Ze Germans

[EuroTroll]

A German driver in F1 was a rarity in the 80s. In the 90s, we had the two Schumachers and Frentzen. This year, a quarter of the grid are German. What's more, I'd say that Vettel, Schumacher, Rosberg are championship contenders. Glock and Sutil are top quality drivers. Hülkenberg is a hot prospect. And Heidfeld is waiting on the sideline. Things are looking better than ever for German fans now.

How have they come to this pleasing state of affairs? Why are there six good German drivers on the grid now and, at the same time:
- no Frenchies at all,
- two Italians,
- two Brits?

What are the Germans doing better?

[ShiftingGears]

Without understanding the nuances of German motor racing, my first guess would be companies more willing to invest in German drivers.

I can name at least 10 French drivers from the 70's and 80's who won grands prix which can be attributed to the investment French oil companies made in F1 during that period.

[F1boat]

I wouldn't write off the Brits - there might be only two of them, but they are the most recent champions..

[EuroTroll]

I wouldn't write off the Brits - there might be only two of them, but they are the most recent champions..

That's certainly true, and they're both excellent drivers. But the depth of British field is not very deep, so to speak, in comparison.

[Sonic]

Three words; The Schumacher effect. Without his massive success in the '90's would we have so many Germans on the grid? No IMO.

A decade from now we'll see the Lewis effect. As I write this I'm at a Kart track watching some 6 & 7 year olds take their first step on the ladder and all of them are wearing Lewis caps, replica McLaren race suits etc. I'd wager there'll be a large number of Brits on the grid by 2020.

[F1boat]

Three words; The Schumacher effect. Without his massive success in the '90's would we have so many Germans on the grid? No IMO.

A decade from now we'll see the Lewis effect. As I write this I'm at a Kart track watching some 6 & 7 year olds take their first step on the ladder and all of them are wearing Lewis caps, replica McLaren race suits etc.

No love for Jenson? :(

[Sonic]

No love for Jenson? :(

Not with the youngsters. The teens - some, but generally if Lewis wins on Sunday the phone rings all week long with youngsters looking to emulate their hero. That doesn't happen with Jenson - he doesn't capture the imagination for some reason.

[ioan]

No love for Jenson? :(

Who?

[wedge]

There's nothing special in Germany's waters.

Vettel has been backed by Red Bull

Sutil had Colin Kolles as a solid supporter from Euro F3 into F1.

and Rosberg is errr... German based on birth and yet his father is Finnish!


Without understanding the nuances of German motor racing, my first guess would be companies more willing to invest in German drivers.

I can name at least 10 French drivers from the 70's and 80's who won grands prix which can be attributed to the investment French oil companies made in F1 during that period.

Sauber/Mercedes Benz had its junior programme which gave us the likes of Wendlinger, Schumi and Frentzen.

Now we have the likes of Red Bull who sponsor drivers regardless of place of birth.

Karting was well supported in the 1990s in the UK, most prominently the McLaren/Champions of the Future series. It still is. There are now taster sessions on kart circuits for kids to dip into.

[EuroTroll]

Wedge, your argument seems inconclusive... What is it then?

I'd agree that it's probably a combination of high motivation generally (thanks largely to Schumacher, M) that brings many "applicants" as well as systematic and competent driver development. But who's really doing the developing? Are German lower formula series now superior to British ones?

The fact remains that F1 is now a very global sport where every country would like to have their own participants. And Germany has filled a quarter of the grid with quality drivers. That's amazing, I think.

[DexDexter]

It wasn't that long ago when Germans were hopeless in F1 and half of the field was Italian, yet none of them were any good. Times change....

[EuroTroll]

It wasn't that long ago when Germans were hopeless in F1 and half of the field was Italian, yet none of them were any good. Times change....

Yeah, but all the Germans now are certainly some good.. Times change, sure. But why? There must be method in the madness..

[wedge]

Wedge, your argument seems inconclusive... What is it then?

I'd agree that it's probably a combination of high motivation generally (thanks largely to Schumacher, M) that brings many "applicants" as well as systematic and competent driver development. But who's really doing the developing? Are German lower formula series now superior to British ones?

