Making Way For New Grands Prix

[philipbain]

Bernie Ecclestone has warned that races currently on the calendar will have to go to make way for new races: http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6083425/Bernie-We-re-going-to-lose-venues

My take on this is if you look at the history of Formula One there always has been a transition of races going to different venues and countries, some countries that were once a permanent fixture on the calendar are now long gone, South Africa and Argentina are good examples. So as I see it its about which events will fall off the calendar to make way for new races in the USA, India, Russia etc. Bernie has stated that the calendar will be extended to 20 GPs and we currently have 19.

As far as i'm concerned you could lose both of the spanish races without any detrimental effect to the spectacle of F1 as both Barcelona and Valencia have produced snoozefests in recent years, however public interest in Spain dictates that it should retain a Grand Prix and for me Barcelona can stay but please please please get rid of the revised end of the lap, it does nothing for racing and eliminates 2 corners that were fast and actually challenging for the drivers. The Valencia circuit is drab in the extreme, lacking in atmosphere, mainly because it has the ambience of a container port, because that pretty much what it is. the last sector is cool with the string of flat out corners but the rest of the track is dire point and squirt rubbish. It goes.

Unfortunately the days of the Turkish GP may be numbered, the locals have shown little interest despite the Istanbul Park Circuit being a genuinely excellent track that proved that given the topography Herman Tilke can design a track that is spectacular and produces wheel to wheel racing. But spectacle seems of less importance than political considerations and the fate of this race will be down to whether or not the Turkish government want to keep on subsidising an event that is poorly attended.

Also in my opinion you can scrap the Hungarian GP. For the first few years of it's running it had novelty value as it was in the eastern block and therefore had a genuine curiosity tag attached to it, but since the fall of the iron curtain and the integration of the former eastern block into the European Union the Hungarian GP has lost this cache and instead can be seen as a overly tight circuit that produces largely dull events. Only rain can make this race a thriller as Jenson Button proved by pulling off an unlikely victory from 14th on the grid back in 2006. I don't think many would miss it too much if it went.

At the same time as eliminating races it is important to ensure the preservation of key grand prix that hold a special place in F1. Monaco, Great Britain, Germany, Belgium & Italy in particular need to be retained, though Monaco has no problems and Great Britain now has a 17 year deal with new facilities to be ready for 2011. Germany isn't as secure as it maybe should be, despite having manufacturer interest and almost a quarter of the grid in driver strength there have been suggestions that Hockenheim in particular can't make it pay and the Nurburgring don't want to run it every year. Belgium is a real special case, as it hasn't produced an F1 driver in quite some time but its the majestic Spa circuit that make this one a must, it gives a hint back to a different time when circuit were grand and sprawling, flat out and dangerous. Spa is fantastic and special and must be kept on the calendar at all costs. Italy is a pure classic, Monza is so rich in history and the Italians are so passionate that F1 without the Italian GP would be plain wrong.

Any other opinions on what races should stay or go?

[ioan]

Bernie Ecclestone has warned that races currently on the calendar will have to go to make way for new races: http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6083425/Bernie-We-re-going-to-lose-venues

He's just preparing to ask for more money from those who are going to have to renew their contracts soon.

[Saint Devote]

Its a pity that there is no real interest in F1 beyond a strong small core army of fans in the United States.

If a grand prix could be organized around the streets of Manhattan it would be super - as long as the idiot glitterati and empty headed trendclones who populate Manhattan in droves are not given special treatment.

Organize it around the American FANS Bernie, those people who supported your show when even the BBC used to show edited highlights only. Remember those days? I do.

But it wont happen - too many palms require greasing and some are impossible to deal with, like the paranoid environmental droids that are MANY and live all over Manhattan. Its also the noise - its just not on.

But that there is now going to be a grand prix in Korea and still no US GP - as someone that loves motor racing and its history, I find that offensive.

Other than Monte Carlo, Monza, Spa-Francorchamps, Silverstone and Suzuka, I would not care what race is dropped if it meant the inclusion of a US GP again. And please, PLEASE, never ever that horrible road circuit at Indianapolis.

F1 should never have been held at Indy because it was bad form. F1 always looked like the second show. The sport did not deserve that again - remember the car park in Las Vegas? Oi vegas!!

