KERS for 2011? The teams have a chat...

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82593

I wish this issue would be buried. I was never a fan of KERS, but I understand that other forum-goers believe that KERS is a technical innovation that should be pushed to its limits. I on the other hand believe that it's another gimmick that's only going to push F1 in the wrong direction.

Give me your thoughts!

[maximilian]

Unnecessary techno gadget that just drives budgets up. If it's mandatory, what's the use, because the advantage would be equalized amongst all teams - one presses the button to pass, the other to defend. If some teams don't have it, it creates a two-tier system of competition, which I am even more against. The fewer techno gadgets, the better.

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82593

I wish this issue would be buried. I was never a fan of KERS, but I understand that other forum-goers believe that KERS is a technical innovation that should be pushed to its limits. I on the other hand believe that it's another gimmick that's only going to push F1 in the wrong direction.

Give me your thoughts!

I think that KERS might be something useful for buses which have to stop frequently; but apart from the pinnacle argument, (which can include a zillion other innovations) I see that it's one helluva way to spend more money.

[truefan72]

i like kers. in today's era of F1 it would improve overtaking. Perhpas a more powerful kers this time around also.

[stephenw_us]

If we get the 18" rear tires too then I am all for it...

[jens]

KERS ought to come back only if it is mandatory on all cars. Otherwise it would distract overtaking opportunities even more! What's the point of racing, when a KERS-car easily breezes past a non-KERS car at the start and subsequently holds him up all race with the latter having no chance of making an impact?! That's pointless and a killer of racing. But we saw plenty of such occasions last year.

[christophulus]

Bolting it onto a current F1 car is a bit of a gimmick, and all cars having it does make it seem a little pointless, and rather misses the actual reason why cars can't overtake - the dirty air.

Having said that, integrating KERS into a new engine spec somewhere down the line is a good idea, but that won't happen for a few years yet.

I like the sound of the big wheels though..

[DexDexter]

I think they made a mistake not to use it this year, I mean last year it did create possibilities for overtaking, Räikkönen flying past Fisi at Spa was a good example of that. Of course if everybody has it, it'll even things up but it could make a small difference and the concept of energy recovery would improve F1's image as well.

[ArrowsFA1]

I hope we don't see KERS return. If every team has it then it just cancels itself out. Driver A uses KERS to overtake, driver B uses KERS to defend.

It's the same as the suggestion made by Ant & Crofty this morning about introducing driver adjustable front & rear wings.

Both ideas are simply tweaks which don't address the real issue.

[Somebody]

If they bring it back, they NEED to free up the specs - no "X seconds/Y kJ per lap", all the energy they can harvest should be available or there's no point to it.

[ioan]

Everything that adds to the technical side of F1 is welcome especially KERS given that the idiots limited the engine's revs.

[ioan]

If they bring it back, they NEED to free up the specs - no "X seconds/Y kJ per lap", all the energy they can harvest should be available or there's no point to it.

:up:

[gloomyDAY]

If they bring it back, they NEED to free up the specs - no "X seconds/Y kJ per lap", all the energy they can harvest should be available or there's no point to it.Not gonna happen. :(

That's one of many reasons why I don't want to see KERS in F1.
Just another standardized piece of equipment that would water down the sport.

[DexDexter]

If they bring it back, they NEED to free up the specs - no "X seconds/Y kJ per lap", all the energy they can harvest should be available or there's no point to it.

I'd like to see more KERS (more power) than they had last year, even if the time limit stayed the same.


Not gonna happen. :(

That's one of many reasons why I don't want to see KERS in F1.
Just another standardized piece of equipment that would water down the sport.

How does "green" technology water down the sport? KERS is pretty advanced stuff and even if it was standardised, it would still be hi-tech, which is what F1 is all about.

[jens]

I think they made a mistake not to use it this year, I mean last year it did create possibilities for overtaking, Räikkönen flying past Fisi at Spa was a good example of that. Of course if everybody has it, it'll even things up but it could make a small difference and the concept of energy recovery would improve F1's image as well.

Overtaking should be an art, not "flying past another driver", especially if the latter has no chance to respond.

I think KERS, which adds 0,3 secs per lap might not work that well if everyone has it, but if it is simply given let's say a total of 60-second boost for the whole race (like it was the case in ChampCar), we could see more overtaking.

Oh and if they are going to bring KERS back, it should certainly be a standard system developed by an outsourced company. Teams have surely had already enough of wasting resources on it.

