Overpriced cars

[Mark]

I bought my Fiesta in November 2008 and paid a base price (i.e. before dealer discounts) of £14,400 for it.

Looking at the same car with the same spec today it's £16,250! That's nearly £2,000 more!

[Daniel]

I bought my Fiesta in November 2008 and paid a base price (i.e. before dealer discounts) of £14,400 for it.

Looking at the same car with the same spec today it's £16,250! That's nearly £2,000 more!
They will claim that it's all down to the fact that the euro is stronger. IIRC if you look at the graphs the pound is actually worth MORE relative to the euro at the end of 2009 as opposed to the start

http://www.x-rates.com/d/EUR/GBP/hist2009.html

The 500 is quite a funny example of this price gouging.

You've got 3 specs and 3 different engines

The pop spec is the base one and the lounge and sport are the top specs and are both £1400 more expensive than the base model.

The engines are 1.2, 1.3 and a 1.4 petrol. Originally the 1.4 and were the same price as each other (£1400 more than the base 1.2)

Originally the 1.2 pop launched at £7900 back in early 2008 and is now £9300! Fiat recently launched a 1.3 with a bit more power and raised the price a whole thousand pounds!

So back in 2008 you could have got a 1.3 in lounge or sport spec for £10,700 which is not a small amount of money in itself but now the same car with a slightly better engine is £13,100.

If you think that's silly though..... there's the 500c which is the convertible and for an extra 3k Fiat will take a can opener to the roof and put a ragtop on. So you can have a convertible 500c 1.3 for £16,100. We paid £8720 for ours (on scrappage of course) with leather and some bigger/nicer wheels, no effing way is a tractor engined one with the roof cut out worth almost double what we paid for ours :crazy:

One would think/hope that some really significant discounts are on the way

[wedge]

I bought my Fiesta in November 2008 and paid a base price (i.e. before dealer discounts) of £14,400 for it.

Looking at the same car with the same spec today it's £16,250! That's nearly £2,000 more!

It's been like that for about a year. That's what happens when you try to save a car company.

[GridGirl]

I bought my Fiesta in November 2008 and paid a base price (i.e. before dealer discounts) of £14,400 for it.

Looking at the same car with the same spec today it's £16,250! That's nearly £2,000 more!

On the same note I purchased my Fiesta ST three and a half years ago at a base price off less than your £14,400 and with dealer discounts it was less than £12k. Now diesels are more expensive than petrols but mine was the most expensive model. The price increases applied sinse I bought mine are no where near inflationary increases.

The price increases have been going on for some time. One if my audit clients last June had a 1.2 Corsa in the showroom for £12k. I went to see my mum to ask why on earth she would pay that much for her 1.2 Corsa (with a better interior than the one in the showroom). She assured me she hadn't so we specced up her car. Last summer they wanted about £3k more than she paid in 2007.

I was looking to buy a new Alfa Romeo Mito and they want around £17.5k for
a car of similar spec to my ST. I soon changed my mind and to be honest they want too much for an almost new one for me to think about buying second hand. When I compare the price to what I paid for my ST it makes me think that I'll be sticking with my old stripes for the forseeable future. I suppose on the upside my ST's value is higher than I would have expected it to be.

[Mark]

Indeed. £16,200 for Fiesta. I know prices go up but just 5 years ago I would have expected a decently specced Focus for that price.

[Daniel]

On the same note I purchased my Fiesta ST three and a half years ago at a base price off less than your £14,400 and with dealer discounts it was less than £12k. Now diesels are more expensive than petrols but mine was the most expensive model. The price increases applied sinse I bought mine are no where near inflationary increases.

The price increases have been going on for some time. One if my audit clients last June had a 1.2 Corsa in the showroom for £12k. I went to see my mum to ask why on earth she would pay that much for her 1.2 Corsa (with a better interior than the one in the showroom). She assured me she hadn't so we specced up her car. Last summer they wanted about £3k more than she paid in 2007.

I was looking to buy a new Alfa Romeo Mito and they want around £17.5k for
a car of similar spec to my ST. I soon changed my mind and to be honest they want too much for an almost new one for me to think about buying second hand. When I compare the price to what I paid for my ST it makes me think that I'll be sticking with my old stripes for the forseeable future. I suppose on the upside my ST's value is higher than I would have expected it to be.
It's certainly a strange situation. The problem is in the UK that there are always people who are not like yourself and don't really think things over financially and just want a new car regardless of the cost, within reason of course. The manufacturers have wound down their production now and there are no longer vast areas full of unsold cars like there were a year ago so they can name their price now.

[GridGirl]

Indeed. £16,200 for Fiesta. I know prices go up but just 5 years ago I would have expected a decently specced Focus for that price.

