British railways to be re-nationalised

[CarlMetro]

Unfortunately though, not to the British government.

Arriva, Britains second largest public transport operator, have agreed a £1.5billion takeover bid from Deutsche Bahn, the German national public transport operator.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm

Perhaps at least we may see an improvement on service but I fail to see how another government should be allowed to manage a considerable part of another company's infrastructure through the back door.

[Ghostwalker]

Unfortunately though, not to the British government.

Arriva, Britains second largest public transport operator, have agreed a £1.5billion takeover bid from Deutsche Bahn, the German national public transport operator.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm

Perhaps at least we may see an improvement on service but I fail to see how another government should be allowed to manage a considerable part of another company's infrastructure through the back door.

its the same in Sweden where the current government want the Swedish equivalent SJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SJ_AB) to have more competitors which usually is Danish, Norwegian and German national railway companies.

But i dont understand why the current Swedish government rather sees that other countries railways/companies earn money instead of their own Swedish railways/companies. Especially not since it usually means that the prices go up.

[fandango]

In principle I agree with you Carl, but on a global scale a comment like that is a bit rich coming from a British person. There must be so many examples of it happening between US and European companies and the third world.

What'll happen when the Chinese take over the Germans? ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

Unfortunately though, not to the British government.

Arriva, Britains second largest public transport operator, have agreed a £1.5billion takeover bid from Deutsche Bahn, the German national public transport operator.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8636503.stm

Perhaps at least we may see an improvement on service but I fail to see how another government should be allowed to manage a considerable part of another company's infrastructure through the back door.

The DfT decide the franchise anyway, so Arriva may be granted less franchises or more franchises, but it can never own them all.

Anyway, Serco NedRail (NedRail more commonly known as Nederlandse Spoorwegen, the Netherlands rail system) operate Merseyrail, the Liverpool suburban system. And DB already have a presence with the purchase of EWS, now renamed to DB Schenker, to handle goods contracts. So it's not a new thing by any means.

[Robinho]

Deutsche Bahn already own/run the Chiltern Railway network and what was EWS freight (now DB Schenker). i gather Arriva are pretty big in Europe already.

[BDunnell]

Full nationalisation, thus creating a proper national rail network rather than the fragmented travesty we have to ensure now, with its endless range of fare options, lack of co-operation between operators and a generally cavalier attitude towards public service, would be one of the best policies any government could ever pursue, not that any of the main parties will ever do so, sadly. The British railways as things stand are a classic example of mixing the worst of private sector customer service with none of the benefits that self-same private sector can bring in terms of competition, because there is no competition. It doesn't work on the railways, as has been proven to the satisfaction of many; indeed, as ought to have been proven to the satisfaction of John Major, whose policy baby this was. He had a romantic notion of returning the railways to what he perceived to be their inter-war heyday, with different operators competing against each other on the same routes. It was unsustainable then and it proved a useless policy when it came to be again in the 1990s. Yet because of Major's misplaced nostalgia (Thatcher had already decided against rail privatisation), we were all lumped with it. I believe it to be the worst policy legacy of the Major years.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Full nationalisation, thus creating a proper national rail network rather than the fragmented travesty we have to ensure now, with its endless range of fare options, lack of co-operation between operators and a generally cavalier attitude towards public service, would be one of the best policies any government could ever pursue, not that any of the main parties will ever do so, sadly. The British railways as things stand are a classic example of mixing the worst of private sector customer service with none of the benefits that self-same private sector can bring in terms of competition, because there is no competition. It doesn't work on the railways, as has been proven to the satisfaction of many; indeed, as ought to have been proven to the satisfaction of John Major, whose policy baby this was. He had a romantic notion of returning the railways to what he perceived to be their inter-war heyday, with different operators competing against each other on the same routes. It was unsustainable then and it proved a useless policy when it came to be again in the 1990s. Yet because of Major's misplaced nostalgia (Thatcher had already decided against rail privatisation), we were all lumped with it. I believe it to be the worst policy legacy of the Major years.

:up:

Amen!

