Champ Car driver participation in the 500 [Archive]

ChicagocrewIRL

2nd March 2007, 06:30

From Speedtv.com March 1, 2007
By Robin Miller

"Most of Champ Car’s teams will likely take a pass on this year’s Indianapolis 500, but the way is now paved for any of its drivers to participate the whole month.

Although there’s no official announcement as yet, Champ Car’s inaugural race in Zhuhai, China, scheduled for May 20, is being moved to Oct. 28 – the week after the annual stop at Surfers Paradise, Australia. It’s believed the Chinese promoters need more time to work on the track and gather sponsorship.

This means Paul Tracy, Justin Wilson, Oriol Servia, Alex Tagliani, Nelson Philippe, Bruno Junqueira, Graham Rahal and Sebastien Bourdais would be around for all of May if, in fact, they seek a ride or are allowed to participate in the 91st classic. Newman/Haas Racing fielded a pair of cars for Junqueira and Bourdais in 2005, and that’s the only Champ Car team that would appear to have the wherewithall, desire and equipment.

Bobby Rahal co-owns an Indy Racing League operation and obviously that could be a seat for his 18-year-old son if he desired.

Junqueira was seriously injured while running fifth in ’05 but has always run well at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and was the polesitter in 2002.

“I think the only way I’d do it is if I could drive for Penske, Ganassi or AGR, but that’s not likely to happen and if you’re not with one of those three teams you’re running for eighth or ninth place,” said Tracy, who lost the 2002 race in appeals court.

If none of the drivers choose to run Indy, it means they’ll have six weeks between the third race of ’07 at Houston (April 22) and the fourth at Portland (June 10).

That will be the first of two six-week gaps, as Champ Car is also pushing its Sept. 9 show in Zolder, Belgium back to Aug. 26 so as not to tread on F1’s Belgian Grand Prix on Sept. 15 at Spa.

Teams will be idle from Assen, Holland on Sept. 2 to Australia on Oct. 21."

So basically, Robin Miller says that there is little chance of any ChampCar teams participating in the Indy 500, but the chances are better that individual drivers would participate since with the change of the China race date, the drivers would be off for one and a half months.

My question to the forum members is this, which drivers, in your opinions are the most likely to participate? And to you forum members who are Champ Car stalwarts, does participation in the Indianapolis 500 by a CCWS driver equate betrayal by that driver against the CCWS ?

gofastandwynn

2nd March 2007, 09:15

I could see Graham in a 3rd car for his father very easily.

sezix

2nd March 2007, 12:10

Would be nice to see Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal compeating against each other.

DRC

2nd March 2007, 13:55

I don't think you'll see many (if any) drivers because of this very logic:

“I think the only way I’d do it is if I could drive for Penske, Ganassi or AGR, but that’s not likely to happen and if you’re not with one of those three teams you’re running for eighth or ninth place,” said Tracy, who lost the 2002 race in appeals court.

There's no benifit for Champ Car teams to come and run 10th. And without partnering with a team that has full development data on the IRL cars, they'll all be a bit behind the big three.

I do agree that we could see Graham with Dad, but I still don't think he'll have much shot at winning.

Shame, really...as it looks like May is going to open up for Champ Car and I'd love to see some teams participate.

Quetch

2nd March 2007, 16:01

Shame, really...as it looks like May is going to open up for Champ Car and I'd love to see some teams participate.

What would be the point? Most of them don't have any sponsors to please by appearing at Indy. So why help out a rival series to bring up its car count?

ChicagocrewIRL

2nd March 2007, 16:43

But Paul Tracy didn't rule it out....which tells me these drivers want to drive. Having 6 weeks off in the middle of the season isn't good for any driver. Even though it's an oval, it's probably the most challenging oval out there.

I don't see AGR going with 6 cars, but it's not out of the question for Ganassi to field a third car, or Penske for that matter, to get a top notch Champ Car driver over for the month of May.

Remember I am talking about the individual DRIVERS, not Champ Car teams.

DRC

2nd March 2007, 17:14

What would be the point?

To improve the race that was once the great Indy 500.

Most of them don't have any sponsors to please by appearing at Indy.

True, but the ability to run Indy may be a reason for a sponsor to join a team?

ACTF_ZETT

2nd March 2007, 23:17

ZzZzZz

3rd March 2007, 07:28

I forget if this was proved last year or two years ago when every CART driver that entered the race crashed out. I also remember the crowd going nuts when this happened, (at least it did in turn 4, I know I was laughing my ass off). I hope none of them enter the race.

How many drivers was that? Two? Was the year CART driver took the top 6 spots funny? (With Tony Stewart doing "the double" in a CART team car in 7th.) Maybe *that's* why you don't want them entering...

Anyway, this would probably be too much of a distraction in Graham's rookie year.