Tis true, I would want a lot more car than a Fiesta for £16,200. I'm not sure I want to know how much a Focus costs's these days. :s

[Daniel]

Tis true, I would want a lot more car than a Fiesta for £16,200. I'm not sure I want to know how much a Focus costs's these days. :s
I'm sure back a few years ago that was probably bottom end Mondeo money.......

[Mark]

Actually if you are just looking at prices on the Ford website, with "customer saving" you can actually get a Focus Zetec 1.6 petrol for £15k.

[Daniel]

The worst car I have driven is a 3 series BMW 330i. Twenty plus grand and the ride quality is not a touch on the new Ford Mondeo.. Hideously overpriced IMO :)
What do you drive btw henners? With you living in Banbury I'm assuming some sort of Subaru or Aston Martin? :p

[Daniel]

Actually if you are just looking at prices on the Ford website, with "customer saving" you can actually get a Focus Zetec 1.6 petrol for £15k.
Well, diesels are stupidly overpriced IMHO and only usually end up passing the savings onto their second owners.

[AndyRAC]

The BMW MINI is ridiculously overpriced - but people are silly enough to pay for it.
And now they're bringing out a FWD 'Premium' car based on the same floorplan as the MINI. Cars that size should not be classed as Premium.

[Daniel]

I wish, although my friend John works for Aston and gets a 15% staff discount. Unfortunately I'd have to sell my house in order to take him up on his offer.. ;)

I'm afraid its an Audi A5 for me.. I know, I know.. :\
KNOBKNOBKNOBKNOB :p

Sorry! I just despise VW Group cars especially Audi's :p

Andy, The mini is soooooo overpriced. Go on the site and spec one up with some options you like such as leather and air con and perhaps even a nice colour. Then go on the Fiat site and do the same. The 500 Abarth starts at just over 14k and really does look the part and goes alright as well.

[Mark]

Sorry! I just despise VW Group cars especially Audi's :p


Nowt wrong with them apart from being incredibly dull!

[Daniel]

Nowt wrong with them apart from being incredibly dull!
That's BS I'm afraid. They're terribly overrated when it comes to reliability and they're overpriced. Oh and as you say they're also dull.

[Daniel]

BTW I don't own it, I'm not that stupid.. :p

I wouldn't part with the best part of thirty grand for a car with my own money, come on guys. I do find Audi's are more reliable than say a Mercedes C-Class or the BMW 3 Series equivilent. BMW have poor ride quality and horrendous gearboxes. You hit a pothole in a Beamer and it wants you off the road mate. Mercedes have a nicer ride quality but the electrics seem to start failing after the first 18 months or so or in my experience. Audi's are certainly not as dull as their rivals, but all seem to have the stereotype of being driven by c0cks. I must admit that they usually are.. ;)

Tyres are a problem on the Audi though. Low profiles seem to last 6 to 7 months and cost around £160 each.. :eek:
Whilst Audi's are probably better of the 3 top german marques they're still overrated.

The problem with those three marques is that to get a nice car to waft about in you have to get a 7 series, an A8 or an S series. Used to be that you could buy a 3 series back in the 80's and whilst it was a little sporty, it was also a comfy car unless you went for the M3 of course. Now every Bimmer, Merc and Audi is trying to be sporty.

[Daniel]

I'm well short of my 70th birthday though Daniel.. ;)
Perhaps if your car didn't have overly sporty suspension your tyres might last a little longer though :p At least you're not paying the bills though :D

[Dave B]

The BMW MINI is ridiculously overpriced - but people are silly enough to pay for it.
Careful now! I once made the mistake of expressing my dislike for that overpriced and overhyped waste of steel and a member here went off on a rant about how I must be racist as I clearly disliked all things German! Honestly, it's people like me... :eek: :p

[Daniel]

Careful now! I once made the mistake of expressing my dislike for that overpriced and overhyped waste of steel and a member here went off on a rant about how I must be racist as I clearly disliked all things German! Honestly, it's people like me... :eek: :p
Don't you be saying that about 500's! I'll accuse you of not liking Poles then :angryfire :p

[MattL]

It was a staggering year for price increases last year. Ford and Vauxhall led the way and many other manufacturers followed them - to start with, at least.

I've got some figures for weighted average % increase across the range of vehicles from Jan - Oct last year, which are below. I know that Ford have had a further two price increases since October as well.

Generally when list prices increase, so do discounts, with transaction prices tending to remain fairly constant, but that wasn't the case last year. It has started to move back in that direction again this year though. I suspect when ordertake slows down because the scrappage scheme has come to an end, some manufacturers will start to push harder.

