2010 Malaysian Grand Prix

[truefan72]

We really do see some absolute neuroses on display here, don't we? Bloody hell.

just ignore him, I just did. Life is too short to deal with kind of nonsense

[Robinho]

Provide details where he has been sanctioned directly against through actions on the track. Lying to the FIA and collaborating against Davey Ryan is not on track.

Never mind the Internet - thats not the press. The British media have never criticised him in any way for his actions on track and the Speed commentators virtually chortle with delight regardless - except of course when Petrov retook Hamilton totday - but then they recovered and decided that it had to be the tyres.

Hamilton will continue to get away with anything and we can just hop it will never get a driver killed.

are you for real - there is a thread from this race discussing the weaving where several people have condemned it.

the FIA have sanctioned him during races in both the Belgian (incorrectly IMO) and Japanese (correctly IMO) IIRC. he was panned on this very forum for receiving a crane ride out of the gravel at the Nurburgring.

he was roasted, rightly, both on forums and the press for crashing in the pitlane in China and throwing away the title on worn inters, whilst it was widely speculated by many here and in the press that Lewis himself pressed something on the steering wheel which lead to the loss of power in Brazil that same year.

Webber and i think Trulli were quite outspoken about his driving in the wet monza race, and were backed up on here by some.

some of those things i have defended, some i have condemned, and i am quite a fan of his, more of his driving, less so of his since the 1st couple of seasons. for what its worth o saw very little wrong with the "weave" and it was clearly not blocking. Kudos to Petrov for the fightback on Lewis (from the previous lap IIRC)

i don't feel that any of the criticism or lack of has anything to do with his skin colour. the brits have been crying out for a combative, battling driver who gives no quarter, not entirely different from the Scumi mould. Hamilton's drive today typified that.

[truefan72]

I agree with you. In the eyes of the British Media and some European publications, Hamilton can do no wrong.

It's all about money! His bi-racial background opens up a new market and fan base for modern day F1. He is the European version of Tiger Woods (Pre-scandal). A slap on the wrist is the most punishment he'll receive for now.

Like Tiger Woods, Hamilton is heavily protected by his handlers and the McLaren PR machine. It's amazing that his reputation was kept relatively intact after his tangle with Alonso (2007), Stephneygate & the 2009 Australian GP fiasco.

Hamilton may not carry the global appeal or endorsement dollars of Tiger Woods during his peak years, but he's still an amazing talent and worthy of a seat in F1. But we all know it only takes 1 huge scandal to change everything. Simply look at the Tiger Woods sex scandals. His current reputation amongst the media and endorsement opportunities have taken a beating.

ridiculous, now ignored

[Robinho]

Petrov should have used the old Fittipaldi method to fool Hamilton as the British driver weaved to try and block the Russian.

Move one way and then immediately switch to the other side - problem is Hamilton would probably have hit his car and with open wheels the result would not have been pretty.

On the other hand the big Russian versus the little Brit in pitlane? My money would be on Vitaly :-]

how would he have hit him, he was behind him trying to keep in the tow of the Mclaren?

i agree the weaving was not the smartest thing, maybe a little excessive, and i think the warning from teh stewards was probably fair and the right course of action. presumabely you are dusting off your white robes?

[Daniel]

WOW just WOW. Can't believe that people are bringing colour into the mix like this.

[BDunnell]

WOW just WOW. Can't believe that people are bringing colour into the mix like this.

I can, because, sadly, there are still a lot of people out there with pretty bonkers views on matters relating to race.

[Wasted Talent]

On the other hand the big Russian versus the little Brit in pitlane? My money would be on Vitaly :-]

My money would be on Petrov's mother.......

WT

BTW Lewis's colour is irrelevant.............

[Daniel]

are you for real - there is a thread from this race discussing the weaving where several people have condemned it.

the FIA have sanctioned him during races in both the Belgian (incorrectly IMO) and Japanese (correctly IMO) IIRC. he was panned on this very forum for receiving a crane ride out of the gravel at the Nurburgring.

he was roasted, rightly, both on forums and the press for crashing in the pitlane in China and throwing away the title on worn inters, whilst it was widely speculated by many here and in the press that Lewis himself pressed something on the steering wheel which lead to the loss of power in Brazil that same year.

