Bunsen and Friends celebrate another great win

[Valve Bounce]

Bunsen is able to celebrate a great win once again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPypWdiC06c

After all the heat and flak poor Bunsen had to put up with after his great win in Oz, he is now able to prove it was no fluke. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[F1boat]

I am so happy for him! Great driver and great champion!

[Robinho]

Great drive, great race, i'm very very 'appy

[pino]

Another well deserved win :up:

[steveaki13]

He has really done well this year. I was one who thought he would struggle v Hamilton early this year.

I was wrong.

[rohanweb]

yes Bunsen is very good, all learned during his years of donkey racing in F1...haha , i like that chap he is cool.. still Lewis Hamilton is defintely rated above Him, whatever the outcome !!!

[jens]

If Button wins the WDC, we should make a present to Saint Devote. :D Everyone laughed at his belief in Jenson and if this belief happens to pay off, we should all bow down!

The development of Button has been quite amazing. I remember he was quite impressive in 04-06 and at that time I rated him really highly, as a top driver basically. However, he didn't always seem to stay that focused during the rough times at Honda and last year's qualifying issues in the second half of the season were notable too. If he had kept on qualifying like that now, he would have little chance (except wet races).

But at the moment Button seems to be a bomb of self-confidence, at the height of his career. The guy we are looking at is not that kid any more, who was messing with BAR and Williams contracts without really knowing, what did he want to do. This is a man, who knows exactly, what he is doing and is using all his experience to maximize results.

He knows, what does it mean to dominate races and what does it feel to drive hopelessly among backmarkers. He knows, what does it mean to be a team leader and what does it mean to struggle against team-mates (esp in his first years) and get criticized that what the hell is he doing in F1 at all. He is vastly experienced, yet young enough (30) to be in his prime.

He has the confidence to take gambles on strategies, knowing what is risking with. He has taken a gamble by joining McLaren and he has hit the head of the nail with this choice, which is an ideal place to boost his reputation. In the past he was struggling to prove himself properly against the team-mates he had, now there can't be such questions any more. Hamilton may seem to be a tad bit racier, but from the psychological side of racing he has a fair bit to learn from Button. This year could teach him a good lesson.

[F1boat]

If Button wins the WDC, we should make a present to Saint Devote. :D Everyone laughed at his belief in Jenson and if this belief happens to pay off, we should all bow down!

The development of Button has been quite amazing. I remember he was quite impressive in 04-06 and at that time I rated him really highly, as a top driver basically. However, he didn't always seem to stay that focused during the rough times at Honda and last year's qualifying issues in the second half of the season were notable too. If he had kept on qualifying like that now, he would have little chance (except wet races).

But at the moment Button seems to be a bomb of self-confidence, at the height of his career. The guy we are looking at is not that kid any more, who was messing with BAR and Williams contracts without really knowing, what did he want to do. This is a man, who knows exactly, what he is doing and is using all his experience to maximize results.

He knows, what does it mean to dominate races and what does it feel to drive hopelessly among backmarkers. He knows, what does it mean to be a team leader and what does it mean to struggle against team-mates (esp in his first years) and get criticized that what the hell is he doing in F1 at all. He is vastly experienced, yet young enough (30) to be in his prime.

He has the confidence to take gambles on strategies, knowing what is risking with. He has taken a gamble by joining McLaren and he has hit the head of the nail with this choice, which is an ideal place to boost his reputation. In the past he was struggling to prove himself properly against the team-mates he had, now there can't be such questions any more. Hamilton may seem to be a tad bit racier, but from the psychological side of racing he has a fair bit to learn from Button. This year could teach him a good lesson.

Excellent post!

[steveaki13]

I get the impression as others may that Lewis is the more agressive and better at hustling the car along, but its become clear to me this year that Hamilton lacks the composure and calmness that Button has. He is always involved in things which use up time and effort.

In the races this year Button has calmly won 2 races by making calm calls on tyres, and not made many mistakes and hasn't been involved in barging sessions.
Then take Hamilton. He has driven brilliantly and scored good points but is always hitting others and making much harder work of his races than maybe need be.

Now Hamiltons races are more exciting and thrilling to watch and I personally don't want that to change as its great fun, but when I look at it straight on Button gets to his good positions with less effort and risk to his car.

With the exception of Bahrain Hamilton has been banging wheels and getting caught in controversy while Button has quietly ajusted to mclaren and scored solid points in two races and 2 wins, without anywhere near as much fuss and risk.

As I said above I am happy to see these contrasting styles and lots of action from Lewis, but when he looks at the results and races he must wonder if he calmed down a bit, whether he would have won 2 races instead.

I get the impression as others may that Lewis is the more agressive and better at hustling the car along, but its become clear to me this year that Hamilton lacks the composure and calmness that Button has. He is always involved in things which use up time and effort.

In the races this year Button has calmly won 2 races by making calm calls on tyres, and not made many mistakes and hasn't been involved in barging sessions.
Then take Hamilton. He has driven brilliantly and scored good points but is always hitting others and making much harder work of his races than maybe need be.

Now Hamiltons races are more exciting and thrilling to watch and I personally don't want that to change as its great fun, but when I look at it straight on Button gets to his good positions with less effort and risk to his car.

With the exception of Bahrain Hamilton has been banging wheels and getting caught in controversy while Button has quietly ajusted to mclaren and scored solid points in two races and 2 wins, without anywhere near as much fuss and risk.

As I said above I am happy to see these contrasting styles and lots of action from Lewis, but when he looks at the results and races he must wonder if he calmed down a bit, whether he would have won 2 races instead.

Good post.

[Saint Devote]

:d :d

[steveaki13]

Good post.


Thanks :)

[AndyL]

But at the moment Button seems to be a bomb of self-confidence, at the height of his career. The guy we are looking at is not that kid any more, who was messing with BAR and Williams contracts without really knowing, what did he want to do. This is a man, who knows exactly, what he is doing and is using all his experience to maximize results.

This is a good observation, and it makes me wonder what Hamilton and Vettel will be like in 5 or 6 years time. Hamilton still clearly is "that kid", yet has already won a championship, and Vettel already shows remarkable maturity at the age of 22.

[Mia 01]

Jenson is an intelligent and matured driver, fast but not aggressive.

It´s taste bitter for Lewis.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Is this a case of Button being canny like Prost, and Hamilton being fast but over aggressive like Senna?

[truefan72]

so Button drove a solid but unspectacular race, passed nobody on track and simply kept his head down. Rosberg, as much as I like him, did not push hard enough when it mattered. and that fateful first pitstop ( and its subsequent 2nd) pretty much doomed Hamilton.

The 2nd restart was terrible and actually against the rules ( to e driving that slow) which caused mayhem behind him and could have all ended sadly.

But a win's a win and Hamilton is only 11 behind him.

Overall a good day for mclaren, a decent day for Hamilton and a great day for Button. Next Spain!

[Robinho]

so Button drove a solid but unspectacular race, passed nobody on track and simply kept his head down. Rosberg, as much as I like him, did not push hard enough when it mattered. and that fateful first pitstop ( and its subsequent 2nd) pretty much doomed Hamilton.

The 2nd restart was terrible and actually against the rules ( to e driving that slow) which caused mayhem behind him and could have all ended sadly.

But a win's a win and Hamilton is only 11 behind him.

Overall a good day for mclaren, a decent day for Hamilton and a great day for Button. Next Spain!

he passed rosberg, albeit partly as a result of Rosbergs off, he was quicker in the wet final part of the race than the whole field inclduing Hamilton for quite a few laps (Button and Hamilton were lapping over a second clear of the field for a while)

and the restart - the stewards saw nothing to even investigate, none of the drivers or teams have had anything to say about it. watching the reverse replay he just slowed consistently into the hairpin and didn't accelerate hard out of it - his perogotive as the leader of the pack. i have said several times, any of the other drivers would have conducted the restart in very similar methods. the others tried to second guess each other by leaving a bit of a gap and assumed that the leader would try to be right on it out of the hairpin, and ran in too hot. they were the ones making the "erratic" moves, buttons were slow and very deliberate.