[52Paddy]

Overtaking should be an art, not "flying past another driver"

You sir, have hit the nail on the head. By implementing KERS, you are using technology to correct a fundamental problem with sport - overtaking - when in reality, it's the aero regs that need to be changed in order to produce overtaking. They're not aiming any of their "solutions" at the aerodynamics.


KERS is pretty advanced stuff and even if it was standardised, it would still be hi-tech, which is what F1 is all about.

Is it though? As far as I'm concerned, with KERS, the FIA are trying to get the best of both worlds i.e. move the technical level of the sport to newer heights while also improving the spectacle. In my opinion, they should focus simply on giving drivers an equal opportunity to race against each other and not to be compromised by running close behind a rival. The team bosses, technical directors and other team personnel have enough intelligence to come up with new ideas all the time and move the sport along technically by default, as it has always been throughout the decades.

[truefan72]

I hope we don't see KERS return. If every team has it then it just cancels itself out. Driver A uses KERS to overtake, driver B uses KERS to defend.

It's the same as the suggestion made by Ant & Crofty this morning about introducing driver adjustable front & rear wings.

Both ideas are simply tweaks which don't address the real issue.

I think the reintroduction of kers if done with all cars will not cancel things out. each driver will choose where and when to apply kers and how aggressive they can be over a lap therefore making it quite possible that some will use it to defend a position while others will use it more effectively to pass. I can see a car with better straight line speed not using kers on the main straight, while the poorer car in front of him does. then on the tighter sections and good exit locations, that car would use the extra burst to gain the necessary advantage to set up a proper pass.

If your car is faster anyway, then kers simply makes it easier to pass. If your car is slower then kers gives you an opportunity to defend your position and perhaps shakeup the order. Both are exciting prospects to a race IMO.

[ioan]

Overtaking should be an art, not "flying past another driver", especially if the latter has no chance to respond.

I think KERS, which adds 0,3 secs per lap might not work that well if everyone has it, but if it is simply given let's say a total of 60-second boost for the whole race (like it was the case in ChampCar), we could see more overtaking.

Oh and if they are going to bring KERS back, it should certainly be a standard system developed by an outsourced company. Teams have surely had already enough of wasting resources on it.

We don't want no Champcar crap in F1.

Overtaking should be an art? You're killing me! :D

[52Paddy]

Overtaking should be an art? You're killing me! :D

I don't see what's so funny here. A driver can display skill and expression through overtaking maneuvers. It's not an art on parallel with painting, music or dancing obviously, but it should still require a full input from the driver's ability and not be a maneuver that is spoon-fed through KERS or the like.

[Zico]

Overtaking should be an art? You're killing me! :D

Sarcasm at the current lack in F1 or you dont you consider overtaking as a racing skill? :\

I say he's spot on, Kers might sound green and high-tech but in reality has proved to be just a gimmick. As has been said.. Aero is where we should be looking to address the overtaking problem.

[Robinho]

spec KERS, no, but a developed system that is only limited by either power or time used, definately not both, would be a welcome addition IMO.

[Sonic]

Everything that adds to the technical side of F1 is welcome especially KERS given that the idiots limited the engine's revs.

Bravo! Now that there is no variation in engines ( :( )I'd love to see an umlimited KERS system. The williams fly wheel system always interested me and I'm sure other teams could come up with some interesting idea too.

On the subject of the rear wheels, we are only talking about the size of the rims? The tyres themselves, although low profile, would have the same width etc?

[gloomyDAY]

Williams is the first team out on the spotlight to advocate the return of KERS.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83171

I think KERS will re-emerge in F1. Relevant to today's auto industry, McLaren implemented the technology effective towards the end of last season, and there are limitations that could stop KERS from being a money vacuum.

I'm not a fan of KERS and do not want to see its return to F1. The main reason being that the FIA has capped its usage and secondly I'm opposed to a push-to-pass system implemented by a racing series. We don't need anymore artificiality in F1!

Thoughts?

[Mark in Oshawa]

KERS is a gimmick and a sop to the green crowd. It didn't make the racing any better, and it is expensive.

Clean up the cars, and take the carbon fibre brakes off the car lengthnening the braking zones...and THEN we will see overtaking.

KERS? Dumb idea...and a gimmick.

[Koz]

KERS is the reason Force India don't have a win. That I find disappointing.

The pinnacle of motorsports does not need cheap gimmicks like KERS.

[Retro Formula 1]

KERS will be back in 2013 along with the reduction in engine size and introduction of Turbo's.

KERS isn't a gimmick but was the way the FIA introduced it. Energy recovery needs to be opened up and allow the teams to innovate.

