Almost official: USF1 wouldn't race in 2010

[Lalo]

After many rumors of delays and setbacks building their Type 1 car, Peter Windsor has said yesterday that the USF1 won't be in the grid in 2010, as the team won't be ready for Barhein following finantial difficulties. The team also was unable to fulfill the FIA requirements as they failed to do their crash test in the past few days.

Due to this situation, José María "Pechito" López, so far the only driver who has been confirmed to drive for USF1, is desperatly trying to find a seat. Windsor has set him free to negotiate with Campos Meta team to have López as their number two driver, but the spanish team is also having finantial difficulties and it's uncertain if they will take part of the grid as well...

Also moving to Campos Meta team would be Chad Hurley, cofounder of YouTube, who also was the main investor of the american team.

If it's confirmed that USF1 won't take part of the grid, the FIA could allow another team in: Stefan GP, who's cars are ready and who has two drivers signed: Kazuki Nakajima (who putted money from his own pocket to race) and the Indian Karun Chandhok, who's contract would be signed in the next few days.

Source (in spanish): http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2010/02/17/N-2663-el-usf1-no-correria-en-2010.php

[gloomyDAY]

I'm so glad that I saved this quote:


Peter "second phase turn-in" windsor involved in something?

It is doomed already.

[Lalo]

Too bad for López.. He's got experience and a lot to show and learn. Hopefully he'll manage to get a drive. I only hope this doesn't happen as well with Campos

[gloomyDAY]

I know Lopez is your countryman, but come on, he's not fit for F1!

[F1boat]

Good luck for Lopez. Hopefully now Stefan GP can enter. WTF1 has delayed the thing too much.

[UltimateDanGTR]

*sarcasm*

surprise suprise.....

[stephenw_us]

I dare SpeedTV to put this monkey back on the air.... :mad:

[CNR]

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Content/FormulaOne/14/5ed58fc8476945cca3255c5d541f7057/18-02-2010-10-21/End_of_the_line_for_team_USF1

Instead, like Hurley, 26-year-old Lopez's management has turned its attention to other F1 teams. A source close to Lopez told La Voz del Interior
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5956816,00.html


Rumours of USF1's pending demise have made headlines for the past few months with F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone often stating that he believes they won't ...

http://www.icars.sg/2010/12404/us-f1-may-skip-the-2010-season/


Apparently Charlotte-based US F1 may skip up to three races and or even the entire season all together. The US team along with Campos have yet to launch

[Sonic]

Bye bye, USF1.

I just hope that this doesn't put someone else off building a United States based GP team - its still a good idea, this was just badly managed from day dot.

[F1boat]

I'd trust Penske or Ganassi with this, not Windsor. Hopefully he will disappear like Stepney.

[RS]

I hope they (or the FIA) get a move on with confirming that they won't compete in order to clear the way for Stefan.

It is a shame they haven't made it though, I was looking forward to seeing how the "great American technology and knowhow" we were promised were going to perform.

Hopefully this will help Campos make the grid now with the Lopez money.

[Saint Devote]

Lets not rejoice in the misery of Windsor.

Sometimes he is a "motor mouth" but he loves F1 deeply and he risked publicly.

Let us rather forget what has gone before and if this is the correct picture, then welcome him back to F1 in whatever capacity he will return.

It is not easy to launch and build something like an F1 team and not making it is no disgrace.

Just like Flavio, rather focus on his positives for they surely outweigh the negatives. Hein?

[Saint Devote]

If Campos-Meta can be saved, even with Lopez, it will be excellent because out of all these teams I do have sympathy for Bruno Senna.

[Saint Devote]

I feel sorry for workers/designers/aero people etc, who were tempted away from European based teams to commit to a project which in reality has been doomed for a very long while. They will in effect be out of a job in the next few weeks and USF1 will join the likes of Lola Mastercard in the ranks of F1 rejects. I am quite sad this has not worked out as I was looking forward to seeing how an American outfit would handle the disipline of F1. I also hope in the future that this won't put other American investors off attempting a similar venture...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100217/FREE/100219906#ixzz0fqKtkKKt

I think looking at how F1 works today, it requires someone like a Branson or Mateschitz, if not the only racing team I think in the US that could be effective in F1, Penske Racing.

Pity Bill Gates is not interested in F1 - a Microsft sponsored Penske :D

[Caroline]

I know a team has to talk big just get a look in but I am not surprised that the team are in this position. They always appeared to be more attractive as a proposition or an idea than an actual functioning team - perhaps the US is just too far away from traditional F1 bases.

I always like seeing new teams in F1. A shame really.

[RJL25]

Lets not be too harsh on Windsor here... ok look it was a complete failure and was frankly never ever going to work anyway, but sh!t at least he was giving it a go!

HOW MAN OF YOU GAVE IT A GO!

thats right...

The bloke has an un-dieing passion for this sport, he has tried so hard to be successfull in it for so long now, this is his latest failure and I feel very sorry for him, in a lot of ways as I said at least he is having a go and you just have to respect that because frankly, none of you have!

This is a guy who was bundled into the back of a van, driven to the middle of no where, had the hell beaten out of him, dumped on the side of the road, and he is STILL made keen about the sport and giving it a go!

I tell you one thing, if nothing else, he is gonna write one HELL of an autobiography one day!

[maximilian]

I agree that this news needs to be signed, sealed, and delivered to and then by the FIA ASAP to clear the path for StefanGP's official entry. Let's just hope that those guys are really the real deal, and not a bunch of pretenders, but signs are good.

What's stopping StefanGP now from buying out USF1's operation including their official entry spot?

[Dave B]

What's stopping StefanGP now from buying out USF1's operation including their official entry spot?
The suggestion that they may not have as much money as they like to make out?

[JasonD]

This is silly and quite disgusting really. Why oh why did they even start this if they didnt have the financial backing to see it through.

The FIA should make it mandatory to present guaranteed financial backing for an entire season.

I think WTF1 went into this thinking a whole bunch of companies would jump on board with giant novelty cheques. Why would they think that? Easy, theyre fracking stupid thats why.

[veeten]

Sorta bummed with the way this is panning out, but not suprised.

The worst thing is others saying that Penske or Ganassi would do better, because they wouldn't even bother in entering in the first place.

and why is that? Simple, because they wouldn't get paid. That's the reason why they're involved in US-based motorsports (NASCAR, Indycar, Grand Am) and ONLY US-based Motorsports. You get the money before, during and after the race, the season, and the championship. Why should we give that up just to go trapsing all over the globe, spending a boatload of cash, and getting very little response from your own nation, when you can be more profitable just 'staying home' and doing your racing in front of your own; that's the mentality of modern day american racing team owners.

The only exception seems to be those invoilved in ALMS or motorcycle racing, as they know that there is a connection between what they do and others across the pond. That was the main reason why I liked the concept of what an american-based F1 team would represent. Unfortunately, that has not panned out very well. But, I don't hold the view that the aforementioned persons would have done a better job, for if they did it would've been done a long time before 2008, or for that matter 2006.

So now, many of us over here will be returning back to our former positions: watching from afar, while we are stuck with media-driven 'sell-a-thons' masquerading as motorsport staring 'Idol'-type darlings like Danica Patrick.

It's just sad.

[wedge]

LOL

USF1 website went down fuelling rumours of their demise but they reckon is was a server glitch!

[woody2goody]

What a joke.

[bartlock]

This is really bad :(

I want a full grid of 26 cars!

[N. Jones]

:) I would like to see 26 cars too.

If it works out that some remnant of Campos/USF1 and Stefan GP make the grid I would be fine with that.

[garyshell]

Lets not rejoice in the misery of Windsor.

Sometimes he is a "motor mouth" but he loves F1 deeply and he risked publicly.

Let us rather forget what has gone before and if this is the correct picture, then welcome him back to F1 in whatever capacity he will return.

It is not easy to launch and build something like an F1 team and not making it is no disgrace.

Just like Flavio, rather focus on his positives for they surely outweigh the negatives. Hein?


Lets not be too harsh on Windsor here... ok look it was a complete failure and was frankly never ever going to work anyway, but sh!t at least he was giving it a go!

HOW MAN OF YOU GAVE IT A GO!

thats right...

The bloke has an un-dieing passion for this sport, he has tried so hard to be successfull in it for so long now, this is his latest failure and I feel very sorry for him, in a lot of ways as I said at least he is having a go and you just have to respect that because frankly, none of you have!

This is a guy who was bundled into the back of a van, driven to the middle of no where, had the hell beaten out of him, dumped on the side of the road, and he is STILL made keen about the sport and giving it a go!

I tell you one thing, if nothing else, he is gonna write one HELL of an autobiography one day!


Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters?

Gary

[gloomyDAY]

Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters?

GaryHell no!

Gary, I'm surprised you're defending Saint Devote. This is the same guy who defends Flavio and deems him a person of high integrity. Anyway, Windsor shouldn't have been raising our hopes. When the story first broke (1 year and two weeks ago) I felt like a kid in a candy store. Now it's as if I've been lied to for the past year about this imagination-land car that never came to fruition.

[F1boat]

gloomuday, I have to say that I respect Flav too. He is not a very nice guy, but a damn good team boss.

[gloomyDAY]

gloomuday, I have to say that I respect Flav too. He is not a very nice guy, but a damn good team boss.Well, what do you have to say about Windsor after this whole debacle?

[garyshell]

Hell no!

Gary, I'm surprised you're defending Saint Devote. This is the same guy who defends Flavio and deems him a person of high integrity. Anyway, Windsor shouldn't have been raising our hopes. When the story first broke (1 year and two weeks ago) I felt like a kid in a candy store. Now it's as if I've been lied to for the past year about this imagination-land car that never came to fruition.


First let me be clear I am NOT in agreement with his views on Flavio. But in regards to Windsor I am. Oh poor you, you got your hopes dashed so now Windsor is a bad bad man. Oh please, spare me. How do you think Windsor feels? He tried, what have you done but sit here and feel sorry for yourself?

I am as disappointed as anyone else, but am glad Peter tried. Who else has made this sort of effort?

Gary

[garyshell]

Well, what do you have to say about Windsor after this whole debacle?


He tried. What else IS there to say?

Gary

[Stuartf12007]

usa In Motorsport = Fail

[anthonyvop]

usa In Motorsport = Fail

Tell that to the Gt-1 class guys at Le Mans.

[gloomyDAY]

Oh poor you, you got your hopes dashed so now Windsor is a bad bad man.
Gary :rolleyes:

Demonize someone who actually cares as much as you do about motorsports.

Nice.

[VkmSpouge]

Shame but maybe if Lopez and Hurley can go over to Campos they could help save that team. I just hope that if this is the end they have the grace to pull the plug now to let Stefan fill the grid slot.


usa In Motorsport = Fail

Unless it's Mario Andretti or Phil Hill.

[garyshell]

Anyway, Windsor shouldn't have been raising our hopes. When the story first broke (1 year and two weeks ago) I felt like a kid in a candy store. Now it's as if I've been lied to for the past year about this imagination-land car that never came to fruition.


Oh poor you, you got your hopes dashed so now Windsor is a bad bad man.


:rolleyes:

Demonize someone who actually cares as much as you do about motorsports.

Nice.

But it is ok for you to demonize someone who cares more about motorsports than you and I combined, namely Mr. Windsor?

Gary

[CNR]

after reading this i am glad that they win not be on the f1 grid


Chad Hurley's efforts last week to secure Dallara chassis for the team from the equally troubled Campos Meta group
there cars must be far from finished
http://www.racer.com/us-f1-facing-the-end/article/164012/

[Mia 01]

Move on, this was some sort of a dream (young boy dream) a dream that have to be fullfilled in the nascar country. It was hard from the get go.
US don´t need F1, they don´t value it.

Well, that´s perfectly alright.

Stefan GP the spot is yours.

[bartlock]

Well, what do you have to say about Windsor after this whole debacle?

That he has balls and he tried to make a Formula 1 Team! in my book that is a great thing.

[CCWS77]

This is silly and quite disgusting really. Why oh why did they even start this if they didnt have the financial backing to see it through.

The FIA should make it mandatory to present guaranteed financial backing for an entire season.

Yes, because what F1 needs is more bureaucracy and legalise to make it better. Who cares if a team started but failed? Did they take your money to do it or something?

Applause to whoever tried but failed to get a business started.
Bureaucrats who want to stop those guys from even trying, unless they first fill out 10000 pages of paperwork, need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Maybe instead of lamenting how USF1 wasted a spot on the grid you should be asking why it is required to reserve a slot and meet so many requirements.

[Saint Devote]

Hell no!

Gary, I'm surprised you're defending Saint Devote. This is the same guy who defends Flavio and deems him a person of high integrity. Anyway, Windsor shouldn't have been raising our hopes. When the story first broke (1 year and two weeks ago) I felt like a kid in a candy store. Now it's as if I've been lied to for the past year about this imagination-land car that never came to fruition.

Now DO NOT go "putting words in my mouth".

All I ask is for Flavio to be judged on what he has brought to F1 and not anything connected to his life outside whether positive or negative and, not painted black over one action that in the history of racing is not unusual either.

I did not raise him as a spectre of high integrity - I did admonish those on this board who pontificate and sit up so very high pointing fingers and gleefully attacking those, publicly exposed, who have made an error.

Windsor is not responsible for your "hopes". He is responsible for himself and USF1.

You, the individual, can think for yourself and decide - you are responsible for your own disappointment. Maybe you should STOP feeling "like a kid" as you put it and rather react like an adult.

[Saint Devote]

usa In Motorsport = Fail

This sort of remark really "gets my Irish up!"

Besides the obvious racing drivers, how about the great Eagle team? Dan Gurney won wth them but his backers withdrew.

Roger Penske won and the left.

Less obvious is the material called carbon fiber - an American invention. How many lives has this saved?

And the company that invented it had a direct interest in F1 through the Du Pont family. His name, Brett Lunger - a very wealthy kid that also volunteeredd for Vietnam as a marine and was one of the drivers to pull Lauda from his burning car.