[Daniel]

he passed rosberg, albeit partly as a result of Rosbergs off, he was quicker in the wet final part of the race than the whole field inclduing Hamilton for quite a few laps (Button and Hamilton were lapping over a second clear of the field for a while)

and the restart - the stewards saw nothing to even investigate, none of the drivers or teams have had anything to say about it. watching the reverse replay he just slowed consistently into the hairpin and didn't accelerate hard out of it - his perogotive as the leader of the pack. i have said several times, any of the other drivers would have conducted the restart in very similar methods. the others tried to second guess each other by leaving a bit of a gap and assumed that the leader would try to be right on it out of the hairpin, and ran in too hot. they were the ones making the "erratic" moves, buttons were slow and very deliberate.
Yes but in your previous posts you also ignored what Brundle said during the broadcasts which is that he is meant to drive in such a way that he doesn't cause any accidents etc etc and anyone with half a braincell can see what nearly happened today.

[Robinho]

Yes but in your previous posts you also ignored what Brundle said during the broadcasts which is that he is meant to drive in such a way that he doesn't cause any accidents etc etc and anyone with half a braincell can see what nearly happened today.

no, i digested what Brundle said at the time, which i didn't fully agree with but took account of, and then compared to what he and the rest of the team said on the F1 forum after when they watched the replay (reverse from Buttons car, which they showed 2 or 3 times) and said that he was slow, but not really erratic, broke consistently and accelerated slowly out, and it was unlikely that the stewards would find anything to bother them.

but now apparently i'm blind and have at least less than half a braincell. god forbid i actually disagree with you.

i get that you saw it differently to me, i don't think your going to agree with me on the strength of my arguement, despite that i think i've made it pretty well, and vice versa, because of my inherent blindness and missing brain parts i can't see me agreeing with yours, even if none of the other drivers seem to have the same bee in their particular bonnets as you do.

i also don't have any particular problem with Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso or Schumacher from the race.

[Daniel]

no, i digested what Brundle said at the time and ignored it because I didn't want to admit that whilst Jenson drove well today he also did something which was rather dangrous. As long as the stewards make a bad decision which I like I'm happy with it but as soon as someone I like gets a penalty I'm going to whine like a baby.

I'm not actually bling but I'm willing to be selective with my vision and memory to arrive at the opinion which I want to hold.

I get that you saw the same race as me and saw an intelligent driver almost cause a comedy pileup which would make the funniest sports videos highlight reel all around the world but he's a champion and he worked within one particular rule to almost cause a monunmental accident whilst ignoring his duty to drive in a careful manner so as not to cause an accident so I'll ignore that rule.

I also don't have any particular problem with people doing needlessly dangerous things on the racetrack.

Edited for accuracy

[PSfan]

no, i digested what Brundle said at the time, which i didn't fully agree with but took account of, and then compared to what he and the rest of the team said on the F1 forum after when they watched the replay (reverse from Buttons car, which they showed 2 or 3 times) and said that he was slow, but not really erratic, broke consistently and accelerated slowly out, and it was unlikely that the stewards would find anything to bother them.


And according to the sporting regs:

40.7 Any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

[Robinho]

Edited for accuracy

like a spoilt child, thanks. you are a step away from invoking the "Nazi" clause in internet discussion.

can you accept that i saw the same thing as you and interpreted completley differently? can you accept that i saw the same thing as the stewards and interpreted the same as them?

i'm not saying you are wrong, i just disagree with your opinion on the matter. i do think you are wrong, but i'm not interested in trying to convert you as you've clearly made up your mind and resoted to points scoring rather than discussing. i assume i'll have an "amusing" page on wikipedia shortly? ;)

[Daniel]

like a spoilt child, thanks. you are a step away from invoking the "Nazi" clause in internet discussion.

can you accept that i saw the same thing as you and interpreted completley differently? can you accept that i saw the same thing as the stewards and interpreted the same as them?

i'm not saying you are wrong, i just disagree with your opinion on the matter. i do think you are wrong, but i'm not interested in trying to convert you as you've clearly made up your mind and resoted to points scoring rather than discussing. i assume i'll have an "amusing" page on wikipedia shortly? ;)
LOL, the last refuge of someone who doesn't actually have much else to say beyond their false logic, claiming that the person on the other side is going to invoke some moronic "rule" which trivialises any reference to the Nazi's how ever relevant it might be to an internet discussion.

[Robinho]

And according to the sporting regs:

40.7 Any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time whilst the safety car is deployed will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.

happy with that. the stewards, and i, think that it was not unnecessarily slow or potentially dangerous to other drivers. others obviously do, fair enough, its clearly not going to change now.

if thats the reg you think was broken then thats great, doesn't necessarily mean it was broken, just by being aware of its existence and linking it to an incident

[Daniel]

happy with that. the stewards, and i, think that it was not unnecessarily slow or potentially dangerous to other drivers. others obviously do, fair enough, its clearly not going to change now.

if thats the reg you think was broken then thats great, doesn't necessarily mean it was broken, just by being aware of its existence and linking it to an incident
:rotflmao:

So basically Jenson drives so slow as to almost cause an accident in difficult conditions and the rules are laid bare before you and you choose to ignore it all. :rotflmao:

[Robinho]

:rotflmao:

So basically Jenson drives so slow as to almost cause an accident in difficult conditions and the rules are laid bare before you and you choose to ignore it all. :rotflmao:

HAVE YOU WATCHED THE REPLAY?

[Daniel]

HAVE YOU WATCHED THE REPLAY?
YES

[Retro Formula 1]

Daniel. Are you always this antagonistic and childish? Changes someone post to score cheap points is pretty immature isn't it. Robinho has stated his views succinctly and in a respectful and mature manner. Can't you reciprocate in a similar way otherwise you devalue all your posts.

Back to the point of the thread, it was a slow restart but didn't look dangerous or illegal. That's my personal opinion and one shared by the stewards. However, you may disagree which is perfectly fine. i can live with the difference of views.

[Robinho]

LOL, the last refuge of someone who doesn't actually have much else to say beyond their false logic, claiming that the person on the other side is going to invoke some moronic "rule" which trivialises any reference to the Nazi's how ever relevant it might be to an internet discussion.

the refuge was long since passed, you called me names, claimed there "is no hope", changed my post in a vein attempt to discredit me or make a joke, purely because i disagree with you, and yet apprently its me with the problem.

i stand by my arguement. I don't think the actions of Button were reckless, i don't think it nearly casued an accident. i don't think the rule, however well writeen, was broken.

i'm happy to agree to disagree, we're going nowhere, i've agreed and disagreed with you plenty in the past and will again in all probablility, we're coming from opposing stances here, i disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment and the more you labour the point the further i am from agreeing with you. the more you laugh at me, post smileys and post nothing of substance the more i glaze over.

i have nothing else to say beacuse i've said it and you've ignored it. you don't see it my way and i'm not that bothred

[Robinho]

YES

good, then we have nowhere else to go, we've seen the same thing and reached different conclusions, happens all the time

[Mia 01]

Jenson has, according the regs, the right to choose how and when he will restart. The other drivers was behind him, at the restart he did well. Lewis on the other hand pushed Mark off track in the way all Lewis fans likes it.

[Triumph]

A fantastic job by Jenson again. Very impressive!

Regarding Lewis pushing Mark off the track - which I keep hearing people bleating about on here - maybe they should cast their mind back to Australia.

:-)

[CNR]

A fantastic job by Jenson again. Very impressive!

Regarding Lewis pushing Mark off the track - which I keep hearing people bleating about on here - maybe they should cast their mind back to Australia.

:-)

lewis the lying cheating dimwit is looking like he will be a one hit wonder

[Saint Devote]

Both Lewis and Vettel walking out from the stewards office were pretty tight-lipped. Neither said anything when asked.

Although notably, Lewis in spite of having a somewhat tough time and being asked questions, still found time to sign an autograph for a fan.

Lewis has his faults - as we all do - but that is one really good guy where his fans are concerned. But we know that already.

On the other hand, when the same reporter tried to ask Vettel, the German said nothing and then in a to and fro exchange said he had a tough afternoon. The reporter said that he too is only trying to do his job.

"Tough luck" said Vettel, sort of smiling and walking away.

Make of this what you want.

[Triumph]

lewis the lying cheating dimwit is looking like he will be a one hit wonder

I think we both know how good he is, but express it in different ways. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Yes but in your previous posts you also ignored what Brundle said during the broadcasts which is that he is meant to drive in such a way that he doesn't cause any accidents etc etc and anyone with half a braincell can see what nearly happened today.

