Bunsen celebrates a great win:

[Valve Bounce]

It was a magnificent effort from Bunsen and heere he celebrates his win with his mates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPypWdiC06c

You name the best, he beat the best, including Fernando, and his team mate Lewis Hamilton.

What can I say? The Bunsen burned brightest.

[pino]

Well done Jenson :up:

[F1boat]

It was a magnificent effort from Bunsen and heere he celebrates his win with his mates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPypWdiC06c

You name the best, he beat the best, including Fernando, and his team mate Lewis Hamilton.

What can I say? The Bunsen burned brightest.

GREAT WIN! I support Ferrari as a team, but Jenson did a tremendous job!!! I am so happy for him!

[christophulus]

Good on him. Interesting to hear Button praising the team while Hamilton berates them over the radio. Also Button said he decided to stay out.

[ShiftingGears]

Very well done by Button.

[Koz]

Very well done indeed. You have proved us doubters wrong!

[Robinho]

great drive, won by what, 20 seconds, in not the fastest car, with knackered old tyres.

i remember people saying he'd never win, after winning in the BAR he'd never win again. after wining in the Brawn, he'd never win the champ, and never win in anything less thana dominant car.

and apparently it was his call on the tyres - result.

[F1boat]

In this situation, with this rules, smart drivers like him and Alonso will excel.

[Valve Bounce]

Would this be his greatest drive?

[Garry Walker]

In this situation, with this rules, smart drivers like him and Alonso will excel.

Alonso, the guy who was beaten by his teammate? Why are you not praising Kubica or Massa?

[F1boat]

They are also smart, but the Renault is still a bit behind and I believe that in the end Fred will beat Massa, but you are right, all top 4 drivers were tremendous today IMO.

[Koz]

You guys know the scariest thing about all this?

Saint Devote was right about Button and his tyres...

[Big Ben]

You guys know the scariest thing about all this?

Saint Devote was right about Button and his tyres...

Did you really have to? Isn't he gloating enough without any encouragement?

[Big Ben]

Alonso, the guy who was beaten by his teammate? Why are you not praising Kubica or Massa?

Did you even see the race? Forget about it. I'll go talk to my ficus. It understands more.

[F1boat]

Would this be his greatest drive?

Yes, I think so.

[EuroTroll]

Other than the inspired pitstop timing, I'd say he was unspectacular. Solid, though.

[Valve Bounce]

Other than the inspired pitstop timing, I'd say he was unspectacular. Solid, though.

He did run off into the sand trap after his pitstop, but recovered to soldier on. Great drive, and well deserved win.

By the way, I think we'd better all get the accolades done before the Saint comes back.
Then we can remind him that he ditched Bunsen for Alonso. :p :

[callum122]

Would this be his greatest drive?

Just what I had in my mind. Very happy to see Button win and he completely deserved it!

[F1boat]

He did run off into the sand trap after his pitstop, but recovered to soldier on. Great drive, and well deserved win.

By the way, I think we'd better all get the accolades done before the Saint comes back.
Then we can remind him that he ditched Bunsen for Alonso. :p :

Ahahahah! You are killing me...

[Valve Bounce]

Just what I had in my mind. Very happy to see Button win and he completely deserved it!

You can use my sig if your opponent agrees. :)

[steveaki13]

He saved his tyres very well as right in the last 5-10 Laps he set his fastest lap time I think a low 1:29 when his tyres were really getting worn while Hamilton and Webber were only in the mid 28's so that is pretty impressive.

[F1boat]

He saved his tyres very well as right in the last 5-10 Laps he set his fastest lap time I think a low 1:29 when his tyres were really getting worn while Hamilton and Webber were only in the mid 28's so that is pretty impressive.

I agree. He drove a very smart race and I am impressed that he alone made his tyre choice. As I said, a clever driver.

[woody2goody]

You guys know the scariest thing about all this?

Saint Devote was right about Button and his tyres...

I said it as well :D

Hamilton will be quicker, but will destroy his tyres, while Button will be good to the tyres and be close enough to Lewis to take advantage.

Maybe not his greatest drive, but definitely his hardest in my opinion. Having the concentration and the discipline to not push the tyres too hard is very difficult, and the scary thing is, if the pit stop was better, and he hadn't made that mistake, he'd have won by another 10 seconds!

Not getting carried away, but I don't think the Red Bull's tyres would have held up even if Vettel hadn't have retired. The McLaren isn't the fastest car in Button's hands, but it could be the most effective. It wasn't even warm in Melbourne this weekend either, and Jenson goes extremely well at Sepang.

[F1boat]

But Alonso also excels in Sepang. It will be a fun weekend.

[Garry Walker]

You guys know the scariest thing about all this?

Saint Devote was right about Button and his tyres...

No, he wasnt.


Did you even see the race? Forget about it. I'll go talk to my ficus. It understands more.

Get on your knees and obey your master.




Hamilton will be quicker, but will destroy his tyres, while Button will be good to the tyres and be close enough to Lewis to take advantage.


How did Hamilton destroy his tyres?

[Saint Devote]

I am not gloating I am celebrating :-]

But this is a really SURPISING, thoughtful and pleasant thread. Last week I had decided to leave the forum because of all the unpleasantness but this thread does change my mind.

I am not a supporter of Alonso but I do enjoy praising other drivers [and I have praised Lewis too] also - such as Massa today!

Actually I really do not MEAN to gloat and will in future try and temper my enthusiam as I realize it can become tiresome and annoying.

[F1boat]

I am not gloating I am celebrating :-]

But this is a really SURPISING, thoughtful and pleasant thread. Last week I had decided to leave the forum because of all the unpleasantness but this thread does change my mind.

I am not a supporter of Alonso but I do enjoy praising other drivers [and I have praised Lewis too] also - such as Massa today!

Actually I really do not MEAN to gloat and will in future try and temper my enthusiam as I realize it can become tiresome and annoying.

Actually I support Ferrari, Jenson and Michael this season, so I expect many pleasant races :)

[woody2goody]

How did Hamilton destroy his tyres?

Well he wore out two sets while Button didn't really wear out one. Lewis wasn't the only one: de la Rosa, Schumacher, Webber all had wear issues.

[ioan]

How did Hamilton destroy his tyres?

He didn't but Button fans like to day dream. I'll let them dream now, they will have enough nightmares later.

[ioan]

Well he wore out two sets while Button didn't really wear out one. Lewis wasn't the only one: de la Rosa, Schumacher, Webber all had wear issues.