And while it is different, American motor racing is magnificent. Just look at it!

Do you really believe, that people from such a nation, if they WANTED to move into F1, would not succeed?

Americans HAVE succeeded in F1, without even trying too hard, auld sport!

Maybe, we ought to be relieved that Americans have NOT decided to make F1 their center :vader:

[Easy Drifter]

You could add Nomex to that list.
I had one of the first Nomex driver suits (and long Johns) in Canada way back in 67. :eek:

[Placid]

What will Mario and Bobby Rahal be thinking? They were so anxious to push Marco and Graham to F1. The only way that can happen is if any team can give them a fair test drive during their test weeks. If the Becketts got involved, then maybe they may get in the grid. Instead, they bought the Cubs.

[Saint Devote]

You could add Nomex to that list.
I had one of the first Nomex driver suits (and long Johns) in Canada way back in 67. :eek:

:D kewl!

1967 - the names Al Pease, George Eaton and Eppie Wietzes come to mind, along with that beautiful circuit that has to have a soft spot in the soul of all racing fans, Mosport Park.

[Saint Devote]

What will Mario and Bobby Rahal be thinking? They were so anxious to push Marco and Graham to F1. The only way that can happen is if any team can give them a fair test drive during their test weeks. If the Becketts got involved, then maybe they may get in the grid. Instead, they bought the Cubs.

There is the driving talent in the US. Bernie tried to sign Rick Mears and I reckon he would have been a world champion. When he tested for Brabham I think he was fractionally slower than Piquet in his first few laps ever! Such a pity.

Currently I still believe Jeff Gordon was a great prospect.

But on the horizon the most exciting driver prospect is Josef Newgarten and he IS set on F1 because he is racing in Europe.

[gloomyDAY]

But it is ok for you to demonize someone who cares more about motorsports than you and I combined, namely Mr. Windsor?

GaryWindsor obviously does not care or else there would be a team on the grid. This was just one big wild goose chase.


That he has balls and he tried to make a Formula 1 Team! in my book that is a great thing.Balls?! What balls?

The only thing motoring is Windsor's mouth.


Now DO NOT go "putting words in my mouth".Hard to keep track since there is so much crap that comes from...ummmm...nevermind.

[call_me_andrew]

Windsor tried to reinvent the wheel and it didn't work out, a noble effort!

[N. Jones]

Windsor tried to reinvent the wheel and it didn't work out, a noble effort!

"Reinvent the wheel"?? Could you fill me in as to what that means please?

It looks to me that Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson tried to setup a team in the US and attract the wealth there but they failed.

They tried, they failed. Hopefully one day there will be a US GP and a successful US entry in F1.

[Placid]

There is the driving talent in the US. Bernie tried to sign Rick Mears and I reckon he would have been a world champion. When he tested for Brabham I think he was fractionally slower than Piquet in his first few laps ever! Such a pity.

Currently I still believe Jeff Gordon was a great prospect.

But on the horizon the most exciting driver prospect is Josef Newgarten and he IS set on F1 because he is racing in Europe.

Alex Rossi is still there. He will head to GP3. Summerton is trying to get financial backing for F2. Hildebrand is probably staying stateside after his test with Coyne if he can get the funds. No word if John Edwards has his NWR put an Indy Lights ride.

Back in the '90s before the split, the best US prospects would have been Vasser, Hertan and Robby Gordon.

[F1boat]

I think that American drivers focus on stock car racing and that's why their drivers are not very strong in F1 and with the notable exception of Hornish jr. in IndyCar. Whether a US team would be successful, seriously successful in F1 I dunno. It seems that only teams from Great Britain and Ferrari can be consistently strong, so who knows? The Japanese, also a great nation, tried and failed.
But in reality I don't believe in the concept of better and weaker nations. It's about the people. The best teams are international. Check the Ferrari dream team...

[garyshell]

Windsor obviously does not care or else there would be a team on the grid. This was just one big wild goose chase.

Oh so all it takes is for someone to care and magically the funding and everything else will fall into place. If you say so Peter Pan. I bet you thought Tinkerbell could be saved by believing in fairies too.

Gary

[stephenw_us]

Oh so all it takes is for someone to care and magically the funding and everything else will fall into place. If you say so Peter Pan. I bet you thought Tinkerbell could be saved by believing in fairies too.

Gary

I don't know what is sadder - the team or the indignation from Americans now that it has failed...

:rolleyes:

[gloomyDAY]

Oh so all it takes is for someone to care and magically the funding and everything else will fall into place. If you say so Peter Pan. I bet you thought Tinkerbell could be saved by believing in fairies too.

GaryMrs. Windsor and Ken Doll should have attained their funding before acting like pretentious little c*nts in front of the world press.

Can you get that through your head princess?


Windsor tried to reinvent the wheel and it didn't work out, a noble effort!Yes, let's shower the whole USFail crew with frankincense, myrrh, and gold.

[Big Ben]

USF1's failure doesn't offend me so much as my fellow forum mates so I don't really get people's anger. They've tried their best and failed miserably, lesson is never try. Right? They probably should have talked less and take a decision sooner (I don't even know if it's official yet) to free that spot. They shouldn't have started talking about reinventing the wheel before they even had one. However I can't blame them for trying and failing... it happens some times. Certainly, Bernie promising them extra time and FIA making (as usual) vague threats if they fail to attend any race didn't help them take a decision either.

[Dave B]

Yes, because what F1 needs is more bureaucracy and legalise to make it better. Who cares if a team started but failed? Did they take your money to do it or something?

Applause to whoever tried but failed to get a business started.
Bureaucrats who want to stop those guys from even trying, unless they first fill out 10000 pages of paperwork, need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Maybe instead of lamenting how USF1 wasted a spot on the grid you should be asking why it is required to reserve a slot and meet so many requirements.
Why so many requirements? Because there are only a finite number of spaces on the grid and the FIA have a duty to ensure that they are given to teams who stand a genuine chance of turning out a professional outfit for 19 weekends a year.

To allow unprepared or unfunded teams to waste everybody's time is massively unfair on those who might have otherwise been able to have raced this season, whether that be Stefan, Prodrive or CarlMetro's Dad.

Others may admire Windsor for having balls, but I believe he is a delusional dreamer who let his massive ego take precidence over a sound business plan.

My opinion, I'm not about to end my post with "FACT" so if you disagree then feel free" :)

[Big Ben]

Mrs. Windsor and Ken Doll should have attained their funding before acting like pretentious little c*nts in front of the world press.

Can you get that through your head princess?

Yes, let's shower the whole USFail crew with frankincense, myrrh, and gold.

Yeah right! Please give us your money and we'll tell you later what is it for.

[Big Ben]

I see what you're saying but in my experience a silent team doesn't attract sponsors and interest. Had they not realised videos on their main sponsors website (YouTube), I doubt anyone would have taken them seriously in the early days. As soon as they went quiet in the last months, people have been slating them. Like you I don't blame them for trying and hope maybe something will come of them in the future.. :)

I don't blame them for making themselves heard... on the contrary... too much talk however about how they are going to be different... better.... Openess and the other stuff... and they have contradicted themselves before even starting... there was nothing open about them... A few weeks left and I don't think they have officially stated where they stand.

[Civic]

I don't really mind about Windsor. It's that Anderson guy. Windsor should've known better.

[Sonic]

Anyone checked out their twitter page? There's a lot of delusional people out there, one fan even offered to "change tyres" to make sure USF1 made the grid. ROFL :D Seriously! :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Anyone checked out their twitter page? There's a lot of delusional people out there, one fan even offered to "change tyres" to make sure USF1 made the grid. ROFL :D Seriously! :rolleyes:
One guy in the WRC forum once said that he'd organise a sausage sizzle to help raise money for Skoda to stay in the WRC :rotflmao:

[Garry Walker]

I'm so glad that I saved this quote:

I knew I could count on Windsor.

Once a failure, always a failure.


That he has balls and he tried to make a Formula 1 Team! in my book that is a great thing.

Yeah, 3 hurrays for failure!!!


I know there sure is some silly comments on there.

"I know others have said it, but ifs theres anything we can do to get US-F1 on the grid, we'll do our best!"


:rotflmao:

[Azumanga Davo]

One guy in the WRC forum once said that he'd organise a sausage sizzle to help raise money for Skoda to stay in the WRC :rotflmao:

The obvious thinking that the car would have made a better barbecue than a Weber comes to mind.

[DexDexter]

So it was a Mastercard Lola like many of us predicted. :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

It wasn't even that. At least Mastercard Lola turned up with two working cars (just about) and attempted to qualify.

[Saint Devote]

I knew I could count on Windsor.

Once a failure, always a failure.



Yeah, 3 hurrays for failure!!!


:rotflmao:

Failure is no disgrace - never trying and quitting IS.

Now, we do not know what the situation at USF1 is and until we do all that there is, is speculation.

You obviously take great delight in watching the USF1 difficulties, which is disgusting to all decent people.

You supposedly are a fan of formula one yet you take such pleasure in seeing a new team suffering.

Mean-spiritedness is the biggest disgrace of all. You have my pity and none of my respect.

I respect Peter Windsor and I sure do hope that we see his brand new racing cars, this year and if not, then maybe the season after that.

[CCWS77]

Why so many requirements? Because there are only a finite number of spaces on the grid and the FIA have a duty to ensure that they are given to teams who stand a genuine chance of turning out a professional outfit for 19 weekends a year.

To allow unprepared or unfunded teams to waste everybody's time is massively unfair on those who might have otherwise been able to have raced this season, whether that be Stefan, Prodrive or CarlMetro's Dad.

Others may admire Windsor for having balls, but I believe he is a delusional dreamer who let his massive ego take precidence over a sound business plan.

My opinion, I'm not about to end my post with "FACT" so if you disagree then feel free" :)

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that the FIA should give out some limited number of spots based on politics. If there is really some epidemic of too many cars then engage in something called qualifying. Teams that can not qualify will soon quit. Who needs all this backroom dealmaking to get a starting spot. This entire idea of complaining about USF1 is based in these politics created by the FIA. If that wasn't case then fans should simply like to see as many cars as possible attempting to show up.

[call_me_andrew]

"Reinvent the wheel"?? Could you fill me in as to what that means please?

It looks to me that Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson tried to setup a team in the US and attract the wealth there but they failed.

They tried, they failed. Hopefully one day there will be a US GP and a successful US entry in F1.

Windsor and Anderson wanted to do the exact opposite of what all other F1 teams have done. They thought that since so many F1 part suppliers are in the U.S., it would prove less expensive to be in North Carolina than Europe.


I think that American drivers focus on stock car racing and that's why their drivers are not very strong in F1 and with the notable exception of Hornish jr. in IndyCar. Whether a US team would be successful, seriously successful in F1 I dunno. It seems that only teams from Great Britain and Ferrari can be consistently strong, so who knows? The Japanese, also a great nation, tried and failed.
But in reality I don't believe in the concept of better and weaker nations. It's about the people. The best teams are international. Check the Ferrari dream team...

How does Hornish enter into the equation? He went from OW to stock cars because he felt he could make more money as a middle of the pack stock car driver than a winning IndyCar driver.

A lot of American drivers start in OW, but they're driving sprint cars and midgets, both of which are front-engine. It's easier (and currently more lucritive) for them to transition to full fendered stock cars than mid/rear-engine OW cars.


Mrs. Windsor and Ken Doll should have attained their funding before acting like pretentious little c*nts in front of the world press.

Can you get that through your head princess?

Their plans were leaked to the media before they had made a final decision to start the team. At that point you have to start the team to save face.

[racepode1]

Lots of news about USF1 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/sports/autoracing/18autos.html?scp=1&sq=usf1&st=cse
Also a lot in Argentinian Press For all that people who don’t have problem reading in Spanish or with help from google translator this are the best Sites to get the latest news from USF1- Meta- Lopez Crusade
La Voz del Interior (http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/?q=categoria/temas-4) Newspaper from pechito’s city and one of the most importants in Argentina, they had direct access to pechito secretary of press and Jose Lopez Father.
Ultima Vuelta (http://www.ultimavuelta.com.ar/) Motorsport specialized Media property of Felipe McGough the manager of Pechito and also Involved in F1 Broadcasting for LA
Corsa Magazine (http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/) Motorsport specialized Media sponsor of Pechito with around 1,5 Millions Dollares
Campeones (http://www.campeonesnet.com.ar/) Motorsport specialized Media
Carburando (http://www.carburando.com.ar/) Motorsport specialized Media

[Easy Drifter]

The latest from Motorsport.com has Ken Anderson asking the FIA for permission to miss the first 4 (four) races. The rules sort of allow for three maybe.
What gall. Then says Jean Todt must reply quickly.
Talk about delusional.

[CNR]

Anyone checked out their twitter page? There's a lot of delusional people out there, one fan even offered to "change tyres" to make sure USF1 made the grid. ROFL :D Seriously! :rolleyes:


http://www.youtube.com/usf1team
have some good stuff

[CNR]

can someone translate this

Anderson admitted that the FIA might turn down US F1's request and put the team out of business.
"I guess anything's possible," he said. "But what would be the point of that? Why would they give us a franchise and just, the first time there's a bump in the road, yank it and put it out of business? That's definitely not the message that I'm getting from them. They want to help us, not shut us down."


http://en.espnf1.com/teamus/motorsport/story/9205.html

US F1's team boss Ken Anderson (http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/motorsport/driver/2922.html) has asked permission for his team to miss the first four races of its debut season this year.

[N. Jones]

Windsor and Anderson wanted to do the exact opposite of what all other F1 teams have done. They thought that since so many F1 part suppliers are in the U.S., it would prove less expensive to be in North Carolina than Europe.

Thanks for the explanation!

[BDunnell]

You supposedly are a fan of formula one yet you take such pleasure in seeing a new team suffering.

