Speaking volumes

[call_me_andrew]

Asked about trying to bring the series to one of his tracks, he replied, "No, sir. No. I'm not interested in Formula One. I don't think that Americans, generally speaking, are interested in it, and I'm certainly not interested. To me, it's kind of like watching paint dry."

http://www.marinij.com/ci_8644472

So if you had been contemplating Speedway Motorsports involvement in a USGP, that ship has sailed. There's still ISC.

[DexDexter]

http://www.marinij.com/ci_8644472

So if you had been contemplating Speedway Motorsports involvement in a USGP, that ship has sailed. There's still ISC.

Honestly, if F1 is watching paint dry then what is the IRL? :rolleyes: Underwater hockey?

[stephenw_us]

It's called the "not invented here" syndrome.

Americans literally scoff at the notion that Formula One is the biggest racing series on the planet...

[Mark]

It's called the "not invented here" syndrome.

Americans literally scoff at the notion that Formula One is the biggest racing series on the planet...

America doesn't need F1, and F1 doesn't need America. Lets just leave it at that!

[Sonic]

America doesn't need F1, and F1 doesn't need America. Lets just leave it at that!

True. But IMHO both would be better off with an Formula One GP in the States.

[Mark]

True. But IMHO both would be better off with an Formula One GP in the States.

Why? America hasn't shown a taste for Formula 1 so why go there? I'd say it damages both sides rather than helps.

[Sonic]

Why? America hasn't shown a taste for Formula 1 so why go there? I'd say it damages both sides rather than helps.

Initially it would help F1 more than visa versa to return to the states - its a huge market, and much as we'd like to pretend otherwise, F1 is a business.

However in the long run it would help both sides; a US GP would make the dream of a United States based F1 team easier to make a reality. With a (proper) American team to cheer on the race would surely gain in popularity.

I think the Danes had the right approach.

They made the mistake of discovering America, but had the good sense to leave it alone.

[Helicon_One]

http://www.marinij.com/ci_8644472

So if you had been contemplating Speedway Motorsports involvement in a USGP, that ship has sailed. There's still ISC.

Speedway Motorsports mostly owns a bunch of ovals, the only road course they have is Infinion, which would need to be torn to shreds and completely rebuilt to get to F1 standards.

I don't think anyone from Formula One is losing any sleep over this 'rejection' by the owner of a few courses that they wouldn't have looked twice at anyway.

[Helicon_One]

Why? America hasn't shown a taste for Formula 1 so why go there? I'd say it damages both sides rather than helps.

I'm not so sure of that, considering that attendance figures for the USGP were several times greater than the numbers that showed up for Turkey or China last year.

[I am evil Homer]

Why? America hasn't shown a taste for Formula 1 so why go there? I'd say it damages both sides rather than helps.

Depends really. Do motorsport fans want to see F1 in the US, quite possibly.

Do manufacturers? Well I bet Toyota gets way more brand air time with NASCAR than it ever did with F1, including the US GP so I doubt they really care.

[Mark]

The manufacturers get exposure in the USA through television anyway, So I doubt it makes much difference to them if they have a USGP or not.

[call_me_andrew]

Speedway Motorsports mostly owns a bunch of ovals, the only road course they have is Infinion, which would need to be torn to shreds and completely rebuilt to get to F1 standards.

I don't think anyone from Formula One is losing any sleep over this 'rejection' by the owner of a few courses that they wouldn't have looked twice at anyway.

I hadn't given up on rovals.


It's called the "not invented here" syndrome.

Americans literally scoff at the notion that Formula One is the biggest racing series on the planet...

I don't think that's the problem. I think he's examing the prospect's from a buisnessman's point of view.


Steve Page, president of Infineon Raceway, was asked if the rumors were true that the Sonoma, Calif., road course might get a Formula One race. Before he could answer, Smith piped in.

"We're out," Smith said. "We want nothing to do with that today, tomorrow or next year. In a lot of ways, F1 has more problems than NASCAR. A few years back [1989 to 1991] they raced in Phoenix. They had an ostrich race one time and it drew more fans than the F1 race."

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/columns/story?columnist=blount_terry&id=3846438

[Helicon_One]

I hadn't given up on rovals.

Rovals are, by neccessity, a compromise - they rarely make for good race circuits in their own right and really you only go racing at one if you're getting something else out of the deal. In the case of the USGP, going to Indy got venue recognition and historical prestige (everyone's heard of the Indy 500 even if nobody watches it these days) and top class facilities (lots of infield room to build a half-decent F1 circuit, pits and huge existing seating capacity for the fans). Do you think F1 would be prepared to go to a Speedway Motorsports venue like LVMS or Ft Worth (comedy option: Bristol!), bulldoze the existing road course and infrastructure to rebuild, and somehow squeeze a FIA Grade 1 circuit into the infield of a 1.5 miler?

