Begrudgingly, Danica comes back to Indy Car

[Scotty G.]

DP's sad comment tonight:

"Its a bummer I have to leave now, since I am starting to get the hang of it (really???) :p but I have to do the Indy Cars and I'll be back in June".


If these are her true feelings, she should just quit Indy Cars now and be done with it. Its obvious GoDaddy could care less about Indy Cars (except maybe for Indy) and DP has now gotten a taste of the "big time" in NASCAR and wants her "brand" to keep growing and her "star" to continue to flicker.

Her heart is not going to be into this Indy Car stuff anymore. Especially once Indy is over.

I don't know how iron-clad her contract with Andretti is, but I would not be at all surprised if she decides to end (or at least TRIES to end) her Indy Car career sometime in June and concentrate full-time on her backmarker Nationwide career.

If anyone thinks she is going to be into this Indy Car stuff anymore, they are fooling themselves.

Just another good reason for JR Hildebrand to stay with Andretti's team and not go anywhere else. He knows what is likely going to happen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Scott, that is assuming JR Motorsports will want to put up with this sideshow. I am sure if GoDaddy keeps shovelling large sums of money their way, she can come back to NASCAR, but I am thinking some of the forumers are right in stating just the opposite is true, in that she realizes she cant afford to look THAT bad for YEARS and lose all the rep. she has. The skeptics like myself and then of course, the people whose opinions who really count (the media) might just rip her apart. Her lack of speed in qualifying says to me she hasn't a clue on how to get that car going fast.

[Lousada]

Scott, that is assuming JR Motorsports will want to put up with this sideshow. I am sure if GoDaddy keeps shovelling large sums of money their way, she can come back to NASCAR, but I am thinking some of the forumers are right in stating just the opposite is true, in that she realizes she cant afford to look THAT bad for YEARS and lose all the rep. she has. The skeptics like myself and then of course, the people whose opinions who really count (the media) might just rip her apart. Her lack of speed in qualifying says to me she hasn't a clue on how to get that car going fast.

She is not a good racer, she HAS to go to Nascar if she wants her rep to survive. Penske/Ganassi will dominate Indycar at least until the new car comes. Being best of the rest is not going to cut it any longer. In Nascar they will give her another year to build something up.
If she fails, she can come back to the brand new Indycar and have another go. And if she succeeds... well, better throw your TV out of the window because it will be Danica time every hour every day :p

[FormerFF]

if GoDaddy finds her presence in NASCAR aligns with their promotional needs, then they'll fund her regardless of her results. After all, Anna Kournikova had no problem keeping her sponsors despite her lack of results.

[SoCalPVguy]

Begrudgingly, Danica comes back to Indy Car...

Don't worry its only temporary

[SarahFan]

it will certainly be interesting to see how the brand reacts after the first 3 or 4 races TV#'s are in

[Jag_Warrior]

And if she succeeds... well, better throw your TV out of the window because it will be Danica time every hour every day :p

I think Paris Hilton has a better chance of getting a PhD in Physics from M.I.T. than Danica does of being (truly) successful in NASCAR Sprint Cup. And Paris Hilton spells physics with an "f", so...

Course with that said, we all know that success in Danica World isn't the same as success in the real world. Staying on the lead lap or cracking the Top 20, when 23 other cars crash out in the Big One, would be seen in Danica World as "success". :bounce:

And what if the next Indy car isn't designed for foot-to-the-floor, glued-to-the-track style racing? Both Danica and Marco might be in trouble then! :D

[DanicaFan]

Scotty G, I wish you would quit making a daily bash thread about Danica. Give it up already! We know you dont like her but we dont need a new thread about how you dont like her. I think the mods need to clean these up maybe, its getting out of hand. You post more negative threads than I post positive threads. :mad:

And dont worry, Danica will do just fine in Indycar, the girl is an awesome driver and she will start where she left in Indycar and thats at the top. :)

[px400r]

And dont worry, Danica will do just fine in Indycar, the girl is an awesome driver and she will start where she left in Indycar and thats at the top. :)

Yeah, but where will she end up?

[DanicaFan]

Yeah, but where will she end up?

On top of the points championship. :)

[px400r]

On top of the points championship. :)

DF, I admire your perseverance.

But we all know her "celebrity" is not based on her performance and ability (or lack thereof).

[TURN3]

Scotty G, I wish you would quit making a daily bash thread about Danica. Give it up already! We know you dont like her but we dont need a new thread about how you dont like her. I think the mods need to clean these up maybe, its getting out of hand. You post more negative threads than I post positive threads. :mad:

And dont worry, Danica will do just fine in Indycar, the girl is an awesome driver and she will start where she left in Indycar and thats at the top. :)

A lot of nerve of you to cry about somebody posting about Danica too frequently. Does it annoy you that most of the people posting on forum across the net can't stand her? You don't want to see negative threads everyday, quit posting your threads! I'd say they are mostly responsible for firing everybody around here up with comments like..."she'll end up where she started...". DF, there isn't anything wrong with being a fan but c'mon...she sucks. Every timesheet, every year, all the time. The only chance she has of finishing well is if strategy plays into her hands. She's just not fast, and she has zero talent.

[bblocker68]

DF and Scotty need a cage match, lol. Looking forward to seeing what happens next.

I'll be selling popcorn :)

[anthonyvop]

Danica will go wherever the check with the most zeros tells her to go.

If when NASCAR looks at the numbers and they believe she is profitable for their series she will be a full time Sprint Cup driver soon.











And I don't blame her one bit.

[TURN3]

Danica will go wherever the check with the most zeros tells her to go.

If when NASCAR looks at the numbers and they believe she is profitable for their series she will be a full time Sprint Cup driver soon.











And I don't blame her one bit.

I wouldn't blame her one bit either, we do live in a society of capitalism afterall. Lets be real though, Danica in Sprint Cup? C'mon. She's going to need at least another full year of Nationwide simply to confirm what any real racing eye can already tell...that she sucks. After another year of floundering around there isn't a Cup team out there that will take her. She'll be at the last marketing step. Where else is there to go after that? A career lacking results will suddenly be left with nowhere else to hide and I doubt any Cup team will want to fall from that step.

It is going to be fun making fun of her next 3 Indy races, all on road courses. By the time she gets to go run another Nationwide race she'll have to qual on speed. When she misses a few of those races we'll see how fast the polish starts to fade with the media. Most of us already see the past the primer coat.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Not to be cast in the same category as DF :p : , but Danica is a competent oval driver. I'm still waiting for some of you to explain how, year after year, she finishes in the top half of the field points wise. You can blow off one year as a fluke, but not all of them. I'm making no claim that she is in the very top group of IRL drivers. She is not awful though and regularly does better than some who you would think could beat her. As for her results in the tin tops, anyone care to look up the first 10 race results for, oh say, JPM, Hornish, or even AJA?

JPM looked a lot better. By the time he had his fourth Cup start of his first full season, he was at Atlanta and was not only running on the lead lap but he was running as fast as the leaders for large portions of the race while displaying car control of the highest order.

Now...Danica. Good on ovals. I wont dispute she has done alright ovals, but the factors for some of those finishes even so will invite debate. Would she have that success without Tony Kanaan's great setup skills being a team asset? Would she have had that win or other good finishes if she didn't have good strategy? Other drivers have similar assets at their disposal, but until I see Danica out dueling another driver lap after lap, will I declare her a racer. AS for the sometimes tepid performances on road courses, well it shows that for about 5 races a year, she will just try to hang tough. Sometimes she does ok...a lot of times she is way off the pace. If this IRL was as deep as the CART fields of the early 90's, she would be lucky to see the top 10....