While USF1 is clearly a self-inflicted fiasco of the highest proportions, I agree with your sentiment. No-one who is a proper F1 enthusiast should wish failure on any team/driver in that way. I feel very strongly about this.

[BDunnell]

Their plans were leaked to the media before they had made a final decision to start the team. At that point you have to start the team to save face.

Or you could ignore the media 'pressure' and do the right thing. This is perhaps the best option, in this case and others.

[turismo6]

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/228603/us-f1-wishes-to-skip-four-races/

If by races you mean tests and by Barcelona you mean Bahrain.

[Garry Walker]

Failure is no disgrace - never trying and quitting IS.

Now, we do not know what the situation at USF1 is and until we do all that there is, is speculation.

You obviously take great delight in watching the USF1 difficulties, which is disgusting to all decent people.
Yeah, I hope the team goes down and the spot is given to someone who will actually add something to F1. This team is a failure. Rather Stefan GP than this.



You supposedly are a fan of formula one yet you take such pleasure in seeing a new team suffering.This is nothing compared to the suffering Race fans would suffer if we had to witness the comedy of that team actually making it to F1. They have no car, done no testing, nothing, they would be 5-6 seconds slower per lap. Is that something you want to see? I dont.



Mean-spiritedness is the biggest disgrace of all. You have my pity and none of my respect. It just breaks my heart.


While USF1 is clearly a self-inflicted fiasco of the highest proportions, I agree with your sentiment. No-one who is a proper F1 enthusiast should wish failure on any team/driver in that way. I feel very strongly about this.

it is a fact that they are a failure and with that idiot Peter Windsor leading them, it was doomed from the start. Rather give the gridspot to someone competent, instead of someone who cannot make it to the first race, because they are utterly incompetent.

I dont wish to see failure teams in F1, who are there just to make the grid bigger, but will be 5-6 seconds per lap slower. What would such a team add to F1?

So stick your proper f1 fan reference up your arse.

[truefan72]

Their plans were leaked to the media before they had made a final decision to start the team. At that point you have to start the team to save face.

No you don't and that is not smart nor sound business practices.

Yeah, lets ruin our reputations, embarrass ourselves, kill all business trust, cause a debacle to the FIA and F1 in terms of grids, and all the other fiasco's involves, so we can save face from a leaked ores conference?

The smart person would have said :"We are thinking about it but will need to make sure many factors are well in place before moving forward with such an exciting and difficult challenge. So those plans constitute our exploratory meetings and inquiries to the availability of creating a team given the new budget proposals set forth by the FIA. "


Instead they made a mockery ( along with mad max) of the whole process tot he detriment of all F1 racing fans. The sooner they go away the better. Let stefan GP in and maybe 5 years from now come back with a real plan and budget.

[BDunnell]

So stick your proper f1 fan reference up your arse.

No, I stand by it — and without, you'll note, any need to come out with charming statements like that.

[Garry Walker]

No, I stand by it — and without, you'll note, any need to come out with charming statements like that.

Oh yes, that makes you so much better than me.

I stand by my comment too.

[RS]

The latest from Motorsport.com has Ken Anderson asking the FIA for permission to miss the first 4 (four) races. The rules sort of allow for three maybe.
What gall. Then says Jean Todt must reply quickly.
Talk about delusional.

If that is the decision they are asking the FIA to make then I would say the FIA should take away their grid slot and give it to Stefan who actually have a car ready to race from Bahrain and have already flown their equipment there.

Looks like at best USF1 might make the 5th race, worst case is they will never appear at all.

Time for the FIA to bite the bullet and admit their vetting process wasn't up to scratch!

[Big Ben]

Oh yes, that makes you so much better than me.

I stand by my comment too.

it does actually... but not much of an achievement however... almost everybody around here is better than you.

[maximilian]

If that is the decision they are asking the FIA to make then I would say the FIA should take away their grid slot and give it to Stefan who actually have a car ready to race from Bahrain and have already flown their equipment there.

Looks like at best USF1 might make the 5th race, worst case is they will never appear at all.

Time for the FIA to bite the bullet and admit their vetting process wasn't up to scratch!
Even if by some strange chain of events the FIA agrees to let them miss the 4 races, there is still a grave danger that they still won't make it to the 5th race and beyond either, based on what we have observed so far. I'd say it's time to make sure we get 26 on the grid, and focus on having Stefan and "Campos" making it.

[RS]

Even if by some strange chain of events the FIA agrees to let them miss the 4 races, there is still a grave danger that they still won't make it to the 5th race and beyond either, based on what we have observed so far. I'd say it's time to make sure we get 26 on the grid, and focus on having Stefan and "Campos" making it.

I agree.

I would imagine they would be in breach of contract with Lopez's sponsors and at best would lose some of that funding too.

[Sonic]

This is turning into Donny Park all over again! Everyone can see that this is a desperate move fueled by nothing more that wistful thinking. I hope the FIA can grow a pair, accept they were totally wrong and give the slot to a team with;

A) a car

B) funding

C) a test date booked.

[DazzlaF1]

While USF1 is clearly a self-inflicted fiasco of the highest proportions, I agree with your sentiment. No-one who is a proper F1 enthusiast should wish failure on any team/driver in that way. I feel very strongly about this.

I agree, and you have explained why they are getting so much stick, no true fan would wish failure on any prospective team but with how they have handled the whole fiasco, they deserve all the criticism going their way at the moment.

If they have asked the FIA for them to miss the first 4 races then (if their own rules are to be beleived) then that should be it, let them miss them but withold all their travel benefits, and if they continue to drag their heels and say they wont be able to make Barcelona, then by all means, kick them out and re-open the bidding for the "13th team"

[Rodster]

If they have asked the FIA for them to miss the first 4 races then (if their own rules are to be beleived) then that should be it, let them miss them but withold all their travel benefits, and if they continue to drag their heels and say they wont be able to make Barcelona, then by all means, kick them out and re-open the bidding for the "13th team"

As much as I would have liked to see a USF1 team make the grid I don't think they have the funds or the management skills to pull it off. If Super Aguri, Honda, Toyota and BMW couldn't make a go of it, I can't see Windsor and Anderson pulling it off.

We're almost 3 weeks away from Bahrain and these guys still haven't built their car. And it was last year when they started their operation. I don't see how in 2-3 months they'll be on the grid and in a stable financial position.

[BDunnell]

I agree, and you have explained why they are getting so much stick, no true fan would wish failure on any prospective team but with how they have handled the whole fiasco, they deserve all the criticism going their way at the moment.

Yes, as you say, certainly the criticism is deserved, but not any gloating.

[call_me_andrew]

Everyone can see that this is a desperate move fueled by nothing more that wistful thinking.

Wistful thinking is a wonderful practice and I will not allow it to be mocked!

[Easy Drifter]

On another forum that I read some bright twit suggested that they purchase a last year car from one of the teams. Several people agreed it was a good idea.
Nobody but nobody thought to mention that last years cars do not have enough fuel capacity.
One reason I only read that forum!

[call_me_andrew]

On another forum that I read some bright twit suggested that they purchase a last year car from one of the teams. Several people agreed it was a good idea.
Nobody but nobody thought to mention that last years cars do not have enough fuel capacity.
One reason I only read that forum!

When did stupid people start using the Internet?

[CNR]

When did stupid people start using the Internet?
when there were 4 computers linked together

they could race untill the car run out of fuel and still get the concord money

[BDunnell]

Wistful thinking is a wonderful practice and I will not allow it to be mocked!

Quite right too.

[wedge]

Yes, as you say, certainly the criticism is deserved, but not any gloating.

It is Peter Windsor AKA Mr Know-it-all, after all.

[Azumanga Davo]

On another forum that I read some bright twit suggested that they purchase a last year car from one of the teams. Several people agreed it was a good idea.
Nobody but nobody thought to mention that last years cars do not have enough fuel capacity.
One reason I only read that forum!

Can't blame them for trying to think of helpful suggestions. Can't imagine a retrofitted full race tank would do much help for handling, but at least a car to start with wouldn't be a bad suggestion.

[Saint Devote]

Can't blame them for trying to think of helpful suggestions. Can't imagine a retrofitted full race tank would do much help for handling, but at least a car to start with wouldn't be a bad suggestion.

It is a ridiculous suggestion.

USF1 either does it the way they signed on for, or they step aside and offer the place to another competitor.

We are quickly reaching the point where the USF1 behavior changes from admirable to disgraceful.

And I'd say that when the FIA makes an announcement on USF1's unjust request to miss the first four races, they will say as much and eliminate the team from F1. This is dragging on and unfair to all the other teams.

I would have any team not making the last two tests be automatically eliminated for the season and any future request be considered onlyunder strict supervision and requirement.

[DazzlaF1]

It is a ridiculous suggestion.

USF1 either does it the way they signed on for, or they step aside and offer the place to another competitor.

We are quickly reaching the point where the USF1 behavior changes from admirable to disgraceful.

And I'd say that when the FIA makes an announcement on USF1's unjust request to miss the first four races, they will say as much and eliminate the team from F1. This is dragging on and unfair to all the other teams.

I would have any team not making the last two tests be automatically eliminated for the season and any future request be considered onlyunder strict supervision and requirement.
Well that would be unfair i think on Campos seeing that they've got themselves sorted out and being liekly we'lls ee them in Bahrain (they may be off the pace yes, but at least they would be there.

As for the FIA kicking out USF1 for the 4 race absence request, im sure the Windsor & Anderson will attempt to sue the FIA if that happens, but they've got no case to answer, they've asked to miss the first 4 races which goes completely against the FIA's own rules and the agreement which they signed back when they were selected.

[Saint Devote]

Well that would be unfair i think on Campos seeing that they've got themselves sorted out and being liekly we'lls ee them in Bahrain (they may be off the pace yes, but at least they would be there.

As for the FIA kicking out USF1 for the 4 race absence request, im sure the Windsor & Anderson will attempt to sue the FIA if that happens, but they've got no case to answer, they've asked to miss the first 4 races which goes completely against the FIA's own rules and the agreement which they signed back when they were selected.

Money and grounds are required for a successful law suit - USF1 have neither.

It would be too bad for Campos. The know the rules and they did not meet the requirements. It is not fair to either Virgin or Lotus.

Financing in any all ventures is the first that is required to be sorted out.

Whats the point in allowing teams that have not met requirements and will likely be far slower than any of the new teams that have kept to the agreement? Mobile chicanes are dangerous and part of F1 history. We known better now.

22 cars are fine.

[N. Jones]

Seems to me that the FIA deserves some of the blame though since they are they ones that approved of USF1 for 2010 in the first place.

I would think someone's reputation is at stake if the team fails. Or, maybe someone is hoping to have an "in" to the US market by approving of USF1 when, if my memory serves me, they did not have much financial backing last year.

[Saint Devote]

Seems to me that the FIA deserves some of the blame though since they are they ones that approved of USF1 for 2010 in the first place.

I would think someone's reputation is at stake if the team fails. Or, maybe someone is hoping to have an "in" to the US market by approving of USF1 when, if my memory serves me, they did not have much financial backing last year.

The FIA is involved in the mismanagement of the selection process, but so is Bernie and the teams because nobody dared to raise their voices. As we all aware of the nanny-state that exists in the world today and in the management of F1.

Ultimately, lefist politics in any sphere, ruins and destroys - it does so because it has a parasitic sacrificial nature that seeks out those who are outstanding or courageous and reduces them to mediocrity and nothingness.

The US response or reception to, or interest in F1 is a big as it will ever be. Anyone believing that the existence of a team called "USF1" or that being based in the heartland of Nascar or having an American driver in F1 is going to shift America towards the sport is pretending.

The peak of F1 was in the late 70's to the early 80's when there were at least two US GP's as great tracks like Watkins Glen and Long Beach and the most famous American driver in history, Mario Andretti became world champion with one of the greatest teams ever: Lotus - and even THEN F1 did not take-off.

Interest in F1 retained its usual strong core, able to fill a track but never - and will never - challenge to become a significant entity in American sport.

It is a different culture and the same reason why baseball can never become significant in England or continental Europe or why soccer will always be a "girl's sport" in the US rather than played by boys.

A greater impact will be if there is a grand prix at track that is not attached to something like the Indy 500 or whatever and establishes its own entity as did Watkins Glen.

The USF1 venture is/was a marketing gimmick that regardless if it works/ed will not impact the interest of Americans in any signficantly tangible way.

[Easy Drifter]

Morano: Just how do you propose a team take 2009 tub and put in a 30 to 40 percent larger fuel cell? There just is no room. Then the engine bay needs redesigning for a Cossie. The latter is no big deal but you would need a redesigned tub for fuel and it appears from all reports the USF1 do not have even their own built yet, so modifying an existing tub would be beyond them.

[gravelman]

And these teams got the go ahead before someone with the resources of Prodrive? Theres summat seriously wrong here if this is the case

[Easy Drifter]

There has been so many erronous statements/claims and plain lies come out of USF1 in the last few months I am beginning to wonder if they actually have asked Jean Todt for a four race exemption.
Ken Anderson says they have, but have they?
Right now I wouldn't trust anything coming out of that bunch without proof.

[gloomyDAY]

This is an example of how a competent team conducts business:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81627

Wirth admits that Virgin's reliability problems has eaten away time from their testing program, so they have to play catch-up until Bahrain. Did you read that? Full & honest explanation of the team's setbacks.

I don't think fans are asking for minute details, but just the gist.

[airshifter]

There has been so many erronous statements/claims and plain lies come out of USF1 in the last few months I am beginning to wonder if they actually have asked Jean Todt for a four race exemption.
Ken Anderson says they have, but have they?
Right now I wouldn't trust anything coming out of that bunch without proof.

According to Speed, USF1 did not ask permission to miss the races, they asked for clarification on the rule, which conflicts with the current Concorde Agreement.


http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/fi-usf1-mulls-options/

Maybe if the FIA made things more clear than diffuser regulations everyone would know what might come of this whole mess. :laugh:

[Easy Drifter]

Speed TV with Bob Varsha talking to Nick Craw representing the FIA said USF1 have only asked the FIA for clarification on the missing 3 race rule.
This contrdicts what the NY Times claims Ken Anderson said.
I had not heard this when I made my previous post.
Craw also says the FIA will work with USF1.