Webber and i think Trulli were quite outspoken about his driving in the wet monza race, and were backed up on here by some.

some of those things i have defended, some i have condemned, and i am quite a fan of his, more of his driving, less so of his since the 1st couple of seasons. for what its worth o saw very little wrong with the "weave" and it was clearly not blocking. Kudos to Petrov for the fightback on Lewis (from the previous lap IIRC)

i don't feel that any of the criticism or lack of has anything to do with his skin colour. the brits have been crying out for a combative, battling driver who gives no quarter, not entirely different from the Scumi mould. Hamilton's drive today typified that.

:up:

Definitely! I've criticised Lewis many a time for wayward driving and bonehead mistakes.

I'll say it again I don't think Lewis did ANYTHING that was any more dangerous today than what goes on every weekend. He wasn't swerving to block or anything as people are suggesting and if Petrov had attempted to overtake I'm sure Hamilton would have stopped his swerving :)

I'd like to think I'm Lewis' biggest critic but anyone but the most boneheaded bigot had to give it to Lewis today because he drove a corker of a race.

[truefan72]

WOW just WOW. Can't believe that people are bringing colour into the mix like this.

in the past I have accused you of some questionable posts but in hindsight those were more borne out of combative dialogue. This however is just plain wrong and is so thinly veiled that it might as well be in the open. Saint has injected politics coupled with some highly charged rhetoric vis-a-vis nationalism and more in this forum far too often and I just wonder when the mods will decide that this is not the place for him to be given a forum for his shallow world views.

The anger might have something to do with Hamilton leaving Button in his dust and that might just be too much to bear. It literally might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

[truefan72]

:up:

Definitely! I've criticised Lewis many a time for wayward driving and bonehead mistakes.

I'll say it again I don't think Lewis did ANYTHING that was any more dangerous today than what goes on every weekend. He wasn't swerving to block or anything as people are suggesting and if Petrov had attempted to overtake I'm sure Hamilton would have stopped his swerving :)

I'd like to think I'm Lewis' biggest critic but anyone but the most boneheaded bigot had to give it to Lewis today because he drove a corker of a race.

yep and that's the way it should be.

I am no alonso fan and a huge Hamilton fan, but I gave Alonso my driver of the race today because no matter what my personal dislikes are. His performance today was genius. And for the first time i actually shouted "oh no" when his ferrari engine let go.

[Daniel]

in the past I have accused you of some questionable posts but in hindsight those were more borne out of combative dialogue. This however is just plain wrong and is so thinly veiled that it might as well be in the open. Saint has injected politics coupled with some highly charged rhetoric vis-a-vis nationalism and more in this forum far too often and I just wonder when the mods will decide that this is not the place for him to be given a forum for his shallow world views.

The anger might have something to do with Hamilton leaving Button in his dust and that might just be too much to bear. It literally might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

No probs :) Sometimes we have little misunderstandings and we'll leave it at that :up:

[truefan72]

No probs :) Sometimes we have little misunderstandings and we'll leave it at that :up:

cool :)

[wedge]

Under normal conditions, such as today, the team chooses who comes in first. They always call in the leading car first, otherwise the team would be showing favouritism to the trailing car. Webber didn't pit before Vettel because the team called Vettel in first, then Webber. To blame this on the driver is just plain silly.

Wrong

Last year's Spanish GP, Button's race engineer altered his strategy mid-race when he was Behind Rubens.

RBR must still have monkeys left over from last year working in the pits doing strategy. That or Webbo was on tranquillizers this morning.

[ozrevhead]

Why the heck do you repeatedly bring Lewis' colour into it? Dude, what I want to say would get me banned.... :dozey:
In a perfect world it shouldnt be an issue but the truth is most are scared to say what they think about in the fear they branded racist - for example I know two people that have created havoc in their workplaces and were not sacked because they would place the race card and get away with it because my work was too scared of the tag.