[philipbain]

But it wont happen - too many palms require greasing and some are impossible to deal with, like the paranoid environmental droids that are MANY and live all over Manhattan. Its also the noise - its just not on.

As I understand it the race won't be in Manhattan, or New York at all infact, but across the water in New Jersey, so Manhattan will be the backdrop without the race actually being in Manhattan, which is probably a much more workable compromise.

[Saint Devote]

As I understand it the race won't be in Manhattan, or New York at all infact, but across the water in New Jersey, so Manhattan will be the backdrop without the race actually being in Manhattan, which is probably a much more workable compromise.

In last week's Autosport Bernie was reported to have said "through the streets of Manhattan".......

In New Jersey across the Hudson there is significant land in the Meadowlands area. Located there is the new Giants stadium and has excellent facilities.

It is a FLAT expanse of area with a surround fairly commercially built up.

Compared to the streets of NYC expect another flat featureless track. It would be something at least, but is in reality an insult to the proud history of the US Grand Prix. And I do not like New Jersey anyway.

If this is the best available so be it, but I don't think it will fly either - the environmentalists will attack because there is I think a wildlife sanctuary somewhere.

Honestly, I have no reason to think a US GP anywhere close to NYC is probable.

I would like to see Panoz arrange to upgrade Road Atlanta and hold a US GP there in the state of Georgia. It is a track with history, a warm climate, people that understand motor racing and extremely pretty - but then I like Georgia.

[Firstgear]

Spain will probably keep two races as long as Alonso is a top driver, just like Germany when Schum was at the top.

I thought the Hungarian race was still there purely because of the grid girls. :p

Most others, except places like Monaco & Monza will come and go depending on where the money is. That means, a country with a hot economy with a government willing to spend, or the birth country of a hot new driver.

If Vettel was South African, we'd probably be seeing a race there again in the next year or two.

[V12]

Lose: Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Turkey
Add: France (ahead of GB, Italy and the rest in terms of importance IMO, they were here first) US, one in Argentina, Mexico or South Africa.

Ha, I wish :rolleyes:

I'd also like to see the permanent Valencia race make way for a proper "European GP" that rotates between a second race in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, and Spain itself.

[Valve Bounce]

He's just preparing to ask for more money from those who are going to have to renew their contracts soon.

............or gouge more money from those new countries that want to stage F1 races. This is how Greedy Bernie works. :(

[UltimateDanGTR]

we need races in:
USA
Mexico
Argentina
France
(all again)
plus you could have races in south africa and portugal in my ideal world (and if/when brendon hartley gets to f1, new zealand?)

anyhoo, GP's we dont need:
Valencia
China
Bahrain
Turkey
Hungary (even if it is a good fan attraction for the race, dull track)

and i suspect give us a few years and you could add India, South Korea and Rome to that list.

too many races in asia nowadays. ive said it before and now ive said it again.

I think the perfect balanced calender would have: 3 in north america (mexico, usa and canada) 2 in south america (argentina and brazil), 1 in oceania (aussies) either 3 in asia (japan, malaysia, abi dhabi or singapore) and 1 in africa (south africa) and then up to 10 in europe (britain, france, italy, germany, spain, portugal, belgium and others possibly like scandinavia or keeping hungary for the fans that go there)

notice i would keep 1 race out of either abu dhabi or singapore. the night thing is a good spectacle, even if on slightly bland circuits, but 1 race a year in such places can't be too bad.

plus you could always have 2 us gp's.

whatever the case though, prices to host gp's should be ALOT cheaper, and so prices for attending the races would be ALOT cheaper, so people in asian countries may actually turn up...(bar Japan, who have fans turn up anyway.)

[snellman]

finland needs one :mad:

[ioan]

Looks like we would need at least 30 races to accommodate everyone's wishes!
I think people are way to demanding.

[Shifter]

It's hard to argure for the elimination of Hungary where the fans do love the event. IMO, the only difference between Monaco and Hungary is the glamour factor, and at both tracks, even if passing is difficult, I for one really enjoy watching F1 at both places because of the driver skill involved.