[Saint Devote]

Never mind the FIA - it remains to be seen if FOR ONCE Todt actually takes a decision without referring it to committee. We have an FIA chief that is a ditherer and needs consent to do anything.

And of course exactly what are they going to do if the boss of FOM does not sign off on this bs?

I detest special interests, because it ALWAYS is at the cost of those who play fair by the rules.

And should USF1 get their special request granted how can anyone guarantee they will be ready? Are the FIA going to underwrite them too?

Windsor is beginning to look like of those kids at school that would always cry to the teacher and then get their way at the expense of the strong kids.

His stature is quickly beginning to disolve in my eyes.

[Easy Drifter]

Well he is pretty short to begin with. :p :
If Jean/FIA give in to USF1 then Campos can do the same thing and for that matter so could Lotus and Virgin.
I could certainly see Campos asking for a race or two exemption.

[call_me_andrew]

Question: What is the penalty for an unexcused race absense?

[Azumanga Davo]

Morano: Just how do you propose a team take 2009 tub and put in a 30 to 40 percent larger fuel cell? There just is no room. Then the engine bay needs redesigning for a Cossie. The latter is no big deal but you would need a redesigned tub for fuel and it appears from all reports the USF1 do not have even their own built yet, so modifying an existing tub would be beyond them.

I didn't propose it. I just don't think ideas, no matter how barmy, should have been knocked down in that fashion. At least someone had a go at thinking of alternatives than use the typical strategy and call Peter Windsor a lot of names.

[DexDexter]

I didn't propose it. I just don't think ideas, no matter how barmy, should have been knocked down in that fashion. At least someone had a go at thinking of alternatives than use the typical strategy and call Peter Windsor a lot of names.

There was a car called Toyota available to USF1 but they seemingly didn't have the money to buy it. So it's not really about the car being late, it's about the green thing. They don't have it, so old cars or whatever will not help. They're out, unfortunately.

[turismo6]

There was a car called Toyota available to USF1 but they seemingly didn't have the money to buy it. So it's not really about the car being late, it's about the green thing. They don't have it, so old cars or whatever will not help. They're out, unfortunately.

"Didn't they say they started working on their 2010 car before the sale of the Toyota cars"- I'm basing this on no facts

[Sonic]

Question: What is the penalty for an unexcused race absense?

Well its the FIA, so of course it will be a consistent and unambiguous penalty that will be apply fairly year on year :rolleyes:

No one knows what the penalty is - it could range from a slap on the wrist, to a huge fine, to gods knows what.

[SGWilko]

Seems to me that the FIA deserves SOME of the blame though since they are they ones that approved of USF1 for 2010 in the first place..

For FIA read MAX. For some read ALL

[SGWilko]

Never mind the FIA - it remains to be seen if FOR ONCE Todt actually takes a decision without referring it to committee..

Easy now. We want a fair decision, not one where the incumbant calls the shots. That was Max's flaw - he thought he new best when in fact, he was just living out his fantasy and settling scores.

[Dave B]

Question: What is the penalty for an unexcused race absense?
That's the million-dollar question. The rule is clear, but as is so often the case there's no mention of a penalty. I could be exclusion from the Championship, it could be a $5000 fine and immediate cessation of chocolate rations. Farcical, isn't it?

Let's be honest, even if USF1 missed the first four races, never mind three, does anybody seriously think they'd have the money or the staff to build anything remotely approaching a pair of F1 cars?

[Mia 01]

Enough is enough. They got no money, no car and still they got all this attention. Other teams like Lotus has built their car in five months whitout all this fuzz. They are testing now. Missing fore races, holy cow.

[DazzlaF1]

SPEED TV's views on the mess

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid626910340?bctid=67722813001

[Dave B]

Exactly. Lotus and Virgin got on with the job in hand without fuss or fanfare. Ok they might not be the most competitive teams on the grid, but they'll be in Bahrain and have a solid base to build on.

If USF1 had even come close to their achievements then there might be a case for special treatment, but as it stands they haven't even built a working car. To allow them dispensation to skip races makes a mockery of the effort and professionalism shown by Lotus and Virgin.

[DazzlaF1]

Exactly. Lotus and Virgin got on with the job in hand without fuss or fanfare. Ok they might not be the most competitive teams on the grid, but they'll be in Bahrain and have a solid base to build on.

If USF1 had even come close to their achievements then there might be a case for special treatment, but as it stands they haven't even built a working car. To allow them dispensation to skip races makes a mockery of the effort and professionalism shown by Lotus and Virgin.

Absolutely, i'd put Campos in that same bracket too,sure they've not tested the Dallara yet but the takeover proves they've been working their socks off just to be ready for the season opener (in other words, they've had their own problems and they're managing to overcome them), now if they did that and then found out that the Americans were allowed to miss the first 4 races, i'd forgive the Campos team for feeling a bit peeved.

As would Lotus & Virgin, they're a few steps ahead of Campos in the fact that they've built their cars, got complete driver lineups and have taken part in the pre-season group tests, sure they've had their problems with their cars so far but at least they are there and ready to race, and for that they both deserve a hell of a lot of credit.

If Lopez (the american team's only driver at the moment) ends up moving to Campos, then thats USF1 dead in the water in my view.

[jonny hurlock]

Exactly. Lotus and Virgin got on with the job in hand without fuss or fanfare. Ok they might not be the most competitive teams on the grid, but they'll be in Bahrain and have a solid base to build on.

If USF1 had even come close to their achievements then there might be a case for special treatment, but as it stands they haven't even built a working car. To allow them dispensation to skip races makes a mockery of the effort and professionalism shown by Lotus and Virgin.

imo I don't think that will be in f1 at all, there fault in the end of the day, they had a year to organisation them self, also when you have people such as Mike Gascoyne, Nick Wirth and John Booth thats a lot of confidence and reference, compared to Ken Anderson and Peter Windsor with limited reference imo.

[Garry Walker]

Yes, as you say, certainly the criticism is deserved, but not any gloating.

So you have a problem with gloating? That is VERY FUNNY coming from a person who openly said that he would rejoice at the deaths of Margaret Thatcher and George Bush.

So which is worse, being happy that an incompetent team did not make it to F1, or being happy that someone died?


Because you insist, I will even include your quote.


When Margaret Thatcher dies, I want to be able to say 'good' straight away, rather than have to wait until such time as people have stopped saying meaninglessly how awful her decline and death must have been for her racist daughter and arms-dealing son. Were George W. Bush to shuffle on tomorrow, I and many others would also rejoice without any feelings of guilt.

[SGWilko]

So you have a problem with gloating? That is VERY FUNNY coming from a person who openly said that he would rejoice at the deaths of Margaret Thatcher and George Bush.

So which is worse, being happy that an incompetent team did not make it to F1, or being happy that someone died?


Because you insist, I will even include your quote.

Garry, you compare an ex-president - many believe responsible for an illegal war that has seen many killed for the selfish greed of oil reserves - with a failing F1 team for your purposes of demonstrating gloating...

Are you sure????

[Garry Walker]

Garry, you compare an ex-president - many believe responsible for an illegal war that has seen many killed for the selfish greed of oil reserves - with a failing F1 team for your purposes of demonstrating gloating...

Are you sure????

Yes, gloating over a persons death is far worse.

What is his excuse for gloating over Thatchers death?

[SGWilko]

Yes, gloating over a persons death is far worse.

What is his excuse for gloating over Thatchers death?

You don't follow British politics then, do you......?

[BDunnell]

So you have a problem with gloating? That is VERY FUNNY coming from a person who openly said that he would rejoice at the deaths of Margaret Thatcher and George Bush.

So which is worse, being happy that an incompetent team did not make it to F1, or being happy that someone died?

It's all about proportion, but don't let that stop you posting your very amusing (I genuinely mean that) remarks.

[Garry Walker]

It's all about proportion, but don't let that stop you posting your very amusing (I genuinely mean that) remarks.

Proportion indeed.
One is satisfied that F1 wont have a loser team that was obviously filled with people who are not competent enough for F1, the other rejoices over someones death. Proportion indeed.

[BDunnell]

Proportion indeed.
One is satisfied that F1 wont have a loser team that was obviously filled with people who are not competent enough for F1, the other rejoices over someones death. Proportion indeed.

Er... yes.

[SGWilko]

Proportion indeed.
One is satisfied that F1 wont have a loser team that was obviously filled with people who are not competent enough for F1, the other rejoices over someones death. Proportion indeed.

Look, with apologies for continuing to take this OT....

Were you sad when you learned of Adolfs demise.......?

While that is an extreme example, folk that bring misery, death, poverty etc on others should not be sympathised with.

As it was, there was no mention of gloating in the original post.

Shall we put this OT discussion to bed and continue with F1?

[BDunnell]

Thatcher dead?

Not yet.

[SGWilko]

Thatcher dead?

She will have a visit from the taxidermist when the time comes.

[Garry Walker]

Look, with apologies for continuing to take this OT....

While that is an extreme example, folk that bring misery, death, poverty etc on others should not be sympathised with.
Thatcher did that how?

Now my problem with Windsor is that was it not him him who pretty much accused Villeneuve of being a murderer? I dont even like JV at all, but comments such as that were uncalled for.

[SGWilko]

Thatcher did that how?

Now my problem with Windsor is that was it not him him who pretty much accused Villeneuve of being a murderer? I dont even like JV at all, but comments such as that were uncalled for.

Thatcher did what?

I can tell you that dubya sealed the fate of many civilians and soldiers, and Maggs saw to it that entire industries, along with many hard working men and women lost everything they worked for.

Sorry, I alluded to the fact I wouldn't continue, but being the last word freak I am....... ;)

[truefan72]

SPEED TV's views on the mess

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid626910340?bctid=67722813001

that was not speed TV's view nut just a report on what other news outlets have reported so far. Everything Varsha said, we knew already

[DazzlaF1]

that was not speed TV's view nut just a report on what other news outlets have reported so far. Everything Varsha said, we knew already

Sorry bout that, looking back at it you are right about it being a repeat on other news sources.

[truefan72]

Garry Walker

Can I ask you a serous question?

How old are you and what exactly do you know about Bush2 and M.Thatcher for you to ever feel sorry or empathize with these two people. If you have no idea about politics and their real life decisions that affected millions, caused pain and anguish to many and death to many more with useless wars apathy, greed, politics and misguided conservatism then please do not use these as examples in this forum. F1 is a sport and should be kept in that context when discussing things. Don't bring into the discussions things that only make you seem ignorant about real life.

I implore you to read up on them in wiki or do a simple google search and immerse yourself in their history as to be better educated.

Now lets get back to discussing the utter failure of USF1.

and for the record I somewhat agree with your sentiment as to USF1. I am not full of glee at the prospect of folks failing, but neither would I shed a tear about their shambolic existence of USF1 to date. I don't; like others, consider them an F1 team that failed thus requiring my reverence, since you actually have to have a car, 2 drivers and races under your belt before being considered and F1 team. So in that respect both BDunnell and the Saint are at opposite ends of my thinking.

I just don't have to insult them in getting my point across.

[Azumanga Davo]

Erm, so yes, Peter Windsor... :p :

It's a big debacle, all we have seen for this gargantuan effort is... well, a lone receptionist. ;)

Seems genuinely difficult to kick USF1 out until they have gone 4 races missing. So what will happen to the Stefan effort in the meantime? Will they be allowed to start racing from the get go? I reckon they should to be honest. Let them be rewarded for at least having something ready, even if it isn't ideal.

[truefan72]

Sorry bout that, looking back at it you are right about it being a repeat on other news sources.

no biggie, just got excited at the prospect of having the 3 guys discuss the whole USF1 thing, but I suspect that they will temper their analysis of the whole thing or put it in a bit more favorable light since, they are catering to a US audience, and windsor was one of their crew for a few years.

At least they were talking about it :|

[N. Jones]

For FIA read MAX. For some read ALL

:laugh: I WAS trying to be nice. :D

[Blancvino]

Garry Walker

Can I ask you a serous question?

How old are you and what exactly do you know about Bush2 and M.Thatcher for you to ever feel sorry or empathize with these two people. If you have no idea about politics and their real life decisions that affected millions, caused pain and anguish to many and death to many more with useless wars apathy, greed, politics and misguided conservatism then please do not use these as examples in this forum. F1 is a sport and should be kept in that context when discussing things. Don't bring into the discussions things that only make you seem ignorant about real life.

I implore you to read up on them in wiki or do a simple google search and immerse yourself in their history as to be better educated.

Now lets get back to discussing the utter failure of USF1.

and for the record I somewhat agree with your sentiment as to USF1. I am not full of glee at the prospect of folks failing, but neither would I shed a tear about their shambolic existence of USF1 to date. I don't; like others, consider them an F1 team that failed thus requiring my reverence, since you actually have to have a car, 2 drivers and races under your belt before being considered and F1 team. So in that respect both BDunnell and the Saint are at opposite ends of my thinking.

I just don't have to insult them in getting my point across.

But you still got your political dig in. Priceless!

Your attitude exemplifies why so much seems to be polarized these days.

[SGWilko]

:laugh: I WAS trying to be nice. :D

You did very well - wheras I am just plain crass, and proud of it. ;) :laugh:

[SGWilko]

so much seems to be polarized these days.

Sunglasses? ;)

[e2mtt]

I'm disappointed - I was hoping to cheer for them to someday not be last on the grid & even score a point or two. (I also would have liked to visit the shop if it was open for visitors.) The operation seemed like a good idea that just wasn't managed worth anything.

