Breakout week for Montoya?

[Alexamateo]

So is this going to be a breakout week for Juan Pablo in the Busch Series? They're racing at Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez. Road Course, former F1 track, (although I don't think Montoya's ever run there in CART or F1). What does everyone think? :)

[dont_be_jack]

Is he running that race? I didn't know if he was...

And I don't think it'll be a break-out race for him. He's more concerned about getting seat time at the moment and that's the right thing to do.

[harvick#1]

he should be good. I don't expect Juan to win, as he is still getting acustomed to the bulky cars but a top 10 should be there for his taking

alot of road course aces will be on hand though as well in Mexico.

[Alexamateo]

Is he running that race? I didn't know if he was...

And I don't think it'll be a break-out race for him. He's more concerned about getting seat time at the moment and that's the right thing to do.

The site has him listed as running with at least 8 other Cup drivers.

http://www.mexico200.com/boletines.asp?no=57&bot=1

[dont_be_jack]

Alright, gotcha. Thanks for the info. Like I said above, he's primarily looking for seat time. He knows he's not going to contend from the start. But he's got the right mentality for the moment.

[Sparky1329]

So is this going to be a breakout week for Juan Pablo in the Busch Series? They're racing at Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez. Road Course, former F1 track, (although I don't think Montoya's ever run there in CART or F1). What does everyone think? :)


I don't know the answer to your question but I think it will be fun to watch. ;)

[BobbyC]

With these big cars, a driver has to learn how to drive them. They aren't point-and-squirt through the turns, or follow the one line. These are what one reporter called the "dancing elephants" and take driver skill to work through for a win.

You can't run the car hard for the 80 laps in this race, and is longer in length than an F1 race by 15 km with car control and conserving equipment being the important factor. Conserving tires is a must in a stock car for a road course, since you must be able to keep your tires to run 25-30 laps before a fuel stop, and the tires give up very easily if you run them too hard early in a run.

[muggle not]

With these big cars, a driver has to learn how to drive them. They aren't point-and-squirt through the turns, or follow the one line. These are what one reporter called the "dancing elephants" and take driver skill to work through for a win.

You can't run the car hard for the 80 laps in this race, and is longer in length than an F1 race by 15 km with car control and conserving equipment being the important factor. Conserving tires is a must in a stock car for a road course, since you must be able to keep your tires to run 25-30 laps before a fuel stop, and the tires give up very easily if you run them too hard early in a run.
I believe that i agree with BobbyC on the Mexico race for Montoya. The road course may be even more difficult for him to drive than the ovals in the heavy car.

[DonnieDarco]

JPM will just carry on doing what he's doing - Learn the tracks, keep on practicing the drafting, etc. I don't think there should be any pressure on him to 'break out' at this early stage.

[Jonesi]

With these big cars, a driver has to learn how to drive them. They aren't point-and-squirt through the turns, or follow the one line. These are what one reporter called the "dancing elephants" and take driver skill to work through for a win.

You can't run the car hard for the 80 laps in this race, and is longer in length than an F1 race by 15 km with car control and conserving equipment being the important factor. Conserving tires is a must in a stock car for a road course, since you must be able to keep your tires to run 25-30 laps before a fuel stop, and the tires give up very easily if you run them too hard early in a run.

All those skills are also needed to race endurance sports cars, and he seemed to do quite well in the 24 hours of Daytona.

[William S]

Assuming his team can give him a decent car, he will do VERY well in Mexico.

[djarumdudley]

this race should at least show how competitive he can potentially be in the Cup road races.

[RaceFanStan]

The site has him listed as running with at least 8 other Cup drivers.

http://www.mexico200.com/boletines.asp?no=57&bot=1
The entry list @ nascar.com shows 11 full-time Nextel Cup drivers competing in the Busch race in Mexico. :eek:
01. J J Yeley #1 Chevrolet
02. David Ragan #6 Ford
03. Dave Blaney #10 Toyota
04. Todd Kluever #16 Ford
05. Denny Hamlin #20 Chevrolet
06. David Gilliland #25 Chevrolet
07. Greg Biffle #37 Ford
08. Scott Pruett #41 Dodge
09. Juan Montoya #42 Dodge
10. Carl Edwards #60 Ford
11. David Reutimann #99 Toyota

[muggle not]

although it may be somewhat questionable to call Scott Pruett full time. :)

[harvick#1]

hes a fulltime Road Racer :)

[veeten]

Montoya will be getting plenty of seat time, running both the Grand Am race on Saturday and the Busch Cup on Sunday. :)

While the types of cars will differ, there's lots to do and learn including braking points on track.

[Erki]

Interesting that David Gilliland drives a Chevy there.

[ALHARTLEY5]

Juan Pablo is not running in the Rolex race, although I'm not sure that it would help all that much. The cars are just so different. I think CGR has done some testing for Montoya on road courses with Pruett's help. These road courses are probably JPM's best hope to make an impact in NASCAR. These Busch road course races are a crapshoot though. The Busch guys will be all over the place. It'll come down to staying out of other peoples' problems and pitting at the right time.

[harvick#1]

Interesting that David Gilliland drives a Chevy there.

it was a misprint, hes driving a Ford, unless they switched this week and the two sites I use haven't changed it yet

[RaceFanStan]

Interesting that David Gilliland drives a Chevy there.
Team Rensi Motorsports operates 2 cars in the Busch Series, the #25 Ford & the #35 Ford.

[RaceFanStan]

although it may be somewhat questionable to call Scott Pruett full time. :)
Yeah, I blew it on that one, I saw #41, thought Reed Sorenson & didn't look close enough, good eye ! :D :up:
So that would be 10 full-time Cup drivers instead of 11 that I originally said.

[Alexamateo]

Yeah, I blew it on that one, I saw #41, thought Reed Sorenson & didn't look close enough, good eye ! :D :up:
So that would be 10 full-time Cup drivers instead of 11 that I originally said.

I would also hesitate to call Kluever a full timer also. :)

[RaceFanStan]

Kluever is a full-time contract Roush driver. :laugh:
He drives whatever Jack will put him in. ;)

I'm a bit groggy, mind isn't sharp, lack of sleep does that. :s

[call_me_andrew]

Is he running that race? I didn't know if he was...

He's running every Busch race (which I find to be assinine).

[Jonesi]

Interesting article on the Cal/Mex/LV logistics, and why it's not really a surprise the grids are just a little light for these races.
http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/bg/03/01/mexico.city.logistics/index.html

[Alexamateo]

I'm a bit groggy, mind isn't sharp, lack of sleep does that. :s

That's the second time you've mentioned sleep. Whatcha been doin' Stan? :p :s taying in trouble?

[jslone]

Are we gonna have this discussion everytime the Busch series goes to a raod course?Hes a very very good driver,but he does not have the seat time in a Nascar type of car on a road course.PLus he also has to have a very good car set up from the Chip Ganassi team and great pit stops.If he wins this race,I dont think it will be a breakout week or whatever.

[tassiedevilAB]

I remember reading that Montoya has already tested on road courses, so he has already felt what the cars handle like on the race tracks, it all depends on who punts him off the track as to how he will end up in the race, i have read that some of the drivers don't like to turn left & right. If everything goes his wayhe could end up with a top10, much the same as Marcos, these 2 should have some fun out there. It should also be great for road race fans to see the antics that go on in these races!

[RaceFanStan]

That's the second time you've mentioned sleep. Whatcha been doin' Stan? :p :s taying in trouble?
No, my daughter married an evil man Wednesday & it broke my heart that she is so stupid.
Wednesday night I couldn't stop thinking about it, sleep was only minutes at a time.
I was so distraught that I couldn't relax. :s
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, back on topic, all you JPM fans, believe what you want.
However you shouldn't look for JPM in victory lane @ Mexico. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[wedge]

JPM will do good. As someone else said, a top 10 finish is for the taking.

JPM ain't stupid, he's got tonnes of racing experience. He just needs to understand the dynamics of a stock car, how to get the best out of the car getting in and out of corners.

All the wildcard road racers like Adrian Fernandez, Scott Pruett and Boris Said have done well in the past by jumping straight into stock cars

[Erki]

Is Ron Fellows also there?