Lewis didn't have more wear issues than the others before they decided to change his tires.

[Langdale Forest]

I think that Button is now a better driver than Hamilton. :)

[F1boat]

I think that Button is now a better driver than Hamilton. :)

I wouldn't say that, but for me today he was the best driver and I am very happy for him as I have huge respect for the guy, very hard working, humble and the thing I like in him, he always bounces back.

[nigelred5]

great drive, won by what, 20 seconds, in not the fastest car, with knackered old tyres.

i remember people saying he'd never win, after winning in the BAR he'd never win again. after wining in the Brawn, he'd never win the champ, and never win in anything less thana dominant car.

and apparently it was his call on the tyres - result.

I agree, It was a brilliant strategy today and a decent drive. JB's always had the reputation for being very easy on tires. He gambled and won, but he also really had no close on-track pressure to force him to use up his tires. I'd like to also commend Kubica's awesome drive bringing a Renault home in a very impressive second on a similar strategy. JB was very fortunate a couple on track incidents essentially eliminated any real opposition today. Hamilton used up his tires competing with Massa, Alonzo and Weber most of the race.

I've eaten my crow ;) Had Honda remained in F1, I still hold that would all have remained true. Last year's Brawn with Honda power would still have been a dog. Merc power transformed the chassis. I'd hardly call the McLaren he's driving this season a backmarker, but Vettel is starting to look hard on his equipment, and well, Weber can't seem to keep a car on track to save himself, so a dominant RB doesn't guarantee anything. He was nowhere against Vettel imho, but drivers that are easy on their equipment are usually rewarded with good finishes. I'll give JB props on today's drive :)

[woody2goody]

He didn't but Button fans like to day dream. I'll let them dream now, they will have enough nightmares later.

I had a dream that Jenson was the World's Champion. And then I woke up and it was true :)

[F1boat]

I had a dream that Jenson was the World's Champion. And then I woke up and it was true :)

Well said. :-)

[ojciec dyrektor]

You name the best, he beat the best, including Fernando, and his team mate Lewis Hamilton.


To be honest he didn't beat Alonso. He pushed him out of track.

[Saint Devote]

He didn't but Button fans like to day dream. I'll let them dream now, they will have enough nightmares later.

You will let us dream? You have nothing to do with ANYTHING related to us.

We do not have to dream, we face reality and now enjoy it: Jenson is world champion and won the grand prix today.

Nothing fazes us when it comes to Jense. Every grand prix he engages with his "Barmy Army" - thats a good guy. We are all aware how good he is as a driver and appreciate what a solid individual he is.

Do you really think that there is ANYTHING that could now happen after so many years of being a supporter that COULD ever faze us?!

You would like to think that we will have "nightmares". But don't you realize we CAME THROUGH A NIGHTMARE and we stood by Jenson, for years with him having to drive awful cars.

And then just when we thought we has seen the worse, in the winter of 2008 it all looked as if he would not even be driving!!! THAT IS a nightmare.

Today, and since the early days of 2009 its been wonderful. It remains superb - he is a driver for the best team in the world, Mclaren :D

So whether he continues to beat Hamilton or finishes TENTH until the end of the season, we have been there and done that AND we have a whole giant wardrobe of t-shirts. We will remain the same and no dream or nightmare will affect us.

Jenson supporters, like Jense himself, have been forged into Rudyard Kipling.

No auld chappe - you understand nothing about what it means to be a supporter of Jenson Button. Absolutely nothing at all :s mokin:

[Saint Devote]

To be honest he didn't beat Alonso. He pushed him out of track.

Did he or did he not finish ahead of Alonso?

He beat him as did Massa, HIS teammate.

NB: you would have hated Dijon-Prenois 1979.

[Mia 01]

Congrats Jenson for a very well deserved win today!

How come that MacLaren fans in general is a little bit sad today. It´s like their worst enemie won today.

[F1boat]

Congrats Jenson for a very well deserved win today!

How come that MacLaren fans in general is a little bit sad today. It´s like their worst enemie won today.

This shows that they are fans of Lewis and not the team IMO.

[Mia 01]

This shows that they are fans of Lewis and not the team IMO.

Agreed.

I´m not so sure Martin Whitmarsh is one of Lewis biggest fans any longer.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Great Race.I rarely jump on this board, but I have seen Jensen take his lumps and I am a fan of the guy and he outsmarted the opposition. Anytime you are smarter than the competition, it is a great thing. Button doesn't always display flat out speed, but in this world of f1 where tire management is everything, smart drivers will win...

[Valve Bounce]

But this is a really SURPISING, thoughtful and pleasant thread. Last week I had decided to leave the forum because of all the unpleasantness but this thread does change my mind.

.

Valve :bounce: bangs his head on the table, now banging it on the wall, heads for door and bangs head on door. :eek: :(

[PSfan]

You know once the "hangover" is over, then Button's fans will realize this win wasn't all that great...

Once they remember that Button started the race in 4th compared to Lewis Hamilton's 11th and notice how quickly it took Hamilton (on equal tires) to pass Button, and realize even with his aggressive start, Hamilton preserved his Intermediate tires better that this race just proves how big the performance gap from Hamilton to Button truly is...

Have a nice day... :p :

[Saint Devote]

Congrats Jenson for a very well deserved win today!

How come that MacLaren fans in general is a little bit sad today. It´s like their worst enemie won today.

I am speculating but - hardcore Mclaren fans think like Ron Dennis and to the fans Lewis is Mclaren, just as Mika and Ayrton were. Whitmarsh and Button are pretenders to the throne. Remember Jenson is Martin Whitmarsh's first driver signing since he became team manager and Whitmarsh had the cheek to mention that he did so because he reckons the two drivers will be strong at different times at different circuits.

He had the audacity to think that Lewis has weaknesses.

In the team picture with the trophies celebrating Jenson's win, noticeably Hamilton is absent from the picture. Sulking?

Although after Hamilton's public outburst blaming Mclaren he should feel too embarassed to join them.

At the Brawn-Ilien V8 team, Rubens and Jense were always in the pictures.

Seems like Jenson tends to bring out emotional outbursts by his teammates :D

[Saint Devote]

You know once the "hangover" is over, then Button's fans will realize this win wasn't all that great...

Once they remember that Button started the race in 4th compared to Lewis Hamilton's 11th and notice how quickly it took Hamilton (on equal tires) to pass Button, and realize even with his aggressive start, Hamilton preserved his Intermediate tires better that this race just proves how big the performance gap from Hamilton to Button truly is...