This just illustrates a larger problem with the administration of Formula One - the hyper-expensive dictatorial top-down management. They use a flawed & political awarding of a "franchise" type permission to race. Teams got accepted that aren't going to ever make the grid, while others have their funding, equipment, & management in place, yet can't proceed because they don't have official approval. USF1 quite possible already spent more money getting FIA approval then they will ever spend getting a car racing.

How much better if any team in the world could show up with a car built to spec? If they could submit to & pass a crash test, pass race-week scrutineering, and qualify, they should race. Once they score a point, then they get F1 travel money, a guaranteed grid spot, and a place at the award & bargaining tables.

It kinda the same way with racing venues. Formula 1 demands an astronomically exorbitant fee for the privilege of being hosted, so much so that most of the races are now government (re: taxpayer/people's treasury) supported and not commercially viable. What ever happened to getting a cut of the gate, especially as they get TV money too. We end up without races at great tracks and near true fans.

I will be rooting for Virgin (who seem to be doing everything that USF1 was supposed to do, but actually doing it) and Lotus (because they are Lotus, duh) because new teams are exciting.

[Saint Devote]

I'm disappointed - I was hoping to cheer for them to someday not be last on the grid & even score a point or two. (I also would have liked to visit the shop if it was open for visitors.) The operation seemed like a good idea that just wasn't managed worth anything.

This just illustrates a larger problem with the administration of Formula One - the hyper-expensive dictatorial top-down management. They use a flawed & political awarding of a "franchise" type permission to race. Teams got accepted that aren't going to ever make the grid, while others have their funding, equipment, & management in place, yet can't proceed because they don't have official approval. USF1 quite possible already spent more money getting FIA approval then they will ever spend getting a car racing.

How much better if any team in the world could show up with a car built to spec? If they could submit to & pass a crash test, pass race-week scrutineering, and qualify, they should race. Once they score a point, then they get F1 travel money, a guaranteed grid spot, and a place at the award & bargaining tables.

It kinda the same way with racing venues. Formula 1 demands an astronomically exorbitant fee for the privilege of being hosted, so much so that most of the races are now government (re: taxpayer/people's treasury) supported and not commercially viable. What ever happened to getting a cut of the gate, especially as they get TV money too. We end up without races at great tracks and near true fans.

I will be rooting for Virgin (who seem to be doing everything that USF1 was supposed to do, but actually doing it) and Lotus (because they are Lotus, duh) because new teams are exciting.

Although I could never understand why someone will support a team or driver just because they are from the same country :confused: I do understand your disappointment.

F1 used to be a sport where people could buy cars, form a team and just turn up - thats how, for example, Williams began. Cars could also be constructed, enter and try to qualify - there was no such thing as a "crash test". The FIA as constituted today did not exist - thank God!

F1 was different than today in culture, attitude and approach.

But you know that things change and especially in a world where government intrusion is rife and moving worldwide for decades now further and further away from liberty.

Nothing in isolation - as capitalism is destroyed you cannot expect the most capitalistic of all world sports, formula one, not to be affected.

Hence you have the FIA. Welcome to hell.

[Civic]

I don't understand all the politics and money stuff, but if a place wants to host a Grand Prix, they pay to have the race there and provide a place for the race, yet they don't get money in return?

So it's like if the star quarterback and the captain of the cheerleaders want to have a graduation party at my place, I pay them to have the party at my place. They charger partygoers an admission fee, and I get nothing in return?

[SGWilko]

I don't understand all the politics and money stuff, but if a place wants to host a Grand Prix, they pay to have the race there and provide a place for the race, yet they don't get money in return?

So it's like if the star quarterback and the captain of the cheerleaders want to have a graduation party at my place, I pay them to have the party at my place. They charger partygoers an admission fee, and I get nothing in return?

Not quite, you get to keep the money from sales at the gates - no less, no more.

[e2mtt]

I don't understand all the politics and money stuff, but if a place wants to host a Grand Prix, they pay to have the race there and provide a place for the race, yet they don't get money in return?

So it's like if the star quarterback and the captain of the cheerleaders want to have a graduation party at my place, I pay them to have the party at my place. They charger partygoers an admission fee, and I get nothing in return?

Pretty close. Formula One (as owned by Bernie Ecclestone) gets a flat fee of about $20 million PLUS all of the advertising money on signs PLUS all the TV revenue. Reportedly the venue pays Bernie an average of $45 MILLION to host the race. (Singapore paid $90 million last year?) The only way any track can raise that money is by getting the local governments or large corporate advertisers to pitch in. The races are huge money losers, that get written off as advertising & publicity for the cities & companies involved. Meanwhile Bernie & CVC & the Formula One Group (which is not FIA) show more then a $1 BILLION in profits a year.

This is from memory, some of my numbers may be a little off. Sorry about the thread-hijack.

[milly]

Pretty close. Formula One (as owned by Bernie Ecclestone) gets a flat fee of about $20 million PLUS all of the advertising money on signs PLUS all the TV revenue. Reportedly the venue pays Bernie an average of $45 MILLION to host the race. (Singapore paid $90 million last year?) The only way any track can raise that money is by getting the local governments or large corporate advertisers to pitch in. The races are huge money losers, that get written off as advertising & publicity for the cities & companies involved. Meanwhile Bernie & CVC & the Formula One Group (which is not FIA) show more then a $1 BILLION in profits a year.

This is from memory, some of my numbers may be a little off. Sorry about the thread-hijack.

FOM (Bernie) gets a sanction fee to have the race at the venue (Silverstone pays just under $20m for 2010 race, and an annual escalation at 7% per year, for 17 years.....).

FOM sells all trackside signage and keeps 100% revenue.

FOM sells premium rate Paddock Club VIP hospitality and keeps 100% revenue - the venue can sell second-level hospitality.

Merchandise - venues can rent sites to retailers; FOM licenses some retailers for official F1 merchandise.

On-site food and beverage - circuit keeps revenue.

[milly]

FOM (Bernie) gets a sanction fee to have the race at the venue (Silverstone pays just under $20m for 2010 race, and an annual escalation at 7% per year, for 17 years.....).

FOM sells all trackside signage and keeps 100% revenue.

FOM sells premium rate Paddock Club VIP hospitality and keeps 100% revenue - the venue can sell second-level hospitality.

Merchandise - venues can rent sites to retailers; FOM licenses some retailers for official F1 merchandise.

On-site food and beverage - circuit keeps revenue.


Also, sanction fees vary across events:

Malaysia and Abu Dhabi pay approx $45m in 2009.

Monaco pays nothing.

Monza pays about $5m.

Average price is $20m across the season.

[christophulus]

Assuming WTF1 isn't going to race (and it's a fairly safe bet), what happens now? Just handing the entry to Stefan GP would be a bit of a risk as they haven't really come out with anything more than a repainted Toyota chassis, and no mention of where their funding is going to come from. If USF1 fail with the backing of Youtube, I'm sceptical as to how an unheard of Serbian entry can find the cash any better.

Edit: just noticed the other thread on this :s

[DexDexter]

Although I could never understand why someone will support a team or driver just because they are from the same country :confused: I do understand your disappointment.
.

Really? That's the most logical thing in the world. You support a driver who has something in common with you, language, habits etc. There is nothing strange about that.

[Easy Drifter]

Youtube are not involved with USF1.
The former owner and founder of Youtube personally is or was. Right now nobody knows what the h--- is going on.
Anderson says he has asked for a 4 race exemption.
Nick Craw, acting for the FIA say only a clarification of the confusing situation on missing the first 3 races has been requested.
Nobody, including Anderson, seems to know what if anything Windbag is doing or where he is.
Rumours say there is not even one viable tub let alone anything else.
This cannot be verified or disproven.
Of course this is from the most open and fan friendly team ever.

Years ago as an F Atlantic mechanic I was through the March and Ensign F1 factories with no hassle. Shot the breeze with Mo Nunn.
Was also through Chevron and had lunch with Derek Bennett and Paul Owen. Man were they ever secretive and hostile people. :D

[christophulus]

A USF1 "insider" has given his/her insights.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81664


"At the moment there are still 60 people working in Charlotte, but 10 have already left."

"Having failed to put out a car, sponsorship money didn't materialise," continued the staff member. "That wasn't for Windsor's lack of trying.

"I do know that Windsor was told of our progress on a number of occasions off the record in informal settings, but it took a very contentious shop meeting in late January/early February for him to twig [that] indeed we had an issue.

"In a meeting between the employees, Windsor and Anderson, Windsor put the question up to the employees: 'Who here doesn't think we'll make Bahrain?' I think Windsor might have meant it somewhat rhetorically, but he was answered nonetheless, and 100 per cent of the staff raised their hands. He was visibly shocked."

[Sonic]

"The story that the employee tells is certainly twisted and one-sided," said Anderson.

Hardly inspiring stuff is it?? :mad: Wise up man - you've f*%ked it up

[Easy Drifter]

This unamed employee, who must be legit, confirms what has been posted in forums by other people who claim to be employees. Autosport, I expect, would be sure they were getting info from a trusted source.
The 'other' posters said basically the same thing but there is no proof that they are not the same person as the Autosport informant. Highly unlikely though.
All indications point to Anderson as the main problem.
Again what he claimed to the NY Times is contradicted by what Nick Craw says.
If there really is anything resembling a complete car or even a proper tub it would be easy for USF1 to post pictures on the web site.

[DazzlaF1]

Reading on in that article, this little quote from Anderson


"Given the late start due to the FIA/FOTA situation of 2009, I asked everybody to keep the car simple, strong and reliable. The comment that the chassis moulds sat for a month while waiting for a lay-up schedule is exactly the sort of thing that hurt us. Way too complex and time consuming. I did question why it was so complex if it was not necessary.

Thats nice of you Anderson, criticise what is left of your already under pressure workforce http://www.footballbanter247.co.uk/forum//style_emoticons/default/doh.gif

[Mark in Oshawa]

Windsor asked "Who doesn't think we will make Bahrain?" and was SHOCKED at the hands shown? THAT is a man who is swimming in the wrong water.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I can see this all ending very badly with lots of lawsuits and lawyers....

[CCWS77]

In this multinational forum I have to say I am ashamed to see a U.S. flag next to comments that excuse and condone wishful thinking about the death of public figures. Check the thread again because it was not Gary Walker who first used politics as an example to talk about an F1 team. It was a clearly liberal poster in favor of policies, people or sports teams that they don't agree with failing or dieing. An enlightened view in favor of the failure of others.
:rolleyes:

How about instead, as some have suggested, letting anyone show up and the winner will be determined on merits. It seems such a straightforward policy is opposed by those who wish to have the power to force others to fail through politics.




How old are you and what exactly do you know about Bush2 and M.Thatcher for you to ever feel sorry or empathize with these two people. If you have no idea about politics and their real life decisions that affected millions, caused pain and anguish to many and death to many more with useless wars apathy, greed, politics and misguided conservatism then please do not use these as examples in this forum. F1 is a sport and should be kept in that context when discussing things. Don't bring into the discussions things that only make you seem ignorant about real life.

[Easy Drifter]

Anderson says the tub was too complex and that was the reason the lay up schedule took a month to be approved. Not his exact words but the only way to take them. That does not make sense. The complexity should not affect the scheduling of the work. The time to do the lay up, yes but not the scheduling unless he told them to redesign the tub.
Again for a good part of the period he was the main designer and according to leaked info had to approve everything. So how did we get a supposedly overly complex tub?
Again leaked reports have said his thinking is 20 years out of date and he will not listen to staff with current F1 experience.
We know what he said to the NY Times about allowing the team to miss 4 races has been contradicted by Nick Craw on behalf of the FIA.
We know his resume on the USF1 web site is more than a little overblown.
I am doubting anything he says.

[gloomyDAY]

Oh so all it takes is for someone to care and magically the funding and everything else will fall into place. If you say so Peter Pan. I bet you thought Tinkerbell could be saved by believing in fairies too.

GaryYou should read the article recently posted in Autosport. I hope you're still not sticking your head in the sand, Gary. Make fun of me all you want, but face the facts, Windsor is clueless and along with Anderson, liars.


Our January 15 pay cheque was late. It was paid by the 20th or so, but it certainly caused commotion and people started asking questions.That's when all the company's issues came to a head, and the conclusion was... yes, we had been lied to about the long-term budget, and indeed the company had a cash flow issue. But as mentioned, that really was a secondary issue.I guess people don't have mortgages to pay. :confused:

[Riley]

Employee walks past Anderson in corridor at USF1

Anderson: "Hello ****** how's it going?
Employee: "well, I just missed my first ever mortgage payment"
Anderson: "but apart from that, how's it going?"

[ShiftingGears]

Windsor asked "Who doesn't think we will make Bahrain?" and was SHOCKED at the hands shown? THAT is a man who is swimming in the wrong water.

He is quite out of his depth, but from what I've read I hold him in higher regard than I do Anderson.

[CNR]

He is quite out of his depth, but from what I've read I hold him in higher regard than I do Anderson.

watch what you say he might be inline for more time on oneHD / 10

[ShiftingGears]

watch what you say he might be inline for more time on oneHD / 10

Yikes!

[Saint Devote]

Question is how can the FIA determine that it is okay for both USF1 and Campos to miss requirements and yet in the future rule?

Missing all the tests ought to be a significant penalty and for teams that will have drivers that are as novice as can be.

And the FIA says nothing?

Ferrari have every right to be annoyed at the amateur approach of these teams and the incompetance of the FIA.

Its good to have teams that will likely be many seconds behaind the rest of the grid? The "mobile chicane" division.

[CNR]

i think it is time to rename this thread
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=39994

The Locstein Group, which was said to be one of the primary sponsors of the beleaguered US F1 team has officially confirmed that it has chosen to withdraw

because it is pitpass i have looked for other links



Gerucht: USF1 verliest hoofdsponsor (http://www.formule1nieuws.nl/modules/news/article.php?storyid=31847)

Formule 1 nieuws - ‎17 hours ago‎
Volgens Autoevolution.com heeft hoofdsponsor Locstein Group zich teruggetrokken uit het Amerikaanse F1 project. Het Zwitserse bedrijf zou 10 miljoen dollar ...



