Lewis Hamilton, Love him or hate him, but

[Valve Bounce]

That was one helluva drive by Hamilton today. I always knew this guy was something special after he matched Alonso on equal terms at McLaren in his rookie year. Most F1 drivers take years to develop into race winning drivers, but this guy was a winner straight out of the box.

Love him or hate him, but nearly all those who hate him grudgingly concede that this guy is something special. Sure he had his silly tricks in his first year, and lying to the stewards is not the smartest thing. BUT I am talking about sheer driving brilliance, and this guy has what it takes.

So! why is he not my favorite driver, or even a driver that like? I can't answer that. I'm sure some here would cough up many reasons not to like him; I just begrudgingly concede that he could be the greatest driver of this generation.

[wedge]

I'm sure some here would cough up many reasons not to like him;

He his flaws, no different to how Senna, Prost, Schumi, Alonso have their own flaws.

Some people would rather focus on those flaws and vice versa. IMO, their brilliance slightly outweighs the flaws.

[steveaki13]

He may not be every ones favourite driver, but through his short career no one can deny he has given us so much action Good or Bad.

The way he just grabbed the car and cleared so many drivers early while leaving the Ferrari's and team mate at the back was impressive.

Always has something happening around him.

[Sonic]

Yeah. I don't like his attitude (I find him fake and even before the australian GP last year, a liar) but you can't deny that he was the only one of the top drivers who started out of place who showed any determination to work his way to the front rather than need stratagy to move past slower cars.

His stupid weaving all down the pit straight was as pointless as it was silly but it gives the 6 and 7 years olds who look up to him like some sort of demi god the wrong idea for their own racing careers and that is probably the main reason I'll never support him no matter how good he is/will be.

[Garry Walker]

Not a likeable character, but a very good driver.

[wedge]

His stupid weaving all down the pit straight was as pointless as it was silly but it gives the 6 and 7 years olds who look up to him like some sort of demi god the wrong idea for their own racing careers and that is probably the main reason I'll never support him no matter how good he is/will be.

It has been happening in junior formulae long before Hamilton entered F1.

[e2mtt]

It has been happening in junior formulae long before Hamilton entered F1.

His driving in the junior formulas was amazing - 3-wide passes, in the grass, etc. He brought more of that frantic energy to F1 than most drivers.

I do think he is currently the best driver in F1.

[Valve Bounce]

It has been happening in junior formulae long before Hamilton entered F1.

Just repeating what I posted on the other thread, he was weaving to break the tow, not to block. Nothing different from what Petrov was doing - kept me alert.

[Sonic]

It has been happening in junior formulae long before Hamilton entered F1.

Yes I know (been there. Done that) but it gets worse with every generation - I shudder to think how reckless the new breed will be by 2020.

As for breaking the tow - BS! As Hamster was well aware from following Petrov the changes in direction did nothing to prevent a his McLaren towing up to Petrov's rear wing, so the weaving on pit straight by Hamilton was nothing more than trying to occupy the whole damn race track because he had seriously under estimated the russian the first time.

Defend your line by all means, but that kind of swerving is best reserved for the Play Station.

[steveaki13]

Defend your line by all means, but that kind of swerving is best reserved for the Play Station.

I am a much more curtious driver than that on my Playstation. :D

[Roamy]

great driver very fun to watch - has some daring moves and beautiful girlfriends

[anthonyvop]

LH is a great driver. That is a fact.

Sutil bested him today in a slower car. That is a fact.

great driver very fun to watch - has some daring moves and beautiful girlfriends

It pains me to agree with most of your post, but Ron Dennis isn't beautiful.

[markabilly]

the absolute best Weaver i have seen in the last few years.....now if he can only learn to chop like Webber, he would be a complete webbeer erre,,weaver....err driver


and did you not hear, Ronnie and Hammie broke up....something about a pass on someone

[Sonic]

I am a much more curtious driver than that on my Playstation. :D

Then you ain't trying hard enough! ;)

[Dave B]

Sutil bested [Hamilton] today in a slower car. That is a fact.
Not really today - the damage was done in qually yesterday when McLaren failed to notice that sometimes in Malaysia it rains a bit. Had they started from the same part of the grid there's little doubt who would have crossed the line first.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

LH is a great driver. That is a fact.

Sutil bested him today in a slower car. That is a fact.

It helps if you start 16 places higher, doesn't it? It it is ain't American racing either where full course yellows bring together the field every now and then.

However, it puzzles me how the Force India had better straight line speed than the McLaren without the F-duct.

[Sonic]

It helps if you start 16 places higher, doesn't it? It it is ain't American racing either where full course yellows bring together the field every now and then.

However, it puzzles me how the Force India had better straight line speed than the McLaren without the F-duct.

I don't think it did. Lewis was closing like a steam train by the end of each straight but the force india (as we discovered last year) is extreemly efficient at cutting through the air. Cars that punched a bigger hole in the air were easy prey for the F duct.

[steveaki13]

The Force India also was getting out of key corners with good traction.
Whether that was just the normal close and spread feature of slow corners or whether the Force India really has good traction Im not sure, but what ever Sutil always pulled enough out early on the straights to keep Hamilton at bay when getting to the next braking zone.

[wedge]

Yes I know (been there. Done that) but it gets worse with every generation - I shudder to think how reckless the new breed will be by 2020.

Oh no, no, no!

As Moss often said: "if Schumacher did it in my day, he'd be dead"

[Valve Bounce]

It helps if you start 16 places higher, doesn't it? It it is ain't American racing either where full course yellows bring together the field every now and then.

