Each of these seats cost £350.000,- in WRC. Why?

[pentti]

The price difference between Citroen WRC( to buy £500,000,-)and C4 rallycross car(to buy less than £ 150,00,-)is about £350,000,-. The main difference is one more seat. How can one seat cost £350.000,- Why is this this? Info is from Hansen. It looks some body is making a lot of money. I would not do it. I like too much of our sport.

[DonJippo]

Why is this this?

Don't know but why not buy a rallycross C4 for £150000 and then a seat, I can sell mine for 350€, Sparco Evo that is... :bandit:

[White Sauron]

I think one seat is far from being a real difference between those cars. Just note: C4 rallycross car was used one year before C4WRC appered in WRC, and that one year involved, I believe, lots of work on technology, reliabilty, power, handling, suspension, etc... J350,000 in summ.

[Magnus]

As I recall it hansen had the possibility of buying an old C4 rallycar, and then rebuilding it on his own. Might be wrong there though.
However: there ought to be quite a lot of differencies between the cars, not least since the competition is much tougher in rallying. How many times have Kenneth been european champ til now? +10 something... The competition itself, and the big money involved, also calls for the rallycar manu to do a more thorough job than on tha RC.
Naturally you also have the issue of output: the output of the RC is much greater, what you lack in refinement when it comes to chassis adjustment and dynamics you can, in part, make up for with more hp.

IMHO

[SubaruNorway]

I always tought that Rallycross was the NASCAR version of rallying

[A.F.F.]

I always tought that Rallycross was the NASCAR version of rallying


:down:

[Erki]

I always tought that Rallycross was the NASCAR version of rallying

You mean that there's a lot of competition? :)

[SubaruNorway]

No! on the mecanical side as Rallycross cars use simpler transmission don't now about engine, but the parts don't have to last that long.

I hate NASCAR by the way

[Erki]

They use simpler tech and that doesn't last long? :confused: Now that must be some real bad tech then...

I love NASCAR by the way ;)

[SubaruNorway]

I think your head is going round in circels Erki :D

[jidoka]

I hate NASCAR by the way

Why???

[pentti]

At the moment it's rather disapointing that none of this answewrs are really explaining this huge diffefence of the prices.

[Lousada]

Take a look in the regulations yourself.
http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1456243218__AppJ_2004_Art_279.pdf

It begins with the regs for Rallycross than Autocross. From page 14 it's the 2007 regs including the new 2L-RWD class. Also note the difference between Division 1a and Super1600. Another couple of thousands difference between those two for simply an extra seat.
Still Rallycross is more expensive than it should and could be, but that's motorsports nowadays I suppose.

[N.O.T]

Maybe because rallycross cars don't need to be serviced that regularly, also they are manufactured to last less and absorb less punishment, plus you don't need that many electronics to provide telemetry data....

[BDunnell]

I would have thought that there's also a premium placed on buying a WRC car given the more prestigious nature of the championship in which they run.

[RALLY TEAM GB]

No! on the mecanical side as Rallycross cars use simpler transmission don't now about engine, but the parts don't have to last that long.

I hate NASCAR by the way

i wont say i hate nascar...i cant stand it..no point going roumd in a circle 200+ times..

ive never really got into rallycross myself...not sure why either

[SubaruNorway]

Ok i don't fancy wathing it, altough i do admit i tune in once i a while to see if there is any crashes going on.

[Iskald]

At the moment it's rather disapointing that none of this answewrs are really explaining this huge diffefence of the prices.

I think that one of the main reason for differences is that the rallycross regulations allows more freedom re. engine, transmission and suspension. The rallycross Supercars are generally more simpler versions of the WRC-cars, and
some of the materials used are definitely cheaper. The cars are built by privateer and semiprofessional teams and the costs for development and engineering are much less than for WRC-cars. Rallycross cars use well known and tested components, often off-the-shelf parts, while WRC-teams develop and construct their own parts.

It would be exactly the same if you allowed privateer teams into Formula 1 (which btw is a big discussion nowadays), and these teams were allowed to buy readily constructed chassis, engines, transmission and other parts without having to develop and construct them. It goes without saying that if you must construct your own car from the bottom, it will be much more expensive.

[Koppomsbo]

As I recall it hansen had the possibility of buying an old C4 rallycar, and then rebuilding it on his own. Might be wrong there though.


IMHO

Yes, Hansen has always got new body shells and parts directly from Citroen Sport. And they used him a lot as a reference when they builded the Xsara Wr.

[JAM]

I think the difference is technology and the market. The rallycross cars are much simpler than WRC cars, when you want to win you put big effort on hp of the engine, in WRC to win you need to work a lot in a lot of areas.

The majoritty of rallycross cars come from WRC cars, with modifications.

This in part shows as the WRC is so expensive with no need to that. But ok. Ralycross is helthy because manufacturers are out. Citroen supported Hansen a lot of years and he had during many years the best car on the grid.

Another thing, a Rallycross cars only need to handle 7 minutes races. During a week end a rallycross cars has a average 10x5 mins of race. Lets see, 5 turns on pratice, 3 qualificatin heats, and 1 final (or 2 or 3...). A rallycar sometimes needs to support 30 minutes stages. The WRC cars need to last more each time they run.