If we want to critisize someone for doing somthing stupid or their performance is not as it should be in the workforce then we should without fear of the 'tag'

I dont care if hes pink with green polka dots, he is my least favorite driver on the grid and gets away with too much IMHO

[Saint Devote]

In a perfect world it shouldnt be an issue but the truth is most are scared to say what they think about in the fear they branded racist - for example I know two people that have created havoc in their workplaces and were not sacked because they would place the race card and get away with it because my work was too scared of the tag.

If we want to critisize someone for doing somthing stupid or their performance is not as it should be in the workforce then we should without fear of the 'tag'

I dont care if hes pink with green polka dots, he is my least favorite driver on the grid and gets away with too much IMHO

Exactly.

In the US for example, ANYTHING can be said about white people and of course white MEN by anyone that is not white, and IS said and, nothing happens. The media especially lead the charge.

Just try returning the same type of commentary and see the screaming and shouting - racist is the most popular one, and it does frighten many people in liberal areas.

Lewis is not responsible for THAT sort of attitude but the resultant fawning over anything he does, does provide him with a significant amount of leeway which he uses to bend rules such as his weaving in front of Petrov to prevent being overtaken by the Renault again.

[truefan72]

In a perfect world it shouldnt be an issue but the truth is most are scared to say what they think about in the fear they branded racist - for example I know two people that have created havoc in their workplaces and were not sacked because they would place the race card and get away with it because my work was too scared of the tag.

If we want to critisize someone for doing somthing stupid or their performance is not as it should be in the workforce then we should without fear of the 'tag'

I dont care if hes pink with green polka dots, he is my least favorite driver on the grid and gets away with too much IMHO

people have criticized Hamilton in the press, paddock and forums without being labeled a racist,. but if you bring race into the discussion as to how you perceive his coverage & fame then it is you who are seeing things from a racial point of view. And then naturally making assumptions about this or that which have nothing to do with anything, especially F1.

When a driver drives an incredible race and a certain poster comes on here and goes on an unprovoked rant about him getting preferential treatment because of his race and delving deeper into the issue with all sorts of inaccuracies, then it is easy to view that person has having an issue with Hamilton that has nothing to do with his skill, performance or the topic being discussed.

[ozrevhead]

people have criticized Hamilton in the press, paddock and forums without being labeled a racist,. but if you bring race into the discussion as to how you perceive his coverage & fame then it is you who are seeing things from a racial point of view. And then naturally making assumptions about this or that which have nothing to do with anything, especially F1.

When a driver drives an incredible race and a certain poster comes on here and goes on an unprovoked rant about him getting preferential treatment because of his race and delving deeper into the issue with all sorts of inaccuracies, then it is easy to view that person has having an issue with Hamilton that has nothing to do with his skill, performance or the topic being discussed.
you have proven my point - you assumed race is why I dont like Lewis and without saying the word have banded me racist

And I rest my case

[Saint Devote]

in the past I have accused you of some questionable posts but in hindsight those were more borne out of combative dialogue. This however is just plain wrong and is so thinly veiled that it might as well be in the open. Saint has injected politics coupled with some highly charged rhetoric vis-a-vis nationalism and more in this forum far too often and I just wonder when the mods will decide that this is not the place for him to be given a forum for his shallow world views.

The anger might have something to do with Hamilton leaving Button in his dust and that might just be too much to bear. It literally might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Taking drivers to task is one thing, but you level insults at fellow posters here and THAT is not permitted.

Ad hominen attacks against me by you ought to bring down instant retribution by the moderator.

Hamilton beating Button? Out of three races so far, Jenson has outqualified Hamilton twice, won a grand prix and is ahead of him in the WDC.

According to people like yourself, before the season this was just NOT probable or even possible. It could NEVER happen.

Therefore that Hamilton finished ahead of Jenson ought to be considered the norm. Instead you remark about it. I think it is YOU that is irked by Jenson's position rather than the other way around.

As a Jenson supporter I have nothing to complain about :D

[wedge]

Lewis is not responsible for THAT sort of attitude but the resultant fawning over anything he does, does provide him with a significant amount of leeway which he uses to bend rules such as his weaving in front of Petrov to prevent being overtaken by the Renault again.

You mean like in 2008 when he was penalized by the stewards at the French and Belgian GPs.

