WTCC Round 1 - Curtiba

[52Paddy]

Finally nice to see the adverts for the coming weekend's race. I haven't really been up to date with the WTCC world so haven't a clue what to expect. I just know I'm looking forward to getting back to following the action. :)

[DazzlaF1]

Finally nice to see the adverts for the coming weekend's race. I haven't really been up to date with the WTCC world so haven't a clue what to expect. I just know I'm looking forward to getting back to following the action. :)

Im expecting a walk in the park for the Leon TDI's, i think there's 6 of them in Brazil for the 1st weekend

[tisme]

There are unconfirmed reports that it has been cancelled due to flooding in the area...

[Alfa Fan]

There are unconfirmed reports that it has been cancelled due to flooding in the area...

Weren't those reports regarding the 2nd round at Puebla?

[tisme]

Yeah. They also concerned about the drug runners...

[52Paddy]

I just watched Eurosport's preview show. The grid is a bit Seat-heavy but it will still be interesting to see the Priaulx/Farfus pairing, how Thommo manages in what seems like a hunk of junk and how the Chevys get on. That Cruze looks cumbersome.

[Alfa Fan]

Now I'm very confused. Thompson isn't racing!

[52Paddy]

Now I'm very confused. Thompson isn't racing!

Well then I was under some influence. Sorry about that :confused:

[mac853]

Could somebody explain me what are those grid races, please?
Could anybody tell me also if will have livestream in somewhere, please?
In fact i know now is very difficult to watch live from internet due the restrictions by the law.

Best regards

[52Paddy]

Could somebody explain me what are those grid races, please?

Do you mean qualifying?

[PDS]

Muller on pole... Get in there!!!!

3 Chevies in the top FOUR...

Can't wait for the race now.

[UltimateDanGTR]

only 19 cars on the grid....from 3 car makes. from a world championship, thats poor.

but 2010 is a transition year i spose as new regs in 2011 HOPEFULLY bring new manufacturers and it would be nice to think a golden age of the series could begin then.

By the time we get to brands hatch though, the grid should be a little bigger especially with the planned couple of races Hartmaan will be doing with a couple of hondas, Thommo in one of the cars :)

and i still expect an exciting championship!

[52Paddy]

Thommo is pretty decent in the commentary box too :up: :p :

I'd say the Chevy's will be hard to beat. Seat don't seem to having an edge over them and BMW had a poor outing relatively speaking.

Warm-up begins soon.

[Allyc85]

Both races wernt exactly classics, but it was great to have some touring car racing again.

Great start to the season for Chevrolet, you have to love the way Muller slides the car about, who says FWD is boring ;)

[Daniel]

What does it take for Tarquini to get a penalty for shoving someone off? Tbh this is the less obvious of the two incident's he's been involved in with Priaulx but what will his shenanigans actually result in him getting the sort of penalty he deserves?

[BDunnell]

Thommo is pretty decent in the commentary box too :up: :p :

Did you think? In my opinion, he was appallingly dull.

[Daniel]

Did you think? In my opinion, he was appallingly dull.
Have to agree. There was no contrast or conflict between the two commentators and IMHO that really just made it dull.

[Daniel]

What does it take for Tarquini to get a penalty for shoving someone off? Tbh this is the less obvious of the two incident's he's been involved in with Priaulx but what will his shenanigans actually result in him getting the sort of penalty he deserves?
fiawtcc site says Farfus hit Priaulx. If that's true I guess I take back what I said above :p

[52Paddy]

Did you think? In my opinion, he was appallingly dull.

I thought his delivery was confident and relaxed. He was also laughing a good deal. He definitely doesn't share the same enthusiasm or tone of Haven (who I think is class) and his monotone voice was a little off-putting but he did a much better job than I'd expected. No Haven though!

As for the race, yeah they were processional enough for touring car races but a big thumbs up to Chevy for a great start to the year :up: If they can show that form at a circuit that they've had no previous success, I wonder what the results will be like at the European circuits. BMW had an awful struggle all weekend though but I was most gutted for Coronel going off when looking in good form for race 2. Mind you, he did jump the start on the formation lap and then had a pretty bad start to the race itself so maybe he wasn't fully confident from the beginning.

[BDunnell]

I thought his delivery was confident and relaxed. He was also laughing a good deal. He definitely doesn't share the same enthusiasm or tone of Haven (who I think is class) and his monotone voice was a little off-putting but he did a much better job than I'd expected. No Haven though!

We will have to agree to disagree on all of this, because I think Martin Haven is a dire commentator, with no fluency to his delivery at all, far too prone to confusion and undue verbosity.

[Daniel]

We will have to agree to disagree on all of this, because I think Martin Haven is a dire commentator, with no fluency to his delivery at all, far too prone to confusion and undue verbosity.
Martin Haven confused? NEVER :D

[DazzlaF1]

Did you think? In my opinion, he was appallingly dull.