She is proficient behind the wheel of an Indycar. I wont put her in the Milka Duno sideshow, and she hasn't put too many feet wrong in her driving the last 3 or 4 yers, but nor has she proven to me she is worthy of all the fuss either.

[px400r]

Not to be cast in the same category as DF :p : , but Danica is a competent oval driver. I'm still waiting for some of you to explain how, year after year, she finishes in the top half of the field points wise. You can blow off one year as a fluke, but not all of them. I'm making no claim that she is in the very top group of IRL drivers. She is not awful though and regularly does better than some who you would think could beat her. As for her results in the tin tops, anyone care to look up the first 10 race results for, oh say, JPM, Hornish, or even AJA?

She runs in races quite well, especially on the ovals. She stays out of trouble and her team usually manages the race to keep her in the top half. Do that throughout the year, and you collect a lot of points.

But rarely is she a threat to win, let alone run at the very front.

[anthonyvop]

Not to be cast in the same category as DF :p : , but Danica is a competent oval driver. I'm still waiting for some of you to explain how, year after year, she finishes in the top half of the field points wise.


She drives for a top team.
She got a weight break.
She got "special" parts.

[Easy Drifter]

From what I have seen Danica on an oval is quite quick if the car is set up to suit her. If the car doesn't suit, her whining to the pits is useless as she cannot properly describe the problem. If her engineer can figure it out from data aquisition or observation they can get her back up to speed.
The next problem is she will not run close to people for more than a couple of laps. If she does not suceed in passing she drops away.
On road courses she seems to be getting worse instead of better.
Due to our TV coverage here I did not see the last 2 Nationwide races.
But as I have said Danica drives a race car and often quickly.
But she is not a racing driver.
There is a difference.

[Mark in Oshawa]

From what I have seen Danica on an oval is quite quick if the car is set up to suit her. If the car doesn't suit, her whining to the pits is useless as she cannot properly describe the problem. If her engineer can figure it out from data aquisition or observation they can get her back up to speed.
The next problem is she will not run close to people for more than a couple of laps. If she does not suceed in passing she drops away.
On road courses she seems to be getting worse instead of better.
Due to our TV coverage here I did not see the last 2 Nationwide races.
But as I have said Danica drives a race car and often quickly.
But she is not a racing driver.
There is a difference.

Now Drifter, stop using logic to explain why she is competant but not a racer. WE cant have logic!!!

[EagleEye]

Scotty G, I wish you would quit making a daily bash thread about Danica. Give it up already! We know you dont like her but we dont need a new thread about how you dont like her. I think the mods need to clean these up maybe, its getting out of hand. You post more negative threads than I post positive threads. :mad:

And dont worry, Danica will do just fine in Indycar, the girl is an awesome driver and she will start where she left in Indycar and thats at the top. :)

Scotty G posted Danica's own comments, and you turn on him? What?

I have said Danica can drive, but she is far from the champion you make her out to be. She will start where she left off, seventh in points, and farther back at least until they get to an oval. Again, it is great you are a fan, but maybe try sticking to the facts, and not your blind obsession in rating her. I pointed out last year that her own peers did not rate her at all in the top ten, and they would know best.

NASCAR is licking their chops, because she is better at marketing than she is driving...a fact that is proven via one win, 100 commercials.

She does have an out in her contract and since the IRL has yet to resolve the DTV/Versus issue. The ratings HAVE to move up in order for the series to make it, she is on the fast track to NASCAR.

If she spent more time looking at data, and less planning her next interview, she would be a decent driver.

What are the mods to do. Ban those who have a different opinion than yours? Ban those who state facts, over your opinions?

Relax...root for your girl, but please review the facts. You picked her to win every race last year. Every race! You were 0-fer, while others at least picked one or two winners. Earth to D-fan...she will not win every race, nor will she compete for the win in every race. Root for her, cheer for her, but please face reality...she will not win any of the first three races.

[Mark in Oshawa]

DanicaFan...say what you like. I may not agree with you, but I am done with this board/forum if they ever banned you for being a fan.

I am never going to be a Danica Patrick fan, but I wont knock you for being one really....I just may tease and torment you on occasion...lol

[anthonyvop]

Andretti is not a top team. Best of the rest perhaps.

They were a top team until last year. They probably still are a top team but Kanaan suffered some real bad luck. Their other drivers are 2nd tier at best.


Your operative word is "got". That was a several years ago. Re read my post paying particular attention to where I reference the body (years) of her work and not just one season.

She still has a weight advantage. The IRL has claimed to address the issue but in fact they have not. Until they have a weight rule like every other series it will always demand an asterisk by here name.


Ditto my second comment above.
She had special parts that were unknown until somebody who wasn't suppose to know found out.
Why should we believe that it is not happening now?

[NickFalzone]

That whole power-steering thing that Danica and I think Manning got for a few road/street course races in 2007ish still doesn't sit well with me. I've heard arguments from IRL management that it didn't affect performance in any way, but I find that hard to believe. I think in 2007 Danica had some stellar road course results, some top 3 qualifying, and I believe a podium at Belle Isle. There's a time to test new parts: a TESTING session. Using them during qualifying/racing without other teams having them just does not seem right. Supposedly, the other teams signed off the 2 or 3 drivers that did this equipment testing, but who knows whether they were pressured to do so by the league. I agree, this made me suspicious that other things have gone on behind the scenes that have been less than honest. While I do not dislike Danica as a racer and think she is fairly talented (tho very overrated) something also does not feel right to me about the Motegi win. Yes, her first win, on fuel, and on an oval, does seem about right. But just the timing of it, right after unification, etc... I don't know, it's a business after all and you can never be too sure of how much is business and how much is fair competition.

[DanicaFan]

DanicaFan...say what you like. I may not agree with you, but I am done with this board/forum if they ever banned you for being a fan.

I am never going to be a Danica Patrick fan, but I wont knock you for being one really....I just may tease and torment you on occasion...lol

Thanks for your support Mark. :)

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)

[Scotty G.]

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)


Sorry DP Fan, but what in her 2 months of racing in 2010 has been "positive"?

She has sucked out loud in NASCAR. She was bad in testing in Indy Car at Barber.

And she seems distraught (using her OWN WORDS) that she has to quit racing in NASCAR and is contracturally obligated to go back to Indy Car until June.

Those are the unfortunate facts.

She hasn't EARNED anything positive from me this year.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Thanks for your support Mark. :)

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)

Well this free speech thing is a double edged sword. Scott's points are not without some merit.

Danica hasn't done as well in NASCAR as you would hope for, and while we know you think as a total fan, logic and the cynics among us understand that her debut wasn't what you would hope for surely.

He has his right to his opinion. On some things I happen to agree with Scott, but there is some I have quarrelled with him over too. Doesn't make his opinion any less valid. IT is, after all, just an opinion, like mine is or Garyshell's is, or Jag's or whoever.

You boosterism and love for Ms. Patrick is your territory, and I try not attack you while disagreeing with some of your statments. I think Scott is doing the same. Gotta put up with people you don't agree with, because life would be dull if we all thought the same way.

[garyshell]

Thanks for your support Mark. :)

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)


You boosterism and love for Ms. Patrick is your territory, and I try not attack you while disagreeing with some of your statments. I think Scott is doing the same. Gotta put up with people you don't agree with, because life would be dull if we all thought the same way.

Oh please Mark, enough with the "I'm OK. You're OK" politically correctness.