[harvick#1]

yeah, in KHI's 33

[RaikkonenRules]

He's running every Busch race (which I find to be assinine).

Kevin Hamlin is running the Stand Alone events that clash with Cup races.

[harvick#1]

Montoya was 3rd fastest in opening practice, so it seems he can put down a fast lap and found his way around the track :)

[Erki]

P1 times: http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=244773&FS=NASCAR-BUSCH

Only 34 cars. :eek:

[djarumdudley]

wow, what happend to all the Mexican drivers from the previous two years.

[tassiedevilAB]

Montoya has just taken over top spot in the times!

Telcel-Motorola 200 Final Practice Speeds

Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez
NASCAR Busch Series Posted Friday, March 2, 2007



Pos. No. Driver Make Time Speed Lap # # Laps -Fastest -Next
1 *42 Juan Pablo Montoya # 87.011 104.180 8 8 ---.--- ---.---
2 41 Scott Pruett 87.547 103.542 1 1 -0.536 -0.536
3 20 Denny Hamlin 87.755 103.297 15 16 -0.744 -0.208
4 22 Carlos Contreras 87.840 103.197 5 8 -0.829 -0.085
5 27 Jorge Goeters 88.033 102.970 11 11 -1.022 -0.193
6 18 Brad Coleman # 88.464 102.469 5 11 -1.453 -0.431
7 *4 Regan Smith 88.538 102.383 1 6 -1.527 -0.074
8 59 Marcos Ambrose # 88.630 102.277 8 10 -1.619 -0.092
9 9 Boris Said 88.728 102.164 10 15 -1.717 -0.098
10 33 Ron Fellows 88.733 102.158 10 16 -1.722 -0.005
11 38 Jason Leffler 88.739 102.151 13 14 -1.728 -0.006
12 66 Steve Wallace 88.810 102.070 8 14 -1.799 -0.071
13 5 Adrian Fernandez 88.821 102.057 1 20 -1.810 -0.011
14 21 P.J. Jones 88.822 102.056 14 17 -1.811 -0.001
15 25 David Gilliland 89.015 101.835 15 16 -2.004 -0.193
16 *1 J.J. Yeley 89.127 101.707 6 12 -2.116 -0.112
17 88 Shane Huffman 89.176 101.651 16 16 -2.165 -0.049
18 90 Stephen Leicht 89.236 101.582 2 25 -2.225 -0.060
19 60 Carl Edwards 89.284 101.528 3 12 -2.273 -0.048
20 37 Greg Biffle 89.339 101.465 1 3 -2.328 -0.055
21 35 Bobby Hamilton Jr. 89.554 101.222 4 6 -2.543 -0.215
22 *17 Michel Jourdain 89.640 101.124 6 7 -2.629 -0.086
23 7 Mike Wallace 89.866 100.870 10 10 -2.855 -0.226
24 29 Scott Wimmer 89.946 100.780 8 10 -2.935 -0.080
25 47 Jon Wood 89.991 100.730 14 19 -2.980 -0.045
26 *13 Todd Souza 90.025 100.692 7 7 -3.014 -0.034
27 36 Brent Sherman 90.169 100.531 9 10 -3.158 -0.144
28 *67 Rogelio Lopez 90.289 100.398 8 9 -3.278 -0.120
29 14 Kyle Krisiloff # 90.301 100.384 14 17 -3.290 -0.012
30 28 German Quiroga Jr. 90.351 100.329 1 5 -3.340 -0.050
31 *98 Alex Garcia # 90.604 100.049 19 22 -3.593 -0.253
32 6 David Ragan # 90.697 99.946 2 3 -3.686 -0.093
33 16 Todd Kleuver 90.805 99.827 7 10 -3.794 -0.108
34 99 David Reutimann 90.893 99.731 5 11 -3.882 -0.088
35 *46 John Young 91.009 99.603 11 11 -3.998 -0.116
36 *30 Stanton Barrett 91.133 99.468 11 11 -4.122 -0.124
37 0 J.R. Fitzpatrick Jr. 91.139 99.461 7 7 -4.128 -0.006
38 77 Kertus Davis 92.168 98.351 5 8 -5.157 -1.029
39 *34 Brian Simo 92.243 98.271 9 11 -5.232 -0.075
40 *23 Brad Keselowski # 92.272 98.240 4 9 -5.261 -0.029
# Denotes Rookie
* Required to qualify on time

[RaceFanStan]

wow, what happend to all the Mexican drivers from the previous two years.
Is 8 of 42 not enough ? http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/nya.gif
Driver - Car - Hometown
Adrian Fernandez #5 Chevrolet - Mexico City, Mexico
Michel Jourdain Jr #17 Ford - Mexico City, Mexico
Carlos Contreras #22 Dodge - Mexico City, Mexico
Jorge Goeters #27 Ford - San Luis Potosi, Mexico
German Quiroga Jr #28 Chevrolet - Mexico City, Mexico
Ruben Pardo #44 Dodge - Mexico City, Mexico
Rogelio Lopez #67 Dodge - W. Caliente, Mexico
Antonio Perez #68 Dodge - Zapopan, Mexico

[Hoss Ghoul]

ESPN reported there were 9 mexican drivers running this weekend. I haven't bothered to look at the time sheets, so I'll take the 8 as true.

What is it with Mexican race fans that they need Mexicans in the race to be interested? Its the case with Champ Car/CART, and now NASCAR? Grand Am has some too, although I'm not sure they make it a point to have them as the other two do. Americans and Canadians root hard for their national drivers as well, but Formula 1 has done well(attendance wise) without a field of home-breed drivers, and you can bet the Busch race in Montreal will(since it is already about sold out) without PT, JV, etc....?

JPM paced practice by a wide margin BTW, Pruett second, Hamlin 3rd. Should be a good race, glad they put the track back to the F1 layout.

[Robert Ryan]

What is it with Mexican race fans that they need Mexicans in the race to be interested
No matter what he country you must have local input to make the series interesting to a local audience.

[Hoss Ghoul]

No matter what he country you must have local input to make the series interesting to a local audience.

I certainly agree...perhaps it is NASCAR's over-emphasis on having so many in the field that colors my perception.

[CREWDAWG]

Boy did he have a rough time at Bristol! He needs to get more short track practice but that race, somewhere, somehow.

[pentti]

P1 times: http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=244773&FS=NASCAR-BUSCH

Only 34 cars. :eek: Are you sure?

[El Sween]

Lets hope Juan has a good run tomorrow. Just so everyone knows you can watch tomorrows Busch race live via NASCAR.COM for free.

[Jonesi]

ESPN reported there were 9 mexican drivers running this weekend. I haven't bothered to look at the time sheets, so I'll take the 8 as true.

What is it with Mexican race fans that they need Mexicans in the race to be interested? Its the case with Champ Car/CART, and now NASCAR? Grand Am has some too, although I'm not sure they make it a point to have them as the other two do. Americans and Canadians root hard for their national drivers as well, but Formula 1 has done well(attendance wise) without a field of home-breed drivers, and you can bet the Busch race in Montreal will(since it is already about sold out) without PT, JV, etc....?

JPM paced practice by a wide margin BTW, Pruett second, Hamlin 3rd. Should be a good race, glad they put the track back to the F1 layout.

It's not just Mexico. Indy F1 doesn't sell out, but imagine the interest if it had 3rd cars entered by Ferrari, Renault & McLaren for Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart & DE Jr. Be a hotter ticket than the Superbowl.

BTW JV is expected to run the Montreal Busch race, and I think we'll see 4-5 Canadian road racers there too.

[veeten]

nice top 12... :D

http://racecast.nascar.com/races/leaderboard/bg/qual/frameset_qual_exclude.html

Looks like a very fun start tomorrow... :D :D

[Hoss Ghoul]

It's not just Mexico. Indy F1 doesn't sell out, but imagine the interest if it had 3rd cars entered by Ferrari, Renault & McLaren for Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart & DE Jr. Be a hotter ticket than the Superbowl.

BTW JV is expected to run the Montreal Busch race, and I think we'll see 4-5 Canadian road racers there too.


It'd be nice to see Ron Fellows, Jacques Villeneuve, and Paul Tracy. At least the first two of those three seems likely.

[harvick#1]

Fellows will be in the #33 in all the road courses so he is in.

