Why no points system change...???

[AndyRAC]

Seeing as F1 has changed their points system, why haven't the FiA done the same with WRC? Is it so the Championship is kept close (artificially like 2008).

[N.O.T]

i think a points system should aim at pushing drivers to win events and benefiting winners rather than sick kids in order to keep it close.

[pettersolberg29]

I sort of agree. Maybe not to the F1 level as there aren't enough divers in WRC, but how about 15-10-7-5-4-3-2-1?

[Francis44]

If they try to get drivers to go faster, then Im all for it.

[alleskids]

The FIA invited today by fax heads of teams involved in the World Rally Championship, to advise on a possible change in the grading system in the WRC, which may become effective since the opening race of the competition, the Rally of Sweden, which As we know, goes Thursday to the road. As has been done to Formula 1 the 'proposal' is a score until the tenth ranked, with the same system agreed for the World of F1 2010.

Officials from several teams now have their say until 17:00 tomorrow, Tuesday, and the final decision will be announced on Wednesday. How can you calculate, for the rule becomes effective, all competitors must unanimously agree on the amendment. The proposals relate to all competitions in the FIA World Rally: WRC, PWRC, SWRC and JWRC.

[Iskald]

i think a points system should aim at pushing drivers to win events and benefiting winners rather than sick kids in order to keep it close.

And in your humble opinion, N.O.T., who are the sick kids of WRC? Please enlighten us with your honest and insightful descriptions.

(Could be rather fun, this... :) )

[Sulland]

The FIA invited today by fax heads of teams involved in the World Rally Championship, to advise on a possible change in the grading system in the WRC, which may become effective since the opening race of the competition, the Rally of Sweden, which As we know, goes Thursday to the road. As has been done to Formula 1 the 'proposal' is a score until the tenth ranked, with the same system agreed for the World of F1 2010.

Officials from several teams now have their say until 17:00 tomorrow, Tuesday, and the final decision will be announced on Wednesday. How can you calculate, for the rule becomes effective, all competitors must unanimously agree on the amendment. The proposals relate to all competitions in the FIA World Rally: WRC, PWRC, SWRC and JWRC.

The aim of doing this is as correct in Rally as in F1, but timing FIA, timing !!!!

Is this Todt starting to act, and getting things done, or is it something they have thought about for 3 months, but forgot to send out .... ?

Lets see what they can do with the tech regs for 2011 - they need to get out soon as well !

[Rallyper]

Seeing as F1 has changed their points system, why haven't the FiA done the same with WRC? Is it so the Championship is kept close (artificially like 2008).

It definitely is not the same in rallying than in F1. When should you push like hell to gain a place? Being one minute after? And loose it all.

No the points system is good in F1 when two or more cars are fighting wheel to wheel. Not in rallying as much and I fear that Loeb will win more easily then....

Maybe that´s the way Todt want it to be....? :rolleyes:

[Ghostwalker]

Rallyper c'mon now you actually think that 2nd place should get as much points as first place?
Why would any drier risk anything for two points extra?

I would welcome a more rewarding point system.

[Mirek]

I agree, victory should be something special and properly rewarded. Thinking about it as bad because it makes Loeb's life easyier is biased. It's not a question of Loeb but a question of making victory worth fighting.

[Tomi]

]I agree, victory should be something special and properly rewarded. Thinking about it as bad because it makes Loeb's life easyier is biased. It's not a question of Loeb but a question of making victory worth fighting.

agree, if someone is good, he should be allowed to be, not to try to make other look better artificial way.

[MikeD]

]I agree, victory should be something special and properly rewarded. Thinking about it as bad because it makes Loeb's life easyier is biased. It's not a question of Loeb but a question of making victory worth fighting.

+1

[AndyRAC]

As far as I'm concerned 2008 was rather silly - Loeb won 10-11 Rallies, more than double the amount Mikko won, yet he only won the Title on the penultimate round. This clearly is ridiculous - and artificially keeps the series alive. There should be a 5 point difference between 1st and 2nd.