Have a nice day... :p :

Really? When will we do that? Waiting......... [tapping foot now] .........

Jenson started fourth and that was the dirty side of the track and there was horrible wheelspin - Webber was also affected by wheelspin at the start.

Then as he explained the car was not handling well on the inters.

On lap SIX he noticed the rear tyres were beginning to wear and he was struggling for grip. This led him to conclude that it was time for slicks.

As he also said, it's not just about speed, it's about making the right calls, being consistent and conserving the car.

[Saint Devote]

Nice words from Hamilton. Well said Lewis :-] and thank you.

Lewis:
This was probably one of the drives of my life. Okay, it's possible that the decision to make a second tyre stop wasn't the right one, but my team are a brilliant bunch of guys and they usually get it spot-on. I guess things can't always pan out right every time, but that's motor racing. It was disappointing to taken out by Mark Webber, but I hear he apologised for it after the race so I appreciate that. I'm happy with the job I did – I drove my heart out today and the car felt good.

Could Jenson and I have had a one-two today? Maybe, yes, but you can't say for sure. One thing I can say for sure, though, is that he drove a great race. Congratulations to him for an excellent first win for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes – it's a good feeling! As for me, I'll just keep fighting. It's the only way I know.

[PSfan]

Really? When will we do that? Waiting......... [tapping foot now] .........

Well, obviously it will be depend on the individual, it may only sink in 1.2 way through this season, so I would suggest you foot will be very tired when it does.

But when it does, please remember its only racing and don't get to depressed about it... :p :


Jenson started fourth and that was the dirty side of the track and there was horrible wheelspin - Webber was also affected by wheelspin at the start.

Um, a wet start on inters, and Button and Webbers wheel spin was because they where on the dirty line?!?! Still doesn't explain the performance difference between Button and Hamilton in the first 5 or 6 laps, but whatever helps you sleep at night...


Then as he explained the car was not handling well on the inters.

Hamilton seemed to be fine on the inters...


On lap SIX he noticed the rear tyres were beginning to wear and he was struggling for grip. This led him to conclude that it was time for slicks.

Considering Button felt a need to change his inters after only 6 laps seems contradictory to the theory that he is particularly gentle on his tires.

What it looks like to me is despite the weather prediction still calling for rain within 10-15 mins Button choose to gamble on slicks to save face from being passed by Lewis in only 5 laps of the race... Button got a pay-off when the rain never came...

[F1boat]

I am speculating but - hardcore Mclaren fans think like Ron Dennis and to the fans Lewis is Mclaren, just as Mika and Ayrton were. Whitmarsh and Button are pretenders to the throne. Remember Jenson is Martin Whitmarsh's first driver signing since he became team manager and Whitmarsh had the cheek to mention that he did so because he reckons the two drivers will be strong at different times at different circuits.

He had the audacity to think that Lewis has weaknesses.

In the team picture with the trophies celebrating Jenson's win, noticeably Hamilton is absent from the picture. Sulking?

Although after Hamilton's public outburst blaming Mclaren he should feel too embarassed to join them.

At the Brawn-Ilien V8 team, Rubens and Jense were always in the pictures.

Seems like Jenson tends to bring out emotional outbursts by his teammates :D

Yeah, JV also had spectacular announcements during 2005 :)

[F1boat]

Still today Lewis bitched even more, according to PF1. Hopefully he will regain his composure. In my opinion it is not cool to badmouth your team like Lewis did in Monte Carlo 2005 or like Barrichello did in Germany last year. It is really immature. One of the things Kimi never did is complaining about the team.

[Mia 01]

On the subject Lewis and Jenson.

Some interesting reading from James Allen

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/mclaren-two-sides-of-a-victory/

[Valve Bounce]

On the subject Lewis and Jenson.

Some interesting reading from James Allen

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/03/mclaren-two-sides-of-a-victory/

I cannot fault that argument. :up:

[F1boat]

Yeah, great article. I love the way James writes about F1.

[AndyL]

You know once the "hangover" is over, then Button's fans will realize this win wasn't all that great...

Once they remember that Button started the race in 4th compared to Lewis Hamilton's 11th and notice how quickly it took Hamilton (on equal tires) to pass Button, and realize even with his aggressive start, Hamilton preserved his Intermediate tires better that this race just proves how big the performance gap from Hamilton to Button truly is...

Have a nice day... :p :

You did notice that Button was involved in an accident not of his own making at the first corner, didn't you?

[Retro Formula 1]

like Lewis did in Monte Carlo 2005

???

Were you referring to the time Lewis was a rookie and upset at the team telling him not to challenge Alonso?

As for Jenson, he drove a great race today even though he suffered a setback when Alonso turned into him. Good for him and nice to see he is a bit more competitive than many of the so called "experts" claimed.

[Garry Walker]

Well, obviously it will be depend on the individual, it may only sink in 1.2 way through this season, so I would suggest you foot will be very tired when it does.

But when it does, please remember its only racing and don't get to depressed about it... :p :



Um, a wet start on inters, and Button and Webbers wheel spin was because they where on the dirty line?!?! Still doesn't explain the performance difference between Button and Hamilton in the first 5 or 6 laps, but whatever helps you sleep at night...



Hamilton seemed to be fine on the inters...



Considering Button felt a need to change his inters after only 6 laps seems contradictory to the theory that he is particularly gentle on his tires.

What it looks like to me is despite the weather prediction still calling for rain within 10-15 mins Button choose to gamble on slicks to save face from being passed by Lewis in only 5 laps of the race... Button got a pay-off when the rain never came...
All good points, lets see if St.devote will reply to any of those

[Saint Devote]

Well, obviously it will be depend on the individual, it may only sink in 1.2 way through this season, so I would suggest you foot will be very tired when it does.
But when it does, please remember its only racing and don't get to depressed about it... :p :

m, a wet start on inters, and Button and Webbers wheel spin was because they where on the dirty line?!?! Still doesn't explain the performance difference between Button and Hamilton in the first 5 or 6 laps, but whatever helps you sleep at night...
Hamilton seemed to be fine on the inters...
Considering Button felt a need to change his inters after only 6 laps seems contradictory to the theory that he is particularly gentle on his tires.
What it looks like to me is despite the weather prediction still calling for rain within 10-15 mins Button choose to gamble on slicks to save face from being passed by Lewis in only 5 laps of the race... Button got a pay-off when the rain never came...

How many times should I state that Jenson Button supporters dont get depressed.