Incidentally, one of the groups of people that it has hit hardest is company car drivers. Many pay tax based on the P11D value (list price) of the car they drive, so whatever the discounts available, they will pay more tax next time they come to order a new car. Likewise, many companies are finding that they can no longer offer the same vehicles in the same 'grades' that they did two or three years ago.

Weighted average price increase across range (Jan-Oct 2009)
Citroen - 6.5%
Fiat - 9%
Ford - 12%
Honda - 3.5%
Nissan - 2.5%
Peugeot - 8.5%
Renault - 10.4%
Toyota - 7.6%
Vauxhall - 13%

[AndyRAC]

KNOBKNOBKNOBKNOB :p

Sorry! I just despise VW Group cars especially Audi's :p

Andy, The mini is soooooo overpriced. Go on the site and spec one up with some options you like such as leather and air con and perhaps even a nice colour. Then go on the Fiat site and do the same. The 500 Abarth starts at just over 14k and really does look the part and goes alright as well.


Yeah, I have done - for the Cooper, CooperS and CooperD - and couldn't believe the price. Absolutely ridiculous - for that money I'd want it to make my tea and brush my teeth....... :p
Agree about the 500 Abarth, very nice - and reasonable money!!

[Malbec]

Weighted average price increase across range (Jan-Oct 2009)
Citroen - 6.5%
Fiat - 9%
Ford - 12%
Honda - 3.5%
Nissan - 2.5%
Peugeot - 8.5%
Renault - 10.4%
Toyota - 7.6%
Vauxhall - 13%

Since late 2008 to now the pound has lost about 33% of its value against the Euro, 25% against the US Dollar and about 40% against the Yen. Even British built cars have a huge proportion of parts imported so the cost of making them would have shot up. Against that background we're getting a bargain with the importers and manufacturers taking a big chunk of pain themselves from the poor exchange rates. We don't have much to complain about really.

[Rollo]

Can I add the Chevrolet Camaro to this?

The starting price is A$134,990 as opposed to the top of the line HSV product at $87,690.
The Camaro is basically a two door Commodore. It sits on precisely the same Zeta Platform, shares an identical engine and drivetrain and was even developed by Holden.

But, when Wheels magazine compared it to an HSV they found that the Camaro was of a worse built quality in terms of plastics used and panel fit, and the car didn't communicate as well to the driver.

Well done to GM for killing the Monaro and then selling a worse built car for 40 odd grand more.

[Daniel]

Can I add the Chevrolet Camaro to this?

The starting price is A$134,990 as opposed to the top of the line HSV product at $87,690.
The Camaro is basically a two door Commodore. It sits on precisely the same Zeta Platform, shares an identical engine and drivetrain and was even developed by Holden.

But, when Wheels magazine compared it to an HSV they found that the Camaro was of a worse built quality in terms of plastics used and panel fit, and the car didn't communicate as well to the driver.

Well done to GM for killing the Monaro and then selling a worse built car for 40 odd grand more.
WOW if it's worse built than a Holden and has WORSE plastics then it has to be pretty bad :laugh:

[Daniel]

Since late 2008 to now the pound has lost about 33% of its value against the Euro, 25% against the US Dollar and about 40% against the Yen. Even British built cars have a huge proportion of parts imported so the cost of making them would have shot up. Against that background we're getting a bargain with the importers and manufacturers taking a big chunk of pain themselves from the poor exchange rates. We don't have much to complain about really.
You forget to mention that historically the UK always paid a good deal more for their cars which was why people used to buy nearly new LHD cars on the continent and bring them over here.

Also, have a look at historical rates and you'll see that the pound hasn't lost anything near 33% compared to the Euro.

http://www.oanda.com/currency/historical-rates

[Kneeslider]

I can never get over how much money people (and I mean you guys) spend on cars.

OK, you are talking about new ones, with new car horriffic depreciation, but even so. I have had my Boxster for 4 years now, bought privately for £12,500, with all the options except air con, and 50k miles in my hands later it is probably worth about £6.5k.

I have been having trouble justifying to myself the possibility of spending my hard earned on a 996 era 911, even though I have been saving up for a long time and have cash waiting for the right one to come along, and I never, ever use finance.

What sort of a percentage of your salary could you justify spending on a car?

OK, I love my cars, but they still cost too much for what they are. Spending £15k+ for something like a Ford Fester or a Mini seems totally crazy to me.

[anthonyvop]

Are you guys really bitching about the price of a car going up?

Ever hear of "supply and demand?"

[GridGirl]

My current car was purchased new. The amount I paid monthly on finance excluding the part exchange on my old car was around 7% of my net monthly salary. The main cost associated with my car is the price of fuel but that is offset in part by any expenses I claim from work. I don't see that as excessive although I would have saved a considerable amount by buying a more economical car in the first place.