Danicafan, grow a pair.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

Oh please Mark, enough with the "I'm OK. You're OK" politically correctness.

Danicfan, grow a pair.

Gary
Now Gary, I am just pointing out he has to take his lumps in a polite fashion. It is MY turn to be nice this week.....next week he may annoy the hell out of me and I will tear a strip off him again....

[px400r]

Andretti is not a top team. Best of the rest perhaps.


She started driving for AGR in 2007 when they were still one of the top teams. At that time, she already had two seasons of competition.

So other than consistency and a lone win, what does she have to show?

By contrast, Justin Wilson has (in two years of IRL competition) finished 11th and 9th in the points. Patrick finished 6th and 5th in those two years.

Who would you rather have drive for you?

[px400r]

Thanks for your support Mark. :)

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)

Face it DF, fans of DP will always be vastly outnumbered by her detractors. Any DP related post of yours will be like honey to flies.

[beachbum]

She started driving for AGR in 2007 when they were still one of the top teams. At that time, she already had two seasons of competition.

So other than consistency and a lone win, what does she have to show?

By contrast, Justin Wilson has (in two years of IRL competition) finished 11th and 9th in the points. Patrick finished 6th and 5th in those two years.

Who would you rather have drive for you?Wilson - not contest. He has the potential to win, even in a small single car team. He is a racer.

In DP's whole career, there are only 2 significant finishes. One win against a very small field in a fuel economy race where only 3 drivers had a shot to win after the last stop and the team took a gamble to run her very lean as she wasn't quick enough to run up front. (even then, she almost got lapped by the leaders). A second place at the FF Festival when most of the top 10 crashed or broke. Her "win" in a celebrity race wasn't even a win as first overall was a celebrity (and DP wasn't at the time). Other than that, not much. Of course the DP fans will trot out the 5th place points, but running around mid pack by yourself in a pretty good car, not racing anyone, and just bringing it home every time will get you more points that a driver who races people, and sometimes makes mistakes.

Danica is becoming so yesterday.

[Blancvino]

Thanks for your support Mark. :)

But look around and see Scotty G's posts about Danica. They are all in a negative light, nothing positive. Thats why I got upset. No need to post everything negative. If you dont like her, stop posting about her, pretty simple really. ;)

Will you stop cheer leading too? Goose, gander analogy.

[px400r]

There's a lot to be said for just running around and staying out of trouble. Vasser got his lone CART title mostly that way. (He says while ducking. :p ) My main point is that DP is neither terrible nor great. Her detractors make claims about her lack of success and ability that can not be supported by the facts. While her fans, mostly DF here, are wildly over optimistic about her true ability and chance for future race wins. She's a middle of the road driver, better than just a field filler but not championship material either.

We should all be glad she's there, as she brings more attention and exposure to Indycars than all of the rest of the drivers in the field put together. When was the last time you saw ANY other IRL driver featured in a commercial? If she goes to NASCAR, I for one will miss that.

I think the point detractors are making is that she hasn't done anything with the opportunities she's had. In her Indy Car career, she has driven for top teams with the resources to win. IMO, she has become a field filler simply because she has not shown the speed to be (at the very least) a factor in the race.

As for the attention, she gets way more than her share. I don't believe Indy Car has benefitted from her over exposure. I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who know of her but is completely clueless about Indy Cars.

And what turns me off when watching Indy Car races is the attention lavished on her when she's running in the back of the field while the drivers at the front are ignored.

[methanolHuffer]

I think she is a real racing driver. Not so much a spectacular one. As a guy she would've gone the way of Billy Boat or Jimmy Kite.

She has been given every opportunity to do better than she has. Heck, even a Penske ride wouldn't guarantee a win.

[Lee Roy]

I think that Danica should get a Restraining Order for some of the people in this thread. Some of them could be arguably considered "stalkers".

[TURN3]

Her detractors make claims about her lack of success and ability that can not be supported by the facts.

Stop Starter! Are you serious? Her lack of success can't be supported by facts? Clearly you must have mispoke or else forum members will take a week to post all the facts, stats, figures, and analysis showing her lack of success. There is so much evidence it would take that long, literally.

The fact is she has the ability to hold her foot down and turn left, we all know that. What happens when you throw a track in there where she has to lift and skillfully manipulate the car? What happens if we make an Indycar formula like the 90's and before where you have 900hp instead of 600hp and the cars aren't glued to the ground? Sorry but you can litterally put anybody in her AA car and accomplish her speeds. Can that anybody keep it off the wall or out of other peoples problems like she does? I guess that depends on if you're trying to win or just ride around and collect points. Literally, anybody can do that...but that's not what racers do. Danica has zero special talent or skill. What she does, anybody can do in that machine.

[SarahFan]

Oh please Mark, enough with the "I'm OK. You're OK" politically correctness.

Danicafan, grow a pair.

Gary


now thats comedy........you suggesting to someone else to grow a pair....


awesome!

[SoCalPVguy]

Originally Posted by Starter http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=758755#post758755)
Her detractors make claims about her lack of success and ability that can not be supported by the facts.

Sorry my friend but you made a typo (above)... you obviously meant to write...

"Her detractors make claims about her lack of success and ability that can be supported by the facts".

There, that's better... Glad to help !!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is interesting. 5 or so years after she surfaced in the IRL, she still invites controversay. I think the reason being of course is most hard core, racing fans know that the hype hasn't matched the results, and hasn't a chance of it unless she won the Indy 500 and then the championship with multiple wins. Heck, with the hype she has surrounding her, even that might not be enough.

That in itself is the real issue. I have always been supportive of women in racing. My Facebook membership involves being a supporter of Chrissy Wallace, Alison MacLeod (a Canadian girl running USAC midgets), and local road racer Ashley Taws (she was running in the Canadian Formula Ford series in the top 5 but had a car accident on the road that pretty much did in her career). I am a big fan of the effort Sarah Fisher has put in to stay in the sport. I have no problem with the idea of a woman winning races. So why does Danica bother me? Why does Milka Duno bother me?

It isn't looks, for most of the women in racing are good looking ladies. Danica isn't the only woman in racing to look sexy outside the track. No....it is a culimination of force fed hype, and manipulation in this case by the racer herself. To be a "Racer" I defined it earlier. "Racers" would eat dirt to do it, they love the battle on track, and ask for respect for efforts on the track. Danica does everything for a pay check, which is fine except you and I both will get the impression she would go model or do something else rather than race cars if the pay check wasn't there. I cant picture Danica racing at a local oval if she hadn't made it. She has asked for respect on the track, but never had given it, nor has she ever once publically spoken about how she messed up after an accident. There has never been humility, only a sense of entitlement when she has stomped out of her car to confront the other driver.

Her results haven't matched the hype, but to her credit, she has a 5th place points finish last year. That said, if this is 92, and the quality of people racing in Indycars that year would indicate that her passive approach wouldn't work. She would be lucky to sniff 12th in points. Danica has never taken a lead and held onto it like an angry dog protecting its' steak bone. Katharnine Legge won 2 Atlantic races on the way up, including one spectacular battle back from 3rd to take the lead at Edmonton at her first trip there. She RACED for that win, and backed it up with another. Danica's one win counts sure, but no one in racing has ever really thought she has ever raced for a finish. With the weak and sometimes stupid driving we see in today's IRL, staying out of trouble will get you decent finishes. The thing is, passive racing is boring racing, and what she is doing is EVERYTHING that is wrong with the current IRL......