We went through years when Jense had to drive dreadful cars. He has disproved all the doubters and on Sunday he did what all the Jenson resenters said prior to the season was impossible.

So now he drives for Mclaren - whats to be depressed about? We know he always does his best and whether he wins as on Sunday in a superb display or whether he finishes as he did at Sakhir, we are happy.

Yes - the dirty line away from the racing line. Have you ever been to racing driving school? To what level? I recommend Winfield at Magny Cours.

So Lewis was quicker and overtaking people. Jenson's car was not handlng as well and he decided that slicks would go better as track conditions were changing. He outqualified Lewis - so what?

The point is that Jenson is ultra sensitive and requires his car to be in his "zone". Ay Sakhir during qualifying, in Q3 Jenson reported that the car suddenly "felt funny" - Lewis noticed nothing. Mclaren looked into it and they discovered that at that point when the car changed, the wind direction changed 90 degrees and it affected Button. Thats the way it is - its nature.

As to your last comment - whatever! You will always find a reason to attack Button.

The important part is that he made the correct decision and won. Michael Schumacher won many races that way - races that Ross Brawn always says he really should not have won given the car.

The quickest driver does not mean he will win the race. The quickest car is no guarantee it will last the race distance.

And as F1 returns to more cerebral form of grand prix racing this year, a driver like Jenson can do well.

I do not have a Lewis versus Jenson fixation - its people like yourself that finds it neccessary. Whatever makes you sleep at night babe!!

[Saint Devote]

You did notice that Button was involved in an accident not of his own making at the first corner, didn't you?

There is no point in pointing out the obvious to these people. They hate Jenson Button and view F1 as if it were a soccer match. The nuances are Swiss air to them.

[Retro Formula 1]

We all have opinion about drivers and prefer some over others.

I just find it incredible that people who supposedly enjoy motorsport can find criticism of Jenson at the weekend.

He drove a superb race and if he had a little luck, it was luck that he made.

I appreciate that St Devotes adoration can be quite nauseating but Jenson was the doggies whatsits this weekend and should be applauded as such.

[Sonic]

We all have opinion about drivers and prefer some over others.

I just find it incredible that people who supposedly enjoy motorsport can find criticism of Jenson at the weekend.

He drove a superb race and if he had a little luck, it was luck that he made.

I appreciate that St Devotes adoration can be quite nauseating but Jenson was the doggies whatsits this weekend and should be applauded as such.

Here, here!

[F1boat]

To me the admiration of Devote is preferable to hate stuff :)

[pino]

He drove a superb race and if he had a little luck, it was luck that he made.



:up:

[wedge]

A great win? Arguable but certainly a great drive and possibly Button's best drive ever.

Button said afterwards that the win felt special and it was.

Button created something from nothing, rolled the dice and made the gamble pay off.


Well, obviously it will be depend on the individual, it may only sink in 1.2 way through this season, so I would suggest you foot will be very tired when it does.

But when it does, please remember its only racing and don't get to depressed about it... :p :



Um, a wet start on inters, and Button and Webbers wheel spin was because they where on the dirty line?!?! Still doesn't explain the performance difference between Button and Hamilton in the first 5 or 6 laps, but whatever helps you sleep at night...



Hamilton seemed to be fine on the inters...



Considering Button felt a need to change his inters after only 6 laps seems contradictory to the theory that he is particularly gentle on his tires.

What it looks like to me is despite the weather prediction still calling for rain within 10-15 mins Button choose to gamble on slicks to save face from being passed by Lewis in only 5 laps of the race... Button got a pay-off when the rain never came...

Never knew you could score points mid race. Remind me how a win is awarded?

Remember Schumi's first win? He span off and if he wasn't behind Brundle he probably wouldn't have chosen to pit earlier than him.

Button deserves the limelight on this occasion but I don't think he can sustain those sort of top drives consistently.

[Valve Bounce]

I appreciate that St Devotes adoration can be quite nauseating but Jenson was the doggies whatsits this weekend and should be applauded as such.

What?? You mind running that past me again, please?

I've looked all over Benny, and I can't find the part that I would liken to Bunsen.

[AndyL]

The point is that Jenson is ultra sensitive and requires his car to be in his "zone". Ay Sakhir during qualifying, in Q3 Jenson reported that the car suddenly "felt funny" - Lewis noticed nothing. Mclaren looked into it and they discovered that at that point when the car changed, the wind direction changed 90 degrees and it affected Button. Thats the way it is - its nature.

I had been wondering what the problem was that Button referred to in interview after that qualifying, interesting that it turned out to be the wind direction.

[wedge]

I had been wondering what the problem was that Button referred to in interview after that qualifying, interesting that it turned out to be the wind direction.

Not just wind direction. He wasn't comfortable in the bumpy section. That was where Hamilton was beating him. The two things made it worse.

[Wasted Talent]

Considering Button felt a need to change his inters after only 6 laps seems contradictory to the theory that he is particularly gentle on his tires.

What it looks like to me is despite the weather prediction still calling for rain within 10-15 mins Button choose to gamble on slicks to save face from being passed by Lewis in only 5 laps of the race... Button got a pay-off when the rain never came...

Not that simple, PS. We don't know the reason why Jenson was having problems on intermediates - maybe he was that smooth that he wasn't getting enough heat into them....

Also don't forget that the cars were set up for dry running and so maybe Jenson's driving style was more affected by this set-up and inters and he thoght that slicks would be a better match.

Whatever, he proved many of his critics wrong, and hopefully he will carry on winning this season

WT

[PSfan]

How many times should I state that Jenson Button supporters dont get depressed.

We went through years when Jense had to drive dreadful cars. He has disproved all the doubters and on Sunday he did what all the Jenson resenters said prior to the season was impossible.

So now he drives for Mclaren - whats to be depressed about? We know he always does his best and whether he wins as on Sunday in a superb display or whether he finishes as he did at Sakhir, we are happy.[/QUOTE]

ok ok, so you don't get drepressed

You just leave the forum claiming "unpleasantness" after Button's team-mate finishes 4 positions higher in a race...


Yes - the dirty line away from the racing line. Have you ever been to racing driving school? To what level? I recommend Winfield at Magny Cours.

Oh Please sir, explain how the dirty line on a wet race track offers less grip then the clean line at the start of a race again... this ain't ever getting old... :cheese:


So Lewis was quicker and overtaking people. Jenson's car was not handlng as well and he decided that slicks would go better as track conditions were changing. He outqualified Lewis - so what?

re-read the title of this thread... a "Great" win for Button wouldn't include doubt that his team-mate is still way faster...