It could be argued that those blessed with more than half a braincell may have seen things differently. Viz. the Stewards of the race.

[truefan72]

It could be argued that those blessed with more than half a braincell may have seen things differently. Viz. the Stewards of the race.

not really, stewards are human too and it would have been a tough call to bring in the race leader at that point, and since nobody got hurt I think they sorta let it go. I think they would have been well within their right to take action, but probably were unwilling to take such a difficult action for a variety of reasons, the least being the regs, which clearly state his malfeasance.

At the very least it should have been investigated and a reprimand issued both as an appropriate fine and a deterrent to others in the future.

[Valve Bounce]

not really, stewards are human too and it would have been a tough call to bring in the race leader at that point, and since nobody got hurt I think they sorta let it go. I think they would have been well within their right to take action, but probably were unwilling to take such a difficult action for a variety of reasons, the least being the regs, which clearly state his malfeasance.

At the very least it should have been investigated and a reprimand issued both as an appropriate fine and a deterrent to others in the future.


I was just assuming that the Race Stewards may have been blessed with more than half a brain cell, but I guess we may never know. :eek:

[SGWilko]

Lewis on the other hand pushed Mark off track in the way all Lewis fans likes it.

Do us all a favour - research the myriad of ways you can put that in a post, do it, then stop already. I feel like I am having a groundhog day moment reading your posts. Bonjour.

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry guys, but this thread is dedicated to the great drive of one Bunsen burner under difficult constantly varying track conditions. If you want to bleat about some other guy, then please go elsewhere.

Beat ya to it, pino. :)

[SGWilko]

Jenson is great. Go Jenson!

Woop woop, yeah.

Howzat?

(NB - Thread says Bunsen and friends - you know, Annie, Clarabel, James, Gordon, Sir Toppham Hat......)

[Valve Bounce]

Jenson is great. Go Jenson!

Woop woop, yeah.

Howzat?

(NB - Thread says Bunsen and friends - you know, Annie, Clarabel, James, Gordon, Sir Toppham Hat......)

ANB wot's wrong with his friends celebrating? as you noted on the vid, everyone there was happy about it!!

Basically, I reckon it was a great drive, hence this thread. And I hasten to add that you know I am not that great a fan of Bunsen - but I give credit where credit is due!!

[SGWilko]

ANB wot's wrong with his friends celebrating? as you noted on the vid, everyone there was happy about it!!

Basically, I reckon it was a great drive, hence this thread. And I hasten to add that you know I am not that great a fan of Bunsen - but I give credit where credit is due!!

Nowt wrong in that Valve - was just joshing.

[Valve Bounce]

Nowt wrong in that Valve - was just joshing.

I know, but I beat StD to it. :D

[racepode1]

Good Race for jenson and again in a tough race beat Hamilton, I have a better consideration of him, i was one of the persons that belives he was champion thanks to Brawn double diffusor. He can stay in track a few laps more than a lot of drivers in wet conditions and this give him another win.

[Saint Devote]

Valve Bounce you certainly are a surprise. A good one.

Thank you for the "Bunsen" thread - it is never support for Jenson that I seek, but recognition of Jense, something that is resisted by too many deluded by what appears to be a cognitive dissonance.

Jenson winning two of the first four grands prix and now leading the WDC at the end of this first segment or "sub-season" as teammate to Hamilton at Mclaren - no Button could have imagined that - hoped for yes :D

But this title fight is far from over and another sub-season really begins in Europe. The winner of THAT is as unpredictable as ever. What a great season!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :s mokin:

[Retro Formula 1]

Hamilton is blisteringly fast, innovative and has a fundamental reckless streak.

Button is smooth, intelligent and calculating.

Sound like history repeating itself?

There is no doubting that Senna was ultimately quicker for pace than Prost just as Hamilton can obviously hustle a car quicker and force the amazing moves.

But, the guile and intelligence of Prost and Button is what closed the gap and won the races.

It's going to be a fascinating season (or two)

[ShiftingGears]

It was a great victory, I felt that it was a better victory for Jenson than the OzGP.

[Valve Bounce]

It was a great victory, I felt that it was a better victory for Jenson than the OzGP.

Yes it was. And Bunsen's fans all agree with you too! ;)

[Mia 01]

It was the second of Jensons six or seven lucky wins this year.

[SGWilko]

It was the second of Jensons six or seven lucky wins this year.

I see, you are living in the future huh? What's next weeks Lotto numbers?

Does he have any unlucky wins???

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jensen I think has proven his WDC last year was no fluke. Different team, with a teammate with tremendous talent and his own WDC credentials, and yet he has won 2 out of 4 races; and in both cases, used his brains instead of just stupid speed. Then with the spectre of Lewis Hamilton in his rear view mirror, he turns up the wick because he has more tires left (Lewis chewed up tires in the iffy conditions with no thought of maybe holding on and gaining ground by being smart) and pulls away again.

We don't know how much Jensen Button has in reserve at times, because he only drives fast enough to get him to where he needs to be.

Hamilton in time may be the faster driver, but he has to learn what even Senna eventually learned: You only have to be a tick faster than the second fastest guy. You don't have to lap the field......

There is no one right now who is better at strategy in changing conditions and preserving tires in changing conditions than Jensen Button. Two races he has adapted and won....out of 4. He may not win the championship, but he wont lose it by being brain dead...

[UltimateDanGTR]

Jensen I think has proven his WDC last year was no fluke. Different team, with a teammate with tremendous talent and his own WDC credentials, and yet he has won 2 out of 4 races; and in both cases, used his brains instead of just stupid speed. Then with the spectre of Lewis Hamilton in his rear view mirror, he turns up the wick because he has more tires left (Lewis chewed up tires in the iffy conditions with no thought of maybe holding on and gaining ground by being smart) and pulls away again.

We don't know how much Jensen Button has in reserve at times, because he only drives fast enough to get him to where he needs to be.

Hamilton in time may be the faster driver, but he has to learn what even Senna eventually learned: You only have to be a tick faster than the second fastest guy. You don't have to lap the field......

There is no one right now who is better at strategy in changing conditions and preserving tires in changing conditions than Jensen Button. Two races he has adapted and won....out of 4. He may not win the championship, but he wont lose it by being brain dead...

:up: totally agree.......Jenson has probably the best strategy brain out of the field of drivers I'd say-he knows what to do in changing conditions and knows how to MANAGE his race, whereas there are some who are better at RACING the race.

[steveaki13]

It was the second of Jensons six or seven lucky wins this year.

I am a real fan of Jensons I have seen all of his seasons and could not imagine him reaching this point in his early years. However over the last few seasons I think he has become one of the best drivers on the grid.
As we have pretty much all said, he may not be the outright fastest or most aggressive but he now has a composure and style that means he can bring himself into races, after a poor Quali.

I think his two wins have been great, the doubters say he was lucky in Australia but he looked at the situation and made a brave call for tyres and moved up 5 or 6 places. Yes Vettel retired but if that makes it lucky then half the history of F1 is made up of Lucky wins.

Then last week in China Jenson, Nico, Robert and Vitaly all made the brave decision to stay out on slicks on a wet track, while others jumped to early and had to pit again because of their wrong decision, I think the 4 drivers who stay out showed great calmness and confidence in their own ability, their teams and cars.
Jenson then had a pretty clean race (not withstanding the debate over the re start) and pounced on Rosbergs mistake to lead easily. If it hadn't been for a very generous saftey car then he wouild have stayed 30 seconds or so clear of the people who made the wrong call.

IMO these were two great wins and Jenson deserves praise, I can also see him winning more races if he continues to show this level of composure and driving.

Good Luck Jenson.

[Saint Devote]

If anyone listened to Jense's radio transmissions from the beginning of 2009 then there would be no suprise at his cerebral approach.

He is always fully aware and his mind "slows things down" managing to compute a broad spectrum of detail. But that too is a trait that all top drivers share and apply in different ways at different strengths.

Lewis for example has a special awareness in the heat of battle going into a corner overtaking. It does not matter whether he is fighting one or a couple of drivers.