However, it puzzles me how the Force India had better straight line speed than the McLaren without the F-duct.

What's an F-duct? LINK PLEASE :confused:

[Sonic]

The f duct is the device McLaren (and now sauber) are using whereby the driver uses their leg to block a vent whilst on the straight. This changes the airflow to the rear wing and stalls it = higher top speed.

[rohanweb]

awww without LewisH...the F1 would suck thesedays..
love or hate ? absolutely loves Lewis Hamilton.

those who pull out the kind of strings like he is that and this are nuts..

[Hawkmoon]

I hate him. He drives for McLaren. What more reason do I need? :D

I hated Alonso up until this year too. Now he's the best driver on the grid and I 'll have anybody who says different! :blackeye:

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm not so pleased with some of Lewis' off-track exploits. But I'm a grown man, so I'm not looking to a kid, young enough to be my son, as a role model. Over the past two races, he has shown some incredible flashes of racing brilliance. Just as when I watched Senna, I feel fortunate to be sitting in front of the set to see him race. I now have that very same feeling about Vettel too. And with Rosberg now beginning to show his stuff, the immediate future of F1 seems VERY bright to me.

[anthonyvop]

Not really today - the damage was done in qually yesterday when McLaren failed to notice that sometimes in Malaysia it rains a bit. Had they started from the same part of the grid there's little doubt who would have crossed the line first.

And how many laps did LH run on Sutil's tail and yet could not make the pass?

Nobody knows what would have happened if LH had qualified further up the grid. For all you know Sutil would have passed LH on the first lap......We will never know.

[anthonyvop]

It helps if you start 16 places higher, doesn't it? It it is ain't American racing either where full course yellows bring together the field every now and then.

However, it puzzles me how the Force India had better straight line speed than the McLaren without the F-duct.

Is the F-duct all that it is cracked up to be? Yes the Mclarens are fast down the straights but so are the Force India without any special ducting....Could it just be Mercedes Power?

The F-Duct didn't seem to help Jenson Button on the straight when Mass rode right up his tail then made a clean pass. Alonso also had no problem closing up and passing with a dodgy gear box.

[Roamy]

Gee I always said sutil is good. LH was just no match
Sorry. Go alonso

[N. Jones]

That was one helluva drive by Hamilton today. I always knew this guy was something special after he matched Alonso on equal terms at McLaren in his rookie year. Most F1 drivers take years to develop into race winning drivers, but this guy was a winner straight out of the box.

Love him or hate him, but nearly all those who hate him grudgingly concede that this guy is something special. Sure he had his silly tricks in his first year, and lying to the stewards is not the smartest thing. BUT I am talking about sheer driving brilliance, and this guy has what it takes.

So! why is he not my favorite driver, or even a driver that like? I can't answer that. I'm sure some here would cough up many reasons not to like him; I just begrudgingly concede that he could be the greatest driver of this generation.

I hate to say this but he is just like Button - give them a great car and they drive great.

Give them a bad car and they drive bad.

Wasn't it Britain last year when he was down in 16th and asked the team if he could park it?

[Valve Bounce]

Wasn't it Britain last year when he was down in 16th and asked the team if he could park it?

And they said :"Sorry! Car Park Full!" So he had to go around the block a few more times.

[N. Jones]

And they said :"Sorry! Car Park Full!" So he had to go around the block a few more times.

:rotflmao:

[airshifter]

And they said :"Sorry! Car Park Full!" So he had to go around the block a few more times.

:laugh:

It was almost as if he really didn't care about saving the engine for future races, he just wanted to park!


But that was one great drive at Malaysia. Now having been in F1 a few seasons I see Lewis as somewhat a combination of guys like Schumacher and Montoya. Blistering fast and precise at times, and capable of complete race domination. He is also willing to be aggressive when passing similar to Montoya, and often can make those moves stick as if an everyday thing.

But despite having some great qualities, he has the negative qualities of some of those drivers as well. Can often be his own worst enemy, forcing a bad move or line when patience would be a virtue. I think he will continue to progress in this fashion rather than back off and "settle" for a lesser position.

I think some of these guys think big picture, and some think one position at a time. Lewis I see as one of the second group. It makes for exciting racing but sometimes they pay a price in the long run.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Is the F-duct all that it is cracked up to be? Yes the Mclarens are fast down the straights but so are the Force India without any special ducting....Could it just be Mercedes Power?

The F-Duct didn't seem to help Jenson Button on the straight when Mass rode right up his tail then made a clean pass. Alonso also had no problem closing up and passing with a dodgy gear box.

With Button and Massa I think it was down to the cars ability to put the power down out of the corners. Buttons tyres were shot after his earlier pit stop.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I hate to say this but he is just like Button - give them a great car and they drive great.

Give them a bad car and they drive bad.

Did you watch much of last season? Hamilton frequently got the best out of that dog of a McLaren.

[Sonic]

Did you watch much of last season? Hamilton frequently got the best out of that dog of a McLaren.

Indeed. There are very few drivers capable of exceeding the cars general performance in the way he did last year. Drivers like that are few and far between - Senna, Schumacher are Moss are a few who spring to mind. Legends all.

[Mia 01]

Indeed. There are very few drivers capable of exceeding the cars general performance in the way he did last year. Drivers like that are few and far between - Senna, Schumacher are Moss are a few who spring to mind. Legends all.

Kimi did the same thing last year, perhaps moore since Ferrari didn´t developed the car, unlike MacLaren.