Or how about misleading the stewards in Australia last year? The British media had a field day and were quite happy to pour scorn on Hamilton and quite rightly so.

[gloomyDAY]

Wow! This thread really lost its way.

I thought we were supposed to discuss the Malaysian GP.

[Saint Devote]

you have proven my point - you assumed race is why I dont like Lewis and without saying the word have banded me racist

And I rest my case

Oh well debated!!!
Talk about a right hook followed by something from left field for a knockout!

Your opponent is seeing stars right now :s mokin:

[BDunnell]

you have proven my point - you assumed race is why I dont like Lewis and without saying the word have banded me racist

And I rest my case

I honestly suggest you read truefan72's very well-put and carefully-phrased post again.

[ozrevhead]

I honestly suggest you read truefan72's very well-put and carefully-phrased post again.
I have and he has been very clever not to come straight out with it

[BDunnell]

Ad hominen attacks against me by you ought to bring down instant retribution by the moderator.

If you must throw Latin around — and maybe it should be pointed out that it's just a tad pretentious to do so — at least get it right. It's ad hominem, not 'hominen'.

[BDunnell]

I have and he has been very clever not to come straight out with it

No, he is presenting a well-reasoned argument without resorting to inflammatory language. You seem desperate for someone to call you a racist so you can rebut them.

[DexDexter]

Exactly.

In the US for example, ANYTHING can be said about white people and of course white MEN by anyone that is not white, and IS said and, nothing happens. The media especially lead the charge.

Just try returning the same type of commentary and see the screaming and shouting - racist is the most popular one, and it does frighten many people in liberal areas.

Lewis is not responsible for THAT sort of attitude but the resultant fawning over anything he does, does provide him with a significant amount of leeway which he uses to bend rules such as his weaving in front of Petrov to prevent being overtaken by the Renault again.

I had forgotten that Lewis was black, that's how important it is to me and I hope everybody here feels the same :)

[ozrevhead]

No, he is presenting a well-reasoned argument without resorting to inflammatory language. You seem desperate for someone to call you a racist so you can rebut them.
its a tag im quite happy without thank you very much!

Im not going to suck up to lewis just because people will brand me racist for not doing so

[ozrevhead]

No, he is presenting a well-reasoned argument without resorting to inflammatory language. You seem desperate for someone to call you a racist so you can rebut them.
its a tag im quite happy without thank you very much!

Im not going to suck up to lewis just because people will brand me racist for not doing so

[BDunnell]

Im not going to suck up to lewis just because people will brand me racist for not doing so

Will people really do that though?

[Saint Devote]

You mean like in 2008 when he was penalized by the stewards at the French and Belgian GPs.

Or how about misleading the stewards in Australia last year? The British media had a field day and were quite happy to pour scorn on Hamilton and quite rightly so.

They ought to have given him a drive through today as well for his action on Petrov.

What media?
The motor racing media have never acted that way and they are the ones that count, nobody else.

[ozrevhead]

Will people really do that though?
more than most on the forum realise by the looks of it

[BDunnell]

What media?
The motor racing media have never acted that way and they are the ones that count, nobody else.

Literally never? Honestly?

[BDunnell]

more than most on the forum think by the looks of it

Well, if people pointlessly and utterly without foundation bring race into a discussion such as this, they are the ones who ought to reconsider their views on race.

[Daniel]

They ought to have given him a drive through today as well for his action on Petrov.

What media?
The motor racing media have never acted that way and they are the ones that count, nobody else.

You are Steve Jobs, you live in a reality distortion field and I claim my £5

I've started a thread in forum feedback and chit chat to highlight your racism and hopefully put an end to your time on this forum.

Ben, did you lose a sig bet? :)

[gloomyDAY]

Anyway, very good race. Even if qualifying had been dry I still think that the race would have had some surprises. I'm also impressed with Rosberg and how calm he has been during this season, albeit only 3 races out of the way. His ability to focus on the task at hand without letting The Shoe get to him is commendable. Rosberg may be the guy under the radar who will have a title shot towards the end of this season.