[AndyRAC]

Full nationalisation, thus creating a proper national rail network rather than the fragmented travesty we have to ensure now, with its endless range of fare options, lack of co-operation between operators and a generally cavalier attitude towards public service, would be one of the best policies any government could ever pursue, not that any of the main parties will ever do so, sadly. The British railways as things stand are a classic example of mixing the worst of private sector customer service with none of the benefits that self-same private sector can bring in terms of competition, because there is no competition. It doesn't work on the railways, as has been proven to the satisfaction of many; indeed, as ought to have been proven to the satisfaction of John Major, whose policy baby this was. He had a romantic notion of returning the railways to what he perceived to be their inter-war heyday, with different operators competing against each other on the same routes. It was unsustainable then and it proved a useless policy when it came to be again in the 1990s. Yet because of Major's misplaced nostalgia (Thatcher had already decided against rail privatisation), we were all lumped with it. I believe it to be the worst policy legacy of the Major years.

Yes!! I heartily agree. British Railways are a disgrace.

[BDunnell]

Yes!! I heartily agree. British Railways are a disgrace.

A small, incredibly pedantic, distinction — British Railways, as much derided as the organisation was, was actually far from a disgrace. British railways, however, are.

[fandango]

Was it not called British Rail?

[BDunnell]

Was it not called British Rail?

At one point, the official name of the company was certainly British Railways plc. I am not certain if it remained so, with British Rail being merely the 'brand name'.

[fandango]

Does this make us trainspotters?

[AndyRAC]

A small, incredibly pedantic, distinction — British Railways, as much derided as the organisation was, was actually far from a disgrace. British railways, however, are.

Ha ha, I actually meant the railways of Britain, not the old BR (We're getting there) But I take your point, and agree. Yes, they were much derided, but they were a hell of a lot better than what we get now.

[BDunnell]

Ha ha, I actually meant the railways of Britain, not the old BR (We're getting there) But I take your point, and agree. Yes, they were much derided, but they were a hell of a lot better than what we get now.

Not least by many rail experts and politicians, which is surely the acid test.

By the way, does anyone else dislike the term 'train station'? The word 'railway' seems to be going out of use.

[Mark in Oshawa]

All I know is if the passenger train network is going to be "nationalized" by a foreign nation, having the Germans do it isn't a bad deal. I mean come on.....there are worse fates.

I would be happy to see the Germans run VIA Rail in Canada....

[BDunnell]

All I know is if the passenger train network is going to be "nationalized" by a foreign nation, having the Germans do it isn't a bad deal. I mean come on.....there are worse fates.

I would be happy to see the Germans run VIA Rail in Canada....

Deutsche Bahn isn't perfect, but I use its services a lot and they are amongst the best out there.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Deutsche Bahn isn't perfect, but I use its services a lot and they are amongst the best out there.
Well the problem here would challenge the efficient Germans. Passenger trains have to share the tracks with the people who own the actual rails, that is CP and CN...and they don't always give the passenger service the right windows and mess their schedule around a little.

It also is an issue in a country 6 time zones long to have any kind of decent rail service when planes work so much better.

[Malbec]

Perhaps at least we may see an improvement on service but I fail to see how another government should be allowed to manage a considerable part of another company's infrastructure through the back door.

How about EDF energy being a major player in British electricity supply? I believe Electricite De France is also state owned and is also looking to get into nuclear power production here too.

Don't want to call a conflict of interest but Andrew Brown is head of PR at EDF UK, I believe his brother Gordon does something in politics....

[Mark in Oshawa]

How about EDF energy being a major player in British electricity supply? I believe Electricite De France is also state owned and is also looking to get into nuclear power production here too.

Don't want to call a conflict of interest but Andrew Brown is head of PR at EDF UK, I believe his brother Gordon does something in politics....

I am surprised nothing more isn't being said about that.....wow...that is a big conflict of interest....

[V12]

The British railways as things stand are a classic example of mixing the worst of private sector customer service with none of the benefits that self-same private sector can bring in terms of competition, because there is no competition.

This hits the whole nail on the head to be honest. I'm about as far as you can get from a socialist or whatever, and firmly believe in the idea of a free for all competition and survival of the best, not just in business but in sport too (which is why I always rant against F1 and US major league sports being such a closed shop for instance).

But when it comes to an inflexible national infrastructure such as the rail network, it is completely impractical. And as you say, no actual competition, no choice for the customer. If I'm fed up with Train Company X's service from City A to City B at Time and Day C, I don't have the option of taking my money elsewhere, to Train Company Y's service which also runs from City A to City B at or near Time C.