[Motorsportfun]

The FIA invited today by fax heads of teams involved in the World Rally Championship, to advise on a possible change in the grading system in the WRC, which may become effective since the opening race of the competition, the Rally of Sweden, which As we know, goes Thursday to the road. As has been done to Formula 1 the 'proposal' is a score until the tenth ranked, with the same system agreed for the World of F1 2010.

Officials from several teams now have their say until 17:00 tomorrow, Tuesday, and the final decision will be announced on Wednesday. How can you calculate, for the rule becomes effective, all competitors must unanimously agree on the amendment. The proposals relate to all competitions in the FIA World Rally: WRC, PWRC, SWRC and JWRC.

Lol, that looks like Eurovision! Televoting from all the parts... make a call or send an sms! :D

Wasnt so difficult to discuss it at the Motor Sport Council? :p

[Comal]

As far as I'm concerned 2008 was rather silly - Loeb won 10-11 Rallies, more than double the amount Mikko won, yet he only won the Title on the penultimate round. This clearly is ridiculous - and artificially keeps the series alive. There should be a 5 point difference between 1st and 2nd.
110% agree.

[Hartusvuori]

Any news or hearsays how this turned out? It's comfirmed tomorrow, but deadline was today, right?

[Langdale Forest]

i think a points system should aim at pushing drivers to win events and benefiting winners rather than sick kids in order to keep it close.

Everyone who wins a WRC event is worthy IMO. :uhoh:
Loeb wins almost all the events despite Hirvonen pushing hard.

Richard Burns and Carlos Sainz always used to go for points rather than wins but I think that no WRC driver does that now.

I think the top 16 drivers should score points. :)

[bennizw]

New point system after all:

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6843&desc=FIA%20introduces%20new%20WRC%20points%20alloc ation

[pettersolberg29]

That is huge, huge news for me. That means Loeb will run away with the title as he will win so many rounds. It also (sadly) puts an end to any lingering hope I had of Petter winning - there is no chance a driver who only wins 1 or 2 events could win the title in this format.

For better or worse - it's hard to say.

[bluuford]

New point system after all:

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6843&desc=FIA%20introduces%20new%20WRC%20points%20alloc ation

Yeah, bit funny system.
this system gives slightly bigger advantage to winner and much bigger advantage to drivers who finish below 6th place. If you look last year results then 9 points difference between Hirvonen and Loeb was halfly thanks to Loebs 7th place superally finish in Poland. So, dont count anyone down.
1. 10*2.5=25
2. 8*2.25=18
3. 6*2.5=15
4. 5*2.4=12
5. 4*2.5=10
6. 3*2.67=8
7. 2*3=6
8. 1*4=4

So, nearly no change at the top but big changes on the lower places.

[AndyRAC]

That is huge, huge news for me. That means Loeb will run away with the title as he will win so many rounds. It also (sadly) puts an end to any lingering hope I had of Petter winning - there is no chance a driver who only wins 1 or 2 events could win the title in this format.

For better or worse - it's hard to say.

What's wrong if Loeb runs away with the Title? He is the best after all, the last 2 years have seen him not get away despite winning most of the Rallies, (especially in 2008). Mikko can no longer settle for safe 2nd/3rd places, he's got to go for it!! The driver who gets the most wins deserves the Title.

[pettersolberg29]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it and I agree with you Andy. Just predicting what will happen, and the effect of this new system.

[bluuford]

New point system after all:

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6843&desc=FIA%20introduces%20new%20WRC%20points%20alloc ation

By the way, you can access to this news only via this link. It wont appear under news section..???

[sollitt]

Richard Burns and Carlos Sainz always used to go for points rather than wins but I think that no WRC driver does that now.



Are you sure? That Carlos sure clocked up a lot of wins for a bloke who always went only for points.

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=6843&desc=FIA+introduces+new+WRC+points+allocation

Yup - new points system!

Thank god they didn't change it to scoring points on each Day!