I don't think I would spend much more than the 12k I paid for my current car mainly because I don't need anything bigger, faster or require my car as some sort of status symbol. Besides, the other half bought the bigger, practical diesel so I didn't need too. ;)

[BDunnell]

Careful now! I once made the mistake of expressing my dislike for that overpriced and overhyped waste of steel and a member here went off on a rant about how I must be racist as I clearly disliked all things German! Honestly, it's people like me... :eek: :p

And for your steadfast refusal to CAPITALISE its NAME, when there is no REASON for doing SO just because BMW do LIKEWISE. Because it is NOT an acronym, there is as much of a REASON to capitalise Mini AS there IS any of the WORDS in this PASSAGE.

[wedge]

OK, I love my cars, but they still cost too much for what they are. Spending £15k+ for something like a Ford Fester or a Mini seems totally crazy to me.

At least the Mini depreciates well.

I'd rather buy nearly new with decent mileage on it.

Only time I brought a new car was because of free insurance.

My sister just traded/scrapped her 15 year old Polo for a spanking new Hyundai i30 because of the 5 year warranty.

[Daniel]

And for your steadfast refusal to CAPITALISE its NAME, when there is no REASON for doing SO just because BMW do LIKEWISE. Because it is NOT an acronym, there is as much of a REASON to capitalise Mini AS there IS any of the WORDS in this PASSAGE.
Really annoys Mini owners when you do that. Apparently Smart is also meant to be all capitals. Don't ****ing tell me how to write in my language Fritz! :p It's Mini and Smart! Another thing which annoys me is 500 owners who type it as 5oo because the badge looks like that and then the ones that insist on saying Cinquecento to make themselves seem all Italian even though they don't even understand Italian.

[Daniel]

At least the Mini depreciates well.

I'd rather buy nearly new with decent mileage on it.

Only time I brought a new car was because of free insurance.

My sister just traded/scrapped her 15 year old Polo for a spanking new Hyundai i30 because of the 5 year warranty.
***Dave, please don't read this***

I personally think that a warranty of more than 3 years is a bit useless. Cars are fairly reliable these days and most failures occur in the first year or two of ownership anyway. 5 year warranties also tend to have a load of exclusions anyway like clutches and other wear items. At the end of it all you are paying for the extra years of warranty in the purchase price anyway!

[BDunnell]

Really annoys Mini owners when you do that.

Which must mean that Mini owners are slaves to corporate branding. Funny that.


Another thing which annoys me is 500 owners who type it as 5oo because the badge looks like that and then the ones that insist on saying Cinquecento to make themselves seem all Italian even though they don't even understand Italian.

Don't forget that the previous model was solely marketed in the UK as the Cinquecento, so this is why people know how to spell it.

[Daniel]

Which must mean that Mini owners are slaves to corporate branding. Funny that.



Don't forget that the previous model was solely marketed in the UK as the Cinquecento, so this is why people know how to spell it.
Of course. I just think that if it says Cinquecento on the back then it's a Cinquecento and if it says 500 on the back then it's a 500 :)

To be fair to MINI drivers, 5oo owners seem to be equally obsessed with branding and this silly La Dolce Vita idea that some seem to latch onto and they'll buy any bit of overpriced tat that's shoved into their face as long as it has a 5oo logo on it or it's shaped like a 500. Some also have this hilarious hatred of MINI's and their DRIVERS which is rather similar to the hatred shown by some neanderthal football supporter when they see someone wearing the shirt of their arch rivals. It really is funny :rotflmao:

I say this all of course as a 500 driver who doesn't think that my car makes me better than anyone else :)

[BDunnell]

Of course. I just think that if it says Cinquecento on the back then it's a Cinquecento and if it says 500 on the back then it's a 500 :)

Agreed.

[AJP]

All cars are over priced pieces of s@%t...

We get screwed by manufacturers left right and centre and keep on going back for more...

I personally will find it very hard to justify ever buying a new car ever...so far I have never, and certainly do not plan on it anytime soon...

My love affair with cars is very bitter....can't you tell ;)

[Daniel]

All cars are over priced pieces of s@%t...

We get screwed by manufacturers left right and centre and keep on going back for more...

I personally will find it very hard to justify ever buying a new car ever...so far I have never, and certainly do not plan on it anytime soon...

My love affair with cars is very bitter....can't you tell ;)

I was the same tbh until scrappage came along and I could get a genuine ~20% off a new car which wasn't then going to lose 30% of value of its list price when it went off the forecourt. Would I do it again? Almost certainly no! Unless it was to get another car which we could get a very good deal on and then keep indefinitely. I also bought something which was based on a car which has been in production for about 7 years already and with an engine and gearbox which has been production for a good 15 years or so. So it's a fairly safe bet and not a leap into the unknown.