USGP, sure, but our best circuits, however safe they may be, still require millions of $$ of upgrades and even then are still too far outside major metro areas. If it's going to happen, its a street circuit for certain, and probably in the southern U.S. where weenie enviro-nuts are too scared of being beaten up to speak out against racing. Also, I imagine with Montreal on the schedule it would make sense to run it in the south or west.

Considering the collossal investment every country makes, it's difficult to argue for any race to be axed. If I had my choice, it would be Turkey, because the fans aren't showing up and it would send a message that places without much fan interest should be wary of making the investment.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Strange...the guy from Britain thinks that Europe should have 10 races, North America 3, Asia 3 and two in South America.

What makes Europe more valid in today's marketplace than any other continent? Mmmm History maybe, and i? would have to say I would be all for 6 based on this, but maybe 10 is valid only if you put one of the races in Scandinavia, and you don't be giving two races to Spain or Germany.

The point is, Bernie takes this show to places where they will give him large amounts of money, often GOVERNMENT money to host the races. It is clear to me he doesn't really give a rat's behind if the fans are in the stands, because if he did, he would be horrified by the lousy attendance in Turkey and China.

The economical model to sustain the races doesn't work without government support for any of the new events because Bernie wont do what is best for the sport as well as his pocketbook.

I would love to see another USGP, but NOT in Manhattan. It is a pipe dream there and people have to grasp that no one cares much about sport in Manhatten save the odd trip to MSG for a Rangers or Knicks game, or the Yankee's in the summer. Motorsport is far below the radar in in the NYC area it isn't even funny. Putting F1 in there would do great things for the myth of how everything should happen in New York City, but the reality would be a lot of disinterest. The Meadowlands didn't work for CART, and I cannot see anyone ponying up the money to build garages/pits in the style F1 demands for a race Bernie might up and pull out with 4 years later. Americans are too smart for Bernie's little game and THAT is why they don't have a regular date. Tony George, as much as I don't like the man had the best possible business plan for the USGP and had 200000 SEATS he could sell and he still couldn't make this race work economically.

F1 is an unsustainable circus when you have Bernie demanding things for his series that no the race series on the planet would demand. Why? Just because it looks better. Well the sad reality is, the reason we have a rotation of one new emerging nation after another stepping up is because it makes sense for their governments to pour down Bernie's rat hole to subsidize some races to get on the world's radar. The USA doesn't need to do that.

If Bernie is reasonable with his fees, as he was when he realized he needed Montreal FAR more than Montreal needed him, then races work.

Personally here is my wish list of races:

Melbourne
Suzuka
Britain (a must no matter what happens)
France (a crime they are NOT on the circuit)
Belgium (Spa only a MUST!)
Germany
Monte Carlo (a tradition..but a lousy race..but could double up as the French GP in a sense)
Italy
Spain
Scanadinavia (two Finn's are WDC's yet they haven't seen a race in that part of the world since Anderstorp?)
Russia
USA ( build a venue for f1, keep Tilke away from it, and commit yourself to the American Market long term)
Canada
Brazil
Argentina
China (provided they have fans and don't allow Tilke to build them any more boring race tracks)

Abu Dhabi alternates with Bahrain
India.
South Korea
South Africa.

There...I think I hit every continent and hit some historically important markets that have been ignored.

Make teams be more flexable in how they operate at circuits. Make pit facilities that are f1 specific maybe a thing in the past, and a lot of the circuits you don't have under consideration now will become interested.

This series should be bigger in some ways than it is, and by getting people to see the racing live in large numbers, this will help in the long run for TV. Keeping races on per country always would help too.

Oh ya...and avoiding this myth that the f1 circuit is the greatest RACING going. It isn't often that good, and it is a great series with amazing machines, but the on track product must be more compelling than it often has in the past. Do all that, and sky's the limit..

[UltimateDanGTR]

Strange...the guy from Britain thinks that Europe should have 10 races, North America 3, Asia 3 and two in South America.



do you mean me or bernie on that one?

If you meant me, then notice i said 'up to' 10 races, any more would be silly IMO.