[Hartusvuori]

At first look it gives an image that Loeb would have an easier run for 7th title, but like said, it ain't that simple.

If Mikko will improve his attack so that he'll be winning where he should be (last year Norway, Portugal, GB at least should have been possible), so then this new points system won't give too much advantage for Loeb. You know, win some, loose some.

Also, if - and only if - Petter, JML and Dani could take victories this points system would turn out even more thrilling.

But it's all ifs - if Loeb will win all the rounds (which he won't) it doesn't matter how much the points difference is to runner-ups. Also - if you DNF, it's possibly minus 25 points and that makes a huge difference also. In the same sense, this new system will perhaps give too much points for those that continue under super rally rule.

[lcd]

The change In points system Is really great news...
Nice to see FIA took under consideration drivers and wrc fans feedback!

[Mixa]

Yeah maybe but then again its a bit like going back to gr.A era when drivers were awarded 20 points from a win and so on. I dont see it as a too good change. On those days,some of the fans were already unhappy because drivers didn´t wanted to attack in fear of losing too many important points for the championship and decided to save their cars and just driven to an end even when the gap was in 15 seconds, manufacturers given orders to secure the place and the upcoming points. So why it would change now?

I just afraid that all this reducing of costs including the new point system will freeze the competition during the rally. On events what runs from thursday to saturday it won´t have such a huge effect but on rallyes what runs on old format from thursday or friday to sunday it will surely do something and sunday will be even meaningless.

Its a good thing that the value of winning has been increased but by my mind it could been done even by giving 12 points to the winner example. If the champion is crowned earlier and he is the fastest guy its truly ok. Then again does WRC really need top10 to collect points? I would say no. Ok a good change to privateers but collecting points should be challenging in WRC. Not with the way that you have a WRC car but will be heavily outpaced... or even a gr.N or JWRC car on some events can be good enough.

[Ghostwalker]

At first look it gives an image that Loeb would have an easier run for 7th title, but like said, it ain't that simple.

If Mikko will improve his attack so that he'll be winning where he should be (last year Norway, Portugal, GB at least should have been possible), so then this new points system won't give too much advantage for Loeb. You know, win some, loose some.

Also, if - and only if - Petter, JML and Dani could take victories this points system would turn out even more thrilling.



The thing is that if Miko (or any other driver) will step up the pace to try and match Loeb, he will be more prone to make a mistake.

[Tomi]

The thing is that if Miko (or any other driver) will step up the pace to try and match Loeb, he will be more prone to make a mistake.

Offcourse but that makes Loeb do drive faster and feel pressure too, and prone to make mistakes.

[Lousada]

It's funny that third place is worth relatively more in the new system.
25/2.5=10
18/2.5=7.2
15/2.5=6
12/2.5=4.8
10/2.5=4

[bluuford]

The most interesting thing is that positions from spot nr 6 are rewarded very highly. So, getting many points with superally becomes big problem.

[serial jeff]

This scoring system is pretty bad IMO. I like how rewarding it is to win, but second place really gets shafted. It'd be much better even if 2nd got 19 instead of 18.

[jonas_mcrae]

This scoring system is pretty bad IMO. I like how rewarding it is to win, but second place really gets shafted. It'd be much better even if 2nd got 19 instead of 18.

yeah but it might be an incentive for Mikko to push during the second and third day not just match the pace to keep 2nd.

I dont like the fact that Slowson, Block, Villagra, Kimi will get that many points when they come back after super rally. I hope S2000 competitors are fast enough so those WRC's that come back after super rally dont have chances of getting so many points.

[Langdale Forest]

I can predict Mikko crashing alot more this year on tarmac events like Spain, because loosing 7 points to the winner if he gets second place is almost like loosing the championship.

[Audimadgeoff]

I think is REALLY good news! I don't really want Loeb to win, but if he does, then fair play to him! And with points going down to 10th we'll see more privateers and Production/ S2000 cars in the points - which has got to be good for them and their sponsors!