I'd like to see a formal invitation (by TG) and a formal acceptance (by KK) to do this. With both sides on board, this could be done properly to the benefit of both sides and, gee-wiz, the fans and sponsors...

To late to see anything significant for this year. But the gesture can be made and the first steps taken.

It's well established that Indy can be done as a one-off or a crossover. If the right steps are taken, Indy could be huge in '08.

Btw, in Junky's first interview in the hospital he said he wanted to do Indy again. Not the words of a hapless victim.

Hoss Ghoul

3rd March 2007, 12:15

How many drivers was that? Two? Was the year CART driver took the top 6 spots funny? (With Tony Stewart doing "the double" in a CART team car in 7th.) Maybe *that's* why you don't want them entering...

Anyway, this would probably be too much of a distraction in Graham's rookie year.

I'd like to see a formal invitation (by TG) and a formal acceptance (by KK) to do this. With both sides on board, this could be done properly to the benefit of both sides and, gee-wiz, the fans and sponsors...

To late to see anything significant for this year. But the gesture can be made and the first steps taken.

It's well established that Indy can be done as a one-off or a crossover. If the right steps are taken, Indy could be huge in '08.

Btw, in Junky's first interview in the hospital he said he wanted to do Indy again. Not the words of a hapless victim.

Some good points, epsecially the one off attempts and Rahal(everyone said Andretti was too young and inexperienced-and he had more oval experience, regardless of his 2nd place result).

Just to be fair though...no way could CC put more than a few in the top 10...when they dominated the top 10 they had the best drivers and teams in OWR, now the reverse is true. I understand why you said that, but speaking realistically as things are today, it would never happen.

All that said, having the top 4 or 5 guys from Champ Car run the Indy 500 would be great. The only thing that would be better is to have a few of NASCAR's open wheel vets in the race.

The truth of it is, although you have 2 or 3 top teams in the IRL, the car and engine package being what it is, makes for an inviting opportunity for any driver and team not afraid to make excuses...after all, there is no shortage of practice time at Indy.

xander918

3rd March 2007, 16:47

Jonesi

3rd March 2007, 19:45

Let me pose this question, and hopefully this does not start a flame war, but, if you wanted to see the best race possible, are there any drivers that are currently on teams in the IRL that you would replace with a Paul Tracy, Bruno Junqueira, Graham Rahal, Sebastien Bourdais Bordais or any other driver out there that would consider running the I500?

Not really. The weak drivers are probably in even weaker teams (either talent and/or resources $). Panther and D&R are competent mid pack teams that seem to be held back more by modest budgets than by their drivers. I don't think the missing ingredient at Foyt or Vision is a better driver. The regular Indy only teams: Roth, PDM, Playa Del, Team Leader, Schmidt, Beck are far from needing "just a great driver".
About the only interesting/competitive extra cars I see might be, 3rd Rahal car for Graham, 3rd Ganassi car for JPM.

BenRoethig

3rd March 2007, 22:58

Would be nice to see Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal compeating against each other.

That could be pair to ensure a bright future for American open wheel racing if TG and KK could find a way not to mess everything up for a change..

DRC

3rd March 2007, 23:07

Let me pose this question, and hopefully this does not start a flame war, but, if you wanted to see the best race possible, are there any drivers that are currently on teams in the IRL that you would replace with a Paul Tracy, Bruno Junqueira, Graham Rahal, Sebastien Bourdais Bordais or any other driver out there that would consider running the I500?

Some excellent points about what are probably some good drivers driving for bad teams. But I would answer your question this way...With the I500 having 33 spots, I'd like to take the "top" 15 drivers/cars from the IRL and the "top" 15 from Champ Car and see how they do. Of course, that's about the whole field for both sides! ..which is OK in my book. I believe some of the "bottom" drivers in CC are also hurt by not being part of better (better funded?) teams.

But again, realistically, the CC teams would suffer because they don't work with IRL cars on a regular basis. So I like the idea of each IRL team picking up at least one CC driver to ensure that the I500 has the best in open wheel racing.

Alexamateo

3rd March 2007, 23:57

Let me pose this question, and hopefully this does not start a flame war, but, if you wanted to see the best race possible, are there any drivers that are currently on teams in the IRL that you would replace with a Paul Tracy, Bruno Junqueira, Graham Rahal, Sebastien Bourdais Bordais or any other driver out there that would consider running the I500?

I don't see anybody on a top team swapping for any driver, not even Seabass, nor would I think that Seabass would want to take Darren Manning's place at Foyt. I don't think the driver is the missing ingredient there. What would be nice is to add some quality teams like Newman-Haas and Foysythe. Those two teams, a couple of Coyne cars and Justin Wilson, and I think you've got yourself a nice 500 field.

gofastandwynn

4th March 2007, 13:20

How many drivers was that? Two? Was the year CART driver took the top 6 spots funny? (With Tony Stewart doing "the double" in a CART team car in 7th.) Maybe *that's* why you don't want them entering...