The fact remains that F1 is now a very global sport where every country would like to have their own participants. And Germany has filled a quarter of the grid with quality drivers. That's amazing, I think.

There are other factors and ifs and buts.

What if Rosberg had Finnish nationality? Kolles come up with someone else (non-German) over Sutil at Spyker or even Kolles chose not to run Sutil in F3?

What has happened to Italy and France's domestic championships?

[DexDexter]

There are other factors and ifs and buts.

What if Rosberg had Finnish nationality? Kolles come up with someone else (non-German) over Sutil at Spyker or even Kolles chose not to run Sutil in F3?

What has happened to Italy and France's domestic championships?

Offtopic but Rosberg HAS Finnish nationality and raced with a Finnish licence until F3. I think one reason (which applies to Finns as well) could be that when there is one very good driver (Schumacher) from a particular country, people are more interested in other drivers from the same country

[wedge]

Offtopic but Rosberg HAS Finnish nationality and raced with a Finnish licence until F3. I think one reason (which applies to Finns as well) could be that when there is one very good driver (Schumacher) from a particular country, people are more interested in other drivers from the same country

If Nico was Finnish then we'd have the same question about Finns!

[EuroTroll]

If Nico was Finnish then we'd have the same question about Finns!

Well, I bet I've visited Finland more times than Nico has... Apart from the genes, he's as German as his team-mate, I'd say.

Of course, another excellent question is what the Finns are doing right. They are really the ultimate masters of punching above their weight in motorsports.

[DexDexter]

Well, I bet I've visited Finland more times than Nico has... Apart from the genes, he's as German as his team-mate, I'd say.

Of course, another excellent question is what the Finns are doing right. They are really the ultimate masters of punching above their weight in motorsports.

Once again, Nico has NEVER lived in Germany, he is from Monaco and speaks English with a very slight French accent. Pretty international guy. By the way, Nico does have quite a lot of family over here. It doesn't matter really, I mean he is driving for himself, not some country....But getting back to the topic, if there is one Mika Häkkinen, people think there are more from where he came from.

[Koz]

if there is one Mika Häkkinen, people think there are more from where he came from.

Kimi most obviously...

As for the brits - DC & Fast Eddie?

[EuroTroll]

Once again, Nico has NEVER lived in Germany, he is from Monaco and speaks English with a very slight French accent. Pretty international guy. By the way, Nico does have quite a lot of family over here. It doesn't matter really, I mean he is driving for himself, not some country....

Isn't German his first language? And he came through German lower formulae. That makes him German in my book, and relevant to this thread. :)

[Dzeidzei]

Isn't German his first language? And he came through German lower formulae. That makes him German in my book, and relevant to this thread. :)

The decision to race under German flag was mostly a commercial one. The German market is bigger so getting sponsorship is easier fi youre labeled German. As Keke´s son Nico is Finnish in my book.

He sure didnt get his racing genes from his mothers side.

And at the end it´ll be easier for Germans to say that Michael was beaten by the next gen of German drivers. Being beaten by another Finn sounds worse, doesnt it?

Doesnt it, DC? :)

[jens]

Well, the interesting thing is that there aren't really many Germans in feeder series! All kinds of GP2's, F2's, etc are filled with Spaniards and Italians instead. But the Germans, who reach those series, are usually very good. To me it tells that the methods of talent-selection in Germany are superior to any other regions and others have a lot to learn. It's not like there are more Germans racing than other nationalities, but they are more efficient at finding the right people.

It also means that there is an advanced and open-minded sponsorship system for young racing drivers, which enables also lesser-funded drivers to show their worth in local series. In many countries only the kids with a rich dad/backer get a proper chance, which tightens the talent pool. Also the system of feeder series in Germany is superior to anyone else. In this millenium Euro F3 has clearly overtaken British F3 as the most competitive F3 series.

Talking about other nations I think the Toyota Young Drivers' programme, which alas hasn't got much attention and is pretty much closed by now, has been a good initiative to improve Japanese motorsport. And with Kobayashi we are maybe likely to start seeing the first fruits of it.