Just like the racing itself which I found to be a bit boring.

Maybe im comparing it too much to the final BTCC race last year, that was epic.

[BDunnell]

Just like the racing itself which I found to be a bit boring.

Maybe im comparing it too much to the final BTCC race last year, that was epic.

Well, the circuit probably didn't help.

[Les]

I have come to the conclusion it is the mixture of the filming which shows lots of processional cars and never seems to anticipate a try at overtaking with a commentary, which though informative, never gets excited about anything which makes the WTCC so boring to watch.

[Eurotech]

Thommo was quite good considering its his first time, for those who have it, watch the BTCC 2003 review DVD (round 1) and listen to Tim Harvey. Thats a better comparison.

[BDunnell]

Thommo was quite good considering its his first time, for those who have it, watch the BTCC 2003 review DVD (round 1) and listen to Tim Harvey. Thats a better comparison.

It would be had that BTCC commentary been the live version. As it was, it was recorded, and ITV's recorded BTCC coverage was always woeful. I remember watching those races live on Motors TV at the time and being very impressed by Tim Harvey as a first-time commentator. There was plenty of modulation in his voice, for one thing.

[BeansBeansBeans]

There was little to get excited about in either of yesterday's races, but I'll watch a few more rounds at better circuits before I write the series off.

[Daniel]

Well, the circuit probably didn't help.
Definitely. I do think the WTCC has officially hit the point of no-return where there aren't really a sufficient number of factory cars to keep it going at a strength where it can maintain the current field and/or attract new manufacturers. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong though. Cheers FIA for giving Seat free run and letting them ruin the series :thumb:

[BeansBeansBeans]

One thing I'd like to see disappear are the team orders we've seen in recent years. Now I know it's a team sport and that team orders have been around for ever, but the sight of whole packs of Beemers and Seats re-arranging each other on track is never going to be exciting.

[AndyRAC]

Well, the circuit probably didn't help.

Mmm, so why not use Interlagos?

I know there is the double-header with the IRC round - so Curitiba is used, but struggling series need all the help they can get - that means using circuits that encourage racing.

[52Paddy]

We will have to agree to disagree on all of this, because I think Martin Haven is a dire commentator, with no fluency to his delivery at all, far too prone to confusion and undue verbosity.

Let me just say that you possibly the most civilised poster I've met here :up:

I'll hold my opinion until the end of season. As a person who doesn't get Eurosport on standard terrestrial, I haven't had that much exposure to Haven. I'll build up a stronger opinion as the year goes on.

[BDunnell]

Definitely. I do think the WTCC has officially hit the point of no-return where there aren't really a sufficient number of factory cars to keep it going at a strength where it can maintain the current field and/or attract new manufacturers. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong though. Cheers FIA for giving Seat free run and letting them ruin the series :thumb:

Touring car racing has often been cyclical. I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the up again soon. But I would say that the FIA's stewardship of touring cars as a category has often been dire. It can be excused to some extent in relation to the 1987 WTCC fiasco, because cheating was so rife in tin-top racing then. Now, there is less excuse for having created a championship in which there are groups of cars from the same manufacturer going round together. It didn't look all that healthy. Say what you like about the BTCC, and I know you do, but at least the field is genuinely mixed up even at the first race of the season without any ballast on. Hopefully the WTCC will improve in this regard as the season goes on, because the driver line-up is basically pretty good.

[Daniel]

Touring car racing has often been cyclical. I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the up again soon. But I would say that the FIA's stewardship of touring cars as a category has often been dire. It can be excused to some extent in relation to the 1987 WTCC fiasco, because cheating was so rife in tin-top racing then. Now, there is less excuse for having created a championship in which there are groups of cars from the same manufacturer going round together. It didn't look all that healthy. Say what you like about the BTCC, and I know you do, but at least the field is genuinely mixed up even at the first race of the season without any ballast on. Hopefully the WTCC will improve in this regard as the season goes on, because the driver line-up is basically pretty good.
I'll concede that for sure :) The whole diseasel vs petrol car thing was a joke from the start. I'm all for alternative fuels etc but giving one class of cars such an inherently huge advantage was stupid, even more stupid was the fact that the FIA clearly got used for short term gain by Seat. I'd love to see all the Volkswagen Group companies effectively banned from FIA competition for a period of time in a similar way to which Michelin was (wrongfully) booted from F1 and the WRC.

Now of course I don't think that's the right thing to do but personally I'd love to see it happen. This relationship was incredibly one sided and only really beneficial to one side and I'd love to see the VW Group taught a lesson here.

[BDunnell]

I'll concede that for sure :) The whole diseasel vs petrol car thing was a joke from the start. I'm all for alternative fuels etc but giving one class of cars such an inherently huge advantage was stupid, even more stupid was the fact that the FIA clearly got used for short term gain by Seat. I'd love to see all the Volkswagen Group companies effectively banned from FIA competition for a period of time in a similar way to which Michelin was (wrongfully) booted from F1 and the WRC.