What do we have to fear now? All of those cart teams are IRL teams now, and all of those cart teams got beat in 2002, 2004 & 2005.

I think he is refering to N&H, where both drivers did crash out (although I wasn't cheering when I saw Bruno's accident, and no one noticed Seabass's hit in 3.)

And Tony came in 6th that year, and Andretti was running a Panther car paid for by Green.

jimispeed

4th March 2007, 18:30

Is it worth it for any Champcar driver to race? We have seen drivers suffer many broken backs with that chassis.....

Hoss Ghoul

5th March 2007, 11:32

Is it worth it for any Champcar driver to race? We have seen drivers suffer many broken backs with that chassis.....

Racing is a dangerous sport, it is up to the individual to weigh the risk.

Side note though, have there been any more of those spinal fractures since the introduction of the SAFER Barriers at most(now all, I believe) ISC/SMI, IMS, etc tracks? It is hard to keep track as they went in over a few years. Were they in place at Indy when Bruno was injured?

DRC

5th March 2007, 13:40

Were they in place at Indy when Bruno was injured?

Yes. But to be fair, I'm not 100% sure how he hit them (or if he just missed them)?

gofastandwynn

5th March 2007, 22:09

Yes. But to be fair, I'm not 100% sure how he hit them (or if he just missed them)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6gpc6eo4tk

He hit the safer wall, but he hit them head on at an angle that it almost identical to Danny-Os accident in 81.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trTboUnwjls

And when people want to compare safety, they forget to factor in that a champ car will never get above 200mph while at most tracks an indy car never goes under 200mph...

DRC

5th March 2007, 22:18

A bit OT, but Dr. Steve Olvey's book "Rapid Response" is a terrific read. A bit gory at times, it's amazing what these guys have gone through in our recent past. Danny O's accident reminded me of that...

gofastandwynn

5th March 2007, 22:38

Oh I agree, it is a great read, but if you aren't ready that book can be quite graphic. It vividly describes all of the major accidents, and goes into great detail about Moore, Smiely, Foyt's 2 big ones, Krosnoff. It is great, but just be warned.

Jonesi

6th March 2007, 12:51

Racing is a dangerous sport, it is up to the individual to weigh the risk.

Side note though, have there been any more of those spinal fractures since the introduction of the SAFER Barriers at most(now all, I believe) ISC/SMI, IMS, etc tracks? It is hard to keep track as they went in over a few years. Were they in place at Indy when Bruno was injured?

I think there are SAFER Barriers at most of the trouble spots, but there are lots of places to hit that aren't covered by them yet. I don't recall a recent IRL accident in a non covered area, but I know there were some in Nascar last year.

ZzZzZz

7th March 2007, 06:51

Just to be fair though...no way could CC put more than a few in the top 10...when they dominated the top 10 they had the best drivers and teams in OWR, now the reverse is true. I understand why you said that, but speaking realistically as things are today, it would never happen.

Agreed. I've made that point before. TG went into a tizzy after the top 7 thing. He didn't understand how great it was for Indy to have all those stars crossing over. When he brought those teams into the IRL, they displaced a larger number of teams. And the pool of 8 and growing CART teams adding to the field dwindled. Went from lots of bumping to scrambling to make 33.

Anyway, the fear of having his ego bruised like that is negligible nowadays.

[quote]All that said, having the top 4 or 5 guys from Champ Car run the Indy 500 would be great. The only thing that would be better is to have a few of NASCAR's open wheel vets in the race.[quote]

I want both! And more! The bigger Indy is, the more other big drivers will find a way to do it. (How big a part was Indy in Mansell's decision to race in CART?)

F1boat

7th March 2007, 08:24

I'd love to see Michael Shumancher racing in the Indy 500 with Penske :)

gofastandwynn

7th March 2007, 18:11

The state of Indiana is not large enough to hold both of those egos at the same time. :D :p :D

I don't know, Penske does have Ryan Newman & Kurt Busch in the same camp.

If it were to happen (which is 0%) it would either be a Donahue-like relationship with 2 people going for perfection or 2 people standing across the garage from each other screaming "Don't you know who I am..."

Wilf

16th March 2007, 04:47

The state of Indiana is not large enough to hold both of those egos at the same time. :D :p :D

The captain did ok with some pretty big egos on his team. In no particular order the following come to mind:
Bobby Unser
Danny Sullivan
Paul Tracy.

The winningest owner in Indy 500 history doesn't compete with his drivers, he gets them to understand the value of using his equipment. On this side of the pond, if you want to win at Indy, Penske is the obvious choice, not Ferrari.

However, I can't imagine Michael Shumancher having any interest in competing on an oval unless he gets tag teamed by Mario, Emmo, and Nigel.

