who has signed the petition has basically stated that they are against the concept of road pricing no matter how it is worked out

Which is a valid opinion in itself.


Congestion, while awful, isn't rising in line with the amount of vehicles on the road. So they must be doing something right, even if its often difficult to tell exactly what.

The number of vehicles on the road can't continue rising indefinitely, there has to come a point where everyone who wants/needs a car, already has one.

It's a bit like that mobile phone manufacturers didn't realise that once everyone had got one, demand would trail off.

[BDunnell]

Have a listen to John Prescott on Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show (via the BBC listen again thingy, it's about an 1h40 in). He actually makes a lot of sense about transport policy.

Shame he didn't do more when he was actually responsible for transport policy.