[ozrevhead]

Not that I'm really in the mood to talk about it but in a attempt to get it back on track, Is it me or is Jamie turning into a driver with great potential - very impressed with him so far in 2010

[ozrevhead]

Well, if people pointlessly and utterly without foundation bring race into a discussion such as this, they are the ones who ought to reconsider their views on race.
why dont you just come out and say it rather than beat around the bush

[Daniel]

Im not going to suck up to lewis just because people will brand me racist for not doing so

That's just silly. I've been one of Lewis' most vocal critics on here and only one person has wrongly accused me of being a bit racist and they've admitted publicly on the forum today that they were wrong.

[Daniel]

why dont you just come out and say it rather than beat around the bush
He's talking about Saint Devote FFS!

[BDunnell]

Ben, did you lose a sig bet? :)

Absolutely not. I felt the fine website in question, and especially the videos thereon, deserved a wider audience.

[ozrevhead]

He's talking about Saint Devote FFS!
should of said so at the start the and not say I want someone to call me racisit just to prove my point BEFORE making that statement

what nerve!

[BDunnell]

why dont you just come out and say it rather than beat around the bush

And to think you denied that you are desperate to be called a racist just so you can deny the allegation! You don't, with respect, seem to have a very nuanced view on the subject. I don't know on the basis of this brief discussion on Lewis Hamilton whether or not you are a racist, but you do seem to agree with the unnecessary introduction of race into the matter, so therefore I think you ought to re-think your opinions. Beating about the bush doesn't come into it.

[ozrevhead]

And to think you denied that you are desperate to be called a racist just so you can deny the allegation! You don't, with respect, seem to have a very nuanced view on the subject. I don't know on the basis of this brief discussion on Lewis Hamilton whether or not you are a racist, but you do seem to agree with the unnecessary introduction of race into the matter, so therefore I think you ought to re-think your opinions. Beating about the bush doesn't come into it.
being almost 30 I think I am quite ept for making my own mind

Who would want to be called racist, do you honestly think im that stupid????

I dont care if you think im right or wrong on the issue - what I resent is the insuation by yourself that I am or want to be called racisit. I dont believe that was your intention but you have and you rather insult me than realise that when peole make a statement not everyone will take it the same way you do.

TBH ive had a gutfull of this forum and im sure the feeling is mutual - I can take being ridiculed for being too emotional and passionate but I wont stomach this garbage

[ShiftingGears]

My money would be on Petrov's mother.......

WT

:laugh:

[Saint Devote]

The Toro Rosso driver did have a good race and he had better be consistent from now on because Tost and Marko like to make team changes mid-year.

[BDunnell]

being almost 30 I think I am quite ept for making my own mind

Who would want to be called racist, do you honestly think im that stupid????

I dont care if you think im right or wrong on the issue - what I resent is the insuation by yourself that I am or want to be called racisit. I dont believe that was your intention but you have and you rather insult me than realise that when you say somthing not every will take it the same way you do.

Well, you have several times asked us all to 'come right out and say it', having supported the initial assertion that bringing race into the issue was legitimate, something with which most people here seem to disagree strongly.

[Saint Devote]

:laugh:

During qualifying she smiled like I have never seen before - even during his GP2 days, when Vitaly headed the timesheet briefly.

Actually I think she could be his manager Oksana Kosachenko, either way, manager or mother she is not afraid of fisticffs.

[Saint Devote]

Question: would Hamilton have sought the rational decision to give Jenson room and run wide had the positions been reversed?

There are drivers that think about the championship or just stay their ground and claim that the other car - teammate or not - ran into them.

We saw today that Hamilton is prepared to tangle with the rule book if his position is threatened.

Bernie likes drivers such as Hamilton, he has stated that clearly. Whereas when asked in a recent interview, Jenson stated that he would not like to win using tactics that Schumacher did.

This is a fundamemtal difference between the two of them. I like Jenson because of it and would be extremely disappointed if he ever acted like Hamilton.

I wonder whether that move will compromise intra-team relationships. Hamilton was nowhere to be seen when Jenson won and the team photo was taken in Melbourne.

I think Hamilton would not mind acromony whereas Jenson is different and prefers team harmony. Of course there is also the Kimi not caring way too.