[Robert Ryan]

Marcos was not a happy man. He was 6th, 3rd in practice, but 12th in qualifying, not a happy chappie. See what his race pace is.

[f1rocks]

I hope JPM does well. I have started enjoying his racing and think he is doing tremendous to switch from F1 cars to Nascar. I think he had bad luck last week as he lost a lap after pitting and Pace Car. I think his team is also not that good when it comes to strategy and pitting.

Hope he finishes in top 3 today. Atleast it will be a road course as I am getting a bit bored of the ovals... :d

[race aficionado]

I hope JPM does well. I have started enjoying his racing and think he is doing tremendous to switch from F1 cars to Nascar. I think he had bad luck last week as he lost a lap after pitting and Pace Car. I think his team is also not that good when it comes to strategy and pitting.

Hope he finishes in top 3 today. Atleast it will be a road course as I am getting a bit bored of the ovals... :d


That would definitely be very cool if they had more road courses.

Why don't they?

Is it a cost issue or is it that oval racing is what characterizes the "real" NASCAR racing.

:s mokin:

[Jag_Warrior]

That would definitely be very cool if they had more road courses.

Why don't they?

Is it a cost issue or is it that oval racing is what characterizes the "real" NASCAR racing.

:s mokin:

In NASCAR Nextel Cup, is anything a "cost issue"? :D

I agree with you. I try never to miss a NASCAR road race, whether Busch or Nextel Cup. Unlike some oval races, there's never a dull moment when they get on a road course. But I don't think most NASCAR fans are that much into road course racing, so I'd be surpised if they ever have more than two.

As for today, Goooooo, Juancho!!!

[f1rocks]

That would definitely be very cool if they had more road courses.

Why don't they?

Is it a cost issue or is it that oval racing is what characterizes the "real" NASCAR racing.

:s mokin:


Race. I wish they did have more road courses. I must admit that after watching 2 oval races I have got pretty bored. I had difficulty sitting thru the last one. I think the road courses will be different.

Moreover hopefully there will be less pace car sessions today. Also I hope they change the pit rules and make it similar to F1. There should be no pit window. Just pit whenever you think you want to. That will add to the excitement.

[RaceFanStan]

Small light powerful cars will dart & zip through a curvy course with ease ...
but a big bulky overpowered car will plow & struggle on the same course ...
the bottom line is that 3400 lbs stockcars aren't ideally suited for road courses.
Nextel Cup & the Busch Series race on 2 roadcourses once each season.
For me that is 4 races too many. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
I find most stockcar races on a roadcourse boring. :s

[Jag_Warrior]

Nextel Cup & the Busch Series race on 2 roadcourses once each season.
For me that is 4 races too many. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
I find most stockcar races on a roadcourse boring. :s

And my guess is, that's how a lot of NASCAR fans see it. In order of excitement, action and skill required, I'll take the road courses, short tracks, non-restrictor plate speedways and then last (and least), the restrictor plate drone fests... waitin' for The Big One.

With a road course, you have to be able to turn left AND right, brake, accelerate, shift up AND down. That's why I like short tracks too. They take a lot of the same skills, plus you have to avoid getting the h#ll knocked out of yourself by some yahoo.

I have a LOT of respect for stock car drivers on road courses. Over powered, under tired cars... and REAL shift mechanisms. None of that pansy driver aid crap that every other series is embracing. Power steering. Power brakes. If you need more than that, stay on the freeway!

[race aficionado]

Breakout week for Montoya?

Why yes indeed!!! :D

[DonnieDarco]

I have to eat my words :D

[ALHARTLEY5]

JPM should do fine in NASCAR if he's going to drive like that. He's a classless piece of #$%@! The move he pulled on Pruett was a terrible piece of driving. Not only did he wreck his teammate out of the lead, but he jeopardized his own race and the mammoth investment CGR made in that race. They bet the ranch on that race and they got away with it, with no thanks to JPM. Then in victory lane, all he can do is shrug off what he did to his teammmate and also what he did to half of that team CGR brought down to Mexico. That kind of crap does not benefit an organization over the long haul.

JPM will be fine until he pulls something like that on Dale Jr or any of the other fan favorites. Then he's in the fence, unless Mike Helton is planning on protecting him.

As an aside, most road course racing series would black flag a driver for a bone-headed move like that. Not NASCAR!

[truefan72]

Small light powerful cars will dart & zip
I find most stockcar races on a roadcourse boring. :s

As opposed do going round and round in an oval interrupted only by excessive cautions and highlighted by crashes and pit stops. LOL com on.

I watch NASCAR and enjoy it to degree, where rooting for my fovorite driver is my main interest in watching the race. But I am under no delusion that it is "high entertainment" with nost stop action, overtaking maneuvers, speed and braking, turns and twists, undulating terrain, team strategies, quick reflexes and superb driving ability. NASCAR are weekly endurance races that require concetration and some effort, but are given frequent enough respits to not tire out the drivers physically. NASCAR's appeal to me is that anyone can be a NASCAR driver. You don't have to be 5'7" 165 pounds in order to drive the cars. There is a driver for every taste and enough cars to appeal to all interests.

[truefan72]

JPM should do fine in NASCAR if he's going to drive like that. He's a classless piece of #$%@! The move he pulled on Pruett was a terrible piece of driving. Not only did he wreck his teammate out of the lead, but he jeopardized his own race and the mammoth investment CGR made in that race. They bet the ranch on that race and they got away with it, with no thanks to JPM. Then in victory lane, all he can do is shrug off what he did to his teammmate and also what he did to half of that team CGR brought down to Mexico. That kind of crap does not benefit an organization over the long haul.

JPM will be fine until he pulls something like that on Dale Jr or any of the other fan favorites. Then he's in the fence, unless Mike Helton is planning on protecting him.

As an aside, most road course racing series would black flag a driver for a bone-headed move like that. Not NASCAR!

Obviously you don’t like JPM to make such an outlandish statement. Otherwise you must be high on something. Do you Watch NASCAR at all. or was this a cross over event for you to see JPM fail and where duly disappointed. This stuff happens all the time. Just last year in a way more egregious action, your Golden boy Dale JR, clearly took out the front runner to win and earlier in the year did the same thing to Edwards. Just watch a few more races and then contextualize your remarks.

[BenRoethig]

JPM should do fine in NASCAR if he's going to drive like that. He's a classless piece of #$%@! The move he pulled on Pruett was a terrible piece of driving. Not only did he wreck his teammate out of the lead, but he jeopardized his own race and the mammoth investment CGR made in that race. They bet the ranch on that race and they got away with it, with no thanks to JPM. Then in victory lane, all he can do is shrug off what he did to his teammmate and also what he did to half of that team CGR brought down to Mexico. That kind of crap does not benefit an organization over the long haul.

JPM will be fine until he pulls something like that on Dale Jr or any of the other fan favorites. Then he's in the fence, unless Mike Helton is planning on protecting him.

As an aside, most road course racing series would black flag a driver for a bone-headed move like that. Not NASCAR!

He made a bone head rookie mistake. He misjudged how much room he had with a stock car.

[Lee Roy]

I have a LOT of respect for stock car drivers on road courses. Over powered, under tired cars... and REAL shift mechanisms. None of that pansy driver aid crap that every other series is embracing. Power steering. Power brakes. If you need more than that, stay on the freeway!


Agreed. I wish NASCAR would add a couple of more road course races to their schedule.

ISC should buy Pocono, plow it up, and turn it into a first class road course.

[R. Mears]

JPM should do fine in NASCAR if he's going to drive like that. He's a classless piece of #$%@! The move he pulled on Pruett was a terrible piece of driving. Not only did he wreck his teammate out of the lead, but he jeopardized his own race and the mammoth investment CGR made in that race. They bet the ranch on that race and they got away with it, with no thanks to JPM. Then in victory lane, all he can do is shrug off what he did to his teammmate and also what he did to half of that team CGR brought down to Mexico. That kind of crap does not benefit an organization over the long haul.

JPM will be fine until he pulls something like that on Dale Jr or any of the other fan favorites. Then he's in the fence, unless Mike Helton is planning on protecting him.

As an aside, most road course racing series would black flag a driver for a bone-headed move like that. Not NASCAR!