Où en est USF1? (http://www.f1-instinct.com/?p=5558)

F1-instinct.com - ‎17 hours ago‎
Cette nouvelle rumeur indiquerait que Locstein Group AG, société de services financiers basée à Genève aurait pu injecter une forte somme en sponsoring dans ...



http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.formule1nieuws.nl%2Fmodules%2Fn ews%2Farticle.php%3Fstoryid%3D31847

What can go wrong, USF1 error. The American formula one team must incorporate a new setback. Locstein Group officially confirmed no longer has to be part of the USF1 project. The Swiss company would like to donate $ 10 million, money that could use USF1 well.

[F1boat]

Question is how can the FIA determine that it is okay for both USF1 and Campos to miss requirements and yet in the future rule?

Missing all the tests ought to be a significant penalty and for teams that will have drivers that are as novice as can be.

And the FIA says nothing?

Ferrari have every right to be annoyed at the amateur approach of these teams and the incompetance of the FIA.

Its good to have teams that will likely be many seconds behaind the rest of the grid? The "mobile chicane" division.

FIA - WTF1 international assistance... ;)

[SGWilko]

FIA grew some.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81677

[Sonic]

Well if the situation is as dire as it has been suggested then this inspection will have only one outcome - the end of USF1.

I feel so sorry for the workers and fans of USF1 who clearly so wanted this to work but they have been screwed over by Windsor.

[BDunnell]

Question is how can the FIA determine that it is okay for both USF1 and Campos to miss requirements and yet in the future rule?

Missing all the tests ought to be a significant penalty and for teams that will have drivers that are as novice as can be.

And the FIA says nothing?

Ferrari have every right to be annoyed at the amateur approach of these teams and the incompetance of the FIA.

Its good to have teams that will likely be many seconds behaind the rest of the grid? The "mobile chicane" division.

A similar division to that occupied by Ferrari at certain points of their not always glorious F1 history, let's not forget. A bit of historical perspective wouldn't go amiss.

[BDunnell]

Well if the situation is as dire as it has been suggested then this inspection will have only one outcome - the end of USF1.

I feel so sorry for the workers and fans of USF1 who clearly so wanted this to work but they have been screwed over by Windsor.

Why only one person screwing them over? By all accounts, blame can't be apportioned that easily.

[Sonic]

Why only one person screwing them over? By all accounts, blame can't be apportioned that easily.

Well I could've gone on (and did for a while before I deleted it) but the fact remains that this project - whilst a brilliant idea - was doomed by terrible mismanagement.

[BDunnell]

Well I could've gone on (and did for a while before I deleted it) but the fact remains that this project - whilst a brilliant idea - was doomed by terrible mismanagement.

Agreed, but certainly not just by Windsor.

[Sonic]

Agreed, but certainly not just by Windsor.

True. I just can't understand how, with such a unclear business plan, they made it through the FIA's vetting system.

[christophulus]

FIA grew some.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81677

Must be a significant time delay between the US and the rest of the world. USF1's plans have been highly questionable for some time, along with Campos, and the FIA really should've been more pro-active in looking into how the preparations are going along.

The FIA are going to come out of this looking just as bad as the USF1 management.

[truefan72]

Windsor asked "Who doesn't think we will make Bahrain?" and was SHOCKED at the hands shown? THAT is a man who is swimming in the wrong water.

lol

[truefan72]

True. I just can't understand how, with such a unclear business plan, they made it through the FIA's vetting system.

Well, thank Max Mosley for that.
Add to that blackmailing teams to use cosworth, and refusing entry tot hose that didn't want to, add to that a hasty decision to try and undermine FOTA, lack of a serous vetting process, etc, etc, etc.

Now Campos and USF1 can claim that they thought the economic climate would be different and at the time, Mosley was pushing for a ridiculously low budget cap on all teams, but what these two groups failed to understand ( and that's a pretty amateurish mistake to make) is that starting up a team, along with required cost is far more of daunting an expensive task, than running a team wiht a set budget. Seems to me that never took into account the immense startup costs required to get a team operational. There is blame to go all the way around 40% Mad Max and 60% the teams, who should have known (as many other did a long time ago) that they were far, far from qualified to be a proper F1 team.

[truefan72]

Must be a significant time delay between the US and the rest of the world. USF1's plans have been highly questionable for some time, along with Campos, and the FIA really should've been more pro-active in looking into how the preparations are going along.

The FIA are going to come out of this looking just as bad as the USF1 management.

yep, pretty much. But they can put away their embarrassment by allowing Stefan GP in an nixing USF1's entry for 2010, whilst placing them on a reserve list for 2011. People, media,fans will soon forget about the USF1 debacle and focus on Stefan GP. If the fIA do the right thing people will be more forgiving. and Jean Todt has a great excuse to blame the misgiving on, namely the former president.

the sooner they do this the better for the integrity of the sport and the sooner we will forget about the mess and focus on 26 cars in 2010

[BDunnell]

True. I just can't understand how, with such a unclear business plan, they made it through the FIA's vetting system.

I find the whole thing, as described in the 'insider' account linked to earlier in the thread, quite astonishing to be honest. Even leaving aside completely the FIA's vetting process, and to some extent the USF1 business plan, it is clear that certain senior people in the team just didn't do their work anything like on time, and as a result the car simply didn't materialise. How on earth was this allowed to go unchecked? That is where the FIA then comes in. I am loathe to be too critical of the FIA at present, as I see nothing so far in Todt's presidency to object to and reckon there's quite a bit in his approach to be pleased about, but in the USF1 case it has fallen down on the job, and badly.

[Sonic]

Well, thank Max Mosley for that.
Add to that blackmailing teams to use cosworth, and refusing entry tot hose that didn't want to, add to that a hasty decision to try and undermine FOTA, lack of a serous vetting process, etc, etc, etc.

Now Campos and USF1 can claim that they thought the economic climate would be different and at the time, Mosley was pushing for a ridiculously low budget cap on all teams, but what these two groups failed to understand ( and that's a pretty amateurish mistake to make) is that starting up a team, along with required cost is far more of daunting an expensive task, than running a team wiht a set budget. Seems to me that never took into account the immense startup costs required to get a team operational. There is blame to go all the way around 40% Mad Max and 60% the teams, who should have known (as many other did a long time ago) that they were far, far from qualified to be a proper F1 team.

That about sums it up.

[Saint Devote]

Actually two out of four new ventures in such a difficult arena is not a bad strike rate at all in business terms. Quite good actually.

And those succeeding have clearly in common, stuctures that the other two do not.

As usual Bernie was correct.

[truefan72]

Actually two out of four new ventures in such a difficult arena is not a bad strike rate at all in business terms. Quite good actually.

not really,

the process is supposed to be set up to have a 100% success rate in terms of participation and having cars on the grid. If the teams turn out to be perennial loser or disorganized so be it. But the vetting process and process should have ensured that all teams approved for entry would be at the first GP with cars and such.

So I'm not satisfied with a 50% success rate with 2 teams struggling to make the grid. Especially when you know they denied other teams that surely would have been better prepared and ready to go. It is a failure by those involved in the fIA at that time and their decisions reflect poorly on F1.

It wasn't like these were the only 2 option they had left and we should be thankful that 2 out of 4 made it. They chose those particular teams and they surely knew what they where doing ...or did they?

[Saint Devote]

not really,

the process is supposed to be set up to have a 100% success rate in terms of participation and having cars on the grid. If the teams turn out to be perennial loser or disorganized so be it. But the vetting process and process should have ensured that all teams approved for entry would be at the first GP with cars and such.

So I'm not satisfied with a 50% success rate with 2 teams struggling to make the grid. Especially when you know they denied other teams that surely would have been better prepared and ready to go. It is a failure by those involved in the fIA at that time and their decisions reflect poorly on F1.

It wasn't like these were the only 2 option they had left and we should be thankful that 2 out of 4 made it. They chose those particular teams and they surely knew what they where doing ...or did they?

Nobody is privy to the reasons why the FIA chose the way they did and no system can achieve 100%.

Its not that important really - two new teams this year in good nick are great. Maybe for next season two better selections or even one will arise.

Good things, sometimes, take time :D

[Hawkmoon]

Its not that important really - two new teams this year in good nick are great.

I wouldn't be so quick to say Virgin and Lotus are in great shape. Lotus don't appear to have much sponsorship aside from government backing and I find that concerning. Public funding can be fickle as it only takes a change government attitiude and the money's gone.

Virgin have solid backing from Branson and hopefully he'll play it similar to Mateschitz and they'll be around for a long time. What makes me worry is that Branson opted out of Brawn title sponsorship because it got too pricey for him. Is he really in this for the long haul?

Yes Virgin and Lotus should be applauded for getting a new car onto the test track in 2010. I think the proof of the pudding will be whether they get a car onto the test track in 2011.

[Saint Devote]

I wouldn't be so quick to say Virgin and Lotus are in great shape. Lotus don't appear to have much sponsorship aside from government backing and I find that concerning. Public funding can be fickle as it only takes a change government attitiude and the money's gone.

Virgin have solid backing from Branson and hopefully he'll play it similar to Mateschitz and they'll be around for a long time. What makes me worry is that Branson opted out of Brawn title sponsorship because it got too pricey for him. Is he really in this for the long haul?

Yes Virgin and Lotus should be applauded for getting a new car onto the test track in 2010. I think the proof of the pudding will be whether they get a car onto the test track in 2011.

Government backing of F1 from the East is pretty solid. Generally these nations do not have a squeamish population worrying that the sky will fall as does Europe and the Unoted States.

Those ruling tend to do so for quite a while and consider something like F1 to be a great way to promote the country.

Branson said that he is in it to succeed and he understands well given his ventures. I dont see the point of worrying what may not happen in three years time.

Well he opted out of Brawn because he likes new ventures and this is one that he owns. He is like Mallyah and Mateschitsz, the new F1 independent.

The proof is that they have presented cars and will be on the grid at Sakhir.

Why do you keep worrying about next year and what may not happen?

The future is now - take good care of it and the rest will take care of itself.

[Dave B]

From Twitter:

5LiveF1 We are hearing a rumour that USF1 may merge with a team, but not Stefan GP like everyone expects...

Nothing more that that right now, but could be interesting.

[christophulus]

From Twitter:

5LiveF1 We are hearing a rumour that USF1 may merge with a team, but not Stefan GP like everyone expects...

Nothing more that that right now, but could be interesting.

Well Lopez has been linked to Campos, so maybe Hurley and co are taking their money over there. Or Sauber? Their long term future isn't exactly set in stone.

[SGWilko]

I find the whole thing, as described in the 'insider' account linked to earlier in the thread, quite astonishing to be honest. Even leaving aside completely the FIA's vetting process, and to some extent the USF1 business plan, it is clear that certain senior people in the team just didn't do their work anything like on time, and as a result the car simply didn't materialise. How on earth was this allowed to go unchecked? That is where the FIA then comes in. I am loathe to be too critical of the FIA at present, as I see nothing so far in Todt's presidency to object to and reckon there's quite a bit in his approach to be pleased about, but in the USF1 case it has fallen down on the job, and badly.

If the FIA deemed it appropriate to have an observer in McLaren because of Alonso's crying, why did they not consider an observer for all new teams to monitor progress?

[Saint Devote]

If the FIA deemed it appropriate to have an observer in McLaren because of Alonso's crying, why did they not consider an observer for all new teams to monitor progress?

Because the FIA are a capricious body that shows favor and rules through the power of its "court" like a modern day Star Council.

It is high time that the people who actually participate in racing stand-up and stop being docile gormless individuals, to create another governing body that has motor racing in its interests.

[Dave B]

USF1 "on the verge of collapse" according to the BBC:



The new US F1 team will almost certainly not race this season as doubts increase about their future.

They will not make any of the first four races, are two months away from having a car and have insufficient funds, BBC Sport has learned.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8536567.stm

Meanwhile the few remaining staff are whiling away the time making a toaster:



A source close to US F1 tells me that the factory staff in Charlotte are in the process of making the toaster immortalised by a series of satirical cartoons on YouTube in recent months. And yes, I am serious…

Short of anything else to do related to their F1 car some team members are said to be working on the composite moulds for the prototype toaster, which if true at least demonstrates that the guys on the shop floor have a sense of humour.

Source: http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/02/25/us-f1-were-making-the-toaster/

[BDunnell]

Government backing of F1 from the East is pretty solid. Generally these nations do not have a squeamish population worrying that the sky will fall as does Europe and the Unoted States.

Those ruling tend to do so for quite a while and consider something like F1 to be a great way to promote the country.

But, your enthusiasm for these countries notwithstanding, their economic sky can very easily fall in, as demonstrated on several occasions.



Branson said that he is in it to succeed and he understands well given his ventures. I dont see the point of worrying what may not happen in three years time.

Well he opted out of Brawn because he likes new ventures and this is one that he owns. He is like Mallyah and Mateschitsz, the new F1 independent.

And, again, not everything Branson touches turns to gold. He is well known for enjoying short bursts of big publicity. I hope the Manor F1 tie-up turns out to be one of his longer-term ventures. It deserves to be.

[Mia 01]

USF1 "on the verge of collapse" according to the BBC:



Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8536567.stm

Meanwhile the few remaining staff are whiling away the time making a toaster:


Source: http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/02/25/us-f1-were-making-the-toaster/
It´s only a confirmation.

[Riley]

It's D Day today. Big staff meeting after CW's visit on Wednesday.

[truefan72]

It's D Day today. Big staff meeting after CW's visit on Wednesday.

I think we will get an announcement Monday stating that Stefan GP is in, which of course will be tough for them as they will miss official testing. I hope the fIA allows them to do their own necessary testing in Portugal as planned

[Riley]

It's not over yet, it would seem. Details for others to fill in, if you know what I mean.

[ykiki]

It's not over yet, it would seem. Details for others to fill in, if you know what I mean.