IMHO cars in the UK seem not to be as well maintained as cars back in Australia and are viewed more as fashion items or as disposable. Conditions are also harsher here too. Give me a 10 year old Australian car over a 3 year old British car any day.

[Mark]

IMHO cars in the UK seem not to be as well maintained as cars back in Australia and are viewed more as fashion items or as disposable. Conditions are also harsher here too. Give me a 10 year old Australian car over a 3 year old British car any day.

There's two big things which affects cars in the UK. Water and salt.
Now you don't have salt on the roads in Australia and it's too bloody hot!
And you don't have any water in the entire country either. :D

[Daniel]

There's two big things which affects cars in the UK. Water and salt.
Now you don't have salt on the roads in Australia and it's too bloody hot!
And you don't have any water in the entire country either. :D
Not talking about the body of the car :) The body on my 406 was in good condition in terms of rust (there wasn't any!) but it looked as if it was always braille parked, the interior was rough and the engine was a bucket of bolts.

Caroline's car is the opposite. The engine and gearbox are pretty sweet, the interior is decent though could use a bit of a clean, the body is rusty in a few places and it needs two new doors and the two front wings as they're past being able to be saved. I'm going to pester Caroline to get the rust on the body sorted when she's off for Easter.

[Dave B]

***Dave, please don't read this***
It's ok! My car was beset with electrical problems but it's a 54 reg so wasn't covered by a warranty anyway.

Besides, with the increase in 2nd hand car prices, coupled with the rather nice bit of haggling we did at the time, there are similar cars on Auto Trader up for what we paid for ours a year ago plus the price of the repairs. We could sell it now and virtually be no worse off, even after almost a year's use :D

[wedge]

***Dave, please don't read this***

I personally think that a warranty of more than 3 years is a bit useless. Cars are fairly reliable these days and most failures occur in the first year or two of ownership anyway. 5 year warranties also tend to have a load of exclusions anyway like clutches and other wear items. At the end of it all you are paying for the extra years of warranty in the purchase price anyway!

Judging by correspondents to Automotive Agony Aunts there are new car owners who seem to think cars are built to withstand 3 years/ 30,000 miles of abuse, not to mention unscrupulous franchised garages claiming to fix the original part under warranty but really didn't when you take it to an independent garage when warranty expires.

[Daniel]

I don't quite get what you mean?

[Daniel]

It's ok! My car was beset with electrical problems but it's a 54 reg so wasn't covered by a warranty anyway.

Besides, with the increase in 2nd hand car prices, coupled with the rather nice bit of haggling we did at the time, there are similar cars on Auto Trader up for what we paid for ours a year ago plus the price of the repairs. We could sell it now and virtually be no worse off, even after almost a year's use :D
I wouldn't be so calm after the money you paid to get that sorted Dave!

The whole scrappage scheme and rise in car prices is good in that respect though. Buying our 500 has been a pretty risk free thing for us. According to the network q site we can get £60 more for our car than what we paid for it 8 months ago with no problems if we just walk into a dealer, not to mention we could probably sell it for a grand more privately.

[Mark]

I wouldn't be so calm after the money you paid to get that sorted Dave!

The whole scrappage scheme and rise in car prices is good in that respect though. Buying our 500 has been a pretty risk free thing for us. According to the network q site we can get £60 more for our car than what we paid for it 8 months ago with no problems if we just walk into a dealer, not to mention we could probably sell it for a grand more privately.

Well it's like house prices, rises don't mean anything unless you are exiting the market or downsizing, as you'll need to buy something else.

[Daniel]

Well it's like house prices, rises don't mean anything unless you are exiting the market or downsizing, as you'll need to buy something else.
Of course. But there's always the worry that you've committed yourself to something and that if you need to sell it you'll be out of pocket.

[anthonyvop]

Let me explain it to those who just don't get it.

Cars are not overpriced.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a car.

The price you pay for a car is the exact value you have placed on the car.

[Daniel]

Let me explain it to those who just don't get it.

Cars are not overpriced.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a car.

The price you pay for a car is the exact value you have placed on the car.
Of course. No one here is campaigning for prices to be lowered. Simply that compared to a few years ago prices are sky high now.

[veeten]

Let me explain it to those who just don't get it.

Cars are not overpriced.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a car.

The price you pay for a car is the exact value you have placed on the car.

actually, it is this...

Wholesale(Buyer) price - that which the retailler pays the manufacturer to purchase said item(s) for selling to the general public.

MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) - that which the retailler advertises to the general public, minus taxes, title, dealer preperation & add-on packages, etc.

Final price - that which individual and retailler agrees to after negotiation.

The only 'exact value' was the original price (Wholesale), after that there has been nothing but change thruout the entire process, all of which has been added-on.