Remember when Dale Earnhart Sr. did this all the time and he was reguarded as a hero and a legend.
Why is it different now?

[R. Mears]

Agreed. I wish NASCAR would add a couple of more road course races to their schedule.

ISC should buy Pocono, plow it up, and turn it into a first class road course.
Good point, another thing is NASCAR should eliminate all the tracks less than 1 mile. It makes no sense to me to have a 800HP car on a 1/2-3/4 mile track.

[Alexamateo]

Good point, another thing is NASCAR should eliminate all the tracks less than 1 mile. It makes no sense to me to have a 800HP car on a 1/2-3/4 mile track.
Disagree strongly there, It's some of the best racing, what we need less of is 1.5-2 mile D-shaped ovals, the so-called cookie-cutters.

[Alexamateo]

ISC should buy Pocono, plow it up, and turn it into a first class road course.

Some were treating it like a road course were'nt they? IIRC Mark Martin was shifting gears every lap, but NASCAR changed the rules so they couldn't do it anymore. Am I remembering correctly?

[call_me_andrew]

Some were treating it like a road course were'nt they? IIRC Mark Martin was shifting gears every lap, but NASCAR changed the rules so they couldn't do it anymore. Am I remembering correctly?

That sums things up nicely.

[R. Mears]

Disagree strongly there, It's some of the best racing, what we need less of is 1.5-2 mile D-shaped ovals, the so-called cookie-cutters.
Well I'm an open wheel guy to start with but have since took to NASCAR more since Tony George kicked the CART cars out of Indy back in '94. Which led to their demise. That's why I prefer the big tracks for speed. I also like road courses.
I just don't care for the demolition derby type small tracks. Heck with 43 cars when the green drops the last 10 cars are 3/4 of a lap down.

[Jag_Warrior]

JPM should do fine in NASCAR if he's going to drive like that. He's a classless piece of #$%@! The move he pulled on Pruett was a terrible piece of driving. Not only did he wreck his teammate out of the lead, but he jeopardized his own race and the mammoth investment CGR made in that race. They bet the ranch on that race and they got away with it, with no thanks to JPM. Then in victory lane, all he can do is shrug off what he did to his teammmate and also what he did to half of that team CGR brought down to Mexico. That kind of crap does not benefit an organization over the long haul.

JPM will be fine until he pulls something like that on Dale Jr or any of the other fan favorites. Then he's in the fence, unless Mike Helton is planning on protecting him.

As an aside, most road course racing series would black flag a driver for a bone-headed move like that. Not NASCAR!

Oh please! I watched Dale, Sr. knock Terry Labonte across the finish line at Bristol completely sideways. And Montoya didn't mug Pruett (who I've liked since Day 1) nearly as bad as I've seen Michael Schumacher do people through the years. And we won't even bring up Paul Tracy's name here, or shall we? How about Eddie Cheever? Shall we discuss his fine, crash filled career in open wheel? As for betting the ranch on this race... what?! They could have wrecked both cars and Chip would have still left Mexico with money in his pocket. This is one of the best funded operations in North America. I mean, look at Ganassi. Does he look like a guy that's EVER missed a meal?

Montoya was overly aggressive (didn't need to make that move when he did), but from the cameras, Pruett also dove back to the apex. I don't like Ganassi, but two of my favorite drivers are in his cars. I was pulling for both of them today. I hated what happened. I wanted to see them finish 1 & 2... with Montoya in 1st, of course.

Now, as for some regular putting Juan in the fence... this guy isn't some candy-azz, wine & cheeser (David Coulthard, Jarno Trulli, etc.). Michael Schumacher had grown used to shoving around the F1 kids for years. Then along came the Colombian. He put some marks on ol' Shoemaker's wheels to let him know the deal. He also let Michael "Big Head" Andretti know that he wasn't worried about him, back in the CART days. Let someone put him in the fence, and I have $100 that says that car gets taken out that same race or the very next race.

Hey ALHARTLEY5, don't mind me too much. I'm just all excited right now. I'm actually more of an F1/CCWS and sports car fan. But shoot, on the NASCAR board, you guys talk about RACING! What a novel concept! See I'm not used to that. I'm more used to talking about why this or that is screwed up with the series, teams or drivers. I bet you guys don't even talk about TV ratings til you're blue in the face.

Well, this is alright. Somebody save my chair - I'll be back. :s mokin:

[R. Mears]

Also remember Tony Stewart being reprimanded for agressive driving actions. Maybe Dale Sr was the only one allowed to "crash and win". LOL

[race aficionado]

OK.
I just posted the Speed Report on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_if1mD1_mfc

much will be talked, oppinions will vary, bottom line is,
Juan Pablo Montoya has officially Broken out - hold on to your pantalones.

race
:s mokin:

[jslone]

1 race does not make or break a career.I like JPM,he's a very good driver,but until he wins some on the ovals,this is not what I would consider a break out race.

[Roamy]

OK.
I just posted the Speed Report on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_if1mD1_mfc

much will be talked, oppinions will vary, bottom line is,
Juan Pablo Montoya has officially Broken out - hold on to your pantalones.

race
:s mokin:

JPM was brilliant - carving his way up passing people. How can you dare give him sh!t. He was down low and up far enough that Pruett should have taken the upper line. But dispite this does anyone really in there wildest dreams think that with 7 laps to go that JPM would not have passed. He was brilliant so get over it - get some freaking fried chicken and wait for the next race..

[DonnieDarco]

Looking at that, Pruett appears to have spun someone out in an identical way right at the start :D

[tassiedevilAB]

JPM was brilliant - carving his way up passing people. How can you dare give him sh!t. He was down low and up far enough that Pruett should have taken the upper line. But dispite this does anyone really in there wildest dreams think that with 7 laps to go that JPM would not have passed. He was brilliant so get over it - get some freaking fried chicken and wait for the next race..


You have just answered what just about everybody has said, he did not need to punt his team mate out , he had a superior car & tyes, he just needed to get him on a long straight in stead of the risky one he did it was always going to end in tears if the move could not be done safely!

[tassiedevilAB]

05/03/2007

AMBROSE RISES TO FIFTH IN POINTS WITH REMARKABLE COMEBACK IN MEXICO TO FINISH EIGHTH


Marcos Ambrose has risen to fifth in the NASCAR Busch Series standings after a remarkable comeback to finish eighth in the Telcel Motorola Mexico 200 in Mexico City today.

Ambrose had the chance for an even better result slip away on lap 64 when he was spun while racing within the lead pack in sixth position, dropping him to 24th position and setting the scene for a remarkable comeback, culminating in Ambrose passing seven cars in the final two laps.

Ambrose collected US$53,820 (A$68,674) in prizemoney for his efforts in today’s Telcel-Motorola Mexico 200 out of a total prize pool of US$2,512,372 (A$3,169,785).

Ambrose got off to a strong start in the #59 Kingsford Charcoal Ford Fusion, muscling his way to seventh by the end of the first lap after qualifying in 12th position.

The two-time Australian V8 Supercar Champion made his first of two pit stops on lap 12 and from there on ran in about sixth or seventh position as he diced with NASCAR Nextel Cup drivers and fellow Ford stars Greg Biffle, Carl Edwards and Boris Said.

Ambrose was as high as fifth shortly after his second pit stop and was comfortably with the lead pack in sixth position when his chances of a top five result were taken away.

Ambrose was hit from behind by JJ Yeley in Turn Three on lap 64, Ambrose pointing out after the race that the car of Biffle directly ahead of him had slowed slightly, resulting in Ambrose checking up and that Yeley had little time to react and was not to blame – it was just one of those things that happens in NASCAR road course racing.

Both Ambrose and Yeley spun in front of almost the entire field, and the Australian dropped back to 24th, his #59 Kingsford Charcoal Ford Fusion lucky not to be hit by another car as the field streamed past.

His progress back through the pack was sensational as his road racing talents shone, but a series of caution periods for late-race incidents thwarted his efforts.

Ambrose had reached 15th when the caution flag flew on the final lap, creating a ‘green-white-chequered’ finish, NASCAR giving the field an opportunity at two clear laps of racing before the finish.

In those two laps Ambrose passed an amazing seven cars to finish in eighth, gain his first NASCAR Busch Series top 10 result and finish as the second-highest Raybestos Rookie of the Year contender behind race winner Juan Pablo Montoya.