Dang - I don't know what you mean!

[nigelred5]

Sounds like the FIA wants to save face and allow USF1 to continue on in some form. Dallara anyone? :rolleyes:

[jens]

The biggest weaknesses in the F1 projects of USF1 and Campos has been the management - and the incompetence of team principals Campos and Windsor. There has been one major flaw in their pursue of F1 dream. Nowadays if you want to start an F1 team from scratch, a strong partnership with a big-name sponsor must exist right from the getgo (Stewart - Ford, Super Aguri - Honda, Lotus - AirAsia/Malaysia, Manor - Virgin, even that disastrous Lola - MasterCard effort). Talks like "don't worry, we will find some money soon", counts for nothing and will scare all potential backers further away due to lack of seriousness of the project. An F1 project must have some guarantees already from the planning-phase.

To be honest, USF1 has looked like a "project of hopeless dreamers" from day one, when Windsor and Anderson introduced the team in February '09 - "We have wanted to have an F1 team for ages, so let's see, what we can do. We claim to have some money, but we don't say, from who it is. We will prove that Americans can do it on their own. Blah-blah-blah." If I was a potential sponsor looking F1 exposure, I would have avoided them like plague from then on.

[Mia 01]

The biggest weaknesses in the F1 projects of USF1 and Campos has been the management - and the incompetence of team principals Campos and Windsor. There has been one major flaw in their pursue of F1 dream. Nowadays if you want to start an F1 team from scratch, a strong partnership with a big-name sponsor must exist right from the getgo (Stewart - Ford, Super Aguri - Honda, Lotus - AirAsia/Malaysia, Manor - Virgin, even that disastrous Lola - MasterCard effort). Talks like "don't worry, we will find some money soon", counts for nothing and will scare all potential backers further away due to lack of seriousness of the project. An F1 project must have some guarantees already from the planning-phase.

To be honest, USF1 has looked like a "project of hopeless dreamers" from day one, when Windsor and Anderson introduced the team in February '09 - "We have wanted to have an F1 team for ages, so let's see, what we can do. We claim to have some money, but we don't say, from who it is. We will prove that Americans can do it on their own. Blah-blah-blah." If I was a potential sponsor looking F1 exposure, I would have avoided them like plague from then on.
Agreed!

[Dave B]

8th October 2009:


Call me an old cynic, but I'll be amazed if they're present for more than a couple of races. Actually I'll be amazed if the turn out to be any better than 1997-stylee Lola.

I hate to say "I told you so" :uhoh:

[jens]

The sad part of the whole saga is that it may scare possible American involvement in F1 further away in the short(ish) future at least. US is a proud nation and they deserve a proper racing team, not a joke like this. What a shame. Ken Anderson has also a history of uncompleted racing cars (if we remember that Falcon project). USF1 has at times been compared to the likes Life and Andrea Moda, but let me tell this - they are actually worse. At least Life and Moda made it to F1 races, even if their cars barely managed to get further than exiting the pits. :p :

[Dave B]

Meanwhile, if Twitter rumour is to be belived, Lopez is off to Campos:

@legardj Campos have engines! Cosworth delivered to Dallara yesterday. Shakedown may be in Bahrain. Told Lopez for Senna. Nobody confirming

[christophulus]

Meanwhile, if Twitter rumour is to be belived, Lopez is off to Campos

I'm amazed Senna hasn't been able to drum up some sponsorship and is on course to be dislodged by Lopez, who no one has ever heard of.

[Saint Devote]

The sad part of the whole saga is that it may scare possible American involvement in F1 further away in the short(ish) future at least. US is a proud nation and they deserve a proper racing team, not a joke like this. What a shame. Ken Anderson has also a history of uncompleted racing cars (if we remember that Falcon project). USF1 has at times been compared to the likes Life and Andrea Moda, but let me tell this - they are actually worse. At least Life and Moda made it to F1 races, even if their cars barely managed to get further than exiting the pits. :p :

Europeans have a quaint idea of the United States. We live in a VAST nation in a country the size of a continent with such diversity that people in New York City can have little in common with folks in rural Georgia - other than being Americans.

So the "nation" as such "feels" nothing about whether there is an American F1 team or not or whether it would win or not.

But there is a hardcore of knowledgeable F1 supporters who love F1 and were responsible down the years of supporting the US GP in places like Watkins Glen and Long Beach and even somewhat Detroit for a while. They did not take kindly to Dallas or a Las Vegas car park.

For a team from the United States to make its presence in F1, it will probably take time to find finance, it will require the principal to be a Chip Ganassi or Roger Penske and only then, can any project begin to move.

And anyway, Penske is a winner as a constructor in F1. America's "Mclaren team" would succeed again.

[nigelred5]

Have to agree with Saint Devote. Many that have never visited the US have no idea of how large the US truly is or how different it is from region to region, state to state, even neighboring city to city.

USF1 might have a bit more of a chance at success if the team principal waving the American Flag was himself an American. Penske far and away could have put together a respectable F1 effort again. His Indycar team of the early 90's tat built their own chassis season after season was nothing shy of an F1 effort, even if they were built in england.

[truefan72]

Europeans have a quaint idea of the United States. We live in a VAST nation in a country the size of a continent with such diversity that people in New York City can have little in common with folks in rural Georgia - other than being Americans.

So the "nation" as such "feels" nothing about whether there is an American F1 team or not or whether it would win or not.

But there is a hardcore of knowledgeable F1 supporters who love F1 and were responsible down the years of supporting the US GP in places like Watkins Glen and Long Beach and even somewhat Detroit for a while. They did not take kindly to Dallas or a Las Vegas car park.

For a team from the United States to make its presence in F1, it will probably take time to find finance, it will require the principal to be a Chip Ganassi or Roger Penske and only then, can any project begin to move.

And anyway, Penske is a winner as a constructor in F1. America's "Mclaren team" would succeed again.

well said

[truefan72]

Have to agree with Saint Devote. Many that have never visited the US have no idea of how large the US truly is or how different it is from region to region, state to state, even neighboring city to city.

USF1 might have a bit more of a chance at success if the team principal waving the American Flag was himself an American. Penske far and away could have put together a respectable F1 effort again. His Indycar team of the early 90's tat built their own chassis season after season was nothing shy of an F1 effort, even if they were built in england.

yep. If you were to tell me a US group was going to enter F1 , I would have said Penske, Gannassi, or Andretti Green, maybe even Rahal Letterman. but I would not have guessed a bunch of fringe F1 guys with no backing, no real operation or mechanism for raising funds, no built in followers and supporters, no heritage from a rich US motorsports heritage, etc etc. would be the ones trying to call themselves USF1 and wave the American flag in a contrived way to build support whilst lacking in every department. A while back I was giving them flack for not actually employing US drivers, etc but I can now see how, scott speed, Andretti, Busch, and others might have asked some questions about USF1 and chosen to walk far away from the enterprise. Might also explain the snarly statement they made about no US drivers capable or worthy of super licenses.

[Easy Drifter]

Posted on another forum.
Attempted to call the factory. The phone line has been disconnected.
This poster had talked to the receptionist before. :(

[DexDexter]

Have to agree with Saint Devote. Many that have never visited the US have no idea of how large the US truly is or how different it is from region to region, state to state, even neighboring city to city.

USF1 might have a bit more of a chance at success if the team principal waving the American Flag was himself an American. Penske far and away could have put together a respectable F1 effort again. His Indycar team of the early 90's tat built their own chassis season after season was nothing shy of an F1 effort, even if they were built in england.

No offence but remember that many of us Europeans travel a lot more than you guys and learn geography much more as well, at least in this country, so we know exactly how large and diverse the US is. And the diversity is still pretty small compared to the differences between different European countries.

[petar74]

No offence but remember that many of us Europeans travel a lot more than you guys and learn geography much more as well, at least in this country, so we know exactly how large and diverse the US is. And the diversity is still pretty small compared to the differences between different European countries.

I definatly have to agree,we have an idea of the size of US ,still EUrope as hole isnt any smaller at all, Russia is even bigger and diversity in Europe is much more obvious,finaly language is different in each of the countries.

And about performance in F1 ,if you look the drivers wich gone from F1 to states to drive they manage to make names for them selfs even those wich didnt go well in F1. F1 one is much more slick game much more tehnical and definaly harder ,in US you can with enough money, get parts from her and there and make team and the car wich would be more or less same as others in F1 simply you cant,that is main reason that usualy new teams start from old ones ,and gaining experiance and parts from old ones.

Even such companies as Mercedes,BMW,Renault wich defianly have know how to build a car didnt start makeing their F1 cars from scratch.

While we talk about difference btw US and Europe I am thinking ,how big opsticle in buiding a car are measurments. In US people use imperial measures while in Europe people use metric ones and conversion isnt so straight forward as one might think.And many parts for F1 car you have to get from Europian companies because they only produce them.

I work in engeenering and I can "feel" how much is 10 cm but hardly I can "feel" how much is 4 inches even if that is near 10 cm (acctualy 10.16 cm wich is enough difference that two parts would not fit,10 cm is almoust exactly 3 inches and 30/32 ,you see..to complicated ! ) :)

[Saint Devote]

No offence but remember that many of us Europeans travel a lot more than you guys and learn geography much more as well, at least in this country, so we know exactly how large and diverse the US is. And the diversity is still pretty small compared to the differences between different European countries.

Howeever there is a great deal of difference in understanding any country when living there for a long time and visiting.

You cannot compare "Europe" to the United States: Europe is not a country and, no country in Europe is in any way like the United States. Actually no country in the world is like the United States.

[truefan72]

No offence but remember that many of us Europeans travel a lot more than you guys and learn geography much more as well, at least in this country, so we know exactly how large and diverse the US is. And the diversity is still pretty small compared to the differences between different European countries.

Is this a pissing contest?

the point made by the saint is in terms of autosport and not some geopolitical statement.

Why not focus on the subject at hand rather than engage in a strong defense of European diversity. lol That's not what the topic was about and no one was offending Europeans.

[truefan72]

I definatly have to agree,we have an idea of the size of US ,still EUrope as hole isnt any smaller at all, Russia is even bigger and diversity in Europe is much more obvious,finaly language is different in each of the countries.

And about performance in F1 ,if you look the drivers wich gone from F1 to states to drive they manage to make names for them selfs even those wich didnt go well in F1. F1 one is much more slick game much more tehnical and definaly harder ,in US you can with enough money, get parts from her and there and make team and the car wich would be more or less same as others in F1 simply you cant,that is main reason that usualy new teams start from old ones ,and gaining experiance and parts from old ones.

Even such companies as Mercedes,BMW,Renault wich defianly have know how to build a car didnt start makeing their F1 cars from scratch.

While we talk about difference btw US and Europe I am thinking ,how big opsticle in buiding a car are measurments. In US people use imperial measures while in Europe people use metric ones and conversion isnt so straight forward as one might think.And many parts for F1 car you have to get from Europian companies because they only produce them.

I work in engeenering and I can "feel" how much is 10 cm but hardly I can "feel" how much is 4 inches even if that is near 10 cm (acctualy 10.16 cm wich is enough difference that two parts would not fit,10 cm is almoust exactly 3 inches and 30/32 ,you see..to complicated ! ) :)

so what exactly is your point?

[petar74]

Point is truefan72 if you agree with Saint Devore that becuase of deversity of US no one cares about US team in F1 ,why the hell you have botheret at all ??

Saying that Europians know nothing about US doesent stand,even if some of us wasnt there belive me ,we are flushed with so much things from US that we definatly know much more about US then people of US know about rest of the world.

If you as American expected to crash in F1 and be best just to show how it is done..well,it didnt happend.

Second part was just a question what you guys think could such thing as meassure system make a problem in building a car,nothign else.

Just dont get me wrong I do not have anythign against Americans as nation or people who live there even I had a chance to meet some and with some I am a frined.

[DexDexter]

Is this a pissing contest?

the point made by the saint is in terms of autosport and not some geopolitical statement.

Why not focus on the subject at hand rather than engage in a strong defense of European diversity. lol That's not what the topic was about and no one was offending Europeans.

Sorry I didn't mean that, my point didn't come across, obviously. What I'm trying to say is that I think F1 people realise how difficult market US is, they are aware how big and diverse it is (and so are we).

[truefan72]

Sorry I didn't mean that, my point didn't come across, obviously. What I'm trying to say is that I think F1 people realise how difficult market US is, they are aware how big and diverse it is (and so are we).

:up:

point well taken

[truefan72]

Point is truefan72 if you agree with Saint Devore that becuase of deversity of US no one cares about US team in F1 ,why the hell you have botheret at all ??

Saying that Europians know nothing about US doesent stand,even if some of us wasnt there belive me ,we are flushed with so much things from US that we definatly know much more about US then people of US know about rest of the world.

If you as American expected to crash in F1 and be best just to show how it is done..well,it didnt happend.

Second part was just a question what you guys think could such thing as meassure system make a problem in building a car,nothign else.

Just dont get me wrong I do not have anythign against Americans as nation or people who live there even I had a chance to meet some and with some I am a frined.

ok first of all I am not american. Just live here

the point I was making is that you lost the gist of what he was saying by taking offense to particular words without understanding the meaning or in context. Nobody is/was belittling the Europeans or calling them naive in terms of understanding the US. just pointing out that amongst other issues with F1 in the Us, one should not forget it is more of a subcontinent than an actual country and thus opinions regarding F1 can be skewed.

an F1 race in a proper location in the Us could get as many as 200to 250k people showing up on race day and close to 500k for an entire weekend. Indy in-fact was close to those figures earlier on. the one thing that the us market has is numbers rather than percentages. Even a viewing audience itself can be skewed. If you say speed coverage only got a 0.8 share on races, ( which by US TV standards is really low) that is still about 1.3 million+ people watching on a sunday morning at 7am.

Anyway, I see your point as well so lets just say there are many aspects to the situation.