[SarahFan]

It is interesting. 5 or so years after she surfaced in the IRL, she still invites controversay. I think the reason being of course is most hard core, racing fans know that the hype hasn't matched the results, ....

I think its because hardcore fans who have followed the sport since the mid nineties (or before)....know that had the split never happened she would have never made it to the bigs.....

ever time she straps in we are reminded just how much the sport has suffered...

*but she does look good in a bikini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQ2wAVaMRA

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think its because hardcore fans who have followed the sport since the mid nineties (or before)....know that had the split never happened she would have never made it to the bigs.....

ever time she straps in we are reminded just how much the sport has suffered...

*but she does look good in a bikini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQ2wAVaMRA

You can say that Ken. I wont disagree with you. Would she have a ride in the IRL if Tony George never thought of it and we were talking about just the united Indycar family under CART (or any other leadership)? Likely not..but I wouldn't say never. Bobby Rahal gave her that chance and while I think she wasn't up to the job, he gave her the ride for reasons that never have been explored. I just know she left there at first opportunity and THAT left a bad taste in my mouth because Rahal Letterman wasn't a bad team when she left. They had won a Indy 500...and yet Danica jumped ship...

[Mark in Oshawa]

OK, here's my challenge to you. I'm too busy (read lazy) to do it myself. Take the last 4 years and average the year end final points position of all drivers with full season rides. Let's see where she falls on that list.

If she's below 50% on the list I own you six cold ones of your choice.

Starter, I think you have beer but THAT is the problem. Danica's being in the top 50% shows that not racing people is rewarded. It may mean points, but no one goes to the track to see Danica have a good point's day....

[ykiki]

OK, here's my challenge to you. I'm too busy (read lazy) to do it myself. Take the last 4 years and average the year end final points position of all drivers with full season rides. Let's see where she falls on that list.

If she's below 50% on the list I owe you six cold ones of your choice.

50%??? We're now calling mid-pack a successful career? :(

[TURN3]

OK, here's my challenge to you. I'm too busy (read lazy) to do it myself. Take the last 4 years and average the year end final points position of all drivers with full season rides. Let's see where she falls on that list.

If she's below 50% on the list I owe you six cold ones of your choice.

I appreciate your challenge and like you, if I can find the time I certainly will. I'd be curious. But here is a flaw in that analysis. Regardless if she's 3rd or say 19th, I don't believe the question you pose says anything about how good she is. You can't analyze her based on a points system, you can only analyze her finish results that way. Those results don't account for quality of equipment, slow times, lack of passes. Heck she could theoretically finish 5th or 6th in a given race and be a lap or 2 down. You know what I mean, I'm sure. We all can go back and forth and back and forth and manipulate stats to make a point. But I would simply point to the time sheets week in and week out. Practice after practice, qualifying run after qualifying run, she's off pace unless her engineers nail a setup on a track she just keeps the hammer down.

I would expect your argument to be that we have a points system that determines the champion...etc. Yes I know. But as asked earlier in the thread, Danica finishing ahead of drivers like Justin Wilson, Tony Kanaan, etc. in those points standings in no way shape or form means she's a better driver than are.

Without going into time consuming research...answer me this. You have a fully funded race team and can hire any driver, they are all free agents and you have your pick (i.e. Chip or Roger basically). Your goal is to win the championship year in and year out...when you get to Danica in the list of drivers, let us know. She wouldn't show up in my top 20 before guys like Franchitti, Dixon, Briscoe, Power, CastratedNeves, TK, RHR, PT, Wilson, Rahal, etc. etc. etc. If you're looking to be successful, you're looking a long way down the line before she becomes an option.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I'm looking for my quote where I said "successful career". Can you help me find it? ;) I have said "competant journeyman driver" in other posts. She runs in the top half of the field most races. She brings the car home in one piece more often than not. There are a number of good old boys in that other series who've done no better. No one disses them.

On the other hand, being paid a whole bunch of money to drive race cars for several years would constitute a "successful career" in some peoples minds. You may not like her tactics but she has had paying rides while drivers some would say are much better than her are walking the streets looking. She quite obviously has mastered the economics and dynamics of Indycar racing as it is today.

You are on the money there Starter. Your point tho just proves mine this is what is A)wrong with the IRL that driving like this can get you to 5th in points and B)I have no real reason to cheer for Danica, and C) there is no justification for the the hype. A guy in NASCAR crusing around like Elliot Sadler may not even merit a mention in a broadcast, and yet he is a mid pack guy. Yet we come to the average ESPN/ABC broadcast with Danica, and they are all over her like white on rice. Being competant and being a woman shouldn't justify any of this......this coverage is NOT doing her any favours with people who have grown up fans of racing, yet she encourages it and it is making HER rich. It is however turning large numbers off the sport.

If people think Danica is a boon to the IRL, and would be a loss if she is gone to NASCAR, think again. In the midst of all the promotion Danica has been given in the last 5 years, the ratings have gone south and the network support for the IRL has been lost despite unification. This isnt' all DP's doing, but I suspect if you polled people who followed the OW scene and don't now, The lousy broadcasts over the years would be a factor? What makes a lousy broadcast? Ignoring the reality on the track....

Danicamania has not drawn NEW support to the IRL. The numbers DON'T lie.....Now she makes statements she is "Sad" to be leaving NASCAR. Gee Danica, don't come back on our account, we will muddle on without you....

[px400r]

On the other hand, being paid a whole bunch of money to drive race cars for several years would constitute a "successful career" in some peoples minds. You may not like her tactics but she has had paying rides while drivers some would say are much better than her are walking the streets looking. She quite obviously has mastered the economics and dynamics of Indycar racing as it is today.

That says it all about the sad state of Indy Car racing...

[Mark in Oshawa]

That says it all about the sad state of Indy Car racing...

It does...but that by itself isn't her fault. I have never faulted her getting paid to drive. I fault the idiots in the production truck at the race track for deciding we need 10 % mandatory Danica content. When I watch the Indy 500, I know I will know what Danica has done probably at least every 10 to 15 laps. They will always mention how she is making out, who she is running with, how her last pit stop went, and whether she has a hope. Funny, do they give Tomas Scheketer that attention? Will Paul Tracy even merit that much coverage? How about Tony Kanaan? Would you like to pull out last year's 500 and see that? No....that would be proving my point, and you didn't quibble with that.

Just remember tho, her getting a sponsor and making a living in this sport is ok. What isn't ok is the institutional inertia and emotional investement the people running and broadcasting the sport seemed to have made in making her a star, and her talent, as you and I have both pointed out doesn't justify it. The fact she gets paid to race means team owners see the business as a business, and hide their inner racer at times.....

I do know this much. You never once saw any serious report that she was going to Chip or Roger. It was all idle speculation. At least two team owners in the garage hire drivers who want to RACE and win....

[beachbum]

There is one significant downside to this "experiment" that seems to be overlooked. Danica hasn't been competitive in NASCAR. In fact, she wasn't fast enough to qualify at the last 2 Nationwide races and got in on last years points. Yet she has won a race in the IRL and finished 5th in points. What does that say to the average race fan about the quality of racing in the IRL? Sure it is comparing apples and pears, but the more casual fan doesn't make such a distinction.

Danica' is proving a very poor person to promote the IRL. When this all started, my opinion was it would either be a big plus for the IRL or a huge negative. If she shows up in June at New Hampshire as expected with much fanfare and promotion and then isn't fast enough to qualify, it really is going to reflect badly on the IRL. Her performance (or lack of) just reinforces the opinion of the NASCAR diehards that they have the best drivers in the world.