Ambrose rises to an outstanding fifth in the NASCAR Busch Series standings, equal with defending series champ Kevin Harvick who did not race in Mexico, as well as maintaining his lead in the Raybestos Rookie of the Year standings.

It was a strong road course result for Wood Brothers/JTG Racing, with both Ford Fusions in the top 10 as Jon Wood drove a smart and consistent race to finish 10th.

Today’s Telcel Motorola Mexico 200 was won by former Formula 1 driver Juan Pablo Montoya in front of an estimated crowd of 72,971 after a controversial incident with his team-mate Scott Pruett, with defending race winner Denny Hamlin second and noted NASCAR road racer Boris Said in third.

Marcos Ambrose – #59 Kingsford Charcoal Ford Fusion

“Today was a really long day,” said Ambrose.

“We fought all day. When we had clear track the worked nicely but when we went back into the pack after being spun the car couldn’t quite do what I needed it to do.

“Eighth is still a really good result for us but we had a better result in us today and unfortunately we didn’t get it.

“It was just one of those deals when we got turned around. Greg Biffle was just in front of us and he checked up through Turn Three. I checked up slightly and Yeley got into the back of me at just the wrong moment and we both went around in front of the almost whole field.

“The Ganassi cars were fast this weekend so we have a little bit of work to do on our road course program but we can definitely be proud of what we achieved today.

“We got our first top 10 in the Busch Series, we’re still well inside the top 10 in points and we are still the leading rookie. So life is definitely good at the moment.

“Those last two laps were just a mess. It’s just what you get in those green-white-chequered situations. We just had to try and finish as well as trying to pass as many cars as possible.

“There were people bumping and bashing into each other all over the track.

“We got up to 15th from 24th on merit there, which shows the car had some really good pace. In those last two laps we just had to go for it without doing anything that would put us out and we got to eighth.

“I think we passed more cars than anyone out there today.

“Now we can move on to Las Vegas. We tested there in the preseason so we are hoping that it is another strong weekend for the Kingsford team.

"It was good to get back on a road course where I’ve got a better idea of what I'm doing. But, I love the ovals. The ovals, to me, are the best thing that I've ever done in my life.

“I'm glad that I can run a couple of road courses, but my passion is with the ovals."

This is also a break out day for Ambrose, in most racers eyes this is the way a driver get's respect from his peers! & the paying crowds!

[Mark in Oshawa]

I put this on another thread, I will say it here. Under the rules of road racing in the GCR's that are common to most road racing organizations in the world, JPM was NOT up past the driver's door with the nose of his car, and it was Pruett's corner. The key though is, this is a) NASCAR, where they are never consistent on how they enforce and if they enforce rules, as many Dale Sr. victims can attest, and b) Pruett was delusional if he didn't think JPM was gonna get by one way or the other. Only the dumbest people on earth could NOT see JPM pass the 19 or so guys behind Pruett and that he was coming on. He had the car, he knew the track and he had the rhythm. Scott Pruett was NOT going to win that race pure and simple, and while JPM shouldn't have punted him the way he did, it still doesn't change the outcome of JPM winning that race.

I think what has Pruett so pissed was that his chance for a good finish was screwed by his spinout and falling down as everyone went by him. Oh well, that's racing and while I don't disagree in him being mad, give the guy his due, JPM was the MAN today.....

[dont_be_jack]

It's all fine that Montoya maybe screwed up, but you can't say that Pruett was mad that he didn't get a good finish. 5th is damn good.

[wedge]

It's easy to sympathize with Pruett because the biggest sin in racing is to take out your team-mate.

JPM easily had the best car out there, he could brake later and deeper into the corners than anyone else.

To be fair to JPM, Pruett must've been naive to leave the door wide open and think that a hard racer like JPM would not go for the pass.

[Ant]

To all you Montoya haters, you guys need to get over it. This was by far one of the most exciting races in any form of motorsport that I have seen in a very long time and shows the true talent of Juan Pablo Montoya. Yes, he has a lot to learn on the ovals, but he will learn it, and he will win.

The accident that everyone is talking about from Mexico happens all the time in Nascar and is just part of the racing action. Montoya passed multiple cars all day, and everyone has to talk about the one car that he had contact with? Theoretically, Juan could have pushed more of them out of the way if this was the case. But he didn’t. He passed everyone else cleanly and fairly.

Why is everyone pointing the fingers at Juan? Why is no one questioning Scott Pruett’s driving?? Montoya had the inside line already, and Pruett appeared to close the door on his team mate, leaving Montoya with nowhere to go, so if anything Pruett should be the one who should be blamed for the incident. He knew how Montoya had threaded his way from 19th up to 2nd so it should have been obvious to him that Juan had a faster car. He saw that Juan was there, (or should have seen him) so he should have remembered the team orders and practiced a bit of defensive driving instead and then maybe they could have finished 1-2.

But in my eyes, it was a racing accident. Sure, I can understand that Scott was upset, (wouldn’t anyone be?!) but Pruett ended up 5th in the end, which is only a couple of places from where he would have finished anyway. If anything, I believe like Mark In Oshawa, that Scott was more frustrated with himself than the actual incident.

Montoya would have won anyway.

Don’t listen to the haters Juan, you have thousands of fans out here who recognize your talent and love you for the true “racer” that you are that is sadly missing in so many other drivers!!

You proved yesterday that you are a true “racer” and are here to stay.

Welcome to Nascar!

[Lee Roy]

Don't forget that just before JPM punted Pruett, JPM locked up the brakes to try to avoid the incident. That's enough for me to believe that while the move was overly aggressive, it was not done with the intention of punting Pruett.

GO JPM!!! Looking forward to you taking on the big boys at the Glen and Infeneon!!!!!

[dont_be_jack]

Don't forget that just before JPM punted Pruett, JPM locked up the brakes to try to avoid the incident. That's enough for me to believe that while the move was overly aggressive, it was not done with the intention of punting Pruett.

GO JPM!!! Looking forward to you taking on the big boys at the Glen and Infeneon!!!!!

That will be amazing once those races happen. He's going to stun a lot of people with his driving there.

[harvick#1]

not everyone here is a Montoya hater, I like the guy, but he made a really stupid move that cost Chip a 1-2 finish. Pruett had the turn but Montoya overshot it. it was bad judgement, somthing hes gonna have to learn with the cars.

[Mark in Oshawa]

He is learning fast, but of course, Mexico is a track that would suit him. Watching him at Bristol in the COT tests on Speed says to me that his learning curve on ovals is steep, but if anyone can do it, Juan can. I am enjoying watching his progress for sure.

[HoustonCartFan]

Pruett left that door so wide open (ie overshot the corner) that it almost looked like he was letting him by. That was entirely Pruett's fault. And then to dive back down into the apex to cover his mistake.... That is what caused the contact.

If Pruett should look at himself in the mirror before giving the thumbs down to JPM.

I wish JPM were still in F1 because that is where he belongs, but it was nice to see a victory. (even if it was just a Busch race)

[BenRoethig]

Pruett left that door so wide open (ie overshot the corner) that it almost looked like he was letting him by. That was entirely Pruett's fault. And then to dive back down into the apex to cover his mistake.... That is what caused the contact.

If Pruett should look at himself in the mirror before giving the thumbs down to JPM.

I wish JPM were still in F1 because that is where he belongs, but it was nice to see a victory. (even if it was just a Busch race)

Juan is a racer, not just a driver. F1 is about engineering, celebrity, and money these days, the racing component has long since been greatly diminished. JPM became very disillusioned with the series the last couple of years.

[jidoka]

That was entirely Pruett's fault. And then to dive back down into the apex to cover his mistake.... That is what caused the contact.

If Pruett should look at himself in the mirror before giving the thumbs down to JPM.


Nail on the head

[race aficionado]

I liked this read:
http://dwb.sacbee.com/24hour/sports/story/3568705p-12810610c.html


NASCAR's Montoya fearless to the end
By JENNA FRYER -- AP Auto Racing Writer

:s mokin:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Pruett left that door so wide open (ie overshot the corner) that it almost looked like he was letting him by. That was entirely Pruett's fault. And then to dive back down into the apex to cover his mistake.... That is what caused the contact.

