Stupid Question about refueling

[Hiryu]

Granted that we're going to find out how this works next week, how is fueling the cars going to be handled? Will there be a common station to fill up? Will the teams be using DTM-style fueling cans during qualifying? Inquiring minds wonder as I wasn't watching the series back in the day.

[K-Pu]

I think there will be no common station, since each team has their own fuel supplier and their own fuel, although they are quite similar.

[Saint Devote]

This thread has just made me realize that maybe MOST fans have never seen a race without fuel stops let alone one without any pit stops!

Most of my experience as a F1 supporter since a kid has been WITHOUT ANY pit stops - you head for the pits if you have a problem, otherwise keep racing.

I remember how strange it was when Brabham started the whole pit stop era rolling again.

[K-Pu]

This thread has just made me realize that maybe MOST fans have never seen a race without fuel stops let alone one without any pit stops!

Most of my experience as a F1 supporter since a kid has been WITHOUT ANY pit stops - you head for the pits if you have a problem, otherwise keep racing.

I remember how strange it was when Brabham started the whole pit stop era rolling again.

Forgive my supine ignorance, you ultimate personification of F1 knowledge, but the question is about how teams are going to deal with the fuel for the cars IN GENERAL, since the refuelling ban does not mean the cars must run without fuel. The thing is, what are the teams going to do with fuel?

And forgive me again for thinking everyone can ask whatever they please and get answered without being promptly insulted. Maybe this is because I missed the lesson when they explained how to ignore everything that´s not already deep into my head.

[JustRace]

Forgive my supine ignorance, you ultimate personification of F1 knowledge, but the question is about how teams are going to deal with the fuel for the cars IN GENERAL, since the refuelling ban does not mean the cars must run without fuel. The thing is, what are the teams going to do with fuel?

And forgive me again for thinking everyone can ask whatever they please and get answered without being promptly insulted. Maybe this is because I missed the lesson when they explained how to ignore everything that´s not already deep into my head.

uh, what? where did he insult you?

Lighten up, Francis.

[Easy Drifter]

It is not a stupid question.
I do not know the answer but most teams will probably have their old rigs as the fuel used during the weekend will be about the same.
Probably used in pit lane during practice and qualifying since that is safer than in the garages.
Just can't use it in the race.
Anybody know for sure?
And I started following races when refueling was common except for the Talbots!

[airshifter]

I have no idea how it will work, but I suspect the pressurized rigs will be gone, since that caused most of the safety concerns. All they really need is a gravity rig.

[CNR]

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8714/fia.html

29) REFUELLING
29.1
a) Refuelling is only permitted in the team's designated garage area.

Question about fueling
FIA may take a one-litre fuel sample from any car at any time during a Grand Prix meeting to check that the fuel being used is legal.
will cars need to carry one-litre extra fuel just incase ?

[Saint Devote]

uh, what? where did he insult you?

Lighten up, Francis.

:up: :D

[turismo6]

I just had a quick look at some 2010 cars, Doesn't look like the McLaren has a fuel flap, which would probably suggest the a airbox cover would have to come off for a refuel. While Ferrari have similar flap to last year's cars but I would assume that it doesn't have the mechanics behind it, pit crew opening it by unscrewing two bolts?

One another note I read somewhere that refuelling is permitted during the race only if the car is off... I'll will try and find article.

[Saint Devote]

I have no idea how it will work, but I suspect the pressurized rigs will be gone, since that caused most of the safety concerns. All they really need is a gravity rig.

It used to be that the teams had as much fuel as they wanted in bowsers behind the pits. Evaporation, spillage and during free practice time and so on.

When the cars were refuelled - and I am unaware whether you attended grands prix in those days - totally immersed fans like myself could get into the paddock and during practice on the pit apron where the fuel fumes were just incredible during refuelling.

You could literally see the high octane evaporating in the heat.

Racing fuel was always a great smell :eek:

These days with fuel octane lower the effect is less and unfortunately fans can no longer get close to the action.

But if one is an idiot celebrity then it seems its no problem. Sad reflection in what has happened.

[Easy Drifter]

Thanks Thunder.
I would have thought outside would have been safer because of fumes. Obviously not under pressure now, or not much.

For fumes you would have enjoyed us fueling with methanol (plus a few unmentional additives but not nitro). Plus until good synthetic oils came along we added Castrol R to the mix.
Methanol washed all regular oil off of everything and wouldn't mix. So a little R was added to the fuel for lubrication. Wonderful smell. Terrible fumes that made your eyes water.
You should see the safety bumf about handling and breathing Methanol that we all ignored.

[Mark]

The problem with the old setup that it was designed to work at high speed under pressure (both the fuel and the mechanics!). Now fuelling up an F1 car will be much more like filling a road car!

[ArrowsFA1]

I remember how strange it was when Brabham started the whole pit stop era rolling again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ0Hq_WIRAQ

[V12]

Good question, I have a picture from an old book (early 90s, i.e. just before refuelling was reintroduced), that shows a Senna/Berger-era McLaren being refuelled with the airbox and engine cover removed and the fuel tank being gravity fed via a large funnel into which a fuel canister was being poured.

Whether there's any new-fangled 21st century technology in place of that, who knows...

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ0Hq_WIRAQ

Clive James' commentary is brilliant.

[Dave B]

I have no idea how it will work, but I suspect the pressurized rigs will be gone, since that caused most of the safety concerns. All they really need is a gravity rig.


http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/157x0b.jpg (http://twitpic.com/157x0b)

This pic (click for biggie) from Claire at Williams shows refuelling at the test, she says they use a larger rig at the GP. It can't be gravity fed, but I suspect it's far lower pressure than in previous seasons. She says that with this small rig it takes five minutes to fill the car!

As far as I'm aware you are allowed to refuel during a race BUT it has to be done in the garage with the engine off, and the mechanics have to manually remove the fuel cover, so there's absolutely no chance of making any advantage. An emergency fuel stop would take well over a couple of minutes, so certainly won't be featuring in anybody's strategy!

[V12]

As far as I'm aware you are allowed to refuel during a race BUT it has to be done in the garage with the engine off, and the mechanics have to manually remove the fuel cover, so there's absolutely no chance of making any advantage. An emergency fuel stop would take well over a couple of minutes, so certainly won't be featuring in anybody's strategy!

Very sensible and very reasonable rule that. For once. When they banned tyre changes that year (2005?) they should have had a similar rule (wheeling it into the garage), rather than the horribly grey "can change one tyre for safety reasons blah blah blah" rule.