In an ideal world of course, Bernie would be a reasonable bloke and not charge extortionate fees for grands prix, thus we would have more races where F1 has more history and is relevant, which means more races in the americas.

and then tracks wouldn't have to charge insane prices to the fans, so the fans in countries new to F1 might actually turn up, and the tracks might actually make a bit of profit.

but one can dream....

[N. Jones]

I wish some GPs would come back (US, Portugal, Imola) and that some new tracks would go away.

[Sonic]

Looks like we would need at least 30 races to accommodate everyone's wishes!


Indeed. There is no way with reasonable logistics to get every desired race on the grid.

A reasonable compromise IMO would see a true Euro GP that alternated venue, to be joined by a couple of other alternating GP's - perhaps a Pacific area GP and an Americas GP.

that ontop of the 16/17 regular races would allow best of both worlds - history and new (or returning) venues.

Sadly money talks so that won't happen.

[goodf1fun]

Its a pity that there is no real interest in F1 beyond a strong small core army of fans in the United States.

If a grand prix could be organized around the streets of Manhattan it would be super - as long as the idiot glitterati and empty headed trendclones who populate Manhattan in droves are not given special treatment.

Organize it around the American FANS Bernie, those people who supported your show when even the BBC used to show edited highlights only. Remember those days? I do.

But it wont happen - too many palms require greasing and some are impossible to deal with, like the paranoid environmental droids that are MANY and live all over Manhattan. Its also the noise - its just not on.

But that there is now going to be a grand prix in Korea and still no US GP - as someone that loves motor racing and its history, I find that offensive.

Other than Monte Carlo, Monza, Spa-Francorchamps, Silverstone and Suzuka, I would not care what race is dropped if it meant the inclusion of a US GP again. And please, PLEASE, never ever that horrible road circuit at Indianapolis.

F1 should never have been held at Indy because it was bad form. F1 always looked like the second show. The sport did not deserve that again - remember the car park in Las Vegas? Oi vegas!!


You still believe that F1 can survive in US? One grand prix and they lost it, one team was the joke of the year.

[D28]

I would like to see Panoz arrange to upgrade Road Atlanta and hold a US GP there in the state of Georgia. It is a track with history, a warm climate, people that understand motor racing and extremely pretty - but then I like Georgia.

Mr. Panoz is a very sucessful businessman, who didn't get that way by investing in ventures with no possible return. The very fact that Bernie is threatening recent partners after they have spent millions in facilities, should caution most prudent investors. Bernie's economic model works best if you use other peoples' money (government investment). This model is not applicable to the US. The Tony George saga is too recent for American investors to be seduced into a F1 scheme with Bernie.

[Saint Devote]

You still believe that F1 can survive in US? One grand prix and they lost it, one team was the joke of the year.

The only reason F1 "survives" in most of the countries today is through government directing taxes towards the sport. I disapprove of that and I think it ought to stop.

The calendar would look very different and probably similar to the way it did prior to government involvement. Bernie took it there because he realized he could boost the asking price well above its value.

The result was the destruction of the calendar slewed towards the traditional tracks.

Unfortunately it also associated F1 with entities that have no regard for human rights and absolutely no interest in motor racing.

But there was no complaint from F1 teams because the deals made by Bernie improved facilities and made all extremely wealthy.

Should Bernie be codemned for walking with tyrants? It can be argued on moral grounds, but certainly not that he is demanding an unfair price. Under the circumstances the organizers could have said no, and when have statist governments ever been concerned about wasting money?

It is against this backdrop that the US struggles to secure and keep a grand prix going. Can the US do it? Of course. F1 has fourished in the past with FOUR grands prix at the peak. It has had THREE top drivers on the grid in the past and two world champions - a great history and better than most nations including Germany and France, in a country where F1 is nowhere really and not even trying too hard.

There IS a solution out there, it just takes the desire to discover it.

The day the US really becomes interested in F1 - improbable I know - then it will become giant. No sport, that Americans really decide to compete in, ultimately does not end in American victory.

Anyone that knows that great nation well, will realize that not winning is something Americans generally detest. America itself, is not an accident.

I love motor racing and I do love the United States and the American people - surely the most generous and tolerant in the world.

And that there is a Korean grand prix or Chinese grand prix or a Bahrain or Bu Dhabi grand prix, yet no US GP, is really a disgrace.