It seems to that Kimi is a better driver than Lewis.

I hate him. He drives for McLaren. What more reason do I need? :D

I hated Alonso up until this year too. Now he's the best driver on the grid and I 'll have anybody who says different! :blackeye:

Post of the year.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I watched...and Hamilton brightened up the race remarkably. Is he the most talented guy in F1? How much is car, how much is driver? I do know this much, give him some of the strategy and patience and Button has shown us the last couple of years (his OZ win was brilliant intuitive decision making) and Hamilton is the best. I just am not ready to hand him that crown.

After 2 years of not paying a lot of attention to f1, I am finding this year interesting (well, everything AFTER Bahrain!)

[N. Jones]

Did you watch much of last season? Hamilton frequently got the best out of that dog of a McLaren.

I did watch. When the car was a dog he was out of the points or at the back end of the points. When the car was awesome he was on the podium.

He is a good driver but not in that Chewbacca/Fernando class.

[Valve Bounce]

I did watch. When the car was a dog he was out of the points or at the back end of the points. When the car was awesome he was on the podium.

He is a good driver but not in that Chewbacca/Fernando class.

I have to disagree here. I have a feeling that Lewis will develop into an awesome, arrogant and brilliant driver. He will have the attributes of the driver who will win no matter what it takes.

[Retro Formula 1]

I think he's a truly exciting racer. You can't be a motorsport fan watching drivers like Jacques, Montoya, Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton without being thrilled with what they can do. As far as their personality, their girlfriend, their donations to charity or whatever else I don't car because they just have the X factor whether you support their team or not

[Valve Bounce]

I'm not saying that Lewis is quite on the level of Schumacher and Alonso quite yet, but nobody would expect that. He's not far off IMO.

Funny you should say that because Lewis matched Fernando with equal machinery in his rookie year; or did you forget? :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I think he's a truly exciting racer. You can't be a motorsport fan watching drivers like Jacques, Montoya, Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton without being thrilled with what they can do. As far as their personality, their girlfriend, their donations to charity or whatever else I don't care because they just have the X factor whether you support their team or not
That!! :up:

[bluegem280]

I think they are equal, Alonso has five extra years under his belt, but Lewis had an extra race on a crane ;)

To be fair Lewis has great natural talent, he can match Alonso in rookie season.

[N. Jones]

Ok. We disagree then. :)

I agree that he is an aggressive driver but I just don't see him as a guy who can put a dog of a car into a position it should not be in.

[Sonic]

Ok. We disagree then. :)

I agree that he is an aggressive driver but I just don't see him as a guy who can put a dog of a car into a position it should not be in.

I'd put forward Japan last season as a demonstration that the guy is in another league to most. Clearly the car wasn't a match for the Red Bulls and arguably the Toyota that day but he hustled that reluctant car round at a speed it had no right managing, but even more impressively - and IMO clear indication of his skill - when his KERS failed he was still able to maintain a strong pace to finish in sight of Trulli.

[truefan72]

Ok. We disagree then. :)

I agree that he is an aggressive driver but I just don't see him as a guy who can put a dog of a car into a position it should not be in.

you mean like 3rd/4th in Australia last year ( before the " incident" )

or winning 2 races or scoring the most points in the 2nd half of the season, or actually doing a great qualy job in germany. If 2009 proved anything it was that LH could wrestle a dog of a car to perform beyond its ability.
There are limits however to how far you can take a car as alonso will attest in his 2 comeback years at renault. ;)

[truefan72]

I'd put forward Japan last season as a demonstration that the guy is in another league to most. Clearly the car wasn't a match for the Red Bulls and arguably the Toyota that day but he hustled that reluctant car round at a speed it had no right managing, but even more impressively - and IMO clear indication of his skill - when his KERS failed he was still able to maintain a strong pace to finish in sight of Trulli.

yep wich meant he was logging around 70 extra kilos of weight

[N. Jones]

I'd put forward Japan last season as a demonstration that the guy is in another league to most. Clearly the car wasn't a match for the Red Bulls and arguably the Toyota that day but he hustled that reluctant car round at a speed it had no right managing, but even more impressively - and IMO clear indication of his skill - when his KERS failed he was still able to maintain a strong pace to finish in sight of Trulli.


you mean like 3rd/4th in Australia last year ( before the " incident" )

or winning 2 races or scoring the most points in the 2nd half of the season, or actually doing a great qualy job in germany. If 2009 proved anything it was that LH could wrestle a dog of a car to perform beyond its ability.
There are limits however to how far you can take a car as alonso will attest in his 2 comeback years at renault. ;)

Yes but the second half of the season was when the McLaren "came alive".

Do you both remember this run:
Grid Race
Spanish 14 9
Monaco 20 12
Turkish 16 13
British 18 16
German 5 18
(If it doesn't line up - the first number is where he qualified and the second is where he finished.)

I also remember he was beginning to slag the team because the car was not a race winner.

He has talent and is exciting to watch, but his attitude and a run like the above shows me that he needs a podium-finishing car to produce drives that cause all of us to fill this forum with comment. :)

[Valve Bounce]

He has talent and is exciting to watch, but his attitude and a run like the above shows me that he needs a podium-finishing car to produce drives that cause all of us to fill this forum with comment. :)

That would apply to any driver these days. Look at Alonso after his return to Renault; although I would concede that the Renault's performance in Singapore did fill this forum with comment. But it was Junior's performance rather than Fernando's that filled this forum.

[wedge]

Yes but the second half of the season was when the McLaren "came alive".