ChicagocrewIRL

16th March 2007, 05:25

However, I can't imagine Michael Shumancher having any interest in competing on an oval unless he gets tag teamed by Mario, Emmo, and Nigel.

Haha those Formula 1 pansies are too scared to drive at 220 mph on an oval. Will never happen. It's too dangerous for those Formula 1 "guys"

Easy Drifter

16th March 2007, 20:31

Nigel Mansell, JV, JPM didn't do too bad!

Chamoo

17th March 2007, 02:19

Nigel Mansell, JV, JPM didn't do too bad!

To be fair, JV and JPM both started in CART before heading to F1. But yes, they did relatively well I believe.

grungex

17th March 2007, 03:52

Haha those Formula 1 pansies are too scared to drive at 220 mph on an oval. Will never happen. It's too dangerous for those Formula 1 "guys"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ChicagocrewIRL

17th March 2007, 16:16

All I know is, all the Formula 1 guys that havent raced in any of the two North American series, all say oval racing in open wheel cars is too dangerous for them and no amount of money or prestige would get them to race at Indy. None of the current generation of Formula 1 drivers would ever do it, Schumacher included.

ZzZzZz

18th March 2007, 08:41

nigelred5

20th March 2007, 01:52

To be fair, JV and JPM both started in CART before heading to F1. But yes, they did relatively well I believe.

Villeneuve 2nd in first appearance, and a win in his second attempt, after a 2 lap penalty.
Montoya, won in his first and only attempt.

And both were racing against some of the best fields of drivers ever.

gorby007

20th March 2007, 03:26

The only one I recall saying that is Schumacher. I'm sure some of the current F1 drivers would love to, it it were feasible.

But, if you look at it from their perspective, Indy isn't exactly as big a deal as it used to be. F1, as a whole, is more prestigous right now. So, why would it make sense to take a step down to a dangerous event.

If the some of the top drivers from CC, NASCAR, ALMS, etc. were showing up every year, Indy would be a much bigger event on the world's stage and you can bet the F1 guys would be more interested.

I recall as well Schumacher was asked about NA racing around the time Montoya moved over, I don't recall if it was in regards to the IRL or Nascar, and his answer was not security related it was more along the lines of he didn't see the point in going round and round.

turbo-engine

20th March 2007, 11:15

I recall as well Schumacher was asked about NA racing around the time Montoya moved over, I don't recall if it was in regards to the IRL or Nascar, and his answer was not security related it was more along the lines of he didn't see the point in going round and round.

Unfortunately, this is not only the opinion of Schumacher, but it is the opinion of many many Europeans. If you asked them something about Indycar or CC there are only two responses you will get. The first one is "Indycar/CC? What's that?" and the second one .. "Indycar/CC? Is this where they always go in circles? Always going left is so boring!" Nobody knows what it's like to drive a 230 mph fast race car on an oval. That's so sad. So it is not really surprising that Schumacher is not convinced that oval racing is a great challenge.

Subaru WRX

20th March 2007, 12:52

Haha those Formula 1 pansies are too scared to drive at 220 mph on an oval. Will never happen. It's too dangerous for those Formula 1 "guys"
yes its too dangerous, don't forget Paul Dana incident of last year :(

Easy Drifter

20th March 2007, 19:12

At the salary MS commanded why would he come to IRL or NAPCAR? 30+ mil salary and probably 50 more in side deals.

ChicagocrewIRL

6th April 2007, 05:47

I wonder what the chances are for Penske giving Paul Tracy or Sebastian Bourdais his third car ??? I wonder if any of the 10 TBA entries could be open to CCWS drivers.

I know Graham Rahal has said that his focus will be on Champ Car this year and that the 500 is something he would like to do when he is more established.

ChicagocrewIRL

6th April 2007, 05:54

Has the CCWS China race been officially moved ? It's still on May 20th on the CCWS website as well as the ESPN broadcast website....

Jag_Warrior

6th April 2007, 17:37

I don't recall seeing any quotes to that effect. I assume you can provide links? More like they can make WAY more money in F1 and the other European series than in IRL (or CC for that matter). CART, at it's peak, was a viable alternative for F1 folks - and a number of them came over and raced here ovals and all. But neither NA open wheel series is more than a pimple on the world scene these days and that includes Indy.

Coulthard is the only current F1 driver who I can recall making any comments about the safety of oval racing... and that's been quite a few years ago. Schumacher may have said something similar - I don't know. But the only race that I can recall Schumacher saying he wouldn't do, for safety reasons, was Le Mans.