How to attract and retain auto manufacturers in F1 - and under the cost control rules as they are? Have at least ONE United States Grand Prix - ideally one on the East coast and another on teh West, like it was once.

And perhaps, the auto manufacturers themselves can join together, and maybe even with oil companies and tyre companies, and organized by someone like Peter Uberoth, and fund a long time contract with Bernie.

It is after all the greatest consumer market in the world and the largest most powerful economy.

Just an idea but something can work and the WDC will not be "whole" until there is once again a US GP.

[Roamy]

I wish some GPs would come back (US, Portugal, Imola) and that some new tracks would go away.

Oh you want the thrill and history of the sport to prevail. Amen brother I have been to Portugal and Imola and will have that etched in my memory forever.

BTW the only way F1 works in the US is Watkins Glen - I just don't know what is so hard about this. Maybe I need a "MOP" haircut and get beat with a WHIP :)

[markabilly]

:D
I wish some GPs would come back (US, Portugal, Imola) and that some new tracks would go away. :D

[ShiftingGears]

Having a European Grand Prix at Imola without chicanes would be fantastic. It will never happen again though, which is a shame.

[markabilly]

Its a pity that there is no real interest in F1 beyond a strong small core army of fans in the United States.

And please, PLEASE, never ever that horrible road circuit at Indianapolis.

F1 should never have been held at Indy because it was bad form. F1 always looked like the second show. The sport did not deserve that again - remember the car park in Las Vegas? Oi vegas!!

Indy pulled in some of the largest crowds for an F1 race compared to any other track in the world. Then tire gate happenned and Bernie wanted even more money after peeing in the face of fans

And until all the diffusers and so forth, cut down on the ability to draft, the passing going into Turn one was excellent when the series first started. .... Loved the track and the atmosphere....the v10 screaming down the straight esp during friday practice with the sound resonating off the grandstands was incredible

As to flat New York and such other surrounding areas..using the parking lot at a football stadium???..what a joke. Might as well call it autocrossing...

Same for Melborne and other such street circuits. The only street circuit that has anything to really offer remains Monaco...

The champ car race in Houston between the concrete barriers is what we are getting ready to have happen if the NY deal really does go forward. :down:

yeah there may be better tracks in the USA than Indy...I think immediattely of my fav, esp before they did those "improvements", Seca......and others, but NY??????

[Saint Devote]

Indy pulled in some of the largest crowds for an F1 race compared to any other track in the world. Then tire gate happenned and Bernie wanted even more money after peeing in the face of fans

And until all the diffusers and so forth, cut down on the ability to draft, the passing going into Turn one was excellent when the series first started. .... Loved the track and the atmosphere....the v10 screaming down the straight esp during friday practice with the sound resonating off the grandstands was incredible

As to flat New York and such other surrounding areas..using the parking lot at a football stadium???..what a joke. Might as well call it autocrossing...

Same for Melborne and other such street circuits. The only street circuit that has anything to really offer remains Monaco...

The champ car race in Houston between the concrete barriers is what we are getting ready to have happen if the NY deal really does go forward. :down:

yeah there may be better tracks in the USA than Indy...I think immediattely of my fav, esp before they did those "improvements", Seca......and others, but NY??????

Any track well situated would attract good crowds - the track itself is ugly and it is not the home of F1. I am an F1 elitist and have no regard for F1 to be placed anywhere where F1 is not the top and only one.

NYC is not Houston or Melbourne...........

[D28]

Any track well situated would attract good crowds - the track itself is ugly and it is not the home of F1. I am an F1 elitist and have no regard for F1 to be placed anywhere where F1 is not the top and only one.

NYC is not Houston or Melbourne...........

We come back to the point that Indy already has the track and facilities in place, ready to race. Ugly or not, the circuit doesn't appear any worse than some of the current venues. Bernie is playing a rapidly diminishing hand; every year of absense, F1 becomes a harder sell. If he is serious about a US GP, and that is arguable, he must come to terms with the Indy owners for reasonabe race prices. The race would have to coincide with the June timing for Canada.
I agree that the probable home of F1 racing should be Watkins Glen, but F1, for a host of reasons will not go there. Same story for Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Road America, or any traditional road racing facility mentioned.
Quite a few pointed out last week that the NYC-NJ venue is very unlikely to happen. IMO it has no credibility whatever. The last thing in the world F1 needs is another temporary urban circuit.
I'm afraid it is Indy or nothing.