Do you both remember this run:
Grid Race
Spanish 14 9
Monaco 20 12
Turkish 16 13
British 18 16
German 5 18
(If it doesn't line up - the first number is where he qualified and the second is where he finished.)

I also remember he was beginning to slag the team because the car was not a race winner.

He has talent and is exciting to watch, but his attitude and a run like the above shows me that he needs a podium-finishing car to produce drives that cause all of us to fill this forum with comment. :)

The car was so crap you can do so much and McLaren had to fix those problems.

No in-season testing so the rate of development was slow not to mention very complicated aero problem (It was to do with rear end downforce but actually revising the front endplates helped tremendously to created better overall efficiency).

Spain, Turkey, Britain - those are aero tracks; Hamilton phucked up at Monaco quali.

At Turkey he had a great and understated drive. Kovy beat Hamilton in quali, but it would be the other way round on race day as Kovy two stopped and Hamilton did one stop on a track where he would supposedly destroy the tyres with his aggressive style.

[N. Jones]

That would apply to any driver these days. Look at Alonso after his return to Renault; although I would concede that the Renault's performance in Singapore did fill this forum with comment. But it was Junior's performance rather than Fernando's that filled this forum.

I wasn't going to quote Singapore '08 for obvious reasons!
But I will say that Alonso did pretty well for himself in Japan that same year. :)

I don't think that applies to any driver. I remember 2005 when no one could catch Alonso and Kimi (unless the Kimster was stopped on the side of the road) and the only guy who was regularly on the podium was Michael. He constantly dragged that years POS Ferrari onto the podium.

It can be done. I just do not believe that Hamilton is there yet, if he ever gets there...

[Sonic]

Yes but the second half of the season was when the McLaren "came alive".

Do you both remember this run:
Grid Race
Spanish 14 9
Monaco 20 12
Turkish 16 13
British 18 16
German 5 18
(If it doesn't line up - the first number is where he qualified and the second is where he finished.)

I also remember he was beginning to slag the team because the car was not a race winner.

He has talent and is exciting to watch, but his attitude and a run like the above shows me that he needs a podium-finishing car to produce drives that cause all of us to fill this forum with comment. :)

Yes his attitude sucks - the whole "win as a team, loose as a team" BS, only lasts whilst he's got a race winning car under him.

[ArrowsFA1]

...a run like the above shows me that he needs a podium-finishing car to produce drives that cause all of us to fill this forum with comment. :)
I was reminded recently of a drive by Gilles at the 1980 Monaco GP. Look at the results and it was nothing extraordinary. He finished an unremarkable 5th, off the podium.

However, he'd qualified a second faster than his team-mate in the Ferrari 312T5, a car which was simply rubbish. While other cars had skirts generating downforce, the Ferrari had them "for show" because they didn't do anything. Having run as high as 7th in the early stages Gilles had to pit and dropped to 14th. From there he somehow reached 5th. At Monaco. In the 312T5.

My point is that the podium does not define a brilliant performance. Both Hamilton and Massa, in race winning cars, put in superb drives in Malaysia but 'only' finished 6th & 7th. I'd wager that Hamilton put in some performances in the 2009 MP4-24 that he'd consider among his best, but they hardly register with us because they didn't result in a podium.

All drivers need a car capable of winning races to win races. Yes, there have been examples where a car exceeded expectations through the brilliance of a driver (Schumacher, Spain 1996 for example) but those kind of drives are the exception not the rule.

[Valve Bounce]

I was reminded recently of a drive by Gilles at the 1980 Monaco GP. Look at the results and it was nothing extraordinary. He finished an unremarkable 5th, off the podium.

However, he'd qualified a second faster than his team-mate in the Ferrari 312T5, a car which was simply rubbish. While other cars had skirts generating downforce, the Ferrari had them "for show" because they didn't do anything. Having run as high as 7th in the early stages Gilles had to pit and dropped to 14th. From there he somehow reached 5th. At Monaco. In the 312T5.

My point is that the podium does not define a brilliant performance. Both Hamilton and Massa, in race winning cars, put in superb drives in Malaysia but 'only' finished 6th & 7th. I'd wager that Hamilton put in some performances in the 2009 MP4-24 that he'd consider among his best, but they hardly register with us because they didn't result in a podium.

All drivers need a car capable of winning races to win races. Yes, there have been examples where a car exceeded expectations through the brilliance of a driver (Schumacher, Spain 1996 for example) but those kind of drives are the exception not the rule.

While I am not willing to compare Lewis with Gilles just yet, he is none the less a brilliant driver already. He proved it in his rookie year, and he will only get better.

[Big Ben]

hate him..? that's too strong... don't like him? that's quite about right. The boy has balls, but that's not much of a secret anymore, is it? That's very good for us, the public, not so good for him sometimes though. I recall a race in Turkey while he was competing in gp2.... very impressive... It made me think that McLaren with him and Alonso would be some kind of a dream team...

[Garry Walker]

While I am not willing to compare Lewis with Gilles just yet, he is none the less a brilliant driver already. He proved it in his rookie year, and he will only get better.

Lewis is much better than gilles ever was. For one thing, Hamilton is yet to be beaten by a teammate, let alone two teammates as gilly was.

[steveaki13]

I think he's a truly exciting racer. You can't be a motorsport fan watching drivers like Jacques, Montoya, Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton without being thrilled with what they can do. As far as their personality, their girlfriend, their donations to charity or whatever else I don't car because they just have the X factor whether you support their team or not

:up:
Completely Agree

Regardless of what happens off track, I don't think many could deny he always has something happening to and around him on the track most of the time.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lewis is much better than gilles ever was. For one thing, Hamilton is yet to be beaten by a teammate, let alone two teammates as gilly was.