At the end of the day, it looked like a driver with 3 years experience in F1 came to a better setup then one with 10 years experience

At the end of the day there is doubt that Button's ace in the hole "Tire Management" isn't just a myth...


The point is that Jenson is ultra sensitive and requires his car to be in his "zone". Ay Sakhir during qualifying, in Q3 Jenson reported that the car suddenly "felt funny" - Lewis noticed nothing. Mclaren looked into it and they discovered that at that point when the car changed, the wind direction changed 90 degrees and it affected Button. Thats the way it is - its nature.

Just great, so next time Button is driving slow, we won't know if its because he is conserving his tires or the wind changed direction...


As to your last comment - whatever! You will always find a reason to attack Button.

The important part is that he made the correct decision and won. Michael Schumacher won many races that way - races that Ross Brawn always says he really should not have won given the car.

correct decision? it was a desperate move that just happened to fall in his direction. lets through him a parade because he burnt out his inters in what 2 or 3 laps of racing?!?


The quickest driver does not mean he will win the race. The quickest car is no guarantee it will last the race distance.

Thanks for that little bit of philosophy, they teach you that at Winfield?


And as F1 returns to more cerebral form of grand prix racing this year, a driver like Jenson can do well.

Jenson can do well? that didn't sound very convincing, guess your just preparing yourself for more 7th or worse finishes this year...


I do not have a Lewis versus Jenson fixation - its people like yourself that finds it neccessary. Whatever makes you sleep at night babe!!

Babe?!? Angie is that you? To be honest the "tapping the foot" post gave me the worst mental image of the "evil" face my ex made when I came home late from hanging with the guys... But it would serve me right to have her hound me on the msg boards, and be a Button fan would just make sense, she had bad taste in everything (she was even a Montreal Canadian's fan lol )

[PSfan]

You did notice that Button was involved in an accident not of his own making at the first corner, didn't you?There is no point in pointing out the obvious to these people. They hate Jenson Button and view F1 as if it were a soccer match. The nuances are Swiss air to them.

I guess it would be equally pointless to point out Alonso was 1/2 a car ahead at the corner (ergo it was his corner and Button should have yielded)

Also as some pointed out that Button was probably in Alonso's blind spot meaning Button could see Alonso while Alonso couldn't see Button, so common sense would also dictate Button lifting and cuing in behind Alonso for the corner.

Though can some of you "Button" experts explain to me Jenson's need to cuddle up tight to Alonso on the opening straight just prior to their little get together in the corner... I mean Button had what should have been a good wet "inters" friendly line going into the first corner, but instead decided to get up so close to Alonso that I almost yelled at my TV "come on, get a room if your gonna be like that"

To which at this point I have another theory as to why Alonso didn't see Button at the first corner: During the straight up to the first corner Alonso looked in his mirror and saw nothing but Button... Their eyes caught, and Button blew Alonso a kiss, at that moment either Alonso's mirror smashed, or he nearly barfed in his helmet and avoided looking in that mirror for a time for fear that Button might still be there...

[ioan]

At the end of the day there is doubt that Button's ace in the hole "Tire Management" isn't just a myth...

The tire management story might even be true, but it's only down to his slowness.

[ioan]

Not that simple, PS.

Really? Are you going to claim that Button is the best weatherman around or what?!

Exactly when he decided to go for slicks, cause he was abysmal on intermediates, the RBR team was telling their drivers that the weather prognosis is for light rain for 10-15 minutes.

Button got lucky, good for him, you can even make him a statue, who cares? Just don't expect everyone to be as sentimental and subjective as the button bandwagon people.

[ioan]

What?? You mind running that past me again, please?

I've looked all over Benny, and I can't find the part that I would liken to Bunsen.

:rotflmao: :up:

[ioan]

I've seen a couple of posts criticizing Button for this incident, but when I look at the onboard I feel Button was not the person at fault.

Onboard is the worst view you can use to make a judgement. Watch the overhead shot and you'll see exactly what was happening.

[ioan]

If only Button had that perspective at the time eh? :p

Other than a helmet cam this is the closest we have to what Button could see at the time. Looking at the overhead shot of the incident, I reckon it proves neither driver was at fault also. Opinions are going to differ no doubt, and for once its nice to discuss a race incident where Lewis isn't being lynched for a change. This is just down to too many cars trying to squeeze through turn 1 and someone having to lose out. It could have quite easily wrecked Jenson's race too.... :)

Given that we don't have a helmet cam and that we can't turn the screen to see what Button saw when he turned his head, the overhead shot is the best we get.

[PSfan]

A great win? Arguable but certainly a great drive and possibly Button's best drive ever.

Button said afterwards that the win felt special and it was.



And there in lies my point, in the grand scale of F1 racing this is not a great win. I also thought about including some clarification to the effect that it may not be a great win, it was still a great result, but even that is contradictory to my point that despite the win, this race showed an even greater performance gap between himself and Lewis then I thought of before.

Now however, if you come at this from the perspective that this was perhaps his best drive ever, which it might just be, then its really a sad statement as well. What we seen could have been pulled off by probably 15 of the current drivers, perhaps all of them if they where in Button's position. His pitting for slicks despite forecasts calling for more rain, and then basically taking it easy once he had Kubica as a buffer really shows no real skill, so it almost baffles the mind it being described as "great"

On the other hand,if I where a Button fanatic, perhaps this race could have been described as his greatest win ever... also incredibly sad to think about, but considering his first win was in similar circumstances, and then the DD influence last year, this may very well be as good as it gets...




Button created something from nothing, rolled the dice and made the gamble pay off.


This is something I disagree with because once again you are giving Button a lot more credit then deserved. Once switched to slicks, Button was at the mercy of the racing gods: Had it rained he would have been screwed, had his rivals choose to take the safe bet and only switch 1/2 there drivers to slicks then Jenson would have been worse off. Had Red Bull brought Webber in with the pack or before Vettel then its my opinion I would have been trying to figure out how to tarnish Webbers first win on home soil instead... Way to many factors out of Buttons control to imply "he did it"

[PSfan]

Not that simple, PS. We don't know the reason why Jenson was having problems on intermediates - maybe he was that smooth that he wasn't getting enough heat into them....

Also don't forget that the cars were set up for dry running and so maybe Jenson's driving style was more affected by this set-up and inters and he thoght that slicks would be a better match.