If Pruett should look at himself in the mirror before giving the thumbs down to JPM.

I wish JPM were still in F1 because that is where he belongs, but it was nice to see a victory. (even if it was just a Busch race)



Not so fast.....for most General Competition Rules in most series have defined who is responsible in overtaking situations. The most common rule is that for the car overtaking to have the right to the corner, they must be able to put the nose of their car up to half way up the car being passed, that is in this case, was the nose past the numbers on the door? Watch the video. JPM might have put the nose to the quarter panel when the car of Pruett turns in. What is more, he was taking a conventional line through the corner, in that he was turning in and heading to the apex.

If you follow the strict letter of the law, JPM should be penalized, but as I said above, NASCAR doesn't follow such defined rules, they judge every situation based on criteria that are often not defined. Also factor in JPM was going to get by sooner or later, and really, it would be as big a crime to take the win away from him. Add in that NASCAR and their drive for diversity program just got a boost by JPM winning this race, and short of a street mugging, there wasn't a hope in hell of JPM being punished.

Personally, I think Pruett should just take his lumps. Ya it sucks and he got screwed, but the list of people who have been screwed by NASCAR is pretty long, and he should also have had a brain knowing that JPM passed everything including the Taco stand on his way through the field, so what made Scott think he had enough for JPM. The guy was flying and there just was no way anyone was going to beat him that day.

[R. Mears]

not everyone here is a Montoya hater, I like the guy, but he made a really stupid move that cost Chip a 1-2 finish. Pruett had the turn but Montoya overshot it. it was bad judgement, somthing hes gonna have to learn with the cars.
But if it was Earnhart Sr everything would be ok.

Montoya may be marked by a few drivers now. The vets don't like rooks showing them up. So I think Montoya has his coming.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Earhnardt raced in a different era. He wasn't the only guy knocking people out of the way for wins-everyone did. NASCAR ran on primarily short tracks where contact was and is to be expected. A totally different animal from 200mph 1.5 and 2 mile ovals of today.

[jslone]

Bottom line is the JPM wanted the win more then Pruett.Not taking anything away from Scott,but thats the truth.

[tstran17_88]

Montoya may be marked by a few drivers now.Naaaah! He punted a driver that only competes on the road courses, and it was in the Busch series. If that would have been a Cup race and the puntee was Joonyer....you bet heads would roll! :laugh: (Heck, Nascar might have parked him for rough driving).

[Alexamateo]

Naaaah! He punted a driver that only competes on the road courses, and it was in the Busch series. If that would have been a Cup race and the puntee was Joonyer....you bet heads would roll! :laugh: (Heck, Nascar might have parked him for rough driving).

It would have been like RIcky Rudd at Sonoma in 1991, coming around expecting to get the Checkered Flag and getting shown the Black instead! :eek: :p :

[XR8]

Mark! As a racer all my life I still do not understand this It was my corner" rubish. It is simple.When a guy gets substantly up inside you and has made a dive and is braking the maximum how in the hell can he stop any quicker when you just decide to turn in on him(or her).If you want to survive you must give way and the strike backi if you think you are quicker.Although I have not seen this incident Pruet is the dumb one as he was crashed out and all he had to do to finish bsecond or even first was to make racing room and not be a dumb ass and turn in on someone

[race aficionado]

Man!
As a blatant JPM fan I'm like a kid in a candy store.
Every forum or news site that you go to is full of JPM/NASCAR/F1 stories.

It's a treat.

What a buzz . . . . and all of this is great for NASCAR, and for Juan and his fans.
:)

:s mokin:

[harvick#1]

Mark! As a racer all my life I still do not understand this It was my corner" rubish. It is simple.When a guy gets substantly up inside you and has made a dive and is braking the maximum how in the hell can he stop any quicker when you just decide to turn in on him(or her).If you want to survive you must give way and the strike backi if you think you are quicker.Although I have not seen this incident Pruet is the dumb one as he was crashed out and all he had to do to finish bsecond or even first was to make racing room and not be a dumb ass and turn in on someone

I'm sorry, but I'm not trying to cause more trouble, but after watching the incident time and time again, Montoya was not close enough, Montoya went low but was still one car length behind, Pruett took the corner like that to get through the next turns easier. (if you saw Hamlin in the final laps, he ran that same line Pruett ran) Pruett had the line, and Montoya messed up,

but its over now, Montoya won, Pruett got 5th. its time now for Las Vegas and the next chapter. cause unlike alot of the other series. you don't have 3 weeks before each race to talk about the last one ;)

[DonnieDarco]

Yes Harvick, but when you watch JPM's onboard footage, its clear Pruett was wide of the turn, by quite a way. JPM saw his chance, went for it, Pruett tried to slam the door too late.

Pruett knew JPM was right behind him, it was up to him not to take the turn wide.

If he had seen JPM, you'd think that he would have realised he couldn't slam the door, and so had to let him by with the aim of re-passing him again before the race was over. So therefore, its possible Pruett didn't see him, and you have to wonder why that was :D He knew he was right up his ass :D

I honestly think that JPm went for it because he left the turn wide open, and because of the insane amount of cautions they'd been having.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Mark! As a racer all my life I still do not understand this It was my corner" rubish. It is simple.When a guy gets substantly up inside you and has made a dive and is braking the maximum how in the hell can he stop any quicker when you just decide to turn in on him(or her).If you want to survive you must give way and the strike backi if you think you are quicker.Although I have not seen this incident Pruet is the dumb one as he was crashed out and all he had to do to finish bsecond or even first was to make racing room and not be a dumb ass and turn in on someone

First off, if you didn't see the incident, then why are you arguing?

To understand this, you have to watch the replay. Where does Montoya make contact with Pruett? He taps Scott's right rear quarterpanel BEHIND the rear wheel. He spins Scott out as a result.

Why does this matter? In Road racing (NASCAR rules are not codified in the same manner, they make judgements on a case by case basis often), under FIA sanctioning bodies, whether it be the RAC in Britain, SCCA in the US, CASC in Canada or wherever have rules that spell out what is a pass. Who has the right to the corner is part of these rules. Rough driving penalties have to have some written down definitions and the definition of how and who has the responsiblity for cars entering a corner are spelled out. These rules are often called the "General Competition Rules". No matter where you are, the car who has the "Right" to the corner is the one gets to the Apex first. If Montoya was up along side of Pruett's passenger door and Pruett hit him off the track, then Pruett would have been in the wrong. Montoya though was NOT up at Pruett's door, as the damage to his car and Pruett's car proved. Montoya tried to squirt down the inside but he did NOT out brake Pruett enough to gain possession of the corner.

Under the GCR's of SCCA, Champ Car, IRL, RAC or wherever, Montoya would have been in the wrong. So why did he keep the win?

First off, NASCAR doesn't use the GCR's of any other body, and what is more, their rule book is highly controlled, so I cannot say what they have written down for what is a legal pass. Second of all, NASCAR reserves the right to change their rules at any time, as rough driving is often ignored based on the circumstance and who is doing it. Third, while the corner was Pruett's on paper, the fact remains he has to be a village idiot to think Montoya wasn't going to get by him with fresher tires with 8 laps left. I think NASCAR took THAT into account, and decided that Montoya may have been a little over the line in his pass, the fact remains Pruett should have been a little more careful and taken the inside to force Montoya go around the outside. Pruett was using the track as if he hadn't a care in the world, and in NASCAR, that is a dangerous thing to do with laps running down and a guy charging up your back.

NASCAR went for the PR value of JPM having a win, and lets face it, would you want to be a NASCAR official leaving the track without an Armed guard that day? JPM's win for the Mexicans was almost as good as a Mexican driver winning, and I don't think for a second there were too many in the stands thinking Pruett got jobbed.

What the rules say in many series has little to do with the outcome if the officials refuse to enforce them. In NASCAR's case, we have no way of knowing what their decision making process was.

If it happened on a regional weekend at Mosport with the two guys going into Moss Corner, Montoya would be the guy talking to the Stewards, but it wouldn't give Pruett his win back now would it?

[jslone]

Until he wins in Cup,I dont want to hear about every week gonna be a break out week for JPM.