To be honest, and not trying to be cruel, why would someone of Schumacher's stature risk his health and future with his family to race against the best (or the worst) that the IRL has to offer? I don't care for the guy at all, though I respect his skill, even if he won the Indy 500, what would that do for his legend? I think it would be a good resume footnote if he succeeded in winning, but... why? He's considered by many to be the greatest driver in the world. He would be expected to beat everyone from Sam and Helio to Danica and Sarah. What if that didn't happen? And even if it did, so what? Would the guy who took the throne from Ayrton Senna care that he's leading Sam Hornish or Danica Patrick? Too little to gain... too much to lose, IMO.

For the Marco Andrettis and Graham Rahals of the world (young, up and coming racers), a win might be something that would mean something more as they moved forward. But to be honest, if either of those kids makes it to Formula One and wins just ONE grand prix, I firmly believe that would be more talked about than if they were to win the Indy 500 in its current state. NASCAR drivers aren't even all that worked up about not being able to do the Indy 500 anymore. Does anyone see them as "pansies" for not wanting to do the Indy 500? :dozey:

blackfox

6th April 2007, 21:56

You will not see any Champ Car drivers in the 500 this year unless there "ask" by KK. If the forum remebers, Junky was actualy leading the CC Championship when he was injured at Indy. I can tell you this, CC drivers and teams have not forgotten this fact. To be honest as long as the split continues, winning the 500 means very little to anyone out side of the IRL. However it would look nice on a resume.

ZzZzZz

7th April 2007, 00:18

[quote="ChicagocrewIRL"]I wonder what the chances are for Penske giving Paul Tracy or Sebastian Bourdais his third car ???QUOTE]

If he runs a third car, it would likely be his current employee Ryan Briscoe.

Skid Marx

7th April 2007, 21:49

At the salary MS commanded why would he come to IRL or NAPCAR? 30+ mil salary and probably 50 more in side deals.

Exactly. It was estimated during his final years of driving that Schumi's total annual compensation (salary, endorsements, etc.) exceeded $85,000,000 per year! (He and Tiger Woods were going back and forth with the title of World's Highest Paid Athlete.) Why run Indy and take a risk of a disfiguring or fatal injury, when you've got all that bank to spend? It's not worth it, and even if he ran it and won, how much effect would it have on his already considerable annual income? Not enough, that's how much...

call_me_andrew

7th April 2007, 23:16

yes its too dangerous, don't forget Paul Dana incident of last year :(

That was a car to car crash inolving a driver who shouldn't have been in the race. That could just as easily happened on a road course.

weeflyonthewall

7th April 2007, 23:37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6gpc6eo4tk

He hit the safer wall, but he hit them head on at an angle that it almost identical to Danny-Os accident in 81.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trTboUnwjls

And when people want to compare safety, they forget to factor in that a champ car will never get above 200mph while at most tracks an indy car never goes under 200mph...

CC's 230+mph at Fontana must be a dream?

Mark in Oshawa

8th April 2007, 23:15

Champ Cars only are slower in top speed by the nature of the course they have picked of late, but that said, they are hitting 190 mph at Vegas and Toronto, and last time I looked, running that fast on a narrow street course would be as daunting as any speeds raced at the billiard table smooth IMS.

IMS is still awesome however, but for poltical BS, would have a much better field. Maybe some drama in qualifying as 40 plus cars tried for 33 spots....oh right, 33 is just a number....

ChicagocrewIRL

9th April 2007, 14:34

9th April 2007, 19:34

CC's 230+mph at Fontana must be a dream?

When did ChampCar run at Fontana?

Subaru WRX

9th April 2007, 21:47

When did ChampCar run at Fontana?
I remember in 2003 the ex CART had Fontana in its final race of the season just after Surfers Paradise, but an earthquack there prevented the race and so the season ended in Australia (Tracy champion) :D

DRC

9th April 2007, 21:50

Champ Car (CART) ran a number of races in Fontana. Fontana is where Greg Moore was killed in the season finale. (I forget the year...2000 maybe?)

Subaru WRX

9th April 2007, 22:05

lol earthquake or brush fire, CCWS didn't run there in 2003 :D

Mark in Oshawa

10th April 2007, 19:54

Tomas Enge managed to do significant damage to himself on a "low speed" street circuit. Auto racing by its very nature is inherently dangerous no matter what the speeds, no matter what type of car. To me, the argument that oval racing is MORE dangerous than any other type of racing just doesn't hold water. AND look at these guys who go 180+ mph in motorbikes. NOW THAT'S CRAZY !!!!!

Well, rather than just doing opinions, examine the number of injuries lost in the IRL vs CART/CCWS. I think the injury numbers are not making the IRL look good but I do think neither side has the market corners on safety. I do believe that it has been scientfically proven that the faster you hit things, the more force that has to be disappated, and until the softwalls came along, it was a no brainer which series was more likely to give you a broken back.