[SoCalPVguy]

That says it all about the sad state of Indy Car racing...

man you said it !!!!!!!!

The fact that this giant thread is basically about Anna Kournakova, er, uh, I mean, Danica - a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off shows just how weak the sport is.

My challenge to you Starter and anyone else who cares to take it ........
WHO WAS BETTER ????

Choice 1: Danica - a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off.

Choice 2: Jim McElreath- a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off (Inaugural California 500).

I'll take Jim but he was butt ugly in a bikini, I'll bet !!!! That's all DP and her "brand" or is that tramp stamp - has going for her.

SoCal OUT !!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

man you said it !!!!!!!!

The fact that this giant thread is basically about Anna Kournakova, er, uh, I mean, Danica - a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off shows just how weak the sport is.

My challenge to you Starter and anyone else who cares to take it ........
WHO WAS BETTER ????

Choice 1: Danica - a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off.

Choice 2: Jim McElreath- a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off (Inaugural California 500).

I'll take Jim but he was butt ugly in a bikini, I'll bet !!!! That's all DP and her "brand" or is that tramp stamp - has going for her.

SoCal OUT !!!

SoCal, I will say McElereath based on the fact I don't know much about him but know Danica's limitiations are evident.

[Mark in Oshawa]

There is one significant downside to this "experiment" that seems to be overlooked. Danica hasn't been competitive in NASCAR. In fact, she wasn't fast enough to qualify at the last 2 Nationwide races and got in on last years points. Yet she has won a race in the IRL and finished 5th in points. What does that say to the average race fan about the quality of racing in the IRL? Sure it is comparing apples and pears, but the more casual fan doesn't make such a distinction.

Danica' is proving a very poor person to promote the IRL. When this all started, my opinion was it would either be a big plus for the IRL or a huge negative. If she shows up in June at New Hampshire as expected with much fanfare and promotion and then isn't fast enough to qualify, it really is going to reflect badly on the IRL. Her performance (or lack of) just reinforces the opinion of the NASCAR diehards that they have the best drivers in the world.

NASCAR people have thougth that going back to Robby Gordon coming south. They thought that when Lil Al toyed with NASCAR and they thought that when Dario had to leave the series. Danica they actually are guillable enough to think might have something.....

I agree, her failing in NASCAR doesn't help the IRL and it is why I was a little leary of her going in the first place.

[Easy Drifter]

What happens to the "Brand" if Simona starts beating the "Brand" regularly? Could easily happen on the road courses especially.

[downtowndeco]

2006 9th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 5th Finished highest on her team.

6.75 average. Lets say 7th. Easily in the top 1/3 of the field.

Very decent & improving each year.

Starter, I gotta agree with you. She's a very decent, journeyman racer. She brings the car home consistantly in one piece. Where all of this animosity comes from I have no idea. Let's just say it does not reflect kindly on those slinging the mud though.

Here's to a 500 win for Danica in 2010.


OK, here's my challenge to you. I'm too busy (read lazy) to do it myself. Take the last 4 years and average the year end final points position of all drivers with full season rides. Let's see where she falls on that list.

If she's below 50% on the list I owe you six cold ones of your choice.

[Scotty G.]

1. I think its because hardcore fans who have followed the sport since the mid nineties (or before)....know that had the split never happened she would have never made it to the bigs.....


2. *but she does look good in a bikini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQ2wAVaMRA


1. I COMPLETEY disagree with that statement. In the early 90's, guys like King Hiro, Carlos Guerrero, Eliseo Salazar and Dean Hall were buying their way into Indy Car rides. There were plenty of lower talent drivers in the sport. Danica would have eventually had Argent buy her way into a Indy Car ride (likely with Rahal), whether there ever had been "a split" or not.

And the overincessent hype would have still flowed, whether there was "a split" or not.


2. Don't agree with that either. She is VASTLY overrated as a "hottie". 5 foot girls, with no curves and a rotten attitude, don't "do much" for me. ;)

[beachbum]

2006 9th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 5th Finished highest on her team.
Facts don't lie. But now go back and get the average starting position for the same years, dropping out any races where there wasn't a regular qualifying session. That tells a whole different story. If you really want to get tedious, pull up the timing and scoring lap charts and record how many on track passes she made that weren't because a) someone pitted or b) someone crashed or had a problem. She did pass people on track, just not as many as you might think.

As another poster pointed out, it isn't the average performance that riles fans, but the hype and attitude. If you read her PR, she is a regular contender for wins and has always run at the front. In reality, she is a fairly fast driver, but IMHO isn't much of a racer. Racing doesn't seem to be a passion, but a means to gain celebrity. In one of her very early interviews in England, she even stated her goal was to be a racing celebrity. Her attitude is beyond arrogant and it is wearing thin.

So how does she get good points results? Most of her good points results are on ovals, when her normal mode is to hug the bottom and run by herself. If you followed her early years, almost no one would race her, especially side by side. She had a tendency to "wander" a bit. Eventually, a couple drivers found they could get her to back off by racing close and then she was a sitting duck for any car with similar speed. But as long as she runs decent speeds and doesn't race anyone, she will get good points results as she is in very good equipment that doesn't seem to ever break - at least for her.

[mileman]

man you said it !!!!!!!!

My challenge to you Starter and anyone else who cares to take it ........
WHO WAS BETTER ????

Choice 1: Danica - a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off.

Choice 2: Jim McElreath- a mid pack (maybe better maybe not) average racer, who one won lucky race on a fuel strategy gamble that paid off (Inaugural California 500).

SoCal OUT !!!

I actually would like to see Danica do well - and agree with Starter's analysis. But I would take Jim - mainly because I saw him race as far back as the early 60's. He finished 6th or better in 8 of 17 Indy 500's. (3rd in two of those.)

As for his "lone" win - I thought he also won at Phoenix. In addition, you may not want to count other "USAC Indy car" events of those days - but he won at Langhorne twice and Trenton once. (Trenton included "no-name" drivers like Andretti, Johncock, B. Unser, Rutherford, Foyt, Roger Ward...)

Yes - I would call him a mid-pack or better driver, but his finishes show him to have been competitive with some of the good ones. Nothing wrong with that.

[NickFalzone]

There is one significant downside to this "experiment" that seems to be overlooked. Danica hasn't been competitive in NASCAR. In fact, she wasn't fast enough to qualify at the last 2 Nationwide races and got in on last years points. Yet she has won a race in the IRL and finished 5th in points. What does that say to the average race fan about the quality of racing in the IRL? Sure it is comparing apples and pears, but the more casual fan doesn't make such a distinction.

Danica' is proving a very poor person to promote the IRL. When this all started, my opinion was it would either be a big plus for the IRL or a huge negative. If she shows up in June at New Hampshire as expected with much fanfare and promotion and then isn't fast enough to qualify, it really is going to reflect badly on the IRL. Her performance (or lack of) just reinforces the opinion of the NASCAR diehards that they have the best drivers in the world.

IMO it's "lose lose" for IndyCar. If she does fairly well in NASCAR, she will abandon IndyCar and she will be known simply as the female NASCAR driver. If she does poorly in NASCAR and retreats back to being an IndyCar-only driver, the IRL looks like a place for NASCAR rejects. I'm trying to think of a situation where it could benefit IRL, and it would actually be now, if she was getting decent results in NASCAR, while simultaneously promoting the IRL. But the long-term outlook is not good for the series, they can't win either way. (not that I think they should be using her as a crutch anyway).