Gilles beat by a teammate? I would wager if it is down to speed, he was never topped on any kind of consistent basis. You weaken your arguments about Lewis and his abilities if you are going to go slag a legend. Gilles was never slower than Scheckter, and never slower than Pironi. Considering the dog's Ferrari gave him, I would consider Gilles one of the most underrated drivers ever for pure speed. Making the car last...well the criticism would be valid.....

AS for Lewis? Brilliant driver, and a WDC, BUT I don't think he is one of the greats by any stretch....

[e2mtt]

...

AS for Lewis? Brilliant driver, and a WDC, BUT I don't think he is one of the greats by any stretch....

Not one of the greats? 4 wins & 6 poles in his rookie season, including podiums in first 9 GPs... WDC in his second year, youngest WDC ever, 5 more wins. He is now starting his 4th year in F1, and has 1 WDC, 11 wins, 17 poles, & 28 podiums in 55 races. The numbers kind of speak for themselves.

[Valve Bounce]

You weaken your arguments about Lewis and his abilities if you are going to go slag a legend.

I'm willing to bet that he was told all this about Gilles by his mysterious journalist friend whom he doesn't want to name. :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Gilles was never slower than Scheckter, and never slower than Pironi.

He was outqualified and outraced by them on several occasions, not to mention Reutemann.

[Valve Bounce]

Not one of the greats? 4 wins & 6 poles in his rookie season, including podiums in first 9 GPs... WDC in his second year, youngest WDC ever, 5 more wins. He is now starting his 4th year in F1, and has 1 WDC, 11 wins, 17 poles, & 28 podiums in 55 races. The numbers kind of speak for themselves.

I'm willing to concede that he is brilliant, and as I posted earlier, could be THE driver of this generation. However, I do respect the favorites of other forum members who prefer to nominate their choice as a better driver. That's how this forum should be - a place for friendly discussion and disagreements.

[Valve Bounce]

He was outqualified and outraced by them on several occasions, not to mention Reutemann.

Good days and better days.

[ShiftingGears]

Good days and better days.

What does that make Reutemann, Scheckter and Pironi then? Legends?

[e2mtt]

I'm willing to concede that he is brilliant, and as I posted earlier, could be THE driver of this generation. However, I do respect the favorites of other forum members who prefer to nominate their choice as a better driver. That's how this forum should be - a place for friendly discussion and disagreements.

Of course. I never intended to slight other previous greats, or insinuate he was the greatest ever or only great. However, he is quite a good driver. :-)

[Valve Bounce]

What does that make Reutemann, Scheckter and Pironi then? Legends?

Absolutely! Just like Lou Richards. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Of course. I never intended to slight other previous greats, or insinuate he was the greatest ever or only great. However, he is quite a good driver. :-)

Yeah!! bloody fast too.

[555-04Q2]

Lewis Hamilton is the sh!t! He is a bl@@dy good driver. His record speaks for itself. Records don't lie, they reflect a drivers achievements, his consistancy and his ability to win races and championships.

Hamilton will be one of the top 10 F1 drivers of all time by the time he retires. We are very lucky that we get to watch 4 of the greatest drivers in F1's history at the moment...Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel.

[Valve Bounce]

Lewis Hamilton is the sh!t! He is a bl@@dy good driver. His record speaks for itself. Records don't lie, they reflect a drivers achievements, his consistancy and his ability to win races and championships.

Hamilton will be one of the top 10 F1 drivers of all time by the time he retires. We are very lucky that we get to watch 4 of the greatest drivers in F1's history at the moment...Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel.

You forgot Bunsen.

[ShiftingGears]

Lewis Hamilton is the sh!t! He is a bl@@dy good driver. His record speaks for itself. Records don't lie, they reflect a drivers achievements, his consistancy and his ability to win races and championships.

Hamilton will be one of the top 10 F1 drivers of all time by the time he retires. We are very lucky that we get to watch 4 of the greatest drivers in F1's history at the moment...Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel.

The jury is out on Vettel. Pacewise he is often quite close to Webber.

[Retro Formula 1]

Not one of the greats? 4 wins & 6 poles in his rookie season, including podiums in first 9 GPs... WDC in his second year, youngest WDC ever, 5 more wins. He is now starting his 4th year in F1, and has 1 WDC, 11 wins, 17 poles, & 28 podiums in 55 races. The numbers kind of speak for themselves.

He is a great driver but one of the greats? I suppose records are one thing but opinion another.

What can be argued is that he seems to get more out of the car than his team mates. He has also been tested, and beat lets not forget, against Alonso who many feel is the best driver in F1. That's not to say people wont argue about the circumstances or the margin but in his rookie year, at the age he was, is an amazing achievement isn't it.

It is also true that he is paired with the current WDC at the moment and a lip smacking battle this season proposes to be.

I'm uneasy using terms like Legend and one of the Greats. That's approaching the blind fanaticism that denigrates many threads and suggests his achievements are finished, which is very unlikely to be the case. In 10 years time, when his career is approaching it's swansong, then he can be measured and I, like 555-04Q2, believe he will have defined a generation and secured his place in history but lets enjoy the next few years first. Classing him as a Great already is like opening your presents before Christmas.

[Mia 01]

Lewis got one WDC, thats it for now.

It´s interesting that most MacLaren fans also cheering for Lewis, or are they cheering MacLaren for Lewis.