Whatever, he proved many of his critics wrong, and hopefully he will carry on winning this season

WT

The 5live guys mentioned they caught a Button radio transmission where Button claimed his inters where done/finished/destroyed (I don't recall the exact word, but something to the effect) and also was asking if anybody had switched to slicks yet (once again, not sure the exact phrasing but that was the gist of it)

Since it was the first time I listened to the 5live crew instead of watching the bbc tv crew, I'm not sure how credible they are, but wasn't willing on questioning Davidson's credibility as a race commentator at this time. :p :

As for proving his critics wrong, had this truly been a "great" win then he would have, and of course I wouldn't have had much to say on the subject, but here we are...

[PSfan]

I've seen a couple of posts criticizing Button for this incident, but when I look at the onboard I feel Button was not the person at fault. I still think it is down to the blind spot in Alonso's mirrors and even Alonso himself had had issue with it after the race.


As Ioan has already mention, the overhead gives a much better perspective of it, and watching from the start all the way to the first corner is almost the only way to truly appreciate the lengths Button took to be in Alonso's blind spot.

Though if you do want to put it down to an F1 cars blind spot as being a major factor, then Button should be fully aware of it, and did nothing to avoid that particular spot, as I said, Button could see Alonso so what was Button's excuse?

[wedge]

This is something I disagree with because once again you are giving Button a lot more credit then deserved. Once switched to slicks, Button was at the mercy of the racing gods: Had it rained he would have been screwed, had his rivals choose to take the safe bet and only switch 1/2 there drivers to slicks then Jenson would have been worse off. Had Red Bull brought Webber in with the pack or before Vettel then its my opinion I would have been trying to figure out how to tarnish Webbers first win on home soil instead... Way to many factors out of Buttons control to imply "he did it"

Should've, could've, would've

Someone stupidly said if is F1 spelt backwards

[wedge]

and then basically taking it easy once he had Kubica as a buffer really shows no real skill

And taking advantage of the situation to nurse the tyres is a bad thing?

[Valve Bounce]

If only Button had that perspective at the time eh? :p

Other than a helmet cam this is the closest we have to what Button could see at the time. Looking at the overhead shot of the incident, I reckon it proves neither driver was at fault also. Opinions are going to differ no doubt, and for once its nice to discuss a race incident where Lewis isn't being lynched for a change. This is just down to too many cars trying to squeeze through turn 1 and someone having to lose out. It could have quite easily wrecked Jenson's race too.... :) I had a quick look at the overhead shot, and it seemed to me that Alonso came over and squeezed into Bunsen. I didn't see where Bunsen could have gone or done to avoid the coming together. It is also possible that Bunsen may have flat spotted his tyre during this, although this is pure conjecture.

The way I saw it, Bunsen took a gamble with the tyre change and although it looked like it was way too premature, it paid off.

Whichever way you look at it, the gamble paid off and the guy won. That's the bottom line, irrespective of who qualified faster or drove faster or tried harder - Bunsen won. So! I posted this thread : it was a great win. By the way, did you guys like the celebration link I gave? :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Should've, could've, would've

Someone stupidly said if is F1 spelt backwards

Hey!! you don't wanna call Murray "Stupid"

[Saint Devote]

I have never seen Autosport write such praise unless it was for Lewis Hamilton. For me, this ranks with Jenson's great performance during the Monte Carlo weekend which led Ross Brawn to remark that is was like being with Schumacher.

This is an extract from the article in Autosport written by Johnathan Noble:

Standing outside the grass in front of the McLaren team office was an emotional John Button – his faced etched with a grin that had become common place so many times throughout 2009 when he wore his trademark pink shirt.

As he wallowed in the moment, the door to McLaren opened and out walked Jackie Stewart – who made a bee-line for Button Sr. After an emotional hug between the two men, Stewart looked up at Button and said: "John, that was a drive that Jimmy Clark and I would have been proud of…"

He was totally right. Just a fortnight after the critics had written off Button as much as F1 itself, the reigning world champion hit back with a drive of sheer brilliance.

Bridgestone chiefs were surprised on Sunday night that Button had been able to make the option tyre last so long. In fact, when he took the tyres on there was no guarantee that the rubber was going to last any more than 30 laps – and if the degradation had been severe, then that genius call to dries would have been for nothing.

.....made the right call, drove at the right speed, stayed out of trouble, looked after his tyres when he needed to (even changing the set-up to be kinder to his rear tyres), and then pushed when he had to.

And that is why Jackie Stewart was spot on. Well done Jenson.

[Saint Devote]

If only Button had that perspective at the time eh? :p

Other than a helmet cam this is the closest we have to what Button could see at the time. Looking at the overhead shot of the incident, I reckon it proves neither driver was at fault also. Opinions are going to differ no doubt, and for once its nice to discuss a race incident where Lewis isn't being lynched for a change. This is just down to too many cars trying to squeeze through turn 1 and someone having to lose out. It could have quite easily wrecked Jenson's race too.... :)

Nico Rosberg only recently said that the mirrors in F1 are useless and the driver, because of the high sides has very limited peripheral vision.

So while it was Alonso who hit Jenson, it must be consiered a racing incident.

In addition, anyone that has driven a FF as reasonable speed or an F3 car similarly, will be able to testify that the images in the mirror VIBRATE like a cell phone on a table top.

I am amazed that there are not even more collisions. I think it is testimony to the mental ability that these drivers have that they are usually acutely aware of the immediate situation.

[ArrowsFA1]

Nico Rosberg only recently said that the mirrors in F1 are useless and the driver, because of the high sides has very limited peripheral vision.
This was predicted at the time the higher cockpit sides were introduced and there were a number of incidents attributed, partly, to reduced vision as a result. Add to that the out-board mirrors and a drivers' ability to see what is around him has been reduced considerably.

[wedge]

As Ioan has already mention, the overhead gives a much better perspective of it, and watching from the start all the way to the first corner is almost the only way to truly appreciate the lengths Button took to be in Alonso's blind spot.

Though if you do want to put it down to an F1 cars blind spot as being a major factor, then Button should be fully aware of it, and did nothing to avoid that particular spot, as I said, Button could see Alonso so what was Button's excuse?

Racing incident.

They were wheel to wheel and Alonso braked marginally later.

Re-watch it from Button's perspective.

[Valve Bounce]

Racing incident.

They were wheel to wheel and Alonso braked marginally later.

Re-watch it from Button's perspective.

Why bother? Bunsen won the race, fair and square. If you have any doubts, then check out the link in my lead post.

[wedge]

Why bother? Bunsen won the race, fair and square.

Some people would rather visit a parallel dimension and wished they stayed there than see Bunsen win a race fair and square.