[DexDexter]

IMO basically all the premium brands are overpriced. A good example is comparing, for example, a Skoda Superb to Mercedes E-classe and then looking at the price of the respective cars, that's just crazy. :rolleyes:

[GridGirl]

actually, it is this...

Wholesale(Buyer) price - that which the retailler pays the manufacturer to purchase said item(s) for selling to the general public.

MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) - that which the retailler advertises to the general public, minus taxes, title, dealer preperation & add-on packages, etc.

Final price - that which individual and retailler agrees to after negotiation.

The only 'exact value' was the original price (Wholesale), after that there has been nothing but change thruout the entire process, all of which has been added-on.

Good post. A number of my clients are car dealerships so I've got to see various makes and model's at wholesale prices. Daniel, may have saved his £2k in scrappage but a few name drops and price hints and I think I coulda saved alot more and still given the dealer a profit. :p

I recently found out how the systems of a large national tyre firm work. I don't think I will be paying retail prices again! :D

[Daniel]

Good post. A number of my clients are car dealerships so I've got to see various makes and model's at wholesale prices. Daniel, may have saved his £2k in scrappage but a few name drops and price hints and I think I coulda saved alot more and still given the dealer a profit. :p

I recently found out how the systems of a large national tyre firm work. I don't think I will be paying retail prices again! :D
LOL GG :) Seriously, go ask a dealer what they'll give you off a 500 and you'll be surprised :)

[GridGirl]

I don't want to go to a dealer because I don't want a 500. :p I have seen quite a few purchase and sales invoices in my time though. Following the entire system is quite an eye opener.

[BDunnell]

Let me explain it to those who just don't get it.

Cars are not overpriced.

Nobody is forcing you to buy a car.

The price you pay for a car is the exact value you have placed on the car.

In your considered opinion, has a manufacturer ever priced a product — car or otherwise — unfairly?

[anthonyvop]

In your considered opinion, has a manufacturer ever priced a product — car or otherwise — unfairly?

Unfairly?

NEVER!

[Mark]

Unfairly?

NEVER!

It depends doesn't it. If for example you are selling gas and you are a monopoly supplier?

It *does* make a difference however to the wealth of a population if the prices of goods are rising faster than their incomes.

[Daniel]

It depends doesn't it. If for example you are selling gas and you are a monopoly supplier?

It *does* make a difference however to the wealth of a population if the prices of goods are rising faster than their incomes.
Tbh though I don't really think that the way things are currently where lots of people buy new cars every few years is financially sustainable or indeed environmentally friendly.

[Langdale Forest]

The whole scrappage scheme and rise in car prices is good in that respect though. Buying our 500 has been a pretty risk free thing for us. According to the network q site we can get £60 more for our car than what we paid for it 8 months ago with no problems if we just walk into a dealer, not to mention we could probably sell it for a grand more privately.

The scrappage scheme is bad for the enviroment because you are destroying many good working cars for no reason other than the fact that you will get £2000 of a new car.

[Daniel]

The scrappage scheme is bad for the enviroment because you are destroying many good working cars for no reason other than the fact that you will get £2000 of a new car.

Yes. But to be fair my 406 doesn't fit into that category. My 406 needed a new engine and therefore made a better car to have parts taken off it to keep other 406's on the road. I would certainly never scrap a car which was decent just to get 2k off a new one.

[Langdale Forest]

But some cars will be scrapped just because there is a dent in the wing and that is pointless IMO. I agree with scrapping some cars so the parts can keep other cars going.

[anthonyvop]

It *does* make a difference however to the wealth of a population if the prices of goods are rising faster than their incomes.


No it doesn't.

A car is not a necessity. It is a luxury.
If the prices of cars rises to high for the general population it is the Populations fault not the car makers.

I want a Ferrari California. It isn't Ferrari's Fault I can't afford one(Yet). It is my fault.
The good/smart car makers will adjust. The Bad/Dumb ones won't.

[Rollo]

If the prices of cars rises to high for the general population it is the Populations fault not the car makers.

And therefore the forces of supply and demand will take over and thus the car maker won't be able sell their cars... and if they want to shift units will have to lower their prices.

Thus the title of this thread is spot on. An overpriced car is obviously one at which the price charged is in disequilibrium with what the market is prepared to pay.

[Malbec]

Thus the title of this thread is spot on. An overpriced car is obviously one at which the price charged is in disequilibrium with what the market is prepared to pay.

Problem is that sales have dropped not necessarily due to overpricing but the lack of affordable credit.

Antonyvop's talk about supply and demand is too simplistic, the biggest factor in the recent price rises is the large fall in the value of the pound and not fluctuation in supply (after all there is far too much supply around, we all know about the overcapacity in car production around Europe).