I found his relatively brief fight with Schumi to be the most enjoyable - anyone could see Schumacher's class. Lewis tried everything and then his mind computed the experience and finally, just as Jense overtook Nico, he overtook Schumi.

There are two superb drivers at Mclaren this year and I do hope that they go on to become a great pairing.

Whitmarsh is looking like a real whizz :-]

[Saint Devote]

It was the second of Jensons six or seven lucky wins this year.

Jenson has said that he is enjoying this year better than last year. And I think it is because he is not only in the best F1 team, but because he has that championship. Both drivers.

BUT - his teammate is Lewis Hamilton. And Jenson is fully aware that nobody could have a tougher driver in the team.

As a Jenson supporter, I too know what Lewis is capable of - I respect him fully for that - and that the story of the 2010 season has yet to be written.

And Jenson's wins have not been "lucky". They are the result of smart and hard work by him and his team. The great Mclaren team.

There is a satisfaction in the world of Jenson fans which will continue at least until the Spanush Grand Prix Friday begins.

That Jense is finally being recognized for the driver that he is and, that he is in the greatest team, Mclaren and that he leads the championship of 2010.

It cannot get better than this for Jense's Barmy Army.

After all those frustrating years as fans, then that horrible winter of 2008 when we al thought it was over, to this?!

I can only imagine how amazed Jenson [and his number 1 fan, his dad] must be at where he is today :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

The best part about all of this, is no one but the most loyal Jensen fan saw it coming in 2008. He went to Brawn and no one really was giving him much credit. Those who did, I take my hat off to you, because this guy proves that in f1, if you have the machinery, it is only then you can truly be judged. He is teammates with the most dynamic and aggressively talented driver in the game, and yet he outqualified him in China, and outsmarted him. Hamilton may win this championship in the end, but it is clear to me it wont be easy. Jensen isn't a patsy and he wont go down without a fight.

His rise to his first championship and his story has reinvigorated my interest in F1....

[Mia 01]

Jenson will win moore races this year, no doubt.

Lewis for sure feels the pressure. Now he is going to learn driving again.

That is in Jensons style.

[Valve Bounce]

Wow another very similar post. You'll wear your Ctrl C/V keys out.. :D


He's been watching that celebratory link in the OP once too often and is getting carried away. :p :

[Retro Formula 1]

The best part about all of this, is no one but the most loyal Jensen fan saw it coming in 2008. He went to Brawn and no one really was giving him much credit. Those who did, I take my hat off to you, because this guy proves that in f1, if you have the machinery, it is only then you can truly be judged.


I thought I would dig a little into the murky depths of the forum and found one such thread.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131903

Not many people gave him a hope in hell but interesting reading.

By the way, the first race of the season would have been the 29th of March.

[Valve Bounce]

I thought I would dig a little into the murky depths of the forum and found one such thread.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131903

Not many people gave him a hope in hell but interesting reading.

By the way, the first race of the season would have been the 29th of March.

Most interesting: Bunsen & Edges. :p : How wrong we were. After Honda's pathetic performance in 2008, who would have dreamt? OK! apart from StD that is. :D

[Saint Devote]

Jenson will win moore races this year, no doubt.

Lewis for sure feels the pressure. Now he is going to learn driving again.

That is in Jensons style.

Lewis wants to win races and beat Jenson - that cannot be described as pressure but a determination to win.

Both drivers are world champions and just like battle veterans, the next battle never pressurizes you as did the first few.

Lewis has to mature yet completely. Jenson is some years ahead and his years in the racing wilderness has tempered and forged him - and might I add his fans too. Not to get too frothy and think that the pattern has been set for the year.

Lewis has nothing to learn fundamentally and as we saw in China, when he was battling with Schumacher. Michael was superb in defense despite his rustiness. But Lewis quickly computed that and his overtaking of Schumacher was clean and fair.

For me, that was one of the highlights of the race.

In the same way, make no mistake, he is going to now be even more difficult for Jenson to race against - and it works both ways.

Jenson and Lewis are learning who the other is. As teammates they will begin to recognize both their strengths and the weaknesses.

And THAT is when we could just witness tremendous battles and wins from either driver.

When Jense was signed, Whitmarsh declared that he decided on Button some time before but never thought he would become available. And he did so because he wanted two drivers that would be strong individually where the other might not.

Hence in Malaysia we saw each Mclaren driver start on different tyre options. Mclaren is aiming for that Constructors Title as Ron Dennis declared some time ago.

I think that Mclaren have the best combination on the grid and, I think that those who were skeptical or did not think Jenson could handle beingteammate to Lewis, are being convinced that Whitmarsh and Jenson made the correct decision.

I have always had confidence in Jenson and anyone that remembers what was written after that Prost test and the first Williams test session that Jenson had all those years ago at Kyalami, cannot be surprised at what Button has shown.

[SGWilko]

I think that Lewis will learn quite a lot from Jenson, and become a much more rounded driver as a result.

Jenson, as last year, has a car he can show his telents in, and with McLaren, they ought to keep development pace.

It's shaping up to be a good season, I hope the two Brits can remain friends, as they genuinely appear to be so at the moment.

[Valve Bounce]

I think that Lewis will learn quite a lot from Jenson, and become a much more rounded driver as a result.

Jenson, as last year, has a car he can show his telents in, and with McLaren, they ought to keep development pace.

It's shaping up to be a good season, I hope the two Brits can remain friends, as they genuinely appear to be so at the moment.

I have a different view on this: Lewis learnt in his rookie year that he can beat a reigning World Champion, and his driving is still reflecting that. He knows he is faster than Bunsen, and there's no need to look back. "He's just had some bad luck, but has driven hard to recover, and all he needs is less bad luck to win".

So why bother to see what Bunsen is doing? On the other hand, Bunsen is using his head, making the right decisions, and is actually driving faster than Lewis over a large number of laps in changing conditions - Lewis doesn't accept that. He knows he can drive faster except when his tyres are buggered.

So there you have it - the Hare and the Tortoise all over again. Why on earth would the hare want to know how the Tortoise is flopping along?

[Mia 01]

I have a different view on this: Lewis learnt in his rookie year that he can beat a reigning World Champion, and his driving is still reflecting that. He knows he is faster than Bunsen, and there's no need to look back. "He's just had some bad luck, but has driven hard to recover, and all he needs is less bad luck to win".

So why bother to see what Bunsen is doing? On the other hand, Bunsen is using his head, making the right decisions, and is actually driving faster than Lewis over a large number of laps in changing conditions - Lewis doesn't accept that. He knows he can drive faster except when his tyres are buggered.

So there you have it - the Hare and the Tortoise all over again. Why on earth would the hare want to know how the Tortoise is flopping along?

I´m not so sure Lewis belives that he can use his head as efficiant as Jenson. Nor are I´m sure of that he belives himself t o be faster than Jenson at the moment. That´s what I meant with pressure.

[Valve Bounce]

I´m not so sure Lewis belives that he can use his head as efficiant as Jenson. Nor are I´m sure of that he belives himself t o be faster than Jenson at the moment. That´s what I meant with pressure.

Well, he did beat Fernando in his rookie year, and I thought, at the time, that Lewis was sensational. He "knows" he is faster than Fernando, so why bother with slow poke Bunsen? At the risk of offending the many Lewis Hamilton supporters here, I feel that Lewis Hamilton is rather swell headed; some, of course, would argue that he has every reason to be.

By the way, as a Swede, you will understand this: I have just watched 12 episodes of "The Killing" and it is killing me. :( Normally any other series (like Unit 1 or The Eagle) has the killer caught in just 1 single episode, and here we are struggling through 12 episodes with no end in sight. :(

[SGWilko]

Well, he did beat Fernando in his rookie year, and I thought, at the time, that Lewis was sensational. He "knows" he is faster than Fernando, so why bother with slow poke Bunsen?

Not such a slow poke then perhaps?

[Valve Bounce]

Not such a slow poke then perhaps?
It's all a matter of perception. Read my post again and you might get the drift.

[ST205GT4]

I'm happy for Button, but I can't escape the thought that both of his wins have been "lucky" to the extent that weather has played a significant role.

I still expect Hamilton to be ahead of him on points by the end of the year. And I still believe him to be a fair margin ahead.

[SGWilko]

I'm happy for Button, but I can't escape the thought that both of his wins have been "lucky" to the extent that weather has played a significant role.