[Valve Bounce]

Some people would rather visit a parallel dimension and wished they stayed there than see Bunsen win a race fair and square.

Most of them want to find an excuse why their favorite driver didn't win. And if their favorite driver never looked like winning, then they're looking for some excuse why Bunsen fluked his win. It's all part of the game here.

Here's mine: if Mark Webber had come in on the same lap that Bunsen did, and then had driven carefully afterward, maybe he would have won. Who knows?? :rolleyes:

[PSfan]

Racing incident.

They were wheel to wheel and Alonso braked marginally later.

Re-watch it from Button's perspective.

I have seen from both views, and while I hate repeating myself the overhead is the much better perspective to see what is actually going on...

For example Alonso was ahead the whole time, not wheel to wheel like the onboard (which btw isn't exactly buttons perspective but about a foot higher then buttons view...) The whole straight Alonso had minimum his full front wing ahead... So technically it was in fact Alonso's corner...

[wedge]

I have seen from both views, and while I hate repeating myself the overhead is the much better perspective to see what is actually going on...

For example Alonso was ahead the whole time, not wheel to wheel like the onboard (which btw isn't exactly buttons perspective but about a foot higher then buttons view...) The whole straight Alonso had minimum his full front wing ahead... So technically it was in fact Alonso's corner...

Marginally ahead. It wasn't as if Button's front wing was adjacent to Alonso's LR wheel before they touched brakes.

[Mia 01]

It looks like Jenson will get one moore up this weekend.

This was predicted at the time the higher cockpit sides were introduced and there were a number of incidents attributed, partly, to reduced vision as a result. Add to that the out-board mirrors and a drivers' ability to see what is around him has been reduced considerably.

But at least they aren't dead.

[Retro Formula 1]

I can't see how Button is getting blamed for this one. He was well up the inside and had track position.

I accept that the silly aero mirrors on the Ferrari are useless but that's hardly Buttons fault.

I think even Brundle said Button was 100% blameless or something similar.

Perhaps if people pretended the cars were reversed, we might get a more objective opinion?

[PSfan]

Racing incident.

They were wheel to wheel and Alonso braked marginally later.

Re-watch it from Button's perspective.

Just re-watched it a few times from Button's onboard

And btw, that's a Shell decal, not Alonso's wheel... :cheese:

[Valve Bounce]

I can't see how Button is getting blamed for this one. He was well up the inside and had track position.

I accept that the silly aero mirrors on the Ferrari are useless but that's hardly Buttons fault.

I think even Brundle said Button was 100% blameless or something similar.

Perhaps if people pretended the cars were reversed, we might get a more objective opinion?

Well, Yes! there was!! Bunsen could have driven off the track onto the grass, lose all traction, then T-bone Alonso on the way through, like one of the Porsche racers did in their race. Now THAT would have been fun. :eek:

"Speaking to AUTOSPORT, Hamashima said that both Hamilton and Mark Webber – who also stopped for a second set – needed to make stops while the cars ahead of them did not.

"Concerning Webber and Hamilton – their first dry tyres were almost worn out," he said following post-race analysis of their rubber. "They had to do a two-stop."

Hamashima has also revealed that Jenson Button's decision to push on through the race with a single set almost backfired because his tyres were nearly totally worn out when he took the chequered flag.

"Jenson's tread was almost finished," he explained. "It was a very, very dangerous situation for him."

Hamashima reckons that Fernando Alonso was actually the man who did the best job with the tyres – with the rubber on his Ferrari in brilliant shape at the end of the race,

"Fernando Alonso – fantastic! His taking care of tyres was tremendous. Great. Fernando was still looking very good."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82635

[F1boat]

"Speaking to AUTOSPORT, Hamashima said that both Hamilton and Mark Webber – who also stopped for a second set – needed to make stops while the cars ahead of them did not.

"Concerning Webber and Hamilton – their first dry tyres were almost worn out," he said following post-race analysis of their rubber. "They had to do a two-stop."

Hamashima has also revealed that Jenson Button's decision to push on through the race with a single set almost backfired because his tyres were nearly totally worn out when he took the chequered flag.

"Jenson's tread was almost finished," he explained. "It was a very, very dangerous situation for him."

Hamashima reckons that Fernando Alonso was actually the man who did the best job with the tyres – with the rubber on his Ferrari in brilliant shape at the end of the race,

"Fernando Alonso – fantastic! His taking care of tyres was tremendous. Great. Fernando was still looking very good."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82635

I was to quote that. Very interesting observations. Interesting to see also whether the Button bashers who quoted Hamashima as gospel will quote him now or will find other excuses.

[Retro Formula 1]

I notice that piece as well. Makes interesting reading.

Not too sure I agree with the exact wording here because Hamashima makes it sound like Alonso has driven in a way that was complimentary to his tyres where Button, Hamilton and Massa did not.

What it says to me is that The Ferrari is much easier on his tyres compared to the McLaren and out of the teams, Button and Alonso were easier on theirs than their team mates. Thi sis because Hamiltons were shot on much less laps than Button ran and he pointedly remarked that Alonso's were in good condition instead of Massa's.

If we look at the actual race, then Button looked to have an easier time on his rubber where Alonso had to work harder and attack / defend a lot more.

What it does mean is McLaren NEED to address their tyre issues and also why Massa struggles on occassions to get heat in his boots.

[Valve Bounce]

In the final analysis: Bunsen won
You wanna talk tyres, maybe the also rans did better. So what!

[F1boat]

The Ferrari is much easier on his tyres compared to the McLaren

This shows how special was Button in Oz.

[ioan]

I was to quote that. Very interesting observations. Interesting to see also whether the Button bashers who quoted Hamashima as gospel will quote him now or will find other excuses.


"Concerning Webber and Hamilton – their first dry tyres were almost worn out,"



"Jenson's tread was almost finished," he explained. "It was a very, very dangerous situation for him."


So, how do you compare the two?!
Who's to say that Hamilton and Webber's tires wouldn't have been in the 'tread was almost finished' situation at the end?

Who's to say that Buton's tires weren't 'almost worn out' at the time Hamilton and Webber pitted? There is no way to prove either way.

It's not easy to base an argument on quotes where 'almost' is the key word.

[Valve Bounce]

So, how do you compare the two?!
Who's to say that Hamilton and Webber's tires wouldn't have been in the 'tread was almost finished' situation at the end?

Who's to say that Buton's tires weren't 'almost worn out' at the time Hamilton and Webber pitted? There is no way to prove either way.

