FIA solicits bids for reserve F1 team (What a joke)

[CNR]

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/03/23/fia-solicits-bids-reserve-f-team/


An extra Formula One team will be selected as a standby for the next two world championships in case there is an unexpected vacancy on the grid at the start of the season.
The sport's ruling body FIA said Friday it "may also identify one or more possible reserve entrants to fill such vacancies" during a new selection process that is being launched.

who would spend millions with no guarantee of a grid slot

if they do this i think they should allow who ever the team is to use a customer cars for the first year

[N. Jones]

I think their selection process should be more thorough after the failure of USF1 and almost-Campos, but no one is perfect. We can't always choose correctly.

[Valve Bounce]

There are strong rumors that a new team, featuring star driver Bunsen will be entered by a chap called St Something or Other. However, the identity of the driver has not been confirmed as negotiations are also ongoing with Fernando Alonso. :p :

[I am evil Homer]

Why not just let Prodrive run the McLaren as they wanted to!! FIA should just make its mind up

[SGWilko]

FIA should just make its mind up

It cannot.

It used to be indecisive under Spanky, with Todt at the helm now, it just isn't sure anymore!

[Sonic]

Ahhh what a load of cr@p!

Its bad enough that SGP spent money on a team that never got to race but to officially create a backup team is madness. I can't think of a single other sport where this would happen. It would be like seeing Portsmouth be relegated from the English Premier league but instead of being allowed to take part in the champioship, being left in limbo as a premierreserve, having to keep on staff, players etc without hope of financial return.

Jesus FIA - get a grip!

[V12]

Sigh - they messed things up last time and I'm pretty sure that it'll be similar a year later

Sonic - your football analogy doesn't work as if the FIA ran the Premier League there would be no promotion and relegation - the clubs would be subject to a "selection process" consisting of all sorts of vague and non-transparent criteria.

[ArrowsFA1]

This whole process got me thinking about how drivers get into F1. Essentially they work their way through the ranks - karting>F/Renault>GP2> as an example - and along the way they have to earn a "superlicence" issued by the FIA. Without this they cannot compete in F1.

Why can't a similar process exist for the teams? Bernie wants to see professional outfits in F1, and not the likes of Andrea Moda, so put in place a process that ensures any team wanting to enter F1 has achieved a certain standard of results elsewhere in racing, or in the traditional F1 "feeder" series such as F3 or GP2.

This would formalise the possibility for F3 and GP2 teams, for example, to progress into F1 if they wanted to, and might strengthen those same series with new teams coming in who want to progress to F1 eventually.

Apply this to the recent "bid" process and both Virgin (Manor Motorsport in F3) and HRT (Campos Racing in F3/GP2) would have earned a superlicence. Neither Lotus nor USF1 would have done.

[V12]

This whole process got me thinking about how drivers get into F1. Essentially they work their way through the ranks - karting>F/Renault>GP2> as an example - and along the way they have to earn a "superlicence" issued by the FIA. Without this they cannot compete in F1.

Why can't a similar process exist for the teams? Bernie wants to see professional outfits in F1, and not the likes of Andrea Moda, so put in place a process that ensures any team wanting to enter F1 has achieved a certain standard of results elsewhere in racing, or in the traditional F1 "feeder" series such as F3 or GP2.

This would formalise the possibility for F3 and GP2 teams, for example, to progress into F1 if they wanted to, and might strengthen those same series with new teams coming in who want to progress to F1 eventually.

Apply this to the recent "bid" process and both Virgin (Manor Motorsport in F3) and HRT (Campos Racing in F3/GP2) would have earned a superlicence. Neither Lotus nor USF1 would have done.

I like the spirit of that idea - although of course it's not without it's flaws since I think few would argue that Lotus are probably the best, or at worst joint-best (with Manor/Virgin) of the new teams.