It is only the third race and no doubt Hamilton is simmering that Jenson has already won a grand prix in the new Mclaren and is just ahead in the championship.

At this rate sooner or later a real clash may occur where Jenson will not give way to Hamilton and a crash will occur.

I do not think that Whitmarsh will be fooled by Hamilton and he is not Ron Dennis either. Jenson is also his first signing as a team principle.

Although if Red Bull has found reliability now and Webber has clamed down then taking points from each other will be a problem in any championship run.

[wedge]

Question: would Hamilton have sought the rational decision to give Jenson room and run wide had the positions been reversed?

???

Jenson gave Hamilton no quarter as Lewis exited the pits

[gloomyDAY]

being almost 30...Tell me more about yourself. :D

[truefan72]

you have proven my point - you assumed race is why I dont like Lewis and without saying the word have banded me racist

And I rest my case

you must not be reading the same posts the rest of us do. did you not agree/defend the saint and add to his point?
and for the record when I said "some posters" i was referring to the saint.

but I guess you want to conveniently ignore the fact that you quoted DB, defended and agreed with the saints sad comments and added your own 2 cents to the issue. seems to me you are trying to have it both ways.

I assumed nothing of you, merely pointed out the unwise choice of injecting race into the discussion. you make a questionable comments and finish off the post with a disclaimer. I'll let others judge your comments
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/report.php?p=775612

[truefan72]

Wow! This thread really lost its way.

I thought we were supposed to discuss the Malaysian GP.

agreed, that will be my last post on this matter
yes back to the gP

[Saint Devote]

On Mclaren twitter it turns out that Jenson had to change his tyres too early and go into saving mode. His option tyre gave no rear grip so Mclaren and Jense decided to pit early.

By the time Hamilton stopped he was slowing and while it looked - to me - as if Hamilton was pushing him, Jenson actually gave Lewis enough room because he was on fresh tyres and would be quicker. Temmates working together.

So my apologies to Lewis for accusing him of pushing Button to the outside.

I am pleased that Lewis and Jenson are working together. As an old school fan I am heavily influenced by the events of the past in racing. Primarily the Senna-Prost and Schumacher-Hakkinen years.

This sort of Mclaren relationship is new to me.

[truefan72]

Anyway, very good race. Even if qualifying had been dry I still think that the race would have had some surprises. I'm also impressed with Rosberg and how calm he has been during this season, albeit only 3 races out of the way. His ability to focus on the task at hand without letting The Shoe get to him is commendable. Rosberg may be the guy under the radar who will have a title shot towards the end of this season.

yep
Rosberg might just be in the picture for the WDC at the end of the year. but he needs to make that leap into the winners circle. Ironically, with the new points system, there may be an outside chance that a driver might win the WDC or come really close without winning more than a race...or non at all

[Saint Devote]

Drivers of the Race are Petrov for he has begun to show his ability - -and worthy of F1 race seat - and Alonso.

The Spaniard nursed the Ferrari by matching the engine revs with the gears available and he and Jense [worn tyres] had a great dice.

Yes the engine blew, but only two laps from the end, but he overrode the car and took control of the Ferrari, never relenting. He deserved better - naturally behind Jense in the Mclaren :-]

[Saint Devote]

yep
Rosberg might just be in the picture for the WDC at the end of the year. but he needs to make that leap into the winners circle. Ironically, with the new points system, there may be an outside chance that a driver might win the WDC or come really close without winning more than a race...or non at all

Like his father Keke? not likely. It could only occur if there was another year like 1982 and that is just not what anyone would want.

Nico is indeed a fine racing driver and appears to have matured at just the right time. It is a long way to go in the season but it does look as if he is moving towards his first grand prix win.

Seeing him on the podium today there was no more a deserving driver. Well done Nico. He grew up and lives in Monte Carlo, and that really is his home race.

If Jenson does not win the Monaco Grand Prix, then it would be great to have Rosberg win.

[ioan]

...and Jense [worn tyres] ...

Impossible, he's the kindest to his tires, or so you were all saying a week ago.

[Robinho]

even the kindest on the tyres will eventually wear them out - he ran the harder compund for longer than anyone else in the race, probably too long to get the best out of them, but still managed a solid points finish