The only other oval venue I can think of with the same international name recognition as Indy and infield room to play with would be maybe Daytona, and trying to make a viable F1 course there without completely wrecking the place would be hilariously problematic.

[N. Jones]

It's called the "not invented here" syndrome.

Americans literally scoff at the notion that Formula One is the biggest racing series on the planet...

This IS a sad state in our country, isn't it? I was talking about F1 to my sister the other day and she said "there isn't one thing American in there, and you watch it why??"
:)

Some people just don't "get it" I suppose....

[ArrowsFA1]

This IS a sad state in our country, isn't it? I was talking about F1 to my sister the other day and she said "there isn't one thing American in there, and you watch it why??"
:)

Some people just don't "get it" I suppose....
Then again, talk about NASCAR or Indycar with many Europeans and you might well get a similar sort of response. Few European drivers take part, and they only drive around in circles anyway. Can't be that hard!

[janneppi]

Then again, talk about NASCAR or Indycar with many Europeans and you might well get a similar sort of response. Few European drivers take part, and they only drive around in circles anyway. Can't be that hard!
They showed Nascar races from last year some time ago, I watched few of them since there was absolutely nothing on tv at that time. :)

The broadcast was butchered the same way as F1 races in the free broadcast here. One hour show that doesn't really tell how things happened. They just cut to when something happened or almost happened.
Boring it was though, until the last ten laps came and they gathered up cars, then sent the crashing into each other for few other safety car starts. :)

I probably wouldn't have watched a single race, if Fat boy from Columbia wasn't there. ;) It was nice to see him do well in some races. Familliar names do help, be they teams or drivers.

[F1boat]

Well, I find F1 to be more interesting than the IRL and NASCAR, and outside the USA it is far more popular. So maybe it's better if F1 focuses more on countries which want and value the races.

[christophulus]

Well, I find F1 to be more interesting than the IRL and NASCAR, and outside the USA it is far more popular. So maybe it's better if F1 focuses more on countries which want and value the races.

Hit the nail on the head there. There's a fine balance between getting exposure for manufacturers (which are declining in number in F1) and actually going where the fans want to watch the racing. If America doesn't want a race, why continue trying to make one happen? It'll just end up like China, Turkey.. big, empty grandstands.

[garyshell]

Well, I find F1 to be more interesting than the IRL and NASCAR, and outside the USA it is far more popular. So maybe it's better if F1 focuses more on countries which want and value the races.


Who said the US doesn't want or value the races? All that was said was that no one in the US is willing to succumb to the extortion that Bernie tries to garner. Of the races currently paying his ridiculous fees and giving up the vast majority of revenue streams (i.e. TV rights, on track signage etc.), which are not backed by some government entity?

It's not that it is "better" if F1 focuses on countries, with the current structure that is the ONLY choice Bernie has.

Gary

[DexDexter]

Who said the US doesn't want or value the races? All that was said was that no one in the US is willing to succumb to the extortion that Bernie tries to garner. Of the races currently paying his ridiculous fees and giving up the vast majority of revenue streams (i.e. TV rights, on track signage etc.), which are not backed by some government entity?

It's not that it is "better" if F1 focuses on countries, with the current structure that is the ONLY choice Bernie has.

Gary

As I've said it before, the thing you call extortion is market economy. Not willing to pay? No race.

[garyshell]

Hit the nail on the head there. There's a fine balance between getting exposure for manufacturers (which are declining in number in F1) and actually going where the fans want to watch the racing. If America doesn't want a race, why continue trying to make one happen? It'll just end up like China, Turkey.. big, empty grandstands.


No it doesn't. It totally MISSES the point that the only reason the races go to China or Turkey is because those GOVERNMENTS want the exposure to show how "cosmopolitan" they have become. It has NOTHING to do with a fan base in either place. The ticket prices are far beyond the means of many, if not most of, the people there. To think this is a market based (i.e. fans buying tickets) decision is naive at best. In the US, the only way an F1 race will ever occur is if it is a market based decision. The government sure as hell has no need for Bernie or his foolishness.

Gary

[garyshell]

As I've said it before, the thing you call extortion is market economy. Not willing to pay? No race.