[Saint Devote]

We come back to the point that Indy already has the track and facilities in place, ready to race. Ugly or not, the circuit doesn't appear any worse than some of the current venues. Bernie is playing a rapidly diminishing hand; every year of absense, F1 becomes a harder sell. If he is serious about a US GP, and that is arguable, he must come to terms with the Indy owners for reasonabe race prices. The race would have to coincide with the June timing for Canada.
I agree that the probable home of F1 racing should be Watkins Glen, but F1, for a host of reasons will not go there. Same story for Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Road America, or any traditional road racing facility mentioned.
Quite a few pointed out last week that the NYC-NJ venue is very unlikely to happen. IMO it has no credibility whatever. The last thing in the world F1 needs is another temporary urban circuit.
I'm afraid it is Indy or nothing.

It is Bernie who declared that F1 does not need a US GP, and he is correct really. I'd like a US GP for traditional reasons - the US has a great motor racing tradition and has had more world champions than Germany!

You used the word "urban"?? It is still street racing in my view. Interlagos which is a proper racing circuit is in the middle of an urban versus a rural area.

And the connotations of the word "urban" in the contemporary culture is the unsavory and dysfunctional one of "gangsta" with all the disgusting elements attached, "B"!

[airshifter]

We come back to the point that Indy already has the track and facilities in place, ready to race. Ugly or not, the circuit doesn't appear any worse than some of the current venues. Bernie is playing a rapidly diminishing hand; every year of absense, F1 becomes a harder sell. If he is serious about a US GP, and that is arguable, he must come to terms with the Indy owners for reasonabe race prices. The race would have to coincide with the June timing for Canada.
I agree that the probable home of F1 racing should be Watkins Glen, but F1, for a host of reasons will not go there. Same story for Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Road America, or any traditional road racing facility mentioned.
Quite a few pointed out last week that the NYC-NJ venue is very unlikely to happen. IMO it has no credibility whatever. The last thing in the world F1 needs is another temporary urban circuit.
I'm afraid it is Indy or nothing.


I'd have to agree with this. Though I was no fan of the Indy circuit it does draw crowds and already exists. I was ready to go myself, but the tiregate fiasco was the beginning of the end. To be honest, after that incident I feel that it would be far fetched to even think a deal could be made at Indy any time in the near future.

I'd really like to see F1 back at one of the better tracks mentioned above, but can't see it happening. If a major city takes things seriously it's a small possibility in my eyes, but I can't see NY being that city. They have enough financial issues as is, as more than enough draws to bring in tourists without a race.

[V12]

I wish some GPs would come back (US, Portugal, Imola) and that some new tracks would go away.

Very nicely and succinctly put! :up:

[steveaki13]

French GP back, A rotating European GP back, Argentina GP back, USA GP back. For me!

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is Bernie who declared that F1 does not need a US GP, and he is correct really. I'd like a US GP for traditional reasons - the US has a great motor racing tradition and has had more world champions than Germany!

You used the word "urban"?? It is still street racing in my view. Interlagos which is a proper racing circuit is in the middle of an urban versus a rural area.

And the connotations of the word "urban" in the contemporary culture is the unsavory and dysfunctional one of "gangsta" with all the disgusting elements attached, "B"!

Listen, I enjoyed your passionate plea for a US GP. I agree, the F1 world is a better one with a US GP on the calender.

The issue really lies though with F1. I have said this a number of times, New York isn't into racing. It doesn't NEED any form of racing. They had ISC begging to put an oval in Staten Island for NASCAR, a much more popular form of racing among the working class of America, and New Yorkers basically told ISC to go pound sand. You want a track, no matter how bad to be build as a temporary circuit to support an F1 race. It was tried in the 80's with CART. They put a track in the Meadowlands and the whole thing bombed after 3 or 4 years. The track was awful and CART at the time was very popular, and didn't demand the creature comforts a f1 event would.