[mileman]

So how does she get good points results? Most of her good points results are on ovals, when her normal mode is to hug the bottom and run by herself.

To say this is a strategy is to say all those guys behind her weren't trying very hard. If it was so easy - then more "mediocre" drivers would use the same strategy. It just doesn't compute.

Yes - she has done well on ovals. Her average finish was tied with Helio for 4th. On road/street courses, she was tied with Matos and Wheldon for 10th. In four road/street races head to head with PT, her average finish was actually slightly better. Go figure. She's the driver and he's the racer, but he's sitting on the sofa eating chocolates and tweeting.

All this aside - if Will Power had a full season last year with Penske, he would have won the championship long before Homestead.

[downtowndeco]

Did she run over your dog? Say something bad about your mother? Crash your favorite driver? Jesus man why the animosity towards her? Can't you just be glad that someone driving an Indycar is getting some press?

Does she deserve all of the press she's gotten? Probably not. But I don't see anyone here, even DF, claiming that she's the next Mario Andretti or AJ Foyt.
But she finishes races. She keeps her nose clean. Rarely does she make a PT assjack kind of move. And she's been moving up in the points every year. She's not bad. Not great, but not bad. That she beat the rest of her team last year and finished in front of 15 or so other drivers should be worth something. To not give her even that little bit of respect says more about you than it does about her.

Now I'm really kind of hoping she does win Indy this year. : )



Facts don't lie. But now go back and get the average starting position for the same years, dropping out any races where there wasn't a regular qualifying session. That tells a whole different story. If you really want to get tedious, pull up the timing and scoring lap charts and record how many on track passes she made that weren't because a) someone pitted or b) someone crashed or had a problem. She did pass people on track, just not as many as you might think.

As another poster pointed out, it isn't the average performance that riles fans, but the hype and attitude. If you read her PR, she is a regular contender for wins and has always run at the front. In reality, she is a fairly fast driver, but IMHO isn't much of a racer. Racing doesn't seem to be a passion, but a means to gain celebrity. In one of her very early interviews in England, she even stated her goal was to be a racing celebrity. Her attitude is beyond arrogant and it is wearing thin.

So how does she get good points results? Most of her good points results are on ovals, when her normal mode is to hug the bottom and run by herself. If you followed her early years, almost no one would race her, especially side by side. She had a tendency to "wander" a bit. Eventually, a couple drivers found they could get her to back off by racing close and then she was a sitting duck for any car with similar speed. But as long as she runs decent speeds and doesn't race anyone, she will get good points results as she is in very good equipment that doesn't seem to ever break - at least for her.

[TURN3]

To say this is a strategy is to say all those guys behind her weren't trying very hard. If it was so easy - then more "mediocre" drivers would use the same strategy. It just doesn't compute.

Not really. Even with AGR/AA's regression, they are still the 5th thru 8th best machines on any superspeedway. Danica will typically run 8th thru 12th on these track types (you can look at lap charts to verify). So whilst DP is riding around underachieving the equipment capability, you have guys like Rahal and Moreas and Carpenter driving like their tail is on fire trying to compete with the Penske and Ganassi's. While they are pushing limits to race, those limits are sometimes exceeded, such is the nature of racing and the concept of trying to win. She'll finish top 8 about every superspeedway simply based on 2 to 4 people competing ahead of her will have some type of issue pushing these limits. Just last year alone, I'd be interested to know how many cars in front of her went out due to crashes, mechanical failure, pit crew blunder, etc. Heck her teammate TK went out of at least Indy, Edmonton, and Milwaukee by no fault of his own and moved her up a place in each of those.

Road courses are a no brainer, she's a boner tried, tested and proven times over. So all you people saying she's a "competent" driver and "she can be ok" etc...you're talking about somebody in equipment better than over half the field that isn't capable or isn't willing of pushing to run up front. It kills me to see people somehow make this claim about her when the time sheets are there for everybody to see. This isn't even getting into the technical side of things where for instance Bobby Rahal essentially came out a publicly stated she is clueless on race car set-up. What kind of "great" "amazing" driver can't even set up their own car. As a rookie you'd think it would be more difficult but the steps leading to the big leagues are meant to gain that education. She never learned it and she's not learned it in 5 years not at the Indycar level. This is as stated by teammates, engineers, team owners from both past and present. So if driving a 650hp car glued to the pavement, huging a white line and waiting for attrition or strategy to play into your hands make you any type of good driver, then why shouldn't we all just settle for mediocrity and call ourselves special talents?

[Mark in Oshawa]

To say this is a strategy is to say all those guys behind her weren't trying very hard. If it was so easy - then more "mediocre" drivers would use the same strategy. It just doesn't compute.

Yes - she has done well on ovals. Her average finish was tied with Helio for 4th. On road/street courses, she was tied with Matos and Wheldon for 10th. In four road/street races head to head with PT, her average finish was actually slightly better. Go figure. She's the driver and he's the racer, but he's sitting on the sofa eating chocolates and tweeting.

All this aside - if Will Power had a full season last year with Penske, he would have won the championship long before Homestead.

Well first off, I like the fact some people are willing to defend her besides DF. That in itself proves chivalry isn't dead. It also makes me feel better when I disagree with you guys for the sheer reason it gives us something to do debate!

First off, Will Power was awesome. Your last statement is dead on the money. Now...why is he awesome? Fast everywhere, check. Great personality, check. Speaks English, check. Sets up his cars and works well with engineers? Roger wouldn't take a guy like that if he wasn't so, Check. Great worker who loves to test? check. Not afraid to mix it up on track? check.

Now, answer me if Danica if has any of those qualities. Seriously other than she is an American speaking English...her personality makes as many enemies as friends, and THAT is the one thing she can work. She is fast enough and secure enough now on ovals. I give her that but with St. Petes, Long Beach, Edmonton, Mid Ohio, Barber and Toronto on the sched, that is SIX races she basically just tries to survive. THat means her 5th in points is something to be noted for sure, but when I see her in a duel for a win, then I am a believer. She isn't a racer guys...and that isn't a horrible crime, but that isn't a champion. PT wrecks now as a 40 year old but he wrecks trying to make things happen. He isn't running for points, and never has. He wants to WIN. Every lap, every where. Who do you want to pay money to see, a guy who wants to win every lap or a girl who rides around? C'mon, no one would be naive to say Danica on that score.

I am giving her credit for her oval performance, last year I saw that she has risen out of the pack of really mediocre drivers but she isn't a threat to be taken seriously. Sorry...just isn't, and THAT is why the personality and hype don't work for me. There is no there there. As a fan, I don't care what the driver looks like in a bikini. Scott's opinion of her is mine too, I don't see her as that attractive, but i would live with that if she was a racer. She isn't...and shows no signs of being one.

As for her being a negative no matter what happens with her NASCAR adventure, I think if she did well it would have helped the IRL's rep. I knew tho she woudln't do well. If Sam Hornish cant get past mediocre most weekends, why would anyone think Danica would excel? It isn't that IRL drivers are so bad, but it is a different form of motorsport. She would struggle in a WRC car in a rally, but that would be expected. Well in many ways, going to NASCAR is THAT big a leap....and few OW drivers make that leap easily. The really talented ones do......or the ones who grew up driving sprints and midgets, not the Atlantics and Mazda's...

[TURN3]

All this aside - if Will Power had a full season last year with Penske, he would have won the championship long before Homestead.

No kidding. Will is going to be awfully tough to beat for the championship this year. In Penske equipment, that guy is just flat out fast on road courses and he did well at Indy last year. The other 4 can run with him but I'd say he is going to be the guy to beat in terms of speed every week on the roadies.