Now of course I don't think that's the right thing to do but personally I'd love to see it happen. This relationship was incredibly one sided and only really beneficial to one side and I'd love to see the VW Group taught a lesson here.

And we could go on. Don't forget that the FIA allowed Chevrolet to deviate from the basic S2000 touring car tech regs as followed by other manufacturers when the Lacetti proved desperately unsuccessful (and, presumably, when Chevy threatened to pull out or similar). They were able to alter the car and, hey presto, it became competitive. It shouldn't really have been.

[AndyRAC]

I know I've stated many times but, a World Championship shouldn't have 'gimmicks' like success ballast. If a team dominates - tough. I hate artificially forced closed racing - the same as the running order on Gravel rallies - basically handicapping the series leader. This isn't the WWE - it's meant to be a serious Motorsport.
I do agree however that the FiA took their eye off the WTCC (and WRC) during the reign of Max - both series need new rules, regs and plenty of new Manufacturers. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done.

[BDunnell]

If a team dominates - tough.

I agree, though in the name of the racing it's therefore imperative that the technical regulations be as tight as possible, avoiding any loopholes that can be exploited. I don't care about touring car racing being an arena for exciting technical innovation. I simply want the racing to be close and exciting.

[AndyRAC]

I agree, though in the name of the racing it's therefore imperative that the technical regulations be as tight as possible, avoiding any loopholes that can be exploited. I don't care about touring car racing being an arena for exciting technical innovation. I simply want the racing to be close and exciting.

I quite agree - too many series are after technical innovation - that means money. That should be left to F1 and maybe Sportscars. Everything else should be mainly about the sport.

[Daniel]

Unfortunately, this is easier said than done.

That's a cliche. The only reason you, I or Ben couldn't have regulated the WRC or WTCC better is that we're not in power, no reason other than that. I don't think regulating the WRC would have been very difficult. I'll admit to not following the WTCC in as much detail as I do the WRC but it sounds like the same crap with a different series. At least Seat had the luxury of the FIA bending backwards to help them. No team in the WRC ever got that luxury :mark: I think in the WRC the benefits were all for the organisers of poxy Middle East/Med rallies :rolleyes:

I know someone's going to complain about talk of the WRC in the TC forum but this is all related IMHO.

[Daniel]

I agree, though in the name of the racing it's therefore imperative that the technical regulations be as tight as possible, avoiding any loopholes that can be exploited. I don't care about touring car racing being an arena for exciting technical innovation. I simply want the racing to be close and exciting.
I think you're right and wrong.

You're wrong in that during the (you can go to sleep now Ben :p ) supertourer era the cars were rather technologically advanced and the racing was great. Ditto with the WRC from the start of the WRCar era till about 2003-2004. But the problem with both is that the both supertourers and WRCars were allowed to run out of control and self destruct rather than having the regs changed about to keep things under control.

[BDunnell]

I think you're right and wrong.

You're wrong in that during the (you can go to sleep now Ben :p ) supertourer era the cars were rather technologically advanced and the racing was great. Ditto with the WRC from the start of the WRCar era till about 2003-2004. But the problem with both is that the both supertourers and WRCars were allowed to run out of control and self destruct rather than having the regs changed about to keep things under control.

Don't get me wrong, I greatly enjoyed Super Touring, but once wings and spoilers became all but compulsory in the BTCC in 1995 I would argue that most of the really exciting races were those either held in the wet or changeable conditions. Since then, I feel that the racing has generally been closer in all conditions. Whether one likes the way in which this comes about in any given series is up to the individual. The BTCC as it was in 1992 was fantastic, though no-one could really have predicted how BMW would spend a fortune on winning the title in 1993 and thereby open the floodgates to similarly massive investments by other manufacturers. Elsewhere, we have seen a similar pattern.

But there's no need to be too miserable, I feel. I'd far rather have the slightly disappointing WTCC of 2010 than the cheating-ridden WTCC of 1987, a series completely spoiled by constant post-race exclusions for alleged 'technical infringements', but which were rarely the most heinous being committed.

[AndyRAC]

I think you're right and wrong.

You're wrong in that during the (you can go to sleep now Ben :p ) supertourer era the cars were rather technologically advanced and the racing was great. Ditto with the WRC from the start of the WRCar era till about 2003-2004. But the problem with both is that the both supertourers and WRCars were allowed to run out of control and self destruct rather than having the regs changed about to keep things under control.

The sad thing is, that with both series, the warning signs were there. Unfortunately, nothing was done to rectify the problems - and voila. Both dead, or dying.....

[Daniel]

Exactly and this is not just the gift of hindsight. The problems with both series were blatantly obvious for all but the most idiotic of us :)