The sport NEEDS the USA and so does Bernie if he is honest with anyone, but tiregate and the reality of the people he will have to deal with wont let him come back. Bernie wants a lot of money on a circuit with garages right on the pit lane (a European/f1 convention that isn't followed in all the US circuits save the garages behind the wall in pit lane at Indy). This requires a lot of modification to an existing circuit (not to mention safety upgrades only f1 would demand)at great cost. So no one track owner in the US will bite this bullet unless he had a guarntee for 10 or more years that the US GP would be there.

Bernie wont do it, and he wants to always extract more money all the time. His outright greed wont work in the USA. No one is dumb enough to go down this road in the US. Tony George had the best chance to actually make money on f1 in America and I look how he was treated and I now think the only way f1 comes back is if Bernie is gone, and a more rational and much more forward thinking leader is there.

Americans are too smart to be sucked into the f1 greenmail game, and all the foreign despots don't care about whose money they waste on f1 circuits their people cannot afford to go see races on. Yaz Marina, Bahrain, Turkey, China are all spectacular circuits in many ways, and yet they I suspect have very limited turnstile numbers. Racing is meant to be a sport for the masses. The greatest events for the most part are the ones with the most people there, and 400000 used to be in the stands for the Indy 500, and likely over 300000 will be there this May. No GP draws like that but in America, you are not a big deal if you don't have great attendance and you don't put on a show. Sadly, Americans are not impressed by f1 apparently....at least, not enough to play the Bernie game...

[markabilly]

Yaz Marina, Bahrain, Turkey, China are all spectacular circuits in many ways, and yet they I suspect have very limited turnstile numbers. Racing is meant to be a sport for the masses. ...

Suspect????

The average attendance at US f1 at Indy was well over 125k people, and the last race saw about 125k tickets sold--even after the screwing over with tire gate----

turkey may have had a total of about 36,000 show up last year over three days.....maybe....as some say race day only had 9000 who actually paid show up on race day

China had about 85% of the grandstands empty....and that is with the free tickets (you how those communists are) and a population of 1.4 billion people---that total would have also been considerably less than Indy

[schmenke]

Ticket sales make up a relatively small portion of the total F1 revenues. The vast majority of the revenues is generated from the sale of television broadcast rights.
To this, Bernie adds the revenue from the contracts with venues to host the Grands Prix, which are independant of ticket sales. As long as he can negotiate a contract for several years, he is assured of his $'s.

[D28]

turkey may have had a total of about 36,000 show up last year over three days.....maybe....as some say race day only had 9000 who actually paid show up on race day

China had about 85% of the grandstands empty....and that is with the free tickets (you how those communists are) and a population of 1.4 billion people---that total would have also been considerably less than Indy

These are startling numbers, does F1 ot the organizers release attendance, or are these estimates? I remember crowds of 90,000 camped at Watkins Glen in Oct, over 3 x the total attendance at Turkey, 40 years later. It begs the question why is F1 in these countries and not in the US. The races are obviously not for the fans, at least spectators, but for a TV audience.
F1 management likes to claim that Watkins Glen, Mosport, or Road Atlanta are in the middle of nowhere, but from a N. American perspective, it is places like Abu Dhabi which require an atlas to be properly located.
I agree with Mark that a US GP probably will have to await a new F1 management team.

[UltimateDanGTR]

It begs the question why is F1 in these countries and not in the US.

no it doesnt-such a question does not need to be asked. because we already know the answer.

I WISH bernie and the whole of F1 would realise that supersafe superdull circuits with epic facilities dont need to be the expectation for new or returning grands prix. massive run offs, huge pit garage facilities and tight corners are not what has to be, but some of the F1 fraternity including the great extortionist believe the opposite. the drivers are just like the fans IMO. they dont mind the close proximity of barriers it would seem or fast flowing corners. thats what the majority love and I'm pretty sure the teams would put up with non cutting edge facilities. they already do for some existing places (mainly european venues) so why should they expect anything more?

Hence, after all that, If bernie was to talk to the teams and drivers, he'd probably realise they would be all for F1 going to Road America or Watkins Glen or wherever for a United States grand Prix.

the man in charge needs to get in touch with reality.