ChicagocrewIRL

26th April 2007, 03:28

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/36896/

Looks like Kevin Kalkhoven DID want CCWS drivers to run at Indy this May. But of course the conditions he stipulated for that participation were ridiculous. Now all his drivers can spend the next 6 weeks watching instead of participating. FREE ENGINES ??? c'mon Kevin ! If Tony George did agree to this, I would really be P.O.ed if I was Playa Del Racing, Hemelgarn,Sam Schmidt, etc etc .

ACTF_ZETT

27th April 2007, 03:55

This is why I dont want CART drivers in the 500.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pfWKNV0szfk

Try to copy the 500 and the 3 wide start, served them right. You want to run the 500, join the IRL.

BTW I just got my 2007 Indy 500 tickets in the mail yesterday. I also got my garage pass for Saturday before the race. I hope to god that if one CART driver enters the race, it is a Jimmy Vasser car so I can go up to him in the garage area and tell him off.

"Who needs milk." What a jackass.

ACTF_ZETT

27th April 2007, 03:58

indycool

27th April 2007, 15:48

Playing obnoxious safety cards seems to be a benchmark of the CW mantra. Auto racing is dangerous. You can get hurt. Two CC drivers missed Houston because unfortunately they were hurt. Tragically, a drag racer just lost his life in a test. RIP.

IMO, KK wanted a theme for the May whine and he's been hanging around with Gentilozzi too much. A general conversation ("four or five drivers") has suddenly turned into an "I was serious but TG never returned my call" proposal.

Well, if he didn't have a quarter to put in a pay phone to call TG again with some form of details of his proposal, wah, wah wah.

Komahawk

27th April 2007, 16:09

ChicagocrewIRL

27th April 2007, 17:43

Cows?!

It would be difficult for a CART driver to enter the 500 this year, a CC one perhaps. I'm also not sure why you're so incensed over a milk comment. Care to elaborate?

Starter,

I think he was referring to Jimmy Vasser's first words after winning the Inaugural Craash Fest known as the 1996 U.S. 500 at Michigan International Speedway. Vasser quipped "who needs milk" when accepting his trophy and accolades in reference to the winner at Indy drinking milk in victory lane.

As history would end up showing, Vasser apparently needed the milk, running at Indy a few times after CART drivers started coming back.

ACTF_ZETT

27th April 2007, 19:21

Im upset because it completely disrespected the Indy 500 and spit in the face of all the fans who were loyal to it. Vasser thought he was above the Indy 500, when in all reality its probably why he got into open wheel racing to begin with. Isnt that why everyone did? Without the Indy 500 who knows if open wheel racing would even exist today.

Since he made that comment my dad has badmouthed him at least once a week for the past 10 years.

It comes down to this: If your in CART, run CART races. Dont come over and race any IRL race. And I would say the same to IRL drivers. If we cant meet in a board room to discuss the merge of the two series, then dont meet on the track.

Easy Drifter

27th April 2007, 21:09

A rather strange attitude considering a fair number of IRL drivers have come from CART and amost all of the top teams.

indycool

27th April 2007, 21:21

Sure they did. Indy was worth more and CART was headed for bankruptcy. Why wouldn't they?

bzcam

27th April 2007, 21:29

cobre

27th April 2007, 22:00

I think you have forgot that before the split champ cars were running consistantly above 230, and hold the 1 and 4 lap qual speed records; while indy cars have yet to lap above 230, just an observation of mine!

Komahawk

27th April 2007, 22:13

Funny how people speak of "champ cars" in retrospective while that term was practically NEVER used before the split...

jarrambide

27th April 2007, 22:18

OK, now I understand your point. Thanks.

Though open wheel racing is comprised of much more than just "Indy" type cars. There's F1 and the other European & Asian formula series and in the US SCCA has quite a few open wheel racers in many classes; as well as other support type series. FAtlantic has a long history for example. And lets not forget all the various short track groups like WoO, etc. and of course the midgets. Open Wheel is a diverse and thriving community, which those of us who follow CC and/or IRL tend to forget sometimes.
The world is full of open wheel racing, in fact, a vast majority of open wheel fans in the world have never seen an Indy 500 race on TV, obviously F1 is the most widely know open wheel series in the world (and by the way the second most watch sporting event in the world, only the soccer World Cup has a higher rating, but no other league, competition, sporting event has a higher audience year after year), but the world is full of open wheel series.
GP2, which replaced Formula 3000 as the feeder of F1, A1GP, their nations cup idea is interesting, but I personally think the series is doomed, World Series by Renault, I personally find this series very interesting, they put on a a good show race after race, all the different F3 championships, many of them very good series, Asian F3, Spanish F3, F3 Sudamericana, F3 Euroseries, British F3, Australian F3, Formula Nippon, which races in Japan, and many, many, many more different series around the world.

indycool

27th April 2007, 23:04

cobre, in 1996, Arie Luyendyk drove a year-old "Indy car" to a track record of 238 at Indy. He holds the one- and four-lap records. Since then, the cars have been slowed down for safety, as they have been several times throughout history and as CC had done in the past on fast ovals.