Oh wait, this is a Danica thread so let me tie her in here. She stinks and she can't carry Will Power's helmet bag.

[SarahFan]

1. I COMPLETEY disagree with that statement. In the early 90's, guys like King Hiro, Carlos Guerrero, Eliseo Salazar and Dean Hall were buying their way into Indy Car rides. There were plenty of lower talent drivers in the sport. Danica would have eventually had Argent buy her way into a Indy Car ride (likely with Rahal), whether there ever had been "a split" or not.

And the overincessent hype would have still flowed, whether there was "a split" or not.


2. Don't agree with that either. She is VASTLY overrated as a "hottie". 5 foot girls, with no curves and a rotten attitude, don't "do much" for me. ;)



And you would be wrong

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ken, I think someone like Danica is always possible with big sponsors and teams at the back of a grid who want the dough. I woudn't say she wouldn't have found a ride if she convinced enough people to write the checks. So I am going to agree partially with Scott on that one. That said, her success would have been lacking more so. Lets face it, the top 10 in points in 92 and the level of competition then blows away the 4 or 5 front runners we have now. I think Danica would be be fighting for her job. 28 cars used to start every week on road courses, on short ovals, and the top 20 could be dueling for position. Since I have yet to see anyone point out one incident where she made a daring pass in any race for a win or a top 3 finish, I am going to guess correctly she would be staying out of trouble in 18th most of the day hoping for people to DNF. That aint racing...that is driving scared hoping she isn't discovered for being a fraud. Now, in the today's IRL, Guys like Marco and Tony on her team, or Tomas Scheketer or PT will wreck and she is the beneficiery, but again, would any team owner take Danica over Tony, PT or Tomas? Even Marco at least keeps trying to improve. I just get the feeling Danica plays the attrition game. I works in today's IRL. It may not if the series gets healthier and god knows it is a recipe for disaster in NASCAR.

[px400r]

2006 9th
2007 7th
2008 6th
2009 5th Finished highest on her team.

6.75 average. Lets say 7th. Easily in the top 1/3 of the field.

Very decent & improving each year.

Starter, I gotta agree with you. She's a very decent, journeyman racer. She brings the car home consistantly in one piece. Where all of this animosity comes from I have no idea. Let's just say it does not reflect kindly on those slinging the mud though.


Here's Scott Dixon's finish by year in the IRL:

2003 1st
2004 10th
2005 13th
2006 4th
2007 2nd
2008 1st
2009 2nd

4.7 average finish, 2004 and 2005 seasons drag the numbers down. Has won a race every year except 2004.

He's a favorite to challenge (if not win) the title each year and a threat to win each race. Easily one of the top three drivers in the series.

Now with a straight face, tell us he gets more attention than Danica Patrick.

[downtowndeco]

So what's your point? That life isn't fair? Boo hoo. Grab a crying towel and join the club.

If life were fair than Styx wouldn't have sold more albums than The Clash & Paris Hilton wouldn't be more well known than Pleasant Gehman.

Talent does not always equal fame. Fame does not always equal talent. And sometimes (like Danica), the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Really. Some of you guys need to get over it. You're coming off like flock of catty high school girls who are jealous the new girl is getting all the attention.





Here's Scott Dixon's finish by year in the IRL:

2003 1st
2004 10th
2005 13th
2006 4th
2007 2nd
2008 1st
2009 2nd

4.7 average finish, 2004 and 2005 seasons drag the numbers down. Has won a race every year except 2004.

He's a favorite to challenge (if not win) the title each year and a threat to win each race. Easily one of the top three drivers in the series.

Now with a straight face, tell us he gets more attention than Danica Patrick.

[px400r]

So what's your point? That life isn't fair? Boo hoo. Grab a crying towel and join the club.

If life were fair than Styx wouldn't have sold more albums than The Clash & more people would have heard of Charles Bukowski than Paris Hilton.

Talent does not always equal fame. Fame does not always equal talent. And sometimes (like Danica), the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Really. Some of you guys need to get over it. You're coming off like flock of catty high school girls who are jealous the new girl is getting all the attention.

I guess you don't get the point- so I'll lay it out for you.

Danica Patrick gets far more attention than what her on track career warrants.

Her fame is due to her novelty, GoDaddy sponsorship, and magazine photo shoots.

If we were talking about other polarizing figures like Michael Andretti or Paul Tracy, it would be different. No one questions their ability or their on track accomplishments.

To accept the current state says a lot about how far AOW has fallen when it relies on untalented celebrity to eclipse the sport. No other professional sport does that, not even NASCAR.

And if you have accepted that, then you are most definitely part of the problem.

[downtowndeco]

Clearly what I posted flew straight over your head. I'll put you in the "Jealous High School Girl" column.


I guess you don't get the point- so I'll lay it out for you.

Danica Patrick gets far more attention than what her on track career warrants.

Her fame is due to her novelty, GoDaddy sponsorship, and magazine photo shoots.

If we were talking about other polarizing figures like Michael Andretti or Paul Tracy, it would be different. No one questions their ability or their on track accomplishments.

To accept the current state says a lot about how far AOW has fallen when it relies on untalented celebrity to eclipse the sport. No other professional sport does that, not even NASCAR.

And if you have accepted that, then you are most definitely part of the problem.

[px400r]

Clearly what I posted flew straight over your head. I'll put you in the "Jealous High School Girl" column.

That didn't take long, did it? I got your point. But if you don't want to hear the truth, I suppose there's nothing I can do about that.

I'm not jealous. I'm sad AOW has sunk this low. I don't like middle of the road racers treated like they were the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of their sport.

And I'll take the higher ground and refrain from insults and name calling.

[Scotty G.]

And you would be wrong

Wrong about what?

Wrong that there were ridebuyers and no-talent's that were ONLY there because of the check they wrote in CART before any "split", or wrong that she is short, with no curves and a lousy attitude?

All of that, is pretty true.

[downtowndeco]

Like it or not racing is entertainment, a part of pop culture. In the entertainment industry some people have always gotten more attention than their actual talent deserved. Can't you be happy that someone in OW is getting some press? I mean, she's no AJ Foyt but then again she's not Milka either.

It just comes off really petty when people go on & on about how Danica gets too much attention. The amount of hoops some of you jump through to discount her ability is silly.


That didn't take long, did it? I got your point. But if you don't want to hear the truth, I suppose there's nothing I can do about that.

I'm not jealous. I'm sad AOW has sunk this low. I don't like middle of the road racers treated like they were the Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan of their sport.

And I'll take the higher ground and refrain from insults and name calling.

[SarahFan]

Wrong about what?

Wrong that there were ridebuyers and no-talent's that were ONLY there because of the check they wrote in CART before any "split", or wrong that she is short, with no curves and a lousy attitude?

All of that, is pretty true.

without the split she never makes it to the bigs.....and we all know it

[SarahFan]

And if you have accepted that, then you are most definitely part of the problem.

he would have to actually be a fan of the drivers teams and races of the sport to be part of the problem...

he's not, so he's not......nothing more than an internet fly in the soup

[px400r]

Like it or not racing is entertainment, a part of pop culture. In the entertainment industry some people have always gotten more attention than their actual talent deserved. Can't you be happy that someone in OW is getting some press? I mean, she's no AJ Foyt but then again she's not Milka either.

It just comes off really petty when people go on & on about how Danica gets too much attention. The amount of hoops some of you jump through to discount her ability is silly.