[Langdale Forest]

But if loeb retires and Hirvonen wins, Loeb will loose 25 point and possibly his championship lead in just one rally!

[Mirek]

It doesn't matter if You loose 25 from 200 or 10 from 80 (both 8 wins). What matters is that in new system You need less than 4 victories to get those lost points back and in previous system You need 5 victories (in case Your opponent is always second).

[Wim_Impreza]

Rautenbach should have 36 points instead of 9 last year.

I don't understand why the top 10 can score points now. In 2001 you could score points when you were in the top 6, now with very poor entry lists the driver can score points when he is in the top 10. Very strange.

[Audimadgeoff]

Rautenbach should have 36 points instead of 9 last year.

I don't understand why the top 10 can score points now. In 2001 you could score points when you were in the top 6, now with very poor entry lists the driver can score points when he is in the top 10. Very strange. and your point??? :confused:

To a sponsor points can often prove justification that your investment is paying off - and with less and less manufacturer rides out there, we need more sponsors willing to invest the kind of money required to do the WRC!

[Mirek]

Yes, I agree with You. Giving some points to more drivers doesn't really hurt anyone since the better ones are given more. It brings only good for sponsor relations.

[Wim_Impreza]

and your point??? :confused:

To a sponsor points can often prove justification that your investment is paying off - and with less and less manufacturer rides out there, we need more sponsors willing to invest the kind of money required to do the WRC!

When there were a lot of manufacturer teams, only the top 6 could score points. Now there are only 2 manufacturer teams and the top 10 can score points. When you had a 7th place in the past with very strong entry lists, you couldn't get a point and now even with a 10th place and very poor entry lists you could get a point.

[Josti]

Maybe some people forget, but WRC has always (since 1979) maintained top ten scoring positions, until the FIA decided to base it on the F1 point system from 1997 onwards.

While it kind of looks like an afterthought (I mean, only a few days before the actual championship starts!), I find this a much better point system than the 2003-2009 version. Also, people shouldn't look so much at the present, but rather at the future. This might be another step in the right direction to get more manufacturers in future WRC.

[Mirek]

When there were a lot of manufacturer teams, only the top 6 could score points. Now there are only 2 manufacturer teams and the top 10 can score points. When you had a 7th place in the past with very strong entry lists, you couldn't get a point and now even with a 10th place and very poor entry lists you could get a point.

And what is Your point? It used to be that way in the past but now we have 2010.

[DazzlaF1]

If the WRC used the new system last year

TOP 15

1. Sebastien Loeb ........ 229
2. Mikko Hirvonen ........ 220
3. Dani Sordo ........ 151
4. Jari-Matti Latvala ........ 104
5. Henning Solberg ........ 101
6. Matthew Wilson ........ 76
7. Petter Solberg ........ 71
8. Sebastien Ogier ........ 61
9. Federico Villagra ........ 44
10. Conrad Rautenbach ........ 26
=11. Mads Ostberg ........ 22
=11. Khalid Al-Qassimi ........ 22
13. Evgeny Novikov ........ 12
=14. Chris Atkinson ........ 10
=14. Matti Rantanen ........ 10

[JFL]

If the WRC used the new system last year

TOP 15

1. Sebastien Loeb ........ 229
2. Mikko Hirvonen ........ 220
3. Dani Sordo ........ 151
4. Jari-Matti Latvala ........ 104
5. Henning Solberg ........ 101
6. Matthew Wilson ........ 76
7. Petter Solberg ........ 71
8. Sebastien Ogier ........ 61
9. Federico Villagra ........ 44
10. Conrad Rautenbach ........ 26
=11. Mads Ostberg ........ 22
=11. Khalid Al-Qassimi ........ 22
13. Evgeny Novikov ........ 12
=14. Chris Atkinson ........ 10
=14. Matti Rantanen ........ 10


Not according to wrc.com
1. Loeb 93 (229)
2. Hirvonen 92 (220)
3. Sordo 64 (151)
4. Latvala 41 (104)
5. P Solberg 35 (86)
6. H Solberg 33 (86)
7. Wilson 28 (76)
8. Ogier 24 (61)
9. Villagra 16 (44)
10. Rautenbach 9 (36)

[BDunnell]

I'm glad to see points down to 10th again. It's as it should be. The same cannot be said of points down to 10th in F1.