[Sonic]

KERS will be back in 2013 along with the reduction in engine size and introduction of Turbo's.

KERS isn't a gimmick but was the way the FIA introduced it. Energy recovery needs to be opened up and allow the teams to innovate.

Indeed. KERS could be very interesting if the technology could develop freely. It could either provide an unlimited power boost to the cars or (if you're a greenie) set a fuel limit for the race (perhaps inadequate to make the flag) and use KERS to maintain speed whilst conservingfuel.

[ShiftingGears]

IMO they should free up the engine rules a lot more. Whilst the aero regs are there to keep corner speeds down and try to improve overtaking, there should be more variables where possible. The engine freeze and the rev limit are a joke.

[Retro Formula 1]

Indeed. KERS could be very interesting if the technology could develop freely. It could either provide an unlimited power boost to the cars or (if you're a greenie) set a fuel limit for the race (perhaps inadequate to make the flag) and use KERS to maintain speed whilst conservingfuel.

Give them unlimited engine development / size / configuration / asperation and 100L of fuel per race with any type of energy recovery they want to use.

I'm involved with a 90mph battery assisted pedal car with a 2h range so know what recovery can be achieved.

[SGWilko]

KERS is a gimmick and a sop to the green crowd. It didn't make the racing any better.

Eh? You are joshing, right?

[Sonic]

Give them unlimited engine development / size / configuration / asperation and 100L of fuel per race with any type of energy recovery they want to use.

I'm involved with a 90mph battery assisted pedal car with a 2h range so know what recovery can be achieved.

See now i'd be right on board with that. True inovation.

[ShiftingGears]

KERS is the reason Force India don't have a win. That I find disappointing.

The pinnacle of motorsports does not need cheap gimmicks like KERS.

It's really not that much different to turbos when you think about it.

In the turbo era the smart drivers would turn up the boost pressure when they needed to, but otherwise, did not overuse it to conserve the turbo.

The cheap gimmick comes from the FIA incorporating KERS in push-to-pass systems.

[SGWilko]

It's really not that much different to turbos when you think about it.

In the turbo era the smart drivers would turn up the boost pressure when they needed to, but otherwise, did not overuse it to conserve the turbo.

The cheap gimmick comes from the FIA incorporating KERS in push-to-pass systems.

The boost button was also used sparingly by the intelligent driver to save fuel.

[I am evil Homer]

KERS is a gimmick and a sop to the green crowd. It didn't make the racing any better, and it is expensive.

Clean up the cars, and take the carbon fibre brakes off the car lengthnening the braking zones...and THEN we will see overtaking.

KERS? Dumb idea...and a gimmick.

It's more to do with what tech can be put into road cars and KERS is one where manufactures are already looking at. So not gimmicky in any way, certain no more so than run flat tyres that came out of the WRC.

KERS is a fantastic idea but was implemented all wrong into F1.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It's more to do with what tech can be put into road cars and KERS is one where manufactures are already looking at. So not gimmicky in any way, certain no more so than run flat tyres that came out of the WRC.

KERS is a fantastic idea but was implemented all wrong into F1.

It is a gimmick. The technology it could be argued came from the hybrids that are on the street today.

This was a sop to the PR side of the sport who wanted to have a green angle.

[christophulus]

I doubt it'll make a difference, especially if they keep the old rules of six seconds boost per lap - everyone uses it at the same time and no net gain. Long term it needs to be incorporated into a new engine, but the FIA won't allow teams any freedom to develop it next season so it's pointless.

If they let drivers only use it 10 times per race or whatever it might work (it's still a gimmick, but it's the only way it'll have any impact), otherwise it's additional cost for no additional gain, and makes no headway into curing the real problem of the "dirty air" coming off the cars.

[V12]

I think it would be a good thing so long as it's

a) non-standard, otherwise what's the point - just a gimmick to please the overtaking and environmental crowds.
b) non-mandatory, I don't see the two-tier arguments, since if it becomes that much of an advantage, what's the point of making it mandatory - all the teams will adopt it by their own free will if it makes their cars go faster.
c) unlimited - let the teams use as much power as they can harness from the brakes, in whichever way they choose, at any time, then it would get really fun.

Sadly I get the feeling any re-introduction would fail on all three counts.

As I've said many a time, there's no need for sporting and environmental issues to conflict, since something that improves efficiency like this, not only reduces emissions, but helps the car's performance, they go hand-in-hand.

[Sonic]

As I've said many a time, there's no need for sporting and environmental issues to conflict, since something that improves efficiency like this, not only reduces emissions, but helps the car's performance, they go hand-in-hand.

Bravo!