I've said it before - no such thing as an unlucky win....

[Valve Bounce]

I'm happy for Button, but I can't escape the thought that both of his wins have been "lucky" to the extent that weather has played a significant role.



I agree. He was lucky he had two wheels in front, and two at the back!

[SGWilko]

I agree. He was lucky he had two wheels in front, and two at the back!

And a wheel to steer with.....

[Valve Bounce]

And a wheel to steer with.....

He had five wheels?? Isn't that illegal?

[SGWilko]

He had five wheels?? Isn't that illegal?

Oh blast, have I dropped him in it....

Shoot!

[ST205GT4]

I've said it before - no such thing as an unlucky win....

There are plenty of wins that have nothing to do with luck and everything to do with outright pace, which in my opinion Button simply doesn't have.

Take out the weather factor and I just can't see that Button would be where he is now.

Reality is that we have had a couple of races in a row that have been lotteries, like all wet F1 races always are and he's managed to capitalise on them. Kudos for that, but I don't see it as sustainable for the remainder of the season.

[SGWilko]

There are plenty of wins that have nothing to do with luck and everything to do with outright pace, which in my opinion Button simply doesn't have.

Take out the weather factor and I just can't see that Button would be where he is now.

Reality is that we have had a couple of races in a row that have been lotteries, like all wet F1 races always are and he's managed to capitalise on them. Kudos for that, but I don't see it as sustainable for the remainder of the season.

Well, if they were unlucky wins, I can't wait for him to have a lucky one then....

[ST205GT4]

Won't happen. If it's dry he's about 4th or 5th.

If it rains again he has a chance.

[Daniel]

There are plenty of wins that have nothing to do with luck and everything to do with outright pace, which in my opinion Button simply doesn't have.

Take out the weather factor and I just can't see that Button would be where he is now.

Reality is that we have had a couple of races in a row that have been lotteries, like all wet F1 races always are and he's managed to capitalise on them. Kudos for that, but I don't see it as sustainable for the remainder of the season.
I agree. But people have short memories on these forums :)

[Retro Formula 1]

Good point ST205GT4.

I don't think that Jenson shows the explosive pace of Hamilton but he's not too far off race pace.

Spain will be dry so we will see how they have settled down but I expect Hamilton to have the edge although Jenson does seem to have the knack of getting the right pit window.

Should be interesting.

[ArrowsFA1]

Take out the weather factor and I just can't see that Button would be where he is now.
So are you saying Button is superb at managing wet conditions, but is not capable of winning when it's dry?

[F1boat]

So are you saying Button is superb at managing wet conditions, but is not capable of winning when it's dry?

I dunno, he did pretty well last year in several very dry races LOL.

[F1boat]

Give him a loophole and you'll be onto a winner everytime.. :p :)

I dunno, for me he is a great driver, has won with superior and inferior cars, in the dry and the wet... what more can someone ask I don't know :)

[ST205GT4]

So are you saying Button is superb at managing wet conditions, but is not capable of winning when it's dry?

No I'm saying that when it's wet and conditions are changeable the game opens right up and there are lot of potential race winners who would not normally be likely to even set foot on the podium in the dry.

[jens]

The start of the season has been so strange that the championship still looks rather open. As many as six drivers could still realistically have a shot at the title (Button, Rosberg - if MB improves, Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel and Massa if he raises his game). It's a bit unclear, which kind of role Button might play in the championship over a full season, but to stay in the game he would certainly need better results than 7ths and 8ths from dry races, which the majority of the remaining season will consist of. Outqualifying Hamilton twice in dry qualis so far is a good start/omen for the future dry race weekends though.

[F1boat]

No I'm saying that when it's wet and conditions are changeable the game opens right up and there are lot of potential race winners who would not normally be likely to even set foot on the podium in the dry.

I disagree. It is true than some wet races produce bizzare results, like Herbert winning the European GP in 1999, but still, consider how many of the great drivers were or are rain masters - Senna, M Schumacher, now Vettel and Hamilton. Add Jenson to that list ;)

[Mia 01]

I hope it wont get to that that MacLaren builds a new car for Lewis.

[Mia 01]

Have you seen how many fastest laps and overtakes Lewis has achieved this season so far? Two races out of four have not gone his way strategy wise. Its hardly time to call for a new car design is it? :eek:

Nope, I´m probably wrong, Its just that MS needs it.

[Valve Bounce]

This thread is about Bunsen. ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

No I'm saying that when it's wet and conditions are changeable the game opens right up and there are lot of potential race winners who would not normally be likely to even set foot on the podium in the dry.

So are you saying the defending WDC wouldn't be on the podium? Really? I don't recall any cheap podium members in the 3 races outside of Bahrain...

[SGWilko]

Nope, I´m probably wrong, Its just that MS needs it.

The car needs it - weight distribution is all to cock at the moment. MS drives the front, and deals with the loose rear (phnarr, phnarr). At the moment, the weight is too rearward, and in order to replicate a pointy front (oerrr missus) he is, as a result, chewing up his rear tyres faster than a redneck in a hotrod....

[ST205GT4]

So are you saying the defending WDC wouldn't be on the podium? Really? I don't recall any cheap podium members in the 3 races outside of Bahrain...

Not trying to **** stir. I honestly don't believe that Button will end up on the podium in the dry on outright pace. If it's dry and none of the major players suffers an off or a mechanical I think the top three places will be fought out between Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. Webber will probably be up there as well, not because he has the racecraft or pace of the other three, but because the Red Bull seems to be a rocket and it will carry him a bit.

So that puts Button 4th or 5th in my opinion.

[ST205GT4]

I disagree. It is true than some wet races produce bizzare results, like Herbert winning the European GP in 1999, but still, consider how many of the great drivers were or are rain masters - Senna, M Schumacher, now Vettel and Hamilton. Add Jenson to that list ;)

Feel free to disagree :) Everyone has their own valid opinion.

Personally I wouldn't rate Button anywhere near Senna or Schumacher in regards to wet weather skills.

[Saint Devote]

Feel free to disagree :) Everyone has their own valid opinion.

Personally I wouldn't rate Button anywhere near Senna or Schumacher in regards to wet weather skills.


Jense is neither a "wet weather driver", nor one of the "quickest dry weather drivers" or a pole position specialist, or like Prost or Senna - but then neither Vettel or Hamilton can be clasisified like Senna and definitely not Prost.

Jenson is the third category, a driver like Scheckter or Fittipaldi for example. He is the driver that depends on his mind and car control to achieve wins.

Sure he can win from pole position and his Monaco Grand Prix weekend and pole position winning lap last year at Catalunya, were equal to the best.

But drivers like these also get the job done and win championships. They are usually underestimated to some degree - everyone "predicted" that Jody joining Ferrari was THE disaster waiting to happen.

Thats Jense. Nobody other than his loyal supporters reckoned he could beat Hamilton at Mclaren - most people said it would be disaster from the beginning.

Sure its only the end of the beginning, but it has shown that Jenson has to be considered equally and recognized.

[Mia 01]

Its certainly not been a disaster from the beginning and its a great start from both drivers IMO. We can consider Jenson equal if you like but we are still only 4 races into the season. If say for example Jenson does not win another race this year and Lewis out performs him greatly over the next 16 races, what will be the opinion by the seasons end? People won't be able to say "but Jenson dominated Lewis in the first four races and had two win's to Lewis's zero".. It'll be highly irrelevent if that were to happen. If Jenson goes on to outperform Hamilton, I'll give him credit where its due but I still think its far too early to start laying claim. You other favourite Alonso does not class Jenson in the same danger catagory as Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica, and Massa. He was tackled about this view in Autosport and he considers Jenson a threat, "but some drivers he'll watch more than others".... :)

You mean that this years MacLaren are worse than last years Brawn? Perhaps, but only a tad. Besides Alonso, theres only one ruthless driver, Lewis, they fear each other for sure.

Jenson Nico and Seb on the other hand, they do their own thing.

[SGWilko]

You mean that this years MacLaren are worse than last years Brawn? Perhaps, but only a tad. Besides Alonso, theres only one ruthless driver, Lewis, they fear each other for sure.

Jenson Nico and Seb on the other hand, they do their own thing.

The Brawn was the class of the field at seasons start last year - no doubt about it.