Jimmy Magnusson

27th April 2007, 23:52

There was some speculation that I read somewhere that Kat Legge was shopping for a ride for the Indy 500. I don't know about you guys, but I think that would be seriously cool. Having her go up against Danica with Sarah and Milka in the mix would bring a lot of attention to OWR and maybe a few new fans. Sponsors might start lining up as well. IMHO, Legge can beat them all and most of the men too. Sure would love to see it. Will it happen? Who knows.

Kat did a not-so-smooth-or-well-thought-through move on Neel Jani at the last Champ Car race at Houston and took out both of them. Understandably Kevin Kalkhoven (team owner for PKV which Jani races for, and incidentally also Kat's boss, but she is on lease/loan to DCR. KK is also one of the series owners. Boy, are things complicated in US OW Series or what?) was less than happy about this and said, quote, "at times like this you just want to kill someone", end quote. With CC on a six-week break (be thankful, IRL fans! ;) ) he has quite some time to decide if he wants to get rid of Kat, whose preformance has been quite uneven (though acceptable and stable at times). Legge out of a CC drive, viola and come Indy 500.

The world is full of open wheel racing, in fact, a vast majority of open wheel fans in the world have never seen an Indy 500 race on TV, obviously F1 is the most widely know open wheel series in the world (and by the way the second most watch sporting event in the world, only the soccer World Cup has a higher rating, but no other league, competition, sporting event has a higher audience year after year), but the world is full of open wheel series.
GP2, which replaced Formula 3000 as the feeder of F1, A1GP, their nations cup idea is interesting, but I personally think the series is doomed, World Series by Renault, I personally find this series very interesting, they put on a a good show race after race, all the different F3 championships, many of them very good series, Asian F3, Spanish F3, F3 Sudamericana, F3 Euroseries, British F3, Australian F3, Formula Nippon, which races in Japan, and many, many, many more different series around the world.

Problem is, all those series are feeder series/junior categories. In fact there are very few end destinations for also-rans/not quite there/out of F1 drive, namely Champ Car, IRL, Formula Nippon and perhaps Euroseries 3000, though that can be debated. Many who for one reason or another couldn't make it to/in F1 either do one of these series, sportscars or retires... Also IRL is quite well-known even in such countries as Sweden. We get it live via a major cable/satellite network (there are two big ones here, 50% got one and 50% the other), and parts of the 500 is broadcasted on national radio :)

Bob Riebe

28th April 2007, 00:29

Funny how people speak of "champ cars" in retrospective while that term was practically NEVER used before the split...
THat was the term such people as Andretti, Foyt, and the Unsers, and most who drove them, used when speaking of the Dirt cars.

weeflyonthewall

28th April 2007, 00:36

Kat did a not-so-smooth-or-well-thought-through move on Neel Jani at the last Champ Car race at Houston and took out both of them. Understandably Kevin Kalkhoven (team owner for PKV which Jani races for, and incidentally also Kat's boss, but she is on lease/loan to DCR. KK is also one of the series owners. Boy, are things complicated in US OW Series or what?) was less than happy about this and said, quote, "at times like this you just want to kill someone", end quote. With CC on a six-week break (be thankful, IRL fans! ;) ) he has quite some time to decide if he wants to get rid of Kat, whose preformance has been quite uneven (though acceptable and stable at times). Legge out of a CC drive, viola and come Indy 500.

Yes, a topic discussed heavily across the web. If it had been Tracy or Bourdais in Legge's position with half a car into the turn and JANI's CAR WAS ON COLD TIRES after just leaving the pits, everyone would have been calling Jani out for a rookie mistake. He could have easily straight-lined the chicane but thats a CC topic. Kat showed well last year in her first and only oval at Milwaukee. Will the Chipster run her with Target sponsorship? A 2nd tier team will be a waste of time.

indycool

28th April 2007, 03:12

Doubt it. One oval? She's never gone 220 before? And she only finished on the lead lap of all those road and street races last year once. Might get a deal with a smaller team.

Mark in Oshawa

28th April 2007, 22:45

IC if Danica could do it in her rookie year, so could Kat....

I would take Kat over Milka and someone is going to let her have a go at killing herself or someone else.

I would have to say out of the current crop of Champ Car regulars, any one of them could likely test and maybe get up to speed. There really is no incompetant or dangerous drivers in Champ Car, and in the IRL there are maybe one or two regulars I would be nervous about either. Indy isn't the challenge it was 40 or 50 years ago, where guys would race big sprinters on bullrings and then come to the bricks and run faster than they ever could dream on the straights. The Champ Car and IRL drivers of today just have a good grounding on how they need the cars to feel to corner, they know the handling dynamics of a rear engined race car and they know the feeling of speed. The extra 20 or 30mph over the 180 to 190 they run at Road America or 180 in the streets of Toronto or Long Beach on the streets really don't intimdate these guys. Indy is a matter of getting comfortable and getting into a rhythm, and then it is experience in dealing with traffic. Many good race drivers have showed up at Indy and learned on the job, and learned fast......it isn't the mystery that it was when you pulled the boys off the dirt once a year....