It's not easy to base an argument on quotes where 'almost' is the key word.

You're almost 100% correct! :p :

[F1boat]

You're almost 100% correct! :p :

The best answer. It is pointless to argue with a hater. If almost finished mid-race is the middle of the race is same as almost finished in the end according to someone, I don't know what to say. Or I know, but I know that children may visit the board as well.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm just funning - time to sit back and have a laugh and then enjoy tomorrow's rain.

[F1boat]

Imagine how funnier it would be for McLaren and Ferrari if it is dry and for once the Red Bulls enjoy a trouble free race. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

So it transpires that Button was indeed given a 3 lap window by his engineer in which to choose to come in for dry tyres. Jenson chose to come in immediately on that lap what was a good call by him, but wasn't the 100% Jenson call that James Allen hyped it up to be. The team had decided it was a good time to try dry tyres as Jenson was falling back, so they gave him the option. I'm kind of disappointed.. :(

The magic words were: Bunsen chose to come in immediately on that lap. That took balls to make that call, he did, and he won!

Whadaya got to be sad about?

[Valve Bounce]

Indeed, but it was portrayed as though Jenson had categorically stated he wanted to come in for dry tyres when in fact it was decided by the team he was coming in within those 3 laps. Button made the call to come in immediately which was great, but I can't help but feel the media and indeed Whitmarsh, made it out to be pure genius on Jenson's part. The team had a little more to do with it than James Allen made out in his blog and the British papers claimed. I supose without sensationalism, it wouldn't have sold papers. I feel a little cheated squire. :p

Well, if any of the other drivers elected to come in during that 3 lap window, then maybe you've got a point. But nobody else jumped through the window on that lap - Bunsen did, and he won. You feel cheated that he took the chance and won? Take the Saint for a walk and buy him an ice cream - that will make you feel better.

[wedge]

Henners, its not just showing initiative but also making the strategy work.

Button was willing to play the 'guinea pig'. He went off on his out lap and then proved everybody wrong by setting purple sectors.

[Valve Bounce]

I make it quite clear which part I feel cheated by. It isn't the foresight on Button's part, but the people who have made the decision out to be more in Jenson's court than it actually was. The British media and "Jenson's Barmy Army" to be precise.. :p

:)

Well, there's very little we can do about that lot. You can't just go out and shoot them; you will be reported to the RSPCA :(

[Valve Bounce]

Button was willing to play the 'guinea pig'. He went off on his out lap ..................

.................much to the derision of the two BBC commentators who opined that Bunsen had stuffed up.

[wedge]

I didn't realise I was arguing against that? Surely you can see my point? I make it quite clear in my last post.. :)

Yes you are.

I never said Button was a master tactician but it was a great call. If Button didn't come in first then someone else would and then Button would've missed his boat and gone backwards even more.


.................much to the derision of the two BBC commentators who opined that Bunsen had stuffed up.

I think everyone thought Bunsen was on a suicide mission - even bum chum Ant thought so too.

[wedge]

For reference:

Then there is no reason to feel 'cheated' by Button's intelligence just because his engineer gave him something to think about.

[ioan]

Henners, its not just showing initiative but also making the strategy work.

Button was willing to play the 'guinea pig'. He went off on his out lap and then proved everybody wrong by setting purple sectors.

Who did he prove wrong?
And what did he have to lose when he was driving like crap on intermediates?

Would he have been so brave had he been leading the race by a couple of seconds but losing time very fast to 2nd placed? I doubt it.

Anyway, good to see the 'smart' button myth busted.

[wedge]

My 'cheated' comment was more a joke aimed at the media for portraying it as a 100% Jenson decision. Jenson did what all drivers do once in a while and made a good call which paid off. My main annoyance was with people who disagreed with me when I supplied an instance of where Lewis had made a similar decision. I was effectively told that difference was that Button had decided his strategy and not been prompted, when in fact he was prompted, he just decided when to come on in that instance.

Sorry to be anal but why didn't you post this in the Prost/Senna thread?

[wedge]

Who did he prove wrong?
And what did he have to lose when he was driving like crap on intermediates?

Would he have been so brave had he been leading the race by a couple of seconds but losing time very fast to 2nd placed? I doubt it.

Says the man who praised Nick Heidfeld's tactical switch to wets at the end of the 2008 Belgium GP.

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129296

[Valve Bounce]

I should have done yes. When I started this debate I thought the original discussion had indeed been on this thread. My Bad. This is still relevent to Button's win however. :)

Well, Yeah! You did check out the celebratory link in the OP didn't you?

[ioan]

Says the man who praised Nick Heidfeld's tactical switch to wets at the end of the 2008 Belgium GP.

http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129296

And?!

[Valve Bounce]

And?!

........and I can't remember whether Nick won or not! :( :confused:

[Firstgear]

To come in for a switch after the way he was getting waxed on the inters is the move of a desperate man, not the move of a great tactician. If he knew the condition of the track well enough to make the switch to drys based on the feel of the track, he wouldn't of spun (and been the only one to spin). So I put it down as a lucky win.
With the years of experience that Button has, and the car he has underneath him, he should have never put himself into the kind of position where he had to rely on such a desperate gamble.

If it was a Lotus or Virgin, I would say great win (or podium), because in their situation, a gamble like that is the only chance they have to get this kind of result.

[Valve Bounce]

To come in for a switch after the way he was getting waxed on the inters is the move of a desperate man, not the move of a great tactician. If he knew the condition of the track well enough to make the switch to drys based on the feel of the track, he wouldn't of spun (and been the only one to spin). So I put it down as a lucky win.
With the years of experience that Button has, and the car he has underneath him, he should have never put himself into the kind of position where he had to rely on such a desperate gamble.

If it was a Lotus or Virgin, I would say great win (or podium), because in their situation, a gamble like that is the only chance they have to get this kind of result.

Well! at least we can acknowledge this as a different perspective; not that I agree with any of it.

[ioan]

To come in for a switch after the way he was getting waxed on the inters is the move of a desperate man, not the move of a great tactician. If he knew the condition of the track well enough to make the switch to drys based on the feel of the track, he wouldn't of spun (and been the only one to spin). So I put it down as a lucky win.

You're brave to post the obvious truth just like that, now get ready for the wrath of the bandwagoneers! ;)

[wedge]

And?!

He improved his position because of it


You're brave to post the obvious truth just like that, now get ready for the wrath of the bandwagoneers! ;)

He went off and proved the doubters wrong by setting purple sectors. THe rest is history :D