[F1boat]

The Brawn was the class of the field at seasons start last year - no doubt about it.

I think that people overestimated it by circular logic. This logic is that Jenson can not win without superior car, so Brawn was superior because Jenson won in it.
In reality the Brawn was a very good car, but never in the same class as, to say, Ferrari F2002 or F2004. In Oz the Brawn was faster than the RBR, but not by that much. Vettel shaded Button for a big part of the race and was able to pull away from the chasing pack until the final pit. In Malaysia the race was hit by rainstorm and Jenson won because he kept his cool in difficult conditions.
The Brawn was beaten convincingly in China. In Bahrain and Barcelona I think that Brawn had a slim advantage over RBR, but Jenson won easily because he overtook well in Bahrain (he managed to take Lewis, unlike Vettel) and because of a perfect qualy lap in Barcelona. Vettel was stuck behind a Ferrari or a McLaren in these two races.
In Monte Carlo Brawn really dominated and still in qualifying Ferrari were very close to them.
So yes, Brawn was the best car at the beginning of the season. But it was not a dominator, like the all-conquering crimson cars in the beginning of the last decade.

[Mia 01]

Crazy Jacques has declared Button is the best driver in the field in the wet.. :p

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/15585.html

Thats not news.

[Valve Bounce]

Thats not news.

OK Buddy!! I know it's not Hartmann, nor Olev (who has just been killed). So who was it??

[SGWilko]

Ross Brawns view of why Jenson went to Mclaren and some nice comments about Lewis too. Cheers Ross.. ;)



http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=365632&FS=F1

You've done it now, haven't you??? .... :laugh:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Not trying to **** stir. I honestly don't believe that Button will end up on the podium in the dry on outright pace. If it's dry and none of the major players suffers an off or a mechanical I think the top three places will be fought out between Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso. Webber will probably be up there as well, not because he has the racecraft or pace of the other three, but because the Red Bull seems to be a rocket and it will carry him a bit.

So that puts Button 4th or 5th in my opinion.
Really? I guess you could make that argument, but it must be pointed out that Red Bulls don't always finish where they qualify, mechanical failures DO visit teams and being around and keeping the car on the road is part of the game. Furthermore, you are insinuating Button isn't fast enough to stay with these guys. I guess his being faster than Hamilton in qualfying in the DRY in the same car means nothing?

Get over it...Button is a real a contender as any you have mentioned....

[Mia 01]

Its an opinion, and he may not be able to back it up with logical evidence but he did give the interview to ESPN who have published it as a news article. That sort of counts as news IMO.

That´s not what I meant. :s mokin:

[Mia 01]

Really? I guess you could make that argument, but it must be pointed out that Red Bulls don't always finish where they qualify, mechanical failures DO visit teams and being around and keeping the car on the road is part of the game. Furthermore, you are insinuating Button isn't fast enough to stay with these guys. I guess his being faster than Hamilton in qualfying in the DRY in the same car means nothing?

Get over it...Button is a real a contender as any you have mentioned....

Nope, you got it wrong, Jenson CAN not be as good as Lewis. For god sakes, he have only raced four race for MacLaren.

[Mia 01]

It does help when you elaborate on your opinion rather than posting a simple sentence that could quite honestly mean just about anything. ;) :s mokin:

Short sentences says a lot, most of the times. That´s me.

What about this one: Is it possible for Lewis to beat Jenson in quali and race in Spain?

Your answer is ofcourse: Yes.

I have my doubts.

[Saint Devote]

Nope, you got it wrong, Jenson CAN not be as good as Lewis. For god sakes, he have only raced four race for MacLaren.

That is not the point.

Prior to 2010 there were only two voices that declared Jenson could beat Hamilton. They were David Coulthard and Alan Jones.

The rest, aside from Jenson supporters obviously, said that from the start, Hamilton would "destroy" his new teammate. It is self-evident that this has not at all been the case.

And these races were run in difficult conditions. As the late James Hunt used to say - anyone can win when things are going well. By that at the time he referred to races that are straight forward - sunshine or rain from the start.

Aside from Bahrain, the last three races have been anything but.

Jenson is very happy with the Mclaren. He said that it has been improving and the team are engineering it more and more to his liking, How much we will see, but I will remind you that the last time he had a car that handled exactly to his liking in Spain, he not only zoomed to an amazing pole lap - one of the driver highlights of the year - but also won the race.

And at the end after China, was it not Lewis that said he is going to have to drive like Jenson effectively?

This week Kubica said that the new rules favour drivers like Jenson. I think that not only is Kubica as quick as Hamilton, but is like Jenson, a better racing driver with a defensive driving style that reminds me of Schumacher.

[Mia 01]

One moore opportunity this wekeend Jenson. Take it!!

[Valve Bounce]

One moore opportunity this wekeend Jenson. Take it!!

What about The Killing? Who is the killer?

[Saint Devote]

I was confident Lewis would dominate Button over the course of the season, but I also stated that there would be races where Button would finish ahead. I must admit I didn't think it would be this early but then again we are only (wait for it, wait for it), 4 races into the season.

I would say so far that Jenson has done the better job strategy wise, but feel Lewis has got the maximum out of the car in terms of raw pace. Lewis needs to buck his ideas up regarding qualifying IMO, and we must all keep an open mind as to how a season can change. As far as finishing ahead of each other its 2-2, and we are heading into the first European leg of the season where as we know from last year, things can change drastically. :)

Jenson has outqualified Lewis 3 - 1, I think Jenson has gotten the maximum out of the car as far as pace is concerned.

Clearly Hamilton recognizes he has a problem because he stated that he needs to adjust his driving style.

As the late James Hunt used to say, anyone can win when things are going well, a "normal" dry grand prix weekend or a "normal" wet race. Its when things are not business as usual that the better drivers shine through.

And as I stated before, Jenson is the better RACE driver of the two of them. And Jense will teach Lewis many things. I am sure he has learnt a great deal.

However, do not underestimate the value of what Jenson learnt when he drove all those terrible Honda cars - he is benefitting from that now.

But in China, even one of Lewis' pit stop decisions was uncertain - in the event he almost went OFF entering pit lane after being indecisive.

Yes, people get all excited over overtaking cars, but a driver considered like Lewis, should NOT have to work that hard.

He realizes it.

[Valve Bounce]

Actually, despite all the hypothesizing, I don't think we really fully understand how Bunsen compares with Lewis Hamilton yet. I await the performances over the next four races before I will commit myself one way or the other.

[Saint Devote]

Actually, despite all the hypothesizing, I don't think we really fully understand how Bunsen compares with Lewis Hamilton yet. I await the performances over the next four races before I will commit myself one way or the other.

And if the trend is unchanged then the next four?

[Saint Devote]

Qualifying is over a single lap and Jenson has been faster than Lewis in that instance. Plus the car is heavy with fuel before the burn off period. I am referring to the pace during the race and Lewis has been consistantly faster throughout all four rounds, and when you look at the live timings Lewis has driven the Mclaren alot harder than Jenson. All I was suggesting is that Lewis has been faster than Jenson more than the other way around. That was what I meant when I referred to the maximum. :)

Jenson has not needed to be quickest and has not HAD to drive the car harder. Jense has limited himself to merely winning two grands prix and leading the world championship in the same period - the first reigning driver to do so since Alonso in 2006. I agree that he really ought to be taken to task for underperforming the little w***er :s mokin:

[Saint Devote]

I don't quite know why you felt the need to insult Hamilton in that rather pointless post. I certainly do not lower myself to insult Jenson, and I've complimented him on his 2 victories. Saying Lewis is faster is a fact, but it doesn't change the result. My post was written with good intention and in no way was it designed to insult Jenson. Your use of insulting language should not be tolerated on here. :rolleyes:

Hamilton is one of Jenson's fiercest competitors.

If Lewis considers it okay to go head to head with Vettel in pit lane or drives as he does on track, then my "attacking him" in the heat of battle during a season, is no different.

Its a rugby scrum!

Lets not get all cream puffy here! Lewis Hamilton is fair game :vader:

[F1boat]

And if the trend is unchanged then the next four?

This will mean that Jenson likely is the best driver in F1 today.

[Saint Devote]

This will mean that Jenson likely is the best driver in F1 today.

:D We know that already!

[Mia 01]

Theres a good chance that it will rain on sunday.