No it isn't. If it was a market based economy, a race would exist or not exist SOLELY on the promoters ability to make a profit. Show me ANY race added to the F1 schedule in recent memory that has not had to rely on a subsidy from a government. Oh wait, Bernie doesn't market to promoters and fans anymore does he. His market IS governments. How silly of me.

Gary

[truefan72]

It's called the "not invented here" syndrome.

Americans literally scoff at the notion that Formula One is the biggest racing series on the planet...
just like soccer

[truefan72]

Speedway Motorsports mostly owns a bunch of ovals, the only road course they have is Infinion, which would need to be torn to shreds and completely rebuilt to get to F1 standards.

I don't think anyone from Formula One is losing any sleep over this 'rejection' by the owner of a few courses that they wouldn't have looked twice at anyway.

exactly. one opinion by one guy with tracks not suited for F1 and a myopic view of the racing series. He certainly does not represent the views of all Americans and his statements should be taken in context.

It is like the average guy who has no shot at the pretty girl coming out with a preemptive statement of dismissiveness before the invertible rejection

[DexDexter]

No it isn't. If it was a market based economy, a race would exist or not exist SOLELY on the promoters ability to make a profit. Show me ANY race added to the F1 schedule in recent memory that has not had to rely on a subsidy from a government. Oh wait, Bernie doesn't market to promoters and fans anymore does he. His market IS governments. How silly of me.

Gary

So suddenly market based economy takes into consideration who offers the money? :rolleyes:

[truefan72]

Depends really. Do motorsport fans want to see F1 in the US, quite possibly.

Do manufacturers? Well I bet Toyota gets way more brand air time with NASCAR than it ever did with F1, including the US GP so I doubt they really care.

lol not sure that they are enjoying that brand awareness right now. Although in NASCAR the notion of a sticking accelerating gas pedal might seem to be an advantage :)

btw Honda just announced a massive recall

[cali]

just like soccer
Good one! :D
This is a bit OT now, but I've always been wondered why americans call a game "football" when they barely touch the ball by foot during the game :p

Good to have You guys here!

[truefan72]

Good one! :D
This is a bit OT now, but I've always been wondered why americans call a game "football" when they barely touch the ball by foot during the game :p

Good to have You guys here!

I guess handball was taken :|

[Shifter]

Good one! :D
This is a bit OT now, but I've always been wondered why americans call a game "football" when they barely touch the ball by foot during the game :p

Good to have You guys here!

I think that Euro football begat Rugby Football, and by the time we were done adopting it and turning it into American Football we forgot that with our rules the term was ironic.

On subject- one thing that hasn't been mentioned, because of the stuck-up nature of alot of non-race fans in the U.S., along with the hyperpolitic and the vastness of the country any decent, high-use road course is usually many miles from a major metropolitan area. F1 doesn't like that, and that's partly why it stopped coming to the Glen.

[truefan72]

I think that Euro football begat Rugby Football, and by the time we were done adopting it and turning it into American Football we forgot that with our rules the term was ironic.

On subject- one thing that hasn't been mentioned, because of the stuck-up nature of alot of non-race fans in the U.S., along with the hyperpolitic and the vastness of the country any decent, high-use road course is usually many miles from a major metropolitan area. F1 doesn't like that, and that's partly why it stopped coming to the Glen.

and I've said many time that there are only 2 places worthy of having an F1 track built nearby. NYC and Miami/South Beach. Either one would provide the backdrop, glitz and cache for an F1 race. My preference would be a track in Miami. You would get tens of thousands flocking to that area from all over the country, you get a good number of South Americans flying up to that location and you have South Beach with a week of night life and parties surrounding the event.

If it ever happened it would be an instant classic.

[N. Jones]

Then again, talk about NASCAR or Indycar with many Europeans and you might well get a similar sort of response. Few European drivers take part, and they only drive around in circles anyway. Can't be that hard!

That is probably true. Maybe that is the problem - no real "countrymen" for American's to support.

[slorydn1]

There are a great many F1 fans in the US. If there weren't, Speed wouldn't be spending time and money to show the races live and in their entirety, and wouldn't be paying the $$$ for a top notch announce crew to do it. The Pxp guy, Bob Varsha not too many people outside the US/Canada would know, but he is one of the best in the business. His color analysts, Steve Matchett and David Hobbs are known all over the world as a pretty decent team director and driver,respectively, in their day.

I was just getting to the point to where I could think about traveling the 800 miles from where I live to Indy and stay for the better part of a week to catch the USGP when we lost the race...