We the consumer don't have to pay the full cost of the price hikes due to the fall in the pound, a lot of that cost has been absorbed both by the manufacturers and the UK based importers. That does say a lot about how high profit margins were in the good times though.

[Daniel]

the large fall in the value of the pound and not fluctuation in supply (after all there is far too much supply around, we all know about the overcapacity in car production around Europe).

Huh? Do yourself a favour and find out what the value of the pound was relative to the euro at the beginning of last year, at the end of last year and now.

[Malbec]

Huh? Do yourself a favour and find out what the value of the pound was relative to the euro at the beginning of last year, at the end of last year and now.

Actually the best marker date is early-mid 2008 to now. The pound fell most at the start of the credit crisis when it became clear that Britain would suffer most out of the main developed economies due to its dependence on the financial sector. The timescale you're using (early 2009 to now) is too late, by that time the pound had already fallen in value.

The car makers and most importers of other goods kept their prices stable and absorbed the cost of the fall in sterling themselves for most of 2008 and some of 2009 but began raising prices to compensate last year.

Back in early 2008 the pound was worth something like 230-50 yen, now its worth 140 or so. Have cars like the Prius gone up in price by 60% to compensate?

[Koz]

Let me share something... I bought a Lexus IS200 (Toyota Altezza RS200 actually) in 2008... nearly 22,000$NZ

Right now... I would be lucky to sell it for 8,000.. It's a great car, very finely balanced, lack power though... It's a heart break having it sitting in my mother's garage for the last 18 odd months (4,000km in that time). Driving a diesel is so much cheaper at this point in time. Not a day goes by when I don't want to take it for a spin, just can't afford to.

F&cking heartbreak! :(

[Daniel]

Actually the best marker date is early-mid 2008 to now. The pound fell most at the start of the credit crisis when it became clear that Britain would suffer most out of the main developed economies due to its dependence on the financial sector. The timescale you're using (early 2009 to now) is too late, by that time the pound had already fallen in value.

The car makers and most importers of other goods kept their prices stable and absorbed the cost of the fall in sterling themselves for most of 2008 and some of 2009 but began raising prices to compensate last year.

Back in early 2008 the pound was worth something like 230-50 yen, now its worth 140 or so. Have cars like the Prius gone up in price by 60% to compensate?
That's a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. You've got VAT which is paid in the UK and lots of other costs incurred in the UK so if a currency is only worth half of what it was worth before it doesn't mean the cost is doubled.

[Daniel]

Let me share something... I bought a Lexus IS200 (Toyota Altezza RS200 actually) in 2008... nearly 22,000$NZ

Right now... I would be lucky to sell it for 8,000.. It's a great car, very finely balanced, lack power though... It's a heart break having it sitting in my mother's garage for the last 18 odd months (4,000km in that time). Driving a diesel is so much cheaper at this point in time. Not a day goes by when I don't want to take it for a spin, just can't afford to.

F&cking heartbreak! :(
Why would you buy it then? :confused:

[anthonyvop]

Problem is that sales have dropped not necessarily due to overpricing but the lack of affordable credit.

Antonyvop's talk about supply and demand is too simplistic, the biggest factor in the recent price rises is the large fall in the value of the pound and not fluctuation in supply (after all there is far too much supply around, we all know about the overcapacity in car production around Europe).

We the consumer don't have to pay the full cost of the price hikes due to the fall in the pound, a lot of that cost has been absorbed both by the manufacturers and the UK based importers. That does say a lot about how high profit margins were in the good times though.
Actually your explanation is too simplistic.
The drop in car sales started when the price of Gas went up a few years ago. Large vehicle sales dropped and those that owned one couldn't sell them at a reasonable price. Then came the credit crunch.

[Malbec]

Actually your explanation is too simplistic.
The drop in car sales started when the price of Gas went up a few years ago. Large vehicle sales dropped and those that owned one couldn't sell them at a reasonable price. Then came the credit crunch.

That is only true of the US. This thread is about UK car prices. Better luck next time.

[Malbec]

That's a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. You've got VAT which is paid in the UK and lots of other costs incurred in the UK so if a currency is only worth half of what it was worth before it doesn't mean the cost is doubled.

Sure its simplistic, although adding VAT will still inflate the price by whatever factor the original price increases by.

I'm curious. You clearly don't buy it that the pound falling is the cause of the price rises. What do you think is the cause then? And furthermore, why is it that you think we have inflation rates that are as high as if not higher than the biggest boom years if its not due to the spiralling cost of imported goods thanks to the pound being so weak?

The BOE puts it down to the weak pound. What do you put it down to?

[gloomyDAY]

I'm buying a motorcycle soon, so none of this tomfoolery!