The team is only a tool for Lewis and his fans.

Isn´t it so?

[wmcot]

What's an F-duct? LINK PLEASE :confused:

I think the F-duct is what Lewis was trying to adjust before getting into the car! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I think the F-duct is what Lewis was trying to adjust before getting into the car! ;)

Oh! you naughty boy! you naughty, naughty boy! :eek:

[ShiftingGears]

Absolutely! Just like Lou Richards. :p :

Who?

[Big Ben]

Legend? One of the greatest? The new Chuck Norris? Let's wait and see.

[Garry Walker]

Gilles beat by a teammate? I would wager if it is down to speed, he was never topped on any kind of consistent basis. You weaken your arguments about Lewis and his abilities if you are going to go slag a legend. Gilles was never slower than Scheckter, and never slower than Pironi. Considering the dog's Ferrari gave him, I would consider Gilles one of the most underrated drivers ever for pure speed. Making the car last...well the criticism would be valid.....

AS for Lewis? Brilliant driver, and a WDC, BUT I don't think he is one of the greats by any stretch....
Gilles was consistantly beaten by Reutemann and also struggled against JS. In 1979 their Qualy stats ended 8:7 in Gilles`favour only and Jody took the title, because on the moments when it counted, he was the better man.

Gilles Villeneuve, whilst a true racer, was one of the most overrated drivers of all time.

[Garry Walker]

I'm willing to bet that he was told all this about Gilles by his mysterious journalist friend whom he doesn't want to name. :rolleyes:

Question: When will anthony davidson get a seat in F1?
Answer: The day Valve Bounce stops being my psychological prisoner - that is never.

[Big Ben]

Question: When will anthony davidson get a seat in F1?
Answer: The day Valve Bounce stops being my psychological prisoner - that is never.

If nobody understands your jokes it doesn't mean you're subtle you know

[Valve Bounce]

If nobody understands your jokes it doesn't mean you're subtle you know

Gary labelled Ant to be arrogant because he was informed by his mystery journalist friend, whom he dares not name, that Ant was arrogant. And then proceeded to argue that Ant was arrogant on this forum with Ant's dad.

Now you know!

[ArrowsFA1]

Gilles Villeneuve, whilst a true racer, was one of the most overrated drivers of all time.
Sure, he was beaten by team-mates but has there ever been a driver who was never beaten by a team-mate?

A true racer? Certainly. Overrated? I don't think so.

Because he was a true racer, as Scheckter once said, "Gilles had to be the fastest on every lap, even in testing". As a result he sometimes went over the limit. GV's argument would have been you have to go over the limit to know exactly where it is, and he wouldn't go over it on that track, or on that corner, again. Unlike Scheckter or Pironi whose aim was to win the title, trophies were not GV's reason for going racing. The sport and racing itself were what motivated him. In times when winning is everything, and wins and titles are the means of rating a driver, then that was GV's flaw.

[Big Ben]

Gary labelled Ant to be arrogant because he was informed by his mystery journalist friend, whom he dares not name, that Ant was arrogant. And then proceeded to argue that Ant was arrogant on this forum with Ant's dad.

Now you know!

My post was about gary's new lame attempt of being funny by calling someone his prisoner. Somehow I think you might have understood something else.

[jens]

I don't know, why are you talking about G.Villeneuve here suddenly. Whilst a very impressive driver and probably among the best ones of his era, he didn't leave an impression of a complete package based on his relatively short F1 career.


The jury is out on Vettel. Pacewise he is often quite close to Webber.

There is nothing embarrassing about Webber being close, he is a fast driver as well. What counts, is coming out on top over a full season.

[N. Jones]

*shaking head*

You people are crazy.... this thread went from talking about Hamilton to talking about everything but him!
:laugh: :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

There is nothing embarrassing about Webber being close, he is a fast driver as well.

Nor should there be. However I do feel as if the talk of being one of the greats is premature.


What counts, is coming out on top over a full season.

Indeed.

[Valve Bounce]

*shaking head*

You people are crazy.... this thread went from talking about Hamilton to talking about everything but him!
:laugh: :laugh:

I guess guys are trying to compare Lewis with some other drivers of the past. This is very difficult, because the cars are so different now from what they used to be.

[ArrowsFA1]

I don't know, why are you talking about G.Villeneuve here suddenly.
Garry started it :p :

[pino]

Please let's keep it on topic :)

[steveaki13]

Not one of the greats? 4 wins & 6 poles in his rookie season, including podiums in first 9 GPs... WDC in his second year, youngest WDC ever, 5 more wins. He is now starting his 4th year in F1, and has 1 WDC, 11 wins, 17 poles, & 28 podiums in 55 races. The numbers kind of speak for themselves.

Have to agree, when you look at his stats the make impressive reading after only 3 seasons.

[Mia 01]

I dont love him, I dont like him and I dont hate him.

His just an arrogant prick that push other drivers off track, weav, and shout at the team on the radio.

Well, well, I .............. and that..... xxxx... Hamilton

[truefan72]

Although I'm a Lewis Hamilton fan, I think terms like 'Legend' and 'Great' are best used once a driver has finished their career. :)

yep

except schumi came back muddled the whole thing up ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I dont love him, I dont like him and I dont hate him.

His just an arrogant prick that push other drivers off track, weav, and shout at the team on the radio.

Well, well, I .............. and that..... xxxx... Hamilton

Why are you blowing four kisses to Lewis Hamilton then? :confused:

[ioan]

He's a very good driver, that's all I can say.