Major League Baseball, the NFL, NBA, and NHL are all professional sports and entertainment. Here's the difference- their stars are at the top of their sports. Indy Car racing can't say the same. So the conclusion is that Indy Car racing is less sport and more entertainment- not quite "professional wrestling" but dangerously close.

And how can I be happy about Danica Patrick getting the press but none of it seems to work to Indy Car's advantage? After this past weekend, most Americans have probably heard of Zach Parise and that he is a professional hockey player in the NHL. Most people know Danica Patrick as that GoDaddy girl who drives race cars. See the difference?

We may look petty from your side of the fence- but from our side, you come across as an apologist. I guess we have higher standards for the sport of Indy Car racing than you.

[downtowndeco]

Where were you when Paul Tracey was dressing like a Mexican wrestler? Hopefully you were just as offended.

[quote="px400r"]

[px400r]

Where were you when Paul Tracey was dressing like a Mexican wrestler? Hopefully you were just as offended.

Why would I be offended? He's a character- no doubt. But his on track performance is not in question.

If he were a mid-pack driver with no results to show for his effort, then I would definitely dismiss him as nothing more than a show boat and a poor choice to represent the sport.

Once again, do you see the difference?

[SarahFan]

do you see the difference?


he doesn't even see the races....no way he will see the difference

[Mark in Oshawa]

PT did the Mexican wrassler thing in Quebec to entertain the French and defuse the image he had for trashing French drivers when they went to Montreal. It was a one weekend blip on the radar that all but a few hard core fans forgot. Everyone knows Danica as that GoDaddy girl and that she races. Most of the unwashed likley think she runs NASCAR.....

The IRL gets very little out of this and the ratings reflect it. PT and his antics were a sideshow to the fact he used to go and RUN up front and compete. Danica survives, not competes...

[Scotty G.]

without the split she never makes it to the bigs.....and we all know it

In 1995, King Hiro, Dean Hall, Carlos Guerrero, Alessandro Zampedri, Marco Greco and Eliseo Salazar ran in CART.

If she had the money (which she did) and had the team to move up to (which she did), she would have been in a Indy Car.

And we all know it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In 1995, King Hiro, Dean Hall, Carlos Guerrero, Alessandro Zampedri, Marco Greco and Eliseo Salazar ran in CART.

If she had the money (which she did) and had the team to move up to (which she did), she would have been in a Indy Car.

And we all know it.

I don't think it would be that easy. The reason she ended up in the IRL is because Bobby Rahal took her on as a project. She didn't have the sponsor then....she got that at Rahal's operation. I don't dispute someone could sign a check to put her behind the wheel of a rotten team at any time back then, but the economics of the business were a lot different. Sponsors were more plentiful and generous because the sport and purses were healthier. Desparate teams would be the only ones giving her a shot, not Rahal or Andretti...

[beachbum]

When Danica was racing FF in England, her stated goal was to get to F1

When Danica was just starting in Altantics, her stated goal was to move up to Champ Car because that is where Rahal was going to take her.

When Danica was in Atlantics, and Rahal got her a ride in a Prodrive Ferrari, she stated her goal was LeMans

When Danica was ready to move up, Rahal was in the IRL, and her goal was to win the Indianapolis 500

When Danica got GoDaddy as a sponsor and they wanted to go to NASCAR, she stated she wanted to Win the Daytona 500.

Danica goes wherever the sugar daddy with money tells her to go.

[Mark in Oshawa]

When Danica was racing FF in England, her stated goal was to get to F1

When Danica was just starting in Altantics, her stated goal was to move up to Champ Car because that is where Rahal was going to take her.

When Danica was in Atlantics, and Rahal got her a ride in a Prodrive Ferrari, she stated her goal was LeMans

When Danica was ready to move up, Rahal was in the IRL, and her goal was to win the Indianapolis 500

When Danica got GoDaddy as a sponsor and they wanted to go to NASCAR, she stated she wanted to Win the Daytona 500.

Danica goes wherever the sugar daddy with money tells her to go.

Well that was your point right? She does this for the dough, and not the love of the sport?

[TURN3]

When Danica was ready to move up, Rahal was in the IRL, and her goal was to win the Indianapolis 500

When was Danica ever ready to "move up"? :D

[beachgirl]

When was Danica ever ready to "move up"? :D

I have to agree. She wasn't ready to move up. She was moved up.

I'll tell you what really turned me off on her - and it was right at the beginning. She'd qualified really well for the 2005 500, and the skies were starting to threaten and the weather was starting to turn. Danica wanted to pull her time and requalify. (This was all on TV, on pit lane, by the way, so it's no urban myth) Rahal said no, they'd keep her time. She threw a hissy and stomped her feet up and down right there on pit lane, and did a big pout. At the time I thought - this person is a racer? Doesn't she understand the situation?

Obviously she was clueless, and continues to be. She's a talented driver, in a narrowly focused racing career path, and I give her that. I certainly couldn't do what she does in Indycar. But I have raced, professionally. And she's no racer, and the RACING is why I watch.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have to agree. She wasn't ready to move up. She was moved up.

I'll tell you what really turned me off on her - and it was right at the beginning. She'd qualified really well for the 2005 500, and the skies were starting to threaten and the weather was starting to turn. Danica wanted to pull her time and requalify. (This was all on TV, on pit lane, by the way, so it's no urban myth) Rahal said no, they'd keep her time. She threw a hissy and stomped her feet up and down right there on pit lane, and did a big pout. At the time I thought - this person is a racer? Doesn't she understand the situation?

Obviously she was clueless, and continues to be. She's a talented driver, in a narrowly focused racing career path, and I give her that. I certainly couldn't do what she does in Indycar. But I have raced, professionally. And she's no racer, and the RACING is why I watch.

Beachgirl, I remember watching that on tv, and thinking, who does she think SHE is telling Bobby Rahal off? She would have never made it without Rahal. The man has a championship and an Indy 500 ring. I think that incident alone was enough for me...

[beachgirl]

Beachgirl, I remember watching that on tv, and thinking, who does she think SHE is telling Bobby Rahal off? She would have never made it without Rahal. The man has a championship and an Indy 500 ring. I think that incident alone was enough for me...

And he will not even speak her name anymore. That's a clue.

[V12]

When Danica was racing FF in England, her stated goal was to get to F1.

Really? I don't remember her being all that good in FF, saw her racing once at Brands Hatch in the BTCC support race and she spent the entire race tooling around at the back with Hideki Mutoh. In fact I think the only decent result she got was in the Festival when pretty much every front runner apart from Anthony Davidson decided to play a bit of bumper cars on the last lap. She hardly marked herself out as F3 or F3000 material, let alone F1.

[beachbum]

Really? I don't remember her being all that good in FF, saw her racing once at Brands Hatch in the BTCC support race and she spent the entire race tooling around at the back with Hideki Mutoh. In fact I think the only decent result she got was in the Festival when pretty much every front runner apart from Anthony Davidson decided to play a bit of bumper cars on the last lap. She hardly marked herself out as F3 or F3000 material, let alone F1. FF in that era was a bit of a crashfest. You have to dig, but there are some good videos of her on YouTube from that era. Yup, she was almost always tooling around near the back, but there is a real funny one where she crashed and then perfected the "foot stomp".

[Mark in Oshawa]

FF in that era was a bit of a crashfest. You have to dig, but there are some good videos of her on YouTube from that era. Yup, she was almost always tooling around near the back, but there is a real funny one where she crashed and then perfected the "foot stomp".

An international footstomp....still looks childish today..