[bluuford]

actually If I think back I can say that it is good thing to give point to top 10. It is much easier for privateers to bring to their sponsor the following information: "As a result of superb driving and hard work we earned 1 championship point" and it does not sound so well: "As a result of our hard work we reached to top 10 and missed out one point by just a few minutes."
It is clear that F1 type of system didn't suit to WRC. There are only 20 cars in F1 but there might be 120 cars in WRC.
Giving points to the lower positioned drivers might encourage them to fight between 11th, 10th, 9-th place as well.

And for the final remark. In Estonian championship. When you are running in national class the all the cars that reach to finish earn at least 1 point.

[Tomi]

And for the final remark. In Estonian championship. When you are running in national class the all the cars that reach to finish earn at least 1 point.

LOL :D

[Mirek]

The same is in Belgium for 2010 I think.

[Gard]

Not according to wrc.com
1. Loeb 93 (229)
2. Hirvonen 92 (220)
3. Sordo 64 (151)
4. Latvala 41 (104)
5. P Solberg 35 (86)
6. H Solberg 33 (86)
7. Wilson 28 (76)
8. Ogier 24 (61)
9. Villagra 16 (44)
10. Rautenbach 9 (36)

So it wouldn't make much difference. Mikko has promised to push harder anyway. Last year, Loeb more often than Mikko, seamed to be on the limits. I'm glad that I don't pay for the cars for JM, Ogier and Kimi

[DazzlaF1]

Not according to wrc.com
1. Loeb 93 (229)
2. Hirvonen 92 (220)
3. Sordo 64 (151)
4. Latvala 41 (104)
5. P Solberg 35 (86)
6. H Solberg 33 (86)
7. Wilson 28 (76)
8. Ogier 24 (61)
9. Villagra 16 (44)
10. Rautenbach 9 (36)
I counted all top 10 finishes, I probably just forgot that some of the top 10 finishers last year were ineligible for points

[Kaps]

Sorry for the OT, but didn't wanna start a new thread just for this.

Can someone tell me what are the rules for manufacturers' teams in 2010? (Stobart, Citroen Junior & Munchi's).

I believe they're called WRC Teams this season and that they're obliged to take at least 8 starts with at least 1 car to be eligible to score points for Manu' Championship.

Can anyone please confirm this, or correct me if I'm wrong?

Thanks!

[Roy]

Sorry for the OT, but didn't wanna start a new thread just for this.

Can someone tell me what are the rules for manufacturers' teams in 2010? (Stobart, Citroen Junior & Munchi's).

I believe they're called WRC Teams this season and that they're obliged to take at least 8 starts with at least 1 car to be eligible to score points for Manu' Championship.

Can anyone please confirm this, or correct me if I'm wrong?

Thanks!

BP Ford Abu Dhabi, Citroën Total World Rally Team and Citroën Junior Team are manufacturer teams, so the drivers can drive 09 spec cars.

Stobart M-Sport Ford Rally Team is a WRC team and do at least 8 rounds.
Munchi's WRT and e.g Monster WRT are no WRC teams. They planned 7 rounds so far.

[Kaps]

So, it's quite different from last season, again.

But this would mean that Munchi's, Monster etc. would not be able to score points towards championship this year?

[Roy]

So, it's quite different from last season, again.

But this would mean that Munchi's, Monster etc. would not be able to score points towards championship this year?

indeed

[Kaps]

Turns out that Munchi's Ford are eligible for manu' championship afterall...probably Monster WRT as well...

[MikeD]

Turns out that Munchi's Ford are eligible for manu' championship afterall...probably Monster WRT as well...

Muchi's yes, Monster not (they are registered as priority 2).

[Kaps]

Thanks Mike.

I hope this is final.