Win on Sunday sell on Monday

[Brown, Jon Brow]

IS it true?

Are you more likely to show interest in a certain make of car if they are successful at motorsport? I don't see any reason why anyone would by a Subaru Impreza if it wasn't for the WRC (partly because it wouldn't exist). But does it really work for manufacturers such as Renault and Mercedes?

I still think the heritage of Jaguars 1950's Le Mans wins is in the blood of their cars. What they did on the track in the 50's was put on the road in the 60's and the 60's Jaguars are the benchmark for any new Jaguar.

[Macd]

Yes. It's the same as any advertising. My dad recently got a Citroën c2 because he liked the look of the r2 car.

[tannat]

The degree of separation from racing exploits to sales for some marques is too great, I believe.

I doubt if recent racing achievements have had any influence on the sales of A-Martins, M-Benz, Bentley...


In the case of Ferrari and Porsche-it certainly helped establish them.

Perhaps it gives them more validity (i.e. Audi at Le Mans)

Or in the case of M Benz it helps that they are head to head with marketplace competition (or at least were, with BMW). You can insert Honda and Toyota in this sentence as well.

As an aside-depsite the fact that I am a fan of Mitsubishis rally program, I couldn't recently bring myself to purchasing one due to the horrible reputation of their cars here in the US...

[tannat]

IS it true?


I still think the heritage of Jaguars 1950's Le Mans wins is in the blood of their cars. What they did on the track in the 50's was put on the road in the 60's and the 60's Jaguars are the benchmark for any new Jaguar.


Related note: I personally do not think Jag's current GT2 entry in the ALMS is going to benefit their sales at all



Jag is a different company today than what it was in the gloy daysd of the 50's...

[Jag_Warrior]

IS it true?

Are you more likely to show interest in a certain make of car if they are successful at motorsport? I don't see any reason why anyone would by a Subaru Impreza if it wasn't for the WRC (partly because it wouldn't exist). But does it really work for manufacturers such as Renault and Mercedes?

I still think the heritage of Jaguars 1950's Le Mans wins is in the blood of their cars. What they did on the track in the 50's was put on the road in the 60's and the 60's Jaguars are the benchmark for any new Jaguar.

Interesting that you mention two marques that I'm a fan of (Jaguar and Subaru). I'm not sure if the "win on Sunday/sell on Monday" mantra is as applicable today as it was years ago. I think buyers are somewhat more sophisticated, if not jaded, now than before. But especially for people who see cars as something more than just basic transportation, I do think it still applies to some degree. I actually couldn't see myself buying a (high performance) car that didn't have some sort of motorsports heritage.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Interesting that you mention two marques that I'm a fan of (Jaguar and Subaru). I'm not sure if the "win on Sunday/sell on Monday" mantra is as applicable today as it was years ago. I think buyers are somewhat more sophisticated, if not jaded, now than before. But especially for people who see cars as something more than just basic transportation, I do think it still applies to some degree. I actually couldn't see myself buying a (high performance) car that didn't have some sort of motorsports heritage.

The with Jaguar is that British Leyland ruined their reputation they had gained in the 50/60's. At the start of the 1980's Jaguar sales were pitiful. Is wasn't until the mid 80's that they picked up again. It was at this time they had their successful touring car and sportscar programmes with TWR. Were they related?

[BDunnell]

I don't think there is any hard and fast 'yes/no' answer to this question. There are certainly manufacturers who have put down increased sales to motorsport involvement, generally in those categories in which roadgoing models are used. I recall Mazda saying that Xedos 6 sales increased directly the model started being raced in the British Touring Car Championship; likewise, I believe Subaru have said the same for the Impreza as a result of rallying. And, even without any figures, one cannot argue against the way in which motorsport has shaped the very existence of companies such as Lotus and Ferrari.

But the ways in which the motorsport world has changed have had an effect too. By that I mean the end of the homologation special such as the BMW M3 or Sierra Cosworth. I doubt we'll ever see their like again.

[BDunnell]

The with Jaguar is that British Leyland ruined their reputation they had gained in the 50/60's. At the start of the 1980's Jaguar sales were pitiful. Is wasn't until the mid 80's that they picked up again. It was at this time they had their successful touring car and sportscar programmes with TWR. Were they related?

How many people, really, would have known about those successful programmes? I'd suggest not enough to have much of a tangible effect on car sales and manufacturer reputation.

[tannat]

All of the above being said I'd personally love to see Jaguar back in the top rung at Le Mans.....

[MrJan]

Obviously the Impreza and the Evo have a direct correlation and probably many others too. I would argue that it is less relevant today because the rallying and BTCC cars share less in common with the road version than previously.