[XR8]

Hey Mark! So who's argueing? And who was the driver who finished up facing the wrong way!Some times to finish first you have to finish!

[race aficionado]

Until he wins in Cup,I dont want to hear about every week gonna be a break out week for JPM.

gotta live with it jslone.

It's all part of the hype - added to the excitement of all us JPM fans.

all this over hype in some cases even goes against Juan because some people get upset about the "hype" and start disliking the guy and even rooting against him.

it's goes with Juan's territory and us Juan fans just go with the flow.

Go Juan!!!!! :p

:s mokin:

[harvick#1]

that sounds alot like Danica :laugh: what a bust she was :p :

[R. Mears]

that sounds alot like Danica :laugh: what a bust she was :p :
Danica is anything but a bust in IRL. She's doing quite well. With no wins so far that doesn't make one a bust. Remember Dick Trickle? :D

[jslone]

Danica needs a bust,and some meat too,still very hot though,in a tom boyish way.

[Lee Roy]

Danica is anything but a bust in IRL. She's doing quite well. With no wins so far that doesn't make one a bust. Remember Dick Trickle? :D

Dick Trickle probably has won more races than all of the rest of the people he competed against in NASCAR put together.

[harvick#1]

Danica is anything but a bust in IRL. She's doing quite well. With no wins so far that doesn't make one a bust. Remember Dick Trickle? :D

:rolleyes: when the media is right on you the whole race, you better be winning races. I've gotten so sick of the IRL showing coverage of Danica running 10th in a field of 14-15 when the leaders are having one heck of a race

[jslone]

If she had not been a woman the press would not have this kind of field day,the driver would be just another talent.

[ShiftingGears]

:rolleyes: when the media is right on you the whole race, you better be winning races.

Thats a bit of an unfair view in my opinion, as you seem to be implying that Danica is to blame. It isn't her fault that the media focus on her and hype her up because shes a woman, its the medias fault.

[R. Mears]

Dick Trickle probably has won more races than all of the rest of the people he competed against in NASCAR put together.
How many cup races has he won?
Last I heard several years ago he had the record for most consecutive races without a victory?

[Lee Roy]

How many cup races has he won?
Last I heard several years ago he had the record for most consecutive races without a victory?

Apparently, you don't know very much about racing if you don't know about Dick Trickle's career.

[R. Mears]

Apparently, you don't know very much about racing if you don't know about Dick Trickle's career.
Apparently you don't know how many cup races Dick has won/hasn't won Mr. Know it all. :rolleyes:

[Erki]

Apparently you don't know that there's a lot more racing other than Cup as well. :)

[Lee Roy]

Apparently you don't know that there's a lot more racing other than Cup as well. :)

He doesn't.

[R. Mears]

Apparently you don't know that there's a lot more racing other than Cup as well. :)



He doesn't.

Apparently I'm dealing with some incompetence.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Comparing Dick Trickle's career to Danica Patrick's is laughable.

When Danica has HUNDREDS of short track wins we can talk.

I have as many wins as Danica and Dick in the IRL and Cup, I also don't have as many wins as Michael Schumacher in F1, I guess that's a reasonable comparison as well...

[Hoss Ghoul]

Typo in my first response, so I deleted it.

When Danica has HUNDREDS of wins on short tracks across the country we can compare her career to Dick Trickle's...

[R. Mears]

Typo in my first response, so I deleted it.

When Danica has HUNDREDS of wins on short tracks across the country we can compare her career to Dick Trickle's...
When Dick Trickle has led many laps during the Indy 500 maybe then we can compare his carrer to Danica's.

You see this works both ways.

Evidently there is a severe lack of comprehension here. Earlier it was mentioned that Danica was a bust cause she hasn't won a IRL race.
Then I mentioned since Dick Trickle hasn't won a cup race is he a bust too?
The bottom line is one is not a bust just because of a lack of wins at certain types of racing. Especially early into ones professional career.

But like I said this must be too complicated for some to comprehend. Oh well......

[Hoss Ghoul]

When Dick Trickle has led many laps during the Indy 500 maybe then we can compare his carrer to Danica's.

You see this works both ways.

Evidently there is a severe lack of comprehension here. Earlier it was mentioned that Danica was a bust cause she hasn't won a IRL race.
Then I mentioned since Dick Trickle hasn't won a cup race is he a bust too?
The bottom line is one is not a bust just because of a lack of wins at certain types of racing. Especially early into ones professional career.

But like I said this must be too complicated for some to comprehend. Oh well......

You did a horrible job of making your point earlier, that's all.

I'm not one to judge Danica harshly, so I understand your defense...but, a few laps led at Indy does not a career make. Comparing a 25 year old who'd done next to nothing to a short track legend is a mistake at best.

You'd have been better of saying, she's young, etc, etc, rather than making an assinine comparison to one of the all time great short track racers. That only makes you look foolish and diminishes any point you might have had.

[Lee Roy]

. . . rather than making an assinine comparison to one of the all time great short track racers. That only makes you look foolish and diminishes any point you might have had.


Yep.

[jslone]

why the hell are we comapring Dick Trickle and Danica Patrick?WHats the use?

[race aficionado]

110 laps to go in Atlanta and my man Juan is now in the top five.

Too early, I know . . . .

but there he is . . . . and climbing!!!! :D

[race aficionado]

4th . . .
79 to go.

looking good . . . . Real good!!!!


:D :s mokin:


3rd . . . 65 to go

[race aficionado]

5th place at the checkered flag.

Not bad Juan Pablo, not bad at all. :D

this "rookie" is doing good.

:s mokin:

[Alexamateo]

Well, Race, Juan finished fifth for his first top 5. I would equate it to your first podium in F1, so all in all a great weekend for tu paisano! :up:

[race aficionado]

Well, Race, Juan finished fifth for his first top 5. I would equate it to your first podium in F1, so all in all a great weekend for tu paisano! :up:

Very cool indeed Alexmateo and best of all, after watching the first F1 race in Australia, I am now getting to realize how exciting Nascar actually is . . . of course it helps when your fave racer is doing good :p

that was a great ending fighting for 5th!

race
:s mokin:

edit* as a side note. Juan was VERY happy yesterday with his 8th place @ Bush but not a happy camper with today's fifth. He wanted more, he's getting hungry and pissed off and that for his fans is a good thing.

[harvick#1]

good race by Montoya, he could had a challange if he didn't scrub the wall off two.

now its time for some fun with Bristol :D

but Rookies run well at Atlanta, Ganassi cars were good along with Stremme and Sorenson.

[Lee Roy]

Great run by Juan.

[wedge]

Great job from JPM!

BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY!!!

Found this interesting press release:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=246110&FS=NASCAR-CUP

I love this quote:


"I think this (Atlanta) was a good weekend. I think the next ones are going to be pretty hard. We've got Bristol, that's going to be a nightmare. Martinsville will probably be another tough one. Darlington, let's not even talk about that one!"

Also mentions how JPM is adapting his driving style for stock cars ie. driving a loose race car and using the high groove a la Dale Jnr:


It's really hard, one of the hardest things I've found in the Ganassi cars, and I haven't driven anybody else's, is to get back on the gas. When I run the bottom I think I use a little more wheel. When you've got a lot of wheel and get on the gas it gets really loose, so when you run the top you've got a little less wheel. It's probably that, I don't know.

[e2mtt]

...
Also mentions how JPM is adapting his driving style for stock cars ie. driving a loose race car and using the high groove a la Dale Jnr:

Who it reminds me of more is Carl Edwards of 2 & 3 years ago, when he was nearly untouchable running the high line in the strong Roush intermediate-length-track cars. However, Carl can't drive a road course or superspeedway worth crud. JPM doesn't have that problem, and WILL be a superstar in NASCAR.

[Garry Walker]

he's getting hungry

ahh... That explains why KFC, McDonalds and Burger King have started ordering tons of more supplies than usually.

[muggle not]

When is a NASCAR rule not a NASCAR rule? When NASCAR officials decide to ignore it. Juan Pablo Montoya got a controversial call from NASCAR last week and was allowed to run laps at Darlington Raceway during a Goodyear tire test, even though Montoya wasn't on the approved list of four drivers for the test.

Rival teams complained about the Montoya exception, which Goodyear said that NASCAR executives approved.