He's a very good driver, that's all I can say.

You could have said "with terrible taste in teams" too.

[UltimateDanGTR]

You could have said "with terrible taste in teams" too.

It's alright tamb, things could change.

Kimi Raikkonen used to have a good taste in teams, and then it all changed in 2007 :p

[MotorSportAutographs.com]

When Lewis and he's dad, would not talk with the tv fans when he won championship as they walked down the pit lane, i found it extremely disrespectful to all the fans & a poor ambassador.

No doubt on ability and to give him due he plodded on last year when many through in the towel.

[ioan]

You could have said "with terrible taste in teams" too.

:D

[ioan]

It's alright tamb, things could change.

Kimi Raikkonen used to have a good taste in teams, and then it all changed in 2007 :p

That's why he became WDC in 2007 and not before.

[UltimateDanGTR]

That's why he became WDC in 2007 and not before.

:D the perfect comeback, i will concede.

could've been champion in 2005 if it weren't for the reliability of that blooming car he was driving :D

[Saint Devote]

When Lewis and he's dad, would not talk with the tv fans when he won championship as they walked down the pit lane, i found it extremely disrespectful to all the fans & a poor ambassador.

No doubt on ability and to give him due he plodded on last year when many through in the towel.

Under pressure as a young man thrown into the spotlight he has made mistakes which we are all well aware of.

However, when it comes to fans Lewis is extremely kind and appreciative. There will always be the ONE after the 300 he has met that he has to say no to because he has to leave and that is what will be reported as his action.

Not too many reports about his meeting with fans personally, accepting gifts made for him and his co-operation with organizations that help kids with life-threatening diseases make their dreams come true. Such as meeting Lewis.

Those actions will forever be appreciated by fans and it will give them something that no money can buy. Very special.

In addition, Lewis has had to put up with racism at tracks in Spain and Brazil. He acted with dignity and in a manner beyond his years.

I do not support Lewis and want Jense to beat him [so I am happy with the year so far] - but he is also the teammate of Button and this has mellowed ny attitude towards him. If it is not Jense then I want Lewis to beat Vettel, although I do prefer Alonso and Massa to him.

And I think that Jense is a better racing driver than Hamilton.

[Saint Devote]

Not one of the greats? 4 wins & 6 poles in his rookie season, including podiums in first 9 GPs... WDC in his second year, youngest WDC ever, 5 more wins. He is now starting his 4th year in F1, and has 1 WDC, 11 wins, 17 poles, & 28 podiums in 55 races. The numbers kind of speak for themselves.


There are several significant flaws in Lewis' repertoire. His inability to contain himself in a close racing situation [the red mist] most recently mentioned by Autosport grand prix editor and Lewis apologist Mark Hughes during the Australian grand prix for example.

That the team does not ask Lewis, they command him on tactical situations - this does not demonstrate the command that "greats" have. Nobody asks Schumi.

And even Jenson, the team suggested he NOT make the stop, but Button ovverode the team at Albert Park.

It is early days yet in Hamilton's career and he has accomplished much. But to consider him one of the "greats" already is ridiculous.

I have my views why there has been a such a fuss over him that I have never seen in 34 years as a motor racing supporter since I was a kid. And having been around racing that long, I will not be convicnced otherwise.

[henners88]

And even Jenson, the team suggested he NOT make the stop, but Button ovverode the team at Albert Park.

Why on earth did the team not make this clear to Jenson over the radio? They were very convincing, thats all I'll say. :confused:

[Saint Devote]

Why on earth did the team not make this clear to Jenson over the radio? They were very convincing, thats all I'll say. :confused:

Everything is not published over the radio and it was a discussion not an argument.

Jenson explained that as he was the driver actually in the situation of course, and together with information from the team he decided to pit versus the team thinking it was too early - Mark Hughes alluded to it as well.

Its just one of those situations where a driver like Jenson excells. Reminded me of Zandvoort 1975.

Thats why the Lewis pitting situation is puzzling to me. Surely Lewis could have made the decision? Maybe Lewis is not as confident as Jenson in such a situation?

Maybe I should Twitter Mclaren about it!!!

[airshifter]

That the team does not ask Lewis, they command him on tactical situations - this does not demonstrate the command that "greats" have. Nobody asks Schumi.



Unless you completely ignore the history of MS at Ferrari, it's insane to claim that he always made his own decisions. He became well known for responding to Brawns requests concerning what to do with lap times and the like.

There are times when a driver has to make their own decision, but also times that the team must instruct even the best drivers. The teams have access to all the data, often including most of the data on other cars.

The radio transmissions at Malaysia are a prime example, as MS was unsure of the extent of his front wing damage. After asking him if he needed to pit, MS replied that he couldn't see the wing and was unsure. At which point the team told him he needed to pit, with the emphasis on "box, box, box".



As for Jenson, he openly admitted in that post race interview that his balance was crap on the inters with the track drying out. I'm sure this had a big part of his desire to change as soon as possible, as when you're bottomed out on handling there isn't much risk in change.

[henners88]

Everything is not published over the radio and it was a discussion not an argument.

Jenson explained that as he was the driver actually in the situation of course, and together with information from the team he decided to pit versus the team thinking it was too early - Mark Hughes alluded to it as well.