[Mia 01]

Well. it seems like Seb will win this.

Try harder Jenson

[F1boat]

Well. it seems like Seb will win this.

Try harder Jenson

let's wait for the race...

[Mia 01]

RBR is superior.

Then Ferrari, Mercedes and MacLaren. Poor Lewis, perhaps a new title 2020.

[F1boat]

RBR may lap everyone tomorrow, or may retire. Let's wait for the race.

[UltimateDanGTR]

RBR may lap everyone tomorrow, or may retire. Let's wait for the race.

I tend to agree. If 1 or both of them do retire, I still can't see how they would retire without being a long way ahead. I hope for a good battle between team mates but then again one might gain the inititive, I can see Vettel jumping Webber and storming off.

The only way I see a non red bull car winning tomorrow is if they dissapear then both retire, or someone gets an almighty leap from behind and can lead into turn 1 and then somehow endlessly defend, but i doubt that.

[F1boat]

I can see Vettel jumping Webber and storming off.


I really hope that Mark will this time close the door and won't let his teammate to go ahead.

[Mia 01]

I really hope that Mark will this time close the door and won't let his teammate to go ahead.

Mark should be worried about Alonso And Lewis instead. The red mist will hit both of them at the start.

[F1boat]

In the end Mark had no worries.

[Daniel]

What a sore loser. Anyone's fault but his :rotflmao:

[Mia 01]

One moore. Jenson won the inteam battle today. Moore points to him.

[Dave B]

One moore. Jenson won the inteam battle today. Moore points to him.
More points on the scoreboard, certainly, but Lewis owned Jenson today. He'd worked his way up to P2 before his failure, while Jenson was stuck behind a Mercedes which was at least a second per lap slower than the likes of Vettel and Alonso ahead.

I'm yet to hear a valid reason for Button's inability to pass Schumacher, and am aware that they may be more to it, but this weekend it was Hamilton who was the superior McLaren driver. The statistics don't reflect the reality.

[Daniel]

More points on the scoreboard, certainly, but Lewis owned Jenson today. He'd worked his way up to P2 before his failure, while Jenson was stuck behind a Mercedes which was at least a second per lap slower than the likes of Vettel and Alonso ahead.

I'm yet to hear a valid reason for Button's inability to pass Schumacher, and am aware that they may be more to it, but this weekend it was Hamilton who was the superior McLaren driver. The statistics don't reflect the reality.
Yes, only a victory on paper today for Jenson over Lewis. As others have said, on a dry day with nothing silly happening Lewis will beat Jenson 9 times out of 10.

[Retro Formula 1]

More points on the scoreboard, certainly, but Lewis owned Jenson today. He'd worked his way up to P2 before his failure, while Jenson was stuck behind a Mercedes which was at least a second per lap slower than the likes of Vettel and Alonso ahead.

I'm yet to hear a valid reason for Button's inability to pass Schumacher, and am aware that they may be more to it, but this weekend it was Hamilton who was the superior McLaren driver. The statistics don't reflect the reality.

Lewis was breathtaking again today but in fairness to Jenson,, everyone was a second behind the Bulls today and getting past Schumacher on a similar pace car at Barcelona was a big ask for anyone.

[Garry Walker]

What a sore loser. Anyone's fault but his :rotflmao:
Who are you referring to and why?


Lewis was breathtaking again today but in fairness to Jenson,, everyone was a second behind the Bulls today and getting past Schumacher on a similar pace car at Barcelona was a big ask for anyone.

Red Bulls were not one second per lap quicker than other cars today, far from that.

[Garry Walker]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83485

Button: I didn't really know where Michael was on the outside of me. He turned in and if I didn't back out of it we would have crashed. So he didn't really give me a lot of room there. There you go, you'd think with his experience he would know. It wasn't really the right move.



Exactly, Michael did use his experiences. He knew button would back off at once and that was it. He would have thought twice about pulling such a move on a racer like Hamilton or Webber.

[Daniel]

Who are you referring to and why?

Jenson's interview after the race with the BBC......

He basically said that Schumacher was driving unfairly :rotflmao:

[Mia 01]

A 50 second lead by Hamilton before he retired?? :laugh:
Really?

Give me proof that Lewis didn´t worn out his front left tire.

He should have known that after moore than 45 laps it was a bit fragile.

[SGWilko]

Give me proof that Lewis didn´t worn out his front left tire.

He should have known that after moore than 45 laps it was a bit fragile.

Touche - prove he did.

[Daniel]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83485

Button: I didn't really know where Michael was on the outside of me. He turned in and if I didn't back out of it we would have crashed. So he didn't really give me a lot of room there. There you go, you'd think with his experience he would know. It wasn't really the right move.



Exactly, Michael did use his experiences. He knew button would back off at once and that was it. He would have thought twice about pulling such a move on a racer like Hamilton or Webber.
Exactly. Button is reigning WDC and as such believes the hype about himself and thinks that everyone else should just get out of the way because he's so quick.

[Robinho]

i thought exactly that when i heard Button said that - Michael used all his experience in knowing he would win in that little battle of wills, and i'm one of Buttons fans/apologists!

if it had been Hamilton they both would have ended up in the kitty litter as they both would have wanted to stamp their authority on each other.

[ioan]

Jenson's interview after the race with the BBC......

He basically said that Schumacher was driving unfairly :rotflmao:

I agree with Jensy, it was unfair, next time MS should drive with only one hand, close one eye and play the piano in order to make it a fair battle with Bunsy. ;)

[Mia 01]

Jenson is a good and fair man, fast to.

He is not playing dirty tricks at other drivers like some others do (2).

In the end this will pay off.

Others can do the jumping and pumping.

[Valve Bounce]

Jenson is a good and fair man, fast too.

He is not playing dirty tricks at other drivers like some others do (2).

In the end this will pay off.

Others can do the jumping and pumping.

Yeah! reminds me of Lund.

[SGWilko]

MS should drive with only one hand, close one eye and play the piano

I understand Ross put a stop to all that, and the increased speed is the result..... ;)

Sorry, could not resist.... :)

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm yet to hear a valid reason for Button's inability to pass Schumacher...
Wasn't it the familiar 'get close, then hit the dirty air' reason? That said, I'm surprised the McLaren didn't have more of a straightline advantage, but perhaps that was due to MS's skill at managing his pace when it mattered.

...this weekend it was Hamilton who was the superior McLaren driver.
Had Button made it past the Mercedes then he may have been more of a threat, but he didn't so he wasn't. Lewis drove a blinder and deserved that podium finish.

[ShiftingGears]

I really hope that Mark will this time close the door and won't let his teammate to go ahead.

From the Channel One interview of Webber on the saturday he said with the old mirrors which were next to impossible to see, he could not know for certain where Vettel was and did not want to risk taking them both out.

[ioan]

I understand Ross put a stop to all that, and the increased speed is the result..... ;)

Sorry, could not resist.... :)

:rotflmao: Good one! :up:

[Saint Devote]

Jenson is a good and fair man, fast to.

He is not playing dirty tricks at other drivers like some others do (2).

In the end this will pay off.

Others can do the jumping and pumping.

Indeed.

The two drivers are not exactly on friendly terms. Jenson is on public record for stating that he would never use the dirty tactics that Schumacher has always.

Secondly, at a press meeting after the Chinese Grand Prix he made fun of Schumacher's performance when talking to Lewis and they both had a big chuckle!

I suspect, that Schumacher does NOT forget that and Jense used his good judgement to not indulge the expert of dirty tactics on track. In the end he scored valuable points despite a dragging clutch and the slow pit stop.

[Garry Walker]

Indeed.

The two drivers are not exactly on friendly terms. Jenson is on public record for stating that he would never use the dirty tactics that Schumacher has always.

Secondly, at a press meeting after the Chinese Grand Prix he made fun of Schumacher's performance when talking to Lewis and they both had a big chuckle!



It is funny how every time button and ms meet on track, Schumacher destroys Button. Spain 2010, Canada 2005, Imola 2004 and so on. Schumacher loves having his own bitch like button is.

[PSfan]

Indeed.

The two drivers are not exactly on friendly terms. Jenson is on public record for stating that he would never use the dirty tactics that Schumacher has always.