Montoya has never raced at Darlington. But then fellow rookies David Ragan, David Reutimann, Paul Menard, and A. J. Allmendinger haven't either.

Teams are limted to NASCAR's seven official annual tests at tour tracks and are not allowed independent tests at those tracks.

[Erki]

OT :mad: : muggles, I like your signature. :) :up:

[wedge]

Who it reminds me of more is Carl Edwards of 2 & 3 years ago, when he was nearly untouchable running the high line in the strong Roush intermediate-length-track cars. However, Carl can't drive a road course or superspeedway worth crud. JPM doesn't have that problem, and WILL be a superstar in NASCAR.

In F1 and CART, JPM had a loose car, turned in early and hugged the apex with his car control (a very similar driving style to Michael Schumacher and Nigel Mansell). To some extent he could do the same on the ovals in CART because of the in-car chassis adjustments.

The dynamics of a stock car and open wheeler are obviously different.

I think JPM is learning that you can't run low with a loose stock car on the intermediate tracks. You see it week in week out, guys losing the rear end at the middle and coming off the turns.

I would also like to say that I'm really enjoying JPM learning and improving in NASCAR. :up:

[harvick#1]

When is a NASCAR rule not a NASCAR rule? When NASCAR officials decide to ignore it. Juan Pablo Montoya got a controversial call from NASCAR last week and was allowed to run laps at Darlington Raceway during a Goodyear tire test, even though Montoya wasn't on the approved list of four drivers for the test.

Rival teams complained about the Montoya exception, which Goodyear said that NASCAR executives approved.


I thought it was Goodyear that approved the decision, since it was not an official Test to all teams, montoya took some laps in the 41.

but yeah I would be complaining too to know that other drivers that werent on the list came to the test to drive. but Goodyear should just let then 1 car from every team to come to the test and let 1 driver from each team test.

[jeffmr2]

Great weekend for montoya.
When he was interviewed after the race i thought he said he was pissed off over something or did i hear incorrectly? I'm thinking back to jr saying **** and getting that big points deduction.

[savage86]

Yeah but half of the people watching prob cant understand half of what monty says anyway.

[muggle not]

I thought it was Goodyear that approved the decision, since it was not an official Test to all teams, montoya took some laps in the 41.

but yeah I would be complaining too to know that other drivers that werent on the list came to the test to drive. but Goodyear should just let then 1 car from every team to come to the test and let 1 driver from each team test.

Rival teams complained about the Montoya exception, which Goodyear said that NASCAR executives approved.

[muggle not]

More....................

As if the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co. needed any more headaches after 39 spins and accidents last week at Las Vegas, the company got even more criticism this week when Juan Pablo Montoya was allowed to do a tire test at the Darlington Raceway.

Goodyear routinely conducts tire tests. It randomly invites drivers, but Montoya was allowed to drive although he wasn’t on Goodyear’s list. The test at Darlington was important because that race will feature the new Car of Tomorrow. Goodyear invited #24-Jeff Gordon, #22-Dave Blaney, #41-Reed Sorenson and #16-Greg Biffle, but Montoya showed up and was allowed to drive Sorenson’s car.

Goodyear said Montoya had NASCAR’s blessing. NASCAR vice president Jim Hunter said NASCAR allowed Montoya, a rookie, to drive because he’s never been at Darlington. Montoya’s appearance at Darlington may prove to be a one-time exception. NASCAR said invited drivers are the only people who will be allowed to test in the future.

[R. Mears]

Will Juan have a Tony Stewart type rookie year? Yes he was good at open wheel and so far seems to be catching on quickly in NASCAR. Yes he is popular.
But I didn't care for Juan in open wheel and don't care much for him now. JMO

[harvick#1]

No, I think short tracks will bite him. I think now, he may, and I mean may win a oval this year.

[Subaru WRX]

I want Montoya back to F1, he is missing grand prix too much, shame if he stayed there after the departure of Schumy, maybe he could challenge Kimi and Fernando for the world title !!!

[wedge]

No, I think short tracks will bite him. I think now, he may, and I mean may win a oval this year.

I think the flat tracks like Martinsville and New Hampshire will be good for JPM. Apart from fender-bending, JPM looked comfortable at the Busch race at Memphis last year.

[Subaru WRX]

shame that Motors is missing the Busch series this year, in 2006 much people watched the NBS races just to follow JPM races, so the intrests for Nascar has grown outside the us !

[R. Mears]

No, I think short tracks will bite him. I think now, he may, and I mean may win a oval this year.

Probably, they bite many drivers. 43 cars on a 1/2-3/4 mile track is just too many IMO. Just too much bumping and grinding going on. Plus the vets like to "break in" the rookies properly.
Ye ole southern boys ain't gonna be shoun up by no columbian driver. LMAO

[jslone]

We shall see how he does at Bristol,Richmond.

[Subaru WRX]

JPM, will suffer a lot in tracks like Bristol and Richmond, he has no experience there at all, even in his CART experience, there are no short tracks !

[Lee Roy]

JPM, will suffer a lot in tracks like Bristol and Richmond, he has no experience there at all, even in his CART experience, there are no short tracks !


I wouldn't underestimate the guy. I saw him win during his rookie year in CART at Nazareth. He is amazing.

[Subaru WRX]

but Nazareth is a flat 1 mile oval, nothing to do bristol

[Lee Roy]

He had never run on flat 1 mile ovals either. He embarassed the CART veterans there that day.

[R. Mears]

Tony Stewart took NASCAR by the horns. Winning the CUP his 2nd year I believe?

[Hoss Ghoul]

Stewart's rookie year was remarkable at the time, but has since been duplicated-several times over(Earnhardt Jr., Kenseth, etc, etc).

He was a rookie of the year in 1999, champion in 2002.

[R. Mears]

Stewart's rookie year was remarkable at the time, but has since been duplicated-several times over(Earnhardt Jr., Kenseth, etc, etc).

He was a rookie of the year in 1999, champion in 2002.
And in 1997 Tony won the IRL championship.

[RaceFanStan]

Stewart's rookie year was remarkable at the time, but has since been duplicated-several times over(Earnhardt Jr., Kenseth, etc, etc).
He was a rookie of the year in 1999, champion in 2002.
You are correct on Stewart & somewhat correct on Kenseth but I have to call you on Dale Jr.

I'll give you Matt Kenseth was the 2000 ROTY & became the 2003 CUP Champion.

In Tony Stewart's rookie year, he won 3 races & ROTY.
In Matt Kenseth's rookie year, he won 1 race & ROTY.

In Dale Jr's rookie year, he won 2 races but lost ROTY to Kenseth
Dale Jr didn't win ROTY & hasn't won the Championship either.
So ... clearly Dale Jr isn't on the same page as Stewart & Kenseth. :laugh:

[wedge]

JPM, will suffer a lot in tracks like Bristol and Richmond, he has no experience there at all, even in his CART experience, there are no short tracks !

The 1mile tracks are classed as short tracks and you need a car that's loose enough to go round the flat corners and go pass traffic.

The exception to the rule being Bristol and Dover because of their fierce banking.

Bristol will be tough - no doubt about it. Richmond should be OK because its wide and has multiple grooves.

The only think JPM needs to worry about is his temper and his patience wearing thin so he doesn't start wrecks.

Another guy worth mentioning is Rusty Wallace - who I supported when I first followed NASCAR because he was so awesome on the short tracks (including Bristol) and road courses.

[Cole_Trickle]

Don't forget Denny Hamlin, 3rd in his rookie year.

[wedge]

JPM:

"I don't know. He [Tony Stewart] just got really close to me," said Montoya. "He got me loose. I went into him and he spun. I tried to pass him 3 or 4 times and he never gave me room..I don't think Chip [Ganassi, owner] hired me to run 20th every weekend..it's going to happen a lot of weekends, but our aim is to run up front."

Tony Stewart:

"He just got inside of us and wrecked us. It's just racing I guess ... maybe Ganassi doesn't pay him to run in the back but you might want to be just a little bit more patient just long enough to learn everything and how everything's done over here. He didn't make friends with me today so he won't get any help from me in the future."

:D :D :D

[e2mtt]

So far it seems like Montoya has a knack for driving away from incidents like that. You want to play rough with him, be prepared for him to get the better of it.