I wasn't referring to stories written in autosport, and I must admit most I have read have sensationalized the whole Jenson decision fairytale. I listened back to the radio conversation and Jenson was told he was going onto slicks in the next 3 laps. Jenson then said, "I'll come in now"... His engineer then replied with, "OK Jenson the tyres are out we're ready when you are".... Hardly Jenson making a bold decision to go onto slicks and the team disagreeing with him. Where did you get that information from?? If the team thought it was too early, maybe they commented on that after the race, rather than making their feelings known during the race, as I know that didn't happen. Jenson decided the lap, not the strategy involving tyre choice.



Thats why the Lewis pitting situation is puzzling to me. Surely Lewis could have made the decision? Maybe Lewis is not as confident as Jenson in such a situation?
Maybe I should Twitter Mclaren about it!!!
Mclaren will probably tell you that they decided to try Jenson on slicks because he was falling back from Lewis on destroyed intermediates, and they decided Jenson was the guinea pig in a race which at that point was falling out of his grasp.

They're not going to put both drivers on a strategy that was a huge gamble, are they? It paid off great for Jenson but he himself was not convinced when he went off at the first corner.

[Valve Bounce]

Its just one of those situations where a driver like Jenson excells. Reminded me of Zandvoort 1975.

!

Bunsen was racing at Zandvoort in 1997? He must be Rip van Winkle II. Can't remember how he finished up at Zandvoort.

[Saint Devote]

Unless you completely ignore the history of MS at Ferrari, it's insane to claim that he always made his own decisions. He became well known for responding to Brawns requests concerning what to do with lap times and the like.

There are times when a driver has to make their own decision, but also times that the team must instruct even the best drivers. The teams have access to all the data, often including most of the data on other cars.

The radio transmissions at Malaysia are a prime example, as MS was unsure of the extent of his front wing damage. After asking him if he needed to pit, MS replied that he couldn't see the wing and was unsure. At which point the team told him he needed to pit, with the emphasis on "box, box, box".

As for Jenson, he openly admitted in that post race interview that his balance was crap on the inters with the track drying out. I'm sure this had a big part of his desire to change as soon as possible, as when you're bottomed out on handling there isn't much risk in change.

Pernickety be your name - but if course I expect people to become hysterical when Jenson is mentioned positively :rolleyes:

I am talking generally and within the context of a race such as track conditions at Albert Park. Thats all.

[Saint Devote]

Bunsen was racing at Zandvoort in 1997? He must be Rip van Winkle II. Can't remember how he finished up at Zandvoort.

I think you should reread the message - it was 1975 :D

And no it was not Jenson as I am sure you know.

[Garry Walker]

Funny how st.devote has not replied to the points henners made.

All in all, button had an easy decision to make - he was falling back from others, he was struggling on inters, he had NOTHING to lose. Hamilton on the other hand had something to lose. Usually in a situation like this, you never see leaders pitting first, because it would be stupid for them to take such a risk. If Button had been 2nd or leading, we all know there is no way he would have pitted.

[ioan]

Funny how st.devote has not replied to the points henners made.

All in all, button had an easy decision to make - he was falling back from others, he was struggling on inters, he had NOTHING to lose. Hamilton on the other hand had something to lose. Usually in a situation like this, you never see leaders pitting first, because it would be stupid for them to take such a risk. If Button had been 2nd or leading, we all know there is no way he would have pitted.

Exactly.

[Saint Devote]

Funny how st.devote has not replied to the points henners made.



Its not "funny".

I have siad all that is neccessary. And for me Jackie Stewart's compliment to Jense after the race says it all and is way above everything else.

Yes the decision was easy :rolleyes:
Havent you realized yet that the top drivers make everything look easy? Its like any mastercraftsman.

Problem is as someone said years ago: there is more to being like Niki Lauda than using the same aftershave.

Only important item: Jenson won the grand prix and outqualified Hamilton, something those like you, the Jenson Resenters, said could never happen!!!

Well it did happen and in a most enjoyable way. And just like those who have always said Jenson wont do this or that, you keep on being proven WRONG!

You ought to have your face in the dictionary for persevering in error!

[gloomyDAY]

I have siad all that is neccessary. And for me Jackie Stewart's compliment to Jense after the race says it all and is way above everything else.We all know that half-wit is always right.

[Saint Devote]

We all know that half-wit is always right.

That is how you talk about the great 3-time world champion Jackie Stewart?

The man that has done more for safety that anyone else. The driver who knew Jim Clark and drove one of the most magnificent races on a very wet Nurburgring?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself - but on the other hand, I cannot expect anything else from you.

Very sad indeed, but fortunately we do not find those like you at grand prix race tracks in Europe.

[gloomyDAY]

You ought to be ashamed of yourself - but on the other hand, I cannot expect anything else from you.Thanks for the lecture Dad.
Can I still take the Bel Air out for prom?




Edit: Why the hell are we talking about Bunsen? Oh, we got an StD in the thread.

[Valve Bounce]

Exactly.

Look at it this way: Bunsen made the decision, he did the tyre change, he won the race.

I can't believe that after so many days, some people here are still confused about this. :rolleyes:

This thread is about Lewis Hamilton, guys!!

[Valve Bounce]

We all know that half-wit is always right.

Please don't tell me you think like Max!! :eek:

[gloomyDAY]

I'm glad Lewis put on a spectacle for us in Malaysia. I also take back the fact that I stated Lewis should have been penalized for swerving, but it is obvious that he was just trying to break the draft from Petrov and stayed on his line right before he braked.

[pino]

For the 2nd time, please keep this on topic !

[Valve Bounce]

For the 2nd time, please keep this on topic !

pino, I think we are getting to the end of the line on this discussion, and only diversions will spark any further interest and discussion.