Therein lies the problem. The shear size of the country. Unlike nascar and Indy car fans, where everyone knows someone nearby who is also a fan, F1 fans are spread all over the country, so matter where the race is held, its not close to a group of fans anywhere.

That said, the year before "Tire-gate" didn't the USGP draw something like 300k people over the course of the weekend?

[call_me_andrew]

I think that Euro football begat Rugby Football, and by the time we were done adopting it and turning it into American Football we forgot that with our rules the term was ironic.

I'm going to take this further off topic and give you a brief history of sports. I started this thread, I can hijack it if I wish!

Association Football ("soccer" being a shorthand form of "association") was first codified under the Cambridge Rules of 1848. One day William Webb Ellis decided the game would be more fun if the players could carry the ball. When the games reached America, they were both refered to as "football". This lead to confusion and the rules of each game played would have to be negotiated before the came could start. At the time, the rules of Rugby were different from today. Scrums (then called scrimmages) were poorly organized and inefficent. An American named Walter Camp decided that scrimmages should be uncontested and obstruction should be legal. After that, Rugby and American Football matured as unique sports.

History lesson over.


Rovals are, by neccessity, a compromise - they rarely make for good race circuits in their own right and really you only go racing at one if you're getting something else out of the deal. In the case of the USGP, going to Indy got venue recognition and historical prestige (everyone's heard of the Indy 500 even if nobody watches it these days) and top class facilities (lots of infield room to build a half-decent F1 circuit, pits and huge existing seating capacity for the fans). Do you think F1 would be prepared to go to a Speedway Motorsports venue like LVMS or Ft Worth (comedy option: Bristol!), bulldoze the existing road course and infrastructure to rebuild, and somehow squeeze a FIA Grade 1 circuit into the infield of a 1.5 miler?

The only other oval venue I can think of with the same international name recognition as Indy and infield room to play with would be maybe Daytona, and trying to make a viable F1 course there without completely wrecking the place would be hilariously problematic.

Yes, I think it would be possible to fit an FIA Grade 1 circuit into a 1.5 mile oval. And after putting some thought into it, Talladega would be an easier sell for roval modifications. Talladega's existing roval has since been abandoned, the Sprint Cup garage could be retrofit as a F1 garage, and there's no lake to build around.

The biggest mistake I keep reading in this thread is that people want Americans to show up at a USGP. The goal is not to get Americans interested in F1, the goal is to get those sweet Euro Dollars into chubby American hands.

[slorydn1]

Yes, I think it would be possible to fit an FIA Grade 1 circuit into a 1.5 mile oval. And after putting some thought into it, Talladega would be an easier sell for roval modifications. Talladega's existing roval has since been abandoned, the Sprint Cup garage could be retrofit as a F1 garage, and there's no lake to build around.

The biggest mistake I keep reading in this thread is that people want Americans to show up at a USGP. The goal is not to get Americans interested in F1, the goal is to get those sweet Euro Dollars into chubby American hands.

The issue with Talladega is that it is LITTERALY in the middle of nowhere. Its in the middle of Nascar Country, yes, but its hard to get to, and that is one of the many reasons why F1 abandoned Watkins Glen years ago. (Never mind that I-20 runs right by it, there's nothing there, the ONLY reason why there is an exit off the Interstate there is because Big Bill France had the presence of mind to PAY the Alabama DOT to build and interchange there back in the 1960's and to use their crew to build the racetrack itself).

So, where are all our well heeled European friends going to stay and spend their money at?????? Where would they stay? During the Nascar races, the Talladega infield becomes the 4th largest city in Alabama for the weekend. But that room would be needed for the road course.

[call_me_andrew]

Good thinking Slorydn1! If the promoter builds a hotel, he can take money Bernie hasn't considered stealing yet.

[slorydn1]

Good thinking Slorydn1! If the promoter builds a hotel, he can take money Bernie hasn't considered stealing yet.

Hotel hell...lets build a huge Vegas style casino hotel with all the trimmings...should only cost us about a half a billion or so to do it up right :up:

[F1boat]

As I've said it before, the thing you call extortion is market economy. Not willing to pay? No race.

I agree. :)

[cali]

I guess handball was taken :|


I think that Euro football begat Rugby Football, and by the time we were done adopting it and turning it into American Football we forgot that with our rules the term was ironic.

On subject- one thing that hasn't been mentioned, because of the stuck-up nature of alot of non-race fans in the U.S., along with the hyperpolitic and the vastness of the country any decent, high-use road course is usually many miles from a major metropolitan area. F1 doesn't like that, and that's partly why it stopped coming to the Glen.

OK, thanks! :p