[finnway]

Gearbox and suspension is the main differece. Everything else is pretty much the same.
There are some small difference in materials in bodyshell.
rc is also ~200kg lighter. are they using gold as ballast weight in wrc :)

In the end it's supply and demand that sets the price tag.

[cut the b.s.]

In the end it's supply and demand that sets the price tag.

This would suggest that WRC car builders are making loads of money from sales of cars, if this were the case we would have more teams, rallycross cars are basically big power and low tech in a WRC shell.

Pentti, what is the reason in your opinion? I'm sure you have more insight here than most of us!

[pentti]

Gearbox and suspension is the main differece. Everything else is pretty much the same.
There are some small difference in materials in bodyshell.
rc is also ~200kg lighter. are they using gold as ballast weight in wrc :)

In the end it's supply and demand that sets the price tag.Finally some body is thinking my way.Right or wrong.

[pentti]

This would suggest that WRC car builders are making loads of money from sales of cars, if this were the case we would have more teams, rallycross cars are basically big power and low tech in a WRC shell.

Pentti, what is the reason in your opinion? I'm sure you have more insight here than most of us!My reason is simpel. I just want to find, is where now modern version of high way robbery in rallying?

[A.F.F.]

Hansen do some valuable testing for Citroen now that testing is limited for teams.

[JAM]

My reason is simpel. I just want to find, is where now modern version of high way robbery in rallying?


You're not far from the truth. This business sometimes is strange.

[bt52b]

The price difference between Citroen WRC( to buy £500,000,-)and C4 rallycross car(to buy less than £ 150,00,-)is about £350,000,-. The main difference is one more seat. How can one seat cost £350.000,- Why is this this? Info is from Hansen. It looks some body is making a lot of money. I would not do it. I like too much of our sport.

But what did Hansen get for his money? Surely it wouldn't have the most expensive bits in a WRC, the engine and transmission?

Wouldn't the rallyX car have a more powerful engine with a stronger (cheaper?) transmission?

Perhaps JMC might know the answer as he owns a Xsara WRC rallyX car ;)

Gabriel

[Erki]

Yesterday evening I saw an interesting programme on Viasat Explorer(Swedes probably have this channel). It was about rich guys who are amateur jet fighter pilots. It was said that you can buy a 30-year old* jet fighter for about one million dollars. That's just about as much as the C4 WRC then.

*30 years, yes, but they're still very impressive machinery.

[JAM]

Yesterday evening I saw an interesting programme on Viasat Explorer(Swedes probably have this channel). It was about rich guys who are amateur jet fighter pilots. It was said that you can buy a 30-year old* jet fighter for about one million dollars. That's just about as much as the C4 WRC then.

*30 years, yes, but they're still very impressive machinery.

By one million Euros you buy an Eclipse 500 that is a new very light jet, not a old one, and spend less fuel that the 30 yo jet. Fuel consumption is very important because one of the environmental problems are then planes.

[Lousada]

Perhaps JMC might know the answer as he owns a Xsara WRC rallyX car ;)


There are no WRC's in Rallycross.

[bt52b]

There are no WRC's in Rallycross.

Yes I know that, but its an ex-citroen, ex-hansen, ex-wrc Xsara body shell built by Citroen Sport and Epsilon! :(
http://www.jmcrallysport.com/
http://www.hansen-motorsport.se

[alleskids]

In the development of a WRCar, they also calculate the overhead costs. WRC is big teams, the latest technology, expensive transmission and gearboxes and complicated differantialls (?), a lot of windtunnel tests and the cars must suffer long racing, big impacts, and they must perform on very different kinds of roads (tarmac, gravel, very rough gravel like in Greece).
Rallycross is smal teams, lowtech cars, short distance racing, smooth gravel/tarmac.

[pentti]

In the development of a WRCar, they also calculate the overhead costs. WRC is big teams, the latest technology, expensive transmission and gearboxes and complicated differantialls (?), a lot of windtunnel tests and the cars must suffer long racing, big impacts, and they must perform on very different kinds of roads (tarmac, gravel, very rough gravel like in Greece).
Rallycross is smal teams, lowtech cars, short distance racing, smooth gravel/tarmac.Rallycross have to cope on jumps,cravel and tarmac.
They are lot faster than wrc cars so transmission have to be stronger. Also I don't understand your comment about big team or small team.How does that affect the price of a wrc car? So a small team can build wrc car plus extra seat for £200.000,-.

[SubaruNorway]

I think these pictures says it all

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/941/269447800yo7.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=643485881vm3.jpg

[N.O.T]

Rallycross have to cope on jumps,cravel and tarmac.
They are lot faster than wrc cars so transmission have to be stronger. Also I don't understand your comment about big team or small team.How does that affect the price of a wrc car? So a small team can build wrc car plus extra seat for £200.000,-.

I guess its beacause that extra seat costs 200.000..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Pentii your simplistic way of seeing things is amazing...you must be a happy man....

[pentti]

I guess its beacause that extra seat costs 200.000..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Pentii your simplistic way of seeing things is amazing...you must be a happy man....No.Just very frustrating one.