What we can all agree on, is that USF1 is a debacle!

btw. I don't think the measuring system is an issue, since race cars have been built there for close to a century now ;)

[petar74]

Situation have definaly different angle for any of participan in it and us as stand by waching

When I mention meassure system ,I meant on the fact that some of the parts ar emade in countries wich use metric system and some would (in case of USF1) in states wich sue imperial system .

That defianly cant be rason for not makeing the car I was just wondering ,I had car made in UK with imperial measure and any change of any part was a problem because was huge deal to finde proper wrench ! :)

[garyshell]

Situation have definaly different angle for any of participan in it and us as stand by waching

When I mention meassure system ,I meant on the fact that some of the parts ar emade in countries wich use metric system and some would (in case of USF1) in states wich sue imperial system .

That defianly cant be rason for not makeing the car I was just wondering ,I had car made in UK with imperial measure and any change of any part was a problem because was huge deal to finde proper wrench ! :)

American and European companies colabrate on desings all the time in many different industries. The measurment system differencse are not an issue at all.

Gary

[Giuseppe F1]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-usf1-asks-for-delay-until-2011/


F1: USF1 Asks For Delay Until 2011
Written by: SPEED Staff
SPEEDtv.com
02/28/2010
Charlotte, NC

SPEEDtv.com has learned that the struggling start-up USF1 Formula 1 team has formally petitioned the FIA to defer the team's entry into the sport until 2011.

Team principals Ken Anderson and Chad Hurley have offered to post a “substantial, seven-figure” surety bond as proof of their intentions to race next year.

The request for a deferment follows a breakdown in merger discussions between USF1 and the Spanish Campos Meta team. The Serbian-based Stefan GP team also had made overtures about working with USF1, but those talks also failed to yield anything substantive....

....Contrary to media speculation elsewhere, Hurley is still very much involved in the USF1 effort.

SPEEDtv.com
will continue to follow this story as it develops.

[Alfa Fan]

I like the way they continue to try and have a dig at Campos..

[call_me_andrew]

Point is truefan72 if you agree with Saint Devore that becuase of deversity of US no one cares about US team in F1 ,why the hell you have botheret at all ??

You don't start a F1 team to make fans for F1. A race team is a buisness, and buisness exists to make profit. USF1 thought it would more profitable to operate in the United States than Europe.

[Saint Devote]

So USF1 now want the rules to accomodate THEM?

They seek to mold the rules with a cheap bribe - "a seven figure" bribe? And good people that have built racing teams and are WORTHY of F1, such as Pro-Drive and Lola must stay OUT?

This is effrontery to every single F1 racing fan and the two racing teams that worked day and night to MAKE it to the grid, Virgin and Lotus.

Exactly who do these cheap suits think they are?

What a disgrace. "THROW THE BUMS OUT!!!" I mean it.

[Alfa Fan]

Lets ask them to make it the 7 figure, $48,000,000 sum they would have already surrendered to the FIA by this point had they been entering a few years ago.

[beachgirl]

They seek to mold the rules with a cheap bribe - "a seven figure" bribe? And good people that have built racing teams and are WORTHY of F1, such as Pro-Drive and Lola must stay OUT?


The seven-figure amount almost put me on the floor laughing. That's not even piggy bank chump change for the likes of Bernie. What a joke!

I still want the carbon-fiber toaster.

[PSfan]

Europeans have a quaint idea of the United States. We live in a VAST nation in a country the size of a continent with such diversity that people in New York City can have little in common with folks in rural Georgia - other than being Americans.

So the "nation" as such "feels" nothing about whether there is an American F1 team or not or whether it would win or not.

But there is a hardcore of knowledgeable F1 supporters who love F1 and were responsible down the years of supporting the US GP in places like Watkins Glen and Long Beach and even somewhat Detroit for a while. They did not take kindly to Dallas or a Las Vegas car park.

For a team from the United States to make its presence in F1, it will probably take time to find finance, it will require the principal to be a Chip Ganassi or Roger Penske and only then, can any project begin to move.

And anyway, Penske is a winner as a constructor in F1. America's "Mclaren team" would succeed again.

My god, do you actually believe what you post... or are you just messing with us!!!

wait I forgot your Button posts... i can imagine you actually believe this... I'm Canadian so I live in an equally diverse society as the US and can say this is complete BS.


And as for your Ganassi/Penske closing statement... they are 2 years away from being just another Nascar team when the IRL folds... So look for your next great american team elsewhere...

[PSfan]

So USF1 now want the rules to accomodate THEM?

They seek to mold the rules with a cheap bribe - "a seven figure" bribe? And good people that have built racing teams and are WORTHY of F1, such as Pro-Drive and Lola must stay OUT?

This is effrontery to every single F1 racing fan and the two racing teams that worked day and night to MAKE it to the grid, Virgin and Lotus.

Exactly who do these cheap suits think they are?

What a disgrace. "THROW THE BUMS OUT!!!" I mean it.

My god... do you know the difference between a bond and a bribe?!?!

While if it came down to a 24 car field with the chance of USf1 showing up in 2011, or a 26 car field with Stephan F1 and tossing the USF1 out I would go with the latter, I find it interesting that the speedtv story suggests that campos also won't make the grid in 2010...

[Easy Drifter]

You have to wonder what is in that Starbucks Coffee. Maybe the the USFDA should be checking. :D
If they had been open about their problems and not constantly lying about what was going on I would be a little more sympathetic. As it stands I do not see how the FIA can trust them.
If they have money/sponsor problems as they have claimed where is the money to post a bond coming from?
Is there any truth to the story their phone has been disconnected?
Where is Windsor?
A car was supposed to be ready in Nov. and 4 months later they have nothing. That is a third of a year!
Now they want another full year!
They have had a year and apparently have not even produced a viable tub.
The only way I can see the FIA agreeing is if there is a complete change in the internal administration of the operation. Anderson(s) gone or only a figurehead. Windsor out.
With the quality of the employees they have to problem has to be top management or lack thereof.
There has been too much BS and far too little action.

[Dave B]

I want some of whatever Windsor's smoking. It's like being back at school: the dog ate my homework but I promise I'll have it tomorrow...

[Sonic]

I want some of whatever Windsor's smoking. It's like being back at school: the dog ate my homework but I promise I'll have it tomorrow...

But unlike a teacher the FIA have fallen for it hook line and sinker for over a year now!

[DexDexter]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-usf1-asks-for-delay-until-2011/


F1: USF1 Asks For Delay Until 2011
Written by: SPEED Staff
SPEEDtv.com
02/28/2010
Charlotte, NC

SPEEDtv.com has learned that the struggling start-up USF1 Formula 1 team has formally petitioned the FIA to defer the team's entry into the sport until 2011.

Team principals Ken Anderson and Chad Hurley have offered to post a “substantial, seven-figure” surety bond as proof of their intentions to race next year.

The request for a deferment follows a breakdown in merger discussions between USF1 and the Spanish Campos Meta team. The Serbian-based Stefan GP team also had made overtures about working with USF1, but those talks also failed to yield anything substantive....

....Contrary to media speculation elsewhere, Hurley is still very much involved in the USF1 effort.

SPEEDtv.com
will continue to follow this story as it develops.

NOthing suggests they'll manage to build a car for next year since they couldn't build one for this year. They had plenty of time. Bye bye, I say.

[Dave B]

If they fail to make Bahrain... what am I saying? "If" indeed. Start again.

When they fail to make Bahrain their entry should be forfeit and the slot opened up for 2011. If they, or Stefan, or anybody else, wish to apply they should go through a proper vetting procedure.

[I am evil Homer]

Absolutely...sorry but you entered for this season and apparently can't make it. You don't get a place held for next season automatically no matter what 'bond' you put up.

And if rumopurs are true, stadd unpaid, suppliers requiring money that wasn't forthcoming then why not pay them first and try and make the 2010 grid?

[Saint Devote]

My god... do you know the difference between a bond and a bribe?!?!

While if it came down to a 24 car field with the chance of USf1 showing up in 2011, or a 26 car field with Stephan F1 and tossing the USF1 out I would go with the latter, I find it interesting that the speedtv story suggests that campos also won't make the grid in 2010...

It doesnt matter what its called - its what it is. A bond is an honorable intrument of finance - for USF1 to attempt to circumvent their comittment by trying to create rules is not honorable at all.

Its a bribe.

And its "Stefan" - at least get the name correct :vader:

[Sonic]

NOthing suggests they'll manage to build a car for next year since they couldn't build one for this year. They had plenty of time. Bye bye, I say.

I have no problem with them rebuilding under new management for 2011, however they must not be allowed to hold their place till then. Either its a free for all in which case they enter along with a few other newbies in 2011 or if there must be an artificial limit of 26 cars then they must wait for a place to become available.

[jens]

F1: USF1 Asks For Delay Until 2011


LOL? Their request should be unacceptable and considering, what they have done or actually haven't done to put it in a better way, they should never be let near F1 again.

[Dave B]

It gets curiouser and curiouser at USF1, with the news that they had two drivers but had only confirmed Lopez.

Seems they also had a contract with occasional Honda tester James Rossiter (another non-American!) who was bringing $8 million with him but pulled out when the cracks started to show.


Certainly the fact that US F1 failed to build a car on time – despite having contracts with two drivers with F1 testing experience with a combined value of $16m – would suggest that something about the project was deeply flawed.

Source: http://adamcooperf1.com/

[DexDexter]

It gets curiouser and curiouser at USF1, with the news that they had two drivers but had only confirmed Lopez.

Seems they also had a contract with occasional Honda tester James Rossiter (another non-American!) who was bringing $8 million with him but pulled out when the cracks started to show.



Source: http://adamcooperf1.com/

Unbelievable! These Lolas, Eurobruns and Lifes were class acts compared to these guys! Even Andrea Moda had one and a half working cars... :rolleyes:

[K-Pu]

Unbelievable! These Lolas, Eurobruns and Lifes were class acts compared to these guys! Even Andrea Moda had one and a half working cars... :rolleyes:

Andrea Moda dared to field a car and a rolling coffin, which is far worse than saying you have a car and in fact you have nothing. Anyway, USF1 is making history, or something like that...

What I still don´t understand is why the f*ck don´t they give up and say, hey, we´re not going anywhere so it´s over. Is it that difficult? It shouldn´t, since it´s "more or less" clear they need a miracle to put a car together in the near-medium-long-whatever term.

[steveaki13]

I also don't see why they didn't just be honest and announce alot earlier that they could not make 2010. :confused:

Then if they wish to re-apply for 2011 then so be it and compete against any other 2011 bids.

Certainly cannot just expect the slot to be held for them, when there may be a 13th team able to enter 2010 in the shape of Stefan, or to get the slot in 2011 and push out any other new entries for next season.

[truefan72]

Absolutely...sorry but you entered for this season and apparently can't make it. You don't get a place held for next season automatically no matter what 'bond' you put up.

And if rumours are true, stadd unpaid, suppliers requiring money that wasn't forthcoming then why not pay them first and try and make the 2010 grid?

add to that ken anderson and windsor rebuffing the stefan GP offer to partner up, instead suggesting that they will do it on their own and you have delusion to compound their existing issues.

Stefan gp offered them a real opportunity to still get on the grid and they arrogantly rebuffed those overtures. These 2 jokers deserve the demise they themselves built. I only feel sorry for the workers there, many of whom probably made sacrifices to join the team, only to still not be paid or able to build a car due to lack of funding.

Let this be a classic lesson of how not to start up and manage an F1 team.

[Sonic]

It gets curiouser and curiouser at USF1, with the news that they had two drivers but had only confirmed Lopez.

Seems they also had a contract with occasional Honda tester James Rossiter (another non-American!) who was bringing $8 million with him but pulled out when the cracks started to show.



Source: http://adamcooperf1.com/

Good grief! Wise up FIA, No, no, no, no, no!

[Robinho]

if they had 2 pay drivers and a backer who is willing to put up a 7 figure bond, WTF have they failed to come up with a bloody car, even just a sh!te one

[Sonic]

if they had 2 pay drivers and a backer who is willing to put up a 7 figure bond, WTF have they failed to come up with a bloody car, even just a sh!te one

Amen brother! If beardy branson is to be believed Virgin are running a very tight ship with the smallest budget somewhere around the 40 million mark. If these financial stories are true USF1 had at least half that much so why couldn't they get a car on the ground?

Good luck to the new management but come on FIA shut this sorry saga down and let's go racing!

[stephenw_us]

The most pathetic thing of all is that there has been zero attempt to address the public - not on twitter, facebook, or on their site.

They just disappear on the 25th of January like a fart in the wind... :rolleyes:

[Easy Drifter]

And just as stinky!!!!!!

Speaking of 'Skunkworks' they are an insult to self respecting skunks.

[call_me_andrew]

NOthing suggests they'll manage to build a car for next year since they couldn't build one for this year. They had plenty of time. Bye bye, I say.

Given enough time and money, I'm sure they'll build a car at some point. It may be by accident though.

[Easy Drifter]

Given the stream of half truths and outright lies from USF1 in the last while I even wonder if the story about asking for a year reprieve and filing a 7 figure bond is correct. I do not doubt Speed TV but wonder just how accurate their source was.
If you are late on salaries, can't pay for engines and so on how do you file a 7 figure bond.
Remember KA apparently even lied to the NY Times when he told them USF1 had asked to miss 4 races.
Nick Craw, speaking for the FIA refuted that statement by saying all that had been asked for was clarification on missing 3 races.
As the FIA has been silent this time it may be true about the request.
Jean Todt and the FIA have a very nasty situation to resolve. A nice present left behind by Mad Max.

[SGWilko]

A nice present left behind by Mad Max.

He probably even had Harrods gift wrap it, too!! :D

[Riley]

I think at this point we should not forget the staff (below KA and PW) who do have the dedication and will to build an F1 car. Alot of people have alot on the line, and for them this effort needs to suceed. Families moved, new homes, new state, even new country. Lets remember when we are bashing USF1 we really should be bashing Anderson and co.