The problem is that GP2 is a spec series, and while yes even F2 and open F3000 were still largely customer car based, you could still have a Toleman or Minardi building their own F2 cars and arguably being better prepared for F1 when they got there (evidenced by the fact that they are still around in Renault and Toro Rosso guise). "Lotus" entering a pair of Dallara-Renaults in GP2 to gain an F1 superlicence is just too bad to contemplate and would generate far more controversy than has been generated by their use of the name in the F1 effort - witness the "Lotus-Cosworth" badged Dallara-Honda IRL entry. Of course Lotus DO have a rich history in multi-make F2, F3 and FJunior.

Your idea could definitely be workable but it would need to be coupled with a radical change in emphasis of the junior formula ladder, from being largely aimed at the development of drivers, to being aimed at not just that, but also the development of teams, constructors, designers, engineers, the full works, in other words going back to being the "mini-F1" that it was in the days of original Formula 2, Formula Junior and pre-war voiturette racing. Formula 3 wouldn't need much changing in all honesty, short of able and sustained competition for Dallara that of course is out of the rule-makers hands since F3 is still officially multi-make.

Having said that I do agree with the point I think you were trying to make - F1 could do much worse than the likes of ART, Arden (which is kind of half-in with Horner and Red Bull admittedly), Racing Engineering, DAMS or Super Nova, although none would be a guaranteed success ("success" here meaning making the grid!) either. DAMS tried and failed in the mid 90s when they were arguably more of a second-tier powerhouse than they are now.

[maximilian]

This just once again illustrates that the "franchise" system is utter crap! Open slots, reserve slots, wtf! Design and start building a car with the HOPE of getting a reserve slot? Why bother? After what happened with SGP, who arguably HAD a car ready to race and didn't get the slot, who could ever take such a risk?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: scrap the idiotic "franchise" system, and let them qualify! It's like that in every other racing series in the world!

[V12]

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer an open system where new entrants come in and sink or swim, so to speak, on their own sporting merits on Saturday afternoon (and on Friday morning if we pass 15 teams!). I think any true F1 fan would prefer that.

But if that doesn't happen then at the very least, some sort of transparent system involving feeder categories would be far better than what we have now, with the huge proviso I outlined in my last post of course.

Then again maybe that's just the part of me that wants a proper Formula 2 in place of what we have now.

[K-Pu]

Crazy idea, no one will develop a reserve team and then leave it to rot because no other team has fallen off the grid.

Now that´s squandered resources at top-level.

[nigelred5]

Not to say a team can't start from scratch, but IMHO any new F1 team should have a history in a lesser formula. If they are a start up operation, they need to show they can maintain sponsorship, actually have a working race shop, and run a team for a full season. I was optimisic F1 would at least make the field, but attempting a 100% start up F1 operation in the time frame they had was an unbelievable undertaking

[Valve Bounce]

This is similar to brainstorming, where a certain end result is required and people come up with twenty ideas. Then you take the two best ideas, and two worst ideas, and see if you can develop something out of them.

Bernie has been coming up with, on the surface, silly ideas like medals for the first three places, knowing it will not be implemented.

But he is waiting for someone to come up with a viable alternative which he will then push.

Bernie is not rich simply by being stupid. He is probably one of the smartest guys around F1.

[Easy Drifter]

No problem.
My new team will be ready.
I have two famous drivers signed.
A.N. Other and T.B.A.
Just a few minor details to be arranged.
A shop.
Employees.
Equipment.
Engine and gearbox.
Money.
I have hired the absolute best people to start a new team.
Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson.
With those two what could possibly go wrong?

[Sonic]

No problem.
My new team will be ready.
I have two famous drivers signed.
A.N. Other and T.B.A.
Just a few minor details to be arranged.
A shop.
Employees.
Equipment.
Engine and gearbox.
Money.
I have hired the absolute best people to start a new team.
Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson.
With those two what could possibly go wrong?

LOL! :D

My other thought, is that in this "cost cutting" era, getting a team to spend millions of dollars on a car that mey never race is utter madness.

The only viable solution is a free for all.

[Valve Bounce]

LOL! :D

My other thought, is that in this "cost cutting" era, getting a team to spend millions of dollars on a car that mey never race is utter madness.

The only viable solution is a free for all.