Did he really say that!?!?!... Let me look that up.... HE DID!!! BWA HA HAHA HA what an idiot...


But asked if he would do the same, Button, 29, blasted: "That was Schumacher. It's not me.

"It wouldn't mean so much to me if I forced another driver off or did something during the season like stopping the car on the circuit.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/2664577/Jenson-Button-Id-never-cheat-to-win-title.html#ixzz0nfR0IoZU

wow, that was neat, I didn't actually add the "read more + web addy" that just magically appeared...

where was I... oh yah, Button would never cheat... hahahahahahahaha... Man today is a good day... would be much better if the forum archives worked... You see, I clearly remember some 4 or 5 years ago making fun of Button (and shutting up one of his fans in the process) when the idiot was quoted as saying that he would indeed consider ramming a competitor off track if it resulted in a championship... now he says NEVER!!! hahahahahahaha

And for a while I thought it couldn't get any better then someone saying he doesn't drive dirty so soon after the safety car BS... but there really is a Santa!!! (I just don't recall the last time he posted on here was :cheese: )

[AndyL]

You see, I clearly remember some 4 or 5 years ago making fun of Button (and shutting up one of his fans in the process) when the idiot was quoted as saying that he would indeed consider ramming a competitor off track if it resulted in a championship... now he says NEVER!!! hahahahahahaha

Hands up everyone who has never contradicted something they said 4 or 5 years ago :p
Now he already has a championship, I can imagine that would change his perspective on what he'd do to win another.

[Saint Devote]

I would think its water off a ducks back to be honest. I think racing drivers have thicker skins than many of their fans and don't let tittle tattle enter their mindset during a race. ;) :)

During a race is when "justice" is meeted out - they forget nothing.

But otherwise offtrack?

Do you remember the KING of insecurity? Ayrton Senna.
Then of course there is a certain Fernando Alonso - Mr. Thin Skin himself.
And there are the Piquets...........

"Forgiving and forgetting" is meeted out when opportunity arrives on track.

Welcome to the real world - and the hand of "justice" the FIA.

[Saint Devote]

It is funny how every time button and ms meet on track, Schumacher destroys Button. Spain 2010, Canada 2005, Imola 2004 and so on. Schumacher loves having his own bitch like button is.

Aside from your disrespect towards both Schumi and Jense, I hope your children do not read your posts.

[Saint Devote]

How do you know?

Aside from their actions?

Senna - Mike Doodson and Alain Prost.
The rest - you are kidding right?

These are all nornal people with human virtues and vices as well as emotions.

[F1boat]

I'm still trying to understand the Schumacher vs Button rift you have highlighted in this thread

Send a mail to the "Sun".

[Valve Bounce]

How do you know?

Direct line to The Almighty! ;)

[Mia 01]

Yes pray for rain an it will be given, on Saturday an Sunday that is.

I´m a bit worried for Lewis, Jenson will be just fine.

[Mia 01]

Why would you be worried about Lewis if it rains? :confused:

Well you know, all that sliding over the higher cirbs could lead to another rim failure.

[Mia 01]

Well considering thats only forum talk about 'banging kerbs' and causing rim failure I very much doubt it. Plus there are not enough high speed corners at Monaco to put enough strain on the rim in the event that debris, a loose wheel nut, or a manufacturing fault has weakened it. Jenson uses the same rims too, so maybe he should be cautious.

Plus lets not forget that Lewis is a previous Monaco winner and achieved that in a wet race.. ;)

Yup, you are right. But its a bit different this year, the FIA don´t like drivers to shortcut corners over the kerbs as they use to. But ofcourse Lewis will try it, I hope it works.

[Saint Devote]

Well considering thats only forum talk about 'banging kerbs' and causing rim failure I very much doubt it. Plus there are not enough high speed corners at Monaco to put enough strain on the rim in the event that debris, a loose wheel nut, or a manufacturing fault has weakened it. Jenson uses the same rims too, so maybe he should be cautious.

Plus lets not forget that Lewis is a previous Monaco winner and achieved that in a wet race.. ;)

Lewis whacked the wall and had to stop for a new wheel - he was fortunate not to have damaged the suspension.

It was the safety car period that neutralized the situation for him.

He has yet to win the Monaco Grand Prix in a champions fashion.

[Saint Devote]

Why would you be worried about Lewis if it rains? :confused:

Perhaps because Lewis had not performed as well and became extremely flustered under pressure in Australia, lashing out at his team. Looks like he joined the Rubens team.

[Valve Bounce]

Now Now!! you can't sail much closer to the wind than 45 degrees you know.

[jens]

If we are talking about Hamilton v Button battle in this thread, then the Spanish GP is a good example, how tiny details can create a huge difference and a completely different perception of a driver. Before pitstops Button looked actually almost as fast as Hamilton and it could be argued Alonso might have distracted his pace a bit.

But a botched pitstop, while Lewis had a perfect one and... LH in P2, JB in P6 and before the accident the gap between them was almost 50 seconds...

[Mia 01]

Come on Jenson, you can secure a top spot today.

Show Lewis what guts is.

[ShiftingGears]

He has yet to win the Monaco Grand Prix in a champions fashion.

Don't be ridiculous. He won without steward intervention. A win is a win.

[Valve Bounce]

What is the definition of "Win the Monaco Grand Prix in a champions fashion" ? I am confused by this because this implies the race can be won NOT in a champions fashion. :confused:

[steveaki13]

All the talk of not winning it in a Champions fashion is stupid, because if this was the type of win you need to be respected then half the wins in F1 history are not important.

In my view not many drivers who have competed in F1 have won a race, so any that have won a race are the top select few.

Any win makes a driver top level. IMO

[Saint Devote]

What is the definition of "Win the Monaco Grand Prix in a champions fashion" ? I am confused by this because this implies the race can be won NOT in a champions fashion. :confused:

Whacking the barrier and having to make a pit stop and then being assisted by a safety car period is not a champions drive.

But Lewis does have a habit of making heavy weather of things.

[Valve Bounce]

Whacking the barrier and having to make a pit stop and then being assisted by a safety car period is not a champions drive.

But Lewis does have a habit of making heavy weather of things.

If anyone can whack a barrier at Monaco, then make a pit stop, and still win the race, well I reckon that's not a bad effort. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was "Divine intervention" if the Good Lord sent a safety car out to help him win.

[Mia 01]

Jenson weill be back in Turkey!!

[Valve Bounce]

What's the weather forecast for Turkey?

[Saint Devote]

If anyone can whack a barrier at Monaco, then make a pit stop, and still win the race, well I reckon that's not a bad effort. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was "Divine intervention" if the Good Lord sent a safety car out to help him win.

You just validated my point - if anyone wins as you say, then it is most definitely not a champions drive.

[F1boat]

What's the weather forecast for Turkey?

Usually there is hot there.

[Saint Devote]

This is so petty.
I have a question, who actually cares?

I do.
It is around the minutae that debate is decided. As in racing, that 100th of second makes a difference :vader:

[Saint Devote]

What's the weather forecast for Turkey?

Possible dark clouds and thunder showers over the RBR camp.

The usual sunshine and light over Mclaren.

Rumbling thunder with occasional lightning with the sun peaking through occasionally at Ferrari.

Lifting clouds with bright sunshine around the edges at Brawn-Illmor.

Clouds continuing to lift at Renault.

[Daniel]

This is so petty.
I have a question, who actually cares?
My question is..... who replies to this troll?

[Valve Bounce]

Usually there is hot there.

Apparently not - it's supposed to be 20 degrees, which makes tyre wear on this most demanding track on tyres much easier to cope with.

[Tazio]

Apparently not - it's supposed to be 20 degrees, which makes tyre wear on this most demanding track on tyres much easier to cope with.According to my source, Sunday high temp will be C 27.2222222
Approximately :p

http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/extended/TUXX0014

[Saint Devote]

--Whether one driver won from pole and the other from third, it doesn't really matter. I think we should just enjoy the fact that two WDC's are side by side at Mclaren and both have won a prestigious race such as Monaco. It goes without saying.--

You are right.

Jenson and Lewis are just two different types of drivers. The current Mclaren team is similar to the Scheckter / Villeneuve years at Ferrari.

And I am sure that they will get along as well and achieve as much together.

Certainly it is great for F1 that we do have someone with an approach similar to the great Gilles.