That is only true of the US. This thread is about UK car prices. Better luck next time.Really? I didn't know we we're being excluded from threads.

[Malbec]

I'm buying a motorcycle soon, so none of this tomfoolery!

Actually thats why I've looked into price rises originally, I'm a biker too and was pretty worried that UK prices would shoot up thanks to the weak pound and the strong yen and Euro. They haven't gone up as much as the exchange rate but we're still looking at a 10-15% price rise for imported bikes.

Those price rises clearly aren't because of dealers skimming a profit, even in London motorbike dealers are collapsing left right and centre despite sales supposedly staying buoyant through the recession.


Really? I didn't know we we're being excluded from threads.

Why feel excluded? This thread was clearly started as a comment on British car prices, doesn't stop you from having an opinion on them.

[Daniel]

Sure its simplistic, although adding VAT will still inflate the price by whatever factor the original price increases by.

I'm curious. You clearly don't buy it that the pound falling is the cause of the price rises. What do you think is the cause then? And furthermore, why is it that you think we have inflation rates that are as high as if not higher than the biggest boom years if its not due to the spiralling cost of imported goods thanks to the pound being so weak?

The BOE puts it down to the weak pound. What do you put it down to?
I agree that the falling pound has been a factor.But a big factor in the prices which buyers are actually getting (see GG's example of getting a big discount) is the fact that supply and demand has swung the other way and manufacturers have their inventories under control.

[gloomyDAY]

Actually thats why I've looked into price rises originally, I'm a biker too and was pretty worried that UK prices would shoot up thanks to the weak pound and the strong yen and Euro. They haven't gone up as much as the exchange rate but we're still looking at a 10-15% price rise for imported bikes.

Those price rises clearly aren't because of dealers skimming a profit, even in London motorbike dealers are collapsing left right and centre despite sales supposedly staying buoyant through the recession.I'm going to buy a used motorcycle from a private owner. I like paying with cash rather than dealing with meddling dealerships. That's how I paid for my little Toyota Camry. It's 10 years-old, but still makes the long trips up the mountains.

The bike I'm buying is going to be for motocross. I don't want to buy a motorcycle as a daily driver around here because it's too crowded. Much rather go out to the ranch and raise hell.


Why feel excluded? This thread was clearly started as a comment on British car prices, doesn't stop you from having an opinion on them.Well, this thread sparked my curiosity and made me look at prices for new cars. The prices here have steadily risen. I'm not sure whether that has anything to do with inflation.

[Malbec]

I agree that the falling pound has been a factor.But a big factor in the prices which buyers are actually getting (see GG's example of getting a big discount) is the fact that supply and demand has swung the other way and manufacturers have their inventories under control.

If thats the case why haven't prices in the Eurozone gone up like they have in the UK?

[Daniel]

If thats the case why haven't prices in the Eurozone gone up like they have in the UK?
I think prices have? You've also got to remember that prior to the credit crunch cars were more expensive in Britain compared to on the continent.

[Malbec]

I'm going to buy a used motorcycle from a private owner. I like paying with cash rather than dealing with meddling dealerships. That's how I paid for my little Toyota Camry. It's 10 years-old, but still makes the long trips up the mountains.

The bike I'm buying is going to be for motocross. I don't want to buy a motorcycle as a daily driver around here because it's too crowded. Much rather go out to the ranch and raise hell.

I'm at the opposite end of the scale from you, looking for a sportstourer as a daily commuter so I need the security a dealership brings.

I wouldn't mind a motocross since they look great around town but I'm simply not tall enough to ride them comfortably.

[Malbec]

I think prices have? You've also got to remember that prior to the credit crunch cars were more expensive in Britain compared to on the continent.

Not as much as they have in the UK, maybe enough to cover for inflation but not into double digit price rises.

A basic BMW 3-series tourer 318 cost 29650 Euros at launch in Sept 2008 and costs 30,360 now. That isn't a significant increase and not in the same ballpark as UK price rises over the same period.

I'm well aware of the high margins both dealers and makers USED to make before the credit crunch and believe me I'm not shedding tears for them, but they aren't making much of a margin now thanks to the exchange rate.

[EDIT] I believe you have a Fiat 500, launch price in Oct 2007 10,500 Euros in Italy for a no-frills one, price now nearly two and a half years later is 10% higher at 11,550 Euros. UK prices have gone up as much in that nine month period posted earlier in this thread from Jan to Oct 2009....

[anthonyvop]

That is only true of the US. This thread is about UK car prices. Better luck next time.

If it isn't about the U.S. then why is anybody bothering to post?

[Daniel]

i think Italy is a bad example. The Panda outsells the 500 in Italy. Here the demand for the 500 is much stronger.