ZzZzZz

29th April 2007, 00:35

Im upset because it completely disrespected the Indy 500 and spit in the face of all the fans who were loyal to it. Vasser thought he was above the Indy 500...

Many people think having 26 guaranteed starting spots was a spit in the face of Indy. Apparently, the Indy officials came to that same conclusion, as they abandoned the rule...

What was Jimmy supposed to say? Considering the hostility and uncertain future, what looked like the beginning of a new tradition in the face of the lock-out, etc..? I think anyone, including you, would have acted similarly.

Btw, since you hold a grudge for this against Jimmy, you would logically be holding an exponentially larger grudge against Roger Penske, right? Roger organized the event, Jimmy just happened to win it. He raced where his employer told him. Do you hold a grudge for that against Ganassi, too?

indycool

29th April 2007, 01:13

Mark, I agree with your "change of times" thought and possibly with Kat vs. Milka, but I still think Kat would be running well behind both Danica and Fisher. She's running behind everyone in CC.

Wilf

29th April 2007, 22:25

We should know by May 7th. whether any CCWS drivers will run this year. That is the last day of Rookie Orientation.

indycool

29th April 2007, 22:59

Theoretically, only three wouldn't hafta take it -- Bourdais, Junqueira and Moreno, all Indy vets.

jarrambide

1st May 2007, 02:15

Theoretically, only three wouldn't hafta take it -- Bourdais, Junqueira and Moreno, all Indy vets.

I´m a little bit slow today, why the use of theoretically?

indycool

1st May 2007, 02:26

It used to be the rule that anyone who hadn't MADE THE FIELD before had to take a rookie test. Nigel Mansell took a rookie test. When Leo Mehl came on board, he waived the rule for CART and F1 drivers. Barnhart has GENERALLY followed that procedure but the rules say he can require a refresher test or refresher laps for anyone who hasn't run in awhile or if he thinks they need them under official observation.

DavePI2

1st May 2007, 05:14

pits4me

3rd May 2007, 01:27

indycool

3rd May 2007, 04:44

Duno and Giebler for sure. I've heard there is going to be a few take refresher laps but don't know who they might be.

Hoss Ghoul

3rd May 2007, 07:55

Duno and Giebler for sure. I've heard there is going to be a few take refresher laps but don't know who they might be.

Maybe Marco Andretti, he could use the extra setup/practice time.

Easy Drifter

3rd May 2007, 20:27

I expect Roth will.

pvtjoker

3rd May 2007, 20:57

Duno and Giebler for sure. I've heard there is going to be a few take refresher laps but don't know who they might be.

Who is eligible to run on 1st day of practice for sure:

Rookies:
Duno
Giebler

Refresher:
Michael Andretti
Al Unser Jr.
Ryan Briscoe
Jon Herb
PJ Jones
Stephan Gregoire

I'm not sure about Jaques and Buddy Lazier.

indycool

3rd May 2007, 22:15

According to USA Today, Jaques Lazier is "expected."

weeflyonthewall

5th May 2007, 03:54

According to USA Today, Jaques Lazier is "expected."

Senior moments kicking in early?

Jag_Warrior

6th May 2007, 00:30

In a previous post in this topic the comment was made about champ car running 230 at Fontana. I may be wrong but wasn't it 240 that was actually turned by Defarren(pardon the spelling please) on a practice lap in 2000 ?

Gil de Ferran's pole speed for Fontana was 241.428mph in 2000.

AFAIK, that closed course speed record still stands.

Champcar4life

11th May 2007, 03:58

Champcar holds the record for the fastest pole speed at Fontana at over 241 MPH set in 2000, or 01 by Defarran

Champcar4life

11th May 2007, 03:59

Sorry about the last posted, I didn't see it there.

RGM Fan

13th May 2007, 22:15

With 22 spots locked into the field now I can't see any CC teams, much less any drivers, getting into this year's field. I think PT would be the mostly likely guy to jump into a third car for Roger and he's not going to risk another injury by getting back in the car too soon.

Most of the CC drivers have premotional events scheduled next week which seems to preclude them jumping in a car and getting it up to speed next week. Sebass definately won't be at the speedway as he's going to be in France testing an F-1 car

Why would anyone think a CC team would lay out a half million to compete? I don't see it. If you look at 2000s when CC teams came to the speedway there wasn't ever a bump in ratings for CC then, how could it possibly help them now?