I sometimes wonder if F1 teams can really see the benefit but people are stupid so I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Bloggs actually thinks that his Renault Clio is linked to Kubica's car.

[Malbec]

IS it true?

Are you more likely to show interest in a certain make of car if they are successful at motorsport? I don't see any reason why anyone would by a Subaru Impreza if it wasn't for the WRC (partly because it wouldn't exist). But does it really work for manufacturers such as Renault and Mercedes?

I still think the heritage of Jaguars 1950's Le Mans wins is in the blood of their cars. What they did on the track in the 50's was put on the road in the 60's and the 60's Jaguars are the benchmark for any new Jaguar.

I think it all depends on the situation.

WRC used to be popular with companies with 'workmanlike' brands like Ford, Citroen, Skoda, Subaru and Mitubishi. Before Ecclestone took their TV rights over back in the 90s WRC TV rights used to be cheap as chips and the car companies could use any footage from any rally for free. End result was that in third world countries TV companies used to show WRC regularly to fill up TV time cheaply. Car dealers could use WRC footage for free to show how robust their products were (ok you know there's a difference between the rally car and the road car but the average punter doesn't). Back in the 80s and early 90s rally success often did end up raising sales. You could argue that some of Subaru's most popular products like the Forester wouldn't have been as popular had people not heard of the company first through rallying.

Not so sure about F1 though. Toyota believes that its F1 project was worth its weight in gold because while it raced its sales in Europe and South America shot up and the average age of buyers went down. That said, you could also say that thats because Toyota now offers much more attractive cars than it did ten years ago.

Was it worth it for BMW or Mercedes? Don't know. Has it hurt VW that it refuses for the most part to get involved in expensive motorsports? No. Is Nissan handicapped in the US by its lack of involvement in IRL/NASCAR? No.

It all depends on what type of cars you have and who you're selling to IMO.

[Malbec]

I sometimes wonder if F1 teams can really see the benefit but people are stupid so I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Bloggs actually thinks that his Renault Clio is linked to Kubica's car.

There have been some pretty interesting F1 related studies done in the past.

One was by Honda in 2006 after Jenson won in Hungary, they wanted to see how many Brits (a traditionally F1-aware population) they had reached with that success.

Only about a third of Brits questioned knew he'd won a race and of them about half thought he drove for Williams. Very few associated his name with Honda even though he'd been driving for them for most of his F1 career at that stage, and thats despite all the scandals and problems that had involved both Honda and Jenson that had reached the national news.....

Michelin once did a study ages ago before they entered F1 where they asked the French what they thought about the company starting to race again. About 60% said they thought Michelin were already in F1 and doing a fantastic job....

[veeten]

All of the above being said I'd personally love to see Jaguar back in the top rung at Le Mans.....

That will only happen when another independent team will use their powertrains to build a chassis around, in the same way that Group 44 or TWR did back in the 80's. In the same way that presently Aston Martin has done with Prodrive, it will have to be done for Jaguar, and not just the GT enterprise with Gentilossi.

[Mark in Oshawa]

For the most part, Win on Sunday, well on Monday is bunk. Why? Look at NASCAR. The most dominent make in the last 5 years in NASCAR is Chevrolet, yet GM has been on the edge of going under, and has lost their sales lead to Toyota. The counterargument that Toyota's getting involved in NASCAR coincided with this growth to be the number one carmaker in North American, but the simple reality is they build a more reliable and consistent product and the marketplace was recognizing that. Maybe this will change in light of the last 6 month's, but it just goes to show the public's perception of a car make can be influenced by a racing program, but a bad product will always kill sales no matter what.

I think racing can build awareness if done properly, but Chevrolet has made a lot of noise about winning in NASCAR, and yet the people most likely to buy a Chevy Implala really don't give a rat's behind about racing.......

It is a tenous theory but thank god someone believes it for I know it keeps a lot of carmakers involved in the sport I love.

[BDunnell]

There have been some pretty interesting F1 related studies done in the past.

One was by Honda in 2006 after Jenson won in Hungary, they wanted to see how many Brits (a traditionally F1-aware population) they had reached with that success.

Only about a third of Brits questioned knew he'd won a race and of them about half thought he drove for Williams. Very few associated his name with Honda even though he'd been driving for them for most of his F1 career at that stage, and thats despite all the scandals and problems that had involved both Honda and Jenson that had reached the national news.....

Michelin once did a study ages ago before they entered F1 where they asked the French what they thought about the company starting to race again. About 60% said they thought Michelin were already in F1 and doing a fantastic job....

Thereby proving, as if proof were needed, that motorsport is a minority interest and that we should not be surprised if it's treated as such — nor if manufacturers decide it's not worth being involved.