Unless, of course, Bernie stumps up the cash and manages the new team!! :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

What I'd like to see, and I accept it'll probably never happen, is for F1 to emulate the football league. You'd have F1 as the equivalent of the Premiership, GP2 as the Championship, and GP3 or whatever it's called this month as the entry series.

Any team could join GP3, but they'd have to graduate to GP2 and be successful in that before they were allowed into F1. You'd have promotion and relegation just as you do with football, with maybe the top and bottom 2 teams in each league moving.

I understand there are millions of reasons this won't happen (imagine for example telling Toro Rosso that they're relegated to GP2 after they spent all that money!), but I can dream.

At least under "my" system you'd be forced to prove you're a serious and credible outfit before you could enter F1.

[SGWilko]

What I'd like to see, and I accept it'll probably never happen, is for F1 to emulate the football league. You'd have F1 as the equivalent of the Premiership, GP2 as the Championship, and GP3 or whatever it's called this month as the entry series.

Any team could join GP3, but they'd have to graduate to GP2 and be successful in that before they were allowed into F1. You'd have promotion and relegation just as you do with football, with maybe the top and bottom 2 teams in each league moving.

I understand there are millions of reasons this won't happen (imagine for example telling Toro Rosso that they're relegated to GP2 after they spent all that money!), but I can dream.

At least under "my" system you'd be forced to prove you're a serious and credible outfit before you could enter F1.

Take that a little further. Remember the Turbo v Non turbo era?

Why not have a two tier F1? ALl race at the same time, but earn less points?

[Dave B]

Take that a little further. Remember the Turbo v Non turbo era?

Why not have a two tier F1? ALl race at the same time, but earn less points?
Oooh no, the difference in lap times and the need for some 40-50 cars over my three leagues would make that... interesting. I'm not sure any circuit has a medical centre quite big enough.

[SGWilko]

Oooh no, the difference in lap times and the need for some 40-50 cars over my three leagues would make that... interesting. I'm not sure any circuit has a medical centre quite big enough.

What I meant was, rather than relagate a current F1 team to a different series, have them 'downgraded' to a second tier part of F1, if you get my drift???

[Valve Bounce]

What I meant was, rather than relagate a current F1 team to a different series, have them 'downgraded' to a second tier part of F1, if you get my drift???

That would work really well if you put the second tier teams at the front of the grid.

[V12]

Promotion/relegation would only really work if you had some sort of commonality in the technical regulations between series, and in all honesty you'd need to allow both customer F1 cars, AND self-built GP2 and GP3 cars. It's certainly unworkable if say Virgin or Lotus had to ditch their own chassis they have invested in for a GP2 Dallara, and likewise the GP2 champions would not necessarily have the means to build their own F1 car by the start of the next season, particularly as their "promotion" would likely not be confirmed until late in the season.

All said I do really like the idea of using the feeder series to develop along teams as well as drivers, but while they remain spec series where what the team can actually do is limited to basically hiring drivers and prepping the cars, they aren't much use in that regard, and a rigid inflexible promotion/relegation system is likely to be unworkable, unless GP2/F2 and GP3/F3 regulations were basically set for detuned F1 cars.

[Dave B]

Oh yes, in my slightly flawed vision of F1/2/3, I'd have the same cars throughout. You could artificially limit the lower formulae, the simplest way would be a rev-limiter, but the cars would be transferrable between leagues.

[Valve Bounce]

Oh yes, in my slightly flawed vision of F1/2/3, I'd have the same cars throughout. You could artificially limit the lower formulae, the simplest way would be a rev-limiter, but the cars would be transferrable between leagues.

I see you've been talking to Bernie again! :p :

[SGWilko]

I see you've been talking to Bernie again! :p :

Please, you are not awarding medals as well are you?

[jens]

League system in motorsports would work only if all leagues had the same technical rules, because it would be painful for a winning F2/GP2 team to start designing an F1 car from scratch, which would likely see them relegated back to GP2 a season later. However, if GP2 had F1 rules, I am not sure we have enough competitive outfits to make it a viable second tier series, so it would be better to try to accommodate all of those teams with F1 cars into one series. I doubt we would